| ||||||
| 2005/5/20 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37776 Activity:nil |
5/19 http://tinyurl.com/bsyxx http://Amazon.com I have never seen so many reviews written by a dumbass with so many negative ("0 of X people found the following review helpful") feedbacks. Half of what he writes, he writes VERBATIM in his other reviews as well, like "Socialism is the root of all evils!" Maybe you can help/unhelp him out as well. |
| 2005/5/20-23 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37777 Activity:kinda low |
5/20 East Antarctica ice sheet growing:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050516/full/050516-10.html
\_ as predicted by global climate models showing global warming.
The gain in ice mass reduces ocean level rise by 0.12mm per year,
but ocean levels are still rising at 1.8mm per year. -tom
\_ Where was this predicted? I put this here not because it
"disproves" global warming--just because it was interesting.
\_ "But the panel also expected that climate change
would trigger an increase in snowfall over the
Antarctic continent, as increased evaporation from
the oceans puts more moisture into the air."
"This is a phenomenal piece of research, but it is what we
expected" -tom
\_ So as the globe warms, Antarctica will expand? Isn't
this rather contradictory? Does that mean all the
stuff about poles melting is BS?
\_ No, it means that the process isn't linear. As
ice melts, there is more moisture in the system
and thus more snow in some parts of Antarctica.
The snow doesn't compensate for the amount of
ice that melted; most of it goes to rising sea
levels. -tom
\_ There's also the whole West Antarctica problem.
It'd be interesting to see how the expanding
eastern portion of the continent compares with the
contracting western portion.
As a sidenote, I don't have a URL, but every visual
portrayal I've seen of the expected global warming
trend includes pockets of cold, which expand for
a decade or so before collapsing and popping up
elsewhere. Meanwhile the rest of the earth gets
toasty. Yay PBS!
\_ "Predict" means to say before. It doesn't mean, oh this
proves global warming because we expected it. Where was
the expectation published prior to this result?
\_ http://www.csua.org/u/c5g - bbc news link
\_ Way to post an irrelevant diagram! Where does that
image predict thickening of any Antarctic ice?
\_ right where there's a cold front off the coast
of antarctica.
\_ what are you getting at? |
| 2005/5/20-23 [Reference/Tax] UID:37778 Activity:nil |
5/20 These obscure and complicated US tax laws are really annoying.
I just discovered that this 5-bagger stock (crxl: $3.67-$19) I bought
is classified as PFIC (passive foreign investment company). I would
presume the law is made for foreign mutual funds but unfortunately,
it also hits foreign biotech companies with lots of raised cash, but
little earnings. So now instead of a capital gains rate, I have to
pay an income tax rate on gains. Not only that, I also have to pay
interest penalties to IRS, unless I pay tax on unrealized capital
gains every year. WTF?! Now I am faced with two "choices":
(1) Spend many hours to visit an accountant (TurboTax doesn't deal
with PFIC satisfactorily), file an amended tax return, emails and
phone calls to crxl to get the needed information to complete the
tax forms, in order to pay like $6000 additional tax payment, and
file election forms every year in the future as long as I own the
stock.
(2) Pretend I didn't know the company is a PFIC and not do anything,
and just pay the capital gains rate when I actually sell.
Choice (2) just seem so much more attractive. I mean, first, the
spirit of the law should not be applied to biotech stocks, and
second, why does IRS make it so complicated and time consuming, and
so much work to pay them additional taxes.
PFIC tax laws:
link:tinyurl.com/ajptl
Anyone has any experience dealing with PFICs?
\_ Just do (2). If the IRS sends you a bill for the remainder just
pay that. The cost of dealing with this on your own, i.e. the
cost of hiring an acountant/tax attorney can be deducted, however...
With the IRS being as emasculated today under the Bush
administration, I think they'll just be happy to receive a check...
\_ Thanks. I "transferred" (sold and rebought) the stock from
my regular account to my Roth/IRA accounts. I decided to take
a tax hit now (or rather, next year) rather than let this tax
issue fester while I continue to hold on to the stock. |
| 2005/5/20-23 [Consumer, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:37779 Activity:nil |
5/20 DO NOT buy a Hitachi HD!!! Their return procedure sucks. I returned
my drive 2 wks ago and they still haven't shipped my replacement.
Service is just abysmal. FUCK HITACHI!!!
\_ Just wait. I remember it took a couple weeks from the day
I dropped it off at the post office.
\_ SEVERAL WEEKS? Western Digital gives you a new one the next day,
even before you returned the defective one (provided that you
give them a credit card). If you return the defective one within
30 days they won't charge your card. It's called the Advanced
RMA. Face it. Hitachi sucks.
\_ Well, Hitachi RMA sucks, in terms of taking as long as
four weeks ("14 business days" + shipping). But I still
trust Hitachi most in terms of reliability. The
difference may not be that great for desktop drives, but
Hitachi/IBM makes superior notebook drives. |
| 2005/5/20-23 [Science, Academia/GradSchool] UID:37780 Activity:moderate |
5/20 I read that the number of computer science majors is shrinking,
and the number of business majors is shrinking, but the number of
people attending college is growing. What is everyone going into
these days? Bio? Poly Sci?
\_ Healthcare fields? I heard that nurses make as much as senior
CS engineers these days and they work four days a week.
\_ A Male Nurse? FOCKER?
\_ Yup, Gaylord Focker. Besides, we've seen male nurse on ER and
such.
\_ law, business
\_ OP says the number of business majors is shrinking.
\_ This is the new America. College networking good. Edumacation
bad. God good. Science bad.
\_ Bio is probably a good bet. We will need a lot more doctors in
the next 15+ years. Maybe some people are going into other eng
or science fields. I was MSE as ug but have been a coder for many
years and I think that doing a real science is far more interesting
than coding.
years and I think real science is far more interesting than cs.
\_ I don't think bio in terms of doctors, but in terms of
biotechnology. I think hard science is more interesting, BUT
there is a lot of competition for dollars. You have to slave
away as a grad student and at the end of it you may or may
not have a good job. It is so much easier to, say, go to law
school. There are too many scientists competing for too
little money and the rewards for being a scientist are small
but for a few.
\_ Biotech seems like a big hype job to me. Sure it is
interesting and all, but most of work in the field is
low pay lab rat type stuff.
Funny you should mention LS. I'm currently in LS and I
find it much harder than grad school (I'm enjoying LS
more than grad school, though). You are spot on about
the money; it is far easier to make money as a lawyer
than as a scientist/engineer (which is why I'm in LS).
\_ what law school. What was your UG GPA and LSAT?
Thanks.
\_ gpa 3.03, lsat 168. I'm going to santa clara
b/c it is the closest to my house (I'm in sj).
\_ Where did you go to grad school and in what field? |
| 2005/5/20 [Uncategorized] UID:37781 Activity:nil |
5/20 Does the FF error reporter actually work for anyone? When I allow it
to report, it just sites there saying "in Queue" all day until I give
and close it. Also, I've notice that FF 1.04 crashes from time to
time on http://gamespot.com. |
| 2005/5/20 [Politics/Domestic] UID:37782 Activity:high |
5/20 Turns out Newsweek was right, just as I predicted:
http://csua.org/u/c4r
\_ No, they didn't. The article you link to does not confirm flushing
the Koran.
\_ The "flushing of the Koran" has been floating around the press
for literally years. The Newsweek story said that it was in the
upcoming Southern Command report. This doesn't confirm or
contradict the Newsweek story. It's just another data point.
\_ Ummm, no. This is exactly what the military already admitted
to, except that it further specifies that they solved the
problem.
\_ Yup. No more Koran flushing. We've taken to chaining taxi
drivers up by the wrists.
http://csua.org/u/c4s
\_ Quick, change the subject! Not to meantion, this is from
3 years ago, so it hardly counts as "we've taken to"
(present tense). However, yes, I agree that's horrible,
and those involved should be punished. It also nothing
to do with the topic.
\_ What exactly is the topic in your mind? That newsweek
is the root cause of our bad image? As long as we are
holding people in secret, these actions will continue.
Do I have proof of that? No. But the assurance would
be to let third party observers in, not to blindly trust
Pentagon reports.
\_ The topic in my mind was ascertaining the truth
for the statement "Turns out Newsweek was right,
of the statement "Turns out Newsweek was right,
just as I predicted."
\_ So we've solved the koran flushing problem. Okay,
how about the slightly broader torturing innocent
people problem?
\_ Start a new thread, dumbass.
\_ Nice job censoring my reply.
\_ It wasn't censoring. Ilya overwrote like three big chunks.
Stop feeling special.
\_ "We have received no credible and specific allegations" of
Koran desecration or Koran mistreatment conducted by
US personnel at Gitmo. -White House
Koran desecration or Koran mistreatment conducted by US personnel
at Gitmo." -White House
\_ Translation: "No one took pictures this time. Praise Jeebus"
The International Committee of the Red Cross documented what it
called credible information about U.S. personnel disrespecting
or mishandling Korans at the Guantanamo detention facility and
pointed it out to the Pentagon in confidential reports during
2002 and early 2003, an ICRC spokesman said Wednesday. -Tribune
Damn that liberal media, printing the truth again! |
| 2005/5/20-23 [Uncategorized] UID:37783 Activity:nil |
5/20 I've noticed that FF 1.04 crashes from time to time on http://gamespot.com. Anybody else see this? \_ You sure it's not an extension you installed? I had an old version of flashblock and it was doing that. |
| 2005/5/20 [Recreation/Sports, Recreation/Computer/Games, Industry/Jobs] UID:37784 Activity:high |
5/20 For the person who was asking how to best answer the question,
"What's your weekness?" during the interview. IMHO, the best
way to answer that is to talk about how you'd like to be more
proficient in an area that you are _not_ interviewing for.
For example, if you are interviewing for a backend position,
then talk about how you are not as strong in front end design
but would love to get more exposure to it. Or for non-managedment
engineering positions in general, it is also okay to say you are
not comfortable enough speak in front of hundredes or thousdands
of people but you would like to take some public speech classes
if the company can sponsor it (it is important to quatify the
number of audience; you want to point out you are totally comfortable
doing a technical presentation/review for your peers).
This answer usually leads to discussion about company's education
benefits, which is what you want to find out anyway.
\_ The best answer is "I don't have any weaknesses"
\_ I'd rather someone blew off the question than respond this way
\_ No, that's the worst answer.a
\_ I dunno -- the last thread about this had some pretty messed
answers....
\_ It's not the worst answer if it is true. If you're good at
your job and you have good people skills to boot plus tons
of experience in the relevant positions then why would you
have any weaknesses? I mean, seriously, what the hell are you
supposed to say? I don't have a good backhand in tennis?
I don't play golf? I mean, seriously, wtf ARE you supposed to
say if you have 10+ years of experience in the field, worked
on various projects as follower or leader, have had a pretty
good track record on those projects, given lectures on the
field, published papers, etc. etc.. If you are the best
candidate for the job, why SHOULD you have any weaknesses?
\_ If you think you're perfect, that's a weekness.
\_ Perhaps if you think you are NOT perfect for the job,
now that's a weakness. If you don't think you're perfect
for the job, then why are you applying? Also, who said
anything about thinking that you yourself are perfect?
Not having a weakness != perfection.
\_ Okay, I'll emend that. If you don't think you have
weaknesses, you're lying to yourself and others.
\_ So in other words, you don't believe that people
can be good at what they do. That's an interesting
attitude.
\_ No. I believe that people who are never
introspective are dangerous. I believe that
people who don't find they have things to
better in themselves are stunted and boring.
\_ Being introspective is one thing, being
weak at something is another. Don't mix
the two. You're confusing self assessment
with being weak. Self assessment leads to
improvement, even in things you are strong
at. It's akin to saying that Tiger Woods
has a "weak" short game. His weak short
game still blows 99% of the population
out of the water. He can improve on it,
(heck, he can improve on all aspects of
his game), but I wouldn't call it a
weakness, especially if you're applying
for a job. Seriously, this is one of those
dumb corporate interview questions that
should be banned. It's a dumb question and
leads to no real answers.
\_ Sounds like you're reading too much into
the question. This is exactly what they're
asking about. Things you'd like to be
better at. Maybe it's bad terminology,
but you're being really obtuse.
\_ If you asked Tiger Woods his biggest
weakness and he said "My short game"
it would make plenty of sense. How his
short game compares to mine is not the
question.
\_ my biggest weakness is not being able to find more time to <stick
in something irrelevant to work>. For example, I'm unable to find
more time to read fine American literatures, take French/cooking,
class, and do things that'll make me a better rounded person.
Heck they don't give a shit how well-rounded you are, so why not.
\_ The purpose of this question is to bait you into revealing a real
show stopper flaw, or see if you dodge the question or throw up a smoke
screen answer. As long as you answer it honestly and don't throw out
a juicy flaw like stealing other people's lunchs from the company
refrigerator, you are probably fine. -ax
\_isn't hacking code and eating Doritos making you more well-rounded
\_ Only in the chiapet sense. |
| 2005/5/20 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37785 Activity:high |
5/20 So we've solved the koran flushing problem. Okay,
how about the slightly broader torturing innocent
people problem?
\_ Start a new thread, dumbass.
\_ Okay. Here ya go.
\_ So who's innocent again?
\_ According to AI, roughly 90% of the people we round up.
Did you read the NYT article: http://csua.org/u/c4s
\_ Oh yes, I've read it. I've read people call things "torture"
that I wouldn't call torture. And then there's the question
of determining innocence without interrogation, etc.
\_ You mean the stuff that doesn't cause death or major organ
failure? Some whiners actually call that torture!
\_ I remember there was a news article that the prisoners
called female interrogators stripping, rubbing their
breasts against their backs, sitting on their laps, and
commenting on their apparent erection torture. Gee, where
can I get training to become a failed terrorist?
\_ Preach it brother! Interrogation is a wonderful tool that
should be used more often. And what does not kill them
makes them stronger, so we're helping them. Another tool
we should use is trial by fire. God will save them if they
are innocent.
\_ I remember there was a news article about someone
complaining about being raped. Gee, where can I
myself raped?
\_ well duh, that's obvious. Get the foes to fight like a real army,
wearing uniforms and all that.
\_ Do you know that we do roundups. Go into a community gathering
and grab 50 people because 1 we want _might_ be there. There's
no 4th amendment in Iraq or Afghanistan. Hell, there's no due
process at all with the people in our prisons there. We defeated
the army that wears uniforms. The people attacking us now are
regular Iraqis who we went there to "liberate". Yes yes yes,
there may be some foreign influence, but they need the support
of locals to operate. And when we do shit like this, it doesn't
help make them not want to support those foreign elements.
\_ Just because they act like psychotic thugs doesn't mean we
should. Ever heard of the moral high ground? And I believe op
said "innocent", like that Canadian dude we delivered to the
Syrian mukhabarat or whatever they're called because they
aren't so restrictive about genital-clamping people with
similar names as suspected terrorists. -John
\_ I think one aspect of this mess that's often ignored is the treatment
of American citizen prisoners in American prisons. All this stuff
that generated international outrage -- that's the stuff that
happens in American prisons every day, and passes mostly without
comment from American media. -- ilyas
\_ Prove it.
\_ This is fairly well documented, you can stroll over to
http://aclu.org, for instance. In fact, much as I am not fond of
some of the stances ACLU takes, I have to give them credit
for immediately linking prisoner abuses abroad with prisoner
abuses at home. -- ilyas
\_ Okay, I'll check it out. Thanks for the pointer (though
perhaps not for the news). |
| 2005/5/20-23 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:37786 Activity:nil |
5/20 Reading tech support stories. This page is by far the funniest
I've seen yet.
http://rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_smoke.shtml
\_ Heh.
* Customer: "Hi. I have a Macintosh. I had a disk that I wanted to
put in the computer, but it wouldn't go, so I pushed harder, and
it wouldn't go, so I pushed REALLY hard, and now it's making funny
noises. I think there was a disk in there already."
* Tech Support: "Unplug the computer, now."
* Customer: "I don't want to lose my paper!"
* Tech Support: "Unplug the computer right now. Your paper is lost.
Your floppy drive is lost. If you're lucky the Mac will be OK.
Unplug it now."
* Customer: "But I don't want to lose my paper!"
After a few more repetitions of this, I heard someone, presumably the
client's roommate, scream. Then I heard the dorm fire alarm go off in
the background. Those things are awful loud, but she didn't seem
interested in unplugging the computer, fleeing the fire in her room,
or anything else other than arguing with me. Figuring I was doing her
a favor, I hung up. |
| 2005/5/20-23 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37787 Activity:moderate |
5/20 Has any republic in the history of the world lasted longer than 300
years?
\_ Is the English Commonwealth a republic?
\_ No. There is a monarch.
\_ To be precise, it's a Constitutional Monarchy.
\_ If you mean 'country' then sure. If you mean 'continuous
government' I'm not so sure.
\_ I mean continuous government.
\_ The Chow dynasty in ancient China lasted ~800 years under a
continuous govt. But it's not a republic.
continuous govt. But it's not a republic. Switzerland has been a
republic as the Swiss Confederation since 1291.
\_ Confederation, not Republic :) -John
\_ According to http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook
(yeah, the CIA), it's a federal republic. I don't know what
the difference is.
\_ Uh, erm, but they haven't broken our yodel code! -John
\_ Zhou Dynasty had total of 23 successions (e.g. 24 Emperors),
most numerous successions in China's 5000 years history.
In many ways number of successions is a better guage than
number of years when one judge the length of regimes.
\_ Rome.
\_ 510 BC to 44 BC according to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_republic
But wasn't the period from 133 BC on pretty much a mess?
\_ The Thousand Year Reich lasted 12 years. |
| 2005/5/20-21 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:37788 Activity:kinda low 80%like:37797 |
5/20 If I want a little basement for my house (to put wine, or hot servers
to keep them cool), is it possible to do so? How much does it cost
and what are some complications to it? Thanks.
\_ Most houses in California (at least recent ones) are built on a
slap of concrete. They dig, fill with concrete, then build on top
of that slap. It'd be impractical to try to put a basement there.
\_ Where do you put your hot wife? |
| 2005/5/20-22 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:37789 Activity:moderate |
5/20 If Germans heil to Hitler, does Hitler heil to anyone?
\_ He hails Victory. Sieg Heil!
\_ Well, Hitler is German, so he must heil himself. But, when
Hitler is heil'd he must always return the hiel. Therefore
Hitler finds himself in an infinite recursive heil loop.
\_ Austrian, actually, but good theory. "Mein Leben!" -John
\_ no better place to be recursive than hell.
\_ When he heiled himself in the mirror, he found himself in two
infinite recursive loops.
\_ That's when he shot himself.
\_ This sounds suspiciously similar to the Al Bundy theory on
garage sales.
\_ I never watched Married With Children, what was the Al
Bundy garage sale theory?
\_ The theory involves 'the final idiot.'
\_ Sounds like the dot com stock market strategy.
\_ Cross-reference http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086450
"Heil Myself!" -John |
| 2005/5/20-23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37790 Activity:nil |
5/20 Headline of the day: "Bush promises probe into Saddam underwear
pictures" (on Yahoo! news)
Sadly now amended:
http://babelogue.citypages.com:8080/canderson/2005/05/20#23a505 |
| 2005/5/20-23 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:37791 Activity:kinda low |
5/20 Help. Sometimes on my XP, Hibernation fails. Worse, when I suspect
for 1-2 hours and it tries to hibernate afterwards, it occasionally
fails and keeps the laptop on. Why is this happening and how do I
fix it? Thanks.
\_ A real answer: The most likely reason for hibernation not working
is due to network activity through one of your network interfaces.
Attempt to disable network interfaces before hibernating and see
if that affects it. If it does, then you need to mess around with
the network driver settings and make sure that it is properbly
power managed by your computer.
Alternative reasons why hibernate fails:
Your display driver (yes
the display driver for your display subsystem also depends on
ACPI) is buggy. Either get an updated version or mess around
with the driver's settings.
Your BIOS needs to be upgraded.
Hibernation feature is unreliable (at times you cannot get it
to come out of hibernate and forces you to restart) but if the
problem persists, most likely it is one of the above problems.
\_ The hibernation feature is not reliable. Turn it off.
\_ You're an idiot.
\_ Actually, you're the idiot. Many laptop bioses are
broken and resuming from hibernation is a tricky art
that doesn't always work. After multiple hibernations,
even hibernation itself may fail.
\_ Yes, some BIOSes aren't up to snuff. Do you know that's
the case for the op? Just telling him that "hibernation is
broken" is useless and a waste of space.
\_ Your brain is not reliable. Turn it off.
\_ Pot, kettle, black. 'nuff said.
\_ Ah, I can see your brain is off now. Good job.
\_ Wow, your singlemindedness if impressive.
I would say keep it up, but it sounds like
nothing is going to get through your thick
skull in any case. Poor guy.
\_ Why not turn this feature off, reclaim some disk space, and
use suspend instead?
\_ I need to hibernate in cases that I need to swap battery
(and I tried swapping with suspend and as expected, no luck).
Also suspend doesn't save as much power as hibernate. ok thx.
\_ Suspend consumes battery, hibernate does not.
\_ What do you mean "fails"? You can set your options so that it
doesn't go from suspend->hibernate in the power options.
\_ Have you checked if there is a BIOS update for your system? |
| 2005/5/20-23 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:37792 Activity:nil |
5/20 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/20/politics/main697013.shtml Bush says "the way to honor [Pope JP] is to continue to build a culture of life where the strong protect the weak." Is that why we're torturing Iraqis and bombing civilians, so that they will not terrorize other people? \_ No, dumbass, it's the reason why we keep brain-dead people alive against the wishes of those with the power-of-attorney and also why we are defunding stem-cell research so that we'll be behind every other industrialized country in biotech in the near future. The torturing Iraqis and bombing civilians has to do with this nation being good Evangelical Christians in general. Your propoganda fu is weak. |
| 2005/5/20-23 [Computer/Theory] UID:37793 Activity:nil |
5/20 I flunked calculus and now I'm struggling in my network class. In
the lecture, the professor says p is the probability that a node in
ethernet sends, N is the number of nodes, and the following is the
slotted Aloha efficiency:
N*p*(1-p)^(N-1) = ~1/e = 0.37
I completely understand how he setup the equation, but got lost
trying to derive it. He said it's junior high math and hand waived
it, but I'd like to know how you do this. Any pointer to old
calculus stuff would be appreciated, thanks.
\_ http://robotics.eecs.berkeley.edu/~wlr/12203/ethernet%201.pdf
Ok fine, the slide is a mistake and he forgot lim
\_ Also, it's (1-p)^(N-1) in the slide.
And he didn't forget lim. It's an approximation. As N
increases, S approaches 1/e. His notation's a little strange,
but taking the lim would be even stranger.
\_ As stated, this equation is simply untrue (what if N = 100?).
-- ilyas
\_ http://robotics.eecs.berkeley.edu/~wlr/12203/ethernet%201.pdf
Ok fine, the slide is a mistake and he forgot lim
\_ Also, it's (1-p)^(N-1) in the slide.
\_ ... yeah. Kind of important. -- ilyas
And he didn't forget lim. It's an approximation. As N
increases, S approaches 1/e. His notation's a little strange,
but taking the lim would be even stranger. |
| 2005/5/20-31 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:37794 Activity:nil 78%like:37291 |
5/20 Senior Java Developer position open in Pleasanton:
/csua/pub/jobs/RHI-IT - jthoms |
| 2005/5/20-22 [Uncategorized] UID:37795 Activity:high |
5/20 "In the United States if there's a terrible report, people don't riot
and kill other people. And you can't excuse what they did because of
the mistake -- you know, you can't blame it all on Newsweek."
-Laura Bush
\_ Another entry in the long "Uh, duh" column of public statements.
\_ Well they DO riot and kill other people. Rodney King etc.
\_ Uhm, if you can't tell the difference between the religious
fundamental culture of the Middle East and the United States,
then I have to wonder how in god's name you got into Cal in
the first place.
\_ Affirmative action. |
| 5/20 |