Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:July:02 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/7/2-6 [Uncategorized] UID:38396 Activity:nil
7/1     Has anybody used those giant vaccum bags for compressing clothes
        and linens? Do they stay compressed after say 6mos or do they
        leak and expand?
2005/7/2-6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/BayArea] UID:38397 Activity:high
7/1     Economy's good in Republican states:
        \_ Fuck God, fuck Texas, and fuck you.
           \_ How about your Buddy Jesus? Come on, you can't be mad at your
              good ole Buddy Jesus? His old man is just upset because some
              of the uppity kids at work won't listen to him. He'll get over
              it. Hey who's yer pal? Who's your friend? Your Buddy Jesus!
        \_ War profiteering is good business, too.
                \_ No to mention all those homeland security dollars going
                   to red states with nothing for terrorists to target.
        \_ Red states tend to have lower taxes and lower costs of living.
           I'd be better off working in Texas with a 10% pay cut than in
           \_ That's because California living costs have lost all touch with
              reality.  You could take a 10% pay cut and have a higher standard
              of living by moving to any other blue state as well (excluding
              New York City, but there you salary would go way up anyway.)
              \_ Not sure about that. Places like Massachusetts,
                 Maryland, Connecticut, and Hawaii are very expensive.
                 Pretty much anywhere with a big city that isn't in
                 The South. I was in Denver on business and was surprised
                 to see houses are costing $500K there, too, and they
                 make less $$$. You might get more for your money there, but
                 California seems like a bargain given all the other
                 advantages of living here.
                 \_ And what are all these advantages you speak of?
                    \_ Weather, people, geography, culture (museums,
                       shows, etc.), educational institutions, restaurants,
                       and so on. You can get almost anything you want here
                       locally. This is true in, say, NYC, but not in
                       most places. A place like Phoenix or Idaho is cheap,
                       but totally blows.
           \_ But then you'd have to hang out with all those damn Texans...
              \_ Who are *far* nicer on average than the people in the SF area.
                       \_ Ugh, I hate LA so much.  You couldn't pay me to
                          settle down here.  People and culture indeed. -- ilyas
                          \_ Seconded.  If I could take a job in a decent place
                             for salary X or in LA for salary 2X, I'd take the
                          \_ You are experiencing the idiocy that is
                             Westwood/Santa Monica. Lots of people went to
                             Berkeley and thus think the Bay Area is a
                             shithole, too, based on Berkeley, Oakland,
                             San Jose and limited experiences in SF.
                          \_ Third that.  I lived in LA and orange county.
                          \_ LACMA, The Huntington, The Guggenheim, The Getty,
                             MOCA, The Norton Simon...
                             Have you ever left campus?
                          \_ Have you been to the greater LA area?  It's full
                             of diversity nowadays, Little Taipei, Little
                             Saigon, Little Bombai, not to mention Japantown,
                             Koreatown, etc.  Also, there's quite a bit of
                             counter-culture as well.  Maybe not as much as
                             Berkeley, but it's not lacking.  LA's main prob.,
                             imo, is the lack of a real "city-climate." That's
                             something that SF & NY have in spades.  LA is
                             too "sprawling," with cultural pockets spread
                             between vast wastelands of suburbia.
                             \_ SF is a tiny city that feels big. LA is a massive
                                city that feels small. This is because LA has no
                                real center. I sometimes take out-of-town guests
                                around and they say 'Is that downtown?' when we
                                pass Glendale, Century City, Universal City, Westwood,
                                and so on. Each of those enclaves is a city unto
                                itself by the standards of most Americans.
                             \_ SF is a tiny city that feels big. LA is a
                                massive city that feels small. This is because
                                LA has no real center. I sometimes take
                                out-of-town guests around and they say 'Is
                                that downtown?' when we pass Glendale, Century
                                City, Universal City, Westwood, and so on.
                                Each of those enclaves is a city unto itself
                                by the standards of most Americans.
                                \_ agreed.  There's downtown. But there's not
                                   much there worth seeing. Nothing else is
                                   really centered around it, either.
                                   \_ Downtown has Chinatown and Little
                                      Tokyo. There's also Exposition Park
                                      and MOCA. The Jewelry District often
                                      appeals to women. The Biltmore is
                                      pretty historic and there are some good
                                      \_ Sure, but none of these is high on the
                                         list of things people want to see:
                                         For general interest, Monterey Park,
                                         San Gabriel, etc. >> Chinatown; Rodeo,
                                         Melrose >> Jewelry District; Getty,
                                         LACMA, Huntington >> MOCA.  I'm
                                         speaking in general terms, obviously,
                                         as all the places you mention have
                                         great qualities that make them worth
                                         visiting.  Just most of them get
                                         out-shone by other things elsewhere
                                         in the greater LA area, which is the
                                         general trend I was pointing out. cf.
                                         what's avail. near SF or NY downtown.
                          \_ Northern Californians like to rag on LA, but
                             LA is a lot closer to SF/NY than it is to, well,
                             just about every other city in the country.
                             Certainly by any cultural measure it's in the
                             top 5 even if you're being hard on it; it's
                             ahead of the Bay Area in theater and visual
                             arts.  -tom
                             \_ Given the huge density of actors, writers,
                                and almost every other Hollywood-related
                                profession in the Los Angeles area, it isn't
                                exactly a surprise that LA is ahead in theater.
                                The visual arts is likely because there are so
                                many more affordable places to rent gallery
                                \_ It's not a surprise, but it's a reality.
                                   It's cheap to rent gallery space in Des
                                   Moines but that hasn't made Iowa a
                                   cultural powerhouse.  -tom
                                \_ There may also be some synergy betw. acting
                                   and other creative arts.
                                   \_ Of course there is. Also, a lot goes
                                      into making a film other than acting.
                                      Set design, storyboard artists, and
                                      others have lots of artistic talent.
                                \_ The creative arts seems to be flourishing
                                   in LA much better than in the Bay Area,
                                   except for the acapella scene.  But I think
                                   the reason for that is that in LA, anyone
                                   with enough talent to do good acapella
                                   can actually work in the music industry and
                                   actually get paid.
                                   \_ Speaking as a huge fan of The Bobs,
                                      the rest of the "a capella scene" can
                                      bite me.  Most a capella groups are
                                      basically karaoke with better singers,
                                      and singers are a dime a dozen.
                                      \_ Out of curiousity, I wonder if you've
                                         come across my friends, Clockwork.
                                         they opened for the Bob's last F&S
                                         show (iirc).  Nearly all original
                                         charts, some original songs, and I
                                         think they're pretty damn tight.
                                         \_ Haven't heard them, no; I was
                                            out of town for the last Bobs
                                            show.  -tom
           \_ Ignoring CoL for the moment, wouldn't be you better off with that
              10% cut somewhere w/ higher taxes?  Then you'd drop into a lower
              tax bracket, pay (proportionally) less in taxes than you would
              in the low-tax region, and thus have lost less than 10%.
              \_ Unless you run into AMT territory because of the higher state
                 tax deduction, and end up getting screwed twice
              \_ Having lived in DC and LA, I would have to agree that
                 traffic in DC is indeed worse than LA.
          \_ Regardless of the posts above, LA traffic sucks. If you have to go
             through 405 or other parts of LA that you must go through, you'll
             be happy to move at 5MPH. Want to go to LACMA or Getty or whatever
             you think is cool? Try to get there first. You may have to leave
             2-3 hours in advance.
             \_ what about taking the rtd a.k.a. mta... or metro ???
                being a minority (asian), being in l.a. or the bay area is so
                much better than most places... i heard that in the south,
                minorities get ignored (as if the minority was non-human)
                in stores and shops..
              \_ Having lived in DC and LA, I would have to agree that
                 traffic in DC is indeed worse than LA.
             \_ Sure, LA traffic sucks. Got any other newsflashes? Traffic
              in every big city sucks. I think LA's freeway system is
              better than most. I shudder to think what many other large
              cities will be like when they reach 13 million people. LA is
              designed around the automobile unlike, say, DC.
              \_ Having lived in DC and LA, I would have to agree that
                 traffic in DC is indeed worse than LA.
              \_ this reminds me of a stat I heard once.  Some people complain
                 that LA is just one big network of freeways.  However, if
                 you calculate miles of freeway lanes per resident, LA ranks
                 45th in the nation or something.
                 \_ Cruisin' down the street(s) in my 6-fo'
                    Jackin' the bitches, slappin' the ho's
                    Went to the park to get the scoop
                    Knuckle-heads out there cold shootin' some hoo's
                    A car pulls up, who can it be?
                    A fresh elkomino rolly Kilo G
                    He rolls down his window and he started to say
                    It's all about makin' that GT A

                    Cuz the boyz in de hood are alwayz hard
                    You come talkin' that trash we'll bull your car
                    Knowin' nothin' in life but to be legit'
                    Don't quote me boy, cuz I ain't sayin' shit ...
2005/7/2-5 [Computer/SW, Computer/SW/Mail] UID:38398 Activity:nil
7/2     Bad software interface causes loss of more than $12 million: (
2005/7/2-5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:38399 Activity:high
7/2     "MSNBC Analyst Says Cooper Documents Reveal Karl Rove as Source In
        Plame Case" (
        \_ Do they still shoot traitors?
        \_ Do they still hang traitors?
           \_ Ahh, Newsweek.  Counting the minutes until this turns into
              another LGF-wank-fest.
        \_ There probably won't be any fallout from this.  The bar for
           impeachable offense was lowered for Clinton and raised for Bush.
           \_ fallout != impeachment.  Bush probably can't be impeached
              for this, for reasons why, see Regan.  That doesn't mean
              there won't be fallout.
                \_ What I meant is that it is silly to think that Bush &
                   Cheney didn't know about this/plan this.  There probably
                   won't be any fallout and it will be like Reagan if there
                   \_ If they indict Rove over the leak, he could serve
                      a prison sentence. A non-Rove WH would be some
                      serious fallout.
                      \_ Two words: Presidential pardon.  Rove isn't going
                         anywhere, even if something does come out of this which
                         I kinda doubt.
                         \_ Oh come ON.  Vush wouldn't use a presidential
                         \_ Oh come ON.  Bush wouldn't use a presidential
                            pardon on Rove in this case.  Haven't you
                            noticed?  Even since Nixon, When Republicans
                            do something stupid, and it's proven, they get
                            thrown to the dogs.
                            \_ And then come back 15 years later to run random
                               agencies and embasseys...
                               agencies and embassies...
                            \_ Reagan pardoned half a dozen of the Iran-Contra
                               crowd, as well as quote a few major donors
                               who had been convicted of violating campaign
                               finance laws.
        \_ Rove's lawyer is saying he didn't mention her name ... the notes
           aren't clear what exactly Rove said.
           \_ You could still get stuff like "His wife is an undercover CIA
              agent."  where anyone could then look up the marriage or mortgage
        \_ Rove is not the target of the Special Investigation
  (Washington Post)
        \_ Newswekk rundown of the story:
        \_ Comment here by jblack.
            \_ Go fuck yourself.
           \_ Found another easy target?  Got bored with emarkp and williamc?
              How predictable.  -John
           \_ Go fuck yourself.  And you can go fuck yourself as well, mr.
              selective censor guy. Censorship is always wrong, even when
              the individual you're censoring does not believe in freedom.
              \_ Ah, but you see, now jblack's comments are DIE FRUCHT
                 VERBOTTEN!  It's free advertising for a point of view!
                 Delete me next, motd censor-man!  Not enough people pay
                 attention to me. -- ilyas
        \_ go fuck yourself jblack.
        \_ Oh yes Lawrence O'Donnell of freak out 'liar' fame who has
           also stated he doesn't care if soldiers are demoralized
           by Kerry's Iraq negativity.
           by Kerry's Iraq negativity. -jblack
           \_ Go fuck yourself.
           \- if it turns out ROVE is culpable of some significant wrong
              [and i am deliberately not framing this in legal terms] i
              think it will be interesting to see who will defend this.
              you can agree on the facts yet have different opinions
              about some of the BILLARY scandals, but something like the
              MARC RICH pardon was just indefensible and somebody who
              tries to justify that should lose all credibility. it's
              possible a FUD strategy will work here ... as we saw with
              the SWIFTBOAT campaign, betting on STUPIDITY is close to a
              sure thing.
              \_ I have yet to see anyone disprove John Oneill's
                 accusations.  Kerry hasn't even signed 180 and its
                 been what 250+ days? -jblack
                 \_ where the fuck have you been? he signed this a month ago.
                    \_ It was never posted on The Free Republic, so jblack
                       never heard about it...
                 \- kerry was within shooting distance of the enemy.
                    bush avoided going to fight in a war he supported.
                    that's the relelvant issue. not how many stitches
                    did kerry get in vietnam. we're not comparing
                    mccain vs dole in terms of who made greater
                    sacrifices. if you want to compare whether clinton
                    of bush is a bigger coward, that is also reasonable.
                    \_ I don't really know what Kerry's war record is, and
                       I don't care.  However, saying that Kerry
                \_ Bush never signed his Form 180. And Kerry has signed
                   his, better late than never.
            \_ Really sad to see you defending traitors like that. I thought
               you loved your country more than your party. Guess I pegged
               you wrong on that.
2005/7/2-5 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38400 Activity:nil
7/2     Why was Bush's WMD intel bad? Blame France!
        \_ Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys! Freedom Fries! Old Europe! Yarrrgh!
        \_ The buck stops... uh... only if you fill it with enough lead to
           put down a whole family of elephants.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:July:02 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>