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| 2004/11/23 [Finance/Investment] UID:35029 Activity:nil |
11/22 Germany, Japan or the US Stock market?
http://csua.org/u/a2x |
| 2004/11/23 [Recreation/Dating] UID:35030 Activity:kinda low |
11/22 Playing World of Warcraft? Want to quest with other CSUA hosers?
Drop me a line. -geordan
\_ got laid off? have too much time?
\_ or: want to get laid off? want to have no time?
\_ want to get laid? don't play video games!
\_ I think geordan gets laid plenty.
\_ I have yermom to thank for that -geordan |
| 2004/11/23 [Uncategorized] UID:35031 Activity:moderate |
11/23 This explains quite a bit:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/login.aspx?ci=14107
\_ well, duh! |
| 2004/11/23 [Computer/SW/WWW/Server, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:35032 Activity:nil |
11/23 The CSUA webserver is down
\_ works for me as of 8:56am. --twohey
\_ I just restarted it. To the original poster, could you
please mail root when you notice things are broken? --mconst
\_ Now works for me as well. (It didn't about 10 minutes ago.) |
| 2004/11/23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:35033 Activity:nil |
11/23 What's the point of voting in Iraq when the ethnic minority
Iraqis will never get a chance to win in the first place?
\_ What was the point of voting in the US even though the minorities
never had a chance to elect a non-white candidate?
\_ The up coming election is for the Iraqi version of congressmen. |
| 2004/11/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35034 Activity:high |
11/23 http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/23/hunters.killed/index.html the 6th shooter dies from the hunting incident. That's 6 less Republicans voting for Jeb Bush in 2008. \_ Wow, you're really funny. Do you enjoy hearing about the death of people and making off-topic jokes like that? Oh wait, anyone who doesn't conform to your concept of normality HAS to be a Republican. I forgot about that. \_ Turns out shooter is Hmong, arrrived in US at age of 16, and is a US Army Vet (possibly Desert Storm). It's almost certainly going to end up a Post Traumatic Stress Disorder case. \- Did Vang have an Vang barrel on his gun? --psb \_ Army of One \-http://www.cafepress.com/ipa_politics.14699021?zoom=yes#zoom \_ I'm glad you liberals like to compare Bush to Hitler When I see that count fly past the population of Britain, I wonder if the UK would like doubling its populuation with all you blue nuts. |
| 2004/11/23 [Computer/SW/Virus] UID:35035 Activity:nil |
11/23 For the guy who was asking about anti-spyware programs:
http://spywarewarrior.com/asw-test-guide.htm -John |
| 2004/11/23 [Computer/Networking] UID:35036 Activity:high |
11/22 http://j-walk.com/other/wifispray WIFI Spray Increases Speed/Range \_ HAhAhAha! I love the spanish quote. Great customer feedback, makes me want to go out and get some right now. \_ Ay! No me gusta! - Senor Abejorro |
| 2004/11/23 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:35037 Activity:high |
11/32 Does anyone here actually object to changing the constitution to allow
naturalized U.S. citizens to run for president? If so, why? It seems
to me that "I don't want Arnie to be president" is a pretty bad
reason.
\_ I am a neocon, I got signatures for Arnold, and I am naturalized
citizen (when I was 10), and I oppose changing it. I dread the
idea of a nut like Soros becoming President.
\_ it's not like we can't snipe any one we dont want..
\_ I don't object to the concept, I just don't trust that this isn't
just demagoguery. If it does happen, I'd like it to be a drawn
out process so that I can see other people's ideas about the pros
and cons of this amendment. I don't think it should be rushed
through for the next election.
\_ Well, I object to changing it just so we can get a popular
president. -republican
\_ Aren't conservatives supposed to fear change and revere the wisdom
of the founding fathers? Or is that only when it's convenient?
\_ I'm a liberal. I was basically posting this to challenge other
liberals who would be tempted to oppose this because of
Arnold rather than based on what's right. -op
\_ How about this: the position of President is so important that
there should be no question about the President's ultimate
national loyalty.
\_ Are you just trying to pose a possible reason or do you
actually believe that?
\_ There is a difference between constitutional change via the
amendment process and change via interpretation by the court
system.
\_ Naturalized for twenty years sounds almost reasonable. Perhaps
25 or 30 would be better, though.
\- i think age of naturalization is also a relevant factor.
there is a difference between 20yr old immigrant who has
live here for 45yrs and a 1 yr old immigrant who has lived
here for 45 yrs. --immigrant
\_ Good! I would specifically set the age of naturalization at
not later than 35 years and 4 months.
\_ A related question, does anyone also object the removal of this
restriction for senators? Why or why not? If a naturalized
foreigner is allowed to run for president, I don't see why they
shouldn't be allowed to run for a senate seats. |
| 2004/11/23 [Consumer/Audio] UID:35038 Activity:nil 52%like:35044 |
11/23 Poll:
ipod: ..
ipod mini: .
non-ipod HD player: .
other mp3 player:
cd player which plays mp3s: .
PDA: ..
ghettoblaster: .
Soundwave! MORE THAN MEETS THE EEYYYE!!!: .......... |
| 2004/11/23 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:35039 Activity:high |
11/22 Asta la vista Rather!
\_ ITYM hasta.
\_ What do you mean? Nevermind, I'm going out to get a kesadeeya.
\- "I like the austrian way better" --psb |
| 2004/11/23 [Recreation/Humor] UID:35040 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto Edit_by:auto |
11/23 OK, this is seriously cool: http://www.cyphic.net/zoomquilt/zoom.htm \_ Alright, someone has to do a goat.cx version of this... \_ That's amazing! Thanks! \_ what's so cool about something zooming in and out forever, infinity? |
| 2004/11/23 [Academia/Berkeley, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:35041 Activity:high |
11/23 How do alumni losers score four (4) Rose Bowl tickets? Is there any
viable way other than staying on the phone on ticketmaster or buying
them off Cal season ticket holders / current students? I assume
they're going to be $120 a pop. Thanks in advance.
\_ I'm still tryig to understand this alumni football thing. Did
you like football as an undergrad also, or did you somehow get
brainwashed after graduation? -'98 alumnus who still hates football
\_ Season tickets were much easier to get when our team wasn't
as good. I got to watch Cal slap San Jose St 55-0.
-meyers, 96 alumnus who still likes football
\_ Yes, I liked Cal football when I was an undergrad. The band
was great. Mariucci was great for the year he was there.
Tien was great while he was alive. -op '97
\_ After all the things Tien did in his life before being
chancelor and after all the things he did for Berkeley,
I think it's pretty sad that alumni are remembering him
for his role as a cheerleader.
\_ I wasn't in school during Tien's reign but I think of him
fondly based on these stories, even the go beah
type. The only time Berdahl ever got involved in any
school-spirit related activity was when he threatened
arrest for the frat guys who stole the Axe. Fuck Berdahl.
Go Tien. Go Beah!
\_ they stole the tree costume, and one of those guys
has recently become a regular poster on http://bearinsider.com
\-i hate corrupt college sports but even i think this is
ridiculous. what is being acknowledged is tien's affection
for the instiution and the undergrad students. people
appreciate his non-aloofness compared to say ira michael
heyman. go beah! --psb
\_ Tien was the only UC chancellor/provost I've heard of
who made rounds of the libraries after midnight before
finals. His was a hell of an act to follow. -- ulysses
\- ROSEBUD! --psb
\_ I remember him for helping bring in shitloads of money.
- other alum
\_ That's a pretty cynical opinion. -op
\_ Had my heart broken by Bears in the 1990 Big Game, am finally
beginning to think they have a chance again. --erikred
\_ I still can't believe it, and I went to 3 home games. I
mean, I'm still waiting for it to all fall apart. It's hard
to get rid of that negative mentality after so many years
of teh suck.
\_ Now multiply by 7, and that's how the Red Sox fans felt.
\_ $120, heh. |
| 2004/11/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:35042 Activity:high |
11/23 Jeb Bush for 2008! Long Live the Bush Dynasty! -religious guy
\_ Fuck you. Seriously. Fuck you, fuck bush, and fuck jesus.
fuck all of you assholes. If you like jihad, why don't you
convert to islam, and move to Iran where you belong?
\_ jihad is already upon you.
\_ Congratulations, you've been trolled.
\_ Who censored the fuck jesus guy?
\_ restored.
\_ http://bushislord.com
\_ republican: good, democrat: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil |
| 2004/11/23 [Uncategorized] UID:35043 Activity:nil |
11/22 PSB and others who know history have got to love this billboard in
Florida: http://img12.paintedover.com/uploads/12/billboardsecond.jpg
\_ One country, one constitution, one future!
\_ The glorious revolution marches ever onward!
\-http://www.cafepress.com/ipa_politics.14487589?zoom=yes#zoom --psb |
| 2004/11/23 [Consumer/Audio] UID:35044 Activity:nil 52%like:35038 |
11/23 Poll:
ipod: ..
ipod mini: .
non-ipod HD player: ..
\_ iRiver 4 EVAH!
other mp3 player:
cd player which plays mp3s: .
PDA: ..
ghettoblaster: .
Soundwave! MORE THAN MEETS THE EEYYYE!!!: .......... |
| 2004/11/23 [Transportation/Car, Consumer/Audio] UID:35045 Activity:nil |
11/23 How well do those car FM transmitters work? Do you recommend
a particular brand? |
| 2004/11/23 [Uncategorized] UID:35046 Activity:high |
11/23 The question of the day is how long until spongebob squarepants is
caught in a Miami porn theatre.
\_ The question is how National Treasure was the highest grossing
film this past weekend.
\_ Because it's SOOOOOOO hard to make more money than
a spongebob squarepants.
\_ dude spongebob ruled.
\_ Did you see it? |
| 2004/11/23 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Reference/Military] UID:35047 Activity:insanely high |
11/23 Ok, right-wingers. Vang claims he was shot at first, and returned
fire as if his life were in danger. Given the repeated statements
of how eager you are to take the law into your own hands, how is
Vang's reaction any different than what you would have done?
\_ he is justified if true, he also assumed they had more
than one gun if they are hunters
\_ Actually in order to claim self-defense, he needs
to meet several requirements:
1. Did he create the situation?
2. Did he have an honest and actual belief that
there was a danger to his life?
3. Was his belief reasonable? [This test is tougher
than it looks]
4. Was the threat imminent?
5. Was his response appropriate?
If any of these questions are answered in the negative
then he doesn't get self defense. He may get imperfect
self defense, if he didn't create the situation, had
and honest and actual belief, but his belief was not
reasonable.
\_ Everyone agrees it is unreasonable and not totally
self-defense, but many people secretly wish they could
do what he did.
\_ And for that we have federal pound-me-in-the-ass
penitentiary.
\_ Quoth investigator report (via Reuters): "He fired back, hitting
the man who shot at him and then pursued the others, shooting them
and another couple who showed up later riding an all-terrain
vehicle..." It seems that whether or not the hunters fired the
first shot, Vang's claim to self-defense ended at some point
through the killings.
\_ Yeah, you think the rest of them wouldn't have "defended"
their dead friend if Vang just walked off?
\_ "...and then pursued the others, shooting them..."
\_ Let's try this again. A group of thugs shoots at you.
You decide to return fire and kill the one that shot
at you. What makes you think the others would not have
continued shooting at you?
\_ Uhh.. they were running away?
\_ Uhh.. they weren't all armed?
\_ Yes. The rest were hunting with their fists.
\_ Why don't you read the article?
\_ What article? Do I need to go to The Free
Republic and track it down?
\_ I'm just suggesting that maybe you should
read some articles about the subject we're
discussing, rather than just shooting your
mouth off.
\_ "shooting" my mouth off, eh? You are
a funny guy.
\_ Wow. According to the sheriff's report, there
was only one firearm amongst those that were shot.
Those lying sheriff bastards! Obviously it was
all a conspiracy! Well, that or you're a
blithering idiot.
\_ By the time the sheriff got there, the other
hunters had hidden the rest of their guns,
some of which might not have been legal to
own. It would make for a nicer story too,
if that damn gook shot and killed a bunch
of unarmed white christian males.
\_ The sheriff in a white southern county
is just going to lie to cover up for
high school drinking buddies. Especially
over some dink.
\_ I think my theory about you being a
blithering idiot is far more likely.
\_ Well, WI is south of Canada. - !pp
\_ OK, let's take this real slow now. The rest of the
hunters were running away, and Vang pursued them and
then shot them (as in it's kind of difficult to pursue
someone who's standing and fighting). Bye bye self-
defense.
\_ Depends on what happened. If they attacked
Vang and he fought back, then pursued them
b/c he was afraid they would come back and
kill him, he has a valid self defense argument.
Most juries in this country don't really care
if you over-react (see Gotez from NY in 86).
\_ maybe they just want to spread out into the woods
and then hunt Vang down. Also who knows
what firearms they carry in their ATV.
\_ Do you get your tin foil hats cheaper when you
join the tin foil hat of the month club?
\_ they fired the first shot. once that
happened you cannot assume those people
are sane.
\_ In this country, for a crime to be committed
you have to be able to prove intent (in
this case, only provable in the case of the
first guy since he's the only one that
shot). Ability (which is clearly lacking
since only one was armed when Vang started
shooting), and an attempt to commit a crime
(which is really fucking hard to prove if
they're all running away being chased by a
gun-toting maniac).
\_ Err ... we are arguing whether he is
acting in the belief that he needs
to defend himself, not whether a
crime has been committed. Remember
the Halloween case where a Japanese
exchange student was killed because
the shooter thought he was a threat?
\_ Yes and no. The case can be argued
for the first (alleged) shooter. But
in the absence of wrongdoing on the
part of the others, proving that he
had self-defense as a motivator is not
very likely to carry much water.
\_ Actually, the question is not whether
Vang believes he needs to defend
himself, but rather whether Vang can
*reasonably* believe he needs to
defend himself.
\_ White person shoots unarmed Asian:
reasonable.
Asian guy shoots armed White guy:
not reasonable.
Any questions?
\_ Yes. How does it feel
having your head up your
butt 24/7?
\_ Do you really think it will
be any other way? Even if
Vang really was justified
and if it was totally
self-defense, it won't
matter. The jury of his
peers will be white, and
they're just going to see
him as some slant-eyed
murderer.
\_ Yeah, ok. Does your hat use the heavy
foil or the light foil? I assume the
heavy foil offers better protection but the
light is more comfortable.
\_ but he was called names...
\_ Nice troll.
\_ Don't ilyas my thread.
\_ It should be easy to verify that the hunter fired a shot. Has
that been verified?
\_ How would that be easy to verify? Ask the dead witnesses?
\_ First, there is a live witness. Second, it's easy to tell
if a gun was fired. There should be a round or pellets or
something evident.
\_ I'm still trying to figure out how the presence of
a round or pellets will determine who shot first.
\_ I want to know if he fired *AT ALL*. Has this been
verified?
\_ The US Army trained its soldier well.
\_ California National Guard. Man, theyshould send this guy to
Iraq, instead of hunting deer and white folks, hunt Al Qaidans.
\_ Can't we just ignore facts and assume what probably happened:
Vang was ticked, the white people didn't shoot first but shot
off their mouths, then Vang killed all the white people.
\_ It was private property. So really the correct rendition
is he was trespassing, the may have impolitely asked him
to leave, he lost it and murdered them.
\_ How do you "politely" ask someone to leave after you've
shot at them? Vang was already on his way out. The
property was also adjacent to public property, and the
property line wasn't marked.
\_ Someone might have shot into the air. Like the old
"git off my property" hillbilly stereotype.
\_ So someone tells you to leave their private property,
and as you're calmly walking away trying to ignore
their racial slurs, one of them shoots their gun.
Vang, realistically, acted to defend himself.
\_ Let's say someone shot at Vang, Vang blew him away, other guys
started coming, Vang thought they were coming to nail him, Vang
nailed them first, all their guns were hidden, Vang didn't chase
anyone down. Anyways, I still believe the Vang got ticked and
anyone down. Anyways, I still believe that Vang got ticked and
shot everyone theory more.
\_ Hello armchair judges. Here's the fact. The outcome of the
Vang trial has nothing to do with evidence and facts. It has
everything to do with the jury and how the cops conducted
their search. The OJ trial proved just that.
\_ So is the jury all going to be Hmong and they'll find that the
sheriff made racist remarks about Hmong on tape and Vang will
go free and say he's looking for the real killer with every
deer he shewts?
\_ They were running away to get their guns, so Vang has to cut
them down before they got more guns and more people. Shit,
he killed one, but then they called for help and he sees a
another vehicles with a bunch of reinforcements, what is he
supposed to do? He's outnumbered at least 10 to 1, like
Rambo, the man.
\_ "Shot for vagrancy in Jerkwater, USA..."
\_ "But the man kept pushing Sir...They drew first blood,not me."
\_ Those other hunters should have joined a server with
Friendly Fire off!
\_ link:www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/10255877.htm?1c
for a MUCH MORE detailed police report
\_ Wow, this IS detailed. Thanks!
\_ How stupid can you get?
(1) 15 people in the hunting party but they only brought one
gun...are they going to share it or something?
They are either very stupid or lying.
(2) Though unarmed, they start name-calling
"chink,gook,fucking asian" to this guy holding
a semi-automatic rifle. Uh. That's really smart. Duh.
(3) Call more of your idiotic, unarmed ATV-riding friends
on the radio, so they can come by to escalate the situation
and make Vang even more scared and reactionary
Conclusion: white "hunters" deserved to die for being stupid
but Vang is the idiot who will have to go to jail for falling
into their stupid trap.
This is what happened: they see Vang on the platform, they call
up to him: "hey you fucking chink, get out of our tree. You
damn gooks are always trespassing". Then they radio their white
friends, tell them to come over immediately because "we caught
a chinaman on our property." Then the rest of the mob arrives,
surrounds Vang, starts screaming, yelling, cursing at
him saying: "fucking kick your ass, gook", "you fucking chink",
"get the fuck off our property before we fuck you up, chinaman"
Now Vang, being a Man, who has Pride, doesn't get off the
property "fast enough", so white-hunter fires a warning shot
at him. Vang, who is already pissed because (1) he didn't get to
hunt (2) they call him racial slurs (3) they have him outnumbered
(4) his pride is hurt (5) he's been wronged so many times in the
past and just swallowed his pride, and now (6) his life is in
real danger, lashes out and fires like a real soldier and hunter.
Then a 2nd wave of even more shitheads show up on ATVs which
just escalate the danger, he's outnumbered 15-to-1 by
racist whites, who are hunters who would reasonably have
guns, who have threatened him, so he defends himself
(defend in military/moral/emotional, but not legal-sense)
And he at least got some hunting done for the day.
\_ What the fuck?
\_ right.. the poor minority victim was called bad names. Too
bad there is no death penalty in Wi, the taxpayers will have
pay for housing this asshole. All of the facts - deer stand,
scope, number of shots, position of victims, ammunition,
etc. - indicate this guy flipped.
\_ Read the http://twincities.com link. Use http://bugmenot.com for password.
\_ We should let Ilya torture him to death. That'd teach him!
\_ Lucky this guy have a gun. Otherwise he would probably be
beaten to death like Vincent Chin.
\_ This guy lives the pro-gun dream, defending himself against
the odds with his rifle, and the motd right-wing turns on him.
It's shameful. |
| 2004/11/23 [Uncategorized] UID:35048 Activity:nil |
11/23 Quick MOTD poll:
Yay! Tofurkey!:
Tofurkey--A Crime Against Nature: ...
To-Whatever:
Turduckin: . |
| 2004/11/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:35049 Activity:high |
11/23 Ukraine to go FOOM!
"Tens of thousands of opposition supporters surrounded Ukraine's
presidential offices after their pro-Western leader declared himself
president ... Official ballot counts so far show 54-year-old
Yanukovich won 49.39 percent of the vote compared with Yushchenko's
46.71 percent, with 99.48 percent of polling stations reporting. Most
independent exit polls handed victory to Yushchenko, but some of those
commissioned by Yanukovich's team showed the prime minister as the
winner."
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/041123/1/3or3z.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6032-2004Nov22.html
\_ Doesn't Ukraine have some number of nukular weapons?
\_ http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/ukraine
\_ Why didn't Al Gore do that?
\_ I. JUST. DON'T. KNOW. More importantly, it speaks volumes as to
how little we believed in Kerry's chances of actually winning.
\_ No Bush minions tried to kill Gore by poisoning him before the
election. No massive formerly imperial neighboring country
making massive amounts of pressure. No criminal conviction of
winning candidate. No massive government corruption. Among
other things. -John
\_ I have been following this saga since the beginning (and was rooting
for the opposition candidate) but I still can't find an answer to
this question: What evidence of vote rigging does Mr. Yuschenko
and all those outraged European and American election monitors
have other than that some of the exit polls don't match the official
results too well? |
| 2004/11/23-24 [Reference/Law/Court] UID:35051 Activity:very high |
11/23 How do you prove who shot the gun first, and if you can't prove it,
how do you convince an all white jury to believe Vang? My guess is
that this is going to be a he-says-she-says court and Vang is going
to lose, easy as that.
\_ http://latimes.com now has a good article. Vang speaks excellent English
and waived his right to a lawyer in making his http://twincities.com
remarks. I believe it will become clear who fired first, but ALL
the shootings will still be at least 2nd degree or manslaughter.
Vang never said he felt in danger for his life; he was probably
pissed as hell. The legal reaction would have been to not do
anything in response to the guy trying to scare you by firing a
bullet near you, and file a complaint which would be subsequently
ignored.
anything in response to the guy trying to put the fear of God into
you by firing a bullet near you, and file a complaint which would be
subsequently ignored.
\_ Uhm, no. If you get shot at, you have a right to fire back.
In fact, you don't even have to be shot at to have a have
a justification to shoot first if your life is in danger.
Vang's problem is that he shot and killed half a dozen people.
I don't know if anybody can reconcile that with reasonable
force. The best he can hope for is manslaughter, as he may
be able to prove he lacked the mens rea for first degree and
he was provoked to such an extent that he had a reasonable
heat of passion response. If he lacks mens rea and cannot
reasonably prove heat of passion killing then he'll get
2nd degree. 2nd degree is like 25 years, so he'll be in
prison a long, long, long time.
\_ We are arguing about the guy he shot first, right, because
it sounds like you are repeating my position for everything
else. Anyways, the jury will be talking about
how Vang had the time, after he was shot at, to take the
scope off his rifle, aim, and shoot. I do not see him
talking about how he felt his life was in danger at all
in the http://twincities.com statement; actually, I think the jury
will think he was pissed as hell with his first shot and
subsequent ones. C'mon, Vang was talking about how
one guy was calling him "gook, chink, fucking Asian", not
how he was in mortal fear. He even managed a taunt of,
"You're not dead yet?" to one guy and shot at him again.
\_ I bet most of the white men are more surprised that a slanty
four eye Oriental chink can actually see and shoot his targets
more so than the fact that 6 men got killed.
\_ look, it's just like the OJ case. Most of the Mid-west
white ppl think Vang is guilty regardless of evidence, and
most of the Asians think he may or may not be guilty,
regardless of evidence. It is as easy as that.
\_ I think Bernhard Goetz is the better comparison here.
I'm interested to see how various pundits (read partisan hacks)
handle this and compare with the Subway Vigilante.
\_ I have to say Vang reminds me of tpc. The guy has quite a gun
collection and is not the most mentally stable guy I know
-guy who knew tpc when he was still kind of sane |
| 3/15 |