Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:December:21 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2004/12/21 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:35369 Activity:nil
12/20   Dear Mr. tcsh, here is a puzzle.  I have a tcsh script that runs fine,
        but when I use "tcsh -n" to check its syntax it always fail with.
          [xxx-xx]if ( ${?prompt} ) then
          [xxx-xx]tcsh: ${?prompt}: No match.
        (I have turned on -v switch.)  What's wrong?
        \-while i no longer follow tcsh code closely, there have been
          some globbing bugs [the way stuff should be parsed is a little
          bit vague in csh] ... that's what i suspect you are hitting.
          this isn't worth tracing at the code level.
        \_ I used to use tcsh before I switched to zsh.
           zsh is great: all the interactive features of tcsh,
           but bash compatibility. And you can make really cool prompts.
2004/12/21 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:35370 Activity:kinda low
12/21   uniq can get rid of 2 identical lines if they occur right after
        each other.  But how do you get rid of 2 identical lines, even
        if they don't occur right after each other.  using sort works,
        but then all the lines are out of order, which is a problem.
        \_ perl.  counters for each unique pattern so far.  Hell, you
           can do it using a temp file with just /bin/sh scripts.
           \_ perl -ne '$m{$_}++||print' <file>
              this does the uniq thing, not kill all duplicates. -vadim
        \_ do it scalably w/ bash, e.g. let the sort/uniq tools do
           the heavy lifting:
           n=0
           while read line ; do echo "$n $line" ; n=$(($n + 1)); done \
           | sort -k 2 | uniq -f 1 | sort -n \
           | while read num rest ; do echo "$rest" ; done
           \_ cat -n <file> | sort -uk 1.8 | sort | cut -c8-  -vadim
        \_ to do what you really asked, you can replace sort -uk 1.8 with
           sort -k 1.8 | uniq -uf1. -vadim
        \_ another one (zsh):
           typeset -A m; while read l; do [ $m[$l] ] || echo $l && \
           m[$l]=1; done -vadim
        \_ /tmp/unique.c is something I wrote on SunOS5 a few years ago.
           --- yuen
           \_ waaaay unsafe. The least you could do is store md5s in the
              hash. -vadim
              \_ It's just some quick utility I came up with to discard
                 duplicated path names.  It wasn't meant to be secure. --- yuen
2004/12/21 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/HW/Display] UID:35371 Activity:high
12/21   Hey fellow moderately rich bastards.  The Samsung 193P is on sale at
        http://jr.com for $500 after rebate.  I just put in my order with next-day
        shipping.  See http://newegg.com or http://pricegrabber.com to see other prices.
        http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3967280
        \_ How can it have a 4:3 AR with a native resolution of 1280x1024?
           (And yes, I am aware of the existence of rectangular pixels, but
           I was under the impression that no one sane makes LCDs with
           non-square pixels.)
        \_ I don't get what's so special about this monitor with the exception
           of slightly higher contrast ratio.  Am I missing something?
           \_ http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-guide.html
              http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2289
              There is consensus that the 2001FP (20" Dell) is better still.
        \_ Fully review here: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2024&p=1
              \_ It's not better except it's bigger. If you read the comments
                 on that monitor, 193P has better features and they rated it
                 higher in the "subjective" analysis.
                 \_ Yer right.  I should say, "some say that" the 2001FP is
                    better still because it's 1600x1200 and has all the groovy
                    inputs.
        \_ Full review here: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2024&p=1
           Note this comparison:
           http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1974&p=7
        \_ You can get the Dell 20" wide 2005fpw for $622. Don't
           bother with the samsumg for $500. Check
           http://www.techbargains.com for the coupon code. I am ordering
           one, no rebates, no fuss, and 20". If you can afford $500,
           you can afford $622, believe me, the difference between
           $1600x1050 and 1280x1024 is big.
           \_ Do you expect any problems with widescreen?
              \_ I will let you know when I receive mine. :) So far I haven't
                 heard any problems with the wide screen. It works better for
                 DVDs and photos taken with digital SLR, you actually get more
                 pixels than 1600x1200 but shrinked....
                 \_ What happens when you want to drive it with a 2 yr old
                    notebook with Intel chipset graphics?  (how does it
                    interpolate to 1680x1050?)
              \_ I'm trying to decide this too... I could get this for $610
                 shipped with my coupons.
                 \_ Actually if you call Dell Small Business, they may
                    give you a 35% off coupon. That will bring the
                    overall price to ~ $560 shipped with tax. Hella of
                    a deal. Just ordered mine.  The best price I can
                    find online is the 30% off for small business, but
                    with tax and shipping, which totals to about $620.
                    But you have to call them, as the $35% off coupon
                    is not listed anywhere. Check this thread
                    http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1026999131
                    \_ You got free shipping too? Well, I went ahead and
                       ordered my crappier deal and will call tomorrow to
                       bitch or cancel if I can't squeeze out any more money.
           \_ What if the 193P is only $414 ?
              http://www.hwextreme.com/deals.shtml
              \_ Are you talking about the Dell E193FP?  I don't see the 193P.
                 \_ you are right.  my bad.
        \_ This item has now gone offline.  (You need to call them or
           go to a bricks&mortar store.) -op
2004/12/21 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:35372 Activity:high
12/21   http://tinyurl.com/3hwmn
        US Slips in Attracting the World's Best Students
        \_ The article indicates a decline in number of students
           (nothing new there) and does *not* in any way make statements
           about the "world's best".  Quoting the article title (even from
           the nyt) is inappropriate here because the claim isn't backed up.
           \_ As far as graduate study, the US has always attracted the best.
              Therefore, any drop in students means the best are looking
              elsewhere.
              \_ Was every grad student who came to the US from abroad
                 "the best"?  Your logic is weak.
                 \_ Heh. Some I've met were very good. Most were just willing
                    to take more abuse from their advisors than homegrown
                    students who can walk and get paid better elsewhere.
                    \_ You're already limited by self-selection.  When's the
                       last time you visited the campus of say Golden Gate
                       University or St. Mary's?
                       \_ I apologize for being dense, but I'm not getting your
                          point. What is it about those schools?
                          \_ The foreign student population at less selective
                             universities are most likely even less bright
                             than the dullards you've met at your school.
                             Then there are the lowest tier "colleges" where
                             education play second fiddle to the primary task
                             of providing foreign "students" with paper work
                             so they can enter the US.
                             \_ I'm constantly amazed at the number of
                                Japanese attending Jr. college in CA.
                                \_ JC is positively Harvardesque compared to
                                   some of the most egregious visa mills.
                                   http://brandoncollege.com for example.  Are we
                                   losing visa mill students or are we losing
                                   MIT students?  The distinction is important
                                   and unaddressed.
                 \_ As is your grasp of the obvious.
                    \_ Unfortunately, your grasp of subtlety is even weaker.
              \_ From TFA:
                  "Other countries are just starting to expand their capacity
                  for offering graduate education. In the future, foreign
                  students will have far greater opportunities."
                  This is good news for non-US students--they won't necessarily
                  have to come to the US for grad studies (because it's no
                  longer the only game in town).
        \_ That's ok, those best students are never the right races.
           \_ The dirty Arabs want to corrupt our precious bodily fluids.
              \_ You say that like it's a bad thing...http://csua.org/u/agp
                 (NWS)
2004/12/21 [Uncategorized] UID:35373 Activity:moderate
12/21   Since there are only about a dozen of us checking the motd this week,
        please exercise a modicum of restraint in deleting the interesting
        threads on our (fictional) social lives.  Thank you.
        \_ Niether rain nor shine nor vaction time shall keep the nuker
           from his rounds.
        \_ Listen. And understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be
           bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity,
           or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until
           drivel are dead.
           \_ ^terminator^ilyas
           \_ Wow, this was almost funny.
2004/12/21 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:35374 Activity:high
12/21   So, uh, what's to prevent all the polling places in Iraq from getting
        all blowed up?
        \_ For one thing, there are 7000 of them, so it will be hard
           to hit them all. For another thing, most of the Sunnis are
           looking forward to winning the election and being in power,
           so the vast majority of the population in most of the country
           are going to be interested in protecting them.
           \_ You do realize the Sunnis are a minority population in Iraq,
              right?
           \_ ^Sunnis^Shiites
              \_ Thank you.
           \_ The Kurds all appear to be ok with it too.  The Sunni are
              the ones who have a problem with it.
              \_ that is because we pratically redraw the border and allow
                 Kurds to have virtual independence.
2004/12/21-22 [Uncategorized] UID:35375 Activity:nil
12/21   Does disabling finger info (~/.nofinger) help reduce spam that I
        receive?  Thanks.
        \_ no.
           \_ I won't use it then.  Thx.
2004/12/21 [Health, Politics/Foreign/Canada] UID:35376 Activity:high
12/21   Does anyone really believe this?
        http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/12/21/drug.imports.ap/index.html
        "Report: Drug imports safe or cheap -- not both"
        \_ Yes, and not because any administration says it.  It's basic
           economics and patent issues.
           \_ So why don't they say:
              "Report: Drug imports not possible because of patent issues"
              "Report: Drug imports not possible because of economic and
               patent issues"
              \_ Because the average person has the attention span of a gnat
                 and wouldn't pay attention long enough to understand.  Drug
                 Imports BAD.  This is the (correct) response to the equally
                 useless Drug Imports GOOD.
                 \_ Actually, I think it's because you'll lose votes if
                    you tell it like it is.  "We're trying to protect you"
                    sounds a lot better than "We're protecting U.S. drug
                    companies' IP rights".
        \_ No. There is no need to re-inspect everything coming from Canada.
           We can save lots of money just by trusting the Canadian FDA
           equivalent to do the work for us.
           \_ Except Canada has already said they won't be our drug store.
        \_ If drugs from Canada are not safe, then should we be seeing many
           sick or dead Canadians?  Or are we implying that the Americans
           are too fragile to take drugs from Canada?
           \_ Except Canada has already said they won't be our drug store.
2004/12/21 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35377 Activity:low
12/21   News coverage polls from pollingpoint:
        http://www.pollingpoint.com/results_111804.html
        Computer programmers get some deal of respect from people:
        http://www.pollingpoint.com/results_111004.html
        \_ The hell is with this sudden respect for farmers?  Is this some
           strange retro thing?
           \_ same people who voted for George W. Bush. 51% of them. Go figure
           \_ What the hell is this sentence fragment?
2004/12/21 [Transportation/Car] UID:35378 Activity:high
12/21   motd LAliens, where are the huge traffic hotspots in LA?  I'm driving
        from San Diego to Santa Ana, and I want to avoid getting stuck in the
        I-5 parking lot.
        \_ there are no easy way.  You are stuck with 405, your best bet is
           get onto 5 then 55 and get off near 22.  Don't get *ONTO* 22, it
           will kill you.  Get off 55 and take local streets.
        \_ Avoid the freeways.  It's Christmas.  You are fucked, my friend.
             -- ilyas
           \_ Um, thanks, but subhelpful.  Is it faster to take 5 to 55 or
              go 5 to 405 to 55?
              \_ Honestly, it's all bad.  What do you want me to say?  There
                 is no solution. -- ilyas
              \_ never, never, NEVER go on the 405. ever.
                \_ or if you do, check sigalert. unless it's ALL green
                   don't go on it.
                 \_ Specifically, don't go from OC->LA between 7-10am
                    Don't go from LA->OC between 4pm-7pm.
              \_ You forgot to prepend "the" to all the freeway numbers.
           \_ why do you hate LA? Why don't you move out of LA if you hate
              it so much? Have you tried applying to MIT and Stanford?
              \_ Why do you hate America? -- ilyas
                 \_ It's one thing to be a libertarian who wants to cut all
                    government programs yet lives off of government money,
                    and to hate liberals but live and live in one of the most
                    liberal places in America, and to hate California but
                    live off of their public education system, and to hate
                    SoCal, but live right in its heart, but DO WE HAVE TO
                    FUCKING HEAR ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME??????!!! Seriously,
                    buy a lot of automatic rifles, move to Idaho and start
                    your own cash-only business and get it over with.
                    \_ You must lose a lot of sleep over reaping the benefits
                       from all those broken treaties with the Indians, which
                       you surely strongly disagree with.  You should move to
                       Europe... wait you can't do that, it's build on
                       past and present injustice too.  I think moving to Mars
                       and starting fresh may be the only answer for you.
                         -- ilyas
                       \_ Well, that or asking you to stop whining incessantly.
                          \_ Dude.  I told him LA freeways are bad around
                             Christmas.  Which they are.  It ain't whining,
                             it's the truth.  Get head out of ass. -- ilyas
        \_ Just check http://sigalert.com at the times you'll be driving.
           You'll be fine if you come between 11am and 3pm, or after 8pm.
           \_ This is a big help, thank you. -op
              \_ op, would you mind posting your driving experiences later?
                 I am curious. -- ilyas
                 \_ Will do.  Look for it on Monday evening or Tuesday.
2004/12/21 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:35379 Activity:very high
12/21   Hey, chicom troll: is it just me, or was "Hero" a huge propaganda
        push for the reunification of China?
        \_ John, stop using racist slur.  we all know what that "chi" in
           chicom stands for.
        \_ "reunification" imply china ever not unify.  This is lie of
           USA diplomacy.
           \_ Oh christ. My granny could spoof chicom troll better than you.
              \_ typical arogant USA troll. I like to see you spoff chicom
                 trol better!
        \_ whta's chicom?
           \_ Not sure. I once posted a quote from the Simpsons and some
              anon. motd coward accused me of being chicom.
           \_ Chinese communism? *shrug*
              \_no, OP meant "Chink Communist"
           \_ http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chicom
        \_ Isn't that what the fuck we are doing to Iraq? You fuckhead?
        \_ China's propaganda machine pales in comparison to what
           BushCo tells to the Iraqi people. You want to hear what real
           propaganda is like? Go to Iraq and see what the US is
           capable of. And shut the fuck up.
        \_ I don't know who to believe, chicom troll or capitalist
           scumbag...  neither is better than the other. China has
           Mao, US has Cheney/Rumsfeld. Evil is what evil does. At
           least Mao led China to independence from western aggression
           and tells the world don't fuck with us. What the fuck has
           Cheney and Romsfeld done other than pocketing billions from
           the Iraq war and fucked California during the energy
           crisis? The US has sunk to a new low and all the while you
           are still chewing out chicom troll jokes? You are hopeless.
           \_ Haha, you are my hero! -- ilyas
           \_ Mao told the world don't fuck with the Chinese because he's
              fucking them himself.
              \_ Yeah, just like how the US fucked millions of
                 native americans, but its ok when WE do it because
                 we got bigger guns!!
                 \_ What's the casualty during the Cultural Revolution?  How
                    did Cheney and Rumsfeld fucked millions of native
                    Americans?  (Not that I like Cheney or Rumsfeld, but they
                    were compared to Mao above.)
                    \_ http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/marerror.htm
                        Mao: Great Leap Forward   1959  25.6M
                        Mao: Cultural Revolution  1965  1.1M
                        Gulf War                  1991  .08M
                        \_ This is as accurate as some site claiming US killed
                           billions of native americans.
                    \_ Iraq war casualty is about 1K U.S. + 15K Iraqi = .02M
                \_ Mao: Let's kill our own people for our future
                   Bush: Let's kill everyone else for our future
                   Seriously, I don't know what is worse...
                   \_ Both are bad, but I think the former is worse.  A
                      country's leader is supposed to put his/her countrymen's
                      interest before people of other countries.
                        \_ you are, of course, speaking from the perspective
                           of a narrowminded American. Switch Bush/Mao and
                           see if your statement is still valid in the
                           perspective of the mass.
                \_ how many chinese would there be (given birthrates)
                   if mao hadn't eliminated 30 million?
        \_ You must be Taiwanese and believe all the lies the
           Taiwanese media says about China.
2004/12/21 [Computer/SW/OS/VM] UID:35380 Activity:kinda low
12/21   What are some core differences between a simulator, an emulator, and
        a virtual machine?
        \_ Simulator:  Model the whole thing by itself; collect results.
           Emulator:  Model one part; hook it up to something else.
             Or, run one OS on another OS.
           Virtual machine:  A computer inside a computer.
             Or, a VM like the Java VM.
        \_ Simulator: Models something by mimicry.
           Emulator: Interprets instructions for one architecture to another.
           Virtual machine: A pretty generic term.  There's VM in the sense
             of Java VMs (which represents a virtual hardware architecture)
             or in the VMware sense, in which most instructions aren't
             interpreted).
           \_ so the Crusoe chip (on-demand translation of x86 instruction set
              to another) is... emulation? What about VMWare, is that also
              emulation? What about simulators, what are some well known and
              commonly used simulators out there? Does VirtualPC (for Macs)
              count as simulator because you're not doing emulation?
              \_ VMware is partly emulation (for the virtual devices) but
                 for the most part is virtualization.  VirtualPC for Macs is
                 an emulator; it's interpreting x86 binaries.  Won't comment
                 on the Crusoe.
        \_ What's the context?
        \_ In some contexts, a simulator processes the simulation of an actual
           design, while an emulator accomplishes the same result at a higher
           level. A VM is a software computer environment for a program (a
           computer implemented as a program that runs on another computer).
2004/12/21 [Uncategorized] UID:35381 Activity:nil
12/21   So how 'bout that memo.  Few bad apples, huh?  All the way up to
        Rummy.  Possibly even by Executive Order.
        \_ ???
           \_ Maybe this?
              http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4116601.stm
           \_ I think he's trying to troll the sentence fragment guy.
        \_ The hell?
2004/12/21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:35382 Activity:high
12/21   Funny how my mind works.  NYTimes headline "Blast Kills at Least 24 at
        U.S. Base in Iraq" I read as "Bush Kills at Least 24..."
        \_ omgwtfw00t!
        \_ Yeah!!
        \_ Bush killed over 1000+ servicement, 15000 Iraqis, and the world
           credibility and trust of US.
2004/12/21-22 [Recreation/Dating] UID:35383 Activity:high
12/21   What's a good Christmas present to get a girl that you've just started
        to date but wouldn't call your girlfriend? Yes, we've slept together.
        Also, I want to keep the relationship where it is (no title) for as
        long as possible.
        \_ Perfume.
           \_ Good idea. Also lingerie and big rubber dildos. Anything
              more personal and you are getting into gf territory.
        \_ _He's Just Not That Into You_, http://Amazon.com.
           \_ Thanks! Seems kinda interesting, but I don't want to get
              dumped.
              \_ don't flatter yourself.  you can only get dumped if you are
                 going out with her.
        \_ Something goofy and fairly cheap that fits them.  Perfume is lame.
           \_ Show you pay attention.  My girlfriend gets cold all the time, so
              I got her cozy gloves.
              \_ http://www.funnypop.com/jokes/joke/j2643j5.html
           \_ Perfume is not lame. Women dig bath products, cosmetics, and
              perfumes/scents/oils. Goofy and fairly cheap will mean he
              never screws her again. Get her something that makes her
              feel sexy. Yes, perfume makes women feel sexy.
              \_ Perfume says: "you fucking stink, woman!" Really, jewelry is
                 the only safe bet.
                 \_ Jewelry this early in a relationship, especially when
                    you want to stay casual?  Surely you jest.  You don't
                    want a gift that says you're serious; you don't want a
                    gift that says you've been paying attention to her needs;
                    you want a gift that says you care enough to spend 5
                    minutes flirting with the chick at the perfume counter.
                    \_ They what do you suggest, Don Juan?  A vacuum cleaner?
                       \_ You need to work on your reading comprehension.
        \_ Bragging on soda the fact that you fucked her but she's not your
           gf?
           \_ This is soda. He's lying.
              \_ give him some credit.  he might be telling the truth, and
                 the woman might be over 200 pounds.
        \_ Depends on whether she also wants to keep the relationship where it
           is, or she wants to promote to gf status.
        \_ so what's her title, booty call girl? sex buddy?
           \_ Dude, it's called friend with benefit.
              \_ in my era, we called that "special friend"
        \_ How about paying the tab for her services? I'm sure she'd appreciate
           that, her pimp is getting antsy.
         \-The Original Thighmaster Gold
        \_ buy her a professional massage lesson.
2004/12/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35384 Activity:moderate
12/21   Protest GWB's inauguration, please join and help out, YOU
        can make a difference!
        Orig story: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,142235,00.html
        http://www.turnyourbackonbush.org
        http://www.internationalanswer.org
        http://www.codepink4peace.org
        http://www.dawndc.net
        http://www.counter-inaugural.org
        http://www.globalizethis.org
        http://www.commondreams.org/news2003/1021-01.htm
        \_ you know there was a time in history when protestors would
           gather at say, Woodstock or Berkeley and make big noise
           with songs, dances, drugs, and riots, and they would be on
           prime-time news. I'm sad to say this but the new apathetic
           materialistic and often ignorant student body of Gen Y at
           Cal is failing to live up to traditions.
2004/12/21 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:35385 Activity:high
12/21   http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa/12/21/sudan.darfur.dead
        If the US wants to bring Democracy to the world, why isn't it
        helping Darfur? 70,000 dead is... more than we killed the Iraqis.
        \_ If those 70,000 dead bodies could be converted into 200 Billion
           barrels of oil, we'd be there in a flash!
        \_ USA never cared about democracy.  We talked about it, but it's
           always our imperial interest that comes first.
           We are also racist in heart.  It's unfortunate, because Darfur
           would be a perfect opportunities to wage propaganda war countering
           Osama Bin Ladin's rhetroic, casting doubt on Osama's claim that
           Arabs are under siege.
2004/12/21-22 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:35386 Activity:moderate
12/21   Dating advice for the week: DO NOT eat Edamame beans at the Japanese
        restaurant! I had so much gas I farted several times. I don't think
        I'm gonna see her again. ARGGGGG.
        \_ You should learn the art of holding it.
           \_ Or the art of letting it out silently.
        \_ say "Please excuse me, I have to go to the Men's room"
        \_ HAHA, that's hilarious. thanks for the advice, too!
        \_ A likely story.  It takes hours for farts to develop from eating soybeans.
           You're probably just flatulent in general.
           \_ He may be flatulent but you can't format properly. The penalty is
              death! 80 columns!
        \_ When I was in Japan, we ate edamame frequently, but only when
           out drinking beer. They were the standard bar with-beer snack. I
           think that the US appropriation as restaurant food is interesting.
           Maybe you've discovered why they aren't restaurant food in Japan.
           <snicker>
2004/12/21 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:35387 Activity:nil 66%like:36585
12/21   Bush Supporters:  I am just curious.  What is our exit strategy
        on Iraq?
        \_ troll
        \_ huh? what is an "exit strategy?"  -Bush Supporter
        \_ You mean "cut and run"? That would be dishonorable and
           cowardly. We're going to fight as long as it takes.
           We have always been at war with Eurasia.
2004/12/21-22 [Transportation/Car] UID:35388 Activity:high
12/21   What exactly does it mean these days to say a certain car
        is American or Japanese or German or anything, seeing how most/all
        cars are built in another country (e.g. Mexico)? Does it simply
        mean that the engineers/designers are from that country or what?
        \_ No they aren't. A large amount of American cars are made in
           the US (Ford and many GM brands). Many German cars are made
           in either Germany or another Euro country. Even some Japanese
           cars are made in the US. All (100%) Toyota Corolla and Tacoma
           trucks are made in Fremont. Even the ones shipped to Japan
           and other worldwide buyers.
           \_ Subaru also manufactures many of its cars in the US (Indiana).
        \_ Yes, it means the engineers and management are from that country.
           Almost all of the designers are from the USA. BMW builds cars
           in South Africa and the US, but they are German cars built
           by a German company to German specifications.
           \_ so do American cars use metric measurements, with metric
              bolt (17mm, 19mm, etc) vs. 3/8", 1/2" bolts? I know my Kawasaki
              Ninja uses the metric system.
              \_ No, American cars use English measurements. Duh!
                 \_ And the English use...
                 \_ Actually American cars use a combination of both
                    (ex. 5 Liter V8) as do British cars.
                    \_ The 5 Liter V8 is also called a 350; there's nothing
                       inherently metric about it, that's just a way of
                       referring to the displacement.  -tom
                        \_ Right, it doesn't matter until things don't fit/
                           work together.  Why oh why the US hasn't switched
                           over ... "If it ain't broke, don't fit it" ... but
                           it is broken!
                           \_ I think it's totally stupid that we're not using
                              metric units, but you can't use the way
                              displacement is reported as an argument.
                              Everything fits into a tub of water.  -tom
                           \_ it's kind of hard to get a feeling of
                              a car's power in terms of Kilowatts and torques
                              in Newton/meter :p
                              \_ It's Newton-meter.
                        \_ That was just an example. Often the window
                           thickness is specified in mm, the radiator
                           capacity in liters, &c.
                           \_ The nuts and bolts are all (or almost all)
                              English-sized. This is what matters.
2017/11/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/24   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:December:21 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>