Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:March:08 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/3/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:36574 Activity:moderate
3/8     I am thinking of switching to cygwin, but I'm afraid of certain
        things that bit me in the past. For example, will I run into
        problems with DOS's stupid \r\n vs \n compatibility? How about
        file names with caps? Say I tar up file names from DOS and bring
        it to Linux, will it all get messed up because DOS is case
        insensitive? Any other comment before I dive into cygwin? ok thx.
        \_ Switching to cygwin from what, exactly? cygwin is designed to help
           Unix people cope with Windows. It's not a complete port of the Unix
           userland to Windows, and it's not a complete replacement for the
           Windows shell (although it's getting better, on both counts). You
           will notice assorted oddness that points out just how not-Unix it
           is. Still, it's better than being stuck with cmd.exe if you find
           yourself flailing with the normal Windows UI. (I know I do.)
           To answer your particular questions:
           you can tell Cygwin what to use as the end-of-line sequence; cygwin
           commands and filenames are case-sensitive; tarballs will be extracted
           with the same capitalization as is used on the Windows machine;
           beware of absolute paths (cygwin represents C: as /cygdrive/c,
           which confuses many Windows apps) and the direction of slashes
           (most Windows apps handle / as a directory separator, but Cygwin
           doesn't like unquoted, unescaped \ for same). All in all, I'm
           quite happy with it. -gm
           \_ I also need basic scripting like Perl and Bash. Are those
              included in the cygwin distribution?
              \_ They're available.  Bash is in the default install.  For perl,
                 expand the "Interpreters" tab in the installer and select it.
        \_ Yeah, I use Cygwin with Windoze too.  It's great.  I'm usually
           in a cmd.exe window and hardly ever use tcsh or bash shells.
           Most frequently used commands are zip, unzip, tar, and grep.
           Your biggest challenge will be figuring out which packages to
           \_ I'll second it being great.  I use tcsh almost exclusively instead
              of cmd.exe now.  The rootless Xserver (X-windows mix with your
              regular Windows-windows and don't take over the whole screen)
              isn't stellar but it works fine.  Command line scp, globbing,
              xterm.. lots of nice stuff.  --dbushong
2005/3/8-9 [Science/GlobalWarming, Science/Physics] UID:36575 Activity:nil
3/8     RIP Hans Bethe
2005/3/8-9 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:36576 Activity:moderate
3/8     Very cool cane for blind people:
        \_ Try being blind for a day, I don't think there is any cane in
           the world that can make up for the gift of vision.
                \_ I completely agree, however this is better than nothing
                   and in some ways it is proof that science and technology
                   can make the world a better place for the disadvantaged.
              \_ I think you've missed PP's point.  Train harder, grasshopper.
                 \_ I doubt it.  I fully understood pp's point.
                    \_ No, *I* doubt it.  You completely missed it.
                       \_ Please see post from someone else below:
                          \_ Yup -- my point exactly.  Maybe williamc will
                             pay for a permanent trip to canada for you if you
                             complain a little bit more.
                             \_ What in the world are you talking about?
                                \_ What in the world are /you/ talking about,
                                   Mr "I fully understand the point but not
                                   enough to tell the difference between
                                   an attack on the utility of the cane and
                                   an attack on my 'insensitivity'"?
                                   \_ I think you lost it at "permanent trip to
                                      canada" and randomly identifying
                                      williamc.  Buh-bye.
                                      \_ I got one more out of you, though,
                                         didn't I?  Sucker.
           \_ What are you talking about man?  Didn't you know that people
              go blind on purpose so they can get one of those "wicked
2005/3/8 [Uncategorized] UID:36577 Activity:moderate
3/8     Anyone seen john or know where he is? He hasn't logged in for a while
        \_ He posted on the motd just yesterday.
2005/3/8 [Uncategorized] UID:36578 Activity:nil
3/8     500K+ protest in Lebanon AGAINST Syrian withdrawal, when are they
        covering this on the front page of
2005/3/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:36579 Activity:high
3/8     500K+ protest in Lebanon AGAINST Syrian withdrawal, when are they
        covering this on the front page of
        I see a prominent link of Dubya saying how "freedom will prevail" in
        Lebanon, but it doesn't mention anything about the protest.
        Also, if you're confused how they could get so many people, most are
        Shiite -- most anti-Syria are Sunni + Christian + Druuse.
        And the protest is just as much about being pro-Syria as being
        anti-Israel and anti-U.S.
        \_ Someone needs to write reliable software and come up with a reliable
           way to use it that estimates crowd size.  I'm tired of hearing about
           protests that have "between 20,000 and 200,000 people".  As to
 , the story is at the top on,,
  and  I think is just being
           slow here. I can't believe that they have become more censored than
           \_ It's there on CNN, it's just not on the front page.  *shrug*
             \_ CNN has been trying to out-Fox Fox News for quite some time
                \_ Meh, it looks like some editor decided that after days and
                   days of protests, this wasn't front-page newsworthy.  I'm
                   not saying I agree with that call, but sometimes
                   conspiracies can be attributed to plain stupidity.
                   \_ No.  The largest anti-Syria demonstration was 70,000
                      people.  The pro-Syria demonstration numbers 500,000,
                      and finally occurred today.
                      Today, Dubya also made a speech trumpeting freedom in
                      Lebanon, and cited the mass protests against Syria.
                      On, there is a link on the front page on Dubya's
                      speech, but no link to the much larger protest on the
                      front page nor mention of it in the "freedom" article.
                      In contrast,,,
            ,, and feature the
                      pro-Syria/ anti-U.S. / anti-Israel protest prominently.
                      -- No one every said "conspiracy", but between being
                      -- No one ever said "conspiracy", but between being
                      afraid of being branded as part of "the liberal
                      mainstream media", falling ratings, getting spoon-fed
                      articles from the White House for easy posting, potential
                      loss of access to the Administration, and likely internal
                      turmoil at CNN while they struggle with these issues, I
                      would say things like this are the natural result.
                      In contrast, leading print media like the ones I
                      mentioned above have a much larger roster of seasoned
                      professional journalists, so they just print the
                      important news when they see it, and at least try to be
                      fair.  At CNN (specifically the web site -- CNN cable
                      seems to cover everything anyway) I just see paralysis
                      and confusion instead of "conspiracy".
                      \_ Hmm, fair enough.
                      \_ Look, even Fox News has it on the front door. CNN
                         is just being lame.
                         \_ Occam's Razor, baby.  The "No." guy seems to need
                            a lesson in this basic concept.
                            \_ I think you mean to say, "Yeah, I meant all
                               that, but in fewer words."
                               Unless you think really is intentionally
                               keeping the protest off the front page.
                               \_ No, I'm saying that there's a simpler
                                  explanation for this (mismanagement) that
                                  doesn't require a five page essay to
                                  \_ So in other words, you meant what I did,
                                     but in fewer words?  I am essentially
                                     saying mismanagement as well, but
                                     listed what specific things characterize
                                     \_ Are you the 'No.' guy or the 'Look,
                                        even' guy?  This thread has confused
                                        me horribly.
                                     \_ Is it normally this hard to agree with
                                        you?  If it is, I think I'm gonna
                                        switch sides and argue for a
                                        conspiracy theory or whatever.
                                        \_ So why don't you say, "I agree with
                                           the guy, but he could have been
                                           more concise".  It wasn't clear
                                           if you were agreeing or not.
                                           \_ Because it's a conspiracy -- CNN
                                              is so clearly hiding information
                                              to help boost ratings and to
                                              pander to its political readers
                                              that I'm surprised it doesn't
                                              just put an elephant as its logo/
                                              mascot.  *sheesh*
                                              \_ I can't help but feel I'm
                                                 being trolled by yet a 3rd
                                                 \_ Either there's 2 idiots
                                                    trolling each other in this
                                                    thread, or there's like,
                                                    4 or more people posting -
                                                    none of which are very
                                                    coherent or reading-
        \_ Could it be composed of the millions of Syrian's who come to
           work in Lebanon, or the thousand of Palestinians in refugee
           camps? Naaa
2005/3/8-9 [Finance/CC] UID:36580 Activity:high
3/8     Kinda funny how this horrid bankruptcy bill, that was essentially
        written by the credit card industry, is going to pass without almost
        a single mention in the press.
        \_ hey, can we get a similar corporate bankruptcy bill, which says
           that board member's assets are seized to pay off employees and
           shareholders in the case of chapter 11?  -tom
        \_ Can you give specifics on this bill? I tend to think that a tougher
           bankruptcy bill will have people thinking twice before going into
           debt. I think that Americans as a whole are too dependent upon
           debt anyway, and declaring bankruptcy has never been easier.
           If the bill makes it more difficult and puts a greater stigma
           associated with going into bankruptcy it may result in more
           careful spending.
           \_ It implement a means test for who can file for chapter 7.  It
              also allows for trusts to hide assets.  If you're not super
              wealthy (i.e. can afford to set up a trust), you could very well
              be forced to spend the rest of your life repaying debt rather
              than getting the clean slate that is your constitutional right.
           \_ You're an imbecile if you think people don't "think twice"
              before going into bankruptcy. "Has never been easier"?  How
              do you figure?  This bill treats "abusers" the same as someone
              who goes under because of medical bills.  More than 90% of
              filings are because of medical costs, job loss, or divorce.
              What will you think about ease of filing when 1 or more of
              these event happen to you?
              It allows loopholes like Asset Protection Trusts (great for
              joe q. moneybags.  not so good for you or me).  This is a
              boon to credit card companies and gives you or me no recourse
              in the event of emergency to protect ourselves financially.
              \_ Uhm, no. You're a moron if you think it's really difficult
                 to go Chapter 7, it's not. If it was you wouldn't see a
                 360% INCREASE in 16 years.
                 Anyway, if people actually SAVED their money
                 instead of carrying large credit card debts they wouldn't
                 have to declare bankruptcy when they lose their jobs.
                 I know plenty of people who go through divorces who don't
                 have to go through personal bankruptcy. The Medical Bills
                 is also a red herring. Many institutions will grant waivers
                 for medical bill debt if the person is indeed needy.
                 Let's face it, America has become a nation of constant debtors,
                 the average credit card balance is $7000, people are buying
                 overpriced homes with 30 year APRs. The whole thing is
                 out of hand, and personal savings is at a near all-time low.
                 We didn't have this problem a generation or two ago. It was
                 because people back then had this concept of not living
                 beyond your means, of not incurring more debt than assets.
                 Other countries, most notably Japan, have exceedingly high
                 savings rates. In most asian cultures it is deemed a great
                 shame to go into bankruptcy, which is why Asians are some
                 of the best savers around. People are living longer these
                 days, they earn more, and enjoy a higher standard of living
                 than ever before. They should learn to plan financially as
                 a result, and begin taking responsibility for their assets.
                 Why you got into debt actually should be somewhat immaterial.
                 Are lenders supposed to lose their shirts because of
                 unfortunate circumstances? Well, then, human nature will
                 dictate that EVERYONE will claim unfortunate circumstances.
                 Aruing about a bill that makes it more difficult for people
                 to avoid paying back their debt isn't the real issue. The
                 real isssue is getting consumers to honor their committments
                 and avoid debt in the first place. I bet you've never been
                 owed money. Well I have, and it's not fun to go after people.
                 It's even less fun when deadbeats get away without paying
                 you back for resources they've consumed.  Dead beats will
                 give you every excuse under the sun to get out of debt,
                 like their grandparents died, their cat died, etc.
                 To hell with the system of excuses, I say, and let's
                 make people responsible for debts they incur.
        \_ There were big articles in the LA Times, Post, and maybe the NY
           Times.  Is it really passing?
           \_ Check your cspan
              \_ Yeah, I did.  Closer to passage in the Senate, after
                 votes to limit debate and to remove a poison pill amendment
                 on abortion (that killed the bill the last time, when
                 the Dems had 4 more Senators, and yes, the margin this
                 time was within 4 x 2 = 8 votes).
                 I guess people will be voting party line?
                 \_ Likely.  Shame on the dems who voted for cloture
        \_ Do you think the Dems are going to counterattack?  I think Dubya
           will say it allows rich people to declare bankruptcy, cheating the
           system, but I think the Dem attack wins ("... a bill written and
           funded by credit card companies ...").
           IMO, this is fish in a barrel.  They're probably wondering whether
           it's a set-up, and now I am, too.
           \_ I'm trying to figure out just what they're trying to save their
              non-existent political capital for.  This is one they should have
              filibustered.  This was bad.
              \_ Not to disagree with you, but perhaps they think it's a red
                 herring which would distract from the social security debate.
2005/3/8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:36581 Activity:moderate
3/8     Why do conservatives have such a deep personal hatred of Hillary
        Clinton?  I've seen her referred to as the "Evil One" on freerepublic,
        and I'm a little confused as to why the hatred for her is so personal.
        \_ She's feminism, pro-choice, and lying bitch all rolled into one.
           They do have some regard for toughness, so in this respect think
           she bests Bubba in this respect.
        \_ Her power makes their penis seem even smaller.
        \_ From what I remember in the early 90's, it was because she was
           very active in pushing her health care reform plan even though
           she was never elected as a policy-maker. At least that's when the
           hatred began.
2005/3/8-9 [Consumer/Audio] UID:36582 Activity:nil
        New iPod updater displays advertisements on the screen.  I knew there
        was a reason I haven't bought one yet.
        \_ This is a poorly executed joke.
2005/3/8-10 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36583 Activity:moderate
3/8     How accurate do people find the figures from to be?
        I'm deciding on a job offer, and was hoping someone can help me
        evaluate.  Thnx.  Oh.  Job is software engineering, of course.
        \_ I find them accurate.
        \_ I don't find them accurate, but it's hard to say.  I was being
           paid $10k less than what said, and when I brought it
           up to management they said my company does extensive market
           research to make sure we are paid at Market or better, based on
           individual skill set, experience, blah, blah.
           \_ Man, that's a shitty way to find out that you're being screwed
              by your employer.
           \_ Did you expect them to apologize for underpaying you?
              \_ No, I expected them to adjust my pay to a fair amount.
                 \_ Didn't work, did it?  Next time ask for something more
                    achievable, like world peace or blow jobs from the
           \_ 10% less than the median or 10% less than the 25th percentile?
              I have pretty much always been paid around the 75th percentile
              according to their job descriptions. You have to get the
              title that goes with your number of years of experience though.
              I have pretty much always been paid between the 50th and 75th
              percentile according to their job descriptions. You have to get
              the title that goes with your number of years of experience
              though, which isn't always your title at work.
              \_ In this case it was $10k less than the median, and I
                 used the correct number of years in the calc.
                 \_ Unless you are a substandard performer (and you should
                    know that from performance reviews, etc) you are being
                    underpaid then. If you have asked them for a raise and
                    shown them the comps, then you have no recourse but
                    to start looking for another job. It is probably a
                    good idea to interview every other year or so in any
                    case, to keep yourself fresh
           \_ That's exactly what my manager told me when I asked four years
              ago.  Then my company went bankrupt, and two months later I got
              an offer which was 20% over my old salary (I told them my old
              salary).  If I had really been paid at market, I don't think
              anyone would offer me a 20% increase knowing that I was already
              jobless for two months.
        \_ It depends on the company.  My old job I was < 25th percentile;
           my new one (pretty much same job description) I'm 75th.
2005/3/8-10 [Computer/SW/OS/VM] UID:36584 Activity:low
3/8     Anyone work for VMWare here? care to comment on the how it is? Thx.
        \_ Yes.  I like it a lot. --jameslin
        \_ Is VMWare related to the "VM" OS on IBM mainframes?
           \_ IBM mainframes did do virtualization back in the day, but
              otherwise, no.
              \_ they still do today; it's the basis of their linux
                 server consolidation story.
           \_ the IBM VM is more like Zen, in that the OS is written to
              an appropriate virtual machine rather than trying to virtualize
              a hardware platform not designed for it.  they also have
              more virtualizable hardware because of this legacy
2005/3/8-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:36585 Activity:nil 66%like:35387
3/8     Bush announces exit strategy from Iraq:
2005/3/8-9 [Transportation/Car, Computer/SW/Security] UID:36586 Activity:low
3/8     "It was certainly an accident ... The car was traveling at a velocity
        that couldn't have been more than 40 kilometers (25 miles) per hour
        ... The government has a duty to point out that the reconstruction of
        the tragic event ... from the direct account of our secret service
        official who was with Dr. Calipari does not coincide, totally, with
        what has been said so far by the U.S. authorities."
        [Fini] said Calipari, an experienced officer who had negotiated the
        release of other hostages in Iraq in the past, "made all the
        necessary contacts with the U.S. authorities," both with those in
        charge of airport security and with the forces patrolling areas next
        to the airport.
        -G. Fini, Italian foreign minister ( CNN)
        Another article:  [The security agent in the car] said that a light
        was flashed at the car after a curve and that gunfire -- lasting 10 or
        15 seconds -- started immediately afterward, disputing U.S. military
        claims that several attempts were made to get the car to stop before
2005/3/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:36587 Activity:high
3/8     I'm in the process of writing a book called a Liberal's Guide
        To Become A Good Conservative. I need a list of suggestions.
        I'll start but I need your help:
        \_ If you post the same link to the motd enough times, everyone will
           eventually agree with you.  If it starts to get deleted, just
           post the ip address.  No one will think of that, because it's
        \_ Never admit a mistake, you don't want to show your weaknesses
        \_ Show people that you believe God. God Bless America.
        \_ Religion works all the time. God Bless America.
        \_ You are more important than anyone else, screw what other people
           think. Sometimes the right decision [for me] is not a popular one
        \_ There is only good and evil. You're either with us or against us.
        \_ Use simple phrases, like MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! BRING 'EM ON!!!
        \_ If something goes wrong, just point your finger at someone!
           Like "CIA mislead me! It's not my fault."
        \_ Accept that you're good and that everything else is Liberal Bias.
           There is good and evil. Mormon is good. Everything else is evil.
        \_ Cut taxes. Talk about God a lot. To set policy on a particular
           topic such as healthcare or energy, invite business leaders to
           tell you what to do.
        \_ This should be a really easy book to write. All you need is
           one page, and it should just read "remove head from ass".
           \_ According to Tom Holub, the motd is a bastion of conservativism.
              And he's right -- look at all the help this thread has gotten so
              quickly! -- ilyas
              \_ uh, when did I say this?  -tom
              \_ According to ilyas, motd is about him and tom holub. Just
                 look at these two dominating motd. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
                 \_ Have some compassion for ilyas. He seems to have a very
                    low self-esteem and he just needs acceptance. He is
                    unsure of himself and covers up his esteem with quick
                    snappy insults. And people like that usually have
                    a history of being ridiculed or not being able to
                    "fit in" in the physical world, so they find places that
                    are less painful to be in, like motd.
                    \_ I don't think ANYONE comes to the motd for acceptance.
                       I come here for the laughs mostly.  -- ilyas
                        \_ yet you do not deny that you have a low self-
                           esteem. You realise that people on motd usually
                           laugh AT you, not with you, yes?
                           \_ I admit everything!  The motd inquisition got me,
                              at last! -- ilyas
                              \_ Give him... the comfy chair!
        \_ Don't EVER defend the queer, you'll lose lots of allies.
        \_ Don't EVER bring up boring statistics like "87 Billion dollars in
           Iraq will give you 100,000 teachers for 20 years" unless you want
           to bore your audiences to death. BORING!!! Instead, talk about GOD.
        \_ If someone makes fun of your intelligence (Democrats), they are
           immoral people. Talk with your gun (and oh thanks, NRA!)
        \_ Liberty is not free, and is the historical exception not the
           \_ Odd one stands out, dummy.
        \_ Do NOT get an intern to suck your dick, it'll piss off Jesus' people
        \_ Remove your brain and trust your government.
           \_ Funny, I always thought that was the liberal/socialist view.
           \_ Correction: "Don't trust the government unless it trusts God"
        \_ If you get enough people to say it, anything, no matter how patently
           false, will sound convincing.
2005/3/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:36588 Activity:kinda low
3/8     This is funny. Italy demands US punish killers. They just don't
        understand us. Back in 1999 we acquitted a reckless pilot who
        killed 20 skiers, how DARE these fucking Italians demand anything.
        We Are Great, Manifest Destiny, and God Bless America. -conservative
        \_ The journalist they shot is very opinionated and left wing (she
           writes for Il Manifesto, I believe.)  The whole sordid affair is
           a stupid, tragic mistake, and the dumb bitch (pardon me, but it
           really pisses me off) is really not helping anyone by agitating
           about it being a US conspiracy to avoid looking like they support
           compromises with hostage takers.  I only wish they'd left her to
           rot and tried to free some of the poor bastard South Asian truck
           drivers or other innocent hostages instead.  The thing with the
           pilot, on the other hand, was just a fucking travesty.  -John
           \_ Do you think she's pretty good looking for a 57 year old?
           \_ Actually, if I got shot up by American soldiers just a half mile
              from the aiport when the three security guys around me were
              ecstatic and we had all the confidence in the world that the
              Americans knew we were coming -- and someone suddenly put a
              spotlight on our car and blasted us for 10-15 seconds, the chief
              negotiator died on my lap and I got shrapnel in the shoulder, I
              might say it was a conspiracy, too -- that the American grunts
              were told by someone higher up in the chain of command to
              expect bad guys in a car similar to ours, but otherwise naive
              to our arrival.
              But, a day or two later, I might say, you know, maybe I
              overreacted, and it was probably an accident.
2005/3/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:36589 Activity:nil
3/8     Curious, did UK ever pass an anti-independence bill back in 1700's?
2005/3/8-10 [Recreation/Food] UID:36590 Activity:kinda low
3/8     Please reccomend any good lunch spots in/around downtown Mountain View.
        Thanks.  -foodie, but not a snob
        \_ When I worked on Ellis St. we used to eat at this little
           Italian place right off of Moffett Blvd called Mario's.
           Lots of reasonable places to eat on Castro as well.
        \_ Sushi Tomi (Dana east of Castro) isn't bad. Kapp's (Castro@Villa)
           has decent pizza. Amici's (Castro@High School) has good New York
           style pizza. Le Boulanger (next door) has good sandwiches. I would
           be interested in hearing reviews of the Mongolian BBQ place on
           Castro. Or just pick a cuisine and try someplace (and report back);
           you can find most reasonably-popular cuisines on Castro somewhere.
           (I'm more familiar with dinner places in the area.) -gm
        \_ Amarin Thai is pretty good. I heard Sue's is good Indian. Zucca
           is passable, but overpriced, but they do have decent Uozo/Rake.
        \_ I'd like to report the middle-eastern place on Castro between Villa
           and Dana is pretty good. -op
        \_ If you're not looking for fancy atmosphere but just want good food,
           check out Rose Market on Castro (a couple of blocks south of El
           Camino, which is not where most of the restaurants are). It's a
           middle eastern grocery store that has a counter in the back that
           serves really good Kabobs.
           \_ seconded
        \_ Sue's Indian is good, $10 buffet.
        \_ late post...
           mexican: taqueria los charros on dana (good inexpensive burritos,
            think la burrita, but way better, and not any more expensive),
            fiesta del mar, more expensive, but nicer food for the non-burrito.
           japanese: another vote for sushi tomi, and a vote for yakko sushi
            (dana, west of castro, kamei is decent and cheaper
           indian: sue's is pretty good, as mentioned above
           chinese: the dim sum at golden wok is decent, the rest of the
            chinese isn't worth mentioning
           thai: amarin has good lunches, house of krung siam is pretty
            good too.  They kinda have to be, given that they're right next
            to each other and in the same price range.
2019/02/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:March:08 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>