Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:June:30 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2005/6/30 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:38367 Activity:moderate
6/30    Whenever I watch celebrity news I hear so and so is guilty in the
        court and have to perform community service. They don't get fined or
        go to jail, but have to perform community service. What's so bad
        about serving your community? I mean, isn't it noble to serve food
        for the homeless, paint houses for the poor, and clean up highways
        trash? Imagine the United States drafting men between 18-25 to
        perform mandatory community service for just one year. We'd
        have a huge [free] labor force to clean up grafitti, recycle
        cans, and other wonderful things that make our community more
        beautiful. In our ever increasingly busy digital lives, we rarely
        have time to even help ourselves, let alone help others out. We
        are increasingly isolated from one another, and have very little
        understanding on this "sense of community" that our grandparents
        talked about. Perhaps incentives and rewards should be given to
        those that help our community, to make everyone's lives better.
        Community service is an honor performed by those who honor community
        and brotherhood. It is sad and ironic that criminals have the honor
        to serve our community. Just my two cents for today.   -2 cents guy
        \_ For reasons I won't elaborate on, I had to spend some time cleaning
           up trash with the other "community service" people in People's
           Park at one point.  There is actually a pretty huge pool of
           people who have "community service" hours to do at any given time.
           Several of the people there had 1000 hours of service they had to
           do.  I was, as far as I could tell, the only person there who was
           actually working.  Mostly people would just show up and loaf around
           all day, then get double that number of hours signed off for by
           the dude who runs the park.  If the dude who runs any given park
           doesn't want to be corrupt, people just migrate somewhere where
           it *is* corrupt.  Of all those community service hours that get
           handed out by judges, very little real service gets done (although
           I busted ass cleaning up the park).
        \_ This is a fairly old idea.  This was called a 'subbotnik' in
           USSR (only this was done on Saturdays, hence the name 'subbota =
           saturday'.)  You should ask someone who participated in a subbotnik
           what they think of it. -- ilyas
           \_ why didn't you participate in a subbotnik?
              \_ I was too young. -- ilyas
           \_ Switzerland requires you to serve the military or perform
              substitute service (community service). Maybe John can tell
              you all about it.
           \_ One might obtain a somewhat less grim view of such matters by
              looking at the Works Projects Administration established in the
              US during the great depression.  I believe modern Germany has a
              similar program where one may choose between military or
              `alternative' civilian service, but don't know much about it.
              Also, why constrain this sort of thing to men only?  That seems
              backwards and silly.  That said, if you're going to encourage
              community service, I don't think picking up trash and cleaning
              up graffiti are particularly inspiring tasks or the most useful
              application of that sort of workforce.  What made the WPA cool
              was that it took on really ambitious projects.  Even if you take
              all this into account, I don't know how much it's going to do
              for instilling a sense of community in people.  I know there's a
              geographic component to this: Many of my grandparents'
              present-day friends are people they grew up with on the same
              *block* in Brooklyn.  They joined the service together.  After
              the war they settled on Long Island together.  In their later
              years, part of the group moved to the same communities in
              Florida.  Of your friends today, how many lived on the same
              street you did when you were young?  Do you still keep in touch
              with your friends from high school?  Personally, I think my
              sense of community is as strong as my grandparents, just
              oriented along different axes (e.g. cultural vs. geographic).
              -dans
              \_ I think the CCC also did something similar in the same time
                 frame.
        \_ Why community service? Because we supposively live in a classless
           society. Billioniares pay the same amount for a moving violation
           as the average Joe. Community service forces the culprit to give
           up time, which means the rich don't get off easy and the poor
           aren't forced to pay fines. Both beat jail which puts the burden
           on society. All of this is separate from enforcing a draft
           (military or community works) or volunteerism. Much of the
           reasons behind why not lay with the relationship of citizens and
           government and society in general. And those discussions get ugly.
           \_ Where is the claim made that we live in a classless society?
              There have never been, and perhaps never will be a classless
              society. -- ilyas
2005/6/30-7/1 [Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:38368 Activity:high
6/30    Help. Many people in my company suspect this HUGE figure is gay (Steve
        Jobs), but we don't know for sure. He's one of the sweetest guys around
        but lately he's been ignoring me. In fact I sense a strong hostility
        from him, especially at recent meetings where he
        dismisses all of my ideas, openly. I suspect it might
        have something to do with the Propaganda Remix Posters I use as
        my screen saver (http://homepage.mac.com/leperous/PhotoAlbum1.html
        To be more specific, there are quite a few gay related posters,
        such as the ones below:
        http://homepage.mac.com/leperous/.Pictures/gays2.jpg
        http://homepage.mac.com/leperous/.Pictures/gays5b.jpg
        http://homepage.mac.com/leperous/.Pictures/gays6.jpg
        I have nothing against gay people, I just use these posters because
        they're sarcastic and anyone with any intelligence would probably
        find them funny. However, I suspect these posters may have something
        to do with his recent change of demeaners and hostility towards
        no one but me, but I don't know for sure what the root of the
        problem is. What's the best way to find out, and to correct this
        misunderstanding? ok thx.
        \_ Maybe he's a Republican.  There are gay Republicans.
        \_ change this one more time and motd dies.
        \_ it's "demeanor". maybe he thinks _you're_ gay.
        \_ You know, if you don't want trouble at work, you shouldn't use
           provacative screen savers.  Both sensitive homosexuals and
           sensitive religious people could find these offensive.  Why are
           you surprised that someone got offended?
           \_ No gay man would be offended.  They're funny as hell.
              Overly-sensitive religious types who "got it" could be
              offended.  I do agree, though.  I wouldn't put these up
              at work, unless I worked at Top Dog.
              \_ I like the implicit assertion that there is no such thing
                 as a gay idiot.
                 \_ When it comes to sarcastic jokes about homosexuality,
                    they're pretty well-attuned
                 \_ Or an overly sensitive religious republican gay idiot for
                    that matter.
        \_ I used to work at a company where there's an RCS script called
           /usr/public/blowjob.  The header said it started of as
           /usr/public/blowjob.  The header said it started off as
           "getHeadRevision".  Then it was changed to "getHead", and then
           eventually "blowjob".
        \_ Um, yeah what the screen saver guy said. I work at a gay
           company and I asked five coworkers if they would be offended
           by the above screen savers. Four laughed and said are you
           kidding me and one said he would be offended. So if you don't
           want to upset people at work, try to keep your politics off
           your screen saver. As for how to rectify things, I would say
           there is no easy way to do it. You could try putting an HRC
           sticker on your monitor, though that risks offending people
           who are opposed to gay equal rights and the probable result
           that some might think you were "outing" yourself. The easiest
           thing to do would to bring some gay friends around work and
           make sure your boss sees you with them. You *do* have some
           gay friends to bring around work, right...?  -ausman
           \_ Let's say I bring my gay friends to work, how the heck would
              the director (which we presume is gay) know that they're gay?
              I mean, you can tell occasionally but not all the time. -op
              \_ hopefully he can figure it out..
           \_ What's the point of having a screensaver with a modern monitor
              anyway?  Aren't monitors pretty much immune to screen burn now?
              \_ Turn on the DPMS screen saver to save electricity instead.  Or
                 better.  Turn off the monitor and the machine when you leave
                 work.
              \_ Turn on the DPMS screen saver to save electricity instead.
                 \_ Or better still--do both.
        \_ Which company is it?
        \_ I would agree that having political messages open for all to
           see at work isn't a good idea. To ammend the relationship -- just
           back off and give it a little time. Tempus dolorum diminuit.
2005/6/30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:38369 Activity:nil
6/29    The Daily Show and The Last Throes
        http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/06/27.html#a3668
        \_ This is excellent.  Thanks.
           The guy playing the conservative commentator wasn't funny at all
           though.
2005/6/30 [Academia] UID:38370 Activity:kinda low
6/29    David Foster Wallace's Commencement Address at Kenyon University.
        As usual, he's a complete twit.
        http://www.marginalia.org/dfw_kenyon_commencement.html
        \_ I guess this guy is an author?  Why am I supposed to care?
2005/6/30-7/1 [Reference/BayArea, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:38371 Activity:high
6/30     My wife is a naturalized US citizen who came here from Korea so
         young that she doesn't know the language. Something I hear from her
         frequently though is her conviction that white people (other than an
         enlightened few) think way deep down that only they belong here and
         they think they are being good for "tolerating" her being in the
         US. This usually comes up after some random homeless person or
         deadbeat (usually on or waiting for buses) singles her out for
         slander out of a crowd of non-Asians. So, with the power of the
         quasi-anonymous motd behind you, let's hear it white boys. In your
         heart of hearts, are you just tolerating the brown and yellow
         people? She says she thinks this is a particular problem in Berkeley
         because the high Asian fraction makes them more threatening to white
         people. -- ulysses
         \_ Asian = White to me, as far as I can tell.  But I grew up with
            an adopted chinese sister.  I do have some personal preferences
            that could be considered cultural prejudices (i.e. I hate loud,
            confrontational and overbearing people) but really those
            characteristics are not specific to races, even if there are
            cultural predispositions toward or away from such behaviors.
         \_ Ummm... I would expect anything you glean here would be
            considered from the "enlightened few."  Futhermore, before this
            I mostly heard this about black bums in SF.  I don't think race
            has much to do with the fact that Bums are usually kinda nuts.
            That said, she's probably right about a lot of people, but
            that's hardly an unusual sentiment.  Ask her how she thinks
            other races are treated Korea.
              \_ I suspect she wouldn't really have much of an idea
                 how other races are treated in Korea, since she grew
                 up here and doesn't speak Korean. It's certainly not
                 racist, but there is often the (mis-?)conception among
                 people in the US that people with non-white/black ancestors
                 are more closely connected to the lands of their ancestry.
               \_ That's why I said he should ask what she thinks.  It's a
                  thought problem.  I could've said Japan or China, but I
                  thought Korea at least made a little more sense.
         \_ interesting observations but I think the analysis is all wrong
         \_ I used to feel like your wife does, but then I left the Bay Area
            and met some regular white people (republicans even!) and found
            that mostly they don't care where you (or your parents) are from
            and what color your skin is.
            What I did notice is that most "white" people whose ancestors
           were immigrants (Irish, Scottish, Italian) are a bit more open
           to Asians (at least Indians) than are other "white" people.
            were quasi-recent immigrants (Irish, Scottish, Italian, Polish,
            Russian, &c.) are other "white" people.
            \_ This sounds a little like what someone said a few days ago on the
               motd about United Airlines' service.  It turns out that United
               treats everyone like shit, without regard to skin color, and that
               a lot of people in the Bay area tend to seem like assholes,
               regardless of your skin color.  It also seemed to me that a lot
               of people of many many different ethnic backgrounds, including
               white people had a huge chip on their shoulder in the Bay Area.
            \_ Which white people don't have immigrant ancestors?
               \_ I was refering to people who immigrated to the US rather
                  than the colonies.
         \_ My wife is Japanese, and she started living here in the Bay Area
            from 1999. She notes that white people (here and elsewhere in the
            States) have a hard time looking her in the eyes. I thought she was
            imagining it until I started looking for it, and sure enough, most
            whites will direct 90% of their conversation toward me, even though
            she's definitely the more attractive of the two of us. Asians,
            Asian-Americans, and African-Americans seem to pay us equal
            attention. Weird. --erikred
           \_ I'm an Asian man and I'll give you my observations and
              behavioral interpretations. Most of the white men I've met in
              the Bay Area are much nicer than white men from other places.
              I suspect it has something to do with their relatively higher
              education, that they're much more used to seeing yellow faces,
              or that they think I have a cute sister or cute female Asian
              friends. Even a lot of smart white men on motd have a
              preference for Asian women (jrleek, ulysses, ax, erikred, etc).
   \_ I've never stated a preference for Asian women.  I love all
      women.  And how did I become a smart white man?  Most people
      on the motd think I'm a friggan idiot!  Maybe you have me
      confused for someone else?  Thanks for the compliment though.
      My wife is Italian, if it matters.  I find I have some kind of weird
      genetic attraction towards white trash Irish women and Latinas,
      presumably since I am both Irish and Spanish. -ax
              All powers to friendly and tolerant white men in the Bay Area.
                However, I've had a much tougher time with white women in
              general. Although I've met a few friendly ones (heck I even
              went to prom with a white girl), IN GENERAL I find it hard to
              approach them. I can easily demonstrate this phenomenon when my
              white buddies and I go to the mall and we separately try small
              talks with cute blond clerks. You can easily tell that they're
              usually friendlier and more flirty with someone who's more blond
              and/or whiter, and they don't even make any effort to hide it.
              In general I don't have good impressions with white women-- many
              are shallow or bitchy. Maybe this is one of the many reasons why
              smart white men in the Bay Area prefer my kind, I don't know.
                To address the original post, let me just say that I haven't
              really experienced discrimination in my life. However I suspect
              racism still happens a lot in the backdoors of managements,
              especially for jobs that are predominantly white. My parents used
            \_ Preferentialism is everywhere.  That's why there's the Indian
               Mafia, the Persian Highway, the Sisterhood, etc.  If anything,
               white males are *less* obvious about their preferences, though
               Mario and his Italians are the most infamous exception.
               \_ What about Luigi?
                  \_ ^Luigi^Luca.  Mario begot Luca.
              to tell me that when they came to the US in the early 80s (not
              in the Bay Area) to rent and later to buy a house, they'd often
              get ignored or get rude white folks who don't seem to want to
              help them. A lot has changed in the past few decades.
              \_ Well, as a white guy, random white people tend to tell me
               things they wouldn't say outright to people of other races
               because they feel more comfortable. I find that lots of
               white people are racist against blacks and Mexicans (not
               Hispanics, but specifically Mexicans). They tend to think
               that Middle-Eastern, Jewish, and Indian people are weird.
               As for Asians, I have to say I don't hear much about them
               except how they are smart, wealthy, and build big, ugly
               houses. That stereotype is just as offensive to me as if
               they were considered poor and stupid. FWIW, I have had lots
               of people (even Asians themselves) tell me to never work
               for a Korean or a Chinese. Where do Filipinos fit into
               this? I think they get the short end of the stick.
               \_ Are you an Italian?
         \_ Anytime you try to generalize to such a large group as
            "white people" you are going to be off the mark. I am sure
            there are racists everywhere, but my experience is that
            white/asian relations are very good in San Francisco. If
           anything, they are the ones tolarating us, since they
            anything, they are the ones tolerating us, since they
            are in the majority now.
           \_ Hot asian women are always welcome!
            \_ Hot women of any race are welcome.
           \_ Um. I think everybody is racist. Living with other types for
              long enough usually forces people to accept that they're human
              too. Stereotypes remain. I think it's possible to not be racist
              as such but it's easy to resent immigrants because they do
              change the character of the places they come to. In the bay area,
              so many of the Asians are not very Americanized and often have
              traits that I might find annoying. I don't really fit in with
              "standard" American culture either though. When I was in school in
              the bay area, the largest group of people with similar culture
              was the Chinese/TW immigrants. The other kids put together were
              a sizable group but they were of various types. So my
              perception was that of the Asian kids being a bigger group than
              the white kids. When the population is composed of various groups
              that tend to stick together it's halfway like living in a foreign
              country. Not that long ago, the Bay Area character was completely
              different. So obviously this is "threatening" but at least from
              my perspective I don't have a family legacy here and have no real
              basis to complain.
2005/6/30-7/4 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38372 Activity:low
6/30     "We need scarier troops! Call the Americans!" (in Haiti)
         http://csua.org/u/ck3
         \_ Why does the UN think American troops can suppress the armed gangs
            in Haiti?  We can't even do that in Iraq.
            \_ Wow. That's so astute. Your years of military training, or
               serving in a guerilla army must lead you to that conclusion.
               I guess you forgot Operation Uphold Democracy.
               \_ What about Operation Enduring Clusterfuck?
                  \_ What about it? When's the last time you went mountain
                     climbing daily?
                     \_ We have created an ever better training and breeding
                        ground for terrorists, says the (America hating) CIA:
                        http://csua.org/u/clg
                  \_ We will withdraw from Quagmire when the Quagmirians are
                     ready to clusterfuck themselves.
2005/6/30-7/1 [Science/Disaster] UID:38373 Activity:nil
6/30     The USGS is giving a free lecture on Tsunami's at 7 PM tonight.
                                                     \_ an apostrophe doesn't
                                                        mean "warning! 's' is
                                                        coming"
                                  The correct answer is_/
                                  http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif
         It is at USGS Menlo Park campus on Middlefield, details in the
         URL below.
         http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaa-announce/2005-June/000488.html
         BTW, If someone attends, could you post a summary? (I want to go
         but can't b/c I have class from 6-9 PM). tia.
2005/6/30-7/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38374 Activity:kinda low
6/30     Apparently, Spielberg's "War of the Worlds" sucks.
           \_ I haven't seen a single Spielberg movie I didn't like. In fact
              I haven't seen a single Jew-made production I didn't like.
              You want proof that the Jews are better? Just turn on TV.
              All the intelligent, funny, and likeable commentators, comedians,
              writers, and producers are Jews. I wish I were a Jew.
                                   -Not a Jew but TOTALLY worship them
            \_ why not move to israel?
               \_ suicide bombers
                  \_ Which are statistically less dangerous than driving in the
                     U.S.
            \_ The motd racist idiot is back, yay!
           \_ you should explain why it sucks
            \_ I haven't seen it.  I've just heard/read a buch of reviews,
               and every single one panned it. I'm just a little
                 disappointed.  Here's ebert:
               http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050628/REVIEWS/50606007
               \_ you got to give ebert nerd points for picking it apart for
                  lack of plausibility, and lines like "Three legs are
                  inherently not stable"
                \_ Uh.  Tripods are most stable on any varying surface.  They're
                   not redundant, but they are definitely stable.
                   Now, if they're walking, three is inconvenient, but not
                   necessarily improbable.
                   \_ Yeah, I think the core of his argument is that it's less
                      realistic than Independence Day, and he's fucking pissed!
                   \_ Three legs walking are more than inconvenient.  They just
                      don't work.  John Christopher addressed this in his
                      Tripods books.  He explained that they rotated as they
                      walked.
           \_ Huh?  Most of the reviews I saw were favorable. (NY Times, Chron)
              -dans
            \_ Huh, you're right, LATIMES liked it..
               \_ Yes, and the Washington Post loved it
           \_ 72% sucks?
            http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/war_of_the_worlds
           \_ I think I would dislike this movie so I will skip it. It seems
              pretty stupid. And I don't really care for Cruise. And Spielberg's
              stuff, well usually it's good but usually also annoys me in other
              ways like having smarmy overly-sentimental scenes.
        \_ I haven't seen a single Spielberg movie I didn't like. In fact
           I haven't seen a single Jew-made production I didn't like.
           You want proof that the Jews are better? Just turn on TV.
           All the intelligent, funny, and likeable commentators, comedians,
           writers, and producers are Jews. I wish I were a Jew.
                                -Not a Jew but TOTALLY worship them
           \_ why not move to israel?
              \_ suicide bombers
                 \_ Which are statistically less dangerous than driving in the
                    U.S.
           \_ The motd racist idiot is back, yay!
        \_ you should explain why it sucks
           \_ I haven't seen it.  I've just heard/read a buch of reviews,
              and every single one panned it. I'm just a little
              disappointed.  Here's ebert:
              http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050628/REVIEWS/50606007
            \_ you got to give ebert nerd points for picking it apart for
               lack of plausibility, and lines like "Three legs are
               inherently not stable"
               \_ Uh.  Tripods are most stable on any varying surface.  They're
                  not redundant, but they are definitely stable.
                  Now, if they're walking, three is inconvenient, but not
                  necessarily improbable.
                  \_ Yeah, I think the core of his argument is that it's less
                     realistic than Independence Day, and he's fucking pissed!
                  \_ Three legs walking are more than inconvenient.  They just
                     don't work.  John Christopher addressed this in his
                     Tripods books.  He explained that they rotated as they
                     walked.
        \_ Huh?  Most of the reviews I saw were favorable. (NY Times, Chron)
           -dans
           \_ Huh, you're right, LATIMES liked it..
              \_ Yes, and the Washington Post loved it
        \_ 72% sucks?
           http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/war_of_the_worlds
        \_ I think I would dislike this movie so I will skip it. It seems
           pretty stupid. And I don't really care for Cruise. And Spielberg's
           stuff, well usually it's good but usually also annoys me in other
           ways like having smarmy overly-sentimental scenes.
2005/6/30-7/1 [Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:38375 Activity:nil
6/30     What .emacs option will tell emacs to not write a file like
         #*scratch*#4271V0C# in the current working directory?
         \- look at the auto-save section of the emacs manual.
            it looks like C-ha auto-save is a little lean here. --psb
2005/6/30-7/4 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:38376 Activity:nil
6/30    Does anyone have experience with using a 2nd HDD in a laptop as a
        replacement for the CD/DVD module?  How big is the effect on battery
        life?  Does power managment work for the 2nd drive?
2005/6/30-7/1 [Finance/CC] UID:38377 Activity:high
6/30     How many credit cards do you have?
        \_ 4-6: I've carried ~$20,000 debt on different credit cards for
          ~4-5 yrs, APR: 0%, one card rolled over into the next. Had to be
           careful enough to switch banks each time I roll a 0% apr into the
           card.  But I really only use one card for most of my purchases
           that I do pay off every month.
         \_ 3 but never carry any of them, use only one for making purchases,
            and pay off the balance every month.
            \_ I have 3 as well (BofA Visa, Citi MC and Amex Blue). I only
               carry the Visa and the MC. I use the Visa for all my purchases
               except for gas. I use the MC for gas b/c I get 5% cash back on
               all gas purchases. I have the Amex Blue b/c it was free for
               life when I was in school and they used to have the 1 time CC
               number. I stopped using Amex Blue as my main card when the 1
               time CC number program was discontinued. Now it just sits at
               home gathering dust.
               \_ does your 5% cashback offer have a cap of $300/yr (eg. $6k
                  in purchases) ?
                  \_ Not AFAIK.
                     \_ I bet it does. Not that it really matters though.
                        Also, Citibank offers 1-time card numbers.
                        \_ Do you know what the url is for 1 time cc numbers?
                           \_ There's a link somewhere on your account
                              details page.
         \_ 2
         \_ 1
         \_ Related poll: Do you pay off the balances every month?
            Yes: ...
            No:
            Both: .
            Will eat out of dumpster before carying a balance, death to cc
            companies: ..
            \_ Good advice I once heard: "How can you tell if you are in
               financial trouble?  If you don't pay off your credit cards'
               balance every month, you're in financial trouble.
               \_ Not sure I agree with this. It's along the lines of
                  people who advise to pay for everything cash, including
                  big ticket items like cars. There are lots of times it
                  makes sense to carry debt. The most common is when that
                  debt is working for you, like if you borrow to open a
                  business or to pay for school. Debt-free is not
                  necessarily a good thing.
                  \_ Not lots.  Three: School, business, home.  That's it.
                     Anything else and you're a fucking idiot.  I would
                     say that carrying debt on a vehicle you're buying for
                     work counts under the second item, though.
                     \_ Furthermore, you're also an idiot if you're doing
                        any of this ON A CREDIT CARD.  If you can make debt
                        \_ More fundamentally, CC type debt (rolling balances)
                           vs. amortized loans are a huge pain.  Getting back
                           on top of a rolling balance is HARD.
                        work for you at 21% intrest, I'm sure you can get
                        it to work harder at 5% intrest.
                        \_ A couple of friends work the 1.9% credit card balance
                           transfer deals.  This is very cheap money, but you
                           have to be careful about making payments.
                             \_ No shit. Who is paying 21%?! In many cases
                              \_ Lots of people.
                              it makes a lot of sense to use a CC instead
                              of a secured loan.
                       \_ Interesting. I'd say you're an idiot to use up
                        valuable cash to buy a car, but that's me. Lots of
                        companies take loans out to buy things they can
                        pay cash for, so that the cash can do something
                        else. Cash is hard to come by. I try not to spend
                        it if I can help it, even if it means taking out
                        small loans. Lots of wealthy friends do the same
                        thing, which is where I learned it. They buy their
                        Porsches on a 24 month loan so that they don't
                        have to suddenly cough up $100K, even though they
                        have the cash, for example.
                        \_ If I had a billion dollars in the bank and
                           infinite credit, I would still never spend
                           100k on a car.
                           \_ How nice for you. You sound boring.
                              \_ You sound stupid.
                                 \_ Stupid is having a billion dollars
                                    cash and pinching pennies.
                                    \_ Who said anything about pinching
                                       pennies?  I'd have a helicopter,
                                       a boat, a truck, heavy equipment
                                       and lots of land, but I fucking
                                       hate cars.  You'd have to *pay* me
                                       to own a fucking car.  A privelige
                                       of wealth for me would be to own
                                       land near enough to wherever I work to
                                       never drive.
                                       \_ If this is the case then your inane
                                          comment was off topic and doesn't
                                          belong here. I thought it's well
                                          understood in the thread that we're
                                          talking about car purchases by people
                                          who _need_ a car.
                                          \_ railing against cars is never off
                                             topic.  And no one is buying a
                                             100k porsche because they *need*
                                             a car. If you have the cash to
                                             buy a 100k car you have the cash
                                             to re-arange your life a little
                                             to not be a fucking car driving
                                             zombie.
                                         \_ You need to seek help from a mental
                                          health professional.
                                       \_ Ride a motorcycle, way funner
                                          than driving.
                                          \_ So's running barefoot across sharp
                                             rocks, but you don't see me doing
                                             that to get to work either.
                                          \_ And your chances of hurting someone
                                             with your idiotic driving are much
                                             lower.  Of course, your own chances
                                             of being killed by an idiot driver
                                             are much higher...
                                             \_ True, I'm just saying,
                                                hatred of driving is what
                                                got both me and my brother
                                                on motorcycles.
                 \_ if you can get 10% money market, and your credit card
                    loan is 1%, where would you put your money?
                    \_ Show me a real life example of this.  Not to
                       meantion, it's generic advice.  That doesn't mean
                       there aren't strange exceptions.
                       \_ In my real life, American Express offered a lifetime
                          2.9% balance transfer option. So I charged new windows
                          for my house to my credit card, transferred it to
                          American Express and used the cash to buy 5%
                          government bonds. I get $300/year for free!
                          \_ This is pretty amazing.  Just out of
                             curiousity though, don't you have to pay
                             taxes on the bond interest at the full 5%?
                             What percentage are you actually getting?
                             How much money did you have to use?  I assume
                             if you miss a payment, AmEx screws you bad.
                             \_ No, it is a muni bond. $15k. Yes, if I
                             \_ No, it is a muni bond. 2.99%. $15k. Yes, if I
                                miss a payment, I plan on paying it all
                                off.
                                \_ How did 2.99% become 5%?
                                   \_ Your question is unclear. What percentage
                                      am I actually getting on what? The
                                      percentage Amex is charging me is
                                      actually 2.99%. I checked after
                                      you asked. The percentage I am
                                      actually getting on my bonds depends
                                      on which one I am buying with borrowed
                                      money. The one that most closely matches
                                      the term of the credit card balance gives
                                      me just over 5%. If you bought the same
                                      bond today you would get about 4%.
                                      CUSIP: 486375DS4
                             \_ FWIW, missing a payment nowadays is easily
                                avoidable as long as you have the funds in your
                                checking.  Use your banks auto-pay ebill
                                system, or even the credit card might have an
                                auto-pay system.
         \_ about 10: .
2005/6/30-7/1 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:38378 Activity:moderate
6/30     Is there any better way for http://cnn.com to downplay the deaths of 16
         U.S. SOCOM and Navy Seals than to title it:
         "Bodies recovered from Afghan crash" (cnn.com)
         Also compare to International Edition link for http://cnn.com.
         Besides having a different lead, http://edition.cnn.com even has this:
         "Bush nets career-low TV audience | 9/11 link slammed".
         \_ Um, the chinook went down like three days ago.  There was lots of
            reporting then.  They finally got in to see the crash site and
            recover the bodies.
            \_ Yeah, but reporting then was "fates unknown".
               Think of it like this:  When three or more U.S. soldiers died
               in a single incident, what kind of coverage did you see then?
               Compare to the http://cnn.com title.
               \_ Look, I'm all about criticizing poor media coverage, but in
                  this case, I think you're kneejerking.
                  \_ I really don't think so.  16 U.S. soldiers dead in a
                     single incident.  This is normally big news, and it was
                     small-medium news a few days ago on Day 1 of reporting.
                     You can also compare it to the network TV news web sites.
         \_ Haha, is CNN the new Foxnews?  -- ilyas
            \_ The general wisdom is since 9/11 they've been getting pounded by
               Fox News and they want to do something about that.
               Anyway, there is a difference between http://cnn.com and CNN (cable TV),
               with the former being more easily measurable.
               IMO, http://foxnews.com has been more "balanced" than http://cnn.com.  Har.
               \_ General wisdom sure is smart. -- ilyas
                  \_ I don't know about that, but in this specific case,
                     general wisdom likely matches core truths.
                     \_ [deleted], let me explain how this works.
                        'General wisdom' is explaining an 'observation'
                        (which may or may not
                        be valid), with a theory which is neither verifiable nor
                        falsifiable, for all practical purposes.  This theory
                        can't 'match' anything. -- ilyas
                          \_ Your definition of general wisdom is strict, and
                             by being strict suits your argument well.  Sorry,
                             but that's all I'm going to discuss on this
                             particular topic.  To objectively measure this,
                           you could ask intelligent people of neutral political
                           leanings, "What do you think of the sentence, 'The
                           general wisdom is since 9/11 [CNN has been] getting
                           pounded by Fox News and they want to do something
                           about that'" (without any tone inflection or
                           suggestion that anything in particular is wrong).
                           I'd also ask that you refrain from using my name
                           if I don't post it.  It's not very nice from my
                           perspective, especially when I have tried to be
                           civil in this discussion.  Thanks.
                           \_ Right, it's the fact that my definition is too
                              strict, not the fact that this is just a conspiracy
                              theory which nobody can possibly confirm. -- ilyas
                              \_ What is this conspiracy theory I adhere to
                                 exactly?
                  \_ You should meet his brother, Lieutenant Knowledge!
2005/6/30 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:38379 Activity:nil
6/30    dear motd this is really eating me out and i cant keep it a secret
        anymore.  im a student and i rent a room in a suburb with mostly
        working class people who are gone during the day. lately i've
        noticed something really strange with my neighbor with whom i've
        met a few times. she's a really attractive and flirty housewife.
        anyhow like most people her husband is gone most of the day.
        everyday at around 3pm this mailman rings her door bell and they
        usually talk for a while but for the last two weeks he takes a
        package to her house GOES INTO THE HOUSE for 10-20 minutes then comes
        back WITH THE PACKAGE!!! i dont really want to know whats going on
        and its really none of my business but i feel guilty for keeping
        this a secret.  i mean what if something really goes on? should i
        keep quiet for status quo... ignorance is bliss, or should i be
        honest and tell someone about it in which case i may be responsible
        for destroying lives? whats the best thing to do?
        \_ Stay out of it. You have no idea what's going on. Maybe they
           are friends. You have evidence of nothing. I say make a move
           on the housewife yourself. It's the only way to be sure!
           \_ Seconded.
        \_ Blackmail her for sex or money.
        \_ Use your electronic skills to videotape her and the mailman.
        \_ procure a mailman uniform and sub for the day
2005/6/30 [Health/Women, Recreation/Dating] UID:38380 Activity:very high
6/30    Every time there's white women bashing on motd, no one comes forward
        to defend them. Take the example responses from "My wife is a
        naturalized..." and "many [blonds] are shallow or bitchy". Isn't
        this racism, and why isn't anyone pointing it out or defending
        white women? If you're a white male who has a preference for
        Asian women that's understandable, but don't you think your
        sister(s) and mom deserve to be defended? I'm baffled.
        \_ you're not baffled, you're just stupid.  -tom
           \_ Why can't he be both?
        \_ A lot of women are shallow or bitchy. Happy now? (What does
           "shallow" even mean really? If they're not constantly gazing off
           into space pondering life's mysteries, and falling in love with
           you when you try chatting with them at the mall, I guess they're
           shallow.)
           \_ Shallow women are the best kind much of the time, anyway.
              Hot, dumb, and shallow is a great combination unless you
              are choosing a wife.
           \_ "Shallow" means she's not deep enough to accomodate the full
              length of my cock.
           \_ [ deleted cause it offended my ... oh so sensitive sensibilities ]
              \_ Go fuck yourself.  The whole thread is idiotic, but I find
                 censorship to be far more offensive than anything written here.
2005/6/30-7/1 [Transportation/Motorcycle] UID:38381 Activity:high
6/30       I have a round Asian head and most long shaped motorcycle helmets
           don't fit well. What do you recommend for Asian round heads? Thanks.
         \_ Try a shoei, try an arai.  Most people fit one or the other
              pretty well.
        \_ What the hell does being Asian have to do with having a round
           head?
        \_ Try a shoei, try an arai.  Most people fit one or the other pretty
           well.
        \_ I tried a Shoei-RF1000 and it's rounder than most Arais but they
           still don't fit too well because of the frontal and back gaps.
           Aren't there helmets made for Asians, by Asians?
            \_ Pretty much all motorcycle helmets I see are made by Asians,
               HJC is Korean, Shoei, and Arai are Japanese. There are also
               a couple of Chinese helmets, but I wouldn't recommend them.
               (I haven't seen any that are Snell approved.)  Just go down
               to Honda of Berkeley or whatever and try some on.  I like
               the Korean made helmets, but I'm white, and I'm pretty sure
               they're made for white people.  (I've almost never seen
               anyone in Korea wearing a real motorcycle helmet.) -jrleek
           \_ Pretty much all motorcycle helmets I see are made by Asians, HJC
              is Korean, Shoei, and Arai are Japanese. There are also a couple
              of Chinese helmets, but I wouldn't recommend them.  (I haven't
              seen any that are Snell approved.)  Just go down to Honda of
              Berkeley or whatever and try some on.  I like the Korean made
              helmets, but I'm white, and I'm pretty sure they're made for
              white people.  (I've almost never seen anyone in Korea wearing a
              real motorcycle helmet.) -jrleek
              \_ I didn't know Mormons ride motorcycles. I'd think Religious
                 people would hate paganistic activities like riding loud
                 annoying bikes and intimidating drivers on the road.
                 \_ Every Mormon I've ever known rode a bike. It must be
                    a Mormon thing.
                    \_ Well I just think it's a very unkind thing. I hate it
                       when a biker splits lane, it scares the hell out of
                       me. I especially hate it when they have those super
                       loud pipes, and just as they are passing me, they
                       throttle up so that their pipes would sound like
                       they're going to explode or something. These are very
                       unkind, unChristian things to do. Bikers are like
                       devils on the road. I have a hard time believing that
                       they're Christians or Mormons.
                    \_ I know lots of Mormons who don't ride bikes, but, I
                        also know lots of Mormons.  Of course, a lot of
                        Mormons come from Utah and Idaho, where bikes
                        tend to be more popular period.  Also, I don't
                        know how a guy on a motorcycle could possibly
                        intimidate someone in a 1 ton box of metal.  Nor
                        do I ride a loud bike, I ride a little Yamaha.
                        Not loud at all. -jrleek
                        \_ Why the hell do you guys split lanes just as we're
                           trying to change lanes? Don't you know it scares
                           the hell out of us? Fucking annoying bikers. They
                           should be baned, period.
                           \_ Lane splitting is illegal in every state
                              EXCEPT CA. So, it's legal here.  It is,
                              however, not advisable while cars are
                              actualy moving.  I don't do that.
        \_ Arai Quantum and KBC VR-1 are pretty round
2005/6/30 [Finance/CC] UID:38382 Activity:nil
6/30    Dunno who nuked the motd, but a comment on the credit card thread.
        I've carried ~$20,000 debt on different credit cards for ~4-5 yrs.
        APR: 0%, one card rolled over into the next.
2005/6/30 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:38383 Activity:nil
6/30       Does anyone have experience with using a 2nd HDD in a laptop as a
           replacement for the CD/DVD module?  How big is the effect on battery
           life?  Does power managment work for the 2nd drive?
2005/6/30-7/1 [Politics/Domestic/California, Computer/SW/Security] UID:38384 Activity:high
6/30       Whenever I watch celebrity news I hear so and so is guilty in the
           court and have to perform community service. They don't get fined or
           go to jail, but have to perform community service. What's so bad
           about serving your community? I mean, isn't it noble to serve food
           for the homeless, paint houses for the poor, and clean up highways
           trash? Imagine the United States drafting men between 18-25 to
           perform mandatory community service for just one year. We'd
           have a huge [free] labor force to clean up grafitti, recycle
           cans, and other wonderful things that make our community more
           beautiful. In our ever increasingly busy digital lives, we rarely
           have time to even help ourselves, let alone help others out. We
           are increasingly isolated from one another, and have very little
           understanding on this "sense of community" that our grandparents
           talked about. Perhaps incentives and rewards should be given to
           those that help our community, to make everyone's lives better.
           Community service is an honor performed by those who honor community
           and brotherhood. It is sad and ironic that criminals have the honor
           to serve our community. Just my two cents for today.   -2 cents guy
         \_ For reasons I won't elaborate on, I had to spend some time cleaning
            up trash with the other "community service" people in People's
            Park at one point.  There is actually a pretty huge pool of
            people who have "community service" hours to do at any given time.
            Several of the people there had 1000 hours of service they had to
            do.  I was, as far as I could tell, the only person there who was
            actually working.  Mostly people would just show up and loaf around
            all day, then get double that number of hours signed off for by
            the dude who runs the park.  If the dude who runs any given park
            doesn't want to be corrupt, people just migrate somewhere where
            it *is* corrupt.  Of all those community service hours that get
            handed out by judges, very little real service gets done (although
            I busted ass cleaning up the park).
         \_ This is a fairly old idea.  This was called a 'subbotnik' in
            USSR (only this was done on Saturdays, hence the name 'subbota =
            saturday'.)  You should ask someone who participated in a subbotnik
            what they think of it. -- ilyas
            \_ why didn't you participate in a subbotnik?
               \_ I was too young. -- ilyas
              \_ Switzerland requires you to serve the military or perform
                 substitute service (community service). Maybe John can tell
                 you all about it.
                 \_ Yes, and it's pointless, a waste of money, bad for the
                    economy (by forcing people to take a large, unproductive
                    gap between school and work, and by forcing employers,
                    including SMEs, to subsidize long absences), and exposes
                    young men to drugs and cigarettes.  In the abasence of
                    enemies or funding for all these recruits, there are many
                    make-work projects to occupy the ~60% or so who don't
                    manage to get out of it.  It's state slavery; totally
                    pointless and philosophically repulsive.  -John
            \_ One might obtain a somewhat less grim view of such matters by
               looking at the Works Projects Administration established in the
               US during the great depression.  I believe modern Germany has a
               similar program where one may choose between military or
               `alternative' civilian service, but don't know much about it.
               Also, why constrain this sort of thing to men only?  That seems
               backwards and silly.  That said, if you're going to encourage
               community service, I don't think picking up trash and cleaning
               up graffiti are particularly inspiring tasks or the most useful
               application of that sort of workforce.  What made the WPA cool
               was that it took on really ambitious projects.  Even if you take
               all this into account, I don't know how much it's going to do
               for instilling a sense of community in people.  I know there's a
               geographic component to this: Many of my grandparents'
               present-day friends are people they grew up with on the same
               *block* in Brooklyn.  They joined the service together.  After
               the war they settled on Long Island together.  In their later
               years, part of the group moved to the same communities in
               Florida.  Of your friends today, how many lived on the same
               street you did when you were young?  Do you still keep in touch
               with your friends from high school?  Personally, I think my
               sense of community is as strong as my grandparents, just
               oriented along different axes (e.g. cultural vs. geographic).
               -dans
               \_ I think the CCC also did something similar in the same time
                  frame.
         \_ Why community service? Because we supposively live in a classless
           society. Billioniares pay the same amount for a moving violation
           as the average Joe. Community service forces the culprit to give
           up time, which means the rich don't get off easy and the poor
           aren't forced to pay fines. Both beat jail which puts the burden
           on society. All of this is separate from enforcing a draft
           (military or community works) or volunteerism. Much of the
           reasons behind why not lay with the relationship of citizens and
           government and society in general. And those discussions get ugly.
           \_ Where is the claim made that we live in a classless society?
              There have never been, and perhaps never will be a classless
              society. -- ilyas
              \_ I never claimed it was a classless society in reality.
                 It's just one of those things that American democracy
                 aims for. Probably a silly thing to put in the motd...
                 \_ I think the best you can say along these lines is
                    American society was in part a rejection of solidified
                    class lines of European society.  I don't think the
                    founding fathers were specifically aiming to create a
                    classless society, merely to reject aristocracy in the
                    European conception of the word.  Classless society is
                    probably impossible, and almost certain undesirable,
                    as a goal.  Even an ant colony has 'classes.' -- ilyas
                    \_ Yes, and we should never seek to surpass the utopian
                       efficiency and elegance of ant society.
                       \_ If you seriously want to make men into an
                          ant colony, you should read Hellstrom's Hive.
                          Also, a certain quote from John involving a baseball
                          bat comes to mind.  Do you actually maintain American
                          society has a classless society as an explicit goal?
                          Do you have a source for this claim, or are you just
                          making stuff up to suit your agenda? -- ilyas
                          \_ I think you were trolled.  -John
                          \_ I think you're being needlessly pedantic.
                             "classless" in the context of government applies
                             to equal treatment under the law, one-person-one-
                             vote, etc. I think this type of classlessness is
                             an explicit goal of American society; that people
                             have equal opportunity etc. --!op
                             \_ When someone talks about a 'classless society,'
                                especially if they talk about ant colonies
                                being utopian in the same breath,
                                I understand them to be using the common
                                definition the Marxists use.  I don't think
                                I am being pedantic at all, I think you
                                misunderstood the previous poster. -- ilyas
                                \_ I didn't write the "ant" comment, but I did
                                   write the original "classless society" one.
                                   The original thought was towards the equal
                                   treatment of Man under law as opposed to
                                   a more communistic "equality of Man" ideal.
                                   The followup use of "American democracy"
                                   was an attempt to point in that direction.
                                   Apologies to those who may have been misled.
              \_ What kind of "classes" do chimpanzees have?
                 \_ Chimpanzees have a society?  (Actually, to the extent that
                    great apes are social animals and live in hierarchies you
                    may well say they have 'classes.'  So do wolves.  An
                    interesting question I thought about recently is why do
                    all functional wolf packs have at least one Omega).
                      -- ilyas
                    all functional wolf packs have at least one Omega).-- ilyas
                    \- I have discovered a remarkable proof for this but:
                      (0. Hola)
                       1. it requires the Axiom of Choice
                       2. the motd is too small to contain it.
                       3. ok tnx.
2005/6/30 [Uncategorized] UID:38385 Activity:nil
6/30    Someone please call the motd format god.
2005/6/30-7/1 [Recreation/Food] UID:38386 Activity:low
6/30    This has got to be the most disgusting thing I've ever seen:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/taiwan_toilet_dc
        \_ you haven't seen very much
        \_ I thought only the Japanese would come up with weird things like
           this.
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/25    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:June:30 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>