Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:June:21 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2005/6/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:38216 Activity:moderate
6/21    Boy, it's a good thing Bush knows how to support the troops!
        "Marine Units Found To Lack Equipment"
        http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2005/06/21/marine_units_found_to_lack_equipment
        \_ I'm glad you rely on the fourth estate for all your military
           information. You'll make a fine draftee because you buy into
           the lies much easier than way. Don't let reality get in the
           way and believe that under a Republican President the military
           has more supplies and more of what they want.
           \_ Yeah, it pisses me off when the press goes to people who know
              nothing about the situation for their information.  I mean,
              c'mon..  The Marine Corps Inspector General...  What a liar.
           \_ So you think missing Humvees and tanks that don't work while
              hundreds of billions are siphoned from the taxpayers wallets
              is normal and acceptable?
              \_ Um.. there's a war going on. But even before that, ask
                 any soldier serving under Clinton, things were scarce.
                 \_ How many soldiers were killed in their un-armored
                    humvees by roadside bombs under Clinton?
                    \_ How many engagements did Clinton start w/o UN
                       approval also? Don't know? Ever wonder?
                       Your argument is like gun control.  Blame anyone
                       else but the crook.
                       \_ Other than kosovo?  dunno.
                       \_ Bush has gotten every cent he's asked for on Iraq.
                          It doesn't take 5 yrs to backorder flak jackets
                          and humvees.  Hell, it doesn't even take 2 years.
                          If supplies were low at the start of the war, why
                          not send up an appropriations bill to pay for them?
                          Don't pass the buck.  It stops @ Bush.
                          \_ Actually, it's probably more accurate to say it
                             stops at Rumsfeld.  Rumsfeld is the highest up
                             guy who is a believer in the 'leaner military.'
                             I would be interested if anybody did any homework
                             on WHY on earth there would be shortages in the
                             military.  It might well not be a money issue at
                             all.  Blaming Bush might be satisfying, but it
                             doesn't really explain anything. -- ilyas
                             \_ Didn't we already have this discussion?  The
                                suppliers of vehicle armor came out after
                                Rumsfeld said they were producing armor at
                                full capacity and said "Uh, no.  We could
                                boost output if the Pentagon ordered it."
                                They tried to do this on the cheap and have
                                failed because of it.  In WWII domestic car
                                sales were stopped so the factories could be
                                repurposed to provide new war vehicles.
                                Have we been asked to sacrifice?  At all?
                                No.  We were told to go out and shop.
                                They don't want us to notice that there's a
                                war.
                                \_ So I don't understand.  The
                                \_ This article does not imply the shortages
                                   the Marines are experiencing has anything
                                   to do with fundamental industrial capacity
                                   issues, but with poor planning regarding
                                   replacements.  Is there actually an
                                   insufficient production problem, or a money
                                   problem? -- ilyas
                                   \_ Sorry, I sort of talked against myself
                                      there.  I believe it's poor planning,
                                      period.  I don't think it's a production
                                      capacity problem, and for money, Congress
                                      has been more than willing to loosen the
                                      purse strings.  I think it's the civilian
                                      authority not listening to their military
                                      which I think stems from political
                                      concerns.
                                      \_ I agree that it's a poor planning
                                         problem, and I am interested to learn
                                         where the problem actually lies.
                                         I wouldn't be surprised if a part of
                                         it was just large bureaucracy overhead
                                         the military always seems to incur.
                                         I think the military just has the
                                         same kinds of horrendous inefficiency
                                         issues which plague NASA, for much the
                                         same reasons.  I am not sure if this
                                         can explain all shortages though.
                                         I would be interested if there was,
                                         indeed, the tradeoff between sacrifices
                                         the civilian population makes and
                                         sufficient stuff for the military.
                                         I am guessing not -- the US isn't
                                         that poorly off. -- ilyas
                                         \_ But it's all systemic.  I think
                                            the administration under-requested
                                            because they're trying to keep the
                                            costs low.  I think they're trying
                                            to have their cake and eat it too,
                                            what with taxcuts in wartime and
                                            big pushes of war dollars to
                                            private contractors.  If the war
                                            had been necessary, we could have
                                            accomplished it without going
                                            far deeper into debt, by asking
                                            the people to tighten their belts
                                            for the good of the nation. Instead
                                            we're heading for a point where we
                                            can only afford paying interest
                                            on our debt.
                                            I wouldn't be surprised at the
                                            level of inefficiency in the
                                            military.  But I think looking at
                                            the troops as a bottom-line item
                                            that can be squeezed is disgusting.
                                            \_ As I said, I am not at all sure
                                               this is a real tradeoff (troop
                                               supply vs belt-squeezing).  We
                                               aren't Russia, we have mind
                                               boggling industrial capacity.
                                                 -- ilyas
                                               \_ What do you suspect is the
                                                  problem then?
                                                  \_ I think the real problem
                                                     is inefficiency and
                                                     corruption, not any
                                                     particular conscious
                                                     evil ploy. -- ilyas
                                                     \_ What would you say
                                                        to a Truman-like
                                                        commission
                                                        \_ Creating oversight
                                                           is good, but I would
                                                           be more interested
                                                           in what is it about
                                                           the military
                                                           structure that caused
                                                           this sort of thing
                                                           to happen.
                                                           Commissions might be
                                                           a good short term
                                                           solution, but I am
                                                           more interested in
                                                           building a government
                                                           robust to corruption
                                                           and inefficinecy
                                                           is good. -- ilyas
                                               \_ You're correct, but what pp
                                                  is saying is that it's a
                                                  politically motivated trade-
                                                  off, not an economically
                                                  motivated one. -!pp
                                   \_ So we agree there's a planning problem.
                                      That makes it Rumsfeld's problem. I hold
                                      the view that Bush should be held
                                      accountable for poor planning that's
                                      been ongoing for 2 years.
                                      which I think stems from political
                                      concerns.
                                      been ongoing for 2 years. -!pp
                                      \_ Bush? Naw! He's a good guy. He can't
                                         help it if some hardworking Americans
                                         under him make mistakes now and again.
                                         What's important is that they're good
                                         people working hard for America.
                                         \_ You can blame Bush for almost
                                            any given thing that went wrong
                                            during his tenure, and be right.
                                            But, again, it's not a helpful
                                            thing to point out because you don't
                                            explain any particular failure --
                                            usually a complex affair. -- ilyas
                             \_ Bush changed 80% of his cabinet for his
                                second term.  He declined to change Rumsfeld.
                                You're argument is like blaming the Director
                                of IT for a 5 year IT systems debacle while
                                exculpating the CEO.
                 \_ Nice diversion.  Now let's talk about "support the troops"
                    Bush.  -tom
                 \_ God, that was classic Bushie: if you haven't got a point,
                    blame Clinton.
2005/6/21-23 [Consumer/Camera] UID:38217 Activity:low
6/21    Has anyone seen Triumph of the Will (1934)? What are your
        thoughts on it? Should this piece be banned from the film
        studies class or does it actually have substantial historical
        and educational value in it?
        \_ Nazi propaganda film?  I think you are a troll.
           \_ No, I'm asking because it's included in many film studies classs
              and I'm surprised it's not banned or anything like that
              \_ "If we fail to know history, we are doomed to repeat it."
              \_ also, she did a lot of very interesting things with the
                 editing that were kind of mind-blowing at the time, but are
                 taken for granted nowadays.  It's educational from a film
                 history perspective, even if the content does make me want
                 to vomit.  -sax
        \_ I don't really recall, I think I saw it when I was 12.  I
           remember it being interesting from a historical and film
           technique perspective.  Very effecitive propoganda.  Worth
           seeing.  Another similarly influential/horrifying file is
           "Birth of a Nation."  I remember that one with a lot more ire,
           but I saw it much more recently as well.  I especially liked
           presdient Wilson's quote at the beginning calling it
           "history written in lightning." THAT made me want to vomit.
           \_ The cinematographic techniques in it are absolutely fascinating,
              as is the whole thing as a phaenomenon in and of itself.  There
              are far spooker Nazi propaganda films, such as "I accuse"
              (forget the German title) and most of the not-so-in-your-face
              ones.  They're extra-scary because of the banality with which
              they present what to most people is plain evil.  If the topic
              interests you, there are some rare late interviews with Leni
              Riefenstahl that shed some light on her motivations.  As for
              "Birth of a Nation", it's much plumper in its propaganda.  -John
              \- Do you read Hannah Arendt?
                 \_ No, nor her books.  I assume you're referring to her
                    idea of the destruction of familiar social contexts as
                    a basis for totalitarianism?  I think the "scary shit"
                    I'm referring to would better be described as "chutzpah".
                    \_ "Eichmann In Jerusalem" should be required reading for
                       anyone, but I'm a little confused as to how it would
                       apply in this case.
                       \- the expression "the banality of evil" is most
                          tightly bound to HA.
2005/6/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38218 Activity:nil
6/21    Tim Russert interviews VP Cheney on his predictions on post-war Iraq
        prior to the invasion http://csua.org/u/cg6 (Post)
        \_ It's amusing how quiet the motd conservatives are now that they've
           been shown to be wrong in so many ways.
           \_ We've learned that there's no point trying to discuss things
              rationally with crazy wing-nut lefties who don't give a shit
              about facts. -conservative
              \_ Facts that are verifiably untrue don't help in a rational
                 discussion.
              \_ "Ah.  I'll have to think about that more carefully.  That
                  does suggest a problem in my reasoning." -emarkp
                  (From yesterday's thread)
                  \_ w00+! +5 points for using someone's desire to learn
                     and be rational as an insult!
                     \_ hey, it's not a crack @ emarkp. At least he gives
                        "a shit about facts," unlike the previous nutjob
                        conservative above. -nivra
                        \_ Yeah, you could scarcely conceal your glee on
                           wall though.  You are pathetic.
                           \_ Wow. anonymous ad-hominem attacks. I'm honored.
                              -nivra
                     \_ There was no attempt to insult.  I will spoon-feed it
                        to you:
                        "there's no point to discuss things rationally with
                        crazy wing-nut lefties" conservative guy wrote.
                        Yesterday, emarkp (another conservative guy) was
                        discussing the Lancet article with nivra (lefty).
                        They had a rational conversation, and emarkp
                        (conservative) left saying nivra (lefty) had a point.
                        This contradicts the idea that "there's no point to
                        discuss things rationally with crazy wing-nut lefties".
                        Got it?
                        \_ Are you implying that nivra is a "crazy wing-nut
                           lefty"?  I'd guess that the "It's amusing" guy is
                           (but have no knowledge of nivra's political
                           leanings).
                           \_ I'm liberal.  And yes, conservativeguy(TM)
                              will probably view me as a "crazy wing-nut
                              liberal" as long as he's stuck in his warped,
                              faith-based right wing echo chamber. -nivra
                              \_  http://csua.org/u/cg9 (kchang's archive)
2005/6/21-25 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:38219 Activity:low
6/21    Most SUV drivers do not have any environmental guilt: "Not
         surprisingly, few SUV drivers have been buying them. Most have gone
         to owners of fuel-efficient cars that produce relatively few
         pollutants."
        http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/funonwheels/06/17/car_smog_pay
        \_ If they had any environmental guilt/conscience they wouldn't
           buy an SUV in the first place. QED.
           \_ I am an SUV owner, and I can say I have more enviromental
              conscience than many people in my company because I use public
              transit to commute to work even though it takes longer than
              driving, while other co-workers living in the same area drive to
              work.
        \_ I saw a "BIN LADEN USED YOUR GAS MONEY" bumpersticker last week.
           \_ Do you know who our largest oil importer is?
                \_ Your momma's scalp?
        \_ Seems kind of pointless.  Just tax gas more and people will drive
           more fuel efficient cars or take the bus.
           \_ Ah yes, I'm sure our awsome Governator would be amenable to that
        \_ it's not fair to SUV drivers.  Most people do not have any
           environmental guilt.  how many people willing to leave their
           car at home and seperate garbage for the sake of environment?
           \_ I do. -ausman
2005/6/21-22 [Science/Electric, Computer/Companies/Google, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:38220 Activity:nil
6/21    Does anybody have current contact info for blojo@csua? I've
        tried to email him, but I'm not sure he still pays attention
        to the CSUA mail. -vadim
        \_ google has his web site as first hit
           mailto:jon@number-none.com
           whois the site shows his name/address/phone/email address
           \_ Thanks, I was googling for the wrong thing. -vadim
              \_ That should have gotten lots of hits on google too.
2005/6/21 [Uncategorized] UID:38221 Activity:nil
6/21    Has anyone seen Triumph of the Will (1934)? What are your
        thoughts on it?
        \_ Nazi propaganda film?  I think you are a troll.
2005/6/21-22 [Reference/Military] UID:38222 Activity:low
6/21    Draft these people http://tinyurl.com/b3bpe
        \_ HAH AH A this is HILARIOUS thanks for the joke
           (fyi it's about Confederates fighting Star Trek guys)
           \_ Highly amusing, thank you. Check the date on it as well.
2005/6/21-23 [Uncategorized] UID:38223 Activity:nil
6/21:  Is there a way to tell diff to diff the two lines it finds
       different rather than just listing the  two lines  and
       leaving it to me to figure out how they are different
       (these are really long (>>80 chars) lines)
       Thanks
        \_ ObUsePerl
        \_ you could probably use a combo of diff + {od/hd} to do this
2005/6/21-22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38224 Activity:nil
6/21    US 'concealing' Saddam's secrets
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4115976.stm
        \_ The world needs to know Saddam's brand of undies!
2005/6/21-23 [Reference/Tax] UID:38225 Activity:nil
6/21    Is it worth winning a trip on a gameshow when they
        set the prize's worth to like $4000 to make it sound good
        when you can just book a the same vacation for like $1500?
        since you have to pay taxes on it and all anywayz
        \_ took me five minutes to find, but here it is:
           http://www.boingboing.net/2005/06/03/aa_free_plane_tix_co.html
        \_ what gameshow?  You also have to consider that it might be
           fun participating in a gameshow.
2005/6/21-25 [Finance/Investment] UID:38226 Activity:nil
6/21    I can understand why GM's stock is in the dumps, but why is
        Toyota's (symbol TM) stock so cheap, with trailing PE of 11?
        \_ Yeah, HMC is even cheaper, which is why I loaded up on
           a bunch back in 2003. Japanese stocks in general are very
           cheap, mostly for good economic reasons, but these two
           have solid growth prospects.
2005/6/21-23 [Reference/Law/Court] UID:38227 Activity:nil
6/21    Regarding the Killen trial.  He was tried in the 60s and the jury
        deadlocked (11 for and 1 against conviction).   How come we can
        try him again?  Is it because there are new evidence?
        \_ Was it declared a mistrial for the hung jury?  If so, there's no
           statute of limitation on murder.  The plaintiff can refile. IANAL
2005/6/21-22 [Finance/Investment] UID:38228 Activity:moderate
6/21    How aggressive are you in your stock portfolio?
        \_ so aggressive that i quit jobs just so i can
           put all my 401k into Iras so I can buy individual stocks
        \_ very aggressive with my own money.  more conservative managing my
           mom and my girlfriend's money.  while their holdings are beating
           \_ My company's 401k has an option to buy individual stocks myself
              instead of mutual funds.  But I chose a mutual fund anyway.
        \_ very aggressive with my own money.  more conservative managing
           mom and my girlfriend.  while their holdings are beating
           the market, mine have been hitting home runs since oct 2002, when
           I regrouped after the bubble.
           \_ So what are your 'home run' picks past and present?
             \_ gains or losses > 30%
                homeruns:
                crxl    8/03    ~       540%
                nvda    10/02   11/02   66%
                bby     11/02   12/02   31%
                hele    11/02   10/03   123%
                hele    11/02   11/03   123%
                utsi    3/03    9/03    91%
                gric    3/03    5/03    75%
                fosl    5/03    6/04    111%
                vip     8/03    10/03   46%
                tlk     8/03    10/03   40%
                cyd     7/03    11/03   277%
                ivan    9/03    10/03   95%
                arlc    10/03   2/04    132%
                ach     10/03   1/04    55%
                bhp     11/03   5/05    47%
                mbt     11/03   4/04    75%
                rio     7/04    ~       84%
                pbr     12/04   ~       31%
                crxl    8/03    ~       540%
                ifn     11/03   ~       47%
                eurox   11/03   ~       55%
                maptx   11/03   ~       35%

                strikeouts
                ysp.ca  11/03   12/03   -44%
                cyd     11/03   11/04   -48%
                utsi    12/03   11/04   -53%
                nxg     2/04    6/04    -30%
                asx     2/04    11/04   -35%
                spil    2/04    6/04    -33%

                current holdings - held for some time:
                held for some time:
                crxl, rio, pbr, tsm, mbt, rtp, ifn, mchfx, epp
                macsc, eurox, mjfox, maptx, tavix, dvy, bjbix
                macsx, eurox, mjfox, maptx, tavix, dvy, bjbix

                current holdings - bought in the last 2 months:
                recent buys (few days to 2 months)
                desc, nile, sgtl, atyt, mot, snda, tm, fdx, vz
2005/6/21-23 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:38230 Activity:high
6/21    My math and/or perl fu is weak. Is there a way to get integer
        multiplication in Perl the way it's done in C? i.e. limiting
        to 32 bits. Like 1588635697 * 1117695901 = 1166976269 in C.
        \_ Can't you just multiply and then mask all but the last 32 bits?
           \_ I don't think so; that's not the same as mult overflow.
              > perl -e 'print (1588635697 * 1117695901)'
              > 1.77561160671918e+18
              > perl -e '$foo = (1588635697 * 1117695901); printf("%u",$foo)'
              > 4294967295
              > perl -e '$f=(1588635697*1117695901)&0xffffffff;printf("%u",$f)'
              > 4294967295
              I guess I could call C from perl but I'd rather not. Or construct
              my own slow 32-bit binary multiplier in Perl, haha.
              \-ObUseLISP
              \_ People sometimes give me a hard time for disliking Perl, but I
                 really do feel it's not a well-designed programming language.
                 This is one example of why.  Most other high level languages
                 have a notion of a native integer and native floating point
                 type.  Lisp and ML languages certainly do.  By the way,
                 what you want to do is 'use integer;'.  In other words:
         perl -e 'use integer; $f=(1588635697*1117695901);printf("%u",$f)'
                        -- ilyas
                 \_ Perl never claimed to be strong computationally.  It's
                    a text munging engine at its core.  That "use integer"
                    is required isn't all that surprising.
                    \_ Neither Lisp nor ML claim to be strong computationally
                       either (they are both meant for symbolic processing).
                       This does not stop them from having good design, and
                       a GC that doesn't leak.  Matlab, which is often used
                       for numerical tasks, has a base numeric type that is
                       a complex-valued matrix!  This excuse is neither here
                       nor there.  Perl's poor quality coupled
                       with Perl's popularity really lowered consumer
                       expectations, I feel, which is a pity.  -- ilyas
                 \_ Thanks, that works... except I had to play around a bit.
                    For example this case doesn't work:
         perl -e 'use integer; $f=1117695901*(3177271395/2); printf("%u",$f)'
                    > 137188522
                    The division seems to throw a wrench in it. But it works
                    if I put only the multiplication in a block by itself,
                    with 'use integer' there. I'm not sure I trust this thing.
                 \_ how do you get the C-integer behavior in Lisp?
                    \_ Lisp, by default, uses bignums in case of overflow,
                       but it is possible to get around this with some
                       syntax verbosity, for instance in cmucl:
                       (defun f (x y)
                         (declare (optimize (safety 0)))
                         (declare ((unsigned-byte 32) x y))
                         (the (unsigned-byte 32) (* x y)))
                       (print (f 1588635697 1117695901))
                       There's probably a shorter way, but I don't care
                       enough to find it.  At least it does the Right Thing
                       always, unlike Perl above. Notice that Lisp treats this
                       issue as one of type safety -- setting the safety knob
                       to 0 forces it to use the unsigned 32 bit integer type
                       for the result even if it cannot prove the result will
                       'fit.' -- ilyas
                 \_ well those people are idiots. Perl is not a programming
                    language, it's a bunch of ugly hacks that look like a
                    programming language. The fact that Perl is so popular
                    is not so much that it is intuitive or has features of
                    good languages, but the fact that it has one of the
                    most comprehensive libraries out there. I hate Perl,
                    but I also hate writing stuff in Java or scripts where I
                    need to build or find my own CGI lib, XML parser, code
                    generator, sql mod, and all the extra nice things that
                    are readily available on Perl.
                    \_ You should give Python a try.  It has plenty of
                       drawbacks, like any interpreted language, but its
                       a million times better than Perl IMO.  And you get a
                       huge set of the aforementioned bells and whistles that
                       are roughly comparable to what Perl has.  Note that
                       one of the first complaints about Python is usually its
                       use of whitespace as a block delimiter, so if you can't
                       get past that you're probably SOL.
                       \_ I feel Python is a poorly implemented, inelegant
                          Lisp with decent library support.  See Norvig's
                          essay on this subject. -- ilyas
                          \_ From Norvig's site: "The two main drawbacks of
                             Python from my point of view are (1) there is very
                             little compile-time error analysis and type
                             declaration, even less than Lisp, and (2)
                             execution time is much slower than Lisp, often by
                             a factor of 10 (sometimes by 100 and sometimes by
                             1). Qualitatively, Python feels about the same
                             speed as interpreted Lisp, but very noticably
                             slower than compiled Lisp. For this reason I
                             wouldn't recommend Python for applications that
                             are (or are likely to become over time) compute
                             intensive. But my purpose is oriented towards
                             pedagogy, not production, so this is less of an
                             issue."

                             Overall from what I can tell, he seems to *like*
                             Python despite these objections, and his main
                             objection seems to be that you can't compile it.
                             I've done tons of useful production work with
                             Python, so while I see where he's coming from I
                             don't see the practical downside of his complaint.
                             I can see why a computer scientist might object
                             to Python, though.
                             \_ You have to understand that Norvig works at
                                Google now, and Google has standardized on
                                Python, like it or not.  I am not really
                                familiar with internal politics over there,
                                but it wouldn't surprise me if he was somewhat
                                pressured to not hate Python too much.  I feel
                                scheme + SICP is the best pedagogy tool for
                                CS.  There are a lot of really clunky things
                                about Python I don't like, but then again,
                                that's true of most languages.  That's why I
                                want to roll my own one day.  Also, the kinds
                                of things I like in programming languages are
                                fairly obscure, hard to explain and verbalize
                                things. -- ilyas
                                \_ Well, roll your own then.  It's
                                   actually pretty easy these days.  Jim
                                   Gray is quoted as wondering why
                                   everyone isn't doing it.
                                   \_ Writing is easy.  Designing is hard.
                                        -- ilyas
                          \_ "A poorly implemented, inelegant Smalltalk
                              with decent library support," is probably
                             a more accurate description of the language.
                                - ciyer
                             \_ How do you feel about ruby? -aspo
                                \_ Yeah, ruby is a new take on smalltalk
                                   (dynamic typing, everything is an object).
                                   Python resembles lisp more than
                                   smalltalk. -- ilyas
                                   \_ So.  What do you think about ocaml?
                                      \_ I don't like ocaml as much as I once
                                         did.  It's a good implementation
                                         (which is rare), but I have been
                                         finding design problems.  E-mail me
                                         if you are interested in a serious
                                         discussion rather than half-hearted
                                         trolling attempts. -- ilyas
              \_ Foolish me for thinking that perl used bignums instead of
                 magically converting ints to floats. -pp
                 \- people who think perl is good as opposed to useful
                    typically have not been exposed to something actually
                    good. while one can debate what is the "Right Thing"
                    it's pretty pointless to debate what somebody else
                    finds useful. i use perl now and then but at the back of
                    my mind i am always a little nervous because of all the
                    things it is doing behind the scenes [to allow sloppiness]
                    which i dont understand. although admittedly i havent
                    seen perl do too many really crazy things since perl 4
                    [where you would hit crazy implementation as opposed to
                    design bugs like you would reorder a case statement and
                    all of a sudden perl core dumped. it's funny how berkeley
                    unix was the example of "worse is better" in the famous
                    "essay" and now BSD Unix is sort of the gold standard.
                    \_ psb, did you write some Open Source polynomial solvers
                       in Lisp?  I came across some code by a "psb" at my
                       last job.
                       \- um, i did write some stuff for MACSYMA a while ago.
                          this was sort of pre-open src so it was more like
                          i threw it out there. this actually indirectly came
                          out of a ucb linear algebra class. a dumbass friend
                          of mine brought us what he said was an extra credit
                          homework problem, but turned out sort of a hard
                          problem [maybe a Knuth 42] and this lead to some
                          useful stuff being written. the only place i was
                          aware this was being used was IBM.
                    \_ My favorite thing that Perl got wrong is their
                       garbage collector, which leaks on cyclic data structures.
                       There is even an AI koan about this very subject.
                         -- ilyas
                        \_ point is valid. Luckily, most Perl programs
                           like CGI/PHP don't persist too long. Perl doesn't
                           scale well for real huge programs.
                        \_ Is that a GC bug or a result of the way it was
                           designed?
                           \_ It was designed that way. -- ilyas
                           \_ It was designed that way.  See koan #2 here:
                        http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?AI+koan
                                -- ilyas
2005/6/21-22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:38231 Activity:nil
6/21    Show me the love, Palestine:
        http://csua.org/u/cgd (jpost)
        \_ "Another Gaza resident responded: "May God protect us against such
           weird and dangerous ideas. The next thing we will hear is that we
           need a party for gays and lesbians."
           In America we call people who think this way "Republicans."  Maybe
           Bill Frist should run for president of Palestine.
2005/6/21-23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast, Politics] UID:38232 Activity:nil
6/21    World's first solar sail in jeapardy: http://csua.org/u/cge
        \_ Does it say anything about the reliability of Russia's ballistic
           missile?  Or is that an outdated missile model no longer used by the
           military?
2005/6/21-25 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:38233 Activity:nil
6/21    What's the currently accepted "best" fastest way to write a lot of
        little data to a file in Unix? Is it still mmap/memcpy, or is there
        something more advanced nowadays? Maybe send me e-mail? -- Marco
        \_ I'm curious as well, so please post responses here.  --darin
        \_ I think you will find that it depends entirely on the hardware
           platform and in most cases the programming style only affects
           a few percent on the fastest RAID drive arrays.  this is because
           RAM and CPU are so much faster than disks.  trying to do high
           bandwidth network I/O, on the other hand can be tricky and
           interesting if you are into that sort of thing... zero-copy
           asynchronous bulk I/O.
           \- i agree, a lot of little details matter. is it totally
              concurrency domainated, what kind of device is being
              written to, is it ok to write to cache or do you need
              to flush to metal, can you use some hack like immediate data
              [veritas], is locking an issue? does your application only
              use traditional sematics [supercomputing uses have special
              ways of doing large i/o], can you choose your file system,
              is byte range locking an issue? is the rate at which you
              are given inodes an issue? etc. it would be interesting to
              see how IBM/GPFS would do at this.
2005/6/21-25 [Science/Space, Reference/Religion, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:38234 Activity:kinda low
6/21    What is the most overrated book you have read?
        The #1 overrated book of ALL TIME is: ZatAoMM
            \- BTW, many of the 1star AMAZONG reviews are enjoyable
               to read and are small compnesation for this ass book.
               Notice the two themes: 1. the author is *actually*
               insane 2. feel sorry for the son.
        \_ anything by Jack Welch
        \_ The Bible.  Delete this again and the thread dies.
        \_ Beloved by Morrison
        \_ The Bible.  I still don't understand why, given that the whole thing
           is translated anyway, the English versions always have to have such
           awkward language and style.
        \_ Beloved by Morrison
           \_ I really enjoyed it. --scotsman
        \_ Cyptonomicon.  God that book sucked. -aspo
           \_ Yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only one who hated that book.  Is
              everything by Stepherson that bad?  A friend thinks I should
              read Snow Crash. -jrleek
              \_ I think everyone who went to Cal should read The Big U.
                 It's a satire of American college life.  I think Stephenson
                 went to BU, but a lot of the stuff is amazingly familiar.
              \_ snow crash wasn't too bad.
                 \_ seconded
                        \_ snow crash is good.  Zodiac is short and
                           amusing.
                           \_ Zodiac's his only book with an acutal ending.
        \_ The Name of the (stinking) Rose.  Blah blah blah blah blah -- SHUT
           UP ALREADY AND TELL A STORY.  Whew.  Glad to get that off my chest.
           \_ What, you don't like vicissitudes?
        \_ Atlas Shrugged
        \_ Anything by Ann Coulter
        \_ The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress by Heinlein
        \_ The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress
        \_ SICP. (ok, just kidding)
        \_ Dianetics.
        \_ The New Testament.  But the old testament is wicked cool.
        \_ Design Patterns
        \_ Abelson & Sussman.  Ugh.  -John
           \_ E_TOOSHORT
        \_ Design Patterns
        \_ The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress. Look, fuckhead who keeps deleting
           this, I am entitled to my opinion. If you don't agree then say
           why, don't just censor me.
              \_ Trouble with the motd is you are interacting with some
              serious idiots. Either you get censored repeatedly or you
              can't even delete some 4-day old dead threads without them
              getting restored. Maybe by the same idiot.
        \_ The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.
           \_ Stupid additions were deleted.  You do not understand the
              question, although not as badly as the people answering
              "The Bible" or "Anne Coulter".  I had hoped you would have
              realized that after a couple of selective deletions, but
              it looks like you are beyond being reached.
2005/6/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:38240 Activity:moderate
6/21    DeLay is just a good honest Republican:
        http://csua.org/u/cgt (Yahoo news)
        \_ Dan Rostenkowski, and Jim Wright, are good
           honest Democrats too. Please! Both sides cheat,
           the trick is not to get caught. If you don't know
           who those two are, you are yet another person
           who thinks politics extends back only to Clinton.
           \_ The point is that he's the GOP House leader, and GOP folks
              are more hypocritical / much less apologetic about corruption,
              politicking, and screw-ups.
              \_ Heh. -- ilyas
        \_ Dan Rostenkowski, Jim Wright, and Jim Traficant are good
           honest Democrats too. Please! Both sides cheat, the trick
           is not to get caught. If you don't know who those three are
           you are yet another person who thinks politics extends back
           Clinton.
              \_ Rostenkowski was what? Wright was what? Talk about less
                 apologetic - look at Traficant.
        \_ Shock!  Surprise!  Politicians are all scummy!  "Your politicians
           are scummier than my politicians!  nyah!"  Whatever on all of you.
           These sorts of "your guys are more corrupt and hypocritical than
           my guys are corrupt and hypocritical" noise is sheer idiocy from
           both parties.  I vote for people who believe in what I believe in
           not for a party.
        \_ delay is much more powerful than rostenkowski or traficant
           ever were.  my memory doesn't go back far enough to comment
           on wright.  it is funny that the 5th in command
           republican is such a slimeball. - danh
2005/6/21-23 [Consumer/Audio, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:38241 Activity:nil
6/21    Hey native russian speakers, what the hell is this:
        http://www.dusha.su/main.html
        I can't figure it out.  .su is Siberia... I think?
        I didn't know Siberia had split off already!
        Who is this guy? http://tinyurl.com/72luo  - danh
        \_ .su is leftover from soviet union.
        \_ Where did you hear about these guys, Dan?  They are a cult, by
           the way.  E-mail me for details. -- ilyas
           \_ share all the juicy details with the rest of the motd.
              \_ Eh, why should I?  Motd treats me like shit.  -- ilyas
                 \_ motd treats us all like shit
2017/09/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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