Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:March:03 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2005/3/3-4 [Science/Biology, Reference/Religion] UID:36501 Activity:moderate
3/2     To the person defending LDS, where's your Mormon Christain wingman
        like jrleek? Don't you guys always work in a pair? Why isn't he
        helping you out? I'm asking because the motd today reminds me of
        my undergrad experience. Everyday, I'd walk alone to/from Dwinelle,
        Wheeler, and Le Conte and I'm always approached by two well groomed,
        happy and occasionally attractive looking people asking me if I
        would be interested in joining them, and it always turns out to be
        something related to God, Church and Bible Study.
           Secretly I've always had this dream of pairing up with an athiest
        wingman in say, Jesuit School School of Theology. We would walk
        around and ask students if they'd be interested in joining our
        organization, and we would tell them that it's something related to
        Science, University, and Evolutionary Study. I wonder how many
        students would actually join us. Maybe we can even get enough
        people to fund a church where devouts can worship Science and maybe
        even start missionaries abroad.
        \_ If I ever move back to the bay area, I'll be a wingman for that.
        \_ jrleek is changing his own baby's diapers right now, just like
           BY had to do.  long live jrleek.  -vallard
        \_ Oh, I'm pretty lazy.  I'll post a response when some one states
           something untrue about the church, but emarkp started that
           argument and he can keep it. -jrleek
2005/3/3-5 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:36502 Activity:moderate
4/2     I'm doing some research on laptops and would appreciate some personal
        opinions--any recommendations on a small, robust, fast machine
        equivalent to a Thinkpad X31, but which plays nice with FreeBSD or
        Linux?  Getting any variant of the above to run on the X31 seems to
        depend highly on your exact model #, and I'm getting a bit sick of
        trying to get it working.  -John
        \_ Cheap, robust, small, fast laptop that runs FreeBSD and plays
           nice with Linux- try an ibook.
           \_ Fair enough---will probably do that and run an XP VMWare
              session.  Fuck x86 laptops, and my X20 was so good... -John
                \_ You probably have to get VPC (M$) instead of VMWare.
           \_ iBooks are not small or fast.  -tom
                \_ how are they not small? but John can afford it, so a
                   12" powerbook is probably a better bet. slightly smaller,
                   slightly faster, and better overall Industrial Design.
                   \_ The 12" iBook weighs 4.9 pounds; that's towards the
                      top of mid-range for all laptops, and it's pretty
                      heavy for a 12" laptop.  The 12" Powerbook at 4.6
                      pounds isn't much better. -tom
                   \_ FYI, The 12" PB runs hotter than than the 12" iBook.
        \_ John, is it April in Switzerland?
           \_ No, we're on the metric system.  -John
           \_ April Never Ended, http://csua.org/u/b8m
              \_ Could someone please explain to us slow folks what the hell
                 this "joke" is about?
              \_ Springtime for Hiter and Germany... Winter for Poland and
                 France...
        \_ google x40 fedora core -someone with not much experience
           \_ yeah, the trick is to get the IBM that works w/ linux
              and not the other way around. :-) --karlcz
              p.s. http://www.linux-laptop.net for lots of user experiences
              \_ You're totally right--but I had an x20 which ran a charm
                 with FreeBSD.  I assumed the lack of reports on success with
                 x31s was just due to it being a pretty new platform when
                 I bought it.  Sigh.  -John
        \_ Dude, just get a dell.
           \_ Buy Dell, Support Republicans.
        \_ iBook. $999, Refurbs for <800.
2005/3/3-4 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:36503 Activity:high
3/3     Steve Albini discusses food.
        http://www.gourmandizer.com/ezine/albini
        \_ Who is Steve Albini?
           \_ the subject of the best Wesley Willis song ever
           \_ Lead singer of Big Black (awesome band from Chicago, late 80's).
              Graduated from singing to being a producer. Cool fr00d.
              \_ I think you meant to say "really hoopy frood"
              \_ He also currently has an on-again, off-again band called
                 Shellac.  Highly recommended.
        \_ "Here is a recipe anyone can use to make a wonderful Sauce
            Mayonnaise: ..."  That's soo cool.  I'm gonna try that.
            \_ I tried this recipe a while back... It wasn't bad but
               is real mayonnaise supposed to taste like that?
               I'm afraid I've been spoiled by Kraft.
               \_ What did it taste like? Cream? A cross between Hollandaise
                  and cream(ie. texture and richness of hollandaise, w/o the
                  distinctive flavor?).
                  \_ Sorry, I'm sauce-illiterate wrt Hollandaise.
                     Texture was smoother than Kraft, flavor is dominated
                     by garlic/olive oil/lemon juice. i.e., I could identify
                     the component ingredients whereas with mayo, there's some
                     alchemy going on -- preservatives probably?
                     \_ You do realize that Best Foods/Hellman's is a more
                        authentic mayo than Kraft is, don't you?
2005/3/3-4 [Uncategorized] UID:36504 Activity:nil
3/3     Wow, another government bureaucracy, spinning out of control:
        http://csua.org/u/b8n
        \_ "wow"?  You're surprised?
2005/3/3-4 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36505 Activity:high
3/3     A great place to talk about politics: http://csua.org/motd
        Hello, my name is Motd, and I approve this message.
        \_ Seems to be kinda broken.
           \_ and deserted.
           \_ How so?  I know not many people use it, but I'm curious to hear
              what's broken.  --dbushong
              \_ Ah, I see.  I think most of it's just that 2nd post, where
                 someone pasted content, completed with existing \_'s directly
                 from the motd.  I guess I should trap for that.  --dbushong
                 \_ I admit, I didn't look very long.  The other odd thing
                    was the [1,2] beside the first post.  It had some
                    effect, but I'm not sure what the purpose was..
                    \_ Documentation, Shmocumentation.  Posters can edit
                       their own post, but the old versions are always saved
                       and available to see what revisionist history the
                       poster's up to.  --dbushong
2005/3/3 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack] UID:36506 Activity:moderate
3/2     [troll about troll re-deleted re-deleted]
        \_ MY FREEPER POSTS ARE NOT TROLLS. THEY ARE SERIOUS ATTEMPTS
           TO EDUCATE MY IGNORANT BRETHREN.
        \_ MY FREPER POSTSAR OT TROLLS. THEY RE SERIOUS TTEMPTS
           O DUATE MY GORN BRETHRE
           _ ouve eve ere ave y
            Y EEER OTSA T TRS. THY ARE IGNORNT ATTEMPTS
            O UCTE YSEISRETH.
2005/3/3-4 [Transportation/Car] UID:36507 Activity:nil
3/3     How much do you pay for your car insurance?  Who is your provider?
        \_ $508/6 months, 21st Century.  100/300k, 2003 Mazda Protege5, <5k
           miles per year.  13 years with zero records, not even a parking
           ticket.
2005/3/3-4 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:36508 Activity:high
3/3     "AAA Says Average Driving Cost Is 56.2 Cents Per Mile For 2004"
        http://www.csaa.com/global/articledetail/0,,1008010000%257c4513,00.html
        That doesn't even include bridge tolls.  I always thought it's about
        39 cents per mile, per IRS tax forms.
        \_ That's what the IRS gives you, but it's not the real cost.  -tom
           \_ Have you ever estimated the *negative* cost per mile in terms
              of health benefits from riding your bike to work?  That would
              be an interesting calculation.
              \_ I don't know, Viagra can be expensive.
           \_ nog.  that's just the cost of running/maintaining the car.
              it doesn't include the cost say on your health.  or roads.
              \_ Or the cost of suburban sprawl or the cost in lost
                 farmland or the cost to rebuild all the infrastructure
                 left behind in crumbling cities or the cost in broken
                 communities or the cost....
        \_ Public transportation looks better and better once you start
           looking at the full costs of owning a car.  If you drive for
           100 miles, you pay approx $50 ...
           \_ did you include all the taxes people pay into it?
              \_ The taxes paid into the freeway system or the public
                 transportation system?
              \_ Since both public transportation and cars are massively
                 subsidized, that doesn't seem necessary.  And I meant
                 better as in cheaper, not more convenient.  And might
                 become more "convenient" in the next few years as
                 oil prices zoom up.
           \_ Public transporation stinks. The majority of people will
              gladly pay for the additional cost to NOT have to take
              public transportation. As for the health risk, I think
              that you are obviously more likely to die in a car than
              the subway. However, I bet you're more likely to get sick
              from communicable diseases taking the public transport than
              if you were to own your own car.
              In addition, the convenience of a car far outweigh its costs.
              Business also would be a lot less efficient if we had to
              rely on public transport. It may work in high density areas
              like N.Y. N.Y or S.F., but in places like California, especially
              Southern California, it certainly will not work.
              \_ It is already starting to work. When it takes three hours
                 each way to commute from Riverside to LA by car, people
                 start taking the train, as they have already. If transit
                 was as massively subsidized as the car, it could be a
                 high speed rail link and even more would take it.
                 \_ I wouldn't call 3% working. Riverside is also pretty
                    damn far for a commute into the city. Also, most people
                    in LA don't even work in LA.
                    \_ That is a failure of planning. Just wait till gasoline
                       hits $10/gallon.
                 \_ How are cars more massively subsidized than transit?
                    \_ http://csua.org/u/b8q
                       Tremendous costs are associated with buying and
                       paving over all the parking spaces used by cars.
                       \_ Very useful info!  I didn't know heavy rail actually
                          has lower operating cost than light rail.
                       \_ What's the difference between heavy rail and commuter
                          rail?
                        \_ From the linked article:

                           U.S. rail transit services require about $12.5
                           billion annual public subsidy (total capital
                           and operating expenses minus fares), about an
                           extra $90 per Large Rail city resident. However,
                           economic benefits more than repay these subsidies:
                           rail transit services are estimated to provide
                           $19.4 billion in annual congestion cost savings,
                           $8.0 billion in roadway cost savings,
                           $12.1 billion in parking cost savings,
                           $22.6 billion in consumer cost savings, and
                           $5.6 billion in traffic accident cost savings.

                           So in other words, all those people taking BART
                           and Caltrain aren't driving alongside you on
                           101.
                           \_ My father, a hard core right winger, has
                              come up with his idea of how public transit
                              should work after he worked as a bus driver
                              for a year or so.  Basically, the bus should
                              be free (maybe a dime), and buses should
                              always have right-of-way, and they should
                              have a radio to make lights turn green for
                              them.  People would flock to busses in
                              droves. BART should be free too. -jrleek
                              \_ Turning lights green for the bus doesn't
                                 win you nearly as much as you think; if you
                                 get any kind of regular ridership, the bus
                                 winds up stopping all the time anyway. -tom
                              \_ Lights on San Pablo Ave are already turning
                                 green for the San Pablo Rapid buses.  Check
                                 out
                                 http://www.actransit.org/riderinfo/sanpablo.wu
                              \_ sounds a Socialistic idea.
                                 \_ Yeah.  But in his experiance the
                                    busses were heavily subsidized anyway.
                                    Basically, few rode the things, and
                                    about half or more those who did ride,
                                    rode free or with some discount.  He
                                    gave a lot of free rides.  The money
                                    coming into the till just wasn't
                                    paying for anything anyway. -jrleek
                                    \_ A failure of centralized planning?
                                       I disbelieve!  According to our good
                                       friend tom, it is the free market that is
                                       mathematicall proven (!) not to work.
                                         -- ilyas
                                       \_ Are you really this stup...Oh, right.
                                    \_ I don't get it. I thought conservatives
                                       hate things tied to Socialism.
                                    \_ Not that this is some new idea.
                                       Salt Lake City's light rail system
                                       is free downtown. -jrleek
2005/3/3 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:36509 Activity:high
3/2     Dearliou cesr u am king te troll belw.
        Youatet o nk i  tilend bythe way it s meant as
        humrfothse fusw ve nbeen ndoctrinate by the
        Chrtanales.Te rlelowvealswhy your peple are
        oft oaed an y hkg inversig roles, mabe you can
        actly pahiz it  d le somehing from i, like
        sentvi, espc, nteranfor oher people. -agnostic
        \_ a dk,I dnt hkhe tl wascensored fo religious
           aon  assig elby n Anonmously is iiotic.  People
           olditer tac o relous pople" or whtever in general,
            heshuldsgntinamef the're going t attack someone
            am  ersnll, uld fer tat the motdstay anonymous,
           dth popl ptf e for, bu this whole"dear jrleek"
           a ijut cwrdynretad.  Snd him a fuking email.
           dnoI asntth eho cored t, but I ca see their point.
        \_ a dk,I dnt hkhe tl wascensored f religou
           aon  assig elby n Anonmously is iotic. Pple
           olditer tac o relous pople" or wtever n neral,
            heshuldsgntinamef the're going  attac seone
            am  ersnll, uld fer tat the motstay aonous,
           dth popl ptf e for, bu this whol"dear rlk"
           a ijut cwrdynretad.  Snd him a fking eai
           dnoI asntth eho cored t, but I c see teipoint.
           tie
        \_ o, w he gosi/heiscan frm their ow group of
           nbeieingbelivs anidicule anyone else who don't share
           hei pints ofvw. Ive been waiting for this to happen ever
           inc the fall f Communism in general. - fellow atheist of the
        \_ o, w he gosi/heiscan frm their o groupof
           nbeieingbelivs anidicule anyone lse wh d't share
           hei pints ofvw. Ive been waitingfor ths  happen ever
           inc the fall f Communism in geneal. - elw atheist of the
           church of ahteism.

>>>>>>> Your Changes Above
2005/3/3 [Uncategorized] UID:36510 Activity:nil 66%like:36465
3/2     [repeated troll aggressively deleted]
2005/3/3-4 [Academia/Berkeley/Ocf] UID:36511 Activity:nil
3/3     Do any Corporate City strips feature the CSUA or OCF?
2005/3/3-4 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:36512 Activity:kinda low
3/3     took 3 days to fly around the world, question:
        if world just takes 24 hours to rotate, why did it take 3 days?
        \_ In terms of the questions and responses, this is one of the
           dumbest threads I've ever seen on the motd. I certainly hope
           that most of these are just jokes and nothing more.
           \_ Troll successful!  Mission Accomplished!
        \_ Actually, it takes less than 24 hours to fly around the world,
           you can fly around the world in as little as a couple hours.
           It's also known as "going into orbit."
           \_ This plane was made by Scaled Composites, right?  WHy didn't
              they think of that?
        \_ cant u just stand up and not touch the ground and let the
           earth rotate under your feet then 24 hours later touch the
           same spot?
           \_ Only if you were in a vacuum. But since the atmosphere
              is pushing against things, we don't. Other wise we'd go
              flying off the earth whenever we jump.
              \_ Um... not to meantion inertia and gravity.
           \_ Can't you just jump up on a train and let the train go by under
              you?
           \_ no cuz you'd get hit by trees and buildings
        \_ It depends on which direction you fly.  that's why it takes
           longer to fly from US to Asia than from Asia to US.
           \_ Wow, that's some pretty impressive ignorance.  The wind currents
              have a lot more to do with it.
              \_ A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
                 \_ If the illuminati didn't suppress the information about the
                    hollow Earth, it would take a lot less time to get across
                    the globe.
                    \_ Um, hello?  What about the sun in the middle?  You'd
                       still have to go around that.
                       \_ Well, you could just go into the interstitial
                          space-time vortex.
              \_ Nah, it's just a little game we like to play.  It's called
                 trolling the nerds.
           \_ When launching a satellite, yes, it is a good idea to launch in
              the direction of rotation of the earth, and at the equator, where
              the speed of rotation is greatest.
              If you stay inside the atmosphere, wind matters much more,
              as indicated by the non-trollers.
        \_ Yea, if mother earth doesn't drag the atmosphere with it,
           we can all fly faster.
           \_ But then we can't stand on ground surface under constant 600mph
              easterly wind.
        \_ Amazing.  Shouldn't high school physics be enough to understand this
           issue correctly?  How did those of you with wrong answers got
           admitted to CS in Cal?  This is not a community college.
           \_ How much does the Illuminati pay you to coveR up the Truth?
              Do they have good benefits?
        \_ What are you talking about?  It only takes me 24hrs to go around the
           world by just sitting on my couch!
           \_ Incorrect. It only takes you 24hrs to make a circuit equivalent
              to the circumference of the world by just sitting on your couch.
              There's no excuse for inaccurate language in your spurious
              statements.
        \_ I can go around the world in less than 5 seconds.
           Go to the north pole, or wherever the earth rotates, and walk
           around in a circle.
           \_ Oh, the north pole, where everything goes south ...
           \_ Dummy, you can do that anywhere.  Just call whereever you
              are the center of the world, and walk around it.
2005/3/3-4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:36513 Activity:moderate
3/3     The top post is awesome
        http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog
        \_ Well, now it's the second post.
           \_ I see more posts dated today than I'm willing to read on a
              Shithead(tm) site.  Please identify exactly which post you
              think is "awesome."
              \_ I'm betting this one: http://tinyurl.com/5bpuc
2005/3/3-4 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iran, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:36514 Activity:high
3/3     http://csua.org/u/b8v (AP)
        So ... "diplomats" at an IAEA meeting today said Iran was "starting
        work" on half-mile deep tunnels of hardened concrete at their premier
        site for uranium enrichment.  The IAEA is pissed that Iran didn't tell
        them beforehand.
        Iran also just began construction of a heavy-water nuclear reactor at
        Arak.  Spent fuel from heavy-water reactors is much more easily
        converted to bomb-grade material.  This is in contrast to the Bushehr
        light-water reactor that Russia helped build.  The reactor material for
        light-water reactors is not easily converted to bomb-grade material,
        and anyway, Russia said they would cart it all away when they were
        done and monitor the stuff.
        Britain, France, and Germany asked Iran nicely not to build the
        heavy-water plant.
        So, uh .... what to do?
        \_ I know!  Let's abandon the people of Iraq and Afghanistan and spend
           another $200 billion getting ourselves into another horrible mess!
           What do I win?  -tom
           \_ Interestingly, this news came on the same day that Dubya was
              meeting Condi to talk about offering concessions to Iran to give
              the EU3 more leverage.
              the EU3 more leverage.  The concessions are:  not opposing Iran's
              WTO entry, and not opposing European sales of civilian aircraft
              parts to Iran; in exchange for:  Iran giving up uranium
              enrichment.  The Arak reactor would produce plutonium, which
              I believe doesn't need the laborious enrichment step of using
              hundreds of centrifuges.  And, as you might have guessed, heavy-
              water reactors use unenriched uranium as fuel.
              The Dubya-Condi meeting was announced at least five days in
              advance.
        \_ My prediction of how it will play out:
           Condi has told Dubya that he REALLY needs the world's support.
           The U.S. cannot go it alone on Iran.  Dubya trusts Condi.  She
           advised him to invade Iraq.  The U.S. will be on the same page as
           the EU3, and will try not to substantively undermine them.
           Iran will build its tunnels.  Iran will say it will never give up
           the right to enrich uranium.  There will be an understanding they
           won't do it though, nor build more centrifuges; there will be a set
           limit on centrifuge parts.  Arak will not be built.  Bushehr will
           go ahead as the original plan, maybe with plans for another one or
           two light-water reactors.
           The IAEA will periodically send people to look in the tunnels.
           Iran will receive support for WTO entry and other incentives.
           Freepers will scream and yell. -op
           \_ Nice "it could go like this analysis", even if it isn't very
              likely. Keep up the good work.
              \_ Well, I'm not saying this will be worked out in 6 months.
                 It could take years -- but I believe the U.S. will be
                 resolved to expend all possible options before bombing
                 or a full-scale invasion, the idea being it will need
                 its partners before a full-scale invasion, and bombing
                 would make the situation worse.
                 I do think my prediction is the most likely outcome,
                 and fortunately it seems like the best possible outcome
                 given the players.
                 If you really want to be optimistic, you could say that the
                 essential reason for this whole kissy-kissy make-friends-
                 with-Europe-again thing was a common understanding across
                 the ocean of the need for a united front on Iran. -op
                 \_ I wasn't being sarcastic. I liked your analysis.
                    \_ Yeah, I know.  I was just saying it could take a
                       while. -op
        \_ Okay, I'll also give you a possible "bad" situation:
           Iran says, screw you all, we know you can't do shit (what with
           the U.S. being overstretched, and Europe's people ousting their
           leaders if Blair/Chirac/Schroeder ask for war).
           The Security Council passes sanctions (with Russia and China
           abstaining), the U.S. bombs like crazy, a real coalition forms
           and invades Iran, but the common people in Europe and most
           Democrats are still mighty pissed, Iran becomes likes Iraq today.
           -op
        \_ Watch out there.
           Population of Iran >> Pop. of Iraq >> Pop. of Sunnis Iraq
           Same for land area.
2005/3/3-5 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:36515 Activity:moderate
3/3     Is there a way I can set up my cell phone so it only rings if
        the person calling knows a secret code, and otherwise just goes to
        voicemail?  Or, can it be set up to first go to a message where
        the person calling can choose to leave me a voicemail or to ring the
        phone?  In the latter scenario, this would enable people to call and
        leave a voicemail in the middle of the night without waking me, but
        they would still have the option to ring the phone if they really
        want to talk to me at that minute.
        \_ If you come up with a decent way to do this, could you please let
           me know?  (For now, I have a profile on my phone called "Asleep",
           which is mostly silent; if I expect someone to call at night, then
           I set a non-silent ring tone for that person.  It works okay, but
           what you suggested would be much nicer.)  --mconst
        \_ I think you would need an answering service to handle the
           decision-making and a distinctive ring to only wake you when
           the answering service dials through.  Once your phone has
           forwarded the call to voicemail, it would be up to the voicemail
           provider (usually your cell provider) to handle things.
        \_ In the latter scenario the caller already has an option: if they
           don't want to wake you, don't call in the middle of the night!
           Send email or call in the morning.  As for the first scenario,
           you can get a silent ringtone, set that as the default, and
           assign non-default ones to people you know.
           \_ Yes, but I could have a seperate outgoing message for
              when I'm sleeping and for when I'm awake.  Sometimes I'm up
              at 11pm, sometimes I'm in bed.  The caller doesn't know. -op
        \_ on my cell phone feature wish list: a way to just leave someone
           a voicemail w/out ringing their phone. Sometimes I want to just
           leave someone some info but dont want to talk. Also I HATE
           checking voicemail... but txt msgs are often too cumbersome.
           It'd be great if each persons phone had a voice-to-text thing
           that they could use to create txt msgs.
           \_ If both people are on AT&T, at least, you can send voicemail
              directly: call your own voicemail, and select 2 from the main
              menu.
2005/3/3-5 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:36516 Activity:nil
3/3     What server do I use in cdex to successfully download some of the
        chinese CD track names? windows media player gets it, but cdex gets
        garbage or nothing at all. Thx.
        \_ When you get "garbage," it's only because it's not in unicode.  If
           you switch Windows language setting so that the default code is set
           to Chinese, cdex will display and title it correctly.  You can then
           switch back to English, and the file names will stay in Chinese.
           It's a pain, I know.  I don't know how WMP does it, though.
2005/3/3-5 [Consumer/CellPhone, Consumer/PDA, Computer/SW/Security] UID:36517 Activity:nil
3/3     Anyone know of a good stopwatch/timer that works on a Treo? I've
        tried a few and they all seem to crash when I try to access any
        of the menus. tia.
2005/3/3-6 [Reference/Religion] UID:36518 Activity:high
3/3     A while ago, I complimented a religion right wing person for standing
        up to his principles against overwhelming number of stubborn
        left wing anti-religious idiots looking for frivolous issues to
        fight about. Today, that right wing person slashed back against
        these idiots and brought everyone to a new low. I have lost
        all respect for this person and I'm taking back my compliment. -op
           \_ who actually complimented emarkp?
              \_ Idiots like mice and ilyas. Proof in entry KM 36369:3:2
        \_ You're a weirdo.
        \_ Wasn't that a coupla days ago?
        \_ Wait-a-minute, everyone who complemented him posted by name,
           but you are not posting by name right now. Curious.
           \_ who actually complimented emarkp?
        \_ If I don't believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, the easter
           bunny, and internally inconsistent Christian dogma that makes me
           an idiot?
           \_ no, it has nothing to do with belief. You're an idiot for
              attacking brainwashed Christians. Have more sympathy for them
              for crying out loud.
        \_ You're a weirdo. Why would anyone care about your anonymous
           retraction? I mean wtf? I'm the guy who went back and forth
           with emarkp in the long thread the other day and I do respect
           that he's willing to do that... he actually listens to criticism
           and participates in dialogue, and stands up for what he believes.
           I think that deserves respect even if I think he's wrong. He's
           opened himself up to flak from doofuses like you.
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:March:03 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>