Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:April:20 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/4/20-21 [Science/Disaster, Science/Electric] UID:37274 Activity:kinda low
4/19    I went to Fry's today and got a new 300W PC power supply. It is 80%
        PSU efficient (compared to the industry average of 68%), and 99% PFC
        active power correction. Unlike my previous power supply, it is very
        cool, and best of all, it is NEAR SILENT! At 22db, the only thing I
        can hear is my faint pitched HD. If you ever want a near silent PC,
        I highly recommend Seasonic, model Super Tornado (120mm fanpower).
        It's a bit costly, at $45, but if you like silence, it is worth it.
        \_ Wow, you bought something from Fry's that will actually shutup.
           Too bad the same can't be said of their salespeople.
           \_ Fry's used to be a cool place when I bought my first PC 15 years
        \_ Thanks.  Go to and click on Power Supplies
           for a review of this.  I blew > $100 for an Enermax on
           that's a few percent more efficient, 4 dB louder at idle (21dB),
           is compliant with the 2.0 whatever, stays on for 2 minutes after
           you shutdown (this is good actually), and tops out with more juice.
              \_ Yeah, you happened to buy the quietest, non-passively cooled
                 power supply EVAR.
                 \_ 0Mg!!! this d00d r0x! d00d can play Quake without hearing
                    the annoying fan noise (like it matters). Lame.
        \_ I second the Seasonic. I've gotten 3 of 'em (coupla Super Silencers
           and a Super Tornado (which, contrary to its name, is actually
           quieter than the Silencer)). I highly recommend them. Oh, and they
           might be cheaper at Central Computer (Newark & San Jose)
2005/4/20-21 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:37275 Activity:low
4/19    I went to Fry's today and saw a 400GB HD by Seagate, with 5 years
        warranty!!! That is just amazing. By the way, what is the current MB
        limitation on size? I remember back in the 90s I had to get special
        HD card to go above 4G, and then in the late 90s a special card to
        go above 80G. I'm just wondering what the current limitation is.
        \_ Why would there be a limitation? Granted, I always buy SCSI.
           BTW, 5 year warranty is standard. I am going to guess that you
           went to Fry's today and it got you all excited, huh? Calm down.
           \_ 5 years is not even close to standard, for IDE anyway.
              \_ I wouldn't know about IDE crap.
        \_ A year or 2 ago you could buy motherboards with a 137GB
           limitation (128*2^30bytes).  Except for a few external enclosures,
           you shouldn't have to worry about it.
2005/4/20-21 [Reference/Religion] UID:37276 Activity:moderate
4/20    Stupid question:  Why there isn't a demand for Pope to be elected?
                                            \- There was the Protestant
                                               Reformation instead. See e.g.
                                               Luther "Thesis" #51, #79, #82,
                                               #86etc. --cardinal psb
        or, why people are content with the existing process of selecting
        leader of 1 billion catholics?
        \_ Hi, you are obviously out of touch with the whole religious
           concept... religion is not a democracy. Popemastah is chose
           basically by the big G, yo. Why ain't there a demand for the
           10 commandments to be amended?
           \_ They were.  People of Israel, I bring you these fifteen..
              ...CRASH...ten!  Ten commandments!
              \_ Mel Brooks movie?
                 \_ History of the World Part 1. I'm still waiting for
                    Part 2 w/ Jews in Space!
                    \_ I always wondered if there was a Part 2.  I would
                       have liked to see it.
        \_ Vote for wrong pope == 1 way ticket to hell. Would you risk it
           (assuming you really believed in all this heaven/hell Ebenezer
            scrooge stuff)?

            \_ To them, it is a democracy; Just like our founding
            fathers thought when they left out women and minorities.
        \_ To them, it is a democracy; Just like our founding fathers
           thought when they left out women and minorities.
2005/4/20-21 [Computer/SW/Virus, Computer/SW/OS, Computer/SW/Apps] UID:37277 Activity:high
4/19    Is it just me or did ZoneAlarm go from a decent home-firewall to a
        piece of crap? I have a version from over a year ago that works
        flawlessly. Twice now, I've tried to upgrade to the most recent
        version, and both times it's screwed up my setup so bad I had to
        downgrade back to the good one (the first time I couldn't connect to
        my work VPN, the second time it would not allow traffic between my
        two home computers to go through and any time I tried to copy files
        between them i would be disconnected from the internet).
        \_ No, it's ZoneAlarm. I've given up on it also and moved to
           Tiny Personal Firewall. It's just got so much unnecessary bloat
           that it's just plain stupid to run it. Stuff that also used to
           be decent but are really problematic include Symantec NAV,
           starting in 2004 it's really bloated up, the Symantec Firewall
           Suite, Adobe Acrobat 6.0+, the recent Quicktime versions, and
           Yahoo Messenger (it now takes up 25% of your screen with its
           unnecessary skins and stupid whizbang features you'll never use).
           This is why Free Software makes more and more sense, because
           commercial software needs to "improve" with time so they can
           continue making money. However, there is only so much you can
           do with simple software (such as a firewall) before feature
           creep totally destroys it.
           \_ I've worked at Zone Labs for over 4 years and sadly
              what you say is true.  I'm constantly fighting with upper
              management over new features vs code cleanup, and unfortunately,
              new features almost always win.  In our upcoming June
              release we are adding both a total re-rewrite of all the
              memory management that drastically improves performance
              of ZAP and P2P, but at the same adding "OS firewall" which
              hooks just about everything in the SDT and has the potential
              to prevent most rootkits, spyware, etc from being installed
              but unfortunately the code won't have enough time to stabalize,
              and will most likely cause thousands of new lockups, BSODs,
              etc...  Unfortunately, our sales are doubling every year so its
              very hard to argue with upper management.   It's very sad.
           \_ I found I had accidentally left Acrobat 5.0 on my computer
              however many years ago. I made it the default and suddenly
              looking at pdfs just got much faster. I"m now wondering if I
              can get away with older bloat-free version of some other things.
              The hacked freeware version of Realplayer is pretty lightweight,
              \_ As a side note, Acrobat 7 seems a lot snappier than v. 6.
                 \_ If you look carefully, the subtitle to Acrobat 7 is "the
                    apology".  ctrl-mousewheel works as well.  And you can find
                    in page without the idiotic and bloated find sidebar.
              \_ I recall stumbling on a site with pointers to old versions
                 of software a while ago--a lot of companies seem to keep
                 these on their ftp servers, but don't link to them from
                 their download pages.  I'm sure there are several sites
                 specializing in this sort of thing.  -John
        \_ I use the current version of Zone Alarm with no problems. -ausman
           Zone alarm source:
           if ($user == "ausman") {
        \_ I blame paolo. -geordan
           \_ I blame geordan. -God
2005/4/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:37278 Activity:nil
4/20    Today in History: Jimmy Carter Attacked by Killer Rabbit (Apr 20, 1979)
        \- well in a weird version of Godwin's Law, also Hitler bday. --psb
           \_ EOT
2005/4/20-22 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:37279 Activity:moderate
4/20    Early universe was a liquid:
           \_ Ugly bags of mostly water.
              \_ There's a Star Trek nerd loose on the motd!
                 \_ Red alert!
                    \_ Shields up.
                       \_ Set phasers to pun.
                    \_ Are you sure?  It does mean changing the bulb.
        \_ Are you suggesting that we all descended from LIQUID?!
        \_ The absentee ballot system in the States is pretty much just as
           \_ Yeah. After I heard about absentee ballot problems in the last
              election, the first thing I thought of was "jeez, this is like a
              quark-gluon plasma!"  That's how bad it is!!!!
           \_ Ugly bags of mostly water.
              \_ There's a Star Trek nerd loose on the motd!
        \_ [ comment moved to where it seems to make more sense ]
2005/4/20-22 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:37280 Activity:moderate
4/20    Yay!
        Consumer prices jumped 0.6 percent in March, the biggest inflation
        surge in five months ... The so-called core rate of inflation rose by
        a worrisome 0.4 percent in March, the largest jump in 2 1/2 years and
        double what economists had expected. ... "We are getting slower growth
        and higher inflation numbers. The Fed is caught," said David Wyss,
        chief economist at Standard & Poor's in New York. ... Wyss predicted
        that the central bank would raise rates another quarter-point when Fed
        officials next meet on May 3 and probably continue with quarter-point
        increases in future months.
        \_ You're thinking this is a good thing?
           \_ stagflation, you get what you sowed. yay!  - !pp
           \_ I think it is good when people have to confront the consequences
              of their (bad) choices.
              \_ Our choices?  I think you mean, "people have to confront the
                 consequences of their government's bad choices."  Don't know
                 if I see anything good about it, but it's certainly nothing
                 new - the fat cats screw up and the little guy gets the shaft.
                 \_ We get the government we deserve. Didn't people vote
                    the current one in office?
                    \_ stupid people.
                    \_ Neither Kerry nor Bush were willing to talk about the
                       impending peak in oil production and how we will have
                       to downscale our way of life in response to that, since
                       that would have been political suicide.  I think the
                       difference is that once the SHTF (shit hits the fan)
                       and it becomes obvious to a large segment of the
                       population, Kerry would probably start some kind of
                       program that might actually work as opposed to Bush's
                       strategy of serially invading oil rich countries.
                       \_ You fucking crackpot.  When it comes to invading
                          countries, Dubya is after the WMDs, not the oil.
                          The only problem was there weren't any WMDs. -liberal
                       \_ We won't have to "downscale" our way of life if
                          we take oil shortage as a given and try to re-engineer
                          our present technology.  The scaling back will only
                          have to happen if we get cought with our pants down
                          on this issue.  This will only happen if fuckheads
                          who are owned by the Saudi royal family continue to
                          be in control of the worlds largest energy user and
                          greatest scientific power.
                          \_ You need to do more research into how dependent
                             we are on oil and natural gas and how there
                             are no current realistic alternatives that can
                             provide energy, especially portable energy, on
                             the same scale.  Just read this today:
                             \_ You know, I keep hearing this, and the people
                                I hear this from are (surprise, surprise) oil
                                executives. Mind you, I own oil and natural
                                gas stock because it didn't take a genius
                                to figure this was coming. However, a country
                                that could fly men to the moon and back within
                                50 years of the invention of the airplane and
                                developed the first nuclear weapon in record
                                time would most likely be able to convert all
                                their existing power plants to safe nuclear
                                (read pebble reactors) and convert all cars
                                to use some sort of fuel cell in probably
                                10-15 years max. All it takes is the collective
                                will of the people and government. This whole
                                "we're really dependent on oil" bullshit line
                                has just got to stop. We need to get off our
                                asses, get rid of the oil barons, get rid of
                                the SUV morons, and get rid of the greenpeace
                                anti-anything-nuclear beatniks and find some
                                real viable solutions to our long-term
                                energy needs. Energy should be so inexpensive
                                that it is free by now. It's ludicrous that
                                we are still utilizing 150 year old sources
                                of fuel in this day and age. I mean, c'mon
                                we are STILL burning coal?
                                \_ It certainly would be technically possible
                                   to shift the US economy to not be oil-based.
                                   But history is littered with societies which
                                   refused to change their practices in time
                                   to save themselves.  The US hasn't even
                                   managed to adopt the metric system; where
                                   would we get the will to fundamentally
                                   change our way of life?  -tom
                                   \_ It's not a question of fundamentally
                                      changing the lifestyle of Joe Sixpack,
                                      it's a question of changing our scientific
                                      research priorities, which atually happens
                                      pretty fast.  Post 911 lots of physicists
                                      suddenly said that their research would
                                      help detect anthrax, because that was
                                      suddenly a very high priority as far as
                                      fuding agents are concerned.   When you
                                      consider the relative risks from running
                                      out of energy vs. anthrax attacks, it's
                                      completely insane that anthrax detectors
                                      are killer aps and energy related
                                      research is not(as much).  This is a
                                      reflection of the morons in *charge* of
                                      the government, not the morons who can't
                                      figure out how to convert cm to inches.
                                      I think it's quite concievable that
                                      president Gore could have changed this.
                                      Our civilization may end up collapsing
                                      not because of some global arrogance
                                      and shortsightedness, but rather becuase
                                      the Republicans stole a few hundred votes
                                      in Florida back in 2000.
                                \_ we're really dependent on oil" bullshit IS
                                   NOT BULLSHIT.  How the FUCK are you going
                                   to produce your pesticides with nuclear
                                   energy.  How are you going to produce your
                                   fertilizers with nuclear energy.  How the
                                   FUCK are you going to increase the rate of
                                   Uranium mining by the factor of 140 we'll
                                   need to replace everything with nukes or
                                   build 1,000 breeder reactors, etc.
                                   Were is all this waste going to go.  Many
                                   of the alternatives that will "last forever"
                                   like Thorium, etc., take more energy to
                                   refine than you get out of them, and nukes
                                   have a very long ramp-up time.  For the
                                   next 10-20 years, LNG and coal gassification
                                   are much more realistic but all of these
                                   types of things will fail eventually without
                                   a switch to renewables, a stop to eternal
                                   growth and some downscaling of the economy.
        \_ So pumping money into the economy didn't help that much, because it
           just meant house prices shot up and people bought some Toyotas and
           Sony televisions etc. Why can't the gov't use more targeted
           benefits for US business rather than just dorking with interest
           \_ Businesses want to make money, not help the country.  It seems
              that in the past, perhaps a majority of businesses saw that one
              leads to the other, that doesn't seem like the prevalant mode
              of current business thinking.
2005/4/20-22 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:37281 Activity:low
4/20    When democracy meets islam in the UK: (
        \_ The absentee ballot system in the States is pretty much just as
        \_ I think your link description goes better with this one:
           \_ Not really.  George Galloway is, not to put too find a point
              on it, a cunt in the finest tradition of cuntness.  Read up
              on his past a bit; he's just getting his just desserts for
              a lot of really really bad shit that he's done.  Ironic that
              it's coming from an islamic mob, though.  -John
2005/4/20-22 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:37282 Activity:nil
        LA Times editorial staff says Bolton should voluntarily withdraw from
        consideration for UN ambassadorship - saving Dubya the embarrassment of
        yanking him - and instead take an ambassadorship to France.
        \_ oh, they'll love him in France
        \_ Interesting, but I thought he had every vote he needs thanks to a
           Rep senator who is, by his own admission, voting against the wishes
           of his consituency. Then again, that was yesterday morning.
           \_ Ooh, you missed a good one.  Voinovich (of all people) threw
              in a monkey wrench.  They put off the committee vote for 3 weeks
              or something.  But it doesn't look good for bolton.
              \_ Go to, do a search for Voinovich, and guess
                 how fast this guy's going to buckle.
2005/4/20-22 [Computer/Blog, Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:37283 Activity:high
4/20    Question about Internet libel: I have a bitchy pissed-off (ex)friend
        who has decided to make it her life's work to get back at me.  She
        routinely posts crap on her blog about me, but today she actually
        posted my full name with her lies.  I did some searches on Google
        for recent legislation/rulings about Internet libel and found
        nothing but opinions about how things should be.  Does anyone know
        the current state of whether blog postings count as libel?  And
        additionally, any suggestions on getting her to stop (and change her
        recent blog post to not include my name) without having to actually
        resort to legal action?
        \_ This doesn't answer your question but it's related.  A friend of
           mine googled his own name, and found some chick's blog talking about
           "stalking [my friends full name]" which described her going around
           to various places where he works or hangs out to try to stalk him.
           Amusing but harmless.
        \_ I just googled for your name and couldn't find anything...
           \_ The crawlers havn't hit it yet.  A friend who routinely monitors
              her blog tipped me off to it.  The post was made this morning.
              - jvarga
              \_ What, no link?
        \_ There is not really any way to stop someone from doing something
           like this, short of legal action. Even if you go to court, all
           you can probably get is a monetary judgement. You *can* sue for
           libel, but it is expensive. Is this an ex? You are probably
           better off just trying to get some emotional distance from this
           and think about legal action later, when you are not so heated
           about it. -ausman
           libel, but it is expensive and time consuming. Is this an ex-gf?
           You are probably better off just trying to get some emotional
           distance from this and think about what you want to do about it
           later, when you are not so upset about it. -ausman
        \_ In order to answer this question properly, the motd requires that
           you tell the story behind this. Thank you.
           \- i think the toughest thing for you to prove will be harm or
              damage. if she just says you are an asshole or a "butthead
              programmer" that probably wont do it. however, there are
              legal claims in the area of privacy and harassment which is
              a different matter from defamation. i do not know much about
              this other than being aware of this option. that may be more
              fruitful. depending on the WEEB site where this is appearing,
              there may be non-legal approaches to this. --psb
              \_ Yes, I forgot that you can sometimes get postings removed
                 if they violate an AUP at an ISP. This would just force her
                 to change venues, though. Sometimes this is enough.
                 to change ISPs, though. Sometimes this is enough.
                 \_ Sure, just piss her off some more.
        \_ catfight!!
        \_ Get over it. If the blog entries continue, they will sound more
           and more shrill. Unless the accusations significantly affect your
           reputation and you can prove it, it's not worth the time or effort.
           That said, have someone, anonymously or not, let the person know
           that naming you can be seen as defamation of character which is a
           precursor to a possible libel suit. Fear is your pal.
        \_ The libel suit is basically not happening.  The rules for libel
           suits are pretty much the same for blogs/the web as they are for
           print.  The problem is that proving *material* harm (are the things
           she's saying costing you money due to lost job or business
           opportunities?) is *very* hard to do.  The other test you have to
           pass is would an ordinary individual off the street believe the
           things this person is saying are true.  You can try pursuing this
           legally but it is a) expensive and b) 80% likely to fail.  Why not
           just try talking to your ex-friend/gf/life-pal/whatever and saying
           ``Hey, knock it off you're being an immature git.'' in so many
           words. -dans
           \- as i said above, libel is probably not the way to go if it
              is personal stuff [as opposed to "he has been fired mutliple
              time for incompetence"] but there are other (legal) avenues.
              if it is beyond "just talk to her" and contancting isp etc,
              i think you are in "real lawyer" land. --psb
              \_ I don't have any intention of making this legal, I'm just
                 trying to find ways to make her go away.  The relationship
                 ended over a month ago and I've gone on with life (I just have
                 to monitor every so often to play damage control as she tries
                 to mess with my reputation in Berkeley while I'm out of state)\
                 but she's done anything but.  I just need some way to get it
                 to mess with my reputation in Berkeley while I'm out of state)
                 but she's done anything but.  I just need some way to get it
                 through her head that "its over, move the fuck on, stop trying
                 to destroy my life because you feel hurt and vindictive."
                 I've already pretty much cut off communication with her but
                 I'm getting sick of cleaning up all of the crap she's doing to
                 me back in Berkeley, this just being one very very small part
                 of the big picture. - jvarga
                 \_ guess the breakup was anything but amicable
                 \_ I tend to be fairly laissez faire about this thing.
                    Unless your ex is really vindicitve AND really socially
                    adept AND really evil she probably won't do much damage.
                    Your friends know you, and will be able to smell her
                    bullshit a mile a way.  Unless of course all your friends
                    were mutual, and you're playing the divide up the friends
                    game in which case you might want to consider an emergency
                    trip to Berkeley just to play it safe. -dans
                    \_ When you play the divide up the friends game, the girl
                       usually wins. The bar for female's credibility is set
                       really low compared to yours.
                       \_ That's inconsistent with my experieince.  Are you
                          really socially inept, or should I just be happy I
                          don't have friends like yours? -dans
                    \- you can try to push her over the edge so she becomes
                   \_ Be the bigger person and rise above it. If someone
                      asks you about it, you can answer, but I don't think you
                      need to defend yourself otherwise. Your friends won't need
                      it and others won't believe you anyway. Avoid going on
                      a retaliatory smear campaign, if you can help it.
                 \_ Dude, it's only been a month, give her more time to get
                    over it.  She sounds like a bit off, but maybe you pushed
                    her.  Next time, choose your gf more wisely.
        \_ We have just been discussing Defamation in my Torts class. Based
           on what we have covered, you might be able to make out a cause of
           action for libel against her. I'll ask my Torts prof and get back
           to you. Anyway, based on what I know:
           Assuming that these statements aren't some sort of public concern
           (you are stealing from the univ or some such) and you are not some
           sort of public official/figure, you will fall into the "private/
           private" category and should be able to get some money or and
           injunction/retraction w/o needing to show actual harm (libel
           can recover w/o actual damages in most cases). If you can show
           knowing falsity or reckless disregard for the truth (NY Times
           actual malice) you might even be able to get presumed and
           punitive damages.
           I think the tricky part will be to show that her statements were
           capable of having a defamatory meaning. You will have to show
           that the statements were more than hyperbole and that they are
           proveably false (opinion is generally not actionable). The tough
           part will be in proving that the statements were capable of
           lowering your reputation or detering others from associating w/
           you or exposed you to hatred, contempt or ridicule.
           What might be better than actually going through w/ a suit is
           to threaten her w/ one and maybe file a complaint to that end.
           You can probably file the complaint yourself in at the ct house
           and serve her via certified mail. That should really spook her.
           \_ Shows what you know. You can't serve someone in state
              simply with certified mail. -williamc
              \_ iirc sec Cal Civ Proc Code Sec 415 allows in state
                 service by mail in lieu of personal service.
                 \_ and you recalled wrong. If you actually read the code
                    you still need to attempt to serve in person first and
                    THEN mail a copy. Look, buddy, I work at a law firm,
                    we have to go through a process server or through a
                    3rd party who's over 18 years of age. If the OP's
                    location is unknown you have to do a due diligence
                    search and show the court
                    before appearing. Serving papers in-state can get messy.
                    Also, you can't just leave the papers in a mailbox when
                    serving, you usually have to make best-efforts attempts
                    at contacting the OP someone who can give it to the OP
                    like a landlord or a relative.
                 \_ You are absolutely right. Unfortunately, this doesn't
                    usually work with things like this because the OP can
                    just ignore it and after 20 days you'll have to server
                    them in person, which is why we never go through this
                    route and use process servers. -williamc
                    \_ Okay. I didn't know that. I just remember my civ
                       pro prof saying that in ca, you could use mail
                       for in state service but that some states don't
                       allow mail for in state service. thanks for
                       the info.
                 \_ Maybe we should deport you to Canada for saying something
                    williamc doesn't like....
                    \_ Well, let's just say that maybe we should deport people
                       who don't actually read the code carefully to Canada.
                       Hey, maybe you can get served through registered mail
                       within the province! -williamc
           \_ what law school do you attend?
        \_ Just she is posting things about you on the
           Internet, and you are posting things about her on the MOTD...I
           don't see much difference really...if she is reading these posts,
           she would probably consider it slandering too.
           \_ Now there is a stupider than average comment.
           \_ It's only slander if it's not true.  -tom
              \_ what can we say about jvarga's claim that his ex is bitchy
                 and has made it her life's work to get back at him by lying
                 about him on her blog?
                 \_ Generally a statement has to be proveable true/false
                    to be actionable. The statement that she is 'bitchy' is
                    probably not actionable b/c it is basically an opinon,
                    or an insult. Similarly the statement that it is "her
                    life's work" is also not actionable b/c it is basically
                    hyperbole and no one would really think that she had
                    made it her life's work to get jvarga.
                    Now the statement that she is 'lying' might be actionable
                    if she is not lying. However, if we assume that jvarga
                    is telling the truth (probably a safe assumption), then
                    the statement is not actionable.
              \_ actually, some states that still use common law will find
                 slander even when the statement is true IF the person who
                 made the statement acted out of ill will (assuming that
                 there are no 1st amd limits).
           \_ Responding to a defamatory comment or asking for information
              regarding such comments is considered 'self-help' and is in
              generally not considered defamatory on its own.
2005/4/20 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:37284 Activity:nil
4/20    Please explain to me why DeLay thinks that doing web searches
        on your own are incredibly outragous?
        "Absolutely. We've got Justice Kennedy writing decisions based
        upon international law, not the Constitution of the United States?
        That's just outrageous," DeLay told Fox News Radio on Tuesday
        "And not only that, but he said in session that he does his own
         research on the Internet? That is just incredibly outrageous."
2005/4/20-22 [Uncategorized/Multicategory] UID:37285 Activity:kinda low
4/20    Support The Culture Of Life
        \_ Related question: How come stores like Walmart and Vons sell yellow
           ribbons car stickers/magnets that say "Support our troops" yet no
           big chain store sells peace signs?
           \_ They can dance around the nonpolitical nature of the "Support"
              issue and no one is going to stand around and scream how
              unpatriotic it is to not sell peace signs, which would happen
              if they did that with the ribbons.
              \_ That's nice. I'm sure the cartoonist has served.
                 I'm sure there would not be U.S. involvement in the
                 Middle East if there were no oil.
                 \_ Oh ya, the Marines would heroically waltz in, via the
                    precedent as upholders of light & civilization set in
                    Rwanda, Sudan, East Timor before they figured out about
                    some big-ass fields south of there, etc. etc.  I don't
                    like the "no blood for oil" simplifications you get, but
                    let's at least be realistic--the US hasn't (unfortunately)
                    done any gunboat diplomacy for pure idealism's sake in a
                    very long time.  -John
                    \_ What about Bosnia? They were *Muslims* we helped!
                    \_ How about Haiti? Sure, we didn't want the refugees,
                       but putting in Aristede by Clinton can be seen as mostly
                       idealistic. We sure didn't get anything out of it.
                       \_ OK my bad, I overlooked that, thanks.  You could
                          also say Panama, although we supported pineapple-
                          face for decades before.  My point is mainly that
                          the US has failed to engage in places where we
                          REALLY should have, and taken a ham-handed approach
                          where we might have stayed out (Iran, Chile, maybe
                          even Grenada, depending on your POV.)  -John
                          \_ While I agree, in a lot of cases I this
                             kind of thing is sort of unavaoidable.  The
                             whole foriegn policy changes practically
                             every 8 years.  Sometimes there a big evil
                             that makes us keep around lesser evils.
                             Johnson, Nixon, Carter, WTF?
                 \_ and I bet he doesn't know the impact of the opium trade
                    on China
                 \_ BUD DAY doesn't approve of your tone.
                 \_ Of course there wouldn't.  If there were no oil there the
                    ME would be uninhabited or economically irrelevant, so we
                    wouldn't care what the locals did because it couldn't
                    impact us.
                    \_ It would pretty much be just like Africa, except Israel
                       would probably run the place.
                       \_ Nah, they'd probably ignore it.  Though if they did
                          run it, the Arabs would be in better shape.
2005/4/20-22 [Finance/Banking] UID:37286 Activity:nil
4/20    If you have cash and already have a lot in ING, and if you're
        considering foreign CD, is this a good choice?
        \_ Yeah I'm sure Japanese or Chinese investments are a really
           solid idea right now :-)  -John
2005/4/20-22 [Uncategorized] UID:37287 Activity:nil
4/20    Never mind, I remembered, and it wasn't worth remembering. Instead,
        I inflict Eastern Europop on you all.
        \ Just bring out the Numa Numa Dance!
2005/4/20-22 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:37288 Activity:low
4/20 SSH X forwarding question: I hook up my laptop to  corpoprate net
     and am able, via cygwin and ssh -X to  run X stuff w/o a problem from
     my corporate PC. But, when I am at home;  I get authentication
     errors when my laptop is on hooked up to my dsl.  The only
     difference is that, in order to get through  my work's firewall;
     I need to ssh  through another host (i.e. ssh -X  shost.corp and
     then ssh -X mypc. I can run apps from the shost machine w/o a
     problem. Ideas ? Suggestions?  shost is freebsd 4.10 while my
     machine is freebsd 5.3.  thanks
        \_ On which machine are you getting the errors?  Are you going
           directly from the home laptop to mypc?  -John
        \_ ssh -g -L 4567:mypc:22 shost.corp
           ssh -X localhost -p 4567
        \_ The formatting and punctuation is just painful to look at.
           \_ [ Edited for readability -formatd ]
2005/4/20-21 [Reference/Religion] UID:37289 Activity:nil
4/20    In A.D. 2005
        Papacy was beginning.

        Priest: What happen ?
        Altar Boy: Somebody set up us the pope.
        Altar Boy: We get white smoke.
        Priest: What !
        Altar Boy: Main balcony doors open.
        Priest: It's you !!
        Pope Benedict XVI: How are you congregants !!
        Pope Benedict XVI: All your saint are belong to us.
        Pope Benedict XVI: You are on the way to salvation.
        Priest: What you say !!
        Pope Benedict XVI: You have no chance to convert make your time.
        Pope Benedict XVI: Ha Ha Ha Ha ....
        Altar Boy: Father !!
        Priest: Exit square every 'Zig'!!
        Priest: You know what you doing.
        Priest: Move 'Zig'.
        Priest: For great holiness.
2005/4/20-22 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:37290 Activity:high
4/20    Hey MOTD -- Awhile ago, I wrote asking for advice about a new car (I
        was the guy with the Ford Taurus that might have a blown head gasket).
        As it turns out, I did not have a blown head gasket; but several
        people came forward with suggestions for a new car.  In the end, after
        much research, I ended up buying a Honda Accord Hybrid.  It was a
        little bit out of the base price range I had set forward, but you
        know?  It's turning out to be a *fantastic* car.  Whoever suggested
        it -- thank you so much!!!
        \_ Ford's new ad should say: "Ford Taurus. We'll make you love your
           your next new car."
        \_ so what do you like about it?
           \_ For a car of its class, it's got good power, very roomy, very
              comfortable, very quiet (even at speed), decent sound, doesn't
              suck to look at, great gas mileage for a 255hp v6, and with
              luck, will have good reliability.  It's got a number of neat
              comfort/cool/convenience features that just make it easy to
              commute in.  The one complaint I have is that the trunk is a
              little small, and the rear seats don't fold down (that's where
              the batteries are).    -OP
              \_ What gas mileage are you getting?  Can you charge it with AC
                 power supply?
                 \_ I'm getting about 30-32 MPG (I do a pretty even mix of
                    freeway and city street driving...heh...and I've been told
                    I have a lead foot).  I'm taking a long roadtrip to socal
                    this weekend -- I'll get back to you on the sustained
                    freeway MPG.  You don't need to charge it, the car's
                    charger connects automatically when you brake or when you
                    take your foot off the gas.  FWIW, manufacturer's spec
                    claims 29/37.  I suspect that's not too far off from
                    reality (maybe 1-2 MPG on each).    -OP
                    \_ Treadmill dyno tests are never accurate in that
                       respect. They can't simulate wind resistance.
                       \_ Yup...which is why I'm not claiming that it's the
                       \_ The tests don't even actually measure the amount of
                          gasoline that's burnt.  They only measure the amount
                          of exhaust and guestimate the amount of gas burnt,
                          which makes low-emission vehicles get higher numbers.
                    \_ For comparison, the non-hybrid Accord has only 240hp and
                       claims only 21/30 MPG.  The hybrid wins.
                       \_ Dang, my fat 1994 Saturn gets 27 on average.
        \_ How much did it cost? what State?
           Although I don't doubt it is a nice car, realize you are
           comparing to an old Taurus.
           \_ Man, I *loved* my old Taurus.  It was a great car that met my
              needs excellently.  It just wasn't making the transition to
              old age very gracefully once it hit 100k.  I'd have bought
              another Taurus were it not for two things: the Taurus as a model
              is being retired, and the exceptional degree of shady
              underhanded business practice at almost every Ford dealership
              I've ever had the displeasure of interacting with.  I mean,
              one expects a dealership to be a den of thieves, but goddamn,
              it was just grotesque.  -OP
           \_ Agreed. Pretty much anything compared to American consumer tech
              is good. The automobile industry now is like what electronic
              industry was 20-30 years ago. While American companies were
              providing superior services, Japanese companies were providing
              goods that required no service. There used to be a time when
              everyone bought from Philco, Westinghouse, Admiral, Emerson,
              General Electric / GE, Sparton, Stromberg-Carlson, Airline,
              Crosley, etc. How many of those companies survived these days?
              Just 2, RCA and Zenith. Nowadays, everyone buys from Sony, Aiwa,
              Panasonic, Fujitsu, Hitachi, etc. I predict the same thing will
              happen to American car companies. They'll fold, one by one,
              because they just can't make shit.
              \_ Except for Chrysler, which is now a German company.  I was
                 highly amused to see the Chrysler 300 being named "car of
                 the year" everywhere.  The general gist of the articles was
                 "Hey, and it's from America!" except that the car is
                 essentially an old Mercedes E series with a softer ride and
                 an American V8.
              \_ Zenith is no longer an American company.
                 \_ Neither is RCA, owned by Thompson, a french (?)
                    conglomerate, with pretty much the worst reliability when
                    it comes to electronics.
                    \_ WOW, ok. So Americans don't make nice foreign quality
                       electronics anymore, and the auto industry is becoming
                       the same. What's next, software and processors? Hmmm...
                       \_ 1) Music
                          2) Movies
                          3) Microcode (software)
                          4) High-speed pizza delivery
                          \_ Nice Snowcrash reference, but...
                             1) Music industry is dying.  CD sales are off
                                25% in the last few years, and already 8% this
                             2) More and more movies are being made offshore
                                and out of the country in places like Toronto
                                and New Zealand.  The reason?  Avoiding the
                                moviemaker unions.
                             3) Bangalore is nipping at our heels.
                             4) Well, you got me there.  Soon we will all be
                                delivering pizza.
                       \_ heh, apparently pizza hut had their asses handed
                          to them in Thailand last decade.  they franchised
                          and the franchisee dumped them and formed their
                          own chain.  pizza hut eventually got back into
                          the market but doesn't sell like the local.
                          nothing is sacred.
                       \_ James Kunstler always goes on about how you can't
                          have a nation of tanning hut managers as the basis
                          for your economy.
                \_ These American companies died because bozos like you keep
                   buying foreign goods. YOU killed American economy! Damn
                   you unpatriotic foreign goods lovers.     -Patriot
                   \_ If a company makes crappy goods and I'm not a major
                      shareholder or on the board, I have only one way to
                      express my discontent....with my dollars.  I'd rather
                      buy American, but more importantly, I'd rather spend
                      my hard earned cash on shit that actually, you know,
                      WORKS.  I'm not all that sympathetic to a business
                      that refuses to get with the times and do what it has
                      to do to make superior product -- and dies as a
                      result.              -Realistic Patriot
                   \_ My amplifier is USA made, going 9 years now without
                      a problem, a total tank.  Did cost $800 though.  I always
                      buy USA made if the quality is the same or better, and
                      the price isn't too much higher.
                      \_ American Apparel! New store will open on Telegraph
                         on the 7th of May. Could so many skinny jailbait
                         models in softcore poses be wrong?
        \_ Yeah, Honda ergonomics and design is just kind of amazing to me.
           Everything just works *right* and is where you expect it
           to be, even if you have never driven a Honda before.
           \_ Unlike Fords..  They seem to make everything backwards just
              to piss me off.
2005/4/20-26 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:37291 Activity:nil 78%like:37794
4/20    Senior Java Developer opening in Pleasanton, CA: see /csua/pub/RHI-IT
        - jthoms
        \_ Maybe you mean /csua/pub/jobs/RHI-IT
2005/4/20-22 [Consumer/TV] UID:37292 Activity:low
4/20    Tivo?  Or some other DVR?
        \_ DirecTV with Tivo. Gives you 2 separate feeds for recording
           to help with time conflicts. -bz
           \_ Yes.  Oh my yes.  --dbushong
2005/4/20-22 [Science/Electric] UID:37293 Activity:nil
4/20    Okay, this is weird if it's actually true:
2018/10/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:April:20 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>