Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:November:29 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2004/11/29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:35103 Activity:insanely high
11/28   Who keeps killing the motd?
        \_ I did. I requested the person who selectively nuked my humour posts
           to explain his action. He not only responded defiantly with "because
           it is lame", he deleted my other posts. I warned him and now I will
           begin the 5 day nuke. Please respect my protest, and leave
           motd nuked. Thanks.                                     -humour gu
           \_ Everyone gets their shit deleted here.  Everyone.  The typical
              post rarely lasts more than an hour when there are a lot of
              people on the motd, and I've had posts dissapear in literally
              seconds.  Sometimes it's malice, sometimes it's boredom, and
              sometimes it's just an accident.  Either way, the only way
              to have your posts last is to write them in your own backup
              file and cut and paste them back in if they're deleted almost
              instantly.  If it's still deleted everytime, someone has more
              spare time than you and cares more and you just need to let
              it go.  What you're doing now really doesn't solve anything.
           \_ This is the most pathetic thing I've heard on the motd
              for a while now.  Please grow up.  If you really think it's
              worth sharing, either keep posting it here or find another
              forum that appreciates your humor.    -rollee
           \_ Respect my cornhole, you filthy bitch.  Piss off and die.  -John
           \_ if you do this, how are you any better than ilyas?
              \_ Because this guy is anonymous.
           \_ Well, now the only rational course of action is to nuke every
              so-called humor post.  You want scorched earth?  You got it.
           \_ Here in America son, we type "humor".
2004/11/29 [Uncategorized] UID:35104 Activity:nil
11/28   So what is TDA?
        \_ terabyte disk array
2004/11/29 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35105 Activity:nil
11/28   The first post-election analysis that makes sense:
        http://www.exile.ru/2004-November-13/moscow_babylon.html
        \_ Let's do a Stalin on the Reddies!
2004/11/29 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:35106 Activity:high
11/28   Hypothetical motd poll, which of the following is the worst
        100 fraudulently cast ballots:
        100 people not allowed to vote:
        Both are equally bad:
        \_ Hi ilyas!
           \_ Hahaha. No.
        \_ 100 morons voting legitimately.  -John
        \_ Whichever one is more likely to change the outcome.  This would
           probably be the 100 fake votes, because they'd all go one way, while
           the disenfranchised would have voted like individuals.
           \_ On what do you base your assertion that the fake votes would all
              go one way?  In any system where fraud is possible, wouldn't there
              be an equal temptation from both sides to engage in it?
              \_ Temptation, yes.  Opportunity, no.
        \_ There's a pretty good book on election shennanigans.  "Stealing
           Elections" by John Fund.  It's very non-partisan, has a lot of
           stories of voter fraud and such from both parties.
2004/11/29 [Politics/Domestic/911, Finance/Investment] UID:35107 Activity:nil
11/29   Hello petro-euro, goodbye petro-dollar: http://www.csua.org/u/a4w
        \_ who wrote that article, a publicist for Dreamworks?
           i'm sorry I can't take someone who writes about the burning
           girders of the wtc and the dollar seriously.
        \_ Aside from a hit to American prestige, I dont' see how this changes
           anything.  Exchange and interest rates are determined by the flow
           of goods and money, not the currencies they are denominated in.
           \_ Less reasons for other countries to prop up the dollar
              \_ If they were propping up the dollar to keep oil cheaper, they
                 were making oil more expensive when priced in their native
                 currency.  I don't buy it.
2004/11/29-30 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/HW/Printer] UID:35108 Activity:high
11/29   I haven't bought a PC in years.  How does the quality of Dell, Compaq
        and Gateway PCs compare?  That is, how long does a brandnew machine
        last until something breaks.  Any other major brands I missed?  I'm
        buying a low-end desktop.  Thanks for any info.
        \_ Other brands: Sony, HP, Micron (now "MPC"), eMachines.  Try CNET.
           \_ HP == Compaq, eMachines == Gateway.
              \_ They are still different "brands". i.e. at the least, the
                 cases are somewhat different at least for HP <-> Compaq.
                 Also I know the "HP" brand ones offer AMD but not sure
                 about Compaq. I have no idea what their marketing strategy
                 is though, if any. Having two brands competing in the same
                 exact market segments seems idiotic. Oh and apparently IBM
                 still produces desktop (business oriented) PCs.
        \_ You should just get a Dell if it's a desktop.  They are as good as
           anything else, and they're cheaper to configure.  All PC vendors
           use commodity hardware and re-use RMA parts, so there isn't much
           difference in reliability.  -tom
           \_ Dell uses nonstandard power supplies. If your psu fries and
              you want to replace it you're out of luck unless you hunt down
              a $20 conversion cable or spend a lot on a "real" dell PSU.
              The most standard "PC" out of the bunch is probably emachines,
              although the PSU is a micro they are still relatively easily
              obtained. Everything else (including the MB if you are so
              inclined) can easily be swapped out of these el cheapo machines.
              If you want to replace parts yourself consider
              getting a white box system from Fry's. -wiliamc
           \_ "cheaper to configure": this is not always true. There are also
              a couple other factors one might consider. One being that Dell
              has some proprietary differences for no good reason so e.g. you
              can't just go buy a power supply if the Dell one dies, you have
              to get a Dell-specific one. Another factor is others may have
              a design (case etc.) you like more. Another factor could be that
              Dell is Intel-only and this entails a price markup for the same
              performance.
              \_ Typically, Dell charges about half what the other major
                 vendors do for changing RAM, disk, video cards, etc, from
                 the base models.  I've never seen an example of things
                 going the other way.  Worrying about Intel vs. AMD is
                 strictly for the slashdot crowd, to 99% of users there's
                 no difference.  -tom
                 \_ I'm saying Intel generally costs more for the same
                    performance. Do you dispute that? Worrying about changing
                    a bunch of stuff is more a Slashdot thing IMO. HP appears
                    to offer a sufficient selection of ready-to-ship versions.
         \_ I should point out there was never a "Dude, you're getting an IBM!"
            ad.
            \_ But there was a "no one got fired for getting IBM" which is
               almost as bad, in a spineless corporate sort of way.
               \_ Appealing to business cowardice is kinda funny.  "Buy our
                  stuff or you might get fired!"
        \_ Thanks for all the tip so far.  I just saw the Gateway 3200S that
           has an Intel Celeron 2.66GHz.  Does anyone know roughly what clock
           rate of a Pentium 4 processor is a Celeron 2.66GHz equivalent to,
           performance-wise?  --- OP
           \_ The obvious response is "At what tasks?".  For general internet
              use it's plenty.  Probably pretty good for 3D games, but crappy
              for stuff that needs a big cache.
              \_ How about editing a huge Excel spreadsheet?  That's what my
                 wife does with my current PC.  Let's say there's a lot of RAM
                 and swapping is not a factor.  --- OP
                 \_ Just editing, you'll be fine.  Trying to do big operations
                    or computation is asking for pain.  That's just what cache
                    is best for.
2004/11/29 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:35109 Activity:high 66%like:35112
11/29   So what is TDA?  Why does it keep bring soda down?
        \_ http://now.cs.berkeley.edu/Td
           The TDA is filled with nice, old, slow 8GB disks.  The TDA isn't
           bringing soda down, soda is bringing soda down.  The issue with the
           TDA is that the hardware itself is not very reliable.  If it turns
           off, there is no guarantee that it will spin back up again,
           resulting in a catastrophic loss of the motd (well actually, I think
           the motd is on an internal disk, but without your home directories
           you may have a small issue actually logging in).  In short, TDA
           sucks and we're getting off of it. - jvarga
           \_ ^TDA^Yermom
        \_ It's a trinary digital assistant, 50% more powerful than a regular
           PDA.
        \_ Someone replied before and said it was a terabyte disk array.  Is
           that true?  If so, why do we still have measly 30 MB quotas?
           \_ Because 8GB disks * 4 disks = 32GB of fun for all ~2500
              hozers.  Type `df` and look at /home/* to see why you don't
              have huge quotas.  There *are* quota upgrades coming with
              new soda, so donate well! - jvarga
           \_ Uh, because it DOESN'T WORK and CRASHES SODA
           \_ wc /etc/passwd
              2906    6617  203836 /etc/passwd
              \_ we should each get at some where around 300MB.
           \_ So what's causing the instability? RAID driver?  Hardware?
              \_ ilyas
                 \_ I may destabilize soda for generations to come. -- ilyas
         \_ We should just replace the whole thing with a cheapo terrabyte
            IDE raid on a P4 3 gig or AMD equivalent. I built one for about
            $2500. We could each donate like $100 or more and get it done.
            -williamc
2004/11/29-30 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:35110 Activity:high 66%like:36477
11/29   Happy Birthday, geordan
        \_ Nice, nuking the motd in my name.  Fuck off and die. -geordan
           \_ geordan: responding to birthday greetings with invective
              since 1996. twink.
           \_ I never nuke the motd in the name of anyone except
              SWEET LADY JUSTICE. -- ilyas
              \_ He is like the Hand of God, #138.
                 \_ So does that mean kchang and mehlhaff are like Meatfucker?
                    (collecting human refuse) -- ilyas
                    \_ More like LOU Gunboat Diplomat and GCU It's Character
                       Forming.
                       \_ NEEEEEEEEEEEEERDDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSS!!!!!! --Ogre
                          \_ If you know wtf we were talking about, you were
                             the kind of ogre who got picked on in ogre
                             playgrounds by other bigger jock ogres.
           \_ Ilya was bragging about how motd nuking is an effective counter
              to post-nuking, so I baited him by nuking his post. -troll
                \_ BOTH of you are assholes in equal.
                   \_ As a CSUA member approaches the motd, the likelyhood that
                      he is an asshole approaches 1. [updated]
                      \_ So how does one 'approach' motd?  I mean, there really
                         is no spatial relationship to measure, and I can't
                         really think what exactly it is you're quantifying
                         to make this relationship.
                         \_ Proportion of time spent on motd-related activities
                            / time spent on the other waking hours things.
                      \_ likelihood
                         \_ =1
                   \_ Maybe you ALL are homosexuals.
                    \_ You are the ghay
                               \_ teh ghey
                \_ in the good 'ol days ALL suspected motd nukers are
                   squished. The new administration is ineffective and lame.
                   \_ Why do you hate America SO MUCH?
                   \_ All accused with no evidence motd nukers should be
                      squished. Good idea.
            \_ Are you Japanese?  Do you have any idea the effect nuking
               had on Japan?
2004/11/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:35111 Activity:high
11/29   The hunt for weapons of mass destruction related program activities in
        Iraq continues. 619 days and counting.
        \_ The flogging of a dead horse continues, 619 days and counting.
           \_ Well I still have not heard Republican spokesmen admit that the
              rationale for the war was a complete sham.
              \_ "everyone thought they were there" "we know he had them,
                 we sold it to him" "he intended to get them" blah blah
                 \_ But you don't hear "We were wrong.  We distorted the
                    evidence."
                    \_ Um, haven't you read the Duelfer report?  We were wrong,
                       without distorting evidence.
                       \_ Not to disagree with you, but the Senate report on
                          pre-war intelligence on Iraq blamed it all on the
                          "Intelligence Community" (CIA, NSA, DoE, FBI, etc.).
                          Sample:
                          Conclusion 2.  The IC did not accurately or
                          adequately explain to policymakers the uncertainties
                          behind the judgments in the Oct 2002 National
                          Intelligence Estimate.
           \_ Why is it a dead horse? Aren't we still in Iraq, killing
              civilians, losing troops and wasting American lives and
              money? Must suck to have the blood of 100,000 innocent
              civilians on your hands. I did everything I could to stop
              Bush, but because of idiots like you, America went to war.
              \_ This is patently absurd.  If you did everything you could to
                 stop Bush, why is he alive and you unincarcerated?
                 \_ Okay, I did everything I could within the law.
                    Pedantic bitch.
                    \_ I find your lack of resolve... disappointing.
        \_ "I wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons, and we've
           got an intelligence group together to figure out why.  But Saddam
           Hussein was a unique threat. And the world is better off without
           him in power. And my opponent's plans lead me to conclude that
           Saddam Hussein would still be in power, and the world would be more
           dangerous." -Dubya
                \_ The founding fathers would be happy to know that eventually
                   such a proficient orator is running the country they
                   started.
                   \_ Oh please.  Jefferson was terrible in public.
                      I think there's too much hero worship of the FFs
                      going on in the US.  They were intelligent men,
                      some were even great men, but not without rather
                      distasteful personal or functional flaws (like, you
                      know, everybody else). -- ilyas
                      \_ If you want to know why there is ilyas bashing,
                         this is a sample of what elicits it.
                         \_ ilyas bashing happens for the same reason
                            flamewars happen on the internet.  Lots of
                            bored people physically insulated from the
                            people they are spittling at.  Try to start
                            a flamewar, or 'bash' someone at a bar sometime,
                            tough guy.  -- ilyas
                            \_ the context of the original question was lost.
                               it is, paraphrased:  "Why ilyas-bashing more
                               than tom-bashing?"
2004/11/29-30 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:35112 Activity:moderate 66%like:35109
11/29   So what is TDA?  Why does it keep bringing soda down?
        \_ http://now.cs.berkeley.edu/Td
           The TDA is filled with nice, old, slow 8GB disks.  The TDA isn't
           bringing soda down, soda is bringing soda down.  The issue with the
           TDA is that the hardware itself is not very reliable.  If it turns
           off, there is no guarantee that it will spin back up again,
           resulting in a catastrophic loss of the motd (well actually, I think
           the motd is on an internal disk, but without your home directories
           you may have a small issue actually logging in).  In short, TDA
           sucks and we're getting off of it. - jvarga
           \_ ^TDA^Yermom
           \_ Has screwdriver experienced issues with TDA?
              \_ Screwdriver is running fibre channel disk, not TDA.
                 \_ Hail the Glorious new revolution!
        \_ It's a trinary digital assistant, 50% more powerful than a regular
           PDA.
        \_ Someone replied before and said it was a terabyte disk array.  Is
           that true?  If so, why do we still have measly 30 MB quotas?
           \_ As I replied to that thread, no, it stands for tertiary disk
              array.  -- njh
           \_ Because 8GB disks * 4 disks = 32GB of fun for all ~2500
              hozers.  Type `df` and look at /home/* to see why you don't
              have huge quotas.  There *are* quota upgrades coming with
              new soda, so donate well! - jvarga
              \_ I don't think I've ever seen an official upgrade proposal or
                 a request for donation.  Do you have a pointer to either?
                 \_ I could have sworn there was an official posting on
                    this... I'll look around or post again.  Soda is gettin
                    some dual P4 Xeon luvin (I have yet to figure out how to
                    get them to burn a hole in the machine room wall, but I am
                    definitely trying).  Ooodles of disk space and RAM come
                    with it too.  Depending on how our finances look (ASUCk
                    money, donations, etc), we are seriously considering
                    offloading mail handling to another machine (and putting
                    virus scanning into the mix to kill off some of that
                    pesky virus-laden mail).  We are also looking to give some
                    of the other servers face lifts (upgrades to somewhat
                    modern technology like motherboards without ISA slots like
                    a high-end PIII or something cheap).
                    Everyone will be getting some quota love... maybe up to
                    100-150MB (don't quote me on this, it isn't set in stone
                    yet because we don't know how much disk we can buy or
                    even what is considered reasonable).
                    I'd love to give official specs on what we are planning,
                    but those are changing because of finances. - jvarga
                    \_ I think everyone else on the motd has asked already,
                       but why dual Xeons?  It's a fine choice, apart from
                       the fact that it runs warmer, slower, and is more
                       expensive.
                       \_ We've all asked and have never been given an answer.
                          I think they pulled the choice out of their spleen
                          and have no satisfactory reason.
           \_ Uh, because it DOESN'T WORK and CRASHES SODA
              \_ Maybe that's because it was never designed to work with vinum.
                 \_ Are you talking straight out of your ass, or is it taking
                    a detour through your spleen?
           \_ wc /etc/passwd
              2906    6617  203836 /etc/passwd
              \_ we should each get at some where around 300MB.
              \_ Sure, if you can make 4 8GB disks add up to 1TB.
           \_ So what's causing the instability? RAID driver?  Hardware?
              \_ ilyas
                 \_ I may destabilize soda for generations to come. -- ilyas
                    \_ Nah, you'll go back on your medication eventually
                       \_ What's with all the hatin' on ilyas?  Isn't tom still
                          around and a good target for kicking?
              \_ Soda has just been crashing itself lately...no real idea why.
                 The resent *planned* shutdowns were to put bigger disk online.
                 \_ I believe that at a politburo meeting the politburo was
                    told exactly why it was crashing, from people who went thru
                    the crash dumps.  Basically, the OS is too old/broken.
                    \_ Well, yes, the OS is old and crufty, but that doesn't
                       explain why soda has been crashing.  And yes, I have
                       been going through the crash dumps --njh
         \_ We should just replace the whole thing with a cheapo terrabyte
            IDE raid on a P4 3 gig or AMD equivalent. I built one for about
            $2500. We could each donate like $100 or more and get it done.
            -williamc
            \_ Set up the paypal account, and I'll cough up a twenty.
               \_ There has been a paypal link on the csua web page for at
                  least a month now.
               \_ But what if williamc collects all the money and then escapes
                  into South America?
               \_ I'd like to know what the Politburo plans to do before I
                  cough up the dough.
                  \_ See above
        \_ TDA...Totally Dumb Acronym.
2004/11/29 [Computer/Networking] UID:35113 Activity:nil
11/29   The three macs (with OS X) connected to my linksys router just
        stopped getting internet access earlier today, while the freebsd
        box and pc connected to the same router can still connect without
        problems. Anyone have any ideas why? Nothing has been changed on
        the macs.
2004/11/29-30 [Politics/Domestic] UID:35114 Activity:insanely high
11/29   Powell's refusal to recognize the contested election result in Ukraine
        is true proof that irony is not dead.
        \_ 2000 U.S. election hijinks != Ukraine hijinks
           \_ Exit polls that don't match the final tally... hmm... where
              have we heard that?
               \_ EARLY exit polls in the US vs total exit polls in the Ukraine?
                  \_ And even if they were equivalent, what the hell did Powell
                     have to do with Florida?
        \_ I haven't been following this story too closely, but why does it
           matter what powell thinks? Will what he thinks become the
           official US stand on this election issue?
           \_ I believe the official US stand is the same as the Europeans: that
              new elections are needed.
        \_ Huh? No one else other than the Russian ruling elite and also
           the Russia's vassal states among the ex-Soviet republics has
           recognized the election results as legitimate. Even Putin now
           wishes he didn't said what he said right after the election.
2004/11/29-30 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:35115 Activity:low
11/29   I archived a big direcotry (3GB) using tar with bzip2 compression (-j)
        and I notice that to extract any file, tar seems to read through
        the whole archive decompressing it byte by byte and takes a VERY long
        time, no matter how small that file is.  Is there a better archive
        method?  (I am archiving on to a file, so dump does not work.)
        \_ Use zip.  The compression isn't as good, but you can access any
           file instantly.
           \_ I need good compression but I won't add files to the archive,
              so a tool that puts all the directory information at one place,
              compress the files individually and allow random access is what
              I am looking for.  (And it has to be available for Macs too.)
                \_ Why don't you just run bzip2 on foreach i ( * )?  -John
        \_ Perhaps RAR, http://www.rarlab.com Not free, though.
        \_ 3GB is not that much. Burn it on a DVD.
2017/09/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/21    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:November:29 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>