Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:April:28 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/4/28 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:37389 Activity:kinda low
4/28    Almighty MOTD:  I have a FreeBSD 5.3-R box running on an Adaptec 2810
        raid controller--the setup consists of one big raid-5 setup using 4
        disks on an 8-port controller.  Can I just add another 4 drives to
        this controller into the same raid-5 array?  Can FreeBSD figure out
        the larger array?  -John
        \_ Yes, just add in the disks, reconfigure the controller, and reformat
           from the OS.
           \_ Ergh, what if this is my boot partition?  -John
              \_ Why the fuck did you make your RAID the boot partition??
                 If it is, you're hozed. You'll need to reinstall the system
                 from scratch in order to add disks instead of doing a backup
                 of your RAID before upgrading.
              \_ #l
2005/4/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37390 Activity:high
        Dubya asks networks and cable to show prime-time 8:30 EDT news
        conference, the first prime-time conference since last year.
        The topic last year:  Iraq.
        The topic this year:  Social Security.
        Yes, reporters will probably ask about the Duelfer report, and I
        predict Dubya will say "Removing Saddam was the right thing to do.
        The world is safer without Saddam Hussein.  The people of Iraq no
        longer suffer under the rule of a ruthless dictator."  If reporters
        persist, Dubya will say, "By removing Saddam, we have given the people
        of Iraq a taste of freedom.  Freedom is on the march.  Freedom has
        spread to the Ukraine ... to the people of Lebanon ... and Libya saw
        the example we made out of Saddam and gave up their nukular program."
        If asked specifically about the lack of WMDs, Dubya will say,
        "I always supported reforms to our intelligence services, and I have
        informed members of Congress to take the recommendations of the 9/11
        Commission seriously, so that the events of that day will never replay
        "Was it worth it?  Sure it was worth it.  Ask the person who got his
        hands cut off because he opposed Saddam.  Ask the Kurds who were gassed
        to death because they wanted freedom.  Of course it was worth it, and
        if I had to do it all over again, I would."
        I'm sure you can think of more.
        \_ What is your fucking point. Yes he'll say things that you predicted.
           And that is the appeal to an average American-- a President who
           sticks to his guns, a President who is repetitive, a President
           with whom he can relate more to [than an intellect]. The fact
           of the matter is, most academics think he sucks, but the average
           Joe doesn't think so. The average Joe selects the President, and
           the average Joe prefers George W Bush, not some uncharming
           intellectual dweeb.
           \_ You haven't seen any polls in the last three months.  This
              president being popular is a myth.
                 \_ So where are the Vietnam-like protestors? Where are the
                    tomato throwers? Bush may not be popular but he is a lot
                    more popular than say, Nixon.
                    \_ There have been tons of protestors.  If you haven't
                       seen them, you're watching too much tv news and not
                       enough newspapers.  Also, the protestors in vietnam-era
                       were probably a similar proportion of the population.
                       Minds are changing.  Majorities don't build in protest.
                       They build alongside them.
                    \_ whoah there, nellie.   Here comes the "at least we're
                       not as bad as Saddam" argument again.
                       \_ The whole reason we have Dubya is "at least he's
                          not as bad as Kerry" although a lot of people are
                          having second thoughts
           \_ The average Joe still thinks there were WMDs in Iraq.
              \_ The average Joe probably couldn't point to Iraq on a fucking
                 map or tell you what the difference between Iran and Iraq is
                 aside from a letter of the alphabet.
                 \_ Wait, there's a difference?
        \_ Keep laughing. The Average Joe selects our Idiot In Chief, and will
           continue to do so until you stop making fun of his low intelligence
           and until you DO something about it, like education and awareness.
           \_ You think I'm laughing?
              Once again, the Average Joe still thinks there were WMDs in
              Iraq.  That Dubya hasn't been loud and clear on the facts of
              the primary reason we went to Iraq is the greatest tragedy of
              his presidency.
        \_ None of the reporters asked about the lack of WMDs.  Why didn't
           some brave reporter ask:
           "Mr. President, you are known as a plainspoken man, who prides
           directness and honesty over long-winded explanations.
           From what your intelligence people are telling you now, did Saddam
           have weapons of mass destruction or not?  Please don't give me a
           long-winded explanation:  Please answer with a Yes or No.  If the
           intelligence folks are not sure, please tell me which they think is
           more likely.
           In a Washington Post / ABC News poll take March 13 this year, 56% of
           Americans say they think Saddam did have WMDs." -op
           \_ According to Tenet it was a "slam dunk" so there you go.
2005/4/28 [Politics/Domestic] UID:37392 Activity:nil 72%like:37387
4/27    Meet your ideal Southern Belle today!
        [link that might lead to further Republican breeding removed]
        And for Queer Republicans:
2005/4/28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:37393 Activity:kinda low
4/28    "In FY04 the U. S. Government spent $322 Billion of your money on
         interest payments* to the holders of the National Debt. Compare that
         to NASA at $15 Billion, Education at $61 Billion, and Department of
         Transportation at $56 Billion."
        So who are the "holders of the National Debt."? Bankers?
        \_ Central banks of other countries (Japan, China, ...)?
            \_ What is the interest rate? I mean, it sounds to me like it's
               worth investing your money at banks that lend to U.S.
               \_ Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money!
               \_ Not very high interest.  I think new T-bills are around 4.3%.
               \_ one of the lowest you can get. but sure it is a lot safer
                  to finance the US govt. as opposed that of some other country
                  like Argentina..
        \_ And how much more was borrowed, leading to larger interest payments
           the next year?  Isn't borrowing to pay for your interest a sign
           that you're on the verge of bankruptcy?
           \_ no.
        \_ Heh, the US should declare bankruptcy and be absolved of all debt.
        \_ Read "Interface" by Neal Stephenson
         \_ Well by a pen name.  And that book really feels like it is missing
            about 100 pages in the middle.
2005/4/28 [Uncategorized] UID:37394 Activity:nil
4/28    Don't like your employee? Feed him to the lion:
2005/4/28 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:37395 Activity:nil
4/28    Company bought me a  port switcher such that I can use one
        setup to switch between a FreeBSD and Windows machine. Switcher works
        perfectly for windows but I am having problems with it under
        FreeBSD.Problem seems to be related to the fact that I need to
        us a usb-ps2 converter to hook my mouse up to the converter.
        FreeBSD seems to have problems identiying the mouse.
        I see the same behavior when I  just plug it into the ps2 port
        directly. Is this a linux kernel issue perhaps?
        Wish the company had spent the extra $50 to get a switcher
        that was usb instead of ps2. -- lonely linux geek in a windoze realm
        \_ Do you mean FreeBSD kernel?
           -- Yes. FreeBSD 5.3.
2005/4/28 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:37396 Activity:nil
4/28    Want to date hot big boob nice face great body Southern Republican
        Belles and maybe even convert them to liberals? Now it's easier than
        Click on top 2 sponsored links (Conservative Match), or links to the
        right (Conservative Singles, Republican Meet People). Check them
        out, some of them are REALLY HOT (unlike our studios, mal-nutrient,
        non-blond Berkeley women). No wonder they are out-reproducing
        us evil moralless vegan gay/les-loving liberals.
        \_ Is Conservative Singles ( really for
           conservatives?  Looking at the way those women post, they don't look
           like conservatives.
        \_ Conservative Match requires membership.
           \_ I wouldn't mind. But how much do they donate to the GOP?
        \_ Salon/Nerve girls are much cuter.
2005/4/28 [Uncategorized] UID:37397 Activity:nil
4/29    Has anyone bought stuff from Amazon China ( before? How
        much do they charge for shipping? Thx.
2005/4/28 [Uncategorized] UID:37398 Activity:nil
4/29    incests are illegal on the motd.
        \_ Is that what yermom said when she told you to withdraw?
2005/4/28 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Health/Sleeping] UID:37399 Activity:kinda low
4/28    Woman convicted of rape for giving sleeping man a blowjob:
        \_ how fat was she?
        \_ This is ignorant, but yet oddly intelligent. He got paid $6,355
           for getting head, does it get any better?
           \_ Yeah, but you have to go down in history (no pun intended)
              as the wierdo who called the police for getting a blowjob.
        \_ a Norwegian friend tells me he'd actually have to have reported her
           for the police to do anything.  This doesn't sound like a good way
           to encourage more in the future from anyone.
        \_ Nine months of jail time is equality?  If it were a man raping a
           woman, would it be nine months only?
           \_ for just going down on her instead of penetrating?
           \_ if a man gave a woman oral while she was sleeping and claimed
                that she consented, that doesn't sound too outrageous.
           \_ Who knows, we don't know what the standard sentences are in
              Norway, do we? Usually in Europe, sentences are much lighter
              than in the US.
              \_ Gee.  I thought sentences in the US are already too light.
                 \_ Which is why our prison population continues to increase
                    as crime rates go down.
                    \_ You mean, as we put criminals in jail, the crime
                       rate goes down?  holy crap!
                       \_ Soylent Green...Soylent Green is *people*!!!!
2005/4/28 [Uncategorized] UID:37400 Activity:nil 54%like:39329
4/29    What's the difference between alt.stories.incest and  Thx.
2005/4/28 [Finance/Banking, Finance] UID:37401 Activity:high
        Look at the purple "National Debt Corrected for Inflation", and look
        at how it skyrocketted after mid 80s. What happened?
        \_ Reagan.
           \_ But he's such a charming and honest looking guy!
              \_ But he won the Cold War (by outspending the Soviets)!
              \_ But he won the Cold War!  In a race with the Soviets on "who
                 could spend the most on the biggest nuclear stockpile /
                 conventional arms", the U.S. won!
                 \_ And because of that there's little threat of MAD.
                    But do you care? No. Because it did not happen.
                 \_ Reagan did not end the cold war. The Russian people
                    ended the cold war. They got sick of it and their
                    lameass government before we did, that is all.
                    \_ The Red Sox didn't win the World Series. The Cardinals
                       just didn't feel like scoring enough runs, that is all.
                       \_ If the Cardinals had risen up, overthrown their
                          coach and owner and declared a forfeit, your
                          analogy might hold. But they did not.
           \_ Yet another data that proves that Ronald Reagan is one of the
              most charming criminals in the world. DEATH TO RONALD REAGAN!!!
2005/4/28-30 [Academia/GradSchool] UID:37402 Activity:insanely high
4/28    Why is there so much opposition from liberals to a high school exit
        exam? Supposedly, 83% of kids have passed it. I know it is bad for
        self-esteem when a kid is a fuckup, but maybe failing the exam
        will help that lower fifth realize they need to work harder. The
        funniest comment I heard was the exit exams will hurt graduation
        rates. Yeah, I guess they will. If a kid can't pass an easy exam
        they have been preparing 3 years for then maybe they shouldn't
        graduate until they do. Why are these people teaching our children?!
        \_ Uhm, why would you need an exit exam in the first place?
           Instead of making kids pass an exit exam before graduation, we
           should just make the classes harder. We don't need an
           exit exam to get a degree from Berkeley, we just need to
           pass all of our classes. -moderate
           \_ Lots of universities do have exit exams.
              \_ Interesting, which ones? What do they test on?
                 \_ Well, for example, UC Santa Cruz. It's a
                    department-level requirement rather than a university
                    one. The exam covers general knowledge, but a list of
                    study materials is provided ahead of time.
           \_ How do you enforce that all classes meet a certain threshold of
              quality and grading levels are meaningful across schools?  Hell,
              forget K-12.  How do you do that at the college level, so that
              graduates of 'fraud with a A- GPA knows as much as a Cal grad?
              \_ Uhm, give more money to schools so that they can hire better
                 people to A) Administrate them and B) Teach the courses in
                 the K-12 level? As for the college level, in order to pass
                 a compsci class you need to at least know how to program to
                 a minimal level of proficiency to pass, at least at Cal. As
                 for other schools, well, the ones that don't matter and have
                 easy classes have bad reps and nobody cares about them. The
                 ones that have easy classes (like Stanford and Harvard) have
                 a built-in selection mechanism to ensure only bright people
                 get in or their parents have enough money to ensure that their
                 kids have a minimal threshold of education to start off with,
                 so society takes care of them. Anyway, if you want better
                 HS graduates what you need to do is change the culture and
                 the curriculum. I don't get how a standardized test achieves
                 either. In a sense, we already have a standardized exit exams
                 for college bound high school students, the SAT, so an
                 additional test of that sort would be redundant. If you want
                 better schools you first need to get better administrators
                 and second you need to get better teachers and third you need
                 to get better infrastructure. All of the above require lots
                 of money, which is why prep schools and other private
                 institutions blow public schools out of the water in general.
                 Also, if you take a look at school districts that are part
                 self funding like the one in Contra Costa County you see
                 a world of difference. It's actually pretty simple, want
                 better schools? Increase school funding. The question is,
                 do you want to pay?
                 \_ The money arguement is provably bullshit.  If you look
                    at the spending per student at different schools around
                    the state(which I just did for my home state), you'll
                    see shitty, crime-ridden inner city schools often spend
                    more money per student than the suburban schools, which
                    in my state gave the prep schools a run for their money
                    in terms of test scores and admission to top colleges.
                    \_ You're forgetting the amount of money that schools
                       raise on their own through fundraisers plus the
                       infrastructure that parents contribute to the schools
                       in suburban communities (i.e. the PTA in suburbs is
                       MUCH more active than in inner cities and a LOT more
                       people are privately funding things behind the
                       scenes). The reason why inner city schools get more
                       money is because they have to deal with a lot more
                       problems, i.e. security. A suburban public high school
                       in a decent neighborhood will equate to an inner city
                       prep school. You can't simply look at the raw numbers
                       that the state provides you. Kids in suburbs cost a
                       lot more to raise per capita than kids in inner cities.
                       Parents have the means and are willing to spend that
                       kind of money on kids in suburbs, but parents in inner
                       cities do not. Again, it's just a function of money. If
                       you want higher test scores and smarter kids, be willing
                       to spend the money to upgrade their environment. Again,
                       are you willing to pay?
                       \_ As usual, you miss the point.  The point is that
                          *no* amount of money will solve the problem of
                          bad inner city schools.  The kids in the public
                          school I went to got higher test scores because they
                          were in a culture that encouraged academic
                          performance.  Most kids I knew were read to by their
                          parrents before they even got to school, which
                          gives us an advantage that no amount of spending
                          can make up for.  I'm not proposing a solution,
                          I'm just saying that lack of money is simply not
                          the problem.  Calling greater parental involvement
                          in schools "infrastructure", as though you can just
                          add that to a town budget is just plain stupid.
                          \_ Uhm, no, you miss the point of my previous post.
                             I never said that just adding in money will result
                             in better schools. I said that you need to change
                             the administration and the teachers and the
                             infrastructure of schools to get higher test
                             scores. In order to do that you have to pour in
                             resources into the schools, which basically
                             equates to money. Obviously pouring money into
                             an existing infrastructure that doesn't work
                             will not work. I'm saying you have to change
                             the system. Changing the system requires a lot
                             of money and a lot of political will power. The
                             question is, are you willing to spend time/money
                             on this problem? It's also naive of you to think
                             that good schools can't make a difference in
                             a young person's life. Ever see the move
                             Stand and Deliver? It's a true story. I actually
                             was close to the district that Garfield High was
                             in. Thinking that Latino or Black kids can't learn
                             Calculus was wrong and was racist. Give the schools
                             the right infrastructure, and you can turn out
                             inner city kids that can ace the AP Calc exam.
                             Case closed.
                             \_ I think the point here is that the inner
                                city schools receive about the same
                                funding, so why does their infrastructure
                                not work and yet in suburban schools it
                                does? Sometimes this happens at different
                                campuses in the same school district (e.g.
                                LA Unified).
                 \_ Grade inflation is rampant throughout higher ed, including
                    at Berkeley.
                    50% of Berkeley undergraduate grades are A's, 35% are
                    B's, and less than 5% are D's or F's.  -tom
                    B's, and less than 5% were D's or F's.  -tom
                    \_ The grade distribution never looked like this for
                       the classes I took (mostly math). Didn't the
                       Physics Dept. mandate a bell curve with 50% at C+?
                       If you scored the mean on a test you didn't usually
                       get an A (or even B+). That might be different in,
                       say, anthropology or classics where I got A's
                       without really trying.
                       \_ They note that there are differences across
                          disciplines.  -tom
                          \_ Indeed. They do mention that in Physics just
                             15-20% of students earn A's. "The Physics
                             department began monitoring lower division
                             GPAs at one point when it was discovered that
                             instructors were giving mostly B's."
                    \_ Robert Holub hosted the event. Any relationship to tom?
                       \_ No.  -tom
                    \_ Definitely good news for people who had a hard time
                       graduating, like t** and p**
                    \_ "A significant increase in the GPA occurred during the
                        Vietnam War when students received a draft deferment
                        if they remained in good academic standing."
                       Who says draft is a bad thing now? :)
                 \_ The SAT is for entrance to college, not graduation
                    from high school. The idea behind an exit exam is that
                    it gives more value to a HS diploma and is also a
                    metric that schools/teachers can use to see how well
                    the students are doing at all levels, not just
                    college-bound students.
                    \_ So my question to you is, why not just make the SAT
                       a metric that employers can utilize to gauge students?
                       If you are so concerned about gauging the metric
                       of the average H.S. grad, make them take an existing
                       standardized test. Why should the state take up the
                       burden of creating another standardized test? Anyway,
                       companies like UPS already utilize standardized testing
                       to screen applicants, making the whole point moot.
                       \_ It's not for the employers to 'screen', but a
                          metric for the schools. They could use the SAT,
                          but they have no control over it.
                \_ Exactly... you say bad colleges get bad reputations.
                   That doesn't work at the high school level. They are
                   providing public services and need to be held to some
                   minimum standard. They can never be equal but there's
                   no way to enforce "making classes harder" other than
                   having harder standardized tests.
                 \_ How do you know if schools are getting better or worse
                    without testing?  What metric do you propose?  How does
                    that metric compare to direct testing of the output?
        \_ Perhaps you should give your examples of "liberal opposition".
           The progressive take on this is not necessarily that exit exams
           are bad, but that standardization with negative reinforcement is
           not the way to help an ailing school district.
           \_ I gave my examples. Bad for self-esteem and lower graduation
              rates. Obviously not all liberals feel this way, but all of
              the opposition is indeed liberal.
              \_ I meant examples of liberal opposition.  Not the factors to
                 which you say they object.  How 'bout an article or two?
                 Transcript to a news show?
                 \_ Find them yourself. It's easy enough. It's in the
                    headlines right now.
                    \_ It's your argument, man.  If you can't support your
                       own assertions with evidence, or show how you reached
                       your conclusion aside from faulty logic or opinion,
                       then you're in serious danger of being labelled
                       (quite justifiably) a troll.  If you can't even
                       support your own argument with evidence, why the fuck
                       should anyone else?
                       \_ I am assuming I am debating with informed
                          individuals. If you are not informed then it is
                          easy to become so. Use Google. Otherwise, I don't
                          have time to search for and post links. This is
                          in the headlines. It's like asking for a link to
                          who Schiavo is. Read the Chronicle, which said:
                          "Leaders of the teachers unions are adamantly
                          opposed to the exam, as are groups representing
                          the minority students with the lowest pass rates."
                          I'm not a frickin' newspaper. Read one once in a
                          \_ why do conservatives support stealing money
                             from public schools to give to rich families?
                             \_ Because public schools apparently aren't
                                worth shit according to the standardized
                                tests. However, most wealthy conservatives
                                not only put their kids in private schools,
                                but contribute to public schools as well.
                                \_ So you're saying conservatives don't care
                                   about the non-wealthy (which is most of
                                   them) conservatives?
                                   \_ They probably don't, however which part
                                      of "contribute to public schools as
                                      well" did you miss? Whether they care
                                      or not, they are helping anyway.
                    \_ If by "liberals" you mean "teachers", then I can tell
                       you it's because they look at education as a continuing
                       process, while those who implement std'ized tests look
                       at it as a race with an endpoint.  In a perfect world,
                       they would have small enough class sizes that they could
                       give the necessary attention to each student.  In their
                       world, the number of students who passed whatever test
                       was set in front of them would be much higher than
                       83%.  As it is, it's a deadline put upon a system with
                       limited resources.  When budget cuts are linked to
                       poor performance on these tests, it creates an incentive
                       to "teach to the test", to the detriment of actual
                       \_ This is a load of shit. So "teach to the test"
                          then. At least we're sure they are teaching
                          something, as opposed to now where kids get by
                          w/o learning shit.
                          \_ Dim, you're a load of shit, as you make clear
                             any time you post here.  Talk to a teacher about
                             this sometime.  Pick one you respect.  You'll be
                             surprised how much you don't understand.
                             \_ I've talked to a lot of teachers and I
                                think they are mostly afraid of facing the
                                reality of their situation. No one said
                                teaching is easy. I respect that. However,
                                standardized testing is not supposed to be a
                                panacea or a way for kids to learn more.
                                It's just a metric. If you want to propose
                                something akin to a thesis to graduate high
                                school I am all for that, but personally a
                                simple test seems a lot easier for the
                                teachers if less accurate.
                                \_ So you've talked to the teachers and
                                   dismissed what they've said out of hand.
                                   Grow up.
                                   \_ Yes, it is a sign of immaturity that
                                      I do not take what teachers say at
                                      face value. Heck, my sister-in-law
                                      is a teacher. I find their arguments
                                      lacking. Most of it is touchy-feely
                                      bullshit about catering to the
                                      lowest common denominator. These are
                                      the same people who don't want to be
                                      paid for their performance. I can't
                                      even imagine having a job where my
                                      performance wasn't tied to my
                                      raises. Why would I want to make the
                                      same as someone who does less than I
                                      do? For teachers somehow this is OK.
                                      \_ Yes, not everyone in the world has
                                         the exact same worldview as you.
                                         That does not mean that they are
                                         "wrong" and you are "right."
                                         \_ I have the freedom to label
                                            them 'stupid'. Many of them
                                            are booksmart, but have no
                                            clue how anything works. It
                                            comes from being around 8 year
                                            olds all day. Not wanting a
                                            raise for performance & not wanting
                                            the underperforming teacher in the
                                            next room replaced is idiotic
                                            in every worldview but theirs.
                                            If schools were run by
                                            businesspeople instead of
                                            'educators' more shit would
                                            get done. In fact, this is
                                            closer to how private schools
                                            \_ I'm amused that you think you
                                               have a clue about how things
                                               \_ I get a feeling you are
                                                  easily amused. I'm
                                                  saddened that you think
                                                  I don't have a clue.
                          \_ This is a load of shit.  How is 'teaching to the
                             test' equivalent to an education in any
                             rational sense?  Memorizing a set of answers
                             without any context or any ability to apply
                             that knowledge isn't education.
                             \_ Our education system, including college,
                                is the best in the world. We must be
                                doing something right.
                                \_ Nah - I think our collegiate educational
                                   system is the best in the world, but our
                                   lower level educational system(s) are
                                   desperately in need of attention.
                                   \_ Your claim that high school graduates
                                      are the worst in the world is hard
                                      to reconcile with the fact that our
                                      college graduates are the best.
                                      \_ Uhm, ehr?  I never made the claim
                                         that our HS grads are the worst in
                                         world.  You should reread my previous
                                         post, dude.
                                         the world.  You should reread my
                                         previous post, dude.
                                      \_ Maybe most of our college grads
                                         are foreigners (this is certainly
                                         true in the postgraduate level).
                             \_ Really basic math skills, history recital,
                                and English language ability should be
                                easily testable. And yes, a lot of kids would
                                fail that. And if they do then they aren't
                                ready to graduate. Obviously we expect that
                                an education should have been provided along
                                the way, but a basic test can at least stop
                                blindly pushing kids through a system without
                                even meeting the most basic of educations.
                                Ideally basic tests should be given in earlier
                                grades to catch problems earlier. Kids in a
                                certain grade should be expected to have a
                                certain skill level. Smaller class sizes are
                                good to a point, but only the kid and his
                                parents really have the ability to make sure
                                a kid learns actual skills, and not sit around
                                in no-pressure environments where everything
                                is the right answer.
                                \_ Err, I'm not taking a stand for or against
                                   the notion of an exit exam.  Reread, please.
                                   I'm objecting to the fuck-stupid notion
                                   that teachers prepping students to pass one
                                   very basic test is in any way meaningful.
                                   \_ The problem here is that kids aren't
                                      passing the tests EVEN WHEN the
                                      teachers teach to the test. This
                                      implies that when they are not
                                      teaching to the test the results are
                                      about as dismal. So teach to the
                                      test and get 98% of the kids to pass
                                      and then worry about if it is meaningful.
                             \_ And yet our fully contextual students get
                                clobbered annually in achievement tests by
                                students in countries big on memorization.
                                And we lament when our colleges and grad schools
                                couldn't import more of those memorization
                                drones.  Amazing.
                                \_ 'Fully contextual'?  Are you nuts?  The
                                   problem has more to do with crappy quality
                                   of education and (depending on who you
                                   speak with) a bloated administration that
                                   soaks up any money thrown at it.  If you
                                   think that memorizing answers for one test
                                   is going to magically fix everything,
                                   you are so deluded or ignorant it makes my
                                   teeth ache.
                                   \_ college admissions use mostly GPA and SAT
                                      to select students. even the private ones
                                      who are free of government garbage. so
                                      the free market thinks standardized tests
                                      are a good indicator of academic prowess
                                      for their student body that they want to
                                      be the best possible to generate good
                                      alumni etc.
                                      \_ 'The free market'?  LOL.  Thanks.
                                         That actually made my day.
                                   \_ Do they make the tests available ahead of
                                      time?  Or the questions?  If not, how do
                                      you memorize the answers?  Or do they
                                      make a study guide available?  Go ahead,
                                      memorizing that would be a good start.
                                      \_ Yes, actually they do make the tests
                                         available ahead of time.  That's
                                         a rather large part of the origin of
                                         this debate.  That's why you need
                                         tests that can't be taught to.
                                         \_ URL please.  Giving out tests early
                                            seems stupid enough to require
                                            substantiation.  If all they give
                                            out is a study guide, then teaching
                                            to that seems quite reasonable.  It
                                            would be even better if they called
                                            it a "study guide" but it's really
                                            a "text book".
                                              \_ That rocks.
                                            \_ In fact, that seems to be exactly
                                               the case.  "Teaching to the test"
                                               means teaching the subjects known
                                               to be in the test, rather than
                                               teaching the questions (or
                                               answers as you claimed).  See
                                      for example.  I'm
                                               still awaiting proof of your
                                               claim that tests are given out
                                            \_ Find them yourself.  It's easy
                                               enough.  You know *nudge,nudge*
                                               google?  Yahoo?
                                               \_ I can't find any.  Of course,
                                                  it's impossible for me to
                                                  prove that it doesn't exists,
                                                  prove that it doesn't exist,
                                                  hence my plea of a positive
                                                  instance where the test was
                                                  given out early, since you
                                                  made the claim.  You can't
                                                  find one either, huh?
                                                  \_ "The abscence of evidence,
                                                  \_ "The absence of evidence,
                                                      is not the evidence of
                                                      \_ One would think that
                                                         you made the claim
                                                         with a particular
                                                         example in mind...
                                                         Otherwise why would
                                                         you make the claim in
                                                         the first place?  So
                                                         you're saying you made
                                                         the original claim of
                                                         tests being handed out
                                                         early to students
                                                         *without* any basis at
                                                         \_ No, I was just
                                                            making fun of
                                                            Rumsfeld for
                                                            saying that during
                                                            the WMD debate.
                                                            \_ So where is the
                                                               reference to
                                                               tests being
                                                               given out early?
                                                               Again, one
                                                               assumes you
                                                               have made the
                                                               claim with some
                                                               basis in fact.
                                                               \_ I am not the
                                                                  same guy who
                                                                  made that
                                                                  claim. I am
                                                                  some other
                                                  \_ Your assumption that he
                                                     ever looked may be
                                                     somewhat specious.
                          \_ I listened to an interview on KCBS radio.  Teaching
                             to the test is big.  The interviewer asked, "Is
                             that because the teachers are teaching to the
                             test?"  The researcher said, "No, we use an
                             adaptive test that cannot be taught to."
                             Interviewer: "How about this other measurement
                             that declined?  Could that show teaching to the
                             test?"  Researcher: "No, it's impossible to teach
                             to our test.  Our data don't show why that other
                             measure declined."  3 questions later, the
                             interviewer asked: "Does this show the teachers
                             are teaching to the test?"  Researcher: "We don't
                             know yet.  You can say that if you want, but we
                             haven't done the analysis yet."  End of interview,
                             interviewer: "Apparently teaching to the test is
                             causing an improvement in test scores."
        \_ I'm a liberal and support HS Exit Exams.
        \_ I'm a liberal, and I'd support them if they reflected the results
           of some sort of organized curriculum of basic material.
        \_ I'm a liberal and I support gays, lesbians, and welfare.
        \_ You would understand the opposition if you looked at the
           composition of the 17% who fail the test.
           \_ Yes! I forgot this argument. It's racist! Tests are racist
              plots invented to keep minorities down! Oh, except Asians
              \_ Standardized tests are culturally biased in favor of those
                 cultures that value education.
              \_ Have you actually considered the possibily that standardized
                 tests have cultural bias? Nah, probably not. You sound
                 too smug and arrogant to ever consider the possibility
                 that your assumptions might be incorrect.
                 \_ This arguement is laughable, and makes me ashamed to call
                    myself a "liberal", since it seems to be only liberals
                    who actually believe it.  Maybe you can explain what
                    Irish, Jewish, Indian, Japanese, Korean and Scottish
                    immigrants have in common that somehow makes tests biased
                    in favor of all of them.  I'm pretty sure that if the
                    tests were somehow geared towards people who were raised
                    in, say, a Japanese household I would have failed.  And
                    if they had a "jewish" bias, I'm sure the same would be
                    true of most asians who also kick ass on the tests. I'll
                    say it again: standardized tests are culturally biased
                    for exactly one cultural trait: valuing education.
                    This is why affirmative action for higher education makes
                    \_ Are you the same guy who mocked the the notion that
                       there was bias in the tests? You are talking out of
                       both sides of your mouth, if you are. And yes, I can
                       explain how it might be so, but I will not bother
                       wasting my time with someone who is mind is so
                       obviously already made up.
                       \_ Fucktards like you are the reason we keep losing
                          elections.  Maybe you should take your giant brain
                          over to the republican party.
                    \_ Old jungle saying: You can lead a girl to Vassar but
                       you can't make her think.
                 \_ Apparently they're culturally biased for Asians.
                    \_ Is that what you think? Perhaps they are simply
                       biased toward the wealthy:
                       \_ Asians (Jews, too) didn't always have it so
                          good. I am not sure it's genetics, but it
                          certainly is cultural. They are wealthy because
                          they worked hard and studied hard. You have your
                          cause and effect mixed up.
                          \_ At least you are thinking, unlike Mr. Your
                             Argument Is Laughable fellow above. There
                             is probably some kind of virtuous cycle that
                             is taking place. Whether you want to call
                             this evidence of bias or not is up to do.
                             Here is a great paper by a Harvard researcher
                             talking about cultural and language bias:
2005/4/28 [Uncategorized] UID:37403 Activity:low
4/28    If anyone wants a job in San Francisco testing software for a
        new storage system at Sun, have a look at
        Send any questions to srgordon.  Thanks.
2005/4/28 [Recreation/Food] UID:37404 Activity:moderate
        Watch freeper posters go crazy over new Denny's discrimination lawsuit
        "In case you haven't figured it out, you're not welcome in this country
        anymore. Get out, and take your friends and relatives with you."
        \_ I don't blame the manager. I mean, come on, those guys have the
           following names: Osama, Arafat, and Hussein. Had I been the manager
           I'd personally give Ashcroft a call.
           \_ Mmm.. dumbassitude reigns supreme.
        \_ I was surprised that a bunch of the "should we go back to not
           letting in black folks" comments were not censored by the freeper
           Gestapo -- downright progressive by their standards.
           \_ We didn't let in the black folks.  We kidnapped them from Mother
              Africa and shipped them here!
        \_ maybe you guys have been over-spoiled by the high level of
           tolerance in the Bay Area, and think that the rest of America
           is in fact like Bay Area, when it fact, it is not. Far from it.
           \_ Maybe you're not as intelligent or as cosmopolitan as you think
              you are.  Train harder, grasshopper.
        \_ Just for fun, why don't we post EXTREME right stuff on the
           freeper, like "Damn those Muslims! Let's nuke them NOW! Use
           tactical nuke on Iran and then Korea! Then assassinate the Muslim
           head, and then blow up Haj and Mecca. KILL THEM ALL! And in fact,
           deport all immigrants, and ship those damn Negros back to Africa."
           Let's see if that gets censored, and see how far you can go.
           It'll be an interesting experiment.
           \_ You obviously haven't read enough freerepublic.  You don't
              need experiment.  Just archaeology.
2005/4/28 [Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:37405 Activity:nil
4/28    Liberal clothing store:
        \_ Ha ha I was a gay hooker at the White House and all I got was this
           lousy press pass -- that's pretty good.
2005/4/28 [Politics/Domestic/California, Finance/Investment] UID:37406 Activity:nil
4/28    I have a lot of stocks and I get to vote for amendments. I see the
        following A LOT: "Approval of amendment and extension of the executive
        officer incentive plan" or "Amendment of bonuses and options to
        officers." I always vote no, yet, I always see them getting approved.
        What the fuck?
        \_ Unless you own or control 51% it doesn't matter what you vote for.
        \_ You don't have a lot of stock.  get 100,000 shares and then you
           still don't have a lot of stock in terms of moving those votes.
        \_ You know how you always read shit like "And the board of directors
           awarded the C*O with 14,000,000 shares of stock" -- That's money AND
           more votes for themselves.
2005/4/28 [Finance/Investment] UID:37407 Activity:nil
4/28    On my Etrade Investment Account statement, I see something called
        E TRADE FUNDS GOVERNMENT MONEY MKT FD, $-144.79. What the hell is that?
        \_ A money market is like a mutual fund that generally invests only in
           highly liquid short term low-risks interest-bearing investments,
           in this case government bonds.  My broker put all my spare cash into
           a money-market which charges high fees and barely makes money at
           the moment.  It's slightly better than plain old cash, but I think
           it's mainly so the broker can make more money on the plain cash its
           clients keep on hand.
2005/4/28-30 [Recreation/Dating, Science/Physics] UID:37408 Activity:nil
4/28    I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet. Husband and Wife physics
        professors fillibuster Frist:
        I recognize that Griffiths book from Physics h7a!
        \- Do you know who Ed Witten is?
2005/4/28-30 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:37409 Activity:nil
4/28    Ah-nold's approval ratings have been termimated. (
        \_ user/password: bugmenot/bugmenot
        \_ more on Arnie: (washingtonmonthly)
        \_ Like it matters. It didn't matter for Bush. Anyway, who are
           they going to get to run against Ah-nold?
           \_ Rob Reiner has stated his interest.  I for one welcome our new
              meathead governor.
2005/4/28-30 [Science/Physics, Computer/Theory] UID:37415 Activity:nil
04/28   Quantum Crypto for Video Conferencing:
        \_ I think you don't need to crack every frame to steal secrets.  If
           you can crack the audio stream and you can crack one video frame per
           two or three seconds, that's good enough.
2005/4/28-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37416 Activity:nil
4/28    Can you sue people in another country? I didn't think you could,
        but I just read about some texan men who are suing Pope Benedict
        over some sex abuse cover-up.
        \_ you can sue anyone for anything. Whether it actually gets rejected
           is a whole different story. Like, I'd love to sue Sadam Hussein and
           GWB for making me sleepless at night, and I can in fact file suit
           but the chance of it going through is nil.
        \_ Assuming that this is a civil action and they are not suing the Pope
           under a Fed statute (such as a human rights statute), 28 USC Sec 1332
           (a)(2) allows fed cts to hear a dispute between US citizens and
           citizens of a foreign state (provided that the damages alleged are
           more than $75K). The practical problem here will be enforcement. While
           some foreign cts are willing to enforce US judgments, most are not.
2005/4/28-30 [Uncategorized] UID:37417 Activity:nil
04/28   Own your own x-wing: (
        \_ Stupid img src ref on page launches you into password hell
2005/4/28-30 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:37418 Activity:nil
4/28    emacs question. In tcsh, I can type a few characters, and press ESC-P
        to complete it, based on history. Is it possible to do the same in
        emacs, short of having to type "history" and then !<number>? I mean,
        !! is cool, but having this tcsh feature in emacs would be cooler.
        \_ Oh you can just type !<few charecters>      God, I need more sleep
        \_ M-/ (dabbrev-expand).
2020/07/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:April:28 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>