2/1     <nevermind, i found: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dishrip
        \_ If you do this, the easiest way I've found is to open the box, yank
           the IDE and power cables from the motherboard side (leave the HD in
           the cage), and plug them into an external drive enclosure.  You'll
           need to make a molex gender changer (unless you can find one
           somewhere) -- remember to match colors.

2/1     Would it be appropriate and/or necessary to give a modest gift and
        a greeting card on the St. Valentines day to someone with whom I have
        been on a date only once before?
        \_ How old is the girl? All of my sister's dumb college friends love
           that shit on Valentine's Day, even if it is just after a first
           date, especially if the guy is "hot". I guess a better question is
           how vapid is the girl?
        \_ Where do you want the relationship to go?  If you plan to pursue
           it, then it would be wise to do so.  That said, I'd avoid greeting
           cards for something sensitive like this.  When I say greeting card
           I mean card from Hallmark or similar monolithic card manufacturer
           with prefab pseudo-heartfelt message already written for you.
           Cards with blank interior are better.
        \_ Kind of depends.  Unless you really got the feeling she/he was
           totally into you on the first date, I'd agree with PP, and also
           avoid Valentine's day altogether (why not just a nice blank card
           with a note something like "I enjoyed the date, I'd like to see
           you again"?)  -John
        \_ I would have to say, no. And I think being predictable and doing
           something special only on special days, is not all that special
        \_ What they all said, but with this addendum. Consider going to a
           place that says sells interesting non-Hallmark cards. If you see
           something that stands out, buy it, inscribe it with just your name
           and that you thought of her or some such, and give it to her for the
           next date - whether that is Valentine's Day or not. Every woman I've
           known has appreciated interesting cards picked out for them.
            -- ulysses
           \_ As a guy, I like to receive cards, read them, and then throw
              them away. Yes, Seinfeld addressed this. Women seem to be
              horrified when they find out. WTF do they keep these cards?!
                \_ I keep every card sent to me but I'm a packrat.
        \_ How bout just a simple, single flower?
           \_ I suggest a limp yellow rose!
           \_ Danger, danger Will Robinson.  As the NP suggests, a dozen roses
              is too strong.  The problem is that with a single flower you
              risk looking cheap (and thus, insincere).  If you're going to
              give a single flower, take care to present in a way that shows
              you put some time, thought and effort into it.
        \_ If you've only had one date, obviously you shouldn't go overboard.
           Some PPs seem to be suggesting you just send a card.  While *some*
           women would prefer you don't make a big deal out of Valentine's
           Day, they probably wouldn't be put off by a heartfelt gesture.  On
           the other hand, I'm guessing the other 95% of women DO want to see
           you put in some sort of effort.  She may say she doesn't want
           anything and be secretly dissapointed when you do nothing.  So play
           it safe and do something to show you care.  This early in the
           relationship, a dozen roses would be coming on too strong, but a
           sincere card you wrote and a single red rose would be excellent.

2/1     Who is the best dressed sodan?
        \_ Individual instance, or weighted daily average?
        \_ John, but he is European. -ausman
           \_ Thanks :) But Jim, I thought you knew me at Cal... -John

2/1     My special PS/2 keyboard is connected to PS2-to-USB conv which is then
        connected to a Mac. It is quite sluggish and I'm guessing it is due
        to the the USB to kbd driver. What can I do to speed it up? Can I
        change the priority of the driver or process, and what is it? -Macless
        \_ I've never found a PS/2 to USB adapter for a Mac that works
           reliably over time. Tried a billion. YMMV.
           \_ I've had good luck with Raritan converters.
           \_ Did you try Raritan?

2/2     I received an email ostensibly from http://paypal.com, saying that my account
        has been flagged and asked me to verify my info at 210.221.194.*
        I find it very suspicious and I am not sure if I really had a paypal
        register under that email addr?  Is this real or just phishing?
        How could I tell in general?
        \_ It's a scam. I've had this happen to me for various banks to which
           I do not hold an account to. For example, if it was CitiBank they
           would ask you to go to a site called <DEAD>citibanksecurity.com<DEAD> or
           something like that where they would ask you to enter your
           username, password, and bank account number. But if you try to
           resolve citibanksecurity, or whatever fictitious name they use,
           it would resolve to something else.
        \_ Seconded that it's a scam.  If you want to assure yourself, look at
           the HTML source of the email.  Look at the actual link target.  If
           it goes to a dotted-decimal IP, HTML-secape-code address,
           <DEAD>paypal.com.something-else.com<DEAD>, <DEAD>paypal-something-else.com<DEAD>, or
           http://paypal.com@something-else.com you know it's bogus.  If you have to
           assuage your fears that it might be legit, delete the email and
           manually type in http://www.paypal.com and log in to your account like
           normal.  If they actually have a message for you you should see it
           then.  But it's definitely a scam.
        \_ Scam.  Paypal promises that they will never send you an email
           with a link in it.  No other financial institution should do
           this either.
           \_ Another useful tip specific to paypal is that the real paypal
              mail will always address you by your name, and never as "Dear
              Paypal User."

2/2     What are the differences and pros/cons of POP3 vs. IMAP?  I'm asking
        both on the admin side and for the end-user.
        \_ Hm the nuker strikes again.  IMAP is good because it lets you see
           mails from several clients (including via CLI and web mail.)  If
           you're going to do imap, I recommend Dovecot/imaps + Postfix with
           TLS and SMTP AUTH.  I also run an openwebmail server over SSL, the
           whole combo works a charm.  -John
        \_ The most irritating aspect of POP3 is when you are migrating
           someone to another computer, and their new workstation downloads
           5,000 duplicate e-mails that weren't deleted from the mail server
           yet -- and each duplicate e-mail is re-filtered into separate
           folders in their e-mail client.
        \_ IMAP uses more disk space on the server, and pop is a pain for
           the end-user-side if they have more than one computer. POP
           is good if the user has one computer. overall IMAP is nice.
           \_ How much more?  One file per message vs. one file per user, or
              multiple copies of each message?  Are we talking 5% or 200%?
              \_ The number of messages per file varies depending on the
                 implementation, but with IMAP, mail stays on the server,
                 so that is a whole lot more disk space if you user keeps
                 a lot of mail, and the storage grows over time. I don't
                 think any sane email system would keep "multiple copies
                 of each message".
                 http://www.google.com/search?q=pop+versus+imap
                 \_ Disk size doubles every 12 (or is it 18 month).  Not using
                    IMAP because (shock and horror) users will store mail on
                    the server (kind of the point, now isn't it) is a) insane
                    and b) means you need don't understand exponentials and
                    should probably get out of this computery business...
        \_ IMAP is great if you have mail clients that do reasonable caching
           of messages after downloading them.  It also allows you to run
           a concurrent webmail service without problems.  I recommend trying
           dovecot imaps.  -John
        \_ The really sad thing is that IMAP as a protocol is a superset of
           POP3.  You can make IMAP act just like POP3 if you want.  In
           practice, people seem to write IMAP clients to tend to leave mail
           on the server and POP3 to tend to download it all every time.
           \_ POP3 is fucking deprecated.  Don't use it anymore.  The main
              (only?) benefit of POP3 is that it allows lazy fucking admins to
              do less set up and (short term) maintenance.  The main problem
              with IMAP is that because lazy fucking admins kept using POP3
              the immature, poor IMAP servers and clients haven't died the
              painful death at the hands of the market they deserve.  If
              you're going to run an open-source IMAP server, run Cyrus.
              Courier and UW-IMAP both suck hard if you throw a large number
              of users or a handful of users with large mailboxes at them.  If
              you want a good tool to extract messages from the clutches of
              your existing mailserver and transfer them via imap commands to
              your shiny new mailserver, dig up the uw-mailutils utility(ies?)
              which are part of the UW-IMAP package or available alone in
              debian (apt-get install uw-mailutils).

2/2     The top entry on Iraq the Model tells some interesting stories
        from the elections
        http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com
        \_ Great link -- thanks for sharing it.          -mice
        \_ shucks I thought I was going to see Iraq models in swim suits
           \-If I think "We're from the Mujahideen and we're not going to
             hurt you" is the funniest thing I have read in weeks, does
             that make be a bad person?

2/2     What we need is a universal docking station on cars for
        cellphones.  You get into your car and put the cellphone on
        the dock, then all calls will be put on the speaker and you
        talk through the in-car mic. What ya think? Any progress being
        made in this area? It can even be made automatic...
        \_ As for the data connection, the standard is the Bluetooth headset
           protocol.  Good luck getting a standard for a physical holder.  Cell
           phones have way too much variability in size/shape for that to be
           practical.
           \_ not to mention the business reasons why this is doomed.  Vendors
              make a fortune selling add-ons for their particular brands of
              phone.  They want you to buy a new set every time you get a new
              phone too.   Good luck getting them to give up that business to
              follow some standard.
              \_ But eventually all these will settle down to a
                 standard.  Do you still remember the time each cell
                 phone has its own proprietary headphone connector?
                 Once we have laws banning cellphone use in cars, you
                 bet some company will come up with something.
                 \_ They still have proprietary connectors.  I can see everyone
                    supporting bluetooth, but when each phone comes with a
                    charger, there's not much incentive for the manufacturer to
                    standardize on a charger interface.  Add to that the fact
                    that size and styling are competitive differentiators and
                    so manufactureres have a lot to lose by standardizing on
                    one physical shape for a dock.  I think the best you can
                    do would be a velcro strap on dashboards.
                    \_ The point is not the dock or the charging interface, it's
                       the ability to automatically route the call to the 'car',
                       however its done, wirelessly or something, doesn't matter.
                       and similarily the ability to route calls to land lines
                       when you are home automatically. You bet there will be a
                       surge of interest when all the latest data on cellphone
                       brain cancer pops up in a few years.
                       \_ A lot of phones already have something like this,
                          it's called a *speakerphone*.  I set my cell phone
                          in a cupholder, and if I get a call I can reach down
                          and push the speakerphone button, then be hands-free
                          for the conversation.

2/2     In spite of what libertarian commentators like to claim,
        Europe is outperformaing the US economically by almost
        any measure:
        http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17726
        \_ What do you define as "Europe"?  France, Germany, Poland, the UK,
           Luxembourg and Greece are about as heterogenous economically as it
           gets.  That aside, there is a raft of problems (and advantages) not
           present in the US.  The key word you're looking for is "different."
           As for the libertarians, there are some areas where "European"
           bureaucracy is oppressive to business compared to the US, and
           others where companies have a very free hand.  YMMV.  -John
        \_ Germany has highest unemployment since WW II. I do not envy
           Europeans. Only the massive US debt is an issue for Americans.
           If that can be tackled then the EU has no hope at all. If it
           can't then it still might have no hope.
           \_ The Europeans are now more productive per hour than the
              Americans. They used to be less, much less productive.
              How is this trend in our favor again?
              \_ They still work fewer hours and fewer of them work. The
                 real threat now is China, not the EU.
                 \_ I believe OP's contention is not about the EU as threat but
                    rather as a possibly superior economic model.
                    \_ "Economic threat"
                    \_ Well OP makes the stupid mistake of taking "EU" and not
                       "aspects of certain EU countries".  -John
           \_ http://www.thinkandask.com/news/jobs.html
              What are the comparative employment rates?
              \_ http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/15/32504422.pdf
        \_ GDP growth.  http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/0/17/19230458.xls
           country:2002q4:2003q1:2003q2:2003q3:2003q4:2004q1:2004q2:2004q3
           US:0.2:0.5:1.0:1.8:1.0:1.1:0.8:1.0
           France:-0.2:0.2:-0.5:1.0:0.6:0.6:0.6:0.0
           Germany:0.0:-0.4:-0.2:0.3:0.3:0.4:0.4:0.1
           \_ What is comparable GDP/person? We all know that the
              population growth rate is higher in the US. That does
              not really help me as an individual worker. Over the
              last decade, twenty years, thirty years and fourty
              years, GDP growth per person has been comparable.
              \_ Not growth, but only Norway has a higher GDP per capita than
                 the US. http://csua.org/u/ay0
        \_ The statement is based on data from csls.ca .  (BTW, they misspelled
           the title of the csls paper.  It should be "Output per Hour" instead
           of "Output per House".)  Given the higher relative cost of labor
           in Europe, it is completely reasonable that Europeans are more
           productive per hour.  (Similarly, Europe's relatively rare farm-
           land are more productive than the US.)  The scarcity and the cost
           of the resource guarantees the employer (and the farmer) invest
           more in productivity.  In fact, if you look at general labor
           productivity (not per hour), The US has been outperforming EU
           by large strides in the last couple decades.
           by large strides in the last couple decades, most of that based on
           the large number of hours worked by US employees.
           http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/5/47/2483871.xls
           It is perhaps more accurate to say that Europe has been outperforming
           the US economically in *one* measure that is not significant at all.
           \_ No, you either did not read or did not fully understand
              the URL provided. In GDP/person, the EU has grown faster than
              the US in the last 15 years. In productivity per hour worked,
              the EU has gone from behind the US to leading the US. In
              ROI, the EU has been catching up. In total public debt, the
              EU has caught up. In short, every significant comparable economic
              measurable, the US has gone from a large lead to a small lead
              and in some cases no lead at all.
              and in some cases to no lead at all.
              \_ Hmmm, you are right.  Europe should brace for the imminent
                 brain drain from the United Stated as more and more
                 professionals realize they are better off working for the new
                 winning team. -- ilyas
                 \_ My French coworkers here are all rather disparaging of
                    the countrymen they've left behind in France.  Perhaps it's
                    an Ecole Polytechnique thing.
                    \_ My French coworkers here are all very happy to be
                       away from France. My French acquaintances still in
                       France are feverishly trying to get the hell out.
                       \_ That's sort of what I was trying to get at.  If EU
                          economic model is so superior, why are so many
                          european professionals and scientists so desperate
                          to get out of there?  -- ilyas
                          \_ Ummm.. because they're stupid?
                          \_ Perhaps you hang out with a desperate and
                             unhappy crowd. Do you have any evidence that
                             is not anecdotal that this is true?
                             \_ Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence that
                                points the other way?  Or even anecdotal
                                evidence?  All I see is a lot of foreign
                                professionals settling here to work, and
                                foreign scientists getting tenure here.
                                I don't see much traffic the other way.
                                Except John, but (a) he is a commie mutant
                                traitor and (b) .ch isn't even a part of
                                Europe, they are like their own planet.
                                  -- ilyas
                                \_ Trust the compter.  The computer is your
                                   friend.
                                \_ Yes, read The Economist.
                                   \_ On a slightly unrelated topic, I read
                                      an article in the Economist on
                                      'sister Hillary,' where the author
                                      was gushing about Hillary's 'maturity
                                      and ambition' as a politician, because
                                      she decided to pay lip service to the
                                      faith vote.  I found that an interesting
                                      comment -- she comes across as a lying,
                                      insincere scumbag to me when she does
                                      stuff like that.  Kind of like her
                                      husband.  Of course, being the biggest
                                      scumbag may be what maturity and
                                      ambition means in politics. -- ilyas
                             \_ Take a look at the enrollment figures of
                                US grad schools.
                                \_ I have, and the numbers are down.
                                   \_ 'The numbers are down' because less
                                                                     \_ fewer
                                      people are being let in (due to
                                      procedural post 9/11 issues), not
                                      because less people want to come here.
                                      No cigar for you.
                                      \_ Bullshit.  The "procedural 9/11
                                         issues" are that the student visa
                                         system is completely fucking broken.
                                         I know grad students who are afraid
                                         to even go to canada for a conference
                                         because even though all their visa
                                         stuff is ok, there's some random
                                         chance that they'll get stuck in canada
                                         for so long they have to go back to
                                         their home country.  For people from
                                         countries where they're desperate,
                                         they try anyway, and the acceptances
                                         are down, but for countries like
                                         germany you better believe people
                                         are turning down US positions becuase
                                         they don't want to put up with the
                                         moronic bullshit.  And applications
                                         to Canadian schools are up.  Our
                                         broken-ass visa system isn't just
                                         letting terrorists in, it's seriously
                                         undermining American science. I'm not
                                         pp, and I'm not disagreeing with you
                                         about professionals in general, just
                                         about students and post-docs in the
                                         sciences.
                                   \_ You do understand that does not mean
                                      that european professionals are not
                                      leaving in an absolute sense.  Also,
                                      rather unfortunately, I don't know of
                                      any foreign student statistics that
                                      breakdown based on the quality of the
                                      local school (is the student attending
                                      Joe's Foreign Language Institute of
                                      Berkeley or UCB?).  I would not lament
                                      the loss of the Joe's Foreign Language
                                      Institute of Berkeley population.
                                      \_ Albert H. Teich, director of
                                         science and public policy at
                                         the American Association for
                                         the Advancement of Science,
                                         which signed the statement,
                                         wrote that not improving the
                                         visa situation "will do
                                         irreparable harm to
                                         scientific progress as well
                                         as U.S. competitiveness."
                                         Also:
                                         "A survey of major graduate
                                         institutions, conducted by
                                         the Council of Graduate
                                         Schools, found a 6-percent
                                         decline in new foreign
                                         enrollments this fall, the
                                         third year in a row with a
                                         substantial drop."   -tom
              \_ Mea culpa.  I should have made it clearer.  When I said
                 "general labor productivity (not per hour)", I was referring
                 to Annex Table 12 "Labour productivity in the business
                 sector", which specifically is *not* about productivity per
                 hour.  In fact, I specifically allowed that the producitivity
                 per hour is lower in the US ("it is completely reasonable...").
                 However, the labor productivity per capita has been growing
                 much faster in the US, likely because of the greater number
                 of hours worked by US workers.  Similarly, GDP per hour
                 worked is higher in many other nations, but US is almost
                 tops in GDP per capita.
                 \_ Granted. But how much longer will this continue,
                    with current trends?
                    \_ Well, GDP and productivity growth in the US has been
                       faster in the US for most of the last couple of decades.
                       And it's really not that we've been working *more*
                       hours, it's more that other countries have been
                       working *fewer* hours.  The number of hours worked
                       has pretty much stayed unchanged in the US since 1980,
                       but has been dropping elsewhere.
                \_ Thanks for this interesting info. This is the sort of
                   thing I was looking for. (why is this deleted? is being
                   polite a censorable offence on the motd now??) -OP

2/2     is it possible for terrorist to set up fake websites to
        capture financial info, hijack the DNS servers and make
        them point to their fake websites?
        \_ "hijack the DNS servers" is the key point here. Not if
           the sites are designed properly.

2/2     So I deleted the entire interesting Europe vs USA growth rate
        economics discussion because I am a cranky, pissy libertarian
        who didn't like where the facts were leading me, right?
        \_ Actually, I assumed you were a pissy authoritarian dickhead that
           insists on dictating which threads are 'acceptable' by your
           closed-minded narrow standards.
        \_ AFAIK, the facts were leading away from the initial conclusion
           and towards that of cranky, pissy libertarians.
           \_ Yes, but that assumes the dickhead actually *read* and
              *understood* any of the thread before coming to his myopic
              conclusion.

2/2     Why don't the people who are against social security mention that
        women live longer then men, and that men are getting screwed out of
        social security benefits?  It's even possible (and common!) for women
        who have never worked to collect social security based on their
        dead husband's income!  Where's the sanity in that?
        \_ Because some people believe in society.  Some of those people who
           believe in society think government is best suited to help, and
           some think churches, communities, etc are best suited.  Someone
           who believes neither, who doesn't believe in society or helping
           his fellow man is immoral.
           \_ Uhm, no. That might be the way leftist liberals think, but
              that's not the reason why women collect 50% on their husband's
              income. The reason is simple, traditionally women were not
              in the work force but were expected to stay home and raise
              the kids. So in essence although they didn't have a paying
              job they still did work. Since the male was traditionally
              the primary breadwinner of the family, it was viewed that
              widows should be able to collect on pensions of the the husband.
              In reality, such an arrangement logical, since by allowing
              widows to receive their husband's SSI we compensate the widow
              for their years of work being a house wife.
              \_ So you prefer that women enter the work force and leave
                 their children to be raised by baby sitters?  You sound
                 like the leftist liberal.
                 \_ No, I like men who abandon their children and don't
                    pay child support (Go Newt!!)
        \_ Against Social Security?  I *love* Social Security.  I love it
           so much that I want to make sure I get my cut of it when I'm
           eligible.

2/2     I have a 7 year old PC (with display) that I'd like to get rid of. Can
        I just dump it outside of my house and expect it to be picked up
        by the Berkeley garbage service?
        \_ http://www.otxwest.org
        \_ No, it is hazardous waste. Take it here: http://www.accrc.org

2/2     (Re-post) Are any of you full-time grad students on fellowship at
        UC Berkeley? If so, I am curious how you are interpreting the info on
        your 1099-T. TurboTax is useless here. -- ulysses
        \_ I'm in grad school and got a 1098-T.  I wonder what the difference
           is.
        \_ Give your copy to me if its useless to you. :)
        \_ I'm not sure what to do with my 1099-T here either.  It doesn't seem
           right to not even input it into the program, or return a copy of it,
           but not really sure.  What's even more sad though is that I asked a
           few people at the SD office where TurboTax is made (I'm a former
           employee of Intuit), and they had no clue what to do with it either.
           Worthless bastards.  -phale

2/2     Mardi Gras parade in Berkeley on FAT TUESDAY, Feb. 8
        http://www.berkeleymardigras.org

2/2     Wow, point out a little right wing hypocracy regarding family
        values and all my threads get nuked!  Woot!
        \_ hypocrisy, maybe?
        \_ jwang is the nuking mother fucker! DIE JWANG!!! One more anti-right
           wing, one more nuke of my pro conservative post, the entire motd goes.
           Jwang, I'm watching you.
           wing, one more nuke of my pro conservative post, the entire motd
           goes.  Jwang, I'm watching you.
           \_ Oh look!  A _death_ threat on the motd!  Quick, to the Paolo
              cave!  We must root out this injustice (heh) so all CSUA
              members can feel safe! -- ilyas
              \_ Jeez, ilyas, motd seems to have made you bitter.  Your
                 tit-for-tat playbook must be huge.
                 \_ It's the Old Testament way, baybee.  Paolo's antics and
                    selective enforcement in general are a pet peeve of mine
                    (can you tell?). -- ilyas
                    \_ yes we know you're obsessed with paolo/pst/pollux.
                       have you actually met him in person? he's actually a
                       very nice guy. you on the other hand ...
                       \_ Heh.  Me and Paolo know each other pretty well.
                          In fact, I bet I talked to him more recently than
                          you (i.e. today).  On the other hand, have you ever
                          met me?  You get the 'flawed insinuation of the day'
                          award.  What does meeting a person have to do with
                          anything?  What does coming across as a 'nice guy'
                          have to do with anything?  -- ilyas
              \_ A death threat?!!? By "death", you mean deleting the motd?
                 Are you being dense on purpose? -!pp
                 \_ "die jwang". who's being dense? -!ilyas
                    \_ I don't think that can rationally be considered a
                       death threat.  *shrug*
           \_ Grow the fuck up.  And learn to post to motd correctly.
              \_ You know what people do when they really grow up?
                 They stop posting to the motd.
                 \_ Oh ouch.  That hits a little close to home, doesn't it?
                 \_ That's not true.  I grew up and I still post to the motd.
           \_ Hey, when making threats like this, sign your name.  And don't be
              so sure you know who's doing what on the motd.  Maybe someone
              with root can determine who /you/ are so /you/ can be properly
              squished. -emarkp
                \_ uh, the current root no longer cares about motd. It is no
                   longer publicized to new CSUA members.
                   longer publicized to new CSUA members. It is just a matter
                   of time before all the old motd farts grow up, get married,
                   buy a house, and raise kids. Before you even know it
                   no one is posting to motd. I estimate 5-10 years.
                   \_ Sorry, son -- I know alot of sodans that regularly post
                      to motd that have 'grown up', gotten married, bought a
                      house, and have more than 1 kid.  You don't know as much
                      as you think you do about motd demographics.
                      \_ Indeed, I'm 31, have been married 9 years, own a house
                         and have 2 children. -emarkp
                         \_ wow. So tell me, would you want your kids to motd?
                            \_ wow.  can you possibly have less clue?
                            \_ Since the older one is just reading, I think the
                               question is moot. -emarkp
                               \_ We could have a Katie vs Sujin flamewar!
                                  -jrleek
                         \_ I didn't know anyone over 30 other than tom read
                            motd. I'd figure that when you hit your late 30s
                            you'd get a gf, wife, or a life already. Oh well,
                            I hope I'll stop some day.  -pathetic mid 20 guy
        \_ Actually, does anyone know why jwang nukes but never writes?
           \_ I'd guess because not enough people care whether he has anything
              to say.
              \_ When has this ever stopped anyone? -gm
           \_ Does anyone know why people keep anonymously accusing jwang and
              ilyas of nuking?  I crack up when I nuke a thread and someone
              else gets blamed by an anonymous yahoo.  -emarkp
              \_ So is your rule something like "WWJN"?
              \_ I don't know anything about jwang, but do a search through
                 the archives for "nuke" and "ilyas" and the reason people
                 gett pissed at him will become obvious.  And for the hundredth
                 time: fuck you for nuking threads.
                 \_ You can tack me on to that last sentiment, though I would
                    say simply "please stop doing it". -- ulysses

2/2     http://www.saveourlicense.com
        Ballot petitions due Feb 11, 2005

2/2     Conservatism is winning, hoooray!!! Down with immoral people.
        http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/02/nude.juice.bar.ap/index.html

2/2     Dear motd physicists, suppose I have a) 5 100W light bulbs and b) 500W
        heater. Suppose put them in 2 different thermal tight boxes, each with
        a liter of water. Will both liter of water have the exact same
        temperature after time t?
        \_ No, because 5 light bulbs have a different heat capacity than a
           500W heater.  If they were the same, then yes, the water would have
           the same temperature.  There are of course special cases where this
           would be different, but 5x100W light bulbs create just as much heat
           as a 500W heater.
           \_ You just contradicted yourself.
              \_ He didn't really. He said they create just as much heat, but
                 have different heat capacities. Although I'm curious about the
                 special cases she mentions.
                 \_ I was thinking stuff like differential evaporation rates
                    and transient higher electrical loads.
        \_ One thing to note is that by saying a light bulb is X wats, it does
           not mean that it puts out X watts of heat; it just means it draws
           X watts of energy. What is does with those X watts depends on
           the type of bulb and other details like that.
           \_ It can basically only put off various forms of electromagnetic
              energy and sound.  If it's placed in a perfect calorimeter
              (OP's 'thermal tight box') then all the energy it consumes will
              be turned into heat.
        \_ You're probably limited by the conductive heat transfer at the
           air-water interface.  Probably the only difference between the two
           rigs is how much energy goes into visible vs. infrared, and that
           probably won't matter as the water won't likely heat up very much.
           \-to spell out the first reply:
             the simple way to thinks of this is in terms of the Partition Of
             Energy. the energy in the system will be divided between the
             water and the heating apparatus. at T0, with energy E0 = Ew0 +
             Eh0 (or Eb0) [total energy = energy of water + energy of bulb/
             heater]. at T1, E1 = E0+dE = Ew1 + Eh1 (Eb1). Since we are
             assuming dE is the same in both, Ew1 is identical iff the Eh1
             and Eb1 are the same ... which is dictated by the heat capacity.
             [and the heat capacity of the water is how you go from the
             Ew to the water temp]. Note: in some cases the parition of
             energy is more complicated and you have to taken into
             consideration entropy factors. Like say you mix metal A and B
             into an alloy ... as the compositoon goes from 100% A to 100% B,
             the melting temp of AB doesnt go in a stright line from meltA
             to meltB.
             \- oh here is another one: you take a spring and spend energy E
                to compress it. then you put it in an acid bath, where does
                the energy go, if it dissolves from the end.
                \_ In a compressed spring, the energy is stored in the bonds
                   between atoms.  As it dissolves, these bonds get broken one
                   by one, and when that happens, the 2 atoms whoose bond was
                   dissolved convert that bond energy into heat.  So a
                   dissolved compressed spring will be hotter than a dissolved
                   relaxed spring.