Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:March:26 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
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2005/3/26 [Academia, Academia/StanfUrd] UID:36891 Activity:high
3/26    I don't get it.  Why didn't the Schindlers get some well respected
        neurologists to do an exam on her?  They already presented two at
        trial:  one of them was a quack, and the judge ignored the other one.
        If they could have gotten a prominent neurologist to back their claims
        when her eyes and tongue weren't bleeding, maybe an appeals court
        would have ordered the tube re-inserted.
        The William Chesire opinion was based on watching edited video, and he
        did not bother to do a neurological exam, and he does not explain why.
        If Michael Schiavo blocked further neurological exams, don't you think
        this would be the main complaint by the Schindlers?  Something like,
        "He doesn't want neurologists to see her!"
        The only conclusion to me is that the Schindlers CAN'T get a competent
        neurologist to back their opinion.  The weight of science is with
        Michael Schiavo.  Her condition hasn't changed in 12 years, and there
        are ~ 4 known cases where those judged to be in a permanent
        vegetative state have come back -- and that happened 2 years into the
        PVS at most.
        \_ most likely, well respected doctors are reluctant to take up this
           case. If you know your odds at low, why take it up when it can
           ruin your medical reputation?
           \_ Why would a Mayo Clinic doctor visit the patient and not
              conduct a neurological exam?  Why didn't he say something like,
              "Michael Schiavo prevented me from doing the full exam!" or
              "I didn't have enough time!" or "The courts prevented me!".
              The guy is biased.
              How about:
              "He generally has a reasonably thoughtful, conservative
              Christian right-to-life perspective," said David Magnus,
              co-director of the Stanford University Center of Biomedical
              Ethics. "He definitely is not a neutral party with respect to
              these culture wars. He has turf to defend."
              "I think he is clearly biased against declaring her in a
              persistent vegetative state," said Dr. Gene Sung, director of
              the neurocritical care section of USC's department of neurology,
              who read Cheshire's report. "He feels there is something there.
              That is not a scientific nor medical decision -- it really
              sounds like it's a personal feeling. It's hard to reconcile that
              with a medical decision."
        \_ you can't do nuerological exams if the courts bar you from doing
           so.  Cheshire examined Terri for 45 minutes in person, essentially
           the same time as the other neurologists who had testified in the
           earlier trial for the state and for Felos.  You have to understand
           access to Terri is heavily restricted by the court.
        \_ I'm not sure under FL state law, but at least under the fed rules,
           you can't have a medical exam conducted till you get to discovery
           and even then you need a ct order. The case in fed ct is no where
           close to discovery.
           BTW, an appellate ct rarely, if ever, asks for new evid to be
           presented to it.  If her parents wanted to present new medical
           they would have had to make the appropriate motions in trial
           ct and then if the motions were refused, they would have had
           to ask the appellate ct to allow the motions b/c the trial
           ct erred as a matter of law or it abused its discretion.
           \_ To the two folks above:
              Even though it's kind of too late, as I already suggested, I
              believe if Michael Schiavo had allowed it, then a neurologist
              could have performed a neurological exam on her.  If Michael
              Schiavo was not allowing it, then this is what the Schindlers
              should have been complaining about.
              Since they were not complaining about it, I don't think they
              cared about the objective truths that may have come out from
              another neurological exam from a competent doctor.
              By the way, the exam by Chesire was notably NOT a neurological
              exam, and he hasn't explained why.
              http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2005-jax/2724.html
              \_ Certainly if he allows it, an exam can be conducted.
                 However, an exam may be conducted even if he does
                 not agree to it as part of a discovery order from
                 ct b/c her medical condition is at issue.
                 \_ no it can't.  The court, ie. the legally blind judge
                    greer, has forbidden any such examination repeatedly.
                    Terri has not had any neurological tests since those
                    cat scans, period.
                    \_ AFAIK, the judge's orders barring tests were in
                       response to motions to compel the tests. If the
                       parents moved for a motion to compel the tests
                       and the husband did not oppose, then the motion
                       would have to be granted. Refusal to grant an
                       unopposed motion can be immediately appealable.
2005/3/26 [Uncategorized] UID:36892 Activity:high
3/26    Terri Bleeding From Eyes and Mouth
        http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/26/80255.shtml
        \_ I wonder if all the people who talk about starving to death as
           peaceful are referring to the elderly who simply stop eating and
           drinking as they near death?  It seems to me the body naturally
           shutting down is different than yanking a feeding tube. -emarkp
           \_ All the more reason to allow physician-assisted suicide.
           \_ Feeding tubes are considered an "extraordinary measure," and
              are a recent (1970s) innovation.  Though different than a
              respirator, the outcome is essentially the same - the person
              cannot live without the machine.  FWIW, Schiavo will die from
              dehydration long before she dies of starvation.
2005/3/26-28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:36893 Activity:low
3/26    Apologies for annoying wall script, wasn't intentional, must have
        been an alias gone wrong or something from lack of sleep on long
        trip.  No clue what it was/is.  -John
        \_ eh? What happened?
           \_ Some kind of 'oops' that spammed wall every time I got mail.
              No idea.  -John
        \_ You would have been squished in the good 'ol [totalitarian] politburo
           \_ No, because I would have had physical access to both the CSUA
              bat and to the good 'ol [totalitarian] politburo.  -John
2005/3/26-28 [Reference/Religion] UID:36894 Activity:low
3/26    This dilbert comic really reminds me of the motd.  If you point
        out a flaw in someone's reasoning, you're immediately an evil
        religious right-winger, or a left-wing moonbat, depending.
        link:csua.org/u/bi3
        \_ Rationally considered, I don't think you have a very good argument,
           you fascist homosexual activist.
           \_ Bite me, you fanatical uber-religious socialist.
        \_ Why do you hate America?
2005/3/26-28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36895 Activity:nil
3/26    The motd has been so censorship-free during spring break.  This makes
        me think the motd censor is a student - but that's not possible!  Why
        would a non alum read the the motd, let alone care about it enough to
        censor it so often?
        \_ some alum are still students
        \_ We are the old, wise curmudgeons who will harass you towards the
           path of righteousness in the real world (and maybe hire you.) -John
2005/3/26-28 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Investment] UID:36896 Activity:nil
3/26    Interesting thoughts on the future direction of interest rates,
        inflation, the murkiness of macroeconomonic policy, etc.
        http://www.morganstanley.com/GEFdata/digests/20050325-fri.html#anchor0
        \_ Dense reading, difficult to understand for those who didn't major
           in world economics or business (I'm just a dumb EECS major, I know
           a lot about circuits but nothing else). Can you PLEASE summarize?
           \_ Inflation is going up, interest rates are going up. This is
              happening in Europe too. Japan is still having a deflation
              problem, but it might start to go away.
2005/3/26-30 [Computer/SW/Database, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:36897 Activity:nil
3/26    FBI to scratch their Virtual Case File after squandering millions of
        dollars. So here is my question. How is it implemented? Is it using
        Java/J2EE/Sybase or C or something else?
        http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151421,00.html
        \_ They probably followed these guidelines:
           http://mindprod.com/unmain.html
        \_ according to infoworld, it was done in java, and is more or less
           a standard enterprise-ish kind of app. it seems like it's lack of
           good and stable requirements that killed them.
2005/3/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:36898 Activity:insanely high
3/26    I think it's pretty clear the American public is being intentionally
        distracted from something right now by all this bullshit.  But what
        is it?
        \_ Maybe the fact that we haven't got any sort of contingency plan
           for when oil prodcction can no longer meet the rate of increasing
           consumption? Just a thought.
        \_ Yer right.  Michael Schiavo made a deal with Dick Cheney to pull
           out the tube while the VP was busy dealing with some unexpected
           tapes of Condi-Dubya "69" action.
           \_ more like DeLay and Frist and all the rest have been watching
              and waiting for the perfect case with which to bring this
              issue to the forefront of public discourse. I'm more skeptical
              about this being some kind of "cover up" ... and rather just
              a way for Bush Dick et al to throw a bone to the christian
              nut jobs who he's pissing off by letting them down on the
              marriage amendment, etc etc.
        \_ Let's bomb Iran!
        \_ Massive protests in Taiwan: http://tinyurl.com/6vtmv
        \_ euthansia and killing mentally handicapped people is not an
           issue worth your attention, eh?  Well, I hope in the future
           you are put down when you get old or are mentally incapicated,
           and leave no living will.
           \_ Go fuck yourself.
              \_ go euthansize yourself.  Here's your logic, someone
                 is a murderer, kills a cop for example like Mumia,
                 give him 30 years to go through the Fed courts and
                 deify him as a victim.  A woman is mentally incapicated
                 and her husband remembers she wants to die 7 years
                 later after receiving 1 million in money that
                 is deemed to be spent on recuperation but isn't,
                 starve her to death.  I hope you and your children
                 embrace and enjoy the culture of death you are creating.
                 \_ Hi, motherfucker.  So I guess you figure that once the
                    constitution and the rule of law have been suspended,
                    everything will be fine as long as your little club
                    happens to be in charge.  Fuck you.  I hope the next
                    federal abuse of power is you getting executed with no
                    trial...because that's exactly where the present abuses
                    of federal power are heading.
                    \_ the Constitution grants to right to starve the
                       mentaly incapacitated on the sole basis of compromised
                       testimony from someone who may inflicted the injury
                       in the first place?.  That was summarized in
                       Federalist 12, right?  This was one of most heated
                       points of discussion at the Constitutional Conv.,
                       right? Honestly, have you ever even read the
                       Constitution?  I suspect you are ignorant of the
                       facts surrounding this case and are projecting your
                       irrational vitrol towards anyone who is not a
                       Communist on this poor women. It's ok to starve a
                       mentally incapacitated woman who has not received
                       due process but god forbid we disturb a few elk on
                       a barren tundra.
                       \_ I am not pp, but your argument re this poor
                          woman's constitutional rights are flawed.
                          There is something more important at stake
                          here than whether this woman lives/dies:
                          Are we a nation of laws or men?
                          \_ Law, but the law is not an end in and of itself.
                             I can't take a side in this gigantic tragic
                             clusterfuck of a personal and legal travesty, as
                             I really don't know what I would do (this sort of
                             reminds me of the "would you use torture even
                             though it violates your laws and principles if
                             innocent life is at stake?") but it's pretty
                             clear to me that, either way, some part of the
                             judicial and democratic processes has failed
                             pretty horribly.  -John
                             \_ Laws are instituted among men so that
                                we may order and plan our affairs better.
                                Whether or not you like the result in
                                this case, the laws have served their
                                proper purpose.  Simply b/c the result
                                is not palatable to some, is not a
                                reason to throw out the laws and
                                take an opinion poll to decide what
                                should be done.
                                BTW, the only way that you can say
                                the judicial process has failed is
                                if you think that the trial ct judge
                                hugely screwed up in the original
                                \_ As I recall there was some discussion
                                   about various expert opinions, some video
                                   tape that wasn't used, etc.  I don't know
                                   the specifics, honestly, but the whole
                                   thing just reeks of "fuckup".  -John

                                   \_ Actually, the stuff that the
                                      media is making a big deal
                                      about (experts, video,
                                      hearsay, &c.) are things
                                      that frequently get messed
                                      up at trial but are generally
                                      not grounds for a new trial.
                                proceedings.  This is not likely
                                given that the record has now been
                                reviewed by the FL Appellate Ct,
                                the FL Supreme Ct, a FL Fed Dist Ct,
                                and the 11th Cir Ct of Appeals.
                                I somewhat agree that the democratic
                                process has failed, b/c congress
                                clearly overstepped its bounds.
                          Yes the constitution does not grant the
                          right to starve a mentally incapacitated
                          woman. However, the constitution does
                          limit the power of the fed gov/judiciary
                          (see Art. 3 Sec 2).
                          This is a dispute about whether her husband
                          or her parents have the right to decided
                          when to end her life.  The dispute is
                          governed by state law.
                          In creating original jx for a particular
                          fed ct to rehear her claim from scratch
                          congress has extended the power of the
                          fed cts beyond what the constitution
                          allows: the fed cts cannot hear state law
                          claims w/o diversity, which does not exist
                          here. [Yes Art 3 allows congress to enact
                          legislation that delineates the powers of
                          the fed cts, but that power must be w/in
                          the limits set by Sec 2.]
                          WRT 14th amd due process claims, due process
                          means that her rights are adjudicated in
                          ct w/o being subject to material errors.
                          In this case there is no evid that the cts
                          of FL have screwed up and have violated any
                          state or fed statutory or constitutional
                          right this woman has. Thus due process
                          has not been violated.
                          WRT 8th amd cruel and unusual punishment,
                          this is not applicable to her case.
                          Re ANWR, I have no opinion. Drilling may
                          be a good short term soln, but long term
                          soln are needed as well.
                 \_ As long as you and yours are first in line, we will.
              \_ The "facts" your screed is based on are lies and half truths.
                 You need to educate yourself before spreading this
                 propaganda further. What is your purpose in doing this?
           \_ As a resident of FL, that poor lady is subject to the
              laws of FL. Her rights have been properly adjudicated
              under that law. There is no reason for me or for the
              feds to get involved in what is essentially a private
              matter covered under state law.
              \_ Can they move her to another state or country? Will
                 her rights then change?
                 \_ If she was in a different forum, her rights may
                    be different (state law/constitution can give
                    you all sorts of rights beyond what the fed
                    versions do, same goes for foreign countries).
                    One of the compromises that we make in order to
                    live in a given part of the world is that we are
                    sub to the laws of that part of the world.
                    \_ Could she be moved? Who determines that?
                       \_ Her primary caregiver.
                \_ Your whole line of argument is based on a bunch of outrighT
                   lies and misinformation. Either you are deliberately
                   misinforming people or you are passing on falsehoods.
                   You need to educate yourself before spreading this
                   propaganda further.
        \_ Tom DeLay is a disgusting hypocrite. What a surprise:
           http://csua.org/u/bi5 (LA Times)
           \_ The cases aren't even remotely similar.  If Terri had been on the
              same equipment as DeLay's father, there wouldn't be an outcry.
              Terri's "life support" consists of food and water.  Can we
              disconnect your life support too? -emarkp
              \_ Unlike Terri, I feed myself and drink on my own.
                 \_ So Christopher Reeve should have been put down?  How about
                    infants? -emarkp
                    \_ you're very good at coming up with new red herrings.
                         -tom
        \_ ANWR just got opened up. Bankruptcy bill just got passed, making
           it safe for CEOs to continue running companies into the ground.
2005/3/26-27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:36899 Activity:low
3/26    Hello, I have a 220 gig IDE drive in a firewire enclosure,
        using one giant FAT32 partition.  My FreeBSD machine
        refuses to mount it.  What do I do?  - danh
        \_ Does the bridge board in the controller support lba48?
        \_ USE LINUX!  (damn it felt good to say that)
2005/3/26-28 [Uncategorized] UID:36900 Activity:nil
3/26    Someone please recommend a good shareware that displays slide shows
        and gives you decent transitions, etc? And flexibility, like showing
        certain GIFs in the morning (weather, traffic) and showing family
        pictures at night? -ok thx
        \_ xv + cron + imagemagick
2005/3/26-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:36901 Activity:moderate
3/26    I want to learn a martial art for health reasons. I took Tai Chi
        once (a few month's worth) but otherwise have no experience.
        Keeping fit, ease of learning, and practicality (I'd like to be
        able to defend myself) are important - in that order. Which
        discipline should I learn? I am a little Chinese.
        \_ You might consider looking into Wing Tsun with Simon Mayer, or
           Ju Jitsu.  There are several JJ people here on motd -- perhaps
           one or more of them can be persuaded to talk about their club.
        \_ I guess it's a bit impractical for self-defense, but I did kendo
           for a while, and really enjoyed it.  I found the people to be
           generally pretty enthusiastic and friendly towards newcomers,
           and the sport to be a good balance between learning self-control
           and concentration, and screaming and jumping around a lot and
           beating on people with sticks.  Only drawback is the price of the
           equipment.  -John
        \_ Where are you located right now?  Your ethnicity has nothing to
           do with what you study, btw.  There are a lot of arts out there,
           most of which will offer you what you need.  UC Berkeley has a
           fairly decent martial arts program - Email me offlist if you
           have any questions regarding my experiences with that program.
           -chaos
           \_ I was told I could not study Brazilian or Israeli Martial Arts.
              -Chinese
              \_ Unless this is a troll, or they were kidding, that's illegal.
           \_ Some other idiot added the Chinese part. I don't care enough
              to remove it. I am in the Los Angeles area now, btw.
           \_ How could any sodan be so gullilbe as to take that as part of a
              serious question?  If that jerk added "I am a little jew/arab/*"
              instead, would it at least raise some alarm in your head?
              \_ You may not know this but a lot of sodans are little Chinese.
              \_ [stupid]
              \_ I don't give a fuck.
2005/3/26-30 [Computer/HW/Display] UID:36902 Activity:nil
3/26    Is there an easy way to hook up a Cable/Satellite Tivo tuner to
        a monitor that has VGA and DVI inputs? I just ordered a 20" widescreen
        display and was wondering if I could use it to watch TV.
        \_ If it's one of the Dell ones, it should have an s-video input.
           Otherwise, no, you'll need to find and buy an adapter.
           \_ It's a Dell, cool. Are there any advantages of the Mac 20"
              display other than the cool silver look? It's more expensive
              , has lower contrast, lower brightness, and no S-Video.
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:March:26 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>