Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:March:31 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2005/3/31-4/3 [Consumer/CellPhone] UID:36989 Activity:nil
3/30    For Treo 650 owners:  I just installed shadowmite's bluetooth dialup
        hack and it works great.  Forget about paying for PdaNet.
2005/3/31-4/1 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:36990 Activity:moderate
3/31    Cal alum donates $30 mil. to UC Irvine:
        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2005/03/31/financial/f061332S04.DTL
        ... continuing the well-documented pattern of low alumni giving at
        UC Berkeley. Question: Why don't alumni donate to Cal? Speaking for
        myself, (1) I'd rather give to specific groups (CSUA, PAAC, UC Jazz)
        which may not report their receipts to the university, and (2) a
        decade of benign institutional neglect left me bitter. -elizp
        \_ This guy gave to UCI because they named their biz school after
           him. That's something Haas would have never done. He can frame it
           any way he wants, but that seems to be the reality. He got his
           BA and MBA from Cal, but his ego meant more.
           \_ Haas school would have never done because this guy didn't donate
              as much as Haas.
           \_ Or maybe he was just pissed at Cal.
        \_ Having just graduated, I haven't given anything to Cal yet, but
           if I were to give something it'd be vastly more likely that I'd
           give to CSUA/EECS/CS than Cal itself, simply because my experience
           with the services provided by the CSUA and the department have
           been that much better than the services provided by the
           bureaucrats in Sproul/associated buildings.
        \_ Maybe he's Republican...
           \_ He's iranian.  Iranian republican under this administration?
              A rare bird, indeed.
              \_  Not true. I know many wealthy Iranians who vote with their
                  pocketbooks. Many others still reminisce of the good old
                  days of the Shah and want regime change. --iranian dem
        \_ I paid out-of-state tuition every semester until I graduated.
           Should I still donate?
        \_ Do I think back warmly on my experience at Cal?  Do I think I
           received a good education here?  If I donated money, do I think
           it would be spent effectively?  No, no, and no.  Why in the world
           would I donate my money to Cal?  If Cal wants donations, maybe it
           should start treating its students as future donors rather than
           unfortunate inconveniences.
        \_ I keep getting this annoying mail from CAL saying I pledged to donate
           $50, can I just keep ignoring it? It doesn't have a # to call or
           anything.
2005/3/31 [Computer/HW, ERROR, uid:36991, category id '31298#0.5' has no name! , ] UID:36991 Activity:kinda low
3//31   http://flag.blackened.net
        \_ your point is?
           \_ Big to-do lately about subpoena of server logs.  Was on slashdot
              I think.  -John
2005/3/31-4/1 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:36992 Activity:high
3/31    Terry Schiavo dies.
        http://www.cnn.com
        \_ Any guesses on coverage ratio of this vs. the scathing WMD report
           that came out today?
           \_ Well, on the major news sites, it's in big print, but it's
              invariably #2 to the Schiavo story.
        \_ is it over now or do we have to put up with weeks of bickering over
           who has burial/disposal rights?
           \_ I give it about 5 days of additional bickering, and then everyone
              will totally forget about it.
        \_ Her name was Terri.  Short for Theresa.  If you don't give a damn
           about it, please don't comment on it.
           \_ woke up on the wrong side of the bed, did we?
              \_ I've been following this case for 2 years.  I never saw it as
                 a "right-to-life" or "right-to-die" issue.  It was a "can a
                 husband kill a wife" issue.  I'm sad that a single judge was
                 able to order her to be killed.  I "woke up" to find out that
                 Terri was dead and all our futures are in danger.
                 \_ can a husband kill his wife and get away with it?
                        \_ ask oj
                 \_ If you could exchange places with someone terminal in
                    excruciating pain in the last few weeks life for an hour
                    I'll bet your entire viewpoint of the situation would
                    change.  All our futures are in danger -- what is the
                    % chance of ending up on life support for 15 years while
                    in a PVS?
                 \_ Of four neurologists who have done a neurological exam on
                    Terri, three said she was in a persistent vegetative state.
                    That's how it is.
                    \_ Actually, it was 8 doctors, 7 concurring.
                      \_ I'd read from CNN or AP (can't remember which) that
                         evidence from 5 doctors was used, 2 from husband,
                         2 from the parents, and one appointed by the court.
                         Unsurprisingly, 2 from parents said she could recover,
                         2 from husband as she wouldn't, and the court
                         appointed doctor said she wouldn't.  So, bascially
                         3/5 with 4/5 giving largely meaningless testimony.
                 \_ How about letting a hospital kill a six month old boy,
                    following a law signed by then governor George W Bush?
                    Um, right, that's somehow different.
                 \_ "a single judge"? the u.s. supreme court refused to hear
                    the case multiple times. 9 judges there. an appeal went
                    to a 3-judge panel on the 11th circuit court. 2 ruled
                    against the schindlers, one for. the full 11th circuit
                    court later upheld that ruling. of the 12 judges, only 2
                    dissented. and lest you argue the "evil liberal judge"
                    tack, the majority of these judges are republican.
                 \_ "can a husband kill a wife"? please. are you one of those
                    religious zealots who relies on the bible for the law
                    (as opposed to the constitution), who doesn't believe in
                    the multiple clinicans who thoroughly evaluated her, who
                    doesn't believe that she made a living will...who, when
                    all those failed you, resorted to a smear campaign
                    against the husband? it sure sounds like it. don't worry
                    about our future so much, it'll be ok.
            \_ Theresa? Can they still make her a saint? Since there's already
               Mother Theresa on the saint track. How do they deal with
               ambiguously named saints?
                           \- there is already a famous st. theresa [of avila].
                              theresa isnt mother therasa's orgiginal name.
                              you are a doofus. --psb
                                        \_ I take pride in not knowing
                                           about saints.  --dufus, patron
                                                              st. of MOTD
                                                \-it's not a matter of being
                                                  versed in the history of
                                                  the church. do you really
                                                  think they turn down people
                                                  because there already is
                                                  somebody with the same
                                                  name canonized? ... "you
                                                  should have considered
                                                  thomas beckett, before you
                                                  started writing summa
                                                  theological, thomas aquinas".
                                                  you have never heard of them
                                                  or st. thomas more? there are
                                                  like 50 or a 100 st. marys.
                                                  what is sort of weird are the
                                                  nuns who pick a man's name
                                                  after taking holy orders.
                                                                   --psb
                                                  \_ I was being facetious
                                                     with the saint question
                                                     and asked about the names
                                                     since it came to mind and
                                                     I'd never considered it.
                                                     I was thinking in type, so
                                                     to speak.
                                                     After that I went to
                                                     http://catholic.org/saints and
                                                     saw the multiplicities of
                                                     certain saint names, many
                                                     don't even have "of Rome"
                                                     or anything else to
                                                     disambiguate. I guess they
                                                     divinely know to which one
                                                     the prayers are directed.
                                           \_ Wait...St Dufus of MOTD or of
                                              CSUA?  Which?  Or are they the
                                              same?  Shit...now I'm all
                                              confused.
                                              \_ It's "Dufus of the CSUA,
                                                 patron saint of MOTDs and
                                                 trolls".
               \_ You shall be named:  St. Dufus of the CSUA
                  \_ Surely there is already a St. Dufus of CSUA? what's the
                     next level of disambiguation?

                     Almighty and eternal God,
                     grant we beseech Thee that,
                     through the intercession of Saint Dufus the lesser of CSUA
                     troller and nuker,
                     during our journeys through the MOTD we will direct our
                     hands and eyes only to that which is pleasing to Thee
                     and treat with charity and patience all those trolls whom
                     we encounter.
                     Through Christ our Lord.
                     Amen
2005/3/31-4/3 [Computer/HW/IO] UID:36993 Activity:nil
3/31    First of all I hate Microsoft and Bill Gates, but I have to give
        them credit for integrating something that is actually somewhat
        usable. I just bought my first Tablet PC, with Tablet XP installed.
        It's got a lot of cool features that don't exist on regular XPs.
        After about an hour playing with it I can almost do everything
        without a keyboard. I love how you can dictate simple voice
        commands and how you can write in Traditional Chinese (with
        amazingly good recognition rate). I love it. I'm never going
        back to regular non-Tablet PCs again.
        \_ gimmick.
           \_ Is that what you said when GUI came out?
        \_ What Tablet PC did you buy?
        \_ Try writing code without a keyboard.
           \_ Yes it's a bitch to write code without a keyboard, that's why
              I got a Toshiba M200 that has both. I get the best of both worlds
2005/3/31-4/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:36994 Activity:high
3/31    "We conclude that the intelligence community was dead wrong in almost
        all of its prewar judgments about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction"
        -Bi-partisan Commision on the Intelligence Capabilities of the
         U.S. Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction, in letter to Pres. Bush
        \_ What fucking difference does it make? "The world is better
           without Saddam", no shit!
        \_ I wonder if this will significantly change the 56% of those polled
           in mid-March that still think Saddam had WMDs.
           \_ That would require people actually paying attention.
                \_ you misspelled "with brains".
                   \_ You don't need brains.  All you need are conservative
                      talk show hosts talking about how "EVERYBODY was wrong"
                      how Dubya ain't a liar, EVERYBODY thought Saddam had
                      them.  Instead, they're all talking about a vegetable,
                      but that's life, uh, the culture of life.
        \_ "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no
           doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of
           the most lethal weapons ever devised. ... The United States and
           other nations did nothing to deserve or invite this threat. But we
           will do everything to defeat it. Instead of drifting along toward
           tragedy, we will set a course toward safety. Before the day of
           horror can come, before it is too late to act, this danger will be
           removed. ... Recognizing the threat to our country, the United
           States Congress voted overwhelmingly last year to support the use
           of force against Iraq." Pres. Bush, 3/17/03
        \_ "The commission said it was ``not authorized to investigate
           how policy makers used the intelligence assessments.''"
           I thought that's what this one was supposed to be...
           \_ Nonono ... they were authorized to investigate whether policy
              makers PRESSURED the intelligence analysts / agencies while the
              intelligence was being analyzed.
              If you were right, then Condi "centrifugue tube" Rice would be
              out as the moronic Stanford Provost that she was.
              \_ Listening to NPR's freshair made me really depressed
              to hear how  many morons are in the State Department and how
              good they are at squashing people who actually come up with
              good ideas. Damn depressing.
        \_ I told you so. -motd thought leader
        \_ So it was for oil right? Yeah prices are at record lows.
           So it was a distraction right? Yeah Iran is going to nuke Israel
           A narrow vision
           \_ It was to assert America's military strength, and change US
              policy to one of aggressive intervention, per PNAC.  -tom
              \_ which is yet more proof that republican men have bad
                 sex lifes  and take it out elsewhere just like the famous
                 quote from Good Morning Vietnam  ... The world would be a
                 safer place if there was alot more sex (and the condoms to go
                 with it)
                 \_ say WHAT? tom holub is a hard core left wing socialistic
                    dweeb and he's not getting any.
                    \_ wrong, kchang.  -tom
                       \_ Tom does seem to take the MotD awfully seriously.
                          Tom, do insults here keep you up at night?
                          \_ No, but yermom does.
        \_ It is not George's fault he trusted the most important decision
           of his life to a guy code named "Curveball."
           http://csua.org/u/bjl
2005/3/31-4/1 [Uncategorized] UID:36995 Activity:nil
3/31    Alan Dundes dies
        \_ Who?
        \_ famous Cal folklore professor, maybe you had a class with him. - danh
2005/3/31-4/1 [Recreation/Shopping] UID:36996 Activity:low
3/31    you know when you go to a really nice tailor they ask you "which
        side do you dress on?"  what this means is "on which side does
        your cock normally rest when you have pants on?"
        \_ BOTH sides
           \_ Holy Forked Phalluses, Batman!
        \_ Serious?  What's the tailor going to do with the info?  Make one
           side of your pants more loose than the other?
           \_ Yes.  Unless you want a schlong-bulge, in which case, if your
              tailor really is a pro, he'll do it without blinking.  Also,
              you're more likely to hitch up your pants differently depending
              on which side--he should even that out without anyone seeing
              your throbbing veiny bang stick.  Or you could just get a
              prince albert.  -John
        \_ right side, would it have anything to do with whether i am left/right
           handed?
2005/3/31-4/3 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:36997 Activity:nil 50%like:37159
3/31    Job available at ISTI in Santa Monica, CA.
        Check out /csua/pub/jobs/ISTI.  Thanks
2005/3/31-4/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:36998 Activity:nil
3/31    Yay!  Wolfowitz elected as World Bank president!
        When you're on the right team, Dubya takes care of you!
        \_ May actually be a good thing.  Wait and see.  At least he's not
           afraid of pissing people off who can use a good pissing off.
           Problem is, he might just piss off everyone else too.  -John
2005/3/31-4/3 [Uncategorized] UID:36999 Activity:nil
3/31    Is there a PDF reader installed on soda like xpdf or acroread?
2005/3/31-4/1 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:37000 Activity:nil
3/31    How to get the best MPG out of a Toyota Prius:
        http://www.mixedpower.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=448
        Look under "Speed, braking, acceleration, and anticipatory driving".
        \_ Reading about the EPA requiring the battery charge to be the
           same at beg. and end of mileage test made me wonder:  Has anyone
           ever investigated any way to charge the battery using solar or
           heat energy?  We all know that cars get baked in the sun during
           the day.  If there were some way to simply charge the battery
           with this energy, you'd have a remarkably low fuel-consumption
           automobile.  Perhaps some process similar to what idealab did
           with the Stirling engine.
           \_ You could charge using solar, but you;d have to install solar
              cells on the car (of course).  Using heat only works if there's
              a heat difference and some sort of Carnot cycle to exploit it,
              such as a Stirling engine.  That's even more of a pain to
              build into a car than solar panels.
              \_ Plus each square meter of solar panel only captures about
                 120-150 wattHour of energy at full sun.  That is not
                 a lot of energy.  I think the Prius has about 70-80
                 kWh of stored energy in the battery.  That'll take a
                 long while to get any meaningful charge into the battery.
                 Probably cost way too much to do it feasibly.
           \_ There is no good way to do what you say, or we'd build power
              plants that way as well as recharge car batteries.
           \_ Put solar cells on the car roof.  But that adds weight, so how
              efficient it is depends on the driving time vs. parking time
              under the sun.  Another way is to put solar cells at the parking
              location.  But then it's no different from ordinary solar cell
              applications, which is not specific to charging vehicles.
2005/3/31-4/3 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:37001 Activity:nil
3/31    You'd think a "liberal" media would be all over this.  As it is
        you have to do your own searching of various Texas newspapers to
        learn about Sun Hudson, the six month old boy who was put to
        death by a hospital, despite his mother pleading for his life.
        Sun Hudson had a fatal disease, but was alive and conscious when
        the hospital staff, following a law signed by George W Bush,
        killed him.
        And Bush says: I urge all those who honor Terri Schiavo to continue
        to build a culture of life where all Americans are welcomed and
        valued and protected, especially those who live at the mercy of
        others.
        Unless "others" excludes hospitals in Texas, and "all Americans"
        excludes six month old boys from poor families.
        \_ Well, don't forget: They were black and not Christian.  So others
           also excludes non-white pagans or atheists.
        \_ What law signed by Bush ordered the hospital staff to kill the boy?
           \_ The Futile Care Law.  It didn't order them to.  It allowed them
              to make the decision, without recourse.  I'm not so much bothered
              by the law, but by the hypocrisy in having signed such a law,
              then sweeping in to the aid of Ms. Schiavo.
        \_ I saw it here:
           http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43311
           but of course people dismiss worldnetdaily because it's full of
           right-wing nuts, right?
           \_ It seems like it would at least be worth mentioning that the law
              this action was taken under was signed by the President.
              \- i think this episode does show the republican controlled
                 legislature has gone nuts ... considering they were repeatedly
                 chastised by multiple judges with solid conservative but
                 not populist credentials. As John Dryden wrote:
                      The moderate sort of men, thus qualifi'd,
                      Inclin'd the balance to the better side:
                          ...
                      But when the chosen people grew more strong,
                      The rightful cause at length became the wrong.
                 --psb
2005/3/31-4/1 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:37002 Activity:high
3/31    So I heard this 'rumor' from someone that a bunch of Hispanic
        people ate at a Chinese restaurant, and decided to make a run
        for it and not pay. The restaurant stopped the last person and
        called the police, but the police fined the restaurant and let
        the person go because the restaurant does not have authority
        to detain anyone. Does this sound right to you guys or am I
        missing something here? What should the restaurant do? This
        supposedly happened in Chicago recently.
                   \_ Bah.  They're buying too many houses anyway.  They
                      deserve to be dined-and-ditched.
                   \- The restaurant may be in the wrong, but that doesnt
                      mean the dine-n-dasher gets off scott free. Both
                      parties can be guilty/liable for different things.--psb
                      \_ So what's the proper course of action for
                         for the restaurant? Is this different from
                         shoplifting?
                         \- There is probably both a civil and criminal
                            claim they could persue. I dont know what they
                            should do. This is one of those stories where
                            you probably hear a bunch of upfront stuff
                            that gets people outraged but you never hear the
                            followup [like the $20million jury award which
                            ends up being whittled down to $1.2m]. --psb
                      \_ can't you citizens arrest them?
                         \_ This largely depends on local statutes
                            and the circumstances. Generally, skipping
                            out on your bill is a petty larceny (unless
                            you're a dining at the Ritz). A private party
                            generally does not have the right to restrain
                            someone they suspect of this low level of
                            crime. If this person was detained against
                            their will and that detention was wrongful,
                            the detained party has a false imprisonment
                            or false arrest claim to which there is no
                            defense.
                            The restaurant's best bet for recovery is
                            in small claims ct under a breach of contract
                            theory.
                                \- dont you think if you were in the shoes
                                   of the restaurant you would be more
                                   interested in the dasher beinf punished
                                   than getting your $30. if the da office
                                   will take it [broken window theory], that's
                                   what i would do. --psb
                                   \_ I agree that I would prefer a
                                      criminal conviction, but a DA will
                                      probably not take the case b/c
                                      he has no interest in wasting a
                                      bunch of time to get a conviction
                                      or plea bargain for a crime that
                                      carries w/ it a max penalty of
                                      $500 or so.
                                      It would be much easier to show
                                      up in Small Claims w/ the bill
                                      and the name of the dude you
                                      detained and ask for damages for
                                      breach of contract. This would
                                      be a 15 min deal.
                                      \- yes but then you have to rely
                                         on the sheriff or whoever to
                                         enforce the $30 collection.
                                         i doubt these people really care
                                         about having a judgement against
                                         them. maybe if something like that
                                         can affect their credit it would
                                         be worth it. in the economic pale
                                         this is a non-starter. i assume
                                         DAs offices spend some amount of
                                         resources on "broken window" crimes,
                                         and if this becomes high profile
                                         [i.e. race card] that could work
                                         in your favor or against [vandalism
                                         to your restaurant]. --psb
                            \_ Hmmm.. Interesting. My question
                               remains, how is this different from
                               shoplifting? You mean the store cannot
                               stop me from walking out with their
                               merchandise without paying too? I don't
                               think that's the case but I don't see
                               the difference here.
                               \_ Generally, in order for a merchant to
                                  detain a person suspected of a crime,
                                  the crime must have been committed in
                                  their immediate presence (watching a
                                  crime on video counts). If the crime
                                  is not witnessed by the merchant,
                                  then they can still detain you but
                                  they risk a false arrest/imprisonment
                                  suit.
                                  As an example, say that you go to Fry's
                                  and you pick up a copy of Chaos Theory
                                  put it in your backpack and try to
                                  walk out the front door. Unless they
                                  saw it all on video or a clerk saw
                                  you give yourself the 5 finger
                                  discount, the highlighter dude can't
                                  stop you from walking out of the
                                  store w/o risking a possible false
                                  arrest suit.
                                  \_ So you're telling me that there's no
                                     legal basis for all detainments made
                                     by store detectives for shoplifting? I
                                     know there was some discussion about this
                                     2-3 years back.  -John
                                  \_ Thanks! I am gonna try that with a
                                     PSP, isn't this country great! ;)
                                     \_ Yup, this country is great for
                                        lawyers.
                                     \_ Before you do this, please
                                        realize that if they choose
                                        to detain you, they might
                                        call the cops who can
                                        arrest you for real. You
                                        would not have an action
                                        against the cops b/c they
                                        acted under probable cause.
                                        Note that the cops could
                                        probably arrest you even
                                        if you had proof (ie a
                                        receipt) that no crime was
                                        committed b/c it is not
                                        the cops job to judge
                                        the proof.
                                        BTW does the PSP cost more
                                        than $500? If so, suspicion
                                        of swiping one would be a
                                        Grand Larceny and you don't
                                        want to go there.
                                        \_ Yes and no.  Police (in CA) aren't
                                           empowered to arrest you for a
                                           misdemeanor crime that they didn't
                                           witness taking place.  On the other
                                           hand, if a citizen wishes to make
                                           a citizen's arrest, they can sign
                                           the 'citizen's arrest' form that the
                                           peace officer has in his car.  Of
                                           course, if it turns out that the
                                           accusation is false (and therefore a
                                           false arrest) ALL the liability
                                           falls on the person that signed the
                                           form.  If the cop is a good one,
                                           he'll warn you if he thinks you're
                                           making a mistake.  So, be wary of
                                           detaining someone, then signing
                                           them into custody on the basis of a
                                           citizen's arrest form -- if you
                                           can't prove your case, you could
                                           lose your shirt.        -POC
                                           \- look the law is more likely to
                                              work in the case of serious
                                              offenses and against people
                                              \_ serious offenses?  like, say,
                                                 felonies?  felony !=
                                                 misdemeanor.
                                              who are not "judgement proof"...
                                              either because they have money,
                                              they have informal or formal
                                              reputations etc. this is even
                                              more the case with "de minimus"
                                              one shot economic stuff. what
                                              ever happened with sloda'
                                              LA vigilante who went after
                                              the bus driver or whatever it
                                              was. --psb
                                              \_ reread, please.  Police can
                                                 make an arrest for possible
                                                 felonies without being there
                                                 to witness the crime.  it's
                                                 not very complicated.  -POC
                                                 \- i'm talking about
                                                    pratical outcomes, not
                                                    what is theoretically
                                                    possible. after my car
                                                    was stolen the people
                                                    who stole it left a
                                                    time stamped receipt
                                                    for a jack in the box
                                                    drive thru where i am
                                                    sure they have a video
                                                    camera. i am also sure
                                                    the police have no interest
                                                    in pursuing this one i
                                                    got my car back. the above
                                                    was (clearly i thought)
                                                    a general comment on
                                                    minor minor crimes
                                                    [broken window]. --psb
        \_ I'm sure BUD DAY has the authority to detain those damn dirty
           wetback spics.
        \_ Are you Chinese? Do you have any of idea of the effect of
           Chinese food on Hispanics?
        \_ Remember those Korean guys with rifles on top of the grocery
           stores during the Rodney King riots, when it turned out that the
           protection rackets would actually have to provide protection for
           real?  Other alternative is to bring their food into line with
           mediocre Chinese food in a lot of places and make the remaining
           check-skippers regret they ever ate there in the first place.  The
           regular college crowd will keep coming regardless, all that cold
           pizza and stale beer makes you immune to whatever ChiCom biological
           warfare agents they put in that shit.  -John
           \_ it's just MSG.
        \_ Walgreens often encourages their managers to run shoplifters down
           with their cars in the parking lot, and to engage them in highspeed
           chase if they get away.  dumb? yes. Illegal? almost certainly.  But
           I know a manager who was yelled at for *not* engaging in a car chase
           after a shoplifter.
                   \_ Bah.  They're buying too many houses anyway.  They
                      deserve to be dined-and-ditched.
                   \- The restaurant may be in the wrong, but that doesnt
                      mean the dine-n-dasher gets off scott free. Both
                      parties can be guilty/liable for different things.--psb
                      \_ So what's the proper course of action for
                         for the restaurant? Is this different from
                         shoplifting?
                         \- There is probably both a civil and criminal
                            claim they could persue. I dont know what they
                            should do. This is one of those stories where
                            you probably hear a bunch of upfront stuff
                            that gets people outraged but you never hear the
                            followup [like the $20million jury award which
                            ends up being whittled down to $1.2m]. --psb
                      \_ can't you citizens arrest them?
                         \_ This largely depends on local statutes
                            and the circumstances. Generally, skipping
                            out on your bill is a petty larceny (unless
                            you're a dining at the Ritz). A private party
                            generally does not have the right to restrain
                            someone they suspect of this low level of
                            crime. If this person was detained against
                            their will and that detention was wrongful,
                            the detained party has a false imprisonment
                            or false arrest claim to which there is no
                            defense.
                            The restaurant's best bet for recovery is
                            in small claims ct under a breach of contract
                            theory.
                                \- dont you think if you were in the shoes
                                   of the restaurant you would be more
                                   interested in the dasher beinf punished
                                   than getting your $30. if the da office
                                   will take it [broken window theory], that's
                                   what i would do. --psb
                                   \_ I agree that I would prefer a
                                      criminal conviction, but a DA will
                                      probably not take the case b/c
                                      he has no interest in wasting a
                                      bunch of time to get a conviction
                                      or plea bargain for a crime that
                                      carries w/ it a max penalty of
                                      $500 or so.
                                      It would be much easier to show
                                      up in Small Claims w/ the bill
                                      and the name of the dude you
                                      detained and ask for damages for
                                      breach of contract. This would
                                      be a 15 min deal.
                                      \- yes but then you have to rely
                                         on the sheriff or whoever to
                                         enforce the $30 collection.
                                         i doubt these people really care
                                         about having a judgement against
                                         them. maybe if something like that
                                         can affect their credit it would
                                         be worth it. in the economic pale
                                         this is a non-starter. i assume
                                         DAs offices spend some amount of
                                         resources on "broken window" crimes,
                                         and if this becomes high profile
                                         [i.e. race card] that could work
                                         in your favor or against [vandalism
                                         to your restaurant]. --psb
                            \_ Hmmm.. Interesting. My question
                               remains, how is this different from
                               shoplifting? You mean the store cannot
                               stop me from walking out with their
                               merchandise without paying too? I don't
                               think that's the case but I don't see
                               the difference here.
                               \_ Generally, in order for a merchant to
                                  detain a person suspected of a crime,
                                  the crime must have been committed in
                                  their immediate presence (watching a
                                  crime on video counts). If the crime
                                  is not witnessed by the merchant,
                                  then they can still detain you but
                                  they risk a false arrest/imprisonment
                                  suit.
                                  As an example, say that you go to Fry's
                                  and you pick up a copy of Chaos Theory
                                  put it in your backpack and try to
                                  walk out the front door. Unless they
                                  saw it all on video or a clerk saw
                                  you give yourself the 5 finger
                                  discount, the highlighter dude can't
                                  stop you from walking out of the
                                  store w/o risking a possible false
                                  arrest suit.
                                  \_ So you're telling me that there's no
                                     legal basis for all detainments made
                                     by store detectives for shoplifting? I
                                     know there was some discussion about this
                                     2-3 years back.  -John
                                     \_ If the Store Detectives did not
                                        witness the shoplifting, then
                                        the detention was probably not
                                        valid. However, there are some
                                        conditions under which there
                                        might not have been any detention.
                                        If the detective tells you to
                                        stop you don't have to comply.
                                        If he physically bars you from
                                        leaving the store it can be a
                                        false imprisonment. If he says
                                        he is going to call the cops
                                        if you leave, then that can
                                        also be false imprisonment.
                                        But if you can leave at any
                                        time and you remain to clear
                                        your name, then it is not
                                        false imprisonment.
                                        Also it can make a difference
                                        if you are suspected of a
                                        felony (grand larceny) vs
                                        a misdemeanor (petty larceny).
                                  \_ Thanks! I am gonna try that with a
                                     PSP, isn't this country great! ;)
                                     \_ Yup, this country is great for
                                        lawyers.
                                     \_ Before you do this, please
                                        realize that if they choose
                                        to detain you, they might
                                        call the cops who can
                                        arrest you for real. You
                                        would not have an action
                                        against the cops b/c they
                                        acted under probable cause.
                                        Note that the cops could
                                        probably arrest you even
                                        if you had proof (ie a
                                        receipt) that no crime was
                                        committed b/c it is not
                                        the cops job to judge
                                        the proof.
                                        BTW does the PSP cost more
                                        than $500? If so, suspicion
                                        of swiping one would be a
                                        Grand Larceny and you don't
                                        want to go there.
                                        \_ Yes and no.  Police (in CA) aren't
                                           empowered to arrest you for a
                                           misdemeanor crime that they didn't
                                           witness taking place.  On the other
                                           hand, if a citizen wishes to make
                                           a citizen's arrest, they can sign
                                           the 'citizen's arrest' form that the
                                           peace officer has in his car.  Of
                                           course, if it turns out that the
                                           accusation is false (and therefore a
                                           false arrest) ALL the liability
                                           falls on the person that signed the
                                           form.  If the cop is a good one,
                                           he'll warn you if he thinks you're
                                           making a mistake.  So, be wary of
                                           detaining someone, then signing
                                           them into custody on the basis of a
                                           citizen's arrest form -- if you
                                           can't prove your case, you could
                                           lose your shirt.        -POC
                                           \- look the law is more likely to
                                              work in the case of serious
                                              offenses and against people
                                              \_ serious offenses?  like, say,
                                                 felonies?  felony !=
                                                 misdemeanor.
                                              who are not "judgement proof"...
                                              either because they have money,
                                              they have informal or formal
                                              reputations etc. this is even
                                              more the case with "de minimus"
                                              one shot economic stuff. what
                                              ever happened with sloda'
                                              LA vigilante who went after
                                              the bus driver or whatever it
                                              was. --psb
                                              \_ reread, please.  Police can
                                                 make an arrest for possible
                                                 felonies without being there
                                                 to witness the crime.  it's
                                                 not very complicated.  -POC
                                                 \- i'm talking about
                                                    pratical outcomes, not
                                                    what is theoretically
                                                    possible. after my car
                                                    was stolen the people
                                                    who stole it left a
                                                    time stamped receipt
                                                    for a jack in the box
                                                    drive thru where i am
                                                    sure they have a video
                                                    camera. i am also sure
                                                    the police have no interest
                                                    in pursuing this one i
                                                    got my car back. the above
                                                    was (clearly i thought)
                                                    a general comment on
                                                    minor minor crimes
                                                    [broken window]. --psb
2005/3/31-4/1 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:37003 Activity:very high
3/31    I own a small Chinese in el cerrito.I called city hall and asked if/how
        I could get a copy of the blue prints.  (I may want to knock down a
        wall or two).  They told me that they would *not* make a copy of the
        blue prints for me as blue prints are copyrighted.  Now it seems to me
        that, as the owner of the damn house, i have a pretty strong fair use
        claim to a copy of the blue prints.  What gives?  What should i do??
        \_ you own the house, not the copyright to the blueprints.  Find out
           who actually owns the blueprint copyright and persue a copy from
           them.
           \_ I did not imply that I did.  There are lots of things that I
              don't own that, none-the-less, I am able to copy for personal
              use.  Get the question now?
           \_ You do not own the picture that I just took of you! ;)
              \_ Actually, he might depending on the circumstances.
              \_ If he's not a public figure and he buys the picture from you,
                 he owns the physical picture and you own the copyright.  If he
                 is a movie star or something, I don't know.
                 \_ are you a lawyer or something? ;)
                    \_ No, but I'm a freelance wedding photog on weekends.
        \_ See if they'll let you inspect the blueprints.  Then take a picture
           with a good-quality camera.
           \- You could also pull a Sandy Burger. --psb
        \_ Hire an architect to draw a blueprint of your building.  That's what
           I did when I remodeled my house when the city didn't have a blue
           print available.
2005/3/31-4/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:37004 Activity:low
3/31    Looking for a decent (and preferable free/cheap) English to Chinese
        and Chinese to English translation program. A while ago I saw this guy
        moving his mouse to select CNN articles, right click on something and
        a pop-up comes up with full translation. That guy is gone and now
        I'm wondering what he uses, and if it's free. Thanks.
        \_ http://babelfish.altavista.com
        \_ http://www.google.com/language_tools
2005/3/31 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:37005 Activity:nil
3/31    I have no problem trusting my life to my other-half. But I DO
        have a problem if he/she is fucking someone else, not to
        mention have 2 kids with them. In that situation, I trust my
        parents more. Think about that for a sec, would you trust your
        'loved' one if they were fucking someone else for so many
        years and then all of a sudden decided that you should
        probably die? The probability of your parents want you dead is
        a lot lower than the probability of your partner want you dead
        for whatever reason there might be. I do agree with Dubya, in
        a situation like this, we should error on the side of life.
        Even if she has no chance of recovery, what's wrong with just
        keeping her alive? How different is this from stopping
        medication to cancer patients because after all, they WILL
        die? Is it because the cancer patients says "oh I want to
        live" and she can't??  If both the parents and the husband
           \_ Your brain has been classified as small.
        believe the tube should be removed to end suffering, then I
        have no problem with that, but if there's a disagreement, then
        there's a disagreement, and I really have a problem with the
        fact the husband have more 'power' than the parents. If he
        wasn't fucking someone else then my position would be neutral.
        But he IS. If he's practically married to the other person,
        then he loses all credibility to decide her life. And why
        doesn't the husband come out and say anything himself?
        Everything is said through the Lawyer, yeah, sure, that really
        helps to show his sincerity. At least the parents have the
        guts to say things to the media themselves and for that I gave
        them credit and was one of the things that swing me from
        neutral to their side. May her rest in peace.
                        -someone who hates GWB
        \_ If I have no brain response, and have no hope of recovery, and
           deteriorate over time, I hope to GOD my spouse would move on with
           her life.  If I told her I didn't want to live that way, I would
           hope she would be my guardian until I was dead.  After the shit
           that was this case, I would be CERTAIN to make a living will.  But
           I sure as hell would not want my parents challenging my own
           decision.  BTW, just how long would you want your spouse to wait
           before moving on with their life?  If doctors told them you would
           not recover?
        \_ Dude, the bitch is dead.  You and your little pro-life freaks
           lost.  Get over it.
        \_ I trust the three out of four neurologists who have conducted a
           neurological exam and deemed her to have been in a persistent
           vegetative state for 11+ years.
        \_ Quit flogging a dead ...    Oh never mind, too easy.
2005/3/31-4/1 [Uncategorized] UID:37006 Activity:moderate
3/31    Nearly every metal object in my office keeps zapping me with static
        charges every other time I touch it. Is there something wrong with
        me or my office?
        \_ Your carpets could just suck, check the soles of your shoes (I
           think leather is a bit better), maybe the humidity is too low,
           or maybe it's the CIA brain implant malfunctioning.  -John
        \_ Hold a key or a coin and use it to touch other metal objects before
           you touch them with bare hards.
        \_ Make sure to include some pins in your tinfoil hat, pointing outward.
           The sharp points will dissipate the static charge back into the
           air for you.
        \_ There could be problems with the grounding in the office.
2005/3/31-4/1 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:37007 Activity:low
3/31    http://csua.org/u/bjk (Yahoo! News)
        "... Goldman Sachs bank, the biggest trader of energy derivatives, said
        prices (per barrel) could ultimately surge all the way above $100."
        Guess I really have to think about carpooling or public transit.
        \_ I would much rather have seen a $4 gasoline price 2 years ago,
           with $2.50 of that tax going to our own gov't, than high gas
           prices going to pay producers and oil companies.
        \_ Sounds like it is time to buy commodities. Should I dump $20K
           into oil?
           \_ That could well be speculative.
           \_ Why not oil stocks?
              \_ Less potential for profit.
2005/3/31-4/1 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:37008 Activity:low
3/31    What's the best way to clean your laptop keyboard?
        \_ throw your laptop in the dishwasher.
        \_ Vacuum cleaner with a nossle.
           \_ last time I did that (with my home vaccuum) I sucked 2 keys out
              of it. Hahaha. Yeah I'm a moron.
                \_ I hear masturbating with a belt sander is fun.
                   \_ No it isn't, and now I can't start my car.
        \_ Compressed air for between the keys.  Clean the keys with something
           like the "optical care kit" available at CostCo (works great on
           laptop displays as well).
           \_ the air comes out as liquid  sometimes, is that dangerous?
              \- only if you are a moron using it as an optical care kit.--psb
        \_ I just bought an LCD Cleaning System by Belkin at Best Buy for
           $10 and it works pretty well.  It comes with a "micro-fine fibers"
           brush for the keyboard and screen as well as a cleaning pad that
           you spray the included cleaning solution onto (Isopropyl Alcohol).
           It also comes with about 5 extra cleaning pads.
2005/3/31-4/2 [Transportation/Motorcycle, Transportation/Misc, Science/Electric] UID:37009 Activity:nil
3/31    Electric Scooter:
        http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/03/ibiza_scooter_1.php
2005/3/31-4/3 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:37010 Activity:nil
3/31    From the "shit I could have told you myself" department:
        "95% of IT Projects Not Delivered On Time"
        http://it.slashdot.org/it/05/03/31/1527257.shtml?tid=218
        \- what %age of IT projects are not worth doing? i sure see
           a lot of churn which involves people trying to justify
           their jobs. if an organization grows 5% over 10yrs but
           computers become 10x more powerful and 1/5th the size,
           some stuff is upgraded too often needlessly.
           \_ Sure, but not all upgrades are needless due to continual
              increases in number crunching and data storage demand, and a lot
              of systems which really ought to be upgraded, aren't.  I think
              most of the waste comes from inefficient process-heavy
              organizations.  -John
2005/3/31-4/1 [Uncategorized] UID:37011 Activity:nil 66%like:37991
3/31    [commentless url excised]
2005/3/31-4/1 [Transportation/Car] UID:37012 Activity:nil
3/31    Thieves cut off finger to start up Mercedes, which requires biometric
        start-up: http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000680038409
        \_ Same thing happened when only the bank manager could open bank
           vaults-- great idea, until they kidnap that guy and his family.
        \_ Darn and I thought my biometric Mercedes keyed to my penis was
           a good idea ... back to the dealer with that baby!
           \_ It's still a good idea since no one can cut off your short penis.
2005/3/31-4/1 [Uncategorized] UID:37013 Activity:low
3/31    Fully mechanized bot, shooting 48 40mm grenades at enemies. Now you
        can serve at the comfort of your seat. It's like playing video games.
        \_ what do you do about tk'ers?
        \_ combine this with the remote hunting setup and we can have armchair
            soldiers!
2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/22    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:March:31 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>