Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:June:02 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2005/6/2-3 [Politics/Domestic] UID:37934 Activity:low
6/1     a guy on MOTD signed as "vet" said that military draft is
        inevitable.  would you, based upon your military experience,
        explain that?
        \_ death is inevitable
        \_ Do you want to live Forever??  -Valeria
        \_ That...is the sound...of inevitability.    -A. Smith
           \_ aaron is that you?
2005/6/2-3 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:37935 Activity:low
6/2     In the 'official' part of the motd it says ssh1 would be shut off,
        weeks ago no less, and yet it still seems to be on.  What up with that?
        \_ Whoever did the change neglected to restart sshd.  Fixed.  -jvarga
           \_ I just tried ssh from a Solaris machine to soda and I got "ssh:
              connect to host http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu port 22: Connection
              refused".  I tried both with and without the "-2" option.  Now if
              I log out from this session I won't be able to log in again!
              \_ Using putty forcing to ssh2 doesn't connect either.
                 \_ That's the last time I trust someone's changes to "just
                    work"... fucking dammit where'd all these sshd_config
                    errors come from??? - jvarga
                    \_ What say we strip some people (person?) of their root
                       cookie?
                       \_ I say we strip karen.
                          \_ I say you're a chauvinist and an ass.
                    \_ Dang, you've been in CS how long and you only just
                       figured THAT one out? :P -jrleek
                       \_ I'm glad it was caught before soda rebooted... it
                          would suck to have to go and be physically present to
                          fix this. - jvarga
                          \_ wait, if you're not a current student, what the
                             \_ Who said he wasn't?  School's not in session,
                                dumbass.
                             hell are current students doing? It used to be
                             the case that current students run, manage, fix,
                             install everything. What the hell do they do now?
                             Playing with Windows NT servers because UNIX is
                             too hard?
                             \_ Do you object to me fixing crap?  Because if so
                                I can just leave all the broken shit for
                                "current politburo" to eventually get to or
                                notice.  Do you object to njh, dlong, mconst,
                                etc also fixing soda problems? - jvarga
                                \_ Man, lazy/apathetic kids today (current
                                   politburo). As a mentor, how about teaching
                                   them how to fish instead of giving them
                                   fish?
                                   \_ Hey yeah, and while we're at it let's
                                      un-root all the non students; they have
                                      no business working on soda.  Thanks for
                                      all the cool shee-it, jvarga, you are de
                                      man.  -John
                    \_ Maybe that's the reason whoever did the change didn't
                       restart sshd in the first place.  He didn't think his
                       own change would work either.
                       \_ Then he should have reverted sshd_config to a known-
                          working state so that an accidental (or intentional)
                          soda reboot wouldn't fuck over sshd. - jvarga
                \_ seems ok now.
        \_ will the csua website recommend an ssh2 client we can use?
           will http://csua.berkeley.edu/ssh be upgraded as well?
2005/6/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:37936 Activity:kinda low
6/2     After 1950, 5 Presidents have been Democrats and 9 presidents
        have been Republicans. What does that say about Democrats, that
        they've sucked not just in the past 10 years but in the past
        5 decades? That they just can't seem to get their acts together?
                                -Disillusioned Democrat, now Independent
        \_ They controlled Congress for most of that 5 decades.  You know
           that Congress thing, I'm sure you've taken Civics.  I'm assuming
           you're familiar with the separation of powers thing?
        \_ yeah, they should make sure their brother is the governor of
           a key swing state.  -tom
           \_ Please don't tell me that you believe Jeb Bush rigged Florida.  I
              know you're obnoxious and rude and sometimes stupid, but I didn't
              figure you for a conspiracy nut too.
              \_ I am sure that if Al Gore Sr. were governor of Florida,
                 the election would have gone differently; voter rolls
                 wouldn't have been purged of black-sounding names, for
                 one thing.
                 In any case, what's so special about 1950?  If you look at
                 1960, or 1945 (end of WWII), Democrats and Republicans
                 have held the presidency about an equal amount of time.  -tom
                 \_ Because numbers are fun to fuck around with.  The question
                    itself is deliberately misleading, and was posted by one
                    of our stealth motd posters.  I simply assumed it was a
                    troll --scotsman
                    \- a pretty smart observation about election 2000 was
                    \- a pretty astute observation about election 2000 was
                       "when an election is that close, all theories are
                        true" ... i mean you can claim it was a sunny day
                        true" ... you can plausibly claim it was a sunny day
                        and the young hedonist democrats and homosexuals all
                        went to the beach.
        \_ The DNC in Chicago was the site of one of the most heinous cases
           of police brutality in the nation's history. The Dems of today are
           not the Dems of 1950-1974. Get used to it.
2005/6/2 [Consumer/TV, Recreation/Dating, Recreation/Computer] UID:37937 Activity:nil
6/2     So is the infamous 49ers training video available somewhere online?
        \_ http://tinyurl.com/dav7r - danh
        \_ What the fuck is this?
2005/6/2-3 [Recreation/Humor] UID:37938 Activity:nil 80%like:37931
6/1     http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/archive8/2005-06-01_linuxgeek.html
        http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/archive8/2005-05-31_monitorarch.html
        geek humor (SFW)
        \_ haha thanks that's pretty funny. Please keep posting funny stuff!
        \_ warning: those may be SFW  (inasmuch as obviously not doing work is
           SFW) but clicking elsewhere on that site resulted in a NSFW.
        \_ I liked this one:
        http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/archive8/2005-05-22_fredphelps.html
2005/6/2-7/12 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:37939 Activity:nil
6/1     SSH got restarted with the new changes (no more SSH1).  As a result,
        it may look like soda's key has changed.  This is just because you may
        be used to using SSH1 and therefore the SSH1 key.  The SSH2 key has not
        recently changed, but your SSH client may not recognize it unless you
        usually use SSH2 to connect to soda.
2005/6/2-5 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:37940 Activity:low
6/2     My TeraTerm SSH no longer works on soda.  What other software should
        I try now?
        \_ putty
        \_ Cygwin + OpenSSH. Related request - can root (or someone) add a
           webpage w/ the ssh public key fingerprints for soda and the other
           login systems? Soda's fingerprints are:
           RSA - df:69:f5:98:d5:68:d2:4b:9a:77:4b:53:75:b0:21:51
           DSA - b2:2b:32:26:6e:19:d3:f0:f2:51:70:25:30:c1:54:22
           \_ Done, see CSUA main page. - jvarga
              \_ Dude, whatever they're paying you, ask for a raise.   -mice
              \_ Dude, whatever they're paying you, ask for a raise.  Get a
                 life, man, you're making me feel guilty.  :)      -mice
                 \_ While you are on a roll, how about the wall log archiver
                    and the tmp and var cleaners.
        \_ Get the SSH2 extension to TeraTerm
           http://sleep.mat-yan.jp/~yutaka/windows
           \_ Great! Thanks.
        \_ will http://csua.berkeley.edu/ssh be updated as well?
2005/6/2-3 [Computer/Networking] UID:37941 Activity:moderate
6/2     I've been to many places and almost every place I go to have
        802.11b/g. However, almost all of them have protected access,
        which I presume they use because they don't want people stealing
        their bandwidth. So here is one idea I think will really
        revolutionize 802.11X... an option in the router that allows you to
        specify the percentage of unprotected bandwidth you are willing to
        share, while allowing maximum bandwidth for yourself. For example,
        I may allow 1-5% of my bandwidth to be shared by any random bozo
        while keeping 95% to myself. By doing so I hope others would do the
        same so that everyone can use 802.11X anywhere. I think this
        Socialist model benefits a lot more people than the current
        selfish model. What do you guys think?
        \_ I've wondered about that myself, but the liability issues
           might be a problem? (e.g. hacker uses that 5% to launch attacks
           anonymously?)
           \_ I treat wireless as "insecure" and have completely different
              rules for that link.  My server has three IP addresses, BTW.
              One can always limit the ports that wireless client can access.
              Limiting it to SSH port, for example, would be fairly safe.
        \_ It's not necessarily to stop bandwidth hosing.  For a long time
           (and probably still) spammers would hunt for WAPs to hijack.
           It's a liability to run an open WAP.
           \_ Holy crap!  Do you mean that by having an open WAP and monitoring
              the traffic I might actually be able to physically catch a
              spammer?  I like this idea <reaches for nunchucks>.
              \_ Indeed!  <reaches for M1911A1>.
        \_ The FREE MARKET sets the price of wireless access at zero in
           most of the coffee shops where I live.
           \_ you live in coffee shops?
        \_ I think it is not very hard to find open, free WAPs.
        \_ Actually, this is already supported by some of the enhanced WRTG54
           firmware out there.  If you wanted to revolutionize 802.11x, write
           a tool which allows people running consumer OSes (i.e. Windows and
           OS X) to perform the following with a single click:
           1) wepcrack closed network
           2) Connect to freshly opened network
           3) Act as a second level gateway for others in the vicinity.
           -dans
           \_ So is there any new wireless routers with customizable firmwares
              other than WRTG54?  I've been thinking of scrapping my Celeron
              firewall box and replace it with a small device.  But I'd like
              to have some features like logging(probably to a syslog server),
              QoS, etc.  I'm not against WRTG54, nor do I know anything about
              it.  I just want to know if there are any newer products that
              I should research as well.  Also, any good pointers on WRTG54
              websites?
              websites? - !op #13
              \_ Yes.  I keep posting this--M0n0wall running on a WRAP board.
                 M0n0 (http://m0n0.ch/wall is free, and the WRAPs (from
                 http://pcengines.ch are cheap and incredibly robust and
                 flexible.  Drop a mini PCI card in there to turn the firewall
                 into a wireless router.  Quite a few people (including some
                 very top-end security guys I know) actually do what you are
                 suggesting--open x% of wifi bandwidth to unauthenticated
                 clients.  Generally this is done with a VPN to the wifi
                 router, though.  What most people don't realize is that it's
                 not _that_ simple to crack WEP/WPA keys, although it can be
                 done with time and the right tools.  Have a look at the
                 Auditor collection (http://www.remote-exploit.org for some
                 more info on this.  -John
                 \_ So I picked up a WRT54GS last night.  I haven't played with
                    it much, but it doesn't look like sveasoft adds a whole
                    lot.  Definitely not "equivalent of products costing
                    hundreds or thousands of dollars."  Looks all the firewall
                    stuff is still done by iptables.  Since my discovery of
                    PF, I'd actually prefer M0n0, but the WRAP board you
                    mentioned doesn't seem to be a whole lot more advantageous
                    hardware-wise to the WRT54G.  I don't know how a 486 200MHz
                    compares to the MIPS based 200MHz processor in the WRT54G.
                    Thanks for the pointer though.  I still have 29 days to
                    play with other firmwares before I can return the device
                    if I don't like it. - !op #13
                    \_ Like I said elsewhere, the main value I see from the
                       sveasoft firmware is letting you boost the signal to
                       full HW specs from 27mw.  The WRAP is not that special;
                       it's a nice, robust, cheaper, faster soekris.  By
                       virtue of it basically being a PC it's extremely
                       flexible, though.  If you like pf, wait for M0n0 to
                       go back to 5.x FreeBSD-based--he had to go back to
                       4.10 due to some driver probs.  -John
              \_ Apologies, the model number is actually WRT54G.  The reason
                 folks hack on those is because they run Linux.  The most
                 common 3rd party firmware for the WRT54G is by a company at:
                 http://www.sveasoft.com
                 It costs money, but I'm told it's worth it.  Many wireless
                 routers are quite similar internally to the WRT54G.  Also,
                 when you talk about newer products, its important to realize
                 that the WRT54G has been getting frequent regular firmware
                 updates, which you can download and flash to get the latest
                 greatest features.  If you don't mind spending a fair amount
                 of cash and want to take the really DIY approach, check out
                 Soekris which makes small form factor glorified 486's that
                 are highly expandable/configurable. -dans
                 \_ I'm not looking for an ultimate router.  I just want to
                    replace my big box with something that's smaller, less
                    heat, and less power-consumption for my home, without
                    the router being a complete brain-dead.  Thanks for the
                    pointer.
                    pointer. - !op #13
                    \_ See above.  The Sveasoft firmware for the WAP-54G is
                       (was?) free and works a charm.  -John
                       \_ The older versions are free, but through a
                          Clintonesque interpretation of what the word
                          'distribute' means, they un-GPL'd the later versions.
                          Out of spite some people put newer versions in
                          bittorrent occasionaly.
                          \_ I recall a shitfest about the source not being
                             GPL'ed, and the Sveasoft guy basically saying,
                             "na na a boo boo, so don't use it."  The only
                             real advantage I saw for the casual user was
                             the 84 (?) mw power boost.  -John
                             \_ You can boost it up to 284 from the default
                                of 28.  But I believe there are plenty of
                                other firmwares that are completely free that
                                can do this. - !op #13
                                \_ I think my wap-54g only does 84.  Can you
                                   give me some pointers to other firmwares
                                   if you've tried any?  -John
                                   \_ I haven't tried it, but many people
                                      seem to like HyperWRT, whose focus is
                                      to boost the radio:
                                      http://www.hyperwrt.org - !op #13
        \_ Capitalist Wireless - sharing 0% of your wireless for free.
             Only those who pay can access wireless
           Socialist Wireless - sharing 10% of your wireless for free.
             EVERYONE gets something, but those who pay get 9X better access.
           Communist Wireless - sharing 100% of your wireless for free.
             Everyone gets something, but no one gets a premium access.
           Fascist Wireless - the government tracks down every single WAP.
           \_ 'Socialist Worker' Wireless - Mommy and Daddy pay for wireless.
2005/6/2-3 [Recreation/Activities] UID:37942 Activity:moderate
6/2     Has anyone traveled with ANA? How are they? Thanks.
        \_ I dunno about Ana, but I've traveled with yermom.
        \_ Assuming you're talking about All Nippon Airways, they're great.
           The people are friendly, everyone in Economy gets their own
           screen for movies/video games (SuperMario, golf, tennis, etc.),
           the food's not bad, and the flights are almost always on time or
           early. When they made an error with my seat, representatives called
           me throughout my trip to apologize and make sure that I had a good
           seat on the way back. --erikred
           \_ Yes, thanks!
2005/6/2-3 [Recreation/Dating, Health/Women] UID:37943 Activity:kinda low
6/2     When women drive, evil thrives.
        http://csua.org/u/c8z
        \_ The Saudis are half right.  Now if they could just ban men from
           driving cars also, they'd be on to something.
           \_ Then they'll have more oil to export.  Good for us, good for
              them.
        \_ Actually they're on to something. Men are more likely to get into
           an accident, but they also drive twice as far. Mile for mile, women
           are 2X more likely to get into an accident. I can attribute this to
           the fact that every time I see someone driving recklessly, it is
           a female driver talking on the cell phone while doing make-up. I
           also have observations on drivers over 80 years old and immigrant
           drivers, but I'll save them later.
           \_ WTF do you mean by "immigrant"? Asian backwoods folks? Or Russians?
           \_ BS. Where do you get these figures? If driving longer, does
              that mean highway (safer) miles? Most accidents happen near the
              home and in city/local driving...doesnt mean shit.
              \_ BS? http://christianparty.net/mvfr.htm Endorsed by Jesus.
                     \_ This site is just amazing... Wow.  No really, wow.
                        \_ http://christianparty.net/talmud.htm
                           Haha!  There are some real gems on that site.
                           I especially love the claim that hybrids are more
                           susceptible to disease.  Or, heck, the claim that
                           the Celto-Saxons (?) are the true Israelites.
                           Man, I can just go on and on.  Whoever pasted this
                           link, thanks! -- ilyas
                           \_ What's a Talmud? It's too long to read. Also,
                              are you Jewish? What is Balaam?
                              \- it is a guide for the perplexed.
            http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980516133725data_trunc_sys.shtml
2005/6/2-3 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37944 Activity:moderate
6/2     http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8008873
        Freedom in Iraq. Things are getting better. I have no doubt that
        Bush will be remembered as the greatest leader in the world,
        liberating and educating the Iraqi savages.
        \_ Yeah, you know.. things aren't moving fast enough after
           a war. Why it took 11 years to rebuild Japan under U.S.
           occupation, how come a little country like Iraq is taking
           so long! Like today at Starbucks - it took them two minutes
           to make the damn latte! Oh.. what was I talking about again?
           \_ Iraq, Vietnam != Japan, Germany ; Gulf War 2 != WW2
              \_ Iraq != Vietnam.
                 \_ Iraq ~= Vietnam
                    \_ Only when viewed from an extrememly narrow
                       single-minded viewpoint.  The approximation is
                       essentially useless.
                       \_ Your statements are true only when viewed from an
                          extremely narrow, single-minded, and superficial
                          viewpoint.
                          The similarities lie in three critical elements:
                          (1) We went in under assumptions that proved to be
                              either dubious or false.
                          (1a) The assumptions we went in on were ones in which
                               protecting America was fundamental.
                          (2) When we leave {Iraq,Vietnam} because of
                              political realities even with our
                              superior technology and track record of winning
                              almost every battle we fight, we might lose.
                          (3) We didn't have an effective insurgency in
                              post-WW2 {Japan,Germany}.
                          But I will give you several ways they're essentially
                          different:
                          (1) History isn't written in Iraq yet.  We might
                          (1) The assumptions we went in on were ones in which
                              protecting America was fundamental.
                              (that's actually the same not different, oh well)
                          (2) History isn't written in Iraq yet.  We might
                              eventually win (form a stable government that
                              doesn't build WMDs and opposes terrorism).
                          (2) Deaths of U.S. soldiers are two orders of
                          (3) Deaths of U.S. soldiers are two orders of
                              magnitude lower, and there is no draft.
                              \_ uh, 50K U.S. soldiers died in Vietnam in
                                 13 years.  We have over 1K dead in about
                                 2 years.  That's at most one order of
                                 magnitude different.  -tom
                                 \_ Shit, you're right.
                                    I was looking at Wikipedia and didn't
                                    realize the "287,232" was RVN + U.S.
                                    Re-doing the math, yes, "at most" but
                                    around one order of magnitude difference
                                    in terms of annual rate of deaths.
                                 \_ Okay, I was dividing by 7 years of having
                                    a significant troop present, which gives
                                    a significant troop presence, which gives
                                    a 60 times difference in deaths anually,
                                    but that might be a wrong assumption.
                                 \_ What's an order of magnitude between
                                    friends.
                          \_ Well, crap.  We essentially agree, you just
                             think your reasons they're the same are more
                             important than mine that they're different.
                             I'm too lazy to list a bunch of reasons
                             they're the same or different, I'll just say
                             the A-3 is irrelevent to my point. -!op
                          \_ I don't think deaths really matter to the
                             Americans. 1600 dead isn't a lot and most people
                             don't care, since there's no draft. What really
                             matters is how much our wonder-weapons cost and
                             how much the military is draining our economy, and
                             how worthless our money has become over the past
                             few years.
                             \_ Deaths really matter to Americans if there's
                                a draft.  But yeah, no draft, then it's the
                                money we spend on an inefficiently executed
                                war for core assumptions that turned out to
                                be wrong.  Oops.
        \_ With their new founded freedom of speech they can now say anything,
           including bad things about the evil US imperial occupation and wage
           media war in the entire Middle East region.
           \_ This will be fun when they do something akin to Iran (and what
              Turkey did once) and vote to abandon democracy for theocracy.
              \_ The US gov hoped the Iraqi people would vote for a secular
                 government, but instead the Iraqi people voted for theocracy:
           http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21679-2005Feb13.html
2005/6/2-5 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:37945 Activity:nil
6/2     The Governator's Solar Roof Plan passes:
        http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/11790776.htm
2005/6/2-3 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:37946 Activity:nil
6/2     The ultimate ram disk:
        http://tinyurl.com/dcenq (infoworld.com)
2005/6/2-5 [Uncategorized] UID:37947 Activity:nil
6/2     Mod case contest: Hamster-Case wins
        http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1817511,00.asp
2005/6/2-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Domestic/HateGroups] UID:37948 Activity:high
6/2     http://tinyurl.com/cdksf
        Average Asian boy IQ=118, average Asian girl IQ=110,
        average Caucasian boy IQ=108, average Caucasian girl IQ=100.
        What about Blond Caucasian girl IQ and non-Blond Caucasian girl?
        You know, like, they totally need to redo this test, like, totally!
        \_ "Did the "liberals" in education [read: jews]..." are you the
           same guy as below?
        \_ Standarad Deviation?  That's pretty important here.
        \_ So men are smarter than women?
        \_ Berkeley ranks top along with MIT! Rejoice!  We're all winners!!!
           FYI some of the Bell Curve reviews at http://Amazon.com are hilarious!
           "Them damn Asians are spoiling my KKK world order!"
           http://csua.org/u/c9b
           \_ If that's the sort of thing you find entertaining, you may find
              this amusing: http://csua.org/u/c9c Amazon reviews of Wolfram's
              book.
           \- helo there is an article about smart ashkanazim in this
              week's e'ist.
        \_ All you people who commented, should look at the URL.  It is so
           overtly racist that I find it hard to credit their "facts":
           I suspect they've been twisted somewhat to suit an agenda.
           \_ Dude it's so overtly racist that "twisted somewhat" is
              giving it way more credit than it deserves.  To the person
              who posted this I sure as hell hope you are a troll, which
              just makes you mostly a pathetic excuse for a person.
2005/6/2-6 [Consumer/Audio] UID:37949 Activity:nil
6/2     http://engadget.com/entry/1234000703045433
        Apple agrees to settlement in iPod battery class action suit. Thank
        God this is happening. I've always wondered why my second generation
        iPod only lasts 4 hours instead of 10. It's pay back time.
        \_ $25 cash or $50 credit at an Apple store? is there anything
           worthwhile for ~$50 there?
           \_ Apple Wireless Mouse.
2005/6/2-3 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:37950 Activity:high
6/2     Christopher Cox is nominated to be head of SEC:
        http://tinyurl.com/aju4p
        I remember he is the guy said that *ALL* Chinese Americans
        are potentially spy for the communist China.  Thank god
        9/11 happened, or Chinese will be the one who are being
        targeted.
        \_ He's also on record as saying that he didn't see anything wrong
           with Enron's accounting practices.
        \_ Is it not true?
           \_ just think that broad statement like that is racist,
              nothing more.  and he is close to Bush's inner circle.
              \_ Not that I particularly have strong feelings either way
                 on any of this, but I just wanted to make a meta-comment
                 about people's propensity to care more about whether something
                 is racist or not, rather than whether something is true or not.
                 -- ilyas
                 \_ There's this nuance to human interaction that involves
                    intent and inflection, which can radically change the
                    information being transmitted.  In these situations, it's
                    clearly possible that while understanding the meaning
                    of the words, the content of the message is entirely lost
                    upon the strict logician/semanticist.
                 \_ It's too bad that people have become so concerned about
                    racism, that they've somewhat lost the ability to
                    distinguish between general stupidity with no malicious
                    intent and genuine hatred based solely on race.  Of
                    course, evaluating a statement based solely on its truth
                    can yield information that falls very short of the intent.
                    There's a bigger picture here than pure semantics, ilyas.
                    \_ It's fairly clear that the fellow in the original post
                       wasn't interested in stating a near-tautology, but was
                       more interested in stirring up some sort of xenophobia
                       towards Chinese-Americans.  I probably didn't explain
                       well enough that I wasn't commenting on that specific
                       line at all.  I am more interested in people unwilling
                       to start discussions on things like aptitude differences
                       among ethnic groups (since such things are 'racist').
                       The followup which responded to the question of whether
                       the line was true with the implication it was racist
                       reminded me of this dynamic playing out (regardless of
                       how well justified it may be in some cases).  I hope you
                       weren't implying I have Asperger's or something. -- ilyas
                    \_ Are you also saying intent and inflection is
                       generally transmittable across the Internet, or are you
                       just making a general remark?  Or perhaps that
                       someone, somewhere might be having a mild case of
                       Asperger's syndrome... -- ilyas
                 \_ "All humans are potential spies for communist China" is a
                    true statement as well.  It is clearly not a racist
                    statement, but it is a stupid one.  From a purely strategic
                    point of view, paranoia about Chinese scientists has the
                    potential to harm our country more than any Chinese spy.
                    In fact, I believe it is doing very real harm to our country
                    right now.
                    \_ Some additional 'racist hypotheses' from our friends at
                       http://economist.com:
                       http://economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=4032638
                       I am sort of glad these sorts of things can even be
                       printed these days without being laughed out of the
                       room. -- ilyas
                       \_ "On average" vs. "All"
                          \_ As I said, neither of my comments have been
                             really about the original post. -- ilyas
2005/6/2-4 [Computer/Companies/Ebay, Computer/HW/Memory] UID:37951 Activity:moderate
6/2     Help. I purchased 2 RAM modules from eBay, and the listing says
        "These units were pulled from a Compaq Proliant Server being
        stripped for parts and are in excellent condition." At the same
        time, it says "Item sold as is." When I got the RAM they have a
        strong burnt smell, and just as I feared, they don't work on ANY
        of my motherboards. I contacted the seller and he says sold
        "AS IS." This guy is dishonest. I feel jipped. Can I actually do
        something to remedy this, besides giving negative feedbacks? Does
        dispute resolution actually work on eBay?
        \- you can set up throw away accounts and mess with his future
           auctions. --psb
           \_ I thought about that but I don't have throw-away credit cards
              required by eBay. Come on, isn't that kind of childish?
              \- you can try googlebombing him then.
                 if you cancel a CC does ebay find out about it?
                 \_ oh, googlebombing, I'm sure the seller is SCARED!!! OOOO
        \_ Skipping all the mumbo jumbo about legality and what not,
           if it came from Proliant, I'd guess that they're registered
           DIMMs.  What kind of motherboards are you putting them into?
           Most consumer boards don't support registered memory.
        \- You can resort to credit card dispute resolution service.
           that has worked for me 3-4 times. dunno how that will work
           in this case [assuming you paid via paypal].
        \_ Isn't that totally the point of AS IS? What you should look
           for is a "DOA guarantee". "As Is" means "buyer beware".
           \_ Unless the post said that they were working, it's your
              fault.  I always avoid "AS IS."
                \_ Excellent condition would imply working.  The seller
                   probably had no clue if they worked or not and didn't
                   want to test them out.  The seller is just covering his
                   ass, he should refund you your money but he doesn't have
                   to since it was "as is".
                   \- i do agree that if you didnt even bother to ask
                      the seller "did you even try to verify it is working
                      or do you have no idea" the fault is yours.
                      a nice seller out to refund minus shipping maybe
                      but ethical and legal obligations diverge ...
           \_ I honestly didn't see the as is claim. Looking back, it's
              embedded in a very small print, "Seller's payment instructions
              Please see item description Item sold as is." It's a run-on
              sentence too. Argh, not happy about this.
        \_ Based on what I remember from contracts (and a quick search
           on lexis), "as is" effectively cuts off any liability the
           seller may have had.
           \- the large print giveth and the small print taketh away.
              i doubt you have any legal recourse that makes sense to
              pursue. it's a matter of cost-benefit now ... i.e. is a
              bad review worth the money to the seller, how much time
              do you want to spend on this being an asspain etc.
              \_ Actually OP says that the "as is" clause was in the
                 small print which he didn't really see. This may
                 change things.
                 iirc, a statement that the ram is in "excellent
                 condition" could be viewed as an affirmative
                 representation of the quality.  Even in used
                 goods, this can give rise to a limited warranty.
                 If OP had seen or should have seen the "as is"
                 statement then the warranty would be waived, but
                 if OP couldn't have seen or had no reason to see
                 the "as is" statement, then the warranty may not
                 be waived. Contracts wasn't my best subject so
                 I could be a bit off here.
                 I agree that it isn't worth bringing a case in
                 small claims ct over this, but OP might have a
                 valid claim.
                 \- as you know even if he gets a small claims judgement
                    he will never get the sheriff to go collect for him.
                    how much money are we talking about anyway? what is
                    LOCATION of seller etc.
        \_ My location is CA, his location is WI. Cost is $40. I can spend
           $30 on small claims+serve, plus $600 plane ticket. I don't mind
           doing in on the basis of PRINCIPLE. That motherfucker needs
           to learn a lesson. On the other hand, it may be just as
           worthwhile to create eBay accounts, win, then give him bad
           ratings. The second option looks very tempting so far. How do
           I go about creating disposable eBay accounts? And will they
           affect my existing accounts?                         -op
           seller may have had. If you had asked him if the ram worked
           and he had said yes, you might be able to rescind the sale.
           Absent this, you can't really do much other than give him
           negative feedback and maybe annoy him by calling him up
           randomly and leaving irate messages on his voice mail.
              i doubt you have any legal recourse. it's a matter of
              cost-benefit now ... i.e. is a bad review worth the
              money to the seller, how much time do you want to spend
              on this being a pain in the ass etc.
           \- you may wish to read Martin Amis: The Information
           \_ The eBay way to handle this is to request a refund, and if denied
              leave negative feedback to the effect that he knew he was selling
              burnt-out goods.  He will either leave a negative feedback on
              you, or negoriate to get you to withdraw your feedback in
              exchange for a partial refund.
2017/09/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:June:02 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>