Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:April:13 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2005/4/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity, Finance/Banking] UID:37162 Activity:very high
4/13    Stop the Presses - (John Corzine(D) says print more paper money to
        fix Soc. Sec. problem!)
        This is same dipshit whose idea to stimulate the economy in 2002 was
        a 300$ one time refund to tax payers.  More incredible is this
        guy is from Goldman Sachs.  Wait, Robert Rubin of LTCM and
        Mexico bailout fame is also from Goldman Sachs...
        http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200504120929.asp
        \_ Just because you don't understand the concepts behind it doesn't
           mean he is a dipshit.  Also, that you don't realize you're reading
           an article that oversimplifies the point to make political hay makes
           YOU the dipshit.
           One more thing:
           "The idea that the pay-as-you-go concept is a sound
           savings and retirement system is a fraud."
           This should have been a tipoff.  SS is NOT a "savings and retirement
           system."
              \_ you know more than Milton Friedman, interesting.
                 \_ you think Milton Friedman's word is gospel, interesting.
                 \_ no, just disagree.
           \_ No shit sherlock, it's a big ass government funded pension
              system that relies upon current taxpayers to fund past
              generations, which is a problem because life expectancy
              has drastically increased in general resulting in that
              system being potentially insolvent within our collective
              lifetimes. This is why it's an issue, this is why
              it probably needs to turn into a "savings and retirement"
              system in the long run. Are the Pubs right in saying it will
              become insolvent in XYZ year? Perhaps. But if the Dems want
              to appear semi-coherent about the issue they need to do their
              homework and show how the system will NOT become insolvent
              based on any given set of projections vs. what the Pubs are
              saying. Are personal accounts the answer if there is a problem?
              Maybe, but the flip side to that coin is that you are leaving
              the decision making process for retirement up to individuals,
              and the majority of individuals couldn't financially plan
              their way out of a paper bag. Perhaps this may change if we
              gave them the responsbility, who knows. Anyway, the issue
              has been broached, and it needs to be addressed one way or the
              other.
              \_ It isn't a "pension system" either.  It's societal insurance.
                 It's us as a society saying "if you contribute to this society
                 we will guarantee you a baseline level of support when you
                 are elderly or can't work anymore."  It's insurance.  If it
                 turned into a "savings and retirement" system, it would no
                 longer be a guarantee.  The Dems are coherent on it.  The
                 administration itself has stated that private accounts do
                 absolutely NOTHING to affect solvency.  The Reps are
                 purposefully incoherent because they're doing marketing. And
                 you're just an idiot.
                 \_ Question 1:  What was life expectancy when SS was enacted?
                    Question 2:  At what age were you allowed to collect SS
                                 income?
                    \_ Increases in life expectency were predicted pretty damn
                       reliably by the actuaries.  The discrepancies have been
                       taken care of by tweaks in the system and increases in
                       productivity.  This is a red herring, and does nothing
                       to support switching to privatization even if it weren't.
                       Privatizing puts us trillions more into debt and moves
                       those insolvency projections UP.
                       \_ Why have you not answered the question?
                          \_ Because the answer would be irrelevent.  The
                             system has evolved for 70 years.
                             \_ Then let's evolve it again.
                                \_ By removing the guarantee and adding $2+T
                                   to our debt.  Great.
                                   \_ Yep, and it'd get rid of the IOUs, which
                                      aren't a guarantee anyway.  Congress can
                                      just change the retirement age whenever
                                      they like.  Some guarantee.
                                      \_ yes they ARE a guarantee.  And if you
                                         think they're not then sell me any
                                         treasury bonds you hold.  I'll give
                                         you a nickel on the dollar if you
                                         think they're worthless.  As long
                                         as this country has its constitution,
                                         those bonds are an absolute guarantee.
                                         \_ If the market collapses and the
                                            economy tanks, it's not a
                                            guarantee.  Just like private
                                            retirement.
                                            \_ Even then you're wrong.  Those
                                               bonds go away when this country
                                               goes away.
                                               Check amendment 14, paragraph 4
                          \_ 65 and 63.  Insert argument about avg. life
                             expectency vs. expectency after adulthood here.
                             we've rehashed this dozens of times.
                             \_ Then what are *those* numbers?  What was life
                                expectancy after adulthood then vs. now?
                                \_ It really doesn't matter because comparing
                                   SS structure now to then is apples to
                                   oranges.
                                \_ You could make SS instantly solvent by raising
                                   the retirement age up to 80.
                                \_ You could make SS instantly solvent by
                                   raising the retirement age up to 80.
                                \_ As we have told you dozens of times before,
                                   the original SS actuaries accurately
                                   predicted that lifespans would increase.
                                   They even guessed what the lifespan increase
                                   was going to be pretty accurately. The
                                   fact that you cannot comprehend this fact
                                   and insist on hammering at a Red Herring
                                   just indicates that you are not too well
                                   informed yourself. The real problem is
                                   demographic and is caused by the baby
                                   boom generation retiring. No one could
                                   have predicted that. This problem will
                                   fix itself, btw, in about 70 years.
                                   \_ Oh no, nobody could have predicted that
                                      the baby boomers would retire!
                                      \_ Not in 1933, they couldn't.
        \_ Hey, this scheme did help a capitalist democracy get out of debt
           once before...
           \_ You mean WWII?
              \_ The post-WWI German government decided to just go nuts
                 printing more Deutsch marks.  Surprise-surprise they got
                 insane inflation.
        \_ And people mock those who point to this kind of thinking as the
           reason it was bad to leave the gold standard.
        \_ But what Corzine is saying is what is happening.  The current solution
           to our massive deficit and liabilities is a printing press.  I mean
           it's not like we are actually going to raise taxes to pay for it.
        \_ But what Corzine is saying is what is happening.  The current
           solution to our massive deficit and liabilities is a printing press.
           I mean it's not like we are actually going to raise taxes to pay for
           it.
           it, or cut spending.
2005/4/13-14 [Industry/Jobs] UID:37163 Activity:low
4/12    our company decided to hire a manager for my group (programmers) and
        move my current boss to another group instead. so tomorrow i'm
        supposed to interview someone who could be my future boss. any advice?
        \_ Aside from just managing programmers, a good manager will help run
           interferance with managment, either to help get more resources
           when they're needed, politely tell managment what is/is not possible
           and give managment and programmers realistic deadlines. One group at
           my work is hemmoraging programmers because upper managment keeps
           telling them different things are the #1 priority and the constant
           task switching and false urgency is causing burnout.  My manager is
           good at saying "we need to finish X first, then we can go do Y."
        \_ respect, attitude, smarts.  You don't want a manager that won't
           respect his/her team: eg. one interested in CYA or politics or
           self-aggrandizement.  You want one who realizes that his/her team
           is his/her strength, something to rely on, to respect, treat will,
           and even to promote.  ie. someone who understands your success is
           his/her success.  Rather than someone who tries to co-opt your
           success.  Also, how well you get along with your boss is very
           important: people skills, friendliness, personality, etc.  And
           someone who's intelligent enough (and technical enough) for you
           to work with and communicate clearly with.  Oh, and the above
           poster is also correct in saying you want a manager that will
           fight for/protect/defend your team.
        \_ Exactly the same thing happened to me a few years ago.  I hestitated
           to interview the candidate because I knew nothing about management,
           but the VP told me to just go and grill him for his technical
           skills.  He did okay, we ended up hiring him, and he ended up being
           my boss.  It worked out fine.  -- yuen
        \_ I'm in about the same boat right now.  Yes grill them on tech
           stuff IF THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO TECH STUFF.  Lots of managers
           tech skills aren't that important.  Much more important is for
           them to be able to manage.  Management is a support role, and
           in this case they should be supporting their team.  Ask the
           candidate what he will do to support the team, to sell himself
           as a net gain for you and your coworkers.
2005/4/13-14 [Recreation/Dating] UID:37164 Activity:kinda low
4/13    What joyless fucking Communist^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hterrorist deleted the
        "Eric Crapton" post?
              --  Isn't that an oxymoron? Even more so considering the
        perpetual lack of a sex life for the avarage sodan.
               \_ Never had joyless sex before?  Lucky you.
               \_ "fucking" clearly no longer only refers to a sex act.
                  In fact, in England and Ireland it is noun, verb, article,
                  and punctuation all in one!
                  \_ As HRH Duke of Edinburgh once said when touring the Royal
                     Navy Ship HMS Boxer, "Not another fucking chamber."
                     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip%2C_Duke_of_Edinburgh
2005/4/13-14 [Computer/HW] UID:37165 Activity:nil
4/13    If I buy Microsoft Small Business Server 2003 with 5 CALs,
        it comes with an exchange server I can run right?  Can
        I only run that for 5 users?  or can I run it for many many
        users ??
2005/4/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Reference/Tax] UID:37166 Activity:nil
4/13    Yahoo! News - "At tax time, lots of money under table":
        http://csua.org/u/bog
        The evaded tax is "equal to 75 percent of the annual budget deficit,
        two-thirds of Defense Department spending, or what the US spends on
        Medicare in a year."
2005/4/13-5/25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:37167 Activity:nil
4/14    Perl upgraded to 5.6.2. SpamAssassin (spamd/spamc) upgraded to 3.0.2.
        moria (and angband, and NPPAngband) installed, for all you really
        old-schoolers.
2005/4/13-14 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:37168 Activity:low
4/13    What is a good terminal program for Linux, which can talk to
        devices over a serial port for me?  I need to talk to a UPS
        and to an ethernet switch.  Thanks.  --PeterM
        \_ /usr/bin/cu dir
        \_ minicom
        \_ kermit
        \_ tip... just kidding.
           \_ Just why did they drop tip.  That pisses me the fuck off.
              --scotsman
2005/4/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:37169 Activity:nil
4/13    Support bipartisan Senate bill S.678!
        http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/4/13/164333/833
        http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/4/13/172939/078
2005/4/13-15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:37170 Activity:nil
4/13    CSUA Office peoples, be on lookout for Python Cookbook 2nd edition
        in mailbox, probably addressed to P. Nunez (it's meant for CSUA
        library)
        \_ Thanks Phil!
2005/4/13-14 [Uncategorized] UID:37171 Activity:nil
4/13    The word of the day is: Iaido.
        \_ Better word of the day: Yaoi
           \_ wasn't Yaoi already a word of the day earlier this week?
2005/4/13-14 [Uncategorized] UID:37172 Activity:nil
4/13    Where have all the good trolls gone?
        \_ They're with yermom.
2005/4/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:37173 Activity:high
4/13    What an extremely misleading title.
        "China Accuses Japan of Distorting History"
        http://tinyurl.com/5l7yt (yahoo news).
        \_ China bashing at its best, wow.
        \_ What is the author trying to say?  That the collective Chinese
           people should not protest against Japan because of Chinese govt's
           wrongdoing?  Sure, Chinese govt has its share of wrongdoing in other
           areas, and for that let the Indians and Vietnamese and the Hong Kong
           people protest against it.  But that doesn't mean the Chinese people
           shouldn't protest against Japanese govt and people.  It's one thing
           when people in an oppressive country are forced to agree with its
           govt's wrongdoing, but it's another thing when people in a
           democratic country agree with its govt's wrongdoing.
           \_ What if you're a Chinese citizen and you want to protest jailings
              of pro-Democracy students or protest the Tiananmen Square
              massacre?
              \_ As with any country, you can only protest what the
                 government allows you to protest. Try protest to
                 overthrow the current government, as in "form armed
                 militia" like the original constitution allows. See
                 what the US government will do.
                 \_ It's good to be a member of the People's Congress!
                    \_ It's better to be the Speaker of the House.
              \_ Then I'll go to jail.  Yes, the Chinese govt is hypocritic (in
                 that it does it share of histroy distortion and in that its
                 people's "constituional right to protest" only applies to
                 protests that it favors) and this is its wrongdoing.  But like
                 I said above, the Chinese govt's wrongdoing does not
                 un-justify the Chinese people's protest.
2005/4/13-14 [Recreation/Pets] UID:37174 Activity:moderate
4/13    Does it mean anything when an apparently friendly house cat takes a
        swipe at you after you stopped petting it ? I am not the only
        one that this has happened to wrt to this cat.
        \_ People own dogs but cats own owners. You've been owned.
           (dogs see humans as masters, cats see humans as equals)
        \_ that it's a cat.
           \_ seconded
        \_ that it's time to put it down.
        \_ What does "take a swipe at you" mean? walking by you?
        \_ that you're now the cat's bitch and must obey its every order
        \_ apparently friendly? you mean, because it looks like a cat?
           \_ I agree. What makes him think it is friendly? I have a cat
              like this and I make sure to tell visitors that it is not
              friendly.
        \_ the only friendly house cats are dead ones
        \_ Swipe lightly?  He's just playing.  And lightly can still hurt,
           those claws are fucking sharp.
           \_ That's possible too... I've actually seen some cats that are
              smart about this and try real hard not to scratch. Like, he could
              jump onto my back from high up and not use his claws at all, just
              slide around a bit. Our other cat was clueless and had razor
              sharp claws because it didn't walk outside much.
              \_ Cat's claws don't get dulled by walking outside, since
                 they are retractable.
              \_ How much they retract claws depends on their environment
                 when growing up.  Playing with other kittens gives them
                 training in how much they have to retract, cuz they learn
                 that it hurts.  If it was raised w/o other kittens, then
                 it has never learned to retract claws.
2005/4/13-15 [Computer/SW/Compilers, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:37175 Activity:kinda low
4/13    80 column is such a 70ish idea! It's year 2005, 3 whole decades
        later.  Come on guys! It's time to move on! Let's move to 110
        columns. As our resolutions get higher and screens get bigger,
        we can easily afford the 1 column per year trend. Let the 110
        column revolution begin!  -Revolutionist
        \_ 80 columns isn't just about vt100; it is hard to visually
           scan longer lines.  -tom
           \_ You know what's even harder to read? Code that spans multiple
              lines. One statement = one line, them's the rules! It produces
              better, more holistically aesthetic code.
              \_ With Java long method and class names and all those objects
                 and fields calling().here().and().calling.there it's kind
                 of hard to avoid it sometimes. Sad.
        \_ Heathen. Submit to 80 columns or the Fortan IV compiler
           shall smite thee!
        \_ Yeah, yeah get in the fuckin truck.  Time for you to go where all
           all the revolutionists go.
        \_ 110 columns?  I thought the next supported size is 132 columns.
           \- what is the max width for "standard vi"?
              \_ I've used traditional vi on fairly wide terminals (at least
                 140 columns); it seems to work fine as long as the terminal
                 width is a multiple of the tab size.  --mconst
2005/4/13-15 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:37176 Activity:nil
4/13    Question for the sql  gods:  problem: There is an output of a
        rather complicated piece of sql that that lists grpid as one of the
        columns. People prefer to see the GroupName which exists in another
        table along with grpid. The original command involves a count
        and a group by which means that adding a where will not work
        since it will  change the results. Looking thru the sql
        cookbook yielded nothing useful --newbie sql qa guy
        \_ Subselect?
        \_ Join the table with the GroupName and add GroupName to the group by
           clause.
2005/4/13-15 [Transportation/Car] UID:37177 Activity:low
4/13    "Two men on their way to Bible study were attacked by a gunman in
        another car on the Harbor Freeway this afternoon, leaving one man dead
        and a busy road closed as rush hour approached. ... All four windows in
        the victims' car were closed, leading investigators to suspect that the
        occupants had no contact with the assailant's car before the shooting."
        http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-freeway14apr14,0,2212131.story

        "A 13-year-old is in custody today on suspicion of murder after he
        repeatedly struck a 15-year-old with a baseball bat after a Pony League
        game in Palmdale, authorities said. ... Several said Rourke was first
        struck in the knee, and then in the head as he bent over. Others said
        he was first struck on the chin, then the head."
        http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-baseball14apr14,0,2411050.story
        \_ Funny how when a kid who's involved in, say, heavy metal music and
           computer games goes nuts and kills someone the media blame the
           Evil Games.  Yet when a kid who's part of the orgy of
           compettitiveness and mean spiritedness they call "comptetitive
           team sports" goes nuts it must just be a freak accident.
           Fuck baseball.
           \_ In GTA3 you can whack people with a baseball bat. -FriendlyTroll
           \_ Ah, apple pie, baseball and the culture of life.
        \_ Shouldn't great journalism like this blogged about somewhere?
           \_ Why yes ... on the CSUA motd!
2005/4/13-15 [Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:37178 Activity:nil
4/13    Conservatives are getting more aggressive at attacking gays:
        http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/04/13/dueling.days.ap
        \_ Yay!  A day to celebrate the stigmatization and ostracization of
           gay high school students by their peers!  Why didn't I think of
           that?  Can I start "Day of the Mean Jock" to celebrate all the times
           I got beat up in high school for being a computer dork?
2005/4/13-15 [Uncategorized] UID:37179 Activity:nil
4/13    "GGG-Gmail is an experiment in a new kind of webmail, built on the idea
        that you should never have to put up with any wack-ass shit in your
        inbox."
        http://ggg-gmail.com
2005/4/13-15 [Computer/SW] UID:37180 Activity:nil
4/13    Summer internship at a game company for an undergrad:
        /csua/pub/jobs/playfirst (fixed file perms)
2005/4/13-15 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:37181 Activity:nil
4/13    I have 3 250G HDs with lots of videos in my desktop and I'd like to
        make them portable and easily mountable for my laptop. Do you guys
        recommend a detacheable IDE/USB2 drawer thingie, and if so, what kind
        do you guys use? -ok thx
        \_ $38 http://csua.org/u/b4x
           Easy to slide open and stick in a new drive.  Video review:
           http://www.3dgameman.com/vr/ams/venus_ds/video_review_03.html
        \_ What OS?
2005/4/13-15 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:37182 Activity:high
4/13    Yay!  The same Republicans that are saying "we don't have enough money
        to pay for Social Security" just voted to abolish the estate tax,
        which will cost one trillion dollars (including interest on debt)
        over the next ten years.
        \_ Explain the estate tax please...
           \_ Currently estates over $1 million are taxed - I can't remember
              the rate.  This is a very old tax - it was first instituted by
              that flaming liberal Howard Taft.  The Democrats have proposed
              raising the minimum value to something like $2.4 million, which
              would exempt virtually all family farms and small family
              businesses.  The House still voted to kill the whole thing.
        \_ William Buffett:  Removing the tax would lead to the creation of
                \_ Of course, there are *ALREADY* exemptions for family farms
                   and small businesses.  The Republicans don't go out of
                   their way to state that.  In fact, I don't think a SINGLE
                   family farm has had to be sold due to the estate tax.  It's
                   just one more way to shift the tax burden from the haves
                   to the have-nots, and the future generation of have-nots.
                   \_ Well, you think wrong.  Plenty of farms have been sold
                      for this reason.  What do you define as a small family
                      farm, anyway?
        \_ Warren Buffett:  Removing the tax would lead to the creation of
           an "aristocracy of wealth" instead of a meritocracy.
           \_ What's wrong with that? The rich are more well educated and
              have a much better idea than you prolitariats on how to create
              a stable and sustainable economy. I support our corporations and
              the wealthy financiers behind it.
              \_ Mod +5 Funny!
        \_ William Buffett? Is that the "Margaritaville" guy?
           \_ oops, too many hits off the crack pipe
              \_ No, he's the white Jay-Z.  /obscure
        \_ STARVE THE BEAST!1!  The more interest payments the b3tt3r!
        \_ why do you think 10 out 12 richest Congress critters are democrats,
           as are many of the wealthy elite?  You honestly think they pursue
           a political agenda contrary to their personal financial interests?
           \_ Since both Republican and Democratic congresspeople are rich,
              obviously one side is pursuing a political agenda contrary to
              their personal financial interests.
              Hint: It's not the Republicans.  -tom
              \_ there is a difference between self-made entrepreneurs, of which
                 are many Repubs.
                 \_ Exactly. Heinz and Forbes were businessmen and only
                    their wussy offspring are suffering from guilt. More
                    seriously, what makes Tom think that the Democrats are
                    pursuing an agenda that does not benefit them? I never
                    figured him for that sort of sucker.
                    \_ What is your point?  You think that keeping the estate
                       tax is better for the super-rich?  -tom
                       \_ It might be. Where does the tax money go? It may
                          well go to special interests just as well. Do
                          you think the Democrats are trying to help
                          anyone other than themselves? Maybe they are
                          just trying to get re-elected, which in itself
                          benefits them. Don't think they are trying to
                          help poor slobs like us.
                          \_ oh no, an elected official might be doing
                             something because his constituency wants it,
                             not because it benefits him financially!
                             Someone call Tom Delay!  -tom
                             \_ There are rewards for doing what your
                                constituency wants. Most politicians don't
                                have a constituency of poor homeless
                                people, btw. In the end, I'll be surprised
                                if a politician does something that both hurts
                                himself and ruins his career - except fuck
                                interns.
                                \_ There *should* be rewards for doing what
                                   your constituency wants.  -tom
                                   \_ The problem is that the constituency
                                      is dominated by large corporate donors,
                                      powerful unions, and lobbies - special
                                      interests.
                                      \_ I don't think any of these groups
                                         are advocating for the estate tax;
                                         perhaps the unions.  -tom
                                         \_ No, but they might be
                                            advocating against it. The
                                            politicians are just listening
                                            to their constituents, right?
                                            \_ you know, when you change your
                                               point in every single post,
                                               it becomes really difficult
                                               to understand what you're
                                               saying.  -tom
                                               \_ If the Dems are arguing
                                                  against it, then that means
                                                  there is probably something
                                                  in it for them. Else,
                                                  why would they? It is
                                                  naive to think they are
                                                  doing something that
                                                  would 'hurt themselves' in
                                                  order to 'help you'.
                                                  \_ I don't care why they're
                                                     doing it; I care whether
                                                     it is a good idea or not.
                                                     Doing the "right" thing
                                                     for selfish reasons is
                                                     certainly better than
                                                     being a money-grubbing
                                                     asshole and giving huge
                                                     kickbacks to the rich.
                                                       -tom
                                                     \_ What makes it "right"?
                                                        \_ Me.  -tom
                                                           \_ Um, okay.
                                                              \_ who determines
                                                                 what *you*
                                                                 think is
                                                                 right?
                                                                 Rush?  -tom
                                      \_ "dominated" only because money has
                                         been defined as speech.
                                         \_ Exactly.
                                            \_ You agree with that definition?
                                               \_ Sure. Money talks.
                                                  \_ Mmm.. cliches as
                                                     political philosophy.
                                                     When money is speech,
                                                     those with little have no
                                                     voice..  Do you think
                                                     that's in any way
                                                     in line with the spirit
                                                     of a democracy?
                                                     \_ Nope. And?
                       \_ the super rich do not pay the estate tax, and
                          incur an effective income tax rate of less
                          than 10%, if that.
                          \_ prove it.  -tom
2005/4/13-15 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:37183 Activity:kinda low
4/13    Comcast internet service SUCKS!!!
        If you want to be a national ISP you've got to know how to run a DNS
        server.
        \_ Agreed.  It could be worse, though -- at least broken DNS is easy
           to work around.
           \_ Whiny bitches.  If people wanted reliable service, the free
              market would reward a company for providing it.  Clearly,
              people are happy to pay for spotty service.
                \_ One of the great things about "the free market" is that
                   it provide for many a niche.  Some, like me, pay a
                   small premium to a company like speakeasy for reliable
                   and reasonable service (no shutting off access to ports
                   without notice) and others who want a cheap services,
                   without notice) and others who want a cheap service,
                   get it.
                   \_ You know, I think I agree with this.  I'm getting what
                   \_ You know, I think you're right.  I'm getting what
                      I pay for.  --second poster
2005/4/13-15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:37184 Activity:low
4/13    More biased journalism against our glorious workers'^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
        capitalist paradise!  We do not repress our own population!  We do
        not arrest journalists!   Everyone is happy in China, and we hold
        spontaneous group sing-alongss to celebrate our good fortune and
        our beneficient leaders!  This is nothing but Western propaganda!
        "Rural Chinese Riot as Police Try to Halt Pollution Protest"
        http://csua.org/u/bot
        \_ I can only imagine how hellish the country side is given that I
           almost threw up just sitting in traffic in Shanghai.  The vehicle
           fumes were terrible and this was only in January.  We visited a
           rural tourist area and I'm sure it's pretty good by rural
           standards, but the people there still looked pretty damn desperate.
        \_ Yes Chinese media are still under wide censorship though state media
           for years have been reporting on corruption, pollution and other
           problems, often bravely testing, sneaking around, and pushing open
           orthodox limitations; yes freedom to assembly in China is still an
           illusory dream although demonstrations are becoming quite common.
           If you think censorship is wrong, I fully agree with you.  I also
           think it is a shame that most western journalists so readily succumb
           to the worship of ego, money, power and their own tunnel vision,
           when in theory they are so far from real peril or hardship.
           But if you are just bearing a grudge because your own dirty laundry
           is being aired, you deserve to live in North Korea.  And if all the
           junk news you are fed with causes you think mainland China today is
           a rigid society where everybody dance in unison everyday to one dear
           leader, your closed mind is just wasting away.
           \_ No!  There is no censorship!  There is no corruption!  We are
              free to assemble!  And we burst out in song to sing praises of
              the party (in scenes oddly reminiscent of a '50s musical)!  You
              have been systematically misinformed by your biased Western
              media that put a negative spin on everything about China!
              \_ Woah! It's llorTmocihC!
2005/4/13-15 [Reference/Tax] UID:37185 Activity:moderate
4/13    http://tinyurl.com/4bzl9
        This is gonna make the Gates' kids, Walton kids, and Paris Hilton
        very very happy.
        \_ Like it matters. If you're as rich as Gates etc. you would
           have already figured out ways to let the next generation inherit
           your property with minimal taxation. The people who are going to
           benefit the most probably are medium rich people, people with
           assets between 2-10 million bucks.
           \_ why do you hate rich people?
           \- gates is a bad example in this case. --psb
              \_ Why is he a bad example?
        \_ It also makes people who care about the principle happy. -emarkp
           \_ Which principle is that? Getting rid of all taxes and just
              borrowing money indefinitely?
              \_ I'm sure you're capable of thinking of one.  I'll leave the
                 exercise to the anonymous troll. -emarkp
              \_ I sure like to see the IRS get a chunk of wealth from the
                 super rich to finance social programs that benefits me and my
                 family, but what justification is there to tax them when a
                 father passes his wealth to his son while there is no business
                 activity or employment involved?
                 \_ I had to pay a ton of AMT taxes on virtual wealth I no
                    longer have.  The question is, which taxes do you want to
                    raise to compensate for the loss of tax revenue to make
                    up for the money we will no longer be getting from rich
                    dead people.  Small businesses and family farms are already
                    protected, so the "passes his wealth to his son" argument
                    is bogus.
                    \_ How are family farms already protected?
                    \_ 1. Rich dead people don't necessarily pay tax when they
                       were alive.  People who simply hold on to a lot of money
                       don't (and shouldn't) pay tax.  Only people who use that
                       big money to generate income does (and should) pay tax.
                       2. Do you mean which tax we raise comes down to which
                       tax the majority of people want to raise, rather than
                       which tax is justified to be raised?
                 \_ What about the gift tax?
                    \_ Also immoral and socialist.
2017/09/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:April:13 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>