Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:June:14 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2005/6/14-15 [Recreation/Media] UID:38113 Activity:high
6/13    What are your favorite independent films? Please tell us the title,
        your summary or synopsis, and why you like it. Thanks.
        \_ Motorcycle Diaries. Really powerful, touching, and funny.
        \_ Cemetary Man.  Rupert Everitt before he became famous.  Italian
           horror with an interesting message.  Also anything Jim Jarmousch,
           though my favorite is Down By Law.  Tom Waits, Roberto Benigni and
           John Lurie trudging through Louisiana swamps.
        \_ I shot Andy Warhol: Fun flick.  Lily Taylor is a great actor. She
           captures absurdity better than just about any actress around.
        \_ Terminal USA, by Jon Moritsugu.  Defies explanation.  -- !danh
           \_ wow did I make you watch that? - danh
              \_ Yes.  I'm scarred, I tell you, scarred!
                \_ Why can't you be like your brother Marvin?
                \_ I love anything and everything by him.  The one with
                   the meat industry band and the music video of cow bodies
                   is my favorite.
           \_ If it's a movie that danh advocates, an acurate description
              is probably "buckets 'O blood." :P
                \_ I'm not a slasher movie fan.  Terminal USA is really
                   odd, I think you can rent it at Reel.  I really want
                   to get the Godzilla rip off that Kim Jong Il kidnapped
                   a director from Japan to make it.  - danh
                   \_ Pulgasari
                   \_ http://csua.org/u/cct
                   \_ http://www.cultdvdzone.com/view_product.php?product=PULDF0LR4
                   \_ http://csua.org/u/ccu
                      maybe we should buy a copy for the CSUA.
                      (Also at Amazon)
        \_ Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back
           \_ That's an independent film?
                \_ It sure is!  lucas financed it and published it
                   himself.  george lucas's lawyer suggested to lucas
                   that he ask for the merch. rights to the first star
                   wars movie since 20th century wasn't paying him very
                   much to make it, and 20th century agreed, because
                   they didn't know better and no one, not even lucas
                   expected the movie to do that well and no one had thought
                   of tieing a movie to selling pantloads of crap to kids
                   before.   this all made lucas very wealthy and
                   he has been able to finance his movies himself,
                   not always with good results.
        \_ Cremaster 3
        \_ Bad Lieutenant
        \_ Star Wars:  Empire Strikes Back.  It has great action, nice
           cinematography, good story and a great follow-up from the first
           one.
           \_ It had the better ending.
        \_ Pi
        \_ Run Lola Run -- I think this one counts as "Independent"
           \_ Winter Sleepers or The Princess and the Warrior have more
              interesting story lines, but still have Franka Potente (hot!).
              I think the Princess and the Warrior had the sexiest
              traecheotomy ever filmed.
        \_ Schizopolis. Defies explanation, with prejudice.
           \_ Schizopolis is a lazy rehash of about 10 different David Ives
              plays.  Soderberg's a hack.
              \_ but I wouldn't let that stop me from liking it.
        \_ The Holy Mountain - Alejandro Jodorowsky, mind blowing 1973 sets,
           tour of religion and the path of the massiah? Unexplainable really,
           just watch it.
           I second Cemetary Man.  Gummo is funny in that making fun of white
           trash sort of way.   -scottyg
           \_ Good suggestion. The Holy Mountain is one awesome flick, much
              better than perennial Jodorowsky favorite El Topo. FWIW, I
              also liked Schizopolis. I'll throw in Lars van Trier's "The
              Idiots" into the list.
              \_ yes.  I think Zentropa is also a good introduction to LvT,
                 though it needs to be letterboxed (pan and scan cuts out
                 most of the reaaons for watching it).  The Idiots is a
                 really good first Dogma '95 film to see, though, and a
                 good watch in its own right.
                 Anything Larry Clark is also good, though guaranteed to be
                 somewhat disturbing and to involve teen sex.  Bully is
                 amazing and easy to find.  Ken Park is amazing and I think
                 Le Video has a VHS copy.
        \_ not so independent but good: Chinese Box. Jeremy Irons facing
           mortality along w/ British Hong Kong.
2005/6/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38114 Activity:kinda low
6/13    "Ministers were warned in July 2002 that Britain was committed to
        taking part in an American-led invasion of Iraq and they had no
        choice but to find a way of making it legal...The briefing paper,
        for participants at a meeting of Blair's inner circle, said that
        since regime change was illegal it was 'necessary to create the
        conditions' which would make it legal."
        http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1650822,00.html
        http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050613/downing_street_ii.php
        Sigh...Three guesses on how much coverage *this* will get in the
        states.  At least Blair is probably gonna get booted...
        \_ FYI, I was confused by this article originally.  I believe the
           mentioned briefing paper refers to the /same meeting/ as the one
           for the Downing Street memo.  The memo just contains minutes for
           that meeting.
           The newly leaked material is a "UK eyes only" briefing paper for
           that meeting.
           that meeting.  Also, here's the direct URL to the paper:
           http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1648758,00.html
           Note that the "victory condition" is given in point (2) ... I
           think some of you are still fuzzy on what this is.
           This part is true, the first sentence is hilarious though:
           This part is true but hilarious though:
           "In practice, much of the international community would find it
           difficult to stand in the way of the determined course of the US
           hegemon. However, the greater the international support, the greater
           the prospects of success."
2005/6/14 [Uncategorized] UID:38118 Activity:nil
6/13    hey stupid fuck: stuff from 6/10 doesn't need to be here. it's
        motd, not motw.
2005/6/14-17 [Computer/SW/OS/VM] UID:38119 Activity:nil
6/14    Does anyone know if it's possible to take an image of an installed
        XP box (such as via dd from a Knoppix CD) and boot it up in a vmware
        session?  If so, how?  -John
        \_ If you can take Ghost images, then P2V works currently.
           Supposedly support for LiveState Recovery images is coming soon.
           -rollee
2005/6/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:38120 Activity:nil
6/14    Bolton's first defeat
        http://csua.org/u/cd0 (LA Times editorial)
        "ElBaradei's return might be Bolton's first major diplomatic defeat
        since President Bush nominated him, but if he's confirmed, it won't be
        his last."
2005/6/14-16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38121 Activity:moderate
6/14    http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/local/11888623.htm
        The president of Gold Star Families for Peace, a mother who lost a son
        in Iraq ...
        "We're watching you [Pres. Bush] very carefully and we're going to do
        everything in our power to have you impeached for misleading the
        American people," she said, quoting a letter she sent to the White
        House. "Beating a political stake in your black heart will be the
        fulfillment of my life" ... as the audience of 200 people cheered.
        \_ Hmm, the administration apologists are quiet about this one,
           once again...
           \_ I am not a Bush apologist, but I am not sure what sort of
              comment you are expecting.  The lady in question is free to
              pursue her legidimate vendetta against Bush.  What more is there
              to say?  -- ilyas
              \_ He's probably expecting something like, "Dubya didn't mislead,
                 it was the CIA's fault" or some such.  Anyway I do think this
                 is the final administration line when backed against the wall
                 except put more persuasively and at least partly backed up by
                 two bi-partisan reports.
                 \_ I think another interesting question is what this lady
                    would say, had Bush given an adequate (to her) casus belli.
                    It wouldn't bring her son back, would it? -- ilyas
                    \_ Well, she might say crap about the lack of preparation
                       for post-war Iraq, something which Dubya has
                       acknowledged could have been done better.
                       \_ But what does that have to do with the fact that her
                          son is dead, and isn't coming back?  Let's say Dubya
                          waged the 'perfect' war.  Her son is still dead.
                          He is dead because people die in war, not because
                          someone didn't like the casus belli for this war, or
                          because the planners didn't plan for peace.  She is
                          asking for a fix to (or a retribution for) things
                          that wouldn't have saved her son's life, given that
                          the war did happen.  -- ilyas
                          because the planners didn't plan for peace.

                          \_ There was no adequate casus belli, that is the
                             whole point.
        \_ It wasn't too long ago when the pro-war people said the Iraq  War
           was worth fighting for. Where are they now? Why aren't they
           more vocal now? And why are they not marching to support our
           glorious and righteous wars?
           \_ Maybe we have better things to do than reply to trolls?
              \_ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4090626.stm
                 So, are you going to say that BBC = Liberal Bias and
                 dismiss it the same way our government dismisses everything
                 that doesn't support our glorious war?
                 \_ I like how he is redefining success as not doing the
                    worst job possible. I mean, things could have gone
                    worse, so we are doing great!
           \_ Even the dumb average Americans are slowly realizing that maybe
              the war isn't worth it afterall. Only a minority of the
              people outside United States think the war is worth it. Even
              the native Iraqi people don't think it's worth it. Stop putting
              your ideology into the Iraqi people and let them speak for
              themselves.                                       !emarkp
              \_ Source for the Iraqi people claim? -- ilyas
              \_ No, I think a lot of people outside the U.S. simply loathe
                 the duplicity leading up to the war.  Getting rid of Saddam
                 and other evil shitbags around the world is a noble goal for
                 a country that purports to be a beacon of freedom 'n stuff--
                 lying about it, and then fucking it up so badly ain't.  -John
                 \_ I don't like your tone at all. You are now on the black
                    list for being unpatriotic and spreading dissent.    -CIA
                    \_ I don't like your tone at all. You are now on the black
                       list for eating the peanuts out of my shit, pilgrim.
        \_ I'm so glad we give up so easily these days. It'll make the
           next attack all the more disillusioning. Why can't we all just
           get along? Get real people. 2 years and that's it? Let's just
           leave? The so-called spectre of Vietnam hasn't died after all.
           \_ The "next attack?"  So you are one of the fundamentally
              deluded who still believes Saddam "must have" had something
              to do with 9/11?
              \_ No, but let's get this Machiavellian point across, we are
                 fighting them, so they don't come here. But they will
                 still come though. So long as there are weaklings like you
                 who think second-guessing is helpful in a time of war.
2005/6/14-16 [ERROR, uid:38122, category id '18005#2.375' has no name! , ] UID:38122 Activity:nil
6/14    Petition to stop the bill gutting PBS
        http://www.moveon.org/publicbroadcasting
        If moveon turns you off, I'm sure there are other petitions around.
2005/6/14-17 [Recreation/Travel] UID:38123 Activity:nil
6/14    Anyone have a good recommendation on hotels nearby Seattle? ok thx
        \_ sheraton by the convention center didnt suck.
        \_ no, but if you have time the underground tour is a fun touristy
           thing to do there.  http://www.undergroundtour.com
           I was skeptical, but the guides were actually pretty funny.
        \_ the W was pretty nice if you (or the company) will pay for it
2005/6/14-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:38124 Activity:moderate
6/14    Even Alan Greenspan thinks the rich/poor gap in the United States is
        becoming a big problem.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20050614/ts_csm/ataxing_1
        \_ The dumbing down of the average American is NOT the core of the
           wealth gap. The problem is that there are too many people
           getting smarter, thus creating and keeping wealth that the average
           American can't possibly have. The solution is to cut all
           education programs and reduce F1/F2 skilled-worker VISAs from
           India and China, which will hopefully reduce the educational and
           income gap in the U.S. Wait, it's already happening thanks to the
           guidance of our great President. Thank God and Bush for standing
           up to evil. The Good and Righteous will always prevail. God Bless.
        \_ You know, the Catholics have the Pope as the head figure. What
           about the Jews? So I asked my best friend who's a Jew, and his
           reply is that they have Alan Greenspan.
           \_ -5 Lousy excuse for a troll.
        \_ "America's powerful central banker hasn't suddenly lurched
           to the left of Democratic National Committee chief Howard
           Dean. His solution is better education today to create a
           flexible workforce for tomorrow - not confiscation of
           plutocrats' yachts."
           I'm confused.  When did Dean announce his yacht-confiscation plan?
                \_ High taxes == no yachts, because rich people can't afford
                   lawyers to avoid taxes.
                   \_ I think he meant
                      Yacht confiscation != Progressive taxation to check the
                                            wealth gap
                      You say the first thing if you're a Republican.
                      You say the latter if you're a Democrat.
                      \_ What's funny is that most of my entrepreneur friends
                         here have this ideal of America as a place where
                         people say "hey, he's rich, how can I be rich too?"
                         whereas in Europe people say "hey, he's rich, he
                         shouldn't be rich, that's not fair."  How about
                         making it easier for the poor to, I don't know, make
                         more money?  Given all the effort that goes into
                         coming up with taxation schemes, that might be an

                         idea, or am I just being hopelessly naive?  -John
                         \_ The standard Republican answer seems to be keep
                            taxes low on the off chance any of them do start
                            earning more money. The truly poor pay little in
                            taxes as it is so reducing their taxes further is
                            moot. The left response is provide things that
                            either give the poor money directly or make things
                            cost less for them so they can keep more of what
                            they make. Where, however, shall that funding
                            come from, if lifting the poor is one's actual
                            concern? -- ulysses
                            \_ Income taxes != sales taxes != inheritance
                               taxes.  I do not like the latter, and #2 are
                               regressive, except for "luxury taxes", which
                               are a logistical nightmare.  I have no problem
                               with cutting taxes for "the rich" (usually
                               including your upper middle class) thereby
                               creating incentives.  There's nothing wrong
                               with "the rich" getting richer, as long as
                               nobody's poorer overall.  How about better
                               education?  Scientific incentives?  Tax breaks
                               for successful industries?  And how to pay for
                               it?  How about greater accountability in
                               govt. expenditure, sensible military budgets,
                               and cuts in direct subsidies?  And yes, I'm a
                               hopeless romantic.  -John
                               \_ When taxes are decreased, the programs they
                                  made available are curtailed. This is most
                                  likely the exact intent of much recent and
                                  Reagan-era strategy. For people whose income
                                  is small to begin with, reducing programs
                                  such as socialized health care and public
                                  transit is making many people poorer overall.
                                  Succesful industries (oil, pharma) already
                                  receive frightfully large incentives. Is that
                                  the most effective way to help poor people?
                                  A sensible military budget would go a long
                                  way, at least at the gov't end of funding.
                                  That is not likely for quite awhile, though.
                                  Bless your hopelessly romantic heart.
                                   -- ulysses
                                  \_ I don't mind cutting programs.  In fact
                                     I would specifically want to cut spending
                                     on programs which I don't feel benefit
                                     "the poor" (or the country) at all-such
                                     as a lot of hopelessly inefficient pork
                                     in defense, agricultural subsidies, etc.
                                     I make no apologies for my stance on
                                     taxes--where I am willing to concede that
                                     I am unrealistic is in my strong belief
                                     that there _is_ a shitload of waste and
                                     inefficiency in government spending, and
                                     that, in an ideal world, this would all
                                     go away.  I am of the firm conviction
                                     that a government's expenditures will
                                     always rise to exceed any funds available
                                     to it.  -John
                            \_ Why don't you like the latter, which I assume
                               you mean inheritance tax?
                               \_ Because I feel it is the business of an
                                  individual to what he wants to give to whom.
                                  Note that I didn't say I don't see some
                                  justification behind having it, I just don't
                                  like it.
                            \_ If we really wanted to reduce taxes on the
                               poor we'd get rid of the lottery and reduce
                               tabacco taxes.
        \_ The new thing is Greenspan says there is a widening wealth gap and
           widening wealth gaps are bad for America.
           The questionable thing is he also implies the dumbing down of the
           average American is the core reason for this.
           It's true, though, that if the average American gets smarter, the
           gap should narrow.
           The question is whether this is "the core reason", or just one with
           the distinction of having approval from Dubya's people.
           He probably can't say:  "The wealth gap widened because the wealthy
           benefited most on the last tax cut, and don't forget the elimination
           of the dividend tax and of the inheritance tax."
                \_ If everyone gets a PhD who will dig the ditches and pack
                   meat?
                   \_ The answer is apparent in Europe. EVERYONE.
                      \_ Yeah, it's great, I just got back from my weekend
                         socialist-enforced ditch digging collective trip,
                         and we all sang people's ditch digging songs and dug
                         ditches for the glory of the EU constitution.  -John
                         \_ You know, you laugh, but I actually have been on
                            one of those.  Along with my mother, who was a
                            college-educated civil engineer. -- ilyas
                         \_ Why do you hate Socialism?
                            \_ Because there's a chance of being forced on a
                               peoples' revolutionary ditch digging gang and
                               having to listen to ilyas sing peoples' revo-
                               lutionary ditch digging songs.  -John
                               \_ I've been known to sing russian war songs
                                  when I had a bit to drink. -- ilyas
                               \_ Ironically, I would pay money to see ilyas
                                  forced to sing revolutionary people's ditch
                                  digging songs.
                                  \_ I've been known to sing russian war songs
                                     when I have a bit to drink. -- ilyas
                                     \_ And Russian peasant drinking songs?
                                  \_ Ironically, in a society in which he'd be
                                     digging ditches, you'd be right there
                                     next to him, bub.  -John
2005/6/14-16 [Uncategorized] UID:38125 Activity:nil
6/14    Help!  When are we getting our disk space and mail quota
        increased?  My mailbox is overflowing!  Help!
        \_ Uh... how 'bout you save it to another location/bounce it to gmail/
           whatever..  And really, depending on soda to reliably keep your
           data is not kosher.
2005/6/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:38126 Activity:high
6/14    Gotta love the House
        http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.J.RES.24.IH
        \_ Sponsored by 4 democrats and one republican.
           \_ Well, it makes sense.  The only President to serve more than
              two terms was a Democrat.
              \_ Who?
                 \_ FDR.  Elected to four terms.  Died in the first year of his
                    fourth term.  Learn some history.
                    \_ Thx.  When did we start limiting presidents to serving
                       two terms?  And something bad triggered it?
                       \_ I think FDR triggered it
                       \_ Washington started it as a policy in order to
                          avoid autocracy or personal dynasty in the office
                          of president.  FDR was just the first president to
                          break with the policy, after which it was legislated.
                          \_ ^policy^tradition
                       \_ The 22nd Amendment limits people to 2 terms as
                          president. The fact that FDR kept getting elected
                          was the motivation. Truman was exempt from the 2
                          term limit but voluntarily chose to forgo a 3d
                          term (he probably wouldn't have won one anyway).
                        http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment22
                 \_ Wow.  You WENT to Berkeley?
                    \_ As a foreign student I never took any American History
                       class.
                       \_ Again, you WENT to Berkeley?  Well, I guess if you
                          were in CoE, you might have slipped by without AmHist
        \_ WTF are they smoking? Term limits are really important for the
           President.
           \_ Not for President For Life George W Bush!
              \_ What about President For Choice John Kerry?
              \_ Does anyone serious believe this?
2005/6/14-16 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:38127 Activity:low
6/14    Does anyone know the POSIX specified way to get the fully
        qualified domain name of the local machine in a C program?
        gethostname just returns the name of the box without the domain.
        \_ There probably isn't a POSIX-specified way, as there is no
           single way to map machine->FQDN.  (What if a machine has
           two, or 1000 FQDNs?)  -tom
           \_ So far all I've gotten is: gethostname, get IP address, do
              reverse DNS lookup.  Apparently this is a common problem,
              and everyone hates this.
              \_ It may be difficult to handle programatically, but that's
                 because it sounds like you're trying to do something which
                 simply can't be done reliably.  Maybe if you explain what
                 you're trying to accomplish there might be some help.  -tom
        \_ in otherwords, you want the result of `hostname`
           \_ Well, hostname -f, but yeah.  Anyone have to hostname source
              code? :P
              \_ On Soda: /usr/src/bin/hostname/hostname.c
                 If you want a much better example, get a copy of Stevens
                 Unix Network Programming Vol 1 and look at Chapter 11.
                 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/013490012X
                 http://www.unpbook.com
                 The http://unpbook.com site has src code for the examples which
                 might help.
                 \_ Thanks, the source isn't very helpful (it turns out)
                    it's non-standard.  But I have the Stevens book, and
                    if that's the way to do it, ok I guess.
        \_ Figured it out.  gethostbyname returns the cononical name as
           part of the hostent structure.  Not optimal, but better than
           the next alternitive. -op
2005/6/14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:38128 Activity:nil 66%like:38130
6/14    A really interesting article on islamic reform:
        http://www.cairomagazine.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=850&format=html
2005/6/14-17 [Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:38129 Activity:nil
6/14    open-sourced version of Solaris went on-line.
        http://www.opensolaris.org
        I tried to get the message that at least they should
        LGPLed device drivers... the message never reach the top...
                                        Sun Guy
        \_ I tried to get the message that they should have
           released it w/ a BSD license and included java
           along w/ it, but that didn't happen either. - yaSunGuy
           \_ shoot me an email... we talk about this off-line.
                                kngharv
        \_ I tried to tell Sun that Linux/Intel would really hurt them and
           their sales guys laughed and said that the server market is
           what they wanted anyway because it is where the profit is. I
           wonder how that's working out for them.
2005/6/14-17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38130 Activity:nil 66%like:38128
6/14    A really interesting article on islamic reform:
        http://csua.org/u/cdb (Cario Magazine)
2017/09/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/19    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:June:14 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>