Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:February:13 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/2/13 [Reference/Religion] UID:36159 Activity:very high
2/13    I just saw South Park's episode on Mormons and how Joseph Smith
        translated the bible twice using two different translation plates,
        that Adam&Eve came from Missouri, and that the native Americans
        came from Jerusalem and God made them Red because they had sins.
        I'm a bit bothered by the way South Park disses at other religions...
        I don't know anything about religion and I'm wondering how much of
        South Park's story is really true, and how much of it is made up for
        entertainment value. Any religion expert who would comment on this?
        \_ Disses at "other" religions?  As opposed to what, christianity,
           where Jesus has a talk radio show and screwed Cartman's mom?
           Please identify the religion you think they're not making fun of
           in South Park.
           \_ don't forget that Cartman tried to eliminate Jews because they
              killed Jesus. They haven't really made fun of Buddhism and
              Shintoism yet...
              \_ "Hey there, mister shintoist, merry fucking christmas..."
                 -Mr. Garrison
        \_ I saw this episode about a year ago.  As I recall, it was about
           what you would expect out of SP.  For the first 15 minutes,
           from a 50,000 ft view, the big events were more or less
           correct.  ie, Joseph Smith was directed by an angel to a set of
           gold plates containing the religious history of a people
           formerly on the continent; which he translated by the power of
           God.  As much can be read in the introduction to the Book of
           Mormon.  The details, however, were all completely confused,
           made up, or twisted beyond recognition.  The history of the
           church is recorded in a number of first hand accounts, if you
           are interested.  Currently I'm reading an account by Joseph
           Smith's mother, which is a pretty good read. Unfortunatly,
           the LDS church is a point of contention, and anything you find
           on google would either be all for it, or all against it.
           Usually the latter. -jrleek
           \_ Religions don't easily lend themselves to objective analysis.
              At some point you're always going to find something that you
              will try to explain or discount using methods, either through
              critical heuristics or unquestioning belief, which someone else
              will take issue with.  I'm not religious in any sense;  I wish
              that both people who aren't and those who are would just keep
              it to themselves (and good fucking luck with that.)  -John
           \_ were you offended by South Park?
2005/2/13 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:36160 Activity:very high
2/13    Thought Abu Gharib was bad? Just wait until the Gitmo stuff
        starts to hit the news:
        \_ The NYT continues its slide downhill.  I love the allegations of
           cruelty which we are supposed to connect to Guantanamo but actually
           could have happened in Pakistan before the US had custody (e.g. the
           wired helmet).
           \_ Do you categorically deny that torture is taking place at
              \_ Let's say that it is. Why is that a problem?
                 \_ Because we're supposed to be the good guys, and good
                    guys don't torture people, you thick fucking muppet.  Nor
                    are we supposed to provoke wars, bomb civilians, hijack
                    and enslave children, rape women, raze undefended towns,
                    etc. etc. etc.  And before you come up with some slimy,
                    ill-informed, weak-gutted reasoning, yes, it's all the
                    same reprehensible thing engaged in by thugs, tyrants, and
                    bad guys.  Not good guys.  Bad guys.  Why is this so
                    goddamm difficult to understand?  -John
                    \_ What might shock you is that even if we are
                       torturing those people we are *still* the good
                       guys. It's all relative. They decapitate our
                       people. So we torture some of theirs. BFD. If you
                       want to argue that people are there that should not
                       be that is different. Torture in itself, however,
                       is a non-issue. Only people from touchy feely
                       countries like Sweden and Switzerland worry about
                       this. World powers should not.
                       \_ Whoop, almost caught me on that one, 2nd rate troll.
                          Tip for the aspiring troll-in-training:  the last
                          2 sentences give it away.  -John
                    \_ I think this is a little simple.  What about WWII?
                       Lots of very unsavory things went on during WWII.
                       These unsavory things could not have been avoided by
                       conducting the war in a different way (without making
                       warmaking far less effective), or by avoiding warmaking
                       altogether (which would make us complicit with Hitler).
                       I am not an apologist for torture or immoral things,
                       but the 'good guys/bad guys' dichotomy is silly in this
                       case.  War is inherently immoral.  You need to either
                       be a ruthless utilitarian in war, or abandon war
                       altogether to people with stronger stomachs (or weaker
                       consciences, depending on how you want to look at it).
                         -- ilyas
                       \_ We didn't provoke WWII.  We didn't (on the whole)
                          condone unsavory actions in WWII, and when we did,
                          such as being prepared to use mustard gas, it was
                          wrong, and no I'm not willing to get into a
                          discussion about nukes as, being a military history
                          buff, as well as an intl. relations grad, I'm not
                          sure where I stand on that.  War is not "immoral",
                          it is bad and to be avoided when possible.  Re. the
                          "silly" good guys/bad guys analogy, being seen by
                          poor unfortunate SOBs around the world as a paragon
                          of liberty, truth, and all that jazz is one of the
                          main things the US has had going for it throughout
                          history.  We lose that, we lose a large part of what
                          I personally believe is our identity, idealistic and
                          naive as that may sound.  -John
                          \_ I find this particularily amusing on the
                             anniversary of the bombing of Dresdan. Sweet.
                             \_ "Dresden".  And Hiroshima.  And Nagasaki.  And
                                handing Vlasov army POWs back to the Soviets.
                                And a host of other pretty shitty things.
                                Interesting straw man, equating prison torture
                                with something seen at the time as a military
                                necessity, but pretty horrible in retrospect.
                       \_ What about slavery?  We enslaved black people,
                          thought it was fine, then they got their freedom, and
                          thought separate but equal was fine.  Why can't we go
                          back to slavery or separate-but-equal segregation?
                          Lots of unsavory things happened in America.
                          You need to be either a ruthless utilitarian in
                          domestic policies, or abandon politics altogether to
                          the Democrats! -!John
                       \_ It's pretty questionable whether torture adds any
                          sort of "effectiveness" to our warmaking.
                       \_ "The problem is, this kind of thing occurs in
                          prisons across the country and across the world. And
                          you have to know it's going to be a possibility. And
                          therefore the training and the discipline and the
                          doctrine has to be such that you anticipate that
                          risk. And clearly, that wasn't done to the extent it
                          should." -Rumsfeld, Feb 3 2005
2005/2/13 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:36161 Activity:nil
2/13    Why is our generation so fucking lazy?  What happened to this country?
        \_ The Internet
        \_ Why do things yourselves when you can exploit cheap labor in India?
2005/2/13-15 [Computer/HW/Memory] UID:36162 Activity:high
2/13    Buying 1GB PC3200 DDR memory for my G5-- any suggestions? I'm leary
        of the top 5 returns from pricewatch....
        \_ on a G5 make sure you get good memory and not some generic
           PW crap. I'd check Kingston to find out what sort of timing
           and stuff they'd put on their branded Mac compatible RAM and
           then go w/ a generic maker that matches those specs (or
           just get the Kingston/Crucial/etc at some discount shop).
        \_ Are you in the bay area? If so, just wait for Fry's to have
           a sale on 2x512 PC3200 DDR Ram by either Corsair or Kingston.
           A agree w/ the above poster, get good name brand ram for
           I agree w/ the above poster, get good name brand ram for
           your G5.
        \_ Geil
           \_ why are new computers so picky about RAM? I had similar RAM
              issues with my new Athlon MB which only took expensive RAM even
              though they had the exact same specifications. So much for
              plug-and-play. It's becoming more like plug-and-hope-to-play.
                 \_ The reason that newer computers are picky is that
                    as cpus get faster and faster you have to keep
                    the damn thing fed w/ data faster and faster.
                    This means that that the RAM must strictly
                    adhere to the cpu's tolerances or things just
                    won't work (if signal coming from ram is off
                    by just a few ns, it didn't use to be a big
                    deal, now, it is well nigh impossible to tell
                    if there was an error, &c.)
                    While the cheap ram might work, they clearly
                    do not test the chips as rigorously as the
                    brand name vendors.
              \_ Uhm, no. Computers have ALWAYS been picky about memory. We
                 used to have issues on SDRAMs during the PIII days, especially
                 when the first chipsets came out. I still have a board that
                 only takes Samsung SDRAM. You need to go read your Mobo
                 manual and find out what type and make of RAM it supports.
                 Generic cheapo RAM sometimes are pulls and there are
                 timing issues with pulls. Certain Mobos just are very
                 sensitive to timing issues on RAM, so be careful.
                 \_ No, they haven't.  Previously, only slot type and
                    layout.  -John
                 \_ How old are you William? I'm 35. Back in my days when
                    Pentium 75Mhz was hot and everyone overclocked it to
                    100Mhz, we could use whatever RAM we wanted. You're right
                    in respect to your time frame, and I'm right in respect
                    to my time frame. Kids these days...
                    \_ Dude, you are a fossil.
                    \_ Young punk. When I first started w/ computers RAM
                       was ferrite cores.
                        \_ I used to draw on my dad's old punch cards with
                           crayon when I was a kid, does that count?
                           \_ At least you know what a punch card is.
                              My intern saw one and though it was some
                              kind of ballot.
                      \_ gosh I miss the punchcard days when punchcard
                         specifications were simple and complete and they
                         didn't have any compatibility issue. Nowadays
                         everything's bigger, harder to specify, and
                         near impossible for formal compatibility validation.
                  \_ All heil motd, 70's version of newsgroup, still
                     operational as of 2005           -elite guy from the 80s
           \_ Is there a difference between a single 1GB stick and two 512mbs?
              \_ Yes, two take up two slots and can run in dual-channel mode.
                 \_ Clever. Is there a difference in performance?
                    \_ There is with single vs. dual channel if the motherboard
                       supports it. Otherwise it should be the same unless the
                       mobo specifies otherwise.
                       \_ FYI, the G5 supports dual channel.
              \_ you must install symmetric pairs of RAM stick in a G5
2005/2/13-15 [Computer, Computer/SW] UID:36163 Activity:nil
2/12    In FinkCommander, is there a way to check up on the progress of
        a source/binary install? The status bar says it is downloading
        a file, but I have no idea if it's progressing or not. Thanks.
        \_ Open up the Activity Monitor, and see if there is any network
           activity occuring. -phale
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:February:13 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>