Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:November:05 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/11/5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:34689 Activity:moderate
11/5    Arafat on machines, in "reversible coma" (from his spokesman)
        \_ One interesting conspiracy theory I heard from an israeli friend
           of mine is that Arafat is actually dead, but is instead being
           'slowly phased out,' to prevent Palestinian infighting. -- ilyas
           \_ Wouldn't you also need to slowly phase someone else in?
              \_ Could be a power struggle behind the scenes right now.
           \_ I don't think that's much of a conspiracy, I think it's
              pretty obviously what they're doing.
           \_ That could be true, but totally unrelated to any conspiracy
              theory. They publicly said that he wouldn't be pronounced
              dead until they determine a burial site, since religious
              rules dictate that he needs to be buried within 48 hours
              of his death. So they might very well delay the announcement
              of his death.
              \_ Rumors of my death have been greatly enumerated.
           \_ check out this world tribune article:
              \_ The Swiss win again!
                \_ Damn straight.  Now where'd I put those gold teeth?  -John
2004/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34690 Activity:kinda low
11/5    Do people think Rumsfeld/Ashcroft will resign for "personal"/"health"
        reasons?  If anyone in the administration has half a brain, that'd be
        a pretty easy way to sacrifice two of the bigger fuckups as a bit
        of a sop to the opposition.  -John
        \_ Ashcroft is going to resign because he's not well.  He's publicly
           known to have already had at least 1 surgery recently.  I forget
           exactly for what but I remember it wasn't some minor BS.  I don't
           think Rumsfeld is going anywhere too soon.
        \_ Best Ashcroft poster ever, seen in a co-op:  8x10 glossy of Ashcroft
           with a speach bubble "I'm watching you" beneath which someone else
           has written "POOP!"
        \_ Why would Ashcroft resign?  I thought Bush likes Jesus-freak
           big-brother types?  He certainly wouldn't need to throw a bone to
           \_ Once again, that careful wording bit.  Note the part about
              anyone with half a brain.  -John
        \_ I don't believe any of the chatter from media punditoids.  They
           all said some shit about Bush dropping Cheney from the ticket,
           also.  But that's just not Bush's style.  No matter how much of
           a fuck up someone is, if they're loyal, they're in 100%.  Conversely,
           no matter how good someone is, if they don't toe the line, they're
           out.  I predict Powell gets fired, and they call it resignation.
           Everyone else stays.  If you think Bush sees Ashcroft as a failure,
           I think you overestimate Bush's quality as a human being.
        \_ Ashcroft is going to resign, and Dubya will say he did a great job.
           Rumsfeld?  He probably wants to finish up Iraq first.  If he
           resigns, he'll have a trusted lieutenant take up the reins to
           finish his second goal of transforming the force.
           \_ people say Condi will take over for him. Also dont forget about
              Powell, seems certain he will step down as well. -rory
                \_ Yeah but I think Powell's seen more as sort of a tragic
                   figure who didn't do enough, rather than a blithering
                   failure.  CNN intl. this morning seemed to think that Rice
                   was also going to quit.  -John
                   \_ well then its anybody's guess I suppose. I barely
                      remember as I was hitting snooze on NPR this morning
                      a correspondent reporting that W found her too valuable
                      to let her leave. whatever that means. -rory
        \_ Dubya won the election.  Having done so, he has no reason whatsoever
           to change his style, his cabinet, or his direction.  Expect four
           more years of the same, only now with more arrogance and swagger.
2004/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:34691 Activity:nil
11/5    Electoral vote map by County:
2004/11/5 [Uncategorized] UID:34692 Activity:nil
11/5    Has the battle of Fallujah begun already?
        \_ No, the official battle begins after Ramadan, in 10 days.
           Currently we are softening up the area from the air, as usual
           strategy.  LOCK AND LOAD!
2004/11/5 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:34693 Activity:high
11/4    Can anyone give me some tips on how to, where at, and how much it costs
        to learn country dancing and horseback riding the state of California?
        I want to be less narrow minded and want to try out everything.
        I feel this should not be strictly a hobby of the elite right.
        \_ Are you Chinese?  Do you understand the effect the opium
           trade had on China?
           \_ You've obviously never served.
                \_ Why do you hate swift boats?
                  \_ of course you realize this could destabilize the opium
                     trade for generations to come
2004/11/5 [Reference/Military] UID:34694 Activity:very high
11/4    Can anyone give me some tips on how to, where at, and how much it costs
        to train with guns in the state of California?  I want to try the most
        common pistols, rifles, shotguns, and semi-automatic assault rifles --
        probably one lesson a month in some new set of weapons.
        I feel this should not be strictly a hobby of the right.  Also, does
        anyone have a recommendation for an all-around, reliable semi-automatic
        assault rifle and pistol?  Thanks! -liberal (Yes, I'm totally serious.)
        \_ Best place to train (in LA)
           active LAPD SWAT officers are the instructor, cheap courses,
           most available to civilians as well. Most of the rest are all
           overpriced (4 figures+) with instructors who have never been in
           gunfight. Scott Reitz has been in 15 (he's a certified court
           consultant on use of force as well as consultant to many movies)
        \_ Y'all shuh ya safe shootun wit uz dum raid naik hiks?  Wez not two
           braight butt wez kin smail ah liberul fer milez!  Scuuze meh butt
           ah gotta gow fuck da pig!
        \_ For pistols, Beretta 92(9mm), USP9 (9mm), Smith and Wesson 5903
           (9mm) are all pretty decent weapons that are pretty simple to
           operate and comfortable to shoot.  When you've gotten comfortable
           with a 9mm, you may want to try more aggressive calibers like
           .40, 10mm, .45, etc.  As a side note, I believe that most
           competition weapons are either .22 (a very small bullet) or .45.
           Many of the .45's that I've shot have a _hair trigger_ so
           definitely be careful -- always ask the rangemaster about a new
           weapon that you've never used before.            -mice
           \_ .45 hair trigger? Try Sigs in single action mode next time.
              Find a friend - most ranges don't rent out Sigs. -jlee
              \_ Jackson Arms in South SF did at one point, give them a call.
              \_ My 1945 Remington-Rand most definitely does not have a hair
                 trigger.  -John
                 \_ My brother-in-law had an Argentinian 1911 which fired
                    with only a very light touch once it was cocked.  I've
                    never had a tighter group than I had with that.    -mice
                    \_ Well mine kicks like a mule and is all over the place,
                       but that's probably because I can't hit the side of
                       a barn.  -John
                       \_ John, I think your 1911 is broken.  I am almost
                          certain you have stronger hands than me, and I can
                          handle a 1911 just fine.  -- ilyas
                          \_ Ilya, re-read.  I am a miserable shot.  Period.
                             \_ No I meant about kicking.  I don't blame you
                                for shooting badly, that depends wildly on
                                the tolerances of the 1911.  The milspec ones
                                are so loose they rattle. -- ilyas
                       \_ Heh -- the kick wasn't so bad on that weapon.  I
                          played around with shooting it one handed, and the
                          kick was manageable.  As for barn hitting, well,
                          my claims about a tight group are rather relative
                          to my own (unimpressive) skill level.     -mice
              \_ Actually, I rather like the hair trigger -- I'm just pointing
                 out that it's best to ask the rangermaster for information
                 out that it's best to ask the rangemaster for information
                 about a weapon if it's the first time you've used a weapon
                 and you're still relatively new the hobby.    -mice
                 and you're still relatively new to the hobby.    -mice
              \_ cf "*Many* of the .45's" !=  "*All* of the .45's", etc.
                 \_ In my personal experience, hair-triggers were the
                    exception, not the rule, among .45's.  I remember
                    being rather surprised at how sensitive the trigger
                    was on that Argentinian when I shot it.  Revolvers, on
                    the other hand, when set to single action?  Hair.
                    Trigger. -geordan
                    \_ No, it's not the rule, and it wasn't my intention to
                       imply that.  Thanks for clarifying.        -mice
           \_ I actually started out with revolvers.  Less to worry about,
              just shove the bullets in and pull the trigger.
        \_ I'd report you to Ashcroft, but it looks like he's retiring.
        \_ To try out "stuff", there are loads of pistol ranges (STFW).  Many
           have different kinds of pistols for rent, so try out various
           calibers and see what fits the bill.  Concerning rifles, I
           remember going to a "federally designated shooting area" (basically
           a big open field full of hayseeds popping off ammo from picnic
           tables) near Chico; they were very friendly and informative about
           various guns.  To get the feel of a rifle, you can pick up a
           Russian SKS for about 50 bucks.  Go to a gun shop, preferably a
           well-lit, reputable looking one, and chat with the people there,
           you may be surprised at how helpful they are.  -John
           \- make sure you wear your united states of canada/jesusland
              tshirt. --psb
                \_ You'd be surprised.  A lot of the guys running shooting
                   ranges only care about one thing, do you support their
                   idea of the 2nd amednment.  Being at a gun range asking
                   for gun advice makes them like you, cause you probably do.
           \_ Thanks!  Two more questions:  About how much should I expect to
              spend at a gun range as a first-timer, and how long is it?
              \_ If you live in the Bay Area, there are a number of good ranges
                 or clubs that you can check out.  I've found that, for an
                 indoor pistol range, Target Masters West is very, very good.
                 The staff is knowledgeable and friendly, and selection of
                 rentable firearms is decent.  You'll need to bring a friend
                 if you don't bring your own firearm.  Cost?  Well, $8 per
                 hour for most weapons, $10 for a lane for an hour, plus ammo:
                 for a nine millimeter, figure about $8/50 rounds, for a
                 .40 or .45 closer to $12/50 rounds.  So, perhaps around $50
                 or so.                -mice
                 \_ And 50 rounds goes a lot faster than you'd think.  Ammo
                    is where the big costs.  Think about buying some beforehand
                    if you know what caliber you want to shoot. -aspo
              \_ Found this:
                   I recommend taking someone along to show you the basics
                   and safety-type stuff if it's your first time.  If you're
                   serious, I think it's a good idea to take a gun safety
                   course (contact your local cops).  -John
                   \_ I agree.  Get someone who knows how to shoot to show
                      you the ropes.  You probably do know someone, ask
                      around and you may be surprised. -aspo
                   \_ I don't know anyone who already own guns, so can I learn
                      the basics from a safety class?  - not op
                        \_ "basics" = rtfm to find out how the safety works,
                           never ever point it at someone you don't intend to
                           shoot, including yourself, always assume a gun is
                           loaded, never keep a round in the chamber, buy a
                           trigger lock (ca. 25 bucks), use it, keep ammo and
                           guns locked up from children, know how much ammo
                           fits in a magazine, load it, point it, slowly
                           in/exhale (whatever works for you), squeeze your
                           hand like you would an orange, and occasionally it
                           will go bang and a piece of lead will fly out the
                           front real fast.  There is nothing to be scared of.
                           Just think of it like a big power tool.  Range
                           staff will usually show you what to do, don't be
                           afraid to tell them that you're completely new at
                           this.  -John
                 \_ I'm not scared of the guns so much as the ammo. I'm scared
                    that if I drop a bullet it might go off (is that possible?)
                    Or a "bad load" might explode (down the road, y'know). -!pp
                    \_ In order for a dropped bullet to go off, it would need to
                       fall, primer first, on something sturdy and sharp, in just
                       the right way.  Don't worry about it.  I don't think you
                       have to worry about modern ammo exploding on you either.
                       The biggest problem with ammo is some bullets simply not
                       firing (something wrong with the powder, etc), at which
                       point you have to clear out the resulting jam.  Honestly,
                       the biggest possibility of injury at a gun range, if you
                       are non-insane is firing a calibre that's a little too
                       big for you to handle, so the firearm injures you during
                       recoil (some people I know hurt their hands shooting
                       .44 mag revolvers, or their shoulders by not bracing
                       properly when shooting shotguns).  And by injury here I
                       mean 'ow, that smarts,' not 'ow, my bone is broken.'
                         -- ilyas
                    \_ common injuries w/ weapons that have slides, e.g.
                       most semi-automatics, is careless placement of non
                       trigger hand.  the slide moves back and can slice
                        \_ also watch the trigger hand, depending on the size
                           of the grip and placement of your hand...
                       of a nice chunk.  keep hand away or in a proper
                       supporting grip as they teach.
                           if you want to learn to shoot, practice patience
                       rather than seeing how many rounds you can squeeze
                       off in a session.  a good shooter i knew would go
                       to the range for a half hour to shoot 10 rounds
                       and then go home, as training.
                           you won't get a "bad load" unless you take
                       a hand-loaded round from some nutcase.
2004/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34695 Activity:low
11/5    All you kids planning on moving your money out of the dollar should go
        check the jobs report today.  I wish you well betting your money on
        a cynical and pessimistic view painted by your politics.
        \_ I'm not sure what you mean. -!moving money out of $ guy
        \_ Well, Dubya and friends are incompetent.
2004/11/5-7 [Science/Space] UID:34696 Activity:high
11/5    Are there any commercial products out there that do something similar
        in fuction to SETI?  In other words, I'm looking for something that
        will let me split up a large job among a bunch of workstations in an
        office environment (or over the net) like SETI but due to "management
        requirements" it has to be commercially available.  Anything at all
        like that out there?  Thanks!
        \_ Is it for compiling things?
        \_ google for "Grid Computing".  -tom
        \_ Entropia does what you want, I think.
           \_ FightAIDS@Home uses Entropia.  I can't get it to use two
              processors on my dual-processor machine.  The new SETI@home uses
              BOINC and it can use two processors, but BOINC is not a
              commercial product.
        \_ Digipede may also be what you're looking for.
        \_ Condor is the most mature cycle scavenging system and is
           sort of half-commercial out of U. Wisconsin.  works for a large
           set of small applications, e.g. parameter studies.  there is
           no silver bullet if you haven't already decomposed your
           problem into chunks w/ low communication requirements.
           \_ I agree with this. Condor is the closest. Lots of people
              have something similar, though. We run something we got from
              Argonne and modified ourselves. Good luck finding something
              'commercially available' though. Your management sounds
              retarded, btw. My management likes to save money when
              \_ The charitible interpretation is that they want commercial
                 support, which is a reasonable requirement.
                 \_ However, it is a somewhat different requirement.
              \_ something from Argonne?  now I am curious what you're
                 talking about. --karlcz (globus co-architect)
        \_ Is it a compilation job or something run from a makefile?
        \_ A colleague of mine is using something called United Devices.
2004/11/5-7 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:34697 Activity:high
11/5    In C, why is the "offsetof" macro defined to be of type size_t but not
        ptrdiff_t?  Thx.
        \_ Probably because ptrdiff_t is signed and size_t isn't.
           \_ How does being signed make ptrdiff_t less portable?
              \_ Imagine a 16-bit C implementation, where int is 16 bits, long
                 is 32 bits, and the maximum object size is 64k - 1.  size_t
                 can be unsigned int, but ptrdiff_t has to be long; you save
                 time and memory by using size_t when possible.  --mconst
              \_ Who said anything about portability?  It looks like one of
                 those cases where since the value is always >= 0 the standards
                 guys use an unsigned type.
2004/11/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:34698 Activity:high
11/5    What left-to-center EU newspapers would the motd recommend? The
        ascendancy of the BUsh theocracy has me orienting myself towards
        the EU, whose community-oriented policies and multilateralism
        speak to my progressive/liberal values. I have reading proficiency
        in French and Spanish, and presently I'm learning Italian. My
        Tagalog & Ilokano blow chunks. Thanks. --elizp
        \_ Yeah the EU really has a spine.
        \_ To be honest, it's a bit sad if you only want to read stuff that
           echoes what you believe in.  The left-wing Euro papers are just as
           dogmatic, biased and repetitive as anything you'll find on the
           other side of the spectrum.  Just because it comes out of
           Europe doesn't magically make it politically more insightful.  Why
           don't you just go for a broad sampling of editorial opinion? -John
           \_ Between the NYTimes, WaPo, LATimes, and ChiTribune, I have
              a lot on my plate; I already subscribe to The Economist for
              a smart conservative perspective; and I asked for left-of-center
              b/c the EU press has a longer tradition of papers affiliated
              explicitly with political parties. ANd if I want a Libertarian
              opinion, I can just turn to my husband @ <DEAD><DEAD>
                \_ The Economist is not a 'smart conservative opinion'.  I
                \_ The Economist is not a 'smart conservative perspective'.  I
                   think you are misled.
                   \_ Understand, liberals think that's an oxymoron anyway.
                   \_ What perspective is it?
                      \_ globalist agitprop
                \_ Look, if you want to build an independent, viable,
                   intelligent view of what's happening in the world, you
                   could start by getting away from the whole "liberal/
                   conservative" black & white stuff.  The economist is
                   decidedly not what I would call "conservative" along the
                   lines of what conservatives in the US seem to call
                   "conservative".  You're also not going to get a good
                   representative sampling of the European (or any) press
                   if you don't differentiate between viewpoints in various
                   areas (economy, social issues, environment, diplomacy,
                   etc.) or even more detailed nuances there.  Start by
                   leafing through all the big name ones (no one's suggesting
                   you read the FT cover to cover) and you'll get there. -John
                   \_ OK, then help me out: what big name ones should I
                      start with? If all you wish to do at this moment is
                      berate me for my all-round myopia, rest your case:
                      my shock at the outcome of this election has already
                      unmasked it. --elizp
                      \_ OK, for the classic 'leftie' ones start with the
                         Guardian (UK) and Liberation (FR).  FAZ (DE) and
                         Times (UK) tend to be very sober in terms of
                         presentation (both optical and with their editorials)
                         The big ones in Spain are El Mundo / El Pais, and
                         in Italy one of the more widely read ones is Corriere
                         della Sera.  Also check out Le Temps in France.
                         I doubt you're interested in Dutch/Scandinavian
                         papers, but to get a fairly complete overview have
                         a look at .
                         To be honest, I prefer the IHT.  -John
           \_ BTW reading freerepublic and democraticunderground doesn't
              count as a broad sampling. -jrleek
        \_ Le Monde is a nyt partner.  But if you are really more interested
           in facts than fictions and lies, you should try to read a lot of
           sources (which can take some time).  The number one job of any
           journalist, whatever his political orientation is, is to lie.  But
           if you sample widely AND have a GOOD processor, you might be able to
           average the lies out and get some truth.  Keep this in mind: they
           ALL lie.
               \_ But there's bias, and there's intellectual honesty. Those
                  qualities are distinct from each other, but not always
                  easily identifiable in any range of arguments. That's
                  why I came to the motd for some recommendations, and
                  so far no one has been helpful. --elizp
                        \_ Uh... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I listed at least two papers
                           that fit your initial criterion, along with a good
                           sampling of major papers from which you can draw
                           your own confusions.  And once again, it is my view
                           that most "left of center" editors and columnists
                           here tend to be as demagogic and undifferentiated
                           as the "right of center" media that seems to annoy
                           you in the US.  Intellectually honest, maybe, but
                           definitely sanctimonious.  I will gladly let you
                           know when I find one that isn't so holier than thou
                           as to be really really tiresome.  -John
           \_ but anonymous cowards on the MOTD always tell the truth.  -tom
              \_ That's uncalled for.
                 \_ Not necessarily.  The AC just slagged off all journos
                    with his needlessly nasty review.  Tom responded in kind.
                    Status quo preserved. --erikred (nice try, AMC)
                    \_ Tom is unable to respond in any other way.  It's
                       misleading to say a constant function is responding to
                       anything, it just sort of stays constant.
                       \_ hey, it's NERFAMC!  -tom
        \_ The Guardian is pretty good and in English:
           Right after 9/11, when the entire American media turned itself
           into a cheering section for Bush, I read it for an alternative
           perspective. Now I can find that in the American media, so
           my reading of it has dropped off quite a bit. -ausman
        \_ try the Al Jazeera. Halaalalalahahahalala.
2004/11/5 [Finance, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34699 Activity:nil
11/5    At least one sector of the economy will always do well under Bush:
2004/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34700 Activity:moderate
        Hahahaha... I want to see sissy liberal vs. a gun-toting, redneck.
        \_ I want, to grammar unnecessary, commas.
2004/11/5-6 [Science] UID:34701 Activity:low
11/5    What is the difference between acidity and alkalinity? Doesn't
        one determine the other?
        \_ I think they are the same.  If the pH value is less than 7, they
           call the measurement acidity.  Otherwise they call the measurement
        \_ Yes.  Ph = -1*log10(concentration of H+ ions) =
                 Ph = log10(concentration of OH- ions) +14
           But the acids and bases contributing to the overall acidity
           can have complicated reactions.  Ph=7 = neutral
        \_ Yes, 10^-14 = [H3O+][OH-]
           So you see, if [H3O+] increases, [OH-] decreases, and vice versa.
           If there's more [H3O+], it's acidic; more [OH-], alkaline.
           -Former Chem1A/B TA
        \_ It's like asking if hotness and coldness are the same thing.
           They're different ways of refering to the same property, in this
           case oxidation/reduction ability.
                \_ Oxidation/reduction is actually different than acidity.
2004/11/5 [Recreation/Humor, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34702 Activity:very high
11/5    Loyal Bush supporter attempts to save the lions:
        \_ Loyal Kerry supporter posts misleading headline.  Oh and he's an
           idiot too.
           \_ Loyal Bush supporter can't take a joke.
              \_ That was a joke?
                 \_ heh, that's funny, in a 2004 Bush mandate sort of way -!op
                 \_ Of course.  Given a choice between "misleading idiot"
                    and "jokester", which would you choose to be?
        \_ more reasons to nuke the uneducated country folks! -neo-liberal
           \_ My link was funny.  You are not.  --op
2004/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34703 Activity:high
11/5    'Jesusland' is bigger than it looks:
        \_ Does anyone have a similae histogram showing total population?
        \_ Your title is even more deceptive.  What this truly shows is that
           Kerry had places where he's overwhelmingly popular, while Bush
           barely squeaked in in a lot of places.
           \_ No, it doesn't show that.  Small column does not necessarily
              mean 'squeaked by' it could just mean there is an overwhelming
              majority, and few people there.  Conversely, for Kerry, a large
              histogram does not mean overwhelming support, it just means
              the place has a lot of people, so even a difference of a few
              percent would give a large histogram.  You = idiot.
              \_ Either he's really an idiot who needs to refresh his high
                 school math, or he's just a bitter Kerry supporter who tries
                 to confuse people.
              \_ And you = flatulent gas bag.  Your analysis, however, is much
                 more in-dpeth than mine.  Congratulations.  Now fuck off.
           \_ Well, Bush was also overwhelmingly favored in some places, mainly
              those with more cows than people.
                \_ Some cows apparently voted in Ohio:
        (use for the registration)
        \_ Crap.  And I thought computer voting was perfect.
2004/11/5 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34704 Activity:high
11/5    A somewhat different reaction to the election by some Iranian
        activist types.
        \_ A more normal reaction from America's lefties
        \_ The liberal media doesn't want to cover the millions of Iranians
           who expressed their satisfaction of Dubya's victory by calling and
           congratulating each other, many of whom were seen walking in the
           streets shaking hands and showing discreet V signs!
           I haven't seen a single article from the liberal media on this,
           including the AP and Reuters!  WTF??!?
2004/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34705 Activity:very high
11/5    Why do we care about politics so much?  Why can't we go
        back to being apathetic?
        \_ Because we're educated people and this is a very interesting
           topic to discuss.  -John
        \_ because those pesky politicians have this nasty annoying habit of
           creating laws that interfere with our lives, and making taxes
           that take away our money!
        \_ Cause Dubya is a polarizing figure, duh.
           In the same way Clinton made waves by having an intern on his cock,
           Dubya is leading this country as the most inarticulate President
           of the 20th century.
           of the last 100 years.
2004/11/5 [Recreation/Dating, Recreation/Travel] UID:34706 Activity:nil
        Stories from people who work in Japan's Love Hotels.
2004/11/5 [ERROR, uid:34707, category id '18005#3.33' has no name! , ] UID:34707 Activity:high
        The deadbeat states
        \_ one of these days Atlas is going to shrug and you republican
           motherfuckers are going to find yourselves in a third world country
           which  is what America would be without the blue states. I'm
           guessing Jesusland would not even be in the top 20 economies in the
           world.  Note that I'm suggesting a breakdown by county as in
           the map below, not by state.
           \_ In that case, Jesusland would include San Diego and Orange County
        \_ I wonder if that factors in the reverse. For example, if the welfare
           people aren't voting much/aren't enough to win and the others are
           pissed at them.
2004/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:34708 Activity:high
11/4    Glitch gave Bush 3893 extra votes in Ohio. A technician from
        the Omaha, Neb. company that designed the software, Election
        Systems & Software Inc., was working to diagnose and fix the
        \_ Assuming the election was by and large fair, as liberals and
           conservatives have asserted, such glitches would on average affect
           both Kerry and Dubya votes, such that a > 130,000-vote win would
           be well outside the margin of error.
           Anyways, IMO, WHY THE FUCK do we have voting machines which don't
           leave a paper trail?  Liberals are just standing around scratching
           their heads trying to figure out whether THEY were fucking with
           the exit polls; or that the original exit polls were right and they
           GOT FUCKED by e-voting machines, with no real evidence either way.
           \_ I think the simple answer is that politicians of all stripes
              are retarded about technology.  They think that more expensive
              and complicated is always better.  And since the folks who make
              expensive machines pay for their campaigns, they tend to listen
              to them.  That's why NIST needs to start a division to deal
              with the problem of voting device accuracy.   If we had formal
              standards for what constitutes an accurate, reliable voting
              machine, then politicans, companies and the public could
              actually talk about this rationally instead of all the shouting
              we have today.
                \_ The reasons are numerous (listened to a program about it)
                   but I think the primary reason is the revolving door between
                   the makers of the voting machines and the voting
                   commissions, and that the opinions of the companies selling
                   the equipment are crowding out common sense.  And why oh
                   why should there be any laws that make it difficult to
                   verify election results?  There can be no reason for it
                   unless you wanted to hide fraud!
        \_ Omaha, Nebraska is a godamn redneck place.
2004/11/5 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:34709 Activity:nil 50%like:34199 66%like:37321
11/5    GOOG fell 9%.  Did anyone short?
        \_ I think the market is reacting to the possiblity of GOOG employees
           leaving the company to relocate to Canada.
           \_ No, it's because they offer domestic partner benefits.  Remember,
              this was the "haha, you = teh gay" election.
        \_ No, this is the market coming to their collective senses and
           concluding that dumping a shit load of money into a second gen.
           search engine company which is soon to face competition from third
           generation search engine companies may not be the brightest idea.
           Yes, google has a decent product line up but it isn't deep enough
           and the company doesn't have a sufficient public history to support
           such a high flying price.  This is not a black/white issue.  I'm
           sure Google will be around for a few years but it isn't the be-all
           end-all of everything either.  The big/smart money is cashing out
           now.  It has absolutely nothing to do with the elections.  Sheesh.
        \_ Not time to short yet. There's more where this came from.
2004/11/5 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:34710 Activity:nil
        Voter IQ. Republican vs. Democrat state intelligence.
        \_ Yes, we all know that.  Democrats are really really really smart
           and Republicans are really really really dumb.  You're also good
           while we're all evil.  You are the smartest, most beautiful, best
           educated, correct thinking, most well spoken, and closer to God
           than (well ok not that since you don't believe in one) us.  We are
           moronic bible thumping mouth breathing pig fucking red necks
           (thanks to the wall on election night for that line) while you are
           the peak of billions of years of the evolutionary process.  Since
           you got crushed that must mean the world is just an evil place full
           of stupid and bad people.  Your only hope is to flee to Europe.  We
           shall miss you dearly.  With you gone, what will we laugh at?  The
           French are just too easy a target.  The Brits we feel sorry for.
           The Spanish are craven.  The Germans are beneath contempt.  And the
           rest don't add up to enough to fill a piss bucket.  Please excuse
           me while I go knock a pig unconcious with a bible so I can give it
           a good old fashioned Republican fucking.  Maybe in 4 years you'll
           learn to treat the opposition as something more than subhuman and
           actually get some votes from those people.  I doubt it.
2004/11/5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:34711 Activity:nil
11/4    This is a hypothetical situation. Most of the nations know that
        America is having trouble stretching the military from Afghanistan
        all the way to Iraq, and according to news sources
        (,2933,133728,00.html the troops
        are pulling out of Germany and North Korea and are being reassigned
        to the middle east. Having that said, what would happen if
        all the rogue nations like N Korea, Syria, Lebanon, Iran,
        China simultaneously acquire other countries? How would the US
        respond, given that they're already stretched and can't fight
        3 wars at once, let alone 5 from the above?
2004/11/5-7 [Computer/SW/Unix, Computer/SW/Languages] UID:34712 Activity:high
11/5    Anyone with biology fu happen to know whether there are any theories
        out and about on 'junk' DNA being a form of ad hoc error correcting
        code for mutation robustness? -- ilyas
        \_ google for exons introns error-correct, e.g.,
        \_ human DNAs are persistent because of the redundancies in it. They
           estimate that over 80% of the DNA doesn't actually do anything.
           \_ isn't this thinking actually being overturned now? I seem to
              recall reading an article in Sci Am or Discover that supposed
              "junk DNA" may not be so junk afterall.
              \_ Ah, okay. Found it. Scientific American, Nov. 2003. Article
                 titled "The Unseen Genome: Gems Among The Junk"
                 \_ I would be interested in reading this.  Would you please
                    help make that easy by putting it online?  --PeterM
                       \_ I, perhaps immorally, was hoping to see the article
                          without paying.  Perhaps I'll simply go
                          visit the library.  --PeterM
                          \_ Communist bastard. -- ilyas
        \_ On a related note, LBL scientists delete a bunch of junk DNA
           from mouse genome.  Mouse is fine.
           \_ Ah, but if you do that to a whole population of mice, what would
              be the effects on their decendants in a few generations?
              \_ They will create a web site called ""
                 and make laws outlawing gay marriage among mice
                 \_ You know...I'm not sure how I should feel about this
                    subthread.                   -mice
                    \_ Are you a gay mouse or do you have genetic mutations?
                       \_ Well, I'm not gay.      -mice
                 \- I strongly recomment the book GENOME by Matt Ridley.
                    It's a little out of date [as observed above there has
                    some recent work on junk dna, including at places like
                    LBL] but anythign is this field will be going out of date.
                        \_ partha what do you do at LBL?
2004/11/5 [Uncategorized] UID:34713 Activity:nil
11/05   Gay mice have more fertile moms.
2004/11/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34714 Activity:nil
        Brazil, yes BRAZIL to start their own nuclear program.
        What would happen if all the other countries simultaneously
        do so?
2021/06/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:November:05 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>