Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:February:07 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/2/7 [Computer/Domains, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:36082 Activity:nil
2/06    [Trimmed.]
              \_ yep. here's some spamassassin debug output:
                 debug: SPF: checking HELO (,
                 debug: SPF: trimmed HELO down to ''
                 debug: SPF: query for / result:
                 \_ Ouch, that would do it.  You might want to report this
                    as a bug to the spamassassin people.
                    \_ Well, we should also add an spf record for
             , instead of just for csua...
                    \_ open bug since last october :(
                       \_ Yeah, I saw that.  I'd submit a new bug report,
                          though -- yours is a much clearer-cut case, and
                          might be more likely to get a response.
2005/2/7 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:36083 Activity:nil
2/6     One of those "programs" that must be "redundant"
2005/2/7 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:36084 Activity:nil
2/7     Does anyone else have a gmail account with 50 (yes 50)
        gmail invitations to give out? Last time I checked, which
        was probably friday or so, I only had 6.
        \_ Huh.  You're right.  I know I had 6 last week, but now I have 50.
2005/2/7-8 [Computer/SW/Languages/Python] UID:36085 Activity:nil
2/7     What's the point of having os.getcwd() and os.path.abspath() in
        python? It seems that abspath() does everything getcwd() does and
        more. Is that not true?
        \_ Yes. Probably abspath calls getcwd and getcwd was implemented first.
           Probably just artifacts left over from language development, like
           deprecated crap in Java.
2005/2/7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:36086 Activity:high
2/7     I thought it was just me, but yes, the Superbowl was that boring
        (ads included) that there is nothing to post on the motd.  At
        least last year the half-time show was exciting.
        \_ So I take it Paul McCartney's pants didn't fall off?
        \_ Yes, it was boring and painful to watch.
        \_ You didn't see ilyas on the motorcycle in the truck commercial?
           \_ Uhm, last I met ilyas he had more than 2 teeth.
        \_ The only thing I know about the Superbowl is when I came into
           the office this morning, and my colleague told me I've won $25
           on the Superbowl pool.  To think that back in the old days, I
           can memorize the entire Cowboys, 49ers and Packers rosters.
                \_ Got yourself a life, did you?  Congrats.
                   \_ I don't know about that.  These days I have 3
                      bosses - work, church and my smart, beautiful
                      and kind hearted girlfriend who is, unfor-
                      tunately, also ambitious career-wise and
                      rather demanding of me, so I still don't have
                      a life.  She is currently back in Taiwan
                      for the holidays, so I get to have a one week
                      break.  I already miss her though.  Sigh ...
                      I even missed the Cal-USC game to go shopping
                      with her and her roommate.  The things you do
                      for love ....
                      \_ Sounds like "life" to me.  What you said is
                         pretty much what I meant.
                      \_ Way to sneak in the fact that you have a gf.
                         \_ Where's bdg when we need him?
                            \_ My guess: married again.
                               \_ I would rather be boiled in oil
                                  with molten lead being poured
                                  on my head than be married.
                      \_ Your "kind hearted" g/f forced you to go shopping
                         with her during the Cal-USC game??? You
                         are so pussy whipped dude.
                         \_ :(  She didn't force me.  I just decided
                            not to mention about it.  My gf is very
                            kind.  I mentioned some dish that I like,
                            and she made it the day before she left
                            for Taiwan.  She's so sweet.  But you
                            are right, I usually listen to my gf.
                            \_ How long have you been going out?
                               You just sound infatuated to me.
                               Which is nice, but it doesn't last
                               \_ 5 months.  I am infatuated.  She's
                                  the love of my life:
                The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field.
                When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy
                went and sold all he had and bought that field.
                Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking
                for fine pearls.  When he found one of great value, he
                went away and sold everything he had and bought it.
                                                - Matthew 13:44-46
                                  \_ Please report back in 5 years.
                                     \_ I will keep my soda brothers
                                        posted every now and then.
                                  \_ You are confusing lust with religion.
                                     That's okay though, lots of people do.
                                     \_ I think you may be projecting
                                        your own lust onto someone
                \_ Where's the right-wing "all women are whores" guy?
                   \_ You don't have to be a right-wing nut to think that
                      all women are whores.  The fundamental relationship
                      reality is that the male is essentially an ATM card,
                      there to be exploited to provide material comfort and
                      security.  The trick for the female is to suffer the
                      least amount of inconvenience and discomfort while
                      extracting the greatest gain from the male.
                      \_ Hey, BDG is back!
                      \_ The thing is my gf actually comes from a rich
                         family, but she is herself very thrifty.  She
                         disapproves when her brothers spend too much
                         money.  I also thinks she spends too much time
                         returning stuff to walmart, meijers, outlet, etc.
                         due to her finding a better price somewhere else.
                         I have to keep reminding her that time is money.
                         She gets a lot of joy from finding really good
                         deals ($14 boots, $4 dress pants, etc.).  However,
                         she is very generous towards others.  She is bringing
                         back 140lbs (2 max weight luggages) worth of gifts
                         for her family and relatives in Taiwan.  I make fun
                         of her and says she looks like a refugee with the
                         2 huge luggages.  She is also generous to friends
                         here in the US.  She cooks food for others when
                         they get sick, etc.  That's why I say she is my
                         dream girl.
        \_ I found the opening ceremony disturbing because of the
           facist overtones. Am I the only one?
           fascist overtones. Am I the only one?
           \_ Yes. Bill Clinton, the men who landed in France on D-Day, and
              the Tuskegee airmen = Fascists? Oh, this is Berkeley.
              \_ You don't know much about the history of fascism, do you?
                 The marching out of war vets, the honoring of the aged,
                 now retired leader, the ranks of troops lined up with
                 precision, the airplanes screaming overhead, the chorus
                 singing songs of national pride in a reverent, almost
                 religious fashion... these are all straight out of fascism's
                 playbook. I am really disappointed in your education that
                 you do not recognize this, but I am not surprised. You
                 probably never get out of a computer lab.
                 \_ Uhm, use a dictionary and look up: patriotism, nationalism,
                    and fascism.  You sound like a happily indoctrinated
                    berkeley liberal.    -!pp
                    \_ You sound like you are ignorant of history. Pick up
                       _The_Rise_And_Fall_Of_The_Third_Reich and read about
                       the use of mass spectacle as a means of political
                       indoctrination. And if you seriously don't think that
                       nationalism and fascism are just differences of a
                       degree then you are more ignorant and dangerous
                       than I realized.
                       nationalism: the doctrine that your national
                       culture and interests are superiour to any other
                       \_ The difference is that I can actually think
                          \_ Maybe you can and maybe you can't. But you
                             haven't demostrated that ability so far.
                             \_ Wow, so because I don't agree with your wack
                                opinion, I'm not showing 'critical thinking'?
                                I may or may not have used good critical
                                thinking, but it's absolutely clear that you
                                have no clue what it is.  It's okay to admit
                                that you're wrong, dude -- it won't make you
                                look any sillier than you already do.
                                \_ Critical thinking is not demonstrated
                                   by hurling one sentence insults at people,
                                   which is all you had done up until this
                                   point. At least now I know you can
                                   construct an entire paragraph, but you
                                   still cannot develop an argument that
                                   consists of anything other than an
                                   Ad hominem attack followed by a logical
                                   fallacy. So no, you have still not
                                   demonstrated any evidence of "critical
                                   thinking." Here's a hint: display the
                                   slightest willingness or inclination to
                                   consider anything other than the spoon fed
                                   mainstream stance you have so far will show
                                   you have taken the first step.
                                   PS Go back and re-read the initial
                                   question that prompted your overemotional
                                   reply and consider that the aforementioned
                                   statement was actually very tentative
                                   and personal and asked a question. Any
                                   belief that it inferred anything else
                                   was a comprehension error on your part.
                                   \_ Uhm, it's the motd.  What is there to get
                                      emotional about?  You're the one that's
                                      posting novels after receiving replies
                                      repudiating your patronizing assertions
                                      to berkeley u/grads.  If the tone of the
                                      conversation is upsetting to you, perhaps
                                      you should look to your own comments
                                      \_ No, it is not upsetting me. I am
                                         just having fun with the discussion.
                                         Hopefully, mr. critical thinking is
                                         \_ Truthfully, Mr Critical Thinking
                                            thinks the whole conversation is
                                            amusing and silly.    -MCT
                       \_ Proof that a little bit of knowledge is a
                          dangerous thing.
                          \_ Proof that ignorance is bliss.
                             \_ Yes, remembering the Tuskegee airmen is
                                going to mobilize our country into a
                                totalitarian state. You are so wise.
                                \_ Is that all you saw in the warm up show?
                                   A memorial to Tuskegee airmen?
                       \_ From the people who brought us 'Dick Cheney = neocon'.
                          Btw, I think if Americans can truly be indoctrinated
                          into something evil with circuses we are truly fucked
                          regardless.  Trying to fight spectacles would be like
                          trying to fight a symptom, not the disease. -- ilyas
                          \_ I...I...think I agree with this.  How can this
                             BEEEEEEEE!  DEAR GOD, HOW?!?
           \_ If your talking about the re-enactment of the
              Declaration signing I would say, not facist, but definitely
              corny and stupid.  The actors were bad, and this is a
              footbal game, not the freakin' inauguration.  I like the
              people today reciting it though, that was cool.
              \_ Did they punt the Bill of Rights, that unruly little brother
                 to the Constitution?
2005/2/7 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:36087 Activity:kinda low
2/7     Does anyone have actual experience using Visual SourceSafe with
        non-exclusive checkouts?  I've heard that it's bad at merging, but
        nothing specific.
        \_ We used to use VSS for years only doing non-exclusive checkouts.
           Works fine for the most part. Occasionally a merge will be
           tricky, but unless two people are editing the same exact
           lines it's not so bad. Eventually we switched to a different
           system for other reasons. -bz
           \_ What did you switch to, and for what reasons? --darin
           \_ I'm most interested in whether VSS barfed at any time, like two
              checkins getting garbled, etc.
        \_ Used it for ~4 years for thesis work with other folks. Never any
           barfage. Sometimes we'd have to clean up a failed merge, but that's
           true of any src control system. It was really solid. I'd recommend
2005/2/7-8 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:36088 Activity:nil
2/7     Trying to get a Windows-based ER tool for PostgreSQL that supports
        both reversed and forward engineering, any suggestions?  Sybase
        sales guys just won't call me back on PowerDesigner.  Is there
        mature modeling tool for PostgreSQL available?  I will try
        QDesigner, which I heard is just a repackaged product of PowerDesigner.
        \_ It's not terribly advanced or mature, but you can do simple
           schema to-and-from graph work with pgsql through Visio.  --dbushong
2005/2/7-8 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:36089 Activity:nil
2/7     Dear graduate students who attend(ed) Berkeley, when you got admitted
        to Berkeley, how much did your department (EECS or not) pay for the
        visit to campus? How much did they pay for travel and how much (if
        any) did they pay for housing you if you're from out of state? I'm
        conducting an informal survey, thanks.
2005/2/7-8 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Compilers, Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:36090 Activity:moderate
        Read the first paper. Not too technical and quite readable. I hope
        it gets accepted into the prestigious WMCS, C&I conference.
        \_ That rules.
        \_ i guess it's nice to know that it's not just me.
           \_ Heh, ditto that. Maybe Phillip should write up a more in-depth
              study on the subject?
        \_ Cute.
        \_ The log graph on page 10 rocks.
        \- Did you actually submit that?
           \_ PROFESSOR Kohler doesn't have a csua account.
2005/2/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic] UID:36091 Activity:nil
2/7     I was reading about how the US budget is ~$2.5 trillion. The debt
        is ~$7.5 trillion. Why not cut budgets 10% across the board and
        pay this back in the next 30 years? 10% cuts are not nice, but
        not crippling either.
        \_ your oversimplification starts with forgetting about interest.
           \_ An oversimplification that would make a libertarian proud!
           \_ Not forgotten, since interest is part of the budget. In fact,
              assuming that the debt gets paid back faster that will mean
              > 10% available in later years. I am assuming that there is
              not a *deficit* so the cuts have to be larger than 10% in
        \_ I can't remember the numbers, but Cameho had a similar argument
           when he ran for CA governor, which went something like this:
           We have a $20B deficit, but only 6 years ago our CA budget was
           $40B and now it is $100B.  We should be able to cut some stuff
           and have a surplus.  I think the simple explanation is that
           there is too much pressure (mostly promises to constituents)
           to spend money, and little political benefits to actually saving
           money. Just like how many people could get out of credit card debt
           just by not buying lots of crap for a while, but they won't do it.
        \_ heck let's tax the Iraqi people while we're at it.
        \_ I can't remember the numbers, but Cameho had a similar argument
           when he ran for CA governor, which went something like this:
           We have a $20B deficit, but only 6 years ago our CA budget was
           $40B and now it is $100B.  We should be able to cut some stuff
           and have a surplus.  I think the simple explanation is that
           there is too much pressure (mostly promises to constituents)
           to spend money, and little political benefits to actually saving
           money. Just like how many people could get out of credit card debt
           just by not buying lots of crap for a while, but they won't do it.
2005/2/7-8 [Uncategorized] UID:36092 Activity:nil
2/7     Does anyone have an archive of the Boondocks strip where he accuses
        someone of being of "terrorist descent" ? TIA.
        \_ look in
2005/2/7-8 [Recreation/Dating, Recreation/Sports] UID:36093 Activity:moderate
2/7     See the full Go Daddy superbowl ad:
        \_ well I thought the girl was OK. Big boobs but otherwise just ok,
           what do you guys think?
           \_ She was hot.  Hotter, though:  tabasco chick, girl #1 in
              the pepsi singing bottle commercial.
               \_ I only find four commercials: Diddy Truck, Ladies Man,
                  iTunes, and Pop the Music. No tabasco girl.
           \_ I'd like to see *your* gf.
           \_ She was hot, with the added advantage that she might be useful
              as a flotation device in emergencies.
              \_ Does silicone float in water?
2005/2/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:36094 Activity:insanely high
2/7     If human beings have gay genes, how about other animals? Is there
        such a thing as say, gay monkeys or gay dogs? Is it documented
        in any reputable scientific journals?
        \_ My gay dog was always humping other male dogs.
        \_ There are hundreds and hundreds of documented species engage in
           gay sex -- In fact, there are way more bizarre forms of sex in
           the animal kingdom than in just humans -- the only kind of sex
           life I know of that has NO counterpart in the animal kingdom is
           voluntary celibacy when willing mates are available (think priests)
           \_ This is also not true, some animals mate for life, and if their
              mate dies, do not take a new mate. -- ilyas
                \_ That's not *exactly* the same thing but I'll concede that
                   my original statement wasn't precise enough.
           \_ What about this?
              23 year old virgin gorilla
                \_ Does it wear comfortable shoes?  -John
        \_ Yes, gay animals exist. -- ilyas
           \_ Gay as a preference or gay out of necessity? It seems
              unlikely there is a 'gay gene' since it would not be passed
              on. 'Bisexual' maybe.
              \_ There are documented cases of exclusively gay animals that
                 have normal mates available.  In particular one zoo has a
                 pair of gay male penguins that seem to have mated for life
                 and ignore females.
        \_ There was a well-documented case I read about gay necrophilic ducks--
           one drake chased another into a window, then fucked it in front of
           some biologist.
              \_ Some animals are gays by 'preference,' and will not mate with
                 animals of opposite sex at all (although I don't like the
                 word 'preference' since it implies this is a behavioral issue,
                 rather than genetic).  I don't know how this gene
                 gets passed -- genetics are complex.  A gene for homosexuality
                 does reduce fitness, but it might be linked with a useful
                 gene, a la sickle cell anemia/malaria immunity, etc. etc.
                   -- ilyas
                 \_ gay is a preference.  what's wrong with gay being a
                    preference?  some men prefer having a dick up their
                    anus, or put their dick in your anus.  You have a
                    problem with that?
                    \_ Nothing, if you consider heterosexuality a preference
                       also.  I don't consider my heterosexuality any more a
                       preference than the fact that I have to urinate, or
                       breathe.  I consider it builtin hardware stuff. -- ilyas
                       \_ And why are you so convinced that being gay is also
                          built-in hardware stuff?
                          \_ Have you read any of this thread?  Your brain =
                             small (sorry psb). -- ilyas
                             \_ I haven't seen anything in this thread that's
                                convincing.  How come so many people in Ancient
                                Greece engage in gay sex.  Are gay genes
                                particularly prevalent among ancient Greeks?
                                \_ Homosexuality in Greece was likely mostly
                                   behavioral.  Some homosexuality is
                                   behavioral.  Some is genetic.  You are
                                   really dense.  The existence of homosexual
                                   animals should put the doubts about that
                                   last part to rest, unless you believe
                                   animals have the capacity to sin (not
                                   supported by the Bible), or that
                                   homosexuality is only sinful in humans, even
                                   if God 'made them' homosexual.  -- ilyas
                                   \_ Greeks were not homosexual. They were
                                      bisexual. Most had wives and kids. They
                                      just thought REAL LOVE was with a man.
                                   \_ you are being silly comparing animals
                                      and humans.  some animals have many
                                      husbands (eg. queen bee), so the queen
                                      bee must be a big sinner.  why do you
                                      want to model your behavior after
                                      animals?  Hey, it's okay for a pig, so
                                      it's okay for me too?
                                      \_ Because if my preference is inborn,
                                         it's not a sin?  Unless you somehow
                                         feel genetic homosexuality is part of
                                         that whole original sin deal... in
                                         which case why are only some people
                                         genetically gay and not others?
                                         God, some motd Christians are dumb
                                         in a scary way.  I am hoping someone
                                         like emarkp will comment on this.
                                           -- ilyas
                                         \_ You are running in circles.
                                            I asked you why do you think being
                                            gay is in born.  You gave me
                                            all these examples in the animal
                                            world, but we are talking about
                                            humans.  Just because some spiders
                                            are cannibals doesn't mean humans
                                            should be cannibals, and no,
                                            Jeffrey Dahmer is not genetically
                                            a cannibal.
                    \_ I didn't choose my heterosexual preference.  It was
                       pretty much built-in as far as I could tell.  Are you
                       telling us you made a conscious decision to feel
                       attracted sexually to your own sex rather than the
                       \_ Yeah but hetero is normal.  If you're going to be
                          all weird and gay, you have to choose it, right?
                       \_ You should spend more time exploring your gay
                          side and gay potential.  You will discover a
                          whole new world, and new sexual yearnings.
                          \_ The motd made me gay!
                             \_ anonymous trolling made me gay!
              \_ There is some scientific evidence that there is a
                 "likes to have sex with men" gene which causes women
                 to have more sex and therefore more children but in
                 the rare case of a double expression in a man causes
                 homosexuality. It is probably even more complex
                 than just that.
                 \_ There is also evidence that homosexuality is a way that
                    overpopulation is controlled, at least in humans.  Younger
                    brothers are more likely to be gay than older brothers,
                    and people in cramped conditions are more likely to be
                    homosexual. -tom
                    \_ Citation or Reference?
                          Marc Breedlove (formerly of Cal) has published tons
                          on the subject.  -tom
                          \_ Tom, are you gay?
                             \_ yer mom doesn't think so.  -tom
                                \_ oh, very mature, what we expect from a
                                   mature 38 year old man. i hope to be like
                                   tom when i grow up           -anon coward
                                   \_ I think tom gave the best possible answer
                 \_ Okay, we have *got* to have all women tested for this
                    one prior to marriage as part of the blood test.
                    \_ We? Fuck you and your government mandated blood tests.
        \_ There was a well-documented case I read about gay necrophilic ducks--
           one drake chased another into a window, then fucked it in front of
           some biologist.
        \_ My dog humps stuffed animals.  I guess the 'Furry' fetish is found
           in nature.
        \_ gay is sick!
        \_ I'm waiting for Christians, Republicans, and Conservatives to say
           something about this topic. emarkp? jrleek?
        \_ Most if not all of the cases of homosexuality arise from
           stress on the population in some way, such as
           overpopulation, environmental changes or the toxins.
           overpopulation, environmental changes or the introduction of
           \_ Hormones in factory-produced chicken.  Chemicals released from
              Tupperware and styrofoam containers to food.  These are less
              widespread in less-developed countries.
        \_ I know of an insect who after mating with a bunch of females will
           change its apperance to look like a female and allow other males to
           'mate' with it so they don't mate with females and only his genes get
           passed on. That is an example of gay sex by necessity I guess.
2018/12/14 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:February:07 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>