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| 2005/1/24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:35866 Activity:nil |
1/23 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1324513/posts |
| 2005/1/24 [Uncategorized] UID:35867 Activity:high |
1/23 ilyas, do you believe in meritocracy?
\_ Are you asking whether he believes on exists, or whether
he likes them?
\_ I think Ilyas believes in philosopher kings.
\_ Nah. -- ilyas
\_ I believe in mediocrity! -troll |
| 2005/1/24 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:35868 Activity:kinda low |
1/23 Recommendation for free software that will take DVD as input and
generate an mpeg,avi,wmv,etc file from it. I'm not looking for
fancy stuff. I really just want something that is like "ripping
DVDs for dummies" as I'm not a pc hacker guy. Is there such a free
tool? If not, what for-profit sw is out there to do this. I need
something that works, nothing fancy. Thanks.
\_ PIRATE! PIRATE! Somebody call the MPAA!
\_ DVD Decrypter will rip it to your HD. DVD Shrink will fit it
onto one DVD+R. Both are excellent freeware programs. |
| 2005/1/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Politics/Domestic/HateGroups] UID:35869 Activity:very high |
1/23 Amusing TNR aticle on far-far-lefties
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=express&s=frank012105
qwertyuil/dsfghjk
\_ Frothing lefties is more like it. Gyah. Why can't we liberals as
a whole just jettison these tinfoil hatters once and for all? Is
it because they have all of the phone bank lists? Gyah!
\_ What makes you think that we embrace them? I guess they do
do all the hard work like organizing the big anti-war
protests....
\_ I read a fascinating article that pointed out that the
far-left, frothing radicals are the only ones who have the
tenacity to hunt down the permits, wrangle over the port-a-
potties, and galvanize people to show up, which is a pity
since they're the same people who scare Ma&Pa Voter into
voting for the conservatives.
\_ ...uh, right. Yet somehow ma and pa voter don't draw the
connection between the klan rallies and anti-abortion
terrorism on the right and mainstream conservatism.
\_ Uh, right. What party has the only sitting Senator that
was a Klan member?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Byrd
\_ Byrd joined up in a region where joining the Klan
was like joining the Lions Club, and he has since
apologized for it and denounced the organization.
If you're going to blame Byrd for something he
recanted, let's arrest Bush for cocaine possession.
\_ Yeah, right. Were any Repubs former Klansmen the
left wouldn't shut up about it. The explanation
above would be considered an unacceptable excuse.
\_ Read up on Strom Thurmond and the Southern
Manifesto, please. -John
Manifesto, please. That said, it is an
unacceptable excuse, but hey, land of second
chances and all that, eh? -John
\_ And Strom Thurmond is what? That's right.
He's dead.
Now why would that be? Liberals shouldn't blame themselves
for rightwing media.
\_ Very true! Nor should they confuse passionate opposition
with reasonable opposition.
\_ Plenty of people connected the dots between the
Republican Party and clinic bombings. It is one of
the reasons the Republicans did poorly in the early
90s and all those federal laws protecting abortion
were passed. The Religious Right realized the folly
of a minority trying to use force to convince a
majority in America, and went back to saner tactics. |
| 2005/1/24-25 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:35870 Activity:high |
\1/24 On 21264, you have 80 physical registers of which 31 are visible.
However, on P4's you have 128 physical registers, of which
8 of them are visible at one time. The rest are used for
speculative storage and renaming (to prevent WAW and WAR hazards).
So, why 128 physical registers when only 8 are exposed (I presume
they're only ax-dx, and eax-edx)? Isn't that a lot?
\_ It's been a while since I've taken 152 but I believe this has
something to do with register renaming. Many CPUs have extremely
deep and wide execution pipelines allowing for a massive amount
of in-flight instructions. You cannot have 40 instructions in-
flight, for example, with only 8 registers. When an instruction
is issued, it is placed in a reservation station. Its regsiter
specifier is renamed to point to other reservation stations if
an instruction is already in-flight. When that in-flight
instruction is completed, the reservation station for the
pending instruction will source the write value of the instr
that it was dependent on. Since there can be more reservation
stations that user accessible registers, this is how we get
the 80 physical vs 31 visible registers.
\_ Which semester did you take 152? I didn't learn these in Sp93.
\_ Perhaps buy a more recent Comp Arch book (the H&P version,
not the P&H one). It's covered in the section on Tomasulo's
algorithm. This is more graduate level stuff so it's not
surprising that some profs don't cover it in 152.
\_ I think by 8 exposed registers they mean eax-edx, esi, edi, esp,
ebp.
\_ The P4 is a CISC machine and does a lot for one instruction. Hence
the work done per instruction is higher, and hence more registers
are necessary. When I learned RISC programming in CS60B it was
noted that 32 registers were available, but by convention most were
reserved--so you only really had 8-12 registers you could really
work with. Also, Intel has made the L0 cache very fast so that
there isn't much of a hit moving data from cache to register.
\_ I respectfully disagree with the post above. CISC requires
FEWER registers than RISC because not as many intermediate regs
need to be kept around, and if L0 was so fast there's not
"much of a hit" then FEWER registers would be required. Different
codes require very different number of registers; what all the
physical registers are used for in x86 are supporting massive
out-of-order execution, multiple simultaneous threads, loop
unrolling, etc. ... the existence proof is that Intel would not
have put them there unless they helped performance.
\_ Intel machines may be technically CISC, but they're more RISCy
than stated above. Most compilers write code that's very RISC-
like. However, since backward compatibility at every step is
key, the Intel line has been straightjacketed into the eight-
register world. Fortunately (or unfortunately if you hate the
Pentium architecture), Intel (and AMD) easily finds ways around
that. After 30 years shackled to the same base instructions
I'm not quite sure why Intel doesn't build a second assembly
language to fully leverage the architecture - having a special
mode for this - but I guess it would be more trouble than it's
worth to do so.
\_ They did try, and it went over like the Hindenberg (c.f.
IA-64)
\_ IA-64 sunk for other reasons. You don't need an
expensive 64-bit processor without a market in order to
allow some programs to execute the microcode (or some
one-to-one translation thereof) directly. |
| 2005/1/24 [Politics/Domestic] UID:35871 Activity:nil |
1/24 So, ilyas, what is the libertarian solution to problems like this?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/09/sms_spam_trojan
\_ motd troll tax. -- ilyas
\_ So, in other words, you don't have a solution, right?
\_ I am no longer interested in having serious discussions on
the motd. If you really want to learn about libertarianism
take a poly sci. class, read some books, even email me.
Don't troll the motd though. -- ilyas
\_ I'll answer for him: the solution is a little chat session
with a baseball bat, without such piddly-squat legal obstructions
as aggravated assault laws. -John
\_ Libertarianism: detente thuggery.
\_ I've maintained for years that the only effective deterrent for
spam is a guy named Guido with a baseball bat. |
| 2005/1/24 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:35872 Activity:nil |
1/24 A military personnel must support his/her supreme commander, ie. the
current president. Doesn't it conflict with his/her freedom to vote
for a challenging candidate during an election?
\_ brain classification: small.
\_ Premise is incorrect. Reevaluate and resubmit.
\_ Supporting your commander-in-chief has nothing to do with voting for
the next one (even though that could be the same person). |
| 2005/1/24 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:35873 Activity:nil |
1/24 PROOF THAT DUMOCRAPS ARE VIOLENT!!!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1271455/posts
\_ The motd has gotten so goddamn stale and boring in the last few
days that I'm actually glad to see freeper troll back. Keep
up the good work!
\_ It's more like dirty than violent.
\_ Proof that the American Justice system still works:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1327414/posts |
| 2005/1/24-26 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:35874 Activity:low |
1/24 How do I find out the maximum allowable process size on lesbians?
\_ malloc
\_ uh, how about finding out without getting squished?
\_ Run "limit".
[ deleting bitch ]
\_ limit is a csh thing.
\_ isn't "ulimit" the bash equivalent? |
| 2005/1/24-25 [Computer/Networking] UID:35875 Activity:moderate |
1/24 http://csua.org/u/at8 (zdnet.com) "WEP, as you probably already know, is an encryption scheme that can basically be broken by anyone smart enough to install Linux on a laptop." Okay, so we all know WEP < WPA < WPA2, but is hacking WEP as easy as implied above? The only way I see WEP having this big a problem is if there is a freeware program which obtains WEP keys for you. \_ http://airsnort.shmoo.com \_ thanks, I guess it is that easy, if you are constantly sniffing (e.g., your neighbor's wireless) \_ Well, it is not as easy as the software writer wants you to think. I tried to hack my *own* WEP key and could not. \_ From what I understand from the FAQ, you need six months of browsing the net when you're home at night to sniff enough packets to be able to get the WEP key for your own wireless AP/router. \_ See below. This is the trivial part--you can sniff a 'join' (which is cleartext) and use this to send fake disconnects. Most wifi drivers will attempt to reconnect to their last peered AP--washrinserepeat and you can collect enough traffic v. quickly. Oh, and WPA is also vulnerable: http://www.tinypeap.com/page8.html -John \_ Hacking WEP is not "simple". The principle behind it is simple, and ways to collect enough data to brute-force a key (i.e. faking joins/drops over the unencrypted carrier channel) are simple. Gathering enough traffic can take some time, and then you still have to brute force the key. 802.11b has some structural limitations anyway, and the main issue with WEP is its name, as it is no way equivalent to a wire (which is equally easy to break into if you know what you're doing) in terms of being a private medium. There are, however, enough tools out there to make it feasible for the average kiddie. For a very well designed and documented selection of tools, have a look at auditor at http://www.remote-exploit.org . -John |
| 2005/1/24 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:35876 Activity:low |
1/24 Stupid post censored by non-liberal.
\_ The children of Democratic chiefs are running amok!!1!
\_ Thank god you are here to save us from our own stupidity.
\_ Nothing to save, it was pretty stupid. This discussion is
infinitely less stupid than that post was. |
| 2005/1/24-26 [Computer/SW/P2P, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:35877 Activity:kinda low |
1/24 Of all the p2p software, which is the fastest at transferring large
(>1GB) files from one person to another? Some are premised on
multiple concurrent uploads to speed up the download (e.g.,
BitTorrent), which is great for popular files, but I have a large
set of data that would only be interesting to one other person. Is
FTP still the best way to go?
\_ Split up the file and use multiple FTP connections. The improvement
over single FTP connection is large if the distance is great (e.g.
between California and Japan).
between California and Japan), where the bottleneck is the roundtrip
time instead of bandwidth.
\_ p2p isn't about moving files from one user to the next. In your
example above, justputting the files on a website would be as fast
ast.
\_ One caveat with just putting files on a website, most Apache
builds can't send files larger than 2 gigs. -dans
\_ Also, how much data are you talking about? Tens of gigs, or
terabytes? Once you get into the terabyte range you're probably
better off just yanking the hard disks, and fedexing them.
Sneakernet is still the bandwidth king. -dans
\_ "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of
tapes." -some guy in the fortune file
\_ I have files around 2-5GB in size, so FTP sounds like the way to go.
Any reccommendations for free, secure FTP servers for Windows XP?
Going back to the p2p model, at what point does it become efficient?
That is, how many people does it take to share a file such that it
gets distributed fairly quickly? --op. (ps - these are VMWare
images)
\_ If you can initiate the transfer you might consider scp or rsync
with the appropriate flag to compress on the fly. As to your
p2p question, I think your understanding is a little flawed.
What p2p lets you do is aggregate bandwidth from more than one
source. Simplifying a lot and ignoring overhead, it's going to
take the same amount of time to transfer a file from a single
server connected via a T1 (1.5 megabits per second) as it would
to transfer a file via a p2p network where six sites with
256 kilobit per second connections are hosting the file. Add
more users and you add more bandwidth.
-dans |
| 2005/1/24 [Academia/UCLA] UID:35878 Activity:very high |
1/24 ilyas, tell us about the UCLA Westwood babes. What are some
differences between Cal/UCLA babes and what can you generalize. ok thx
\_ 2 h0t 4 U. -- ilyas
\_ ilyas is correct.
\_ Can anyone provide a theory as to why this might be true?
I believe you both, but why would there be more attractive
women in one area than another?
\_ I think it's partly cultural (people in LA, both male and
female, pay a lot more attention to apperance than
female, pay a lot more attention to appearance than
elsewhere, thus maximizing what God/genetics gave them),
and partly, attractive people come to LA in vain hopes of
winning the movie star lottery. -- ilyas
\_ It is more a case of the latter and thus UCLA is not
really where to go to find attractive people. That
is, most of them are not students. Go hang out in
Santa Monica, on Robertson, or on Melrose to find
the hot women who are here as model/actress/whatever.
Lots of women are also glorified whores who are
looking for wealthy men to be their sugar daddy. I
don't know why SF does not have this phenomenon like
LA and NYC do, but it doesn't. Probably because a
rich geek is still a geek.
\_ Not true at all. UCLA chicks are hot. So the former
is quite true. Some of the hot chicks have brains,
and they all have at least above-par SAT scores
and GPAs (which doesn't say shit about intelligence).
\_ The women off-campus are far hotter. You went
to Cal. They all look hot to you.
\_ Actually, it does, just not to the same degree.
Cf. girls from Marin who grew up on Mummy and Daddy's
money who now live in SF and dig The Scene-- and you,
if you're buying the drinks and the Fendi bags.
\_ If they are from rich families can't they buy
their own Fendi bags? I don't see the point of
being a whore when you are already rich,
although I guess it describes Paris Hilton.
\_ Women are all whores. It's part of culture...
the men always provide for the women, buy them
jewelry etc. Rich women just play at a higher
game level and don't need to settle down.
\_ People in LA are beautiful and stupid. -ausman
\_ This forces me to downgrade my estimation of my own
intelligence even further. -- ilyas
\_ And upgrade your own estimate of your beauty,
to be consistent, I hope. -ausman
\_ I ll settle for being satisfiable. -- ilyas
\_ Do you violate the compactness theorem?
\_ I'll violate yermom's theorem
\_ Not quite. The beautiful people are stupid, true.
There are also lots of smart and successful
people. They just tend to not be beautiful.
\_ I didn't mean every single one of them.
I would think that was obvious. Are you
from LA, perchance?
\_ Your statement seems to imply all of them,
but your explanation is fine.
\_ I don't believe this theory. Give us proofs, like
average measurement of body fat/weight ratio, the curvature
degree average, or something quantatively. I mean, this
is all subjective. In fact you guys are biased because you're
happy with the beautiful coastal weather, free beer or
something else. Let's see data.
\_ De grapes. Zey are zo zour!
\_ Just go hang out in West LA. I have had at least 3 very
attractive women who worked in West LA tell me that they
felt bad about themselves after spending every day there.
\_ Lots of fake boobs in LA and other plastic surgery.
\_ So if a woman has had liposuction does your dick
care?
\_ Dude, there's *a lot* more to good sex than mounting
and thrusting; not only interms of enthusiasm, but in
terms of what she's willing to do, and whether it's
pleasant when she does it, or just damn painful.
Otherwise, you're better off fucking a sack of
potatoes, since they don't ask for dinner afterward
and will at least stay moist from beginning to end.
\_ Only if she wants a pearl necklace.
\_ http://tinyurl.com/6am4r
Los Angeles ranks the same as Miami
\_ LA's great, but it's very specific (blonde and implanted).
NYC in the summer time has some incredible eye candy for
everyone.
\_ As an LA resident I can say that this is a stereotype.
There are lots of Latina, Jewish, Middle Eastern,
Indian, and other hotties.
\_ Don't forget Armenian.
\_ I included them as Middle-Eastern.
\_ Armenians are not middle eastern.
\_ If that's not the Middle East then what is it?
Yes, I realize they are not Arabs and are
from a Christian country but it looks like
the Middle East on a map.
\_ Armenians are Eastern European.
\_ Not in race, language, culture, or any
other way.
\_ Jew land looks also looks like middle east.
\_ It is the Middle East, too!
http://www.siteatlas.com/Maps/Maps/MEast.htm
Difference is that many people are dilute
Jews so you get blonde Jews and such.
\_ you missed African American, you RACIST
\_ Asian, too.
\_ My dates in L.A. have generally had smaller breasts, not
larger, and they haven't been blondes. They have,
however, been hotter. They take more time to take care
of their appearance since it's more valued here. That's
hard to "prove," but it's easy to see. The same, by the
way, is true of men. That's as opposed to Berkeley,
where concern for appearance takes up less than a minute
of many people's day. Berkeley is sort of the anti-L.A.
on the time/money vs. looks trade-off spectrum.
\_ my theory why ilyas feels miserable in the land of the beautiful:
http://www.unifr.ch/econophysics/articoli/dtelegraph.html
\_ I can only be truly happy on the motd, the land of the trolls.
-- ilyas
\_ Luckily, we don't all have the same standards of beauty. |
| 2005/1/24 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35879 Activity:high |
1/20 http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/20/rollling.stone.ap/index.html What happened to the First Amendment? We will fight back and we will not rest until we get our messages across on every single newspaper ads, magazine ads, and commercials. \_ I know this is a troll, but advertising is not free speech. \_ Well, not quite. If Rolling Stone ran the ad, and the state banned the issue, that would be a violation of free speech/press. In contrast, Rolling Stone refusing to run the ad is not a violation. If I posted logical, persuasive anti-freeper statements on http://FreeRepublic.com and they were all wiped by admins, that would not technically be a violation of the 1st Amendment. \_ Plus, your account would be shut off. \_ Still, it's always kinda funny to see the shoe on the other foot. |
| 2005/1/24-25 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:35880 Activity:very high |
1/24 Why doesn't the motd, the csua FAQ, or policies/motd have
information about how to write to the motd without clobbering
others' musings?
\_ csua doesn't recognize motd.public officially. There was a time
when it was publicized on the main web site but some prick decided
to take it out.
\_ named paolo,pst,pollux
\_ Because random hosers were trolling with incredibly offensive
anti-muslim diatribes, which were starting to appear in
google, and, despite the weak ``not the opinions of the csua,
blah blah blah'' disclaimer, this would likely have landed
the csua in deep shit for falling afoul of campus and asuc
hate speech rules. Given the context of the decision, it was
a good one, one that the entire politburo weighed in on.
-dans
\_ Well kchang has a pretty hilarious catchphrase on his
motd archive that's appended to anything potentially
offensive. And having motd.public but not putting
anything in the newuser guide what it's about is on the
bad side of cretinous, no matter what the original
justification is. Essentially, you're saying that the
CSUA allows something to exist, but refuses to either
provide instructions on how to use it, or to permit others
to create such instructions on how to use it that can be
easily RTFM'ed by new members. Dumb dumb dumb. -John
\_ well my original intention was to store only useful
tech stuff, like Linux and such. It's sad to see most
of the stuff archived in the past 2-3 years are
trolls/political trash. -kchang
\_ Problem easily solved -- delete the trolls from the
archive. -- ilyas
\_ you were not around when psb and I had this same
discussion. I was going to delete them, but
psb stopped me from doing so. For one, the auto
categorizer's not 100% proof and there may be
stuff erroneously deleted. The other debate had
to do with integrity and credibility of
Kais Motd. But most importantly, psb said so.
So all the political posts today exist thanks
to psb. --kchang
\_ John, that's not what I'm saying at all. I was just
explaining the actual history behind *why* motd.public
is no longer one link down from the CSUA home page. As
for lack of instructions that may be easily RTFM'ed, I
don't think the CSUA README or FAQ that appear in new
user accounts have been updated in in years (though I'd
be very happy if I was wrong about that fact). -dans
\_ that was 2001, and we were at war. Things are different
now, how about reverting the decision in the next csua
meeting? jvarga? paolo? anyone?
\_ Actually, that was 2001 and we were not at war. We
didn't go to war until after September 11, and we don't
appear to have achieved any of the objectives of the
subsequent warmongering. Oops, sorry for introducing
facts into the discussion. And if you want the
politburo to change the policy, why not *gasp* attend a
politburo meeting and ask them yourself? -dans
\_ I wouldn't mind except the drive is 400 miles
\_ politburo@csua still works.
\_ Do you still call them Freedom Fries?
\_ I thought Politburo closed the motd / removed motd.public
because a soda user felt threateaned by the "kill all
muslims" post. The CSUA getting in trouble with the
University issue seemed more peripheral.
\_ One particular politburo member yanked it because he
and/or his girlfriend were offended.
\_ He should have just set up a script to delete the
MOTD every 3 minutes instead. -tom
\_ I think paolo is the only person capable of trolling
the motd without posting to it. Are you guys going
to be ranting about this in 2011?
\_ In September especially.
\_ If CSUA doesn't recognize it, why does it still copy its content
to motd.public?
\_ Wow. Your ability to rewrite history to your liking
in the absence of actual facts must provide you with
limitless hours of amusement. -dans
\_ If CSUA doesn't recognize motd.public, why does it still copy its
content to motd? |
| 2005/1/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion] UID:35881 Activity:very high |
1/24 Pro-life gaining momentum, with only 34% in the US in favor
of abortion. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145221,00.html
Also 30 states ready to ban abortion:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134530,00.html
I'm thankful for God and George Bush for making America
a better place to live. God Bless.
\_ Coathangers: They're not just for clothing any more.
\_ "According to a New York Times/CBS News poll taken in November, 34
percent of those surveyed wanted to keep abortion generally
available, as it is now. Forty-four percent wanted stricter limits
and 21 percent wanted an outright ban."
!= "34% in the US in favor of abortion"
\_ Why don't "pro-life" types complain about invetro fertilization?
\_ Why don't "pro-life" types complain about invitro fertilization?
By their, and the so called "Army of God"'s, definitions, you
shove a half dozen "live babies" (fertilized eggs) into some
40 year old career woman's barren womb, and expect most of them
to die. "Live babies" which are not injected, and are later
not needed, are thrown away to die cold and alone in a bio-
hazard bag. But none of these clinics get mail bombs, anthrax
threats, or even picketers! What gives??
\_ God works one step at a time. Ideally, childless couples
could adopt kids who were not aborted.
\_ Your God sucks. My God, Enthuramanien, executes 4 steps
per clock on average.
\_ Some of us *do* complain about it.
\_ you are right and many pro-lifers do not like
invitro fertilization.
\_ You're looking for consistency from a group who thinks
Spongebob will taint their children, but not Joe Camel?
\_ I don't know about that, but there are lots of militant
radical feminists who believe that in-vitro fertilization
is a curse, further enslaving women to the
male-created "responsibility" of producing babies.
These people are really quite insane.
\_ Sigh. You forgot the relationship that states honest != OP.
\_ I never understood the issue of the need for late term abortion.
Pro-Life / Pro-Choice aside, if a women decides to abort the baby
6, 7, 8 months into pregnancy, isn't that just plain irresponsible
on the woman's part? I mean, what was the women doing for 6 months?
Couln't she have decided by then? I'm speaking of normal scenarios.
Rape, safety of mother's life and etc... are of course another
story. Someone care to enlighten me?
\_ You haven't understood because it's a non-issue. The number of
procedures as most people understand the definition is
infinitesimal. This whole non-issue is sold so legislation
with vague wording can be pushed through by upsetting people
with a fiction. Such legislation is the lip of the slippery
slope.
\_ Perhaps someone should define Pro-Life and Pro-Choice for me.
\_ Would you say that the number of late-term abortions in the
US is greater than or less than the number of multiple
murders of wife and unborn child? Or the number of death
penalty executions?
\_ You're heading for a false dichotomy. Late-term
abortion is ill-defined (purposefully).
abortion is ill-defined (purposefully). And I don't
have numbers, but I'd be willing to bet less.
\_ "The number of procedures as most people understand
the definition is infinitesimal." So, "as most people
understand the definition", how "infinitesimal" is it?
Fewer than death penalty executions? Fewer than wife/
unborn infant multiple murders? Fewer than Columbine
style massacres?
\_ Do you think a woman who finds out her baby has
0% chance of survival at birth and decides to
have an abortion should be thrown in jail. This
is what "late-term abortion ban" is about.
\_ So the definition of "late-term abortion" requires
a non-viable fetus? Reference please.
\_ No. The Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of
last year makes the process this woman would
use ILLEGAL.
\_ Now, you do understand that this is not
the same as when you claimed that '"late-
term abortion ban" is about [banning
abortions of non-viable fetus]'. How about
banning "late-term abortion" except in
cases where the fetus has a "0% chance
of survival at birth"?
\_ Of course, but bad law/policy is no
excuse. This is only one aspect of the
discussion. An abortion is one the
hardest decisions a woman would ever
have to make. But if she makes it, she
should have access to the safest
procedure possible, and should not be
thrown in jail for it.
\_ Even if the fetus were viable outside
the womb, the woman should still have
an unlimited right to choose? How
about if the woman were in the midst
of labor when she makes a last minute
choice to abort? An extreme case, of
course, but should it be illegal or
should that still be a woman's choice?
\_ An idiotic "case". If these are
the hairs you're splitting, you need
to reexamine your view of people.
These things don't need to be
legislated.
\_ This made me laugh out loud.
Infanticide (which is what this
'case' describes) does not
need to be legislated, you say?
How about plain old murder?
I wonder what you think needs
legislation. Probably whether
someone can own a gun or
something vitally important
like that. -- ilyas
\_ Why does this not require
legislation? Are you claiming
this will *never* happen?
this will *never* happen? You
are so good at having opinions.
Now please support them with
sound reasoning.
\_ Killing my wife is one of the hardest
decisions I could ever have to make.
But if I make it, I should have access
to the safest procedure possible,
and I should not be thrown in jail
for it.
\_ Getting a tattoo is one of the
hardest decisions I could ever have
to make. But if I make it, I
should have access to the safest
procedure possible, and I should
not be thrown in jail for it.
\_ How many Columbine style massacres were there last
year? Fewer than that too? How about genocides?
Or gas chamber death camps? Are you really sure that
things that happen rarely or almost never at all are
not worthy of legal prohibition?
\_ Specifically worded, perhaps not; laws that are
ambiguous, such as the so-called "Partial Birth
Abortion" ban, are just devious legislation.
\_ So you would support legislation banning "late-
term abortion" so long as the act was
specifically defined?
\_ I actually wouldn't oppose it (though I doubt
I'd support it). The point is moot. Above
poster is correct. The existing attempts at
"partial birth" and "late term" abortion bans
are all examples of gaming the process. The
people who might write such a law won't because
it isn't in their interest. -- ulysses
\_ Thank you. This is a much more defendable
position than the simple doctrinaire "it's
a woman's choice" most of the pro-choice
crowd spews. You do realize that you're
slipping into the zone of the 44% who
support some limit on abortion?
\_ You do realize you're in the demographic
that has no inkling of the history of the
effects of abortion being illegal?
\_ Life is complicated and subtle. A
limit on abortion is not the same thing
as a blanket prohibition on it. We
are a different people than we were
40 years ago.
\_ Life is complicated and subtle. Its
beginnings are much more so. We can
agree that late-term-abortion-as-
birth-control is abhorrent, but we
have plenty of room to debate
abortion as mercy-killing (Tay-
Sachs or even Downs Syndrome).
\_ And I would have no problem
with "late-term" abortion
under special circumstances.
I suspect I would even have no
problem with the reciprocal,
where "late-term" abortion is
only illegal for special circum-
stances. But I am not comfort-
able with absolutist yea or
nay position. As we both agree,
life is complicated and subtle,
and the absolutist position is
such a blunt instrument.
\_ The problem is that as soon
as you start defining
specifics both sides will
drag it into the courts
to either restrict or
loosen the limits. This
will go on forever.
\_ Third trimester abortions are illegal in most states, except
when the health of the mother is a factor.
\_ "Pro-life." Right. How many of those who are "Pro-life" are anti-
death penalty? Call it what it is: Anti-abortion. The term "Pro-
life" is inherently a ridiculous strawman.
\_ Pro-life is pretty accurate. The fact is that, had the mother
not aborted, there would very likely be a little baby at birth
time.
Pro-life people weigh the life of the baby yet to be born
equally with the life of the mother.
\_ So why not call themselves "Anti-Mother"? Aside from the
Kevorkians and the nihilists, everyone is pro-life. To be
anti-life is just plain silly. The tag is meaningless because
it does nothing to describe the actual goals of the people
so labelled, namely, to illegalize abortion. So say Anti-
Abortion and get on with it.
\_ Shrug. In their view, if you think abortion should be
legal, you are pro-murder, which is worse than anti-life. |
| 2005/1/24 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:35882 Activity:nil |
1/24 Meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss:
http://csua.org/u/ata
\_ MASS GRAVES! |
| 2005/1/24 [Uncategorized] UID:35883 Activity:nil |
1/24 http://www.homestarrunner.com/systemisdown.html \_ So 3 years ago. |
| 2005/1/24 [Uncategorized] UID:35884 Activity:nil |
1/24 What is a good international callback service? |
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