Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:February:08 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2005/2/8 [Uncategorized] UID:36095 Activity:nil
2/8     Hey ilyas, do you play with dreidel? Do you know the lyrics to
        Eight Little Candles? How about Five Little Latkes? Let's LightThe
        Menorah?
2005/2/8 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:36096 Activity:moderate
2/7     Playstation 3 preview pic
        link:tinyurl.com/6xmuj  -John
        \_ I don't see BELLS and WHISTLES.
        \_ I'd rather have a p-p-p-powerbook
           \_ I'll totally buy one, could you ship me one?  I'll pay when
              I get it.  Is overseas shipping ok?
2005/2/8 [Consumer/Audio] UID:36097 Activity:high
2/8     Question for our local radio experts.  How do I find out who's
        broadcasting a signal at a certain frequency?  I looked at the FCC
        frequency allocation at http://www.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum and it is not very
        helpful.  Is there a number I can call?  The offending signal is a
        really high power tone at around 463.6 MHz, and what makes it annoying
        is that it comes and goes totally randomly.  If I could talk to whoever
        is making the signal, maybe I could find out when they turn the damn
        thing off(it turns off just often enough to make it really hard to
        characterize.) Thanks.
        \_ I solved my own problem.  If anyone cares, it's this search page:
           http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLicense.jsp and
           if you click on "advanced license search", and you can search
           by both frequency range and physical location.  I'm pretty
           sure I've found the culprit. -op
           \_ Who was it???
              \_ Physical plant of the university where our lab is.  I can
                 literally see the damn antennas out the window.
                 \_ If they have a license, does that mean they can legally
                    transmit at that frequency?  Maybe you are the one who
                    shouldn't be using that frequency?
                    \_ Of course they can, and I'm not transmitting.  I'm
                       just *measuring* in that band.  Obviously I'm not
                       going to get physical plant to just stop using
                       their system, but just knowing that there's no
                       way to turn it off is usefull information to me.
        \_ How 'bout filing a complaint with the fcc?  they would have a lot
           more resources to find it.
2005/2/8-9 [Recreation/Humor] UID:36098 Activity:moderate
2/8     Anyone buy from http://t-shirthumor.com?  They're on the up and up, right?
        They won't sell my credit card number to NAMBLA?  In general, how
        should I look into this kinda of thing?  (Whether sites are legit,
        not NAMBLA, you perv.)
        \_ I already gave your info to NAMBLA back when yermom asked me to.
        \_ So, you're more concerned that some credit card thief might be
           a pervert than that they will steal your money and ruin your
           credit?  You voted for Bush, didn't you?
           \_ BWAHAHAHA!  You're an idiot! -!op
              \_ You seem to have trouble with this whole "humor" thing, huh?
                 -!pp
                 \_ BWAHAHAHA!  You're ALSO an idiot! -!op
                    \_ BWAHAHAHA!  You're ALSO an idiot! -!op
                       \_ OMG, the motd is caught in an infinite loop!
                          \_ OMG, the motd is caught in an infinite loop!
        \_ NAMBLA? North American Marlon Brando Look Alike?

[ deleting bitch. ]
           \_ North American Man Balogna Love Association -- for those who
              truly love their lunch meats.
2005/2/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:36099 Activity:kinda low
2/8     I would like to destroy/wipe the data in a particular directory
        of a portable linux computer without wiping the whole disk. Any
        suggestions for how to do this easily?
        \_ rm. If you are worried aboyt someone undeleting and
           discovering your porno collection you can write a script
           and overwrite each file with /dev/zero bits.
           \_ any experience with "wipe"? http://abaababa.ouvaton.org/wipe
           \_ When you write data to a linux file, does it write the data to
              new sectors, or does it overwirte the original data in the same
              sectors?
           \_ Overwriting with 0 isn't good enough.  /dev/random might be
              better, but still isn't good enough.
                \_ If you are very concerned about getting rid of it, some
                   definitions of "military" grade wipe specify something
                   like 19 overwrites with as-random-as-possible 010101
                   strings.  Forensics outfits like Kroll and Guidance (and
                   even commercial SW like EnCase) can do some pretty unlikely
                   data recovery.  The only way to reliably completely
                   destroy drive contents is to physically shred the disk
                   after multiple sequential white noise overwrites.  -John
                \_ dropping it from Empire State Building is the best
        \_ rm -P
           This won't actually do the job (see
           http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/source/sdelete.shtml for a windows
           utility that will do the job--source available) but it's better than
           nothing.  (Oops, I have no idea if that option is available on
           linux.)
        \_ The rm manpage recommends "shred". Anybody know if shread
           would work on ext3 with data=journal mode?
           \_ It should. If in doubt, mount the partition as ext2,
              run shred, unmount and remount as ext3.
2005/2/8-9 [Politics/Foreign] UID:36100 Activity:high
2/8     This is awesome!  Go racial segregation!
        http://www.housing.berkeley.edu/livingatcal/themeprograms.html
        \_ Self-selecting segregation is freedom of choice.
           \_ So is discrimination.
              \_ No, it's illegal to discriminate.  It's legal to be a rascist.
           \_ I really do think Cal should not officially encourage the ones
              that are race based. Why do they only have 3 races anyway? What
              about the other ethnicities? The gay/lesbian one sounds fun:
              "spacious suite-style community offers a comfortable and intimate
              living environment". It needs to be intimate for all the gay sex.
              Hey how surprising that there's no religious based one...
        \_ since the dawn of time mankind has been discriminating against
           each other, within his own town, abode, workplace, everywhere.
           The only solution is the one Brazilians embrace. Mix everyone up
           so much that you're unable to tell who and what you are. In such a
           world, there is less discrimination.
           \_ Yeah, then you have discrimination based on socioeconomic status.
              Have you been to Brazil?  It's a shithole, a total cluster fuck
              of a country.
              \_ Have you? It does pretty well for a total cluster fuck of
                 a country. And tell us a place where there ISN'T
                 discrimination based on a socioeconomic status.
                 \_ Brazil has more problems than the average country.
                    \_ Brazil has more hot babes that do anal than your
                       average country.
                       \_ And you know this how?
                       \_ Is that because people in Brazil are used to
                          being f***ed up the ass?
              \_ My officemate is from Brazil. He said his country is so poor
                 and so fucked up, everyone tries to help each other out in
                 his little town, because they have nothing else but each
                 other. This proves one thing. When you get all materialistic
                 you become a selfish Porsche driving asshole and when you've
                 got nothing, you become more compassionate. It's clear that
                 we should nuke USA to make the country more compassionate -op
                 \_ I think you meant "-pp" since you're sure as heck not
                    -op. -op
                 \_ What happens if you are a Porsche driving asshole
                    from Brazil? I know one of those.
                    \_ From the pictures I've seen they tend to reck
                       spectacularly on the highways.  Ferrari's turned into
                       Altoids tins and the like.
2005/2/8 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:36101 Activity:moderate
2/8     How do you guys get rid of spam in this account?
        \_ spamassassin -> gmail
2005/2/8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:36102 Activity:high
2/8     Bets on how long before the Israelis and Palestinians start shooting
        again? Is Vegas in on it yet? I give it two weeks.
        \_ Well, considering Hamas claims the cease fire doesn't apply to
           them, I'd say, not long.  It's a pretty classic pattern.
           Palestinian government calls cease fire, but doesn't enforce
           it.  Radicals kill some Isrealis.  Isrealis kill some radicals.
           Palestinians go back to endorsing terrorism because the Isralis
           broke the cease fire.
           \_ The PA doesn't "enforce it" because they are not powerful
              enough. Then Isreal punishes the PA for not enforcing it
              by rocketing their jails and killing some of their leaders,
              making them even less able to enforce it. General idiocy by
              both sides abounds.
2005/2/8 [Uncategorized] UID:36103 Activity:high
2/8     ilyas, shame on you for posting a 15K political troll from January 8th
        \_ Get a life kchang. -- ilyas
          \_ Get a life both luz3rs. -- !ilyas !kchang
        \_ SHALOM ilyas, do you nkow the lyrics to Eight Little Candles?
        \_ Can't we all just get along?
2005/2/8 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:36104 Activity:high
2/8     Is there any way to get trn to keep its connection alive?  I keep
        getting a closed socket error.
        \_ Yeah, I'm having this problem with my gf too.
        \_ I also have this problem with trn.
           \_ It's been worse recently.  I wonder if it was done on
              purpose?  I used to leave trn running and come back later,
              but now if I do it seems to time out after 5 or 10 minutes.
2005/2/8-9 [Industry/Jobs] UID:36105 Activity:high
2/8     I have a salary negotiation for a new job coming up.  If the median
        for that kind of work is $X/yr, what should I ask for an opening
        request?  Too high and I'll scare them off, too low and I'm selling
        myself short.
        \_ Ask for what you are worth and what you would be happy with.
           If in doubt, ask for more rather than less. You won't scare
           them off if they are a good place to work. They will just say:
           "Sorry, but this is our final offer: $xxx". Better to be
           overpaid than underpaid.
           \_ I think I'm worth $X.  Except for envy, I'd probably be happy
              with only 0.75X.  If I ask for 1.15X, would that be bad?
              \_ No.
              \_ It would not be bad, but don't be surprised if you don't
                 get it. Salary negotiation is its own area of expertise
                 and you should at least read up on it, if you want to get
                 paid anything near what you are worth.
                 \_ "A good trade is when you're happy and the other guy's
                    happy, regardless of what you paid for what."  -John
                    \_ yeah, gay sex is when both sides are happy
                     \_ Cause after straight sex the woman just lies there
                        crying and feeling like a dirty filthy whore?
        \_ Update: Her: What are you expecting
           Me: Market rate
           Her: There a range we have budgeted... <beating around the bush>
           Me: I think 1.15X sounds reasonable
           Her: <silence> ... That's within our range.
           \_ did you enjoy watching her beat around her bush?
           \_ may I ask what you do and what your experience is? I'm asking
              because if you're a code monkey, the salary range is actually
              pretty big
           \- re: the "envy" comment ... while i wouldn't characterize it as
              envy, but more of a fairness/do i look like a bitch factor,
              it does offend me when people with much lower productivity
              are paid better. the productivity difference in the computer
              world can easily be a couple of factors and not 10s of percent.
              of course the company can try to make it up in other ways
              [nicer office, more flex time/telecommute, interesting project,
              not having to do shit work, carry pager etc.] --psb
              \_ how much do you get paid for having a lot of experience but
                 no college degree? Thanks Partha
                 \_ I know someone who has a GED who makes about 1/4 million
                    dollars a year as some kind of fancy sysadmin
              \_ I agree with this. No one likes to find out that his
                 incompetent coworker on the verge of being fired all the
                 time makes more. Yes, this happened to me many times
                 before I learned to stop being a chump and make a demand.
                 \- well there is also the emperor has no clothes phenomenon.
                    i have a colleague that spends a lot of time traveling
                    to give seminars, has a couple of published books, is on
                    the editorial boards of mutliple things but is a demon-
                    strable moron ... to the point where his comments in
                    meetings have led to embarassed silences, people tell
                    stories about his cluelessness, share strategies for
                    dealing with his dumb ideas etc. it seems like sleazyness
                    [like this guy claims to have taught at uc berkeley ...
                    now either he did so once or means uc extension] works
                    as does shmoozing [he spends a lot of time gladhanding,
                    which is easy to do when you dont have work obligations]
                                                                   --psb
            \_ If you give a figure first, you lose. The game is to
               continue to ask for market rate until they break down and
               cough up a number - then refuse it until they tell you no.
               I am glad you got what you wanted, though.
2005/2/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/Military] UID:36106 Activity:kinda low
2/8     Is there any conspiracy theory which is most likely true?
        \_ There really was a conspiracy to hide information about UFO's from
           the public.  The nonexistence of aliens did not stop the mindless
           wheels of government.
           http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/97unclass/ufo.html
           \_ um yes, gov't consipiracy to cover up UFOs are true.
        \_ What do you mean? They're all true!
        \_ The Warren Commission report on the JFK assassination was almost
           certainly a coverup. I personally think they were covering up the
           fact that they really had no idea what happened, not that nutjob
           theory of your choice did it, but who really knows?
2005/2/8-9 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36107 Activity:very high
2/8     Today's stale, boring-ass motd brought to you by the csua moral
        majority.  Good work, guys.
        \_ Hey, at least I contributed by repeatedly insulting stupid
           Christians.  What have YOU done to make the motd more entertaining
           today? -- ilyas
           \_ huh?  your silliness was exposed, and then you deleted the
              whole thread to cover it up, and that's the smartest thing
              you did today.
              \_ It was?  I did? -- ilyas
                 \_ "Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than
                     to speak and remove all doubt."  -Abraham Lincoln
                 \_ your reasoning went like this: "there are gays animals,
                    so some humans must be genetically gay".  If you can't
                    see how silly that is, I don't know what to say.
                    \_ This is amazing.  I didn't know people like you
                       actually existed here.  I am not sure how I feel
                       about that. -- ilyas
                       \_ heh, this coming from someone who keep calling
                          people stupid.
                    \_ What's stupid about that?  Are you saying all human
                       homosexuals are so by choice?  Are you saying that
                       no animals are gay (I guess homosexual for animals
                       isn't proper usage)?  Tell us, Lassie!  -John
                       \_ huh?  it's pretty obvious what I've said and
                          have not said.  just read.  Ilya's reasoning
                          is silly because it is like, "there are
                          cannibals in the animal world.  Jeffrey
                          Dahmer ate people.  Thus cannbalism must be
                          genetic for Jeffrey Dahlmer."
           \_ Obviously I wasn't talking about you.  You know who I'm talking
              about (the stupid Christians).
           \_ why do you hate Christian, oh so wise Israelyas?
              \_ Not all Christians are stupid.  I'll assume he was only
                 talking about the stupid ones.  --intelligent Xian
              \_ Dude, I give ilyas as hard a time as the next guy, but
                 what's with all the ilyas is jewish talk?  What are you
                 getting at?
                 \_ I am an evil neocon! -- ilyas
                    \_ Right.  You realize you're one of the few who
                       equates being Jewish with being a Neocon, right?
                       \_ Boy, nothing gets by you, does it.  Not even my
                          sarcasm.  I don't equate the word 'neocon' with
                          anything.  It's a non-word.  A non-concept.  It's
                          a label that sounds vaguely negative, used for
                          political ends.  It is devoud of content. -- ilyas
                          \_ I think you mean me when you said "you". That
                             wasn't me. I normally grok sarcasm and I
                             normally sign my posts. To quote yourself, "Meh"
                              -- ulysses
                             \_ I didn't think it was you.  -- ilyas
                               \_ Oh. Well. I'll just wander off now... -- u
                          \_ Irving Kristol (Bill Kristol's father) uses
                             this word to describe the political philosophy
                             he had a hand in creating. I think the
                             term is not incoherent (Orwell, forgive me).
                             http://csua.org/u/40g  - ciyer
                             \_ Perhaps as used by Irving Kristol the word is
                                not incoherent.  It is fairly incoherent as
                                used by most soda denisens and contributers to
                                wikipedia. -- ilyas
              \_ "I am neither russian nor jewish. -- ilyas" KAIS MOTD 35389:6
                 \_ I'm both!  And I'm a fat black woman named Frieda!  -John
        \_ Sorry, I have been busy working. -motd thought leader
2005/2/8-9 [Computer/Domains, Politics] UID:36108 Activity:nil
2/8     Experts: International Domain Names May Pose Threat
        http://www.computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,99613,00.html?nlid=AM_B
2005/2/8-9 [Recreation/Dating] UID:36109 Activity:high
2/8    So I read somewhere that when asked, husbands were more likely to say
       that if they had to do it all over again, they'd pick the same spouse
       (80%) while wives were even (only 50% say they would've picked the
       same spouse knowing what they know now). Obviously not exactly a
       scientific study, but it was an interesting anecdote. I had the
       impression that it was guys who are more committment phobic than
       women were, do people actually get the same impression, and if
       so, do you think it's true? Or is the reverse true, that women
       (especially today) are more likely to end relationships?
       Just a thought in light of relationship day and to get something
       semi-nonboring on the motd.
       \_ Why do men usually scan the menu, pick and item, and put the
          menu down, while women dither about it for 15 minutes, then
          change their mind three times after the waiter comes?
          I think these are related.  Women are much better than us at
          some things, and making decisions isn't one of them.
          \_ Not always true, I have found that women can make excellent
             managers.  The menu thing seems to be true though, and once
             it finally is time to order, it's often: "I want X - Y +
             Z done in style A and substitute B for C"
             \_ "Yes, I'll have the creme brule. Hold the eggs and sugar."
       \_ Women have always been more likely to end relationships. Guys
          will hang on to the bitter end while they bang her best friend.
       \_ It may have something to do with expectations. I think guys are
          easier to please in the marriage department. Women have more
          complex needs.
        \_Maybe it's because woman who are less committment phobic go
          into the wrong relationship quicker and thus have regrets, while
          men, who are more committment phobic hold out till they know
          for absolutly sure and thus do not regret their decisions?
        \_ I think the whole commitment-phobe-male stereotype is mostly
           a myth. TV can make stupid women believe anything.  -soda gal
        \-Maybe men are less likely to complain because for them the
          shortcomings of a spouse can be made up for by cheating [wife
          becomes fatty] but for women, cheating doesnt solve the problem
          [not enough bling provided by husband], so they have to escalate
          to divorce more readily. --psb
2005/2/8-10 [Uncategorized] UID:36110 Activity:moderate
2/8     Will the iBooks ever get the scrolling trackpad (two-point)?
        \_ Perhaps in April, but more likely it will in the fall.
           \_ Where did you find this? Are you inside Apple?
        \_ Don't all PCs already do this in SW? --apple user
           \_ obOneButtonMouseRant
2005/2/8-10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Science/Space] UID:36111 Activity:very high
2/8     What's the best pen?
        \_ bic round stick. just ask any writer or john stewart.
                                                   \_ jon
           \_ they leak.
           \_ they're acceptable sometimes. not very slick.
        \_ uni-ball VISION, the micro version, blue.
           \_ how often does this thing leave a blot?
              \_ If you're not used to it, it can blot, and it depends on
                 your writing/drawing style, but I agree with pp that once
                 you're used to it, it's the best.
           \_ Uni-Ball Vision black, biyotch!
        \_ how are those Fisher Space Pens for general use?
           \_ Impractical but cute; they write just fine.  If you want really
              stylish, go for a Graf von Faber Castell fountain pen.  Never
              blots, nice heft, real pleasure to write with.  What are you
              looking for?  Drawing/drafting, writing, doodling?  -John
              \_ Just whatever. Not drawing/drafting. And uh, under $20.
                 \_ Ah.  I like Lamy Vista rollerball pens with M62 super
                    plus 205 ink cartridges.  http://www.lamy.de .  -John
                    \_ a pen connoisseur!  I have a Lamy 2000 fountain pen,
                       nothing else writes so smoothly - it's awesome!
                        \_ Well I just got it on a lark once when I bought
                           about 4 or 5 decent pens to try out.  I still
                           think the F-C fountain pen my gf gave me blows away
                           all the Cross or other expensive pens I've ever
                           had by a mile.  The really nice ones are at
                           http://www.graf-von-faber-castell.com although
                           <DEAD>faber-castell.com<DEAD> has really good quality pens too.
                           So does Caran d'Ache if you're into this sort of
                           thing -- http://www.carandache.ch .  $$$ but
                           really worth it.  -John
                           \_ Ever try a S.T. Dupont?  If so, how's it compare
                              to the F-C?  -nivra
                              \_ Not tried, seen.  Dunno, go to an expensive
                                 pen shop and try them all.  If they balk at
                                 letting you try out every pen in the place
                                 before you blow $700 on a writing implement,
                                 vote with your wallet.  -John
                    \_  The Lamy Safari is worth taking a look at if you
                        want to try a fountain pen. Quite decent, sturdy,
                        costs $25 to $30. -pvg
           \_ "During the space race back in the 1960's, NASA was faced with a
              major problem. The astronaut needed a pen that would write in the
              vacuum of space. NASA went to work. At a cost of $1.5 million
              they developed the "Astronaut Pen". Some of you may remember. It
              enjoyed minor success on the commercial market.
              The Russians were faced with the same dilemma.
              They used a pencil."
              http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
        \_ Pilot G5
        \_ I'm not a pen connoisseur, but these days, I usually buy whatever
           pen that uses gel ink.
           \_ That doesn't smear right? I don't know if I've ever tried it.
              It sounds like the hot ticket... no smear and water resistant.
              \_ I mainly like it, because they write smoothly. -pp
        \_ Why use pen anyway except for throw-away doodling?
           \_ Lab notebooks have to be in pen.
        \_ I love the Sensa, it actually uses the "Space Pen" refills
           mentioned above.  The plasium shell is great, it's very
           comfortible, molds around your finger (ergonomic).   Also
           equally counter-balanced and looks way too cool!  Had mine for
           3 years, works like a charm, highly recommended!
        \_ I thought people from China blowing off thousands for expensive
           watches were dumb.  Didn't know it's the same over here, just
           that it's pens.
2005/2/8-9 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:36112 Activity:very high
2/8     http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,146797,00.html
        I have to say this is the hottest junior high teacher I have ever
        seen. If I were the same 13 year old, I'd shut up and enjoy the ride.
        \_ There was a recent case where the teacher was hotter.
           \_ Agreed.  That was Debra Lafave.
        \_ I wonder if this is the same school where the principal banned
           War Veterans for Peace from distributing information to students.
        \_ My French teacher in HS was hotter--she as also the swim coach.
           Tall, blonde, liked to wear red minidresess.  -John
           \_ Damn you.  My French teacher in high school was about 65, short,
              and fat.  Fortunately, she didn't like to wear red minidresess.
        \_ I had the hots for two teachers, both hotter than this one. In
           biology class, watching her always kept my thoughts on topic. Damn.
           \_ Human Biology?
        \_ try http://afterschooldoc.com and look for "Debra Lafave".  Her ex-husband
           was interviewed on Larry King, and seemed cool and decent even
           though he was humiliated by the whole thing.
           \_ Or just: http://images.google.com/images?q=debra%20lafave
        \_ Seconded.  I'll bet every horny 13 year old boy (is there any
           other kind) was dreaming about banging her -- and one of them
           got lucky ...
        \_ Is there a NAWBLA?
           \_ North American Wayne Brady Look Alikes?
2005/2/8-10 [Health/Disease/General] UID:36113 Activity:very high
2/8     I'm writing a report on Things We Didn't Know Were Harmful, on things
        like lead paint (1950s), asbesto insulation (1960s), early birth
        control pills (1960s) and other stuff, what are other examples you
        guys can think of? ok thx
        \_ the dot-com boom.
        \_ wireless
        \_ Cigarettes
           Also, to some degree, radiation from nukes--look at
           http://www.aracnet.com/~pdxavets/reedk.htm  -John
           http://www.aracnet.com/~pdxavets/reedk.htm
           In the 17th century some people thought mercury was a cure-all
           medicine, Romans built water pipes out of lead.  -John
           \_ John. tobacco and lead pipes were already mentioned. :(
                \_ Yeah--they cause short attention span.  Sorry. -John
        \_ FD&C Red #2
           \_ "Food Drug & Commission"?
              \_ Food, Drug, and Cosmetic.  You'll also sometimes see just
                 D&C or External D&C, depending on what the colors are
                 approved for.  http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/colorfac.html
        \_ non-biodegradable detergents
        \_ thalidomyde
        \_ X-ray machines as a gimmick in shoe stores
           \_ "Ra-di-a-tion. Yes, indeed. You hear the most outrageous lies
              about it. Half-baked goggle-box do-gooders telling everybody it's
              bad for you. Pernicious nonsense! Everybody could stand a hundred
              chest X-rays a year. They ought to have them, too."
        \_ Bioaccumulated pesticides
        \_ Lead and mercury
           \_ Specific example: Amalgams, aka "silver filling" despite it
              being made up of ~50% mercury.
              \_ Amalgams are stull used.  They are packaged now so that the
                 mercury isn't free for very long.
                 \_ We studied this in chemistry at UCB. There is/was no risk.
                    The amounts involved are so small.
                    \_ Dude, you went to Berkeley?  How gay!
                    \_ When?  Your info may be dated.  EPA now recommends intake
                       levels somewhere around 5-8 ppm, orders of magnitude lower
                       than previously accepted.  Additionally, there were studies
                       finding correlation between post-natal defects and number
                       of amalgam fillings the mother has.  The theory is that
                       mercury gas emitted from the filling(what's that word for
                       straight solid-->gas chemical conversion?) is on the order
                       of 5-10 ppm per day.
                       levels somewhere around 5-8 ppm, orders of magnitude
                       lower than previously accepted.  Additionally, there
                       were studies finding correlation between post-natal
                       defects and number of amalgam fillings the mother has.
                       The theory is that mercury gas emitted from the
                       filling(what's that word for straight solid-->gas
                       chemical conversion?) is on the order of 5-10 ppm per
                       day.
                       \_ 1991. Do you trust chemistry or statistics? The
                          word you want is sublimate, btw.
           \_ leaded gasoline, lead water pipes, lead paint, etc.
              \_ And before that, lead-based cosmetics!
        \_ Bleeding out a fever with leeches
           \_ http://www.biopharm-leeches.com
        \_ Uranium-lined water coolers to provide 'healthful' radiation in
           your drinking water.  (I'm not making this up)
           Also Fiestaware and other uranium-ore glazed ceramics.
           \_ Did these actually turn out to be harmful?  I was under the
              impression that _small_ amounts of radiation were actually
              good for your health.
              \_ Small amounts of radiation exposure happens naturally and is
                 probably important for long-term evolution, but it is never
                 good for the individual (with the exception of highly
                 targeted medical therapy).  These coolers produced
                 contaminated water far in excess of 'safe' levels.
                 If you want to learn more, look up 'revigator'.
        \_ DDT: "So safe you can spray it over residential areas!"
           \_ i found some page claiming DDT really is safe and saved millions
              of lives wrt malaria and it was all a liberal kook plot
              \_ It was kind of a cool substance-- didn't smell bad, didn't
                 really cause too much harm as a percentage of its use.  The
                 chain from runoff -> fish collecting it -> birds eat fish ->
                 thin bird eggshells seems pretty long and unexpectable.
              \_ One glass of orange juice a day is about 0.03% HERP (Human
                 Exposure dose/Rodent Potency dose) from d-limonene.  3 cups
                 of coffee a day is 0.1% HERP from caffeic acid.  Pre-1972 DDT
                 intake was about 0.002% HERP.  It's somewhat worse than a plum
                 a day at 0.001% HERP.  (ref "The Skeptical Environmentalist")
                 \_ This may indeed but the case, but I thought the problem
                    with DDT is not that it is directly harmful to humans,
                    but it is dangerous to many other animals in the
                    ecosystem.
                    \_ Yes, that was the disinformation in "Silent Spring"
                       \_ See, some people are still confused about this!
                 \_ The _Skeptical_Environmentalist_ that was written by a non
                    expert talking about things way out of his field of
                    experience and was debunked by both Science and Nature.
                    That _Skeptical_Environmentalist_, right?
                    \_ The case for and against the Skeptical Environmentalist
                       is pretty well documented.  You are welcome to read up
                       on it and judge the worthiness of the book yourself.
                       \_ http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1310131/posts
                       \_ http://www.greenspirit.com/lomborg , by Patrick
                          Moore, cofounder of Greenpeace.
              \_ This is actually taught to middle and high school students
                 thru pages at http://wise.berkeley.edu  Supported by an NSF
                 grant of course.
                 \_ Unfortunately, exposure to DDT causes penis and testicular
                    shrinkage in animals.  One might argue that no benefit is
                    worth that.  Of course, CSUA members wouldn't care much
                    about that one way or the other.
                    \_ Hey, speak for yourself buddy: that sounds like a
                       freakin nightmare to me.  What the heck is wrong with
                       you?
                       \_ Yermom often complains about my large penis. I
                          was just trying to be considerate.
                    \_ What dosage was required for that? I love those studies
                       where they'll like have the critters drinking the stuff.
        \_ Trans-saturated fats.  Margarine is worse for you than butter.
           \_ Are you serious?
              \_ http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2003pres/20030709.html
              \_ This is pretty generally accepted in the last few years.
           \_ Not sure about this. Ignoring transfats, what about cholesterol?
              Butter has it and margarine does not.
        \_ tobacco
        \_ germs (i.e. not washing your hands in hospitals)
        \_ MTBE
        \_ Microsoft circa 1984.
        \_ Depleted uranium bullets used in gulf war causes impotence. Heated
           CPU and other electronic compounds causes birth defects. Alumnium
           cans in Coke/Pepsi causes Parkinsons disease. Tupperware and heated
           plastics in microwave triggers gay genes.        -future man, 2040
        \_ leftists
           \_ I think it's just "Tupperware and heated plastics", not
              necessarily in microwave.
           \_ aluminum: also Alzheimer's. And diet Coke in alumnimum = double
              whammy aspartame brain tumors.
        \_ Cocaine in Coca-cola.
        \_ leftists
        \_ Wow, cool list above. Here's a vote for posting a link to your
           report on the motd once you're done. Seems like it could be a fun
           read.
           \_ seconded.
        \_ Agent Orange
        \_ Teflon
        \_ The material used in flame-resistant mattress.  I heard on the radio
           recently that it causes breast cancer.
        \_ Thalidomide
           \_ Already mentioned above.
        \_ Silicone implants.
        \_ Just saw an article or Daily Cal or somewhere else today on
           the link between green tea and stomach cancer cases among
           Asian-Americans.
           \_ I thought green tea is supposed to help prevent cancer.
        \_ sunbathing
        \_ red meat
        \_ refined flour http://drcranton.com/nutrition/bread.htm
           \_ Thanks!  I thought the wheat bread from Safeway was nutritious!
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:February:08 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>