Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:March:09 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/3/9-10 [Reference/Tax] UID:36591 Activity:nil
3/9     Anyone have a promotion code for a Turbotax State discount?
        Federal's free this year, but it'd be a shame to have to pay full
        price for State.
        \_ Promotion code?  I had to pay to download.  Then I submit a
           rebate form to cover the price.  Did that last year too, probably
           the year before that too.  Used to be it came as an .exe that
           you could give to your friend, but this year, they hid the download
           process in the interface, and I couldn't locate it on my hard drive.
           The "free" State comes with Deluxe, as usual.
        \_ I've always heard that the government save on electronic filing,
           by not having to scan.  There are lots of free tax filing options
           available - why isn't turbotax filing free yet? (you already have
           to pay for the program, who is getting the filing charge $$?)
           \_ Your first federal filing (and state, with Deluxe) can be
              reclaimed on rebate.  If you have friends or family members
              using the same copy of TurboTax, they need to pay - since there's
              only one set of rebate forms per box.
              \_ So it is purely a mechanism by which Intuit can charge for
                 additional uses of one program CD?  I don't like hassling
                 with rebate forms/checks, so I just printed and emailed the
                 taxes instead, to be done with it.  But I'm annoyed that the
                 system doesn't work more efficiently...
2005/3/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:36592 Activity:high
        Hilary Clinton may run in 2008. WTF are the Democrats thinking? First
        they bring in the oh so boring Goring, then the uncharismatic Kerry,
        and now this? How lame can they be    -disillusioned, former democrat
        \_ in other news, her financier pleads guilty to massive
           fraud, and her finance director is indicted.
           Ex-Stan Lee Chief Peter Paul to Plead in Securities
           Case (demands Hillary to "take responsibility")
           Obviously this is part of the VRWC
           Obviously this is part of the VRWC -Disillusioned Freeper
        \_ Look, if you are a former democrat, we aren't really interested
           in your opinion. She *might* run. If you were a democrat, you
           *might* have something to say about it. But you don't, so shut
           up. I personally think she is a great candidate. -former independent
           up. I personally think she is a great candidate. It is listening
           to people like you that got us John Kerry. Howard Dean would
           have been the candidate if the Democrats had any sense. He either
           would have A) won outright or B) energized the party by adding
           millions of enthusiastic young people to it. Instead we got
           boring Kerry. -former independent
           \_ Dipshit, the party was energized.  Kerry got far more votes than
              Gore did, and raised more money than any candidate ever except
              GW in the same election.  Let's face it: Kerry didn't lose, Bush
              \_ Are you former democrat?
                 \_ I'm a former independent.  I joined so I could vote in the
                    2004 primary. I supported Dean until he dropped out, but
                    I genuinely liked Kerry, and was happy to support him for
                    the remainder of the race.
              \_ Droopy face didn't have a chance.  What we really need is a
                 character who isn't going to be owned by a weak accusation
                 like "flip flopper."  Kerry did not have the charisma nor
                 the strength to beat Bush and we are getting killed or it
                 now.  You need someone that people can like, like frat boy
                 Bush, to actually get some votes.  -mrauser
                 \_ Look, it is hard to beat an incumbent president.  Since
                    the Great Depression it has only happened three times;
                    once after Watergate, and twice during significant
                    recessions.  "We didn't beat the incumbent" is the
                    expected result.  We don't need to wring our hands
                    about what we did wrong; I do think we need to figure
                    out what the message will be in 2006/2008.  I wish
                    the Democrats would do a better job of not letting
                    Republicans frame the issues.  -tom
                    \_ Not to disagree with you, but
                       Ann Coulter framing the issues:
                       \_ Ann "the best way to talk to a liberal is with
                          a baseball bat"  Coulter? Is that the kind of
                          framing you refer to???
                          \_ Coulter's spittle is not really what I'm referring
                             to.  It's more like things like "death tax" or
                             "welfare reform", where the Republicans have
                             managed to frame the debate in such a way that
                             the Democrats argue not over whether the
                             Republican ideas are fundamentally wrong, but
                             over how to implement the Republican ideas in a
                             different way.  -tom
                                       \- That is Grover Power.
                          \_ Are you ready?  Are you?  Here comes...
                             "Howard Dean - chairman of the party that supports
                             murder, adultery, lying about adultery, coveting
                             other people's money, stealing other people's
                             money, mass-producing human embryos for spare
                             parts like an automotive chop shop and banning
                             God - has called the Republican Party 'evil.'"
                             Feel the love.
                             \_ I got a granny who's never seen an online
                                forum that could troll better than this.
                      \_Say what you will about my Darlin' Anne, THIS is funny:
                        "Aspiring first lady Teresa Heinz claims the election
                         was stolen through the machinations of a vast
                         conspiracy involving Republican polling machine
                         manufacturers. We eagerly await a Michael Moore
                         documentary to flesh out the details."
                         \_ THIS is an old gag is what it is but whatever
                            floats your boat...
2005/3/9 [Computer/SW/Unix, Computer/SW/Languages] UID:36593 Activity:high
3/8     Favorite shell colors?
        White on black: ...
        Black on white: ..
        \_ Does it still count as black on white if you have transparency
           turned on in Terminal.App, but its primarily black text on a
           "white" background?
        \_ And here I read this question about what color shell I should
           wear under a suit.  I thought the choices were egregious.
        Multicolor on anything: .
        Amber on black: .
        \_ Amber sounds nice, how do you set that?
           \_ I use RGB 255,160,0 old monitors.  --op
        \_ Me too -- RBG 189, 174, 81 with about 30% transperancy
           on the black background. Cursor and highlight text dark and
           light blue, respectively.
        \_ Amber reminds me of the old 80x25 monochrome days.
        Green on black: ..
        Yellow on black: .
        Yellow on black: ..    (Yellow on black has a very high vis. contrast.)
        \_ light gray on black: .
        Wheat on black: .
        \_ tan on dark green: ..
           \_ heh, i think that's the default i started out with that
              eventually led to me using wheat on black -pp
        SGI colors - white on midnight blue: .
        Back in Black: .
        Asian on White: .
        Blacks on Blondes: .
2005/3/9-10 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:36594 Activity:nil
3/9     OpenSSH 4.0 is out:
        Nifty new feature is the connection multi-plexing.
        \_ What is that?
           \_ Once you start one connection to a remote system, other
              connections will use the same key pair so you don't have
              to pay the cost of a new DH exchange (at least this is
              the impression I got from reading the mailing list)
2005/3/9-10 [Consumer/Camera] UID:36595 Activity:high
3/9     I just watched "Bend it Like Beckham" last night, and I was
        wondering if anyone could tell me what's up with the scene where,
        during the wedding, a bunch of guys beat up the camera man and try
        to steal his camera.  What was up with that?
        \_ One of the guys involved in the scuffle was makin' out in the
           bathroom with that one girl, so I assume that was her bf.
           It did seem a rather random scene.
           \_ I just found this:
           \_ I just found:
              \- "there is always a fight at an indian wedding".
                 This is basically true. --psb
                 \_ Are you going to have a wedding like that psb?  Will you
                    invite me? -jrleek
                    \- I just sulk and skulk at indian weddings ...
                       \_ What are you wearing?
                 \_ Maybe in north indian weddings or non-bramhin
                    \- There is a funny line in monsoon wedding about
                       panjabis vs bengalis at wedding and such.
                        \_ I can't believe that you of all people
                           watch such trash
        \_ The coach in that movie is the biggest eurofag...
           \_ You now know what you need to do to attract chix.
              \_ Gah.  Do you think it's worth it?
2005/3/9-10 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:36596 Activity:moderate
3/9     American civil engineers give our infrastructure a D+, say we need
        1.6 trillion in repairs.  I say BRING ON MORE TAX CUTS!!!!!!11! (yahoo news)
        \_ Even better idea, stop fighting wars we don't need to fight.
           That would give us about half the money needed to repair
           \_ Are you crazy?  We're going to NK next, and we're getting
              there by invading Iran, Russia, and China!
              \_ Don't forget Syria.
        \_ Isn't infrastructure mostly a state issue?
           \_ This depends on the scale of the project. The ASCE report card
              targets mid-scale and larger project so the direct fed
              role is large right off the bat. The indirect effect is that as
              the fed gov't backs off of funding joint projects, states have
              less to spend on the smaller stuff (roads and bridges and such)
              that are 100% their responsibility. The real problem with the
              report card is its inherent bias, IMHO. It would be good to hear
              the story from another source. If nothing else it would lend the
              findings more credibility. -- ulysses
              \_ John! How is infrastructure in that Eurofag country of yours?
2005/3/9-10 [Uncategorized] UID:36597 Activity:low
3/9     Best place to get inexpensive eyeglasses?
        \_ Korea
           \_ I meant, in the Bay Area.
           \_ thanks.  but how do you buy glasses online?  Don't you want
              to check how it fits, how it looks on you?
              \_ Bah.  We're nerds.  We don't have to look good.
                 \_ The line has to be drawn somewhere.  I drew it with the
                    glasses frames that my graduate advisor sarcastically called
                    "sporty".  I had gotten the cheapest frames lensecrafters
                    offered, and after than I went and got real frames from a
                    real place.
2005/3/9-10 [Finance/CC] UID:36598 Activity:moderate
3/9     To the person who ranted about having been owed money and trying to
        collect:  I've loaned people money in the past, but only to people
        I had reason to trust to be able to pay it back.  I haven't been
        burned yet.  The credit card companies seem to want to skip that little
        piece of the puzzle.  They have predatory lending practices, and they've
        finally been able to pour enough money into congress to give them
        rule over those they snare.  Of course you can reject credit, cut up
        your cards, and trim down your consumption to live within your means,
        but as a general rule americans don't.  There's nothing in this bill
        to address foolish lending practices.  All the "blame" is put on the
        consumer.  Indentured servitude was as bad then as it is now.
        \_ It's quite apparent that you A) don't own any real estate and
           B) You've never been in business. If you've never been shafted
           by a deadbeat then you've probably never done any real business
           before. Unfortunately the real world is quite different from
           your ivory tower fantasies, and people lie, cheat and steal.
           When you're running a business over an extended period of time
           you'll eventually meet people like these, and you'll eventually
           have to deal with them. Let's face it folks, you can't attribute
           a 360% increase in BKs to anything other than consumer
           incompetence. Let's stop blaming everyone else for the problem
           and address the real issue, people have to stop incurring
           so much damn debt. As for the credit card companies (and
           for that matter banks) , I say we highly regulate them in
           return for the legislation they want past. That'll make it
           even on both sides of the fence.
           \_ Lenient bankruptcy rules ENCOURAGE entrepreneurship.  You can
              take the risk without having to worry about being completely
              destitute and indebted for life if things go south.  Btw, do you
              have a source for the 360% number you keep spouting?
              \_ Yes, it was on the linked page of the first post, so unless
                 you want to get irritated by the OP of the first post
                 bemoaning the bill, don't even go there.
                 Read the archive to get all the numbers. If you don't read the
                 fucking links then why do you even fucking comment? The
                 time period was measured from around 1984 to around 2000.
                 Also, encouring entrepreneurship this way is highly
                 questionable. Apparently you either have an exceedingly
                 short term memory or are just dumb. Ever heard of the dot-com
                 \_ tell me, what happened to all those dot coms that declared
                    bankruptcy?  Did they have to pay money to everyone they
                    fradulently issued stock options to?  Did the CEOs have
                    to give back their multi-million dollar salaries?  -tom
                    \_ CEOs defrauding companies of money should have had to
                       give it back.  CEOs using legal loopholes for large
                       salaries?  Change the law, that's what it's there for.
                       As for options, same as above, if they were issued
                       under the letter of the law, nobody forced anyone to
                       work for a .com.  I see where you're coming from, but
                       .coms with all the associated stupidity and greed are
                       not a good example.  -John
           \_ of course, it's totally fine for *businesses* to run up huge
              debts and bilk their employees and investors while the board
              members earn multi-million-dollar salaries and golden parachutes.
           \_ speaking of americans running up huge damn debts, what's the
              per-taxpayer federal debt at now?  $30,000?  More?
              \_  26,000 is thier quote,
                 it scares me all the time that the US owes THAT much money.
                 I don't see how that can ever be paid back. -mrauser
        \_ More importantly the person ranting about the increase in
           bankrupcies was missing a key point.  Bankrupcies have gone
           up at the same time that saftey nets have gone away.  The vast
           majority of cases (I seem to remember 70% but can't look it up
           right now) are caused by a family member getting ill.  Boom, one
           \_ Sorry, you're wrong, it's around 40-50%, lower, but still not
           serious illness and you are fucked if you don't have GOOD health
           insurance.  Fucking over people who are already fucked won't fix
           a thing.  It's like treating AIDS by covering up those unsightly
           skin blemishes with foundation.
           \_ No, this is at best a red herring. Should debtors get away
              with debt because of XYZ circumstance? Then everyone will
              claim XYZ circumstance. The health care system is very broken,
              that's a given. However, a broken health care system shouldn't
              be an excuse for people to get out of debt easily. Anyway,
              people in the past used to get ill, probably at a higher
              rate than they do now. Granted, healthcare costs have
              skyrocketted in relation (another reason why we should institute
              government healthcare like every other civilized nation on
              the planet, hell, cuba has better health coverage than the
              U.S.), but if consumers weren't already neck deep in debt.
              BKs are caused by one simple fact, people are already
              overextended. If people were to save instead of continuing
              to spend at their current levels the number of BKs will go
              down dramatically, regardless of whether a person in the family
              gets sick or not. And FYI, yes, I've gone through the terminally
              ill family member bit myself, so I know firsthand what's involved.
                \_ No I'm saying the reason the number of bankrupcies have
                   gone up is because of the lack of support services, not
                   because people are lazy and just don't care and want the
                   easy way out.  People were making that argument yesterday
                   and it is bullshit.  As for credit card companies they
                   make tons of money by charging obscene intrest rates to
                   people who use their services.  Presumably those interest
                   rates are so high to make up for defaulters.
                   \_ I agree with you on the credit card companies. I think
                      that they should be heavily regulated. Banks are heavily
                      regulated, credit card companies should likewise be
                      heavily regulated. I find what credit card companies
                      do to be despicable, and some of their direct mail
                      ploys border on fraud.
                      \_ Yes, because credit card companies are not
                         regulated at all right now and most credit cards
                         are not issued by banks anyway.
                \_ You theory that people will save instead of spend just
                   because of the new bankruptcy law is naive and silly.
                   \_ If it's more difficult to bail yourself out through
                      bankruptcy, then there is a less of an incentive to
                      file. If there is less of an incentive to file, less
                      people would get into the situation in the first place.
                      If you actually read the bankruptcy overhaul, it throws
                      out the "clean slate" and forces people to pay back
                      their debt. Obviously it's a credit card/retailer/
                      business driven bill. However, the central issue here
                      isn't necessarily the bill, it's the fact that too many
                      people are taking on too much debt. The bill itself
                      forces people to own up to their debts, a good thing
                      in general. It obviously only addresses one side of the
                      coin, for obvious reasons. The other side of the issue
                      is regulating creditors and their exceedingly deceptive
                      marketing practices.
                      \_ the bill is stupid.  why residence is protected even
                         if it's a multimillion dollar house.  People with
                         a multimillion dollar house should take out a home
                         equity loan to pay their bills.  it's obviously
                         designed to protect rich people.  As it is,
                         bankruptcy laws are enough to make one's life
                         miserable enough.  If people aren't bright enough
                         to know not to spend beyond their means, I doubt
                         they will be bright enough to distinguish between
                         current law and the new bill.
                         \_ I swear, I need to smack you people on the MOTD
                            on the head. READ THE FUCKING BILL BEFORE
                            COMMENTING. If you read it you would know
                            there's a fucking provision to limit the
                            homestead protection to a max of $125,000.
                            This would eliminate homestead states such
                            as TX. This obviously is designed to catch
                            rich cheats trying to get out of paying massive
                            debts. If you don't read the goddamn bill,
                            don't goddamn comment on it.
                            \_ Okay.  Smack in head deserved, but how about
"The Senate, during debate on the bill, also rejected efforts to kill
off the loophole that permits the wealthy to protect assets by opening
special trust accounts in any of several states, including Alaska,
Delaware, Rhode Island, Nevada and Utah. Doctors have been setting up
these so-called asset-protection trusts for years to protect
themselves from malpractice litigation. Now, executives are following
suit, as a result of the latest round of corporate scandals and the
passage of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which makes top executives and
directors accountable for their company's financial results."
        "The Senate, during debate on the bill, also rejected efforts to
         kill off the loophole that permits the wealthy to protect assets by
         opening special trust accounts in any of several states, including
         Alaska, Delaware, Rhode Island, Nevada and Utah. Doctors have been
         setting up these so-called asset-protection trusts for years to
         protect themselves from malpractice litigation. Now, executives are
         following suit, as a result of the latest round of corporate
         scandals and the passage of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which makes top
         executives and directors accountable for their company's financial
         \_ ^only the little people pay taxes^only the little people get
             fucked when they declare bankruptcy.  Those senators are probably
             thinking, "hey if I file I better get to hide all my asetts
             cuz I'm rich, bitch!"
2005/3/9-10 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:36599 Activity:kinda low
3/9     Hi, can pine and ispell (required for pine) be compiled/installed
        without root in my own home dir?  I switched my webhosting to
        and they do not have any mail client installed (they run freebsd).
        \_ Of course it can.
        \_ pine bad.  use mutt
                          \_ mutt is for girls and linux users,
                             real men use mh.
        \_ Hey what happened to your high quality vitamin C page that gets rid
           of acne, helps you lose weight, and gives you a lot of energy?
           It's no longer on
2005/3/9-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:36600 Activity:low 75%like:36642
3/9     This Friday: Berkeley Critical Mass 12th Birthday ride! Party after.
        \_ When are they going to start the protest where they ride around
           throwing maltov cocktails at SUVs?  I'd go to that.
           throwing molotov cocktails at SUVs?  I'd go to that.
           \_ Gasoline to $2.50 by summer.  About half of the necessary $5.
              \_ So maltov cocktails are half-off, what's the problem?
              \_ So molotov cocktails are half-off, what's the problem?
           \_ what's maltov coctails?
                \_ Molotov.  Glass bottle with gasoline inside and a burning
                   rag which is thrown.  Standard rioter equipment.
                   \_ Named after Russian Foreign Mister Vyacheslav
                      Mikhailovich Molotov. Used by the Finns to stop
                      the Russian advance into Finland during the 1940
                      border war. Used by partisans and freedom fighters
                      worldwide, as well as rioters.
                   \_ I was personally sad that no one threw a molotov at
                      W's limo during the inauguration. If 100 brave Liberals
                      threw them then they'd surely make a statement. However,
                      I guess Liberals are just whining chickens. Yeah, a
                      bunch of pussies.            -disillusioned Freeper
                      \_ d00d, security was a bitch.  If you could throw
                         a molotov, you could throw a satchel bomb.
                         security screenings took everything including fruit,
                         so the most you could throw was a snowball
                         \_ and yet, no one even spitted at or threw a
                            snowball. They had this stupid "Turn your back
                            on Bush" crap which no media even showed. At least
                            during the first inauguration someone threw fruits
                            \_ snowball was thrown; if you spit, you had to
                               hock your loogie over the two-row deep line
                               of police
                               \_ If mamby-pamby liberuls chewed like real
                                  men, they could do it.
                                  \_ Hey, wait... can you chew marijuana?
        \_ speaking of tools and cranks.
2005/3/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:36601 Activity:moderate
3/9     some thoughts on why Bush is so obsessed with paving
        over Social Security:
        \_ Flat tax, no government social services people
             == It's fair; the huge liberating effect on the economy will
                be felt by everyone; and even if an even larger gap does form
                between the wealthy and non-wealthy, it's a fair system;
                progressive taxes and social services keep lazy people lazy
           Progressive tax, government social services people
             == It takes money to make money (rich have a much easier time and
                can make money at a much higher rate); extreme wealth-gap is
                bad; progressive taxation and government social services as
                they exist today are cheap for what you get -- no revolutions
        \_ I was unable to find any thought there. YMMV
           \_ I was unable to find any thought here. YMMV
              \- A fine paper to read is "The Procedural Republic and
                 the Unencumbered Self" by Michael J. Sandel. Available
                 most easily from JSTOR.
        \_ Ultral Left-Wing Liberal Troll Alert. If you really want good
           info, you should check out fair and balanced sources:
                \_ you forgot - danh
           \_ I hate that it's impossible to talk about Bush's plans without
              sounding like an absolute conspiracy nut.
           \_ Way to be a total idiot.  Your first paper says its a farsical
              comedy making fun of the left.  How about you take your
              rediculous conservative propaganda elsewhere. -mrauser
              \_ Mmm...  better check your sarcasm detector.
                 \_ Be nice to him, he's a bit new around here.
2005/3/9-10 [Uncategorized] UID:36602 Activity:moderate
3/9     Get the UN out of US!
        \_ So we can finally be the Ited States!
        \_ Get that ugly ass shade of blue and red off your page!
        \_ "We're the John Birch Society, help us swell the ranks
           To get this movement started, we need lots of tools and cranks"
2005/3/9-10 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:36603 Activity:moderate
3/9     How long are LCDs expected to last? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years? Thx.
        \_ The conventional wisdom is:
           (1) As long as the backlight lasts
               - It will dim in intensity, as much as 50% or more over x years
               - You can get it replaced for x hundreds of dollars
               - You can get it replaced for x hundreds of dollars by the
           (2) As long as pixels don't start going dead
           Hard numbers for both factors may have changed for a 15" LCD from
           four years ago to a 19" 16ms display / 20"+ widescreen you just
           bought.  Chances are you stopped using that 15" LCD a long time ago
           and haven't really thought about how much it degraded over time --
           just that it sucks compared to your 23" widescreen today.
           \_ I've noticed that my powerbook screen has dimed over the 2 or so
              years I've owned it.
              \_ mine hasn't over 4 years.  I use it several hours/day.
              \_ Try cleaning it.  There's also a brightness control.  -John
        \_ The 15" Apple Studio Display my mom got me for xmas '99 is still
           going strong. It gets daily use for 2+ hrs a day. My 20" Apple
           Cinema Display is in great shape as well after 2+ yrs.
           Most of my friends who have LCDs have only replaced them b/c they
           wanted a bigger screen not b/c they had problems w/ them.
           \_ The 15" I displayed to your mom is also still going strong.
        \_ Related note:  Does powering down the LCD when not in use, even for
           just 15 minutes help save the screen?  Or is the power surge from
           on/off going to degrade the backlight faster?
           \_ my experience with lots of thinkpads is that screens wear out
              from 1) travel/concussion/temp shock, 2) aggressive power-off
              blanking, 3) hours of operating time.  I set mine to not blank
              in less than 12 hours, and only manually blank it if I am
              going to be away for hours or am surviving on battery.
              \_ Stupid question, does LCD suffer from burn-in?
2005/3/9 [Computer/SW/OS/Solaris, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:36604 Activity:low
3/9     After I start an xterm in SunOS 5 and Linux, is there any command to
        change the title of the xterm window?  Thanks.
        \_ Check ~geordan/bin/retitle
           \_ That 2 should probably be a 0 -- that way the new title stays
              even when the window is minimized (or whatever the standard
              X term for that is). -alexf
              \_ using 1 will change the icon title.  using 0 changes both.
        \_ I always just type:
           % cat
           ^[]0;New Title^G
           (^[ = escape, ^G = ctrl-G, ^D = ctrl-D)  --dbushong
2005/3/9-10 [Computer/Networking] UID:36605 Activity:high
3/9     Home WIFI poll.
        WiFi, no security, everyone can use my connection: .+
        WiFi, default security (64/128/256-bit WEP): ..
        I don't use WiFi: .
        \_ Please use a + symbol if you also restrict by MAC address.
           Please use a x symbol if you successfully snoop on such systems
             on occasion.
2005/3/9-10 [Recreation/Woodworking, Recreation/House] UID:36606 Activity:high
3/9     What are most modern walls, specifically ceilings, built
        from? Is it sheet rock? I'm wondering because I have to hang
        a light fixture (~10 lbs) from my ceiling, and it looks like
        I have to drill into it.
        \_ Yes, sheetrock since the 1950s or so.
        \_ Ummm... Almost certainly sheetrock.  Don't hang a light fixture
           from sheet rock, find a stud.
           \_ God, the term is DRY WALL.  "Sheetrock" is an irritating brand
              name made into a neologism, like "Xerox."
              \_ Hey, could you Xerox this for me?  Thanks
                 \_ sure, I'll just go to my local LDS church and xerox it
                    FOR FREE because they're so rich.
              \_ You need a Kleenex for all your crying.
        \_ Ceiling might be asbestos.  Is it "cottage cheese" style?  You
           DON'T want to drill into that.
           \_ SODOMIZE ASPOLITO!!!
        \_ Doesn't asbsestos cause cancer?
              \_ Wipe your tears with a Kleenex, pussy boy.
2005/3/9-10 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:36607 Activity:low
3/9     Does anyone know offhand if Google considers a 403 to be a dead link?
        \_ There seem to be quite a few bots which can't take a hint when it
           sees a 403 or 404.
           \_ I'm not saying Google doesn't. I assume it does remove from
              index eventually on 404, but is 403 treated differently in
              any way? -op
2021/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:March:09 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>