Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:December:28 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/12/28 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/Security] UID:35455 Activity:high
12/28   I have access to a large supply of psx, n64 and snes...besides
        games are there any good uses for these consoles?  Are there
        ways to use them for parallel computing or educational
        purposes? -scottyg
        \- see e.g.
           i wonder if they were able to buy the hardware subsidized. --psb
        \_ got any spare saturns?  Want to sell one?  -aspo
           \_sure, go to -scottyg
            \_ 50 bucks???  That isn't so square.
               \_ Check ebay, Saturns are having a bit of a revival.  I'll
                  be putting mine up soon, with games, if you're
                  interested. -jrleek
       \- see e.g.
          i wonder if they were able to buy the hardware subsidized. --psb
       \_ got any spare saturns?  Want to sell one?  -aspo
2004/12/28 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:35456 Activity:high
12/28   Ding dong the witch is dead.
        \_ Fuck you.
        \_ Who? Susan Sontag?
           \_ "They white race is a cancer on humanity." Hehe
           \_ "The white race is a cancer on humanity." Hehe
              \_ "The truth is that Mozart, Pascal, Boolean Algebra,
                 Shakespeare, parliamentary government, baroque churches,
                 Newton, the emancipation of women, Kant, Marx, and
                 Ballanchine ballets don't redeem what this particular
                 civilization has wrought upon the world. The white race
                 is the cancer of human history."
                 \_ Hey look!  The founder and president of white liberal guilt
                 \_ Wow, she sounds awesome.
                    \_ More than that. She was. Nobody who contributes here
                       regularly is likely to write a single paragraph that
                       could stand against Sontag. And I don't like her stuff,
                       \_ Pfft, you and your Jewish Liberal Left Wing
                          popoganda. Useful idiots indeed.
                          propaganda. Useful idiots indeed.
                          \_ Dude. At least they can spell.
                             \_ Fixed, happy now, mister anal-gotta-have-it
                                formatted-to-80-display? Haven't seen a
                                typo troll in a while.
                                \_ Yes happy now. And drubbings shall continue
                                   upon further lapses, unless, of course, you
                                   are the psb.
                       \_ What do you mean by this?  Do you mean she was a
                          good writer, or that she was well reasoned?  If
                          A, that's not at all surprising, if B and the
                          quote above is really hers, so far evidence is
                          against you.  (I know nothing about her myself.)
                          \_ Mainly A, though a lot of B. As with many people
                             who write a LOT, folks tend to echo the zanier
                             things she said. It would be entertaining to see
                             how well, say, David Horowitz, held up to the same
                             sort of scrutiny.
        \_ which witch?
        \_ huh?
        \_ Ann Coulter?  Martha Stewart?
2004/12/28 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35457 Activity:moderate
        "In the matter of courage (a morally neutral virtue): whatever may be
        said of the perpetrators of Tuesday's slaughter, they were not
        cowards." -Susan Sontag, Sep 24 2001 issue of the New Yorker
        Goddamnit, I hate stupid liberals, especially those who are "smart".
        We're on the same team, but these people make us look like idiots.
        \_ Courage cannot be a morally neutral virtue in Platonian ethics,
           for obvious reasons.  Plato is so influential in ethical
           philosophy, I am surprised this point isn't addressed more.
           Unless, of course, she's just a demagogue. -- ilyas
        \_ With what do you disagree?  That courage can be evaluated in
           moral-neutral terms?  What was "cowardly" about the attacks?
           They were horrendous, shocking, unthinkable.  But cowardly?
           Calling them cowardly may be a salve for us here, but it's not
           necessarily true.
           \_ Killing civilians, where the idea is to kill as many as possible,
              is almost the purest definition of cowardice.  It's discouraging
              that someone as "smart" as Sontag couldn't recognize this.
              This is no "salve" -- this is the truth, long and short of it.
              \_ They went after US symbols of monetary and governmental
                 power.  If they wanted to kill as many civilians as possible,
                 they could have flown the planes into any of the nuclear
                 plants along the route.  I'm not trying to make light of the
                 deaths, but you've forgotten what the target was.
                 \_ Actually, the nuclear plants probably would have
                    killed less people and would have been much harder to
                    \_ Says you and who else?
                       \_ Read up on dirty bombs, and nuclear materials in
                          general.  As for harder to hit, are you an
                 \_ I think Osama thought it was great to kill two birds with
                    one stone:  (1) "Spectacular" attack from killing so
                    many innocents, and (2) the financial repercussions from
                    taking out the WTC.  I haven't forgotten anything, hombre.
        \_ She wasn't exactly a "liberal", more like a "rabble rouser", like
           just write/say crap that's total nonsense and dress it up with
           high-brow veneer and make it look like someone intelligent
           wrote it. I never liked her novels.
        \_ Terrorists are all cowards.
           \_ It's pretty courageous to drive your car into a crowd of
              innocent and unarmed people, which is basically what the
              WTC attackers did. If that's not courage then what is?!
              \_ how many troll points is this worth?
                 \_ Your sarcasm meter is on the blink.
                    \_ you needed more "?!!!"
           \_ "Cowards are cruel, but the brave Love mercy, and delight to
               save." -- John Gay
              "When all the blandishments of life are gone, The coward
               sneaks to death, the brave live on." -- Dr. George Swewll
              "To wish for death is a coward's part. [Lat., Timidi est
               optare necem.] -- Ovid (Publius Ovidius Naso)
                \_ Those last two quotes miss the point entirely.  But
                   agree with Sontag, willfully piloting a plane into a
                   buildings is a lot of despicable things, but cowardly
                   it is not.
                   \_ I believe Sontag and you are both missing a key point.
                      The term "cowardly" is NOT morality-neutral.
                      "cowardice":  lack of courage or resolution
                      "courage":  mental or moral strength to venture,
                      persevere, and withstand danger, fear, or difficulty
                      Now, if there were a morality-neutral term to use
                      for piloting a plane into a building, killing yourself,
                      then use that term.
                      This is where you say:  "Oh, but it says 'mental' OR
                      'moral' strength, and I meant mental courage, and that's
                      morality-neutral, so there!"
                      Then here is where I say:  "The moral connotation trumps
                      in this case; use a clear, morality-neutral term."
        \_ "Well, I believe [...] that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-
           indulgent, overrated crap."  - Crash Davis, "Bull Durham"
2004/12/28 [Health, Health/Women] UID:35458 Activity:high
12/28   Excellent point about Vioxx, etc. that I've been saying (but he's
        saying it much better):
        \_ Good article. -- ilyas
           \_ This explains a lot.
        \_ well written. the last few sentences are great.
        \- isnt everything in there obvious to moderately educated people?
                \_ not necessarily. 1) you overestimate the intelligence
                   of the american public. 2) I'm not implying anything
                   about people's intelligence here, but I doubt everyone
                   viewed this vioxx situation in the same way.
        \_ I think this article completely misses the point.  The problem
           is not one of risk management but of the drug companies
           knowingly concealing evidence about the dangers of a drug while
           spending millions marketing it to patients and doctors.  One
           more thing: when I played high school football, most people wore
           as many pads as they could.  Running backs wore even *more* padding
           since they got hit so much.  The only people I knew who wore less
           padding were quarterbacks (pads can hinder throwing).  Maybe the
           pros are better at dodging than the people I played with.  -emin
           \_ They are bigger for sure, and have more 'natural padding'.
              Also, they get paid more, so the hit in performance from
              more padding is of more interest to them than to a random
              high school guy who plays football for 'fun and status.'
2004/12/28-29 [Computer/Networking] UID:35459 Activity:low
12/28   How can I find out the IP addresses of the machine that a program is
        running on? I know one way is just to gethostname() and then do a
        gethostbyname() on that. But that relies on the resolver. Ideally,
        I'd like to do it the way 'ifconfig' does it (which AFAICT doesn't
        rely on the resolver), but I haven't been able to track down yet
        exactly how it does it. Thanks.
        \_ It reads /proc/net in Linux. Probably does something similar
           in *NIX/*BSD you use. -williamc
        \_ then read ifconfig source.  /usr/src/sbin/ifconfig/
        \_ why not just fork off an 'ifconfig -a' and parse through its output?
           And assuming that a machine has just one IP address is not a good
           assumption to make...
2004/12/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:35460 Activity:low
        (SI/ article regarding swimsuit model who survived)
        Is it me or is this a very arrogant article, considering how many
        thousands have died? Or is it in fact appropriate because it's
        sports illustrated reporting it?
        \_ I don't really think so.  Two reasons, A) It's really difficult
           to empathize with 50,000 people you never knew existed, and B)
           people always want to read about the survivor.  It's a
           pretty crazy story, she clung to a palm tree for 8 hours with a
           broken pelvis and internal injuries.
        \_ In SEA people are hearing all kinds of harrowing tales. I think
           it is just SI choosing one for its market. Everyone who survived
           either was lucky enough to be on high "ground" or went through
           the wringer and somehow came out w/o a broken neck, smashed
           head, impalement, etc.  80% of stories I read pivot around
           "luckily, the wave tossed me into a tree/window/roof" such that
           the survivor avoided the churn and under currents.  Quite a few
           were swept to sea and rescued, as well.
2004/12/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35461 Activity:insanely high
12/28   Is it me, or is $35 million the US has pledged seems rather
        small? I mean we are the fucking United States of America and
        all we can give in a tragedy of this magnitude is 15 million?
        \_ It's just you.  How many of our tax dollars should the US government
           pledge to help another nation?
           \_ Yes, help someone in need that you will have nothing to gain
              from, that's obviously a new concept to you.
              \_ It's not new at all.  But that giving should be done by
                 individual citizens, not by allocation of our tax dollars.
           \_ None. Our tax dollars should only be used to bomb them.
        \_ I agree that it is rather small, compared to the amount
           we have spent so far to invade another country.
           \_ like Darfur, this is another opportunity which we can use
              to counter Osma Bin Laden's propaganda.  We should of dragged
              those Arab satellite TV stations along with us, show them that
              we do help out people, including those Muslim as well.
        \_ the USA is not socialist!  We have low taxes so that people can
           keep most of their money from wasteful bureaucracy, and more
           efficiently and voluntarily give to charities people can
           individually select! -New Republican l0ser who STILL p0wn5 4ll u
           dem0cr4tic l0s3r5!
           (sarcasm aside, the problem is that Democrats intuitively know
           there is a problem with the above argument, but just sit there
           and fume about rich/ignorant freeper bastards instead of giving a
           persuasive counter-argument)
           \_ 0mgz!  n3rf tr0015!!!!``111!!~@!
           \_ I d like to hear some.  I became a libertarian because someone
              changed my mind.  It could certainly be changed again. -- ilyas
              \_ The problem is that, left to their own devices, people will
                 donate inefficiently.  We need a coordinating authority to
                 make sure the money is spent wisely.  Of course, the
                 government also seems to do a bad job of steering money to
                 projects that have the greatest positive impact.
                 \_ I agree that given perfect information, and given
                    incorruptibility, a central planning agency will do better
                    than a set of independent agents.  However, since those
                    assumptions are both incorrect when applied to governments,
                    and since independent agents have shown to be more effective
                    in resource allocation for investment, for instance, than
                    a central agency, what makes you say the same is not true
                    for charity? -- ilyas
                    \_ fyi, "The problem is that ..." guy is not the same guy
                       as the "sarcasm aside, ..." guy.
                    \_ Note that I agreed that the government seems to do an
                       inefficient job of allocating charity money.  So my
                       argument is not so much individual vs. the governemtn,
                       but rather the individual vs. a "charity planner".
                       Individual investers often (usually?) do a bad job of
                       managing their own investment strategy and they would be
                       smart to leave the job up to professinoals (mutual
                       funds managers, financial planners, etc.)  Why not use
                       the analog for charity giving?  Instead of individual
                       persons making donations based on personal whim or
                       public appeals, why not use follow the recommendation
                       offered by a charity expert?  Why not donate money to a
                       mutual fund of charities, just as a person would
                       investment in a mutual fund of stocks?  This is likely
                       not the optimal strategy (for both charitable giving
                       and investment), but it'll probably yield better long
                       term results than going it on your own.
                       \_ I see no problem with this, as long as people, just
                          as with mutual funds, have a choice of where to
                          donate, or whether to go at it alone.  In fact, isn't
                          this how charity works now? -- ilyas
                          \_ Do I get a choice to opt-out of paying for
                             the war in Iraq?
                             \_ There are a few possibilities here:
                                (a) You are an anarcho-capitalist.  Then I
                                sympathize with your plight.
                                (b) You don't believe in democracy as a form
                                of government.  Then I sympathize with your
                                plight and agree.
                                (c) You are a liberal troll.  Then I advice you
                                to go stick your head in a pig. -- ilyas
                                \_ Dude, you just said "Why do you hate
                                   America?" and you didn't even realize it.
                             \_ Hahahaha, you are my hero!
                                \_ You two both took the choice of not
                                   volunteering for the citizen-soldier armed
                                   forces!  Freedom is not free!!  Now get back
                                   to work traitors!@1! -Troll
                             \_ So long as the rest of us also get to opt out
                                of paying for the things we disagree with, sure.
                       \_ Um, you do realize that >90% of managed mutual funds
                          perform worse than the market as measured by major
                          indices (e.g. DOW, S&P 500, etc.), and that's

                          *before* deducting commissions, management fees, and
                          other overhead.
                          \_ 1.  Do you think Moses came down from Mount Sinai
                             with the lists of stocks that comprise the Dow
                             (not an initial, BTW, unless you say DJIA),
                             S&P, etc.?  2.  Asset allocation is everything.
                             The effect of selecting particular securities
                             is secondary.
        \_ How much did you donate? How does the $35 million compare to
           what other nations contributed? How much do they donate to us
           when we have a disaster?
        \_ $35 million is a lot of money for countries like Sri Lanka.
           Anyway, we've donated enough money to 3rd world countries over
           the years, and we've bailed them out countless times.
        \_ you have to put things in perspective.  Taiwan donated whopping
           $50k USD to Thailand for the relief effort :p
           \_ I'm sorry to say this but the wealthy Taiwanese people are one
              of the most self-indulging people in this world. They drive
              nice cars and eat expensive Chinese seafood yet do not
              understand the meaning of charity. They don't seem to care
              about anything other than keeping their blood and money in
              their own circles.        -dated an X-gf who was Taiwanese
              \_ What about reallocating a week's worth of aid to Israel
                 to this earthquake/tsunami relief fund.  That will be at
                 least $50million.
              \_ Yea, but that's because they have to pay US$18 billion
                 (multiple times what other countries pay for them)
                 to the US for its outdated older generation weapons.
                 Generally speaking I agree with you.  Part of the
                 reason is that Taiwan has too few Christians (2%).
                 \_ Hello, are you a conservative? Are you a Republican?
                    Do you think the war has made the world safer? Do you
                    think the world will be a better place when everyone
                    is converted to a Christian?                -moderate
                 \_ "have to pay"?
                    \_ Yes, or surrender to commie China.
        \_ Some one asked how much other countries have donated. Here:
           The United States is offering a total of $35 million, followed
           by Japan with $30 million. Australia has now pledged $27
           million, Saudi Arabia $10 million and Germany $2.7 million.
           \_ Australia and Japan have more incentive to contribute,
              being the major players there. What about France, Russia,
              and so on?
2004/12/28-29 [Transportation/Car] UID:35462 Activity:moderate
12/28   Trip Report:  Hit I-5 (from 78, in Oceanside) at 9:40, and traffic
        was a dream.  Took 5 to 55, visited friends in Santa Ana, smoothest
        drive you could ask for.  Got back on 55 around 1:50, transferred to
        5 North, lulled by its unoccupied nature.  Fool.  Brothers and
        sisters, I-5 may look like an asphalt ribbon on the gem that is the
        city of Los Angeles, but do not be fooled; it is a trap, and all of
        its promises of smooth sailing turn to cramps and inane blocks of stop
        and go.  Hit four pockets of this crap.  Still somehow managed to make
        it to 210 by 3:30, then got socked in by warnings of a two-hour delay
        and a horrendous accident 17 miles ahead.  Grumbled and cursed, then
        counted blessings as we were passed by the Coroner's car on the left
        shoulder.  Two hours later passed two semis facing the wrong way, one
        with a cab that had obviously been through a roll, much to the
        physical detriment of its driver.  Torrential rain and heavy winds all
        the way to the Grapevine, followed by fog, sand/dirt, and typhoon-
        force winds up to Avenal, followed by torrential rain and heavy winds
        all the way to Livermore; traffic on the 5 after the Grapevine was
        mostly clear, however.  Longest trip north I've ever had; I figure we
        were on the road nearly 12 hours total.
        \_ Sorry. -- ilyas
        \_ Sorry.  You know, I wasn't kidding about staying off the freeways.
           These days, if I can get to a known destination on city streets,
           I do so.  It's faster on average. -- ilyas
        \_ Damn those people who die in accidents and make everyone else late.
           Traffic needs more fault tolerance.
           \_ Read more closely.  We were properly chastised just by seeing
              the Coroner's car go by.
              \_ I know... I was making a semi-serious comment.
2004/12/28-29 [Consumer/Camera] UID:35463 Activity:kinda low
12/28   Here is a camera question on other end of the spectrum.  I want a
        digicam to take nice pictures of things that I want to get rid of on
        ebay.  As cheap as possible w/o being crap.  I already know how to
        take pictures (I own 2 film SLRs but have lost interest in photography)
        Need: optical zoom, web sharp resolution, sturdy enough to be abused by
        11-year old kid.  ok tnx for your recommendation.
        \_ Just buy a low end digital camera. Just go to Fry's. I mean, c'mon
           do you really need a recommendation for a low-end camera when you
           can just hop over to Best Buy's, Fry's, etc. and plunk down $200
           for one?
           \_ Yes he/she does.  Minolta has ones with lenses built into the
              body (doesn't extend out) and are light and thin.  You can
              find one for < $200.  Search and sort by price.
              Canon is the choice for high-precision shots for the normal
              buyer, as person below notes.  Minolta's okay, but mobility is
        \_ You want the Canon EOS 1Ds-Mark II.
        \_ you have to be careful.  You need to think rather you need macro
           or not.  and... why you need optical zoom again?  Canon A400
           is a no-thrill camera, 2x optical zoom, takes ok picture, use
           standard AA bettery.  the downside is 1. thick (bulky), 2. no
           apature/shutter speed priority mode, and 3. lousy macro.
2004/12/28-29 [Consumer/TV] UID:35464 Activity:very high
12/28   My dad wants those Chinese satellite TV dish thingy (where you get
        5-10 Mandarin stations). Where can I find more info on it and how
        much does it cost? ok thx.
        \_ does this help? (
           note some packages are mainland, some are taiwan
           my parents got something from Monterey Park here in SoCal - don't
           know if it's another provider or whatever, but it was ~ $20-30 /
           month, free install I think.
           \_ Directv provides a superior set of programs.
              \_ I don't get it.  The Chinese/Taiwanese programming seems
                 the same or not as not as good.  Are you talking about
                 the general subscription?
                 \_ yeah, they suck.  That is why I am in TW and all I watch
                    is Discovery/National Geographic/Animal Planet channel.
        \_ You want the Dish network's Great Wall package. 17 channels of
           Chinese stations from mainland. The TW stations are crap for
           teenagers with no taste. I don't think DirecTV offers it.
        \_ my dad hates all mainland Chinese.  He always wishes he were born
           a Japanese samurai.  How do I know which channels are Taiwanese
           truth telling channel and which ones are Beijing subversive commie
           channels? -op
           \_ my DPP parents have the ETTV subscription.
           \_ Haha, a brainwashed TWnese. Dish have a package deal from
              HK/TW too. It's the 'other' Chinese package. BTW, there are
              so many lies spread by those Taiwanese channels I stopped
              watching them.
        \_ do you mean FTA free-to-air satellite programming?
           I set this up for my folks -- no one seems to know about it
           unless they're trying to receive free ethnic programming.
           What a lot of companies do is charge for setup of a dish
           (it's a little bigger in size than a directv dish)
           and ask for monthly payments but the signal is essentially free,
           unencrypted, so you could set it up yourself for about $200-$300 parts.
           \_ WOW COOL, where can I get more info? thx
              \_ Check
                 for list of free channels for US.  Some of the channels
                 require the 1-meter/3-feet sized dish to receive.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:December:28 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>