Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:October:27 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/10/27 [Consumer/Audio] UID:34374 Activity:nil 50%like:36747 75%like:34385
10/26   New iPod commercial:
2004/10/27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign] UID:34375 Activity:high
10/26   Vote Bush!  Let's not repeat 2000 again.
        \_ You so funny!
           \_ Not really.  If your single issue is the importance of the
              voting process and the long term health of our nation's most
              basic principlesm then voting for the guy ahead in the polls
              is the most likely way to lopside them enough to avoid further
              lawsuits and post-election uncertainty.
              \_ that logic, giving all your money to people who look
                 threatening is a great way to avoid getting mugged. It's true,
                 but it's missing the point.
                 \_ Well, it's more like if you're going to get raped anyway,
                    you might as well supply your assailant with a condom.
                 \_ no, it is saying that there is a greater issue at stake
                    than which guy will fuck up the country for 4 years.
                    \_ Whereas the point is that one guy is definitely going to
                       fuck up the country, while the other guy stands a good
                       chance of _not_ fucking up the country.
                       \_ Wheew!  Another Bush supporter on the motd!
                       \_ The trick is to figure out which guy is which.
                          That's why there's a horse race.
                          \_ Right, I'm having difficulty deciding between the
                             guy who's been lying to me and shooting the
                             country in the foot for the last four years and
                             the guy who wants a chance to try something new.
                             \_ I'm sure you think you're on the right.  I'm
                                also as sure there are just as many people on
                                the opposite side who think they're on the
                                right.  That's why there's a horse race.
2004/10/27 [ERROR, uid:34376, category id '18005#2.21875' has no name! , ] UID:34376 Activity:nil 71%like:34379
10/26   Woohoo! Kerry's got the mo!
2004/10/27 [Uncategorized] UID:34377 Activity:nil
10/27   "'Integrity!  Integrity!  Integrity!'  because my mom felt that her
        adult son needed this advice from her deathbed".
2004/10/27 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:34378 Activity:very high
10/27   Why is the monarch of Monaco called a prince instead of a king?
        \_ Because it was a principality of France.  in 1512, the king of
           france recognized their independence, but the name of the office
           \_ Actually, in French and English it's 'Prince';  Germanic
              languages are a bit more precise, as they differentiate between
              'Prinz', or someone with some sort of claim to a royal throne,
              and 'Fuerst', which is kind of a generic sovereign ruler dude.
              So both Liechtenstein and Monaco have the latter, there's just
              a linguistic difference.  -John
              \_ I wonder if this is true of Italian also.  Machiavelli's
                 title certainly refers to the 'Fuerst' meaning of 'Prince.'
                   -- ilyas
                \_ ...and Principe in Spanish.  And for 100 points, what
                   do those all have in common, that German does not (besides
                   edible food)?  -John
                   \_ The English have edible food?
                      \_ Yes, it's called curry.
                   \_ Are you looking for the latin root? --scotsman
                   \_ If you mean Latin, that's not too hard.
                      \_ English is a Germanic language, not Latin.
                         \_ English takes bits from German, Latin, Greek, and
                            French (which is itself Latin-derived).
                            \_ Oh, I see.  I was just looking at
                         \_ Ding.  Why do you think they bothered with all
                            that empire shit, and then gave it up once they
                            had half of Asia and Afria immigrating?
                            \_ The East India Trading Company was just an
                               elaborate ruse to get better food for England?
                               It all makes so much sense now....
                               \_ Well, tea anyway.
2004/10/27 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34379 Activity:insanely high 71%like:34376
10/26   Woohoo! Kerry's got the mo! (Post graphic)
        \_ Kerry's people have been telling us for a long time that the
           polls don't mean anything.  Now they do?
           \_ Gallup is the poll that is really fucked, at least with their
              LV model [restored]
           \_ The real poll will be on November 2.
        \_ Uh... Zogby's numbers going back:
                11 days to go: Bush +2
                10 days to go: Bush +2
                 9 days to go: Bush +3
                 8 days to go: Bush +3
                 7 days to go: Bush +1
           This is momentum?  Please, take Stat 2.  This is all well within
           the margin of error in each case.
           \_ Zogby is weak as you noticed.  That's why I helped the op with
              the Post URL. -!op
              \_ I wonder how much of the Kerry bounce in the last couple of
                 days is due to Al-Qaqaa.  Had NYT/CBS stuck to their original
                 plan to release the story immediately before the election,
                 that might have been a decisive blow for Kerry. Now Bush will
                 have a week to recover, and he has proven to be resilient and
                 slippery in the past.  So the outcome is less clear.
                 \_ Are people troubled by the CBS attempt to game the election
                    by timing the release of the missing munitions story?
                    \_ No! Any dirty lying trick is ok to beat Bush!
                       \_ If you could rig the election to get Kerry to win
                          even if you knew he hadn't really won, would you?
                    \_ I give this motive a 50/50 chance of being true (not
                       "It sure looks like it!" or "I doubt it!").  They were
                       taping interviews and fact checking -- they don't want
                       another Font-gate.  Of course the Republican spin is
                       that CBS was definitely trying to game the election
                       after what happened with Rather.
                    \_ No more troubled than I am by Fox News' obvious
                       attempt to swing the election for the last two years.
                       \_ Fox doesn't claim to be neutral.  They claim to be
                          balanced.  They put on people from both sides of
                          every issue.  Example: Bush did the O'Reilly show
                          but Kerry is ducking it.  O'R has been trying to get
                          Kerry for months but he won't go on the air.  Is it
                          somehow biased of Fox or O'R that they aired one and
                          not the other?
                          \_ Kerry wouldn't get even treatment. Besides, since
                             Fox bias is well established, it doesn't make
                             sense that Kerry would legitimize it and reward it
                             with his appearance. Your example here is a straw
                             man. Nobody ever claimed the O'Reilly Bush thing
                             itself was bias. But O'Reilly has clearly
                             demonstrated bias in other instances. It's
                             reasonable to assume Kerry wouldn't have as
                             respectful a treatment as Bush.
                 \_ I also think part of it is from the general atmosphere that
                    a lot of newspapers are endorsing Kerry, or not supporting
                    Dubya.  There is definitely an effect if newspapers which
                    had endorsed Dubya in the past start looking wavy on
                    supporting Dubya, and other newspapers remain rock-solid
                    in solidarity with Kerry.
                    \_ Newspapers?  Do you really truly seriously in your heart
                       of heart believe that anyone who votes makes their
                       decision on national well-known figures based on a
                       newspaper endorsement??
                       \_ "general atmosphere", "There is definitely an effect"
                          != "votes makes their decision ... based on a
                              newspaper endorsement"
2004/10/27 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34380 Activity:very high
        An 18-year-old Marine recruit remained in jail on Wednesday, charged
        with threatening to stab his girlfriend over her choice for
        president ... The enlistee, Steven Scott Soper, of Lake Worth,
        became enraged Tuesday night when his 18-year-old girlfriend said
        she was leaving him -- and voting for John Kerry for president.
        \_ Give him six months on IED sweeper duty, and see whom he votes for.
           \_ Obviously you never served.
              \_ Oh, this is so much better than that tired old WDYHA.
        \_ See how crazy Kerry can drive people?
2004/10/27-28 [Reference/Military] UID:34381 Activity:high
10/27   I have a S&W .38 long nose.  It's fairly accurate to 20, 25 yrds.  I
        would like to purchase an underbarrel laser light for it.  Does any
        of the motd gun users have a good suggestion?  Ok thx.
        \_ May I ask why you want one?  I mean it's alright to want one,
           I am just curious if you have any actual need for one.  Like
           do you think it will help you shoot better? -- ilyas
           \_ I probably don't have any real need for one, being that "real"
              is supposedly combat situations only.  However, at the local
              unofficial range there is a contest for draw-and-fire shooting
              which the sight supposedly would help with.
              \_ I don't think the laser would help me shoot better.  My
                 bottleneck is my hands not my eyes. -- ilyas
        \_ surefire.  surefire.  surefire.
           \_ Why a flashlight over a laser sight?
        \_ Whoa, I just went and tried out my .45 (first handgun in about 12
           years) and let's just say that if I ever get mugged, I hope there's
           about 30 of them, in a very widely spread and randomly distributed
           crowd.  How do you actually _hit_ anything shooting directly
           from the draw?  -John
           \_ That's why we practice from the draw.  You probably can't do it
              at an official range.
           \_ get a shutgun, and saw off the barrel a bit.
           \_ Weaver-stance
           \_ so, like, why didn't you get a 9mm
              \_ Because 9mm is not THE STANDARD. -- 45 ACP #1 fan
             \_ Because I'm already getting my dad's army SIG P210, because
                I like the look & feel of the .45, because it makes a BIG
                BANG, and because 9mm is not THE STANDARD.  And I may get
              _ a .50 Desert Eagle sometime down the road.  -John
                \_ why the fascination iwith a gun that costs $1/bullet to
                   practice.  I've shot DE .44 and ruger .44 (revolver) and
                   found it sufficient "machoness".  If i really wanted to
                   push it, ther'es the 30.06 handgun, the .44 derringer and
                   a whole bunch of black powder snaplock alternatives.
                \_ .50 DE Mark XIX are not CA Legal. But you can get a .44 DE
                    and swap out the barrel.
                    \_ Good thing I'm not in CA then.  All non-full auto
                       weapons are legal here; tradeoff is that places to
                       shoot them are very limited.  -John
                       \_ huh? don't you live in Switzerland?  I thought
                          all adult male citizens were required by law to
                          have a fully automatic rifle for the militia.
                          \_ Well all the ones that couldn't get a section 8
                             to avoid spending 18 weeks doing pushups in the
                             mud while some farm boy career failure yells at
                             you.  And there are plenty of shooting ranges,
                             but you only get to use "ordnance" weapons,
                             i.e. models that are, or were at some point,
                             standard army issue.  -John
                       \_ Oh yeah?  I got a friend who is a contractor in
                          Iraq,He has fully auto matic pistols and a big penis!
                          \_ Phul auto matic pistol is teh gay.
                \_ DAMN YOU!  I WANT A P210!  WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!! -- ilyas
           \_ How about the .50?
        \_ seriously, why the flashlight?  What advantage does a flash light
           give you to hit the target.  Anyone there recommend a laser sight
           brand?  Thanks
2004/10/27 [Computer/Theory] UID:34382 Activity:nil
2004/10/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34383 Activity:moderate
10/27   The dead registers to vote.
        \_ BBC scoops voter intimidation campaign underway:
           \_ Uh huh.  Imagine trying to keep people from voting who would
              be voting illegally.  So intimidating!
              \_ And those thousands of millions of hundreds of dead people
                 with their collusion and fake registration!  Such a clear
                 \_ Did you even read the URL?  You're not even on the same
                    vaguely general topic as the rest of us.
           \_ Nice fallacies in that story.  A bunch of names in a largely
              black region.  Did the author check to see if the names actually
              belonged to black people?  Did he check the felony rolls?
              \_ Wow.  It seems like you actually read the link.  Neat-o!
        \_ Weir and Lesh are both voting for Kerry.
        \_ You can read a transcript of the story at the RNC site.  Nothing
           in the story that points the finger at one party or another if
           you ignore the RNC supplied headline.
2004/10/27 [Uncategorized] UID:34384 Activity:insanely high
10/27   Favorite soda political commentator poll:
        aaron: ..........................................
                \_ I love aaron for pushing his agenda so violently.  It
                   really makes his case.
                   \_ ilyas, what do you think?
        john: .
        \_ (a) it's "John" and (b) I don't make political commentary, I just
           post ass links, remember?
        phillip: .
        emarkp: .
        \_ "You forgot ilyas!"
        \_ anonymous coward #12: .
2004/10/27 [Consumer/Audio] UID:34385 Activity:nil 75%like:34374
10/27   New iPod campaign:
2004/10/27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:34386 Activity:very high
10/27   On a lighter note, Japan Today on Japanese drinking habits!
        \_ I'm usually not one to comment like this, but that Kaori looks like
           a skank.  The sake blush in the cheeks isn't helping.
           a skank.  The sake blush in her cheeks isn't helping.
           \_ I'm curious. Given the context of a young woman in a completely
              different place and culture, what definition of skank are you
              thinking of? E.g., does "skank" = !(HOTAZNCH1X)?
2004/10/27 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:34387 Activity:high
10/27   A note for the uber nerds: despite what `calendar` will tell you,
        the elections are November 2, not November 5.
        \_ I predict reports of really really long lines during prime-time
           voting hours will be widespred on November 2.
           Also, if you are an absentee voter in CA, please note that they
           are required to be delivered by November 2 -- postmark by November
           2 doesn't count!  I believe you can also drop it off at a polling
           \_ It's actually too late to reliably mail them at this point;
              they were supposed to be in by Tuesday.  You can drop them off
              at the polling station though. -- forgetful absentee voter
           \_ What do you want to bet that if there are long lines at closing
              time, minority precincts in swing states do not stay open late?
              \_ No precincts should ever be open late unless the precint
                 was at fault for some reason.  If you're not in line by the
                 time the precint is supposed to close, you don't vote.  I'll
                 bet that instead there are numerous judges who order certain
                 precints *only* in heavily minority areas to stay open longer.
2004/10/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34388 Activity:moderate
10/27   Form 180.  Bush signed it.  Kerry did not.  Where is the media?
        \_ It was probably there when Bush announced that he signed it.
        \_ Bush did not sign it: 'At the White House, press secretary
           Scott McClellan said he couldn't say specifically whether
           Mr. Bush signed Standard Form 180, but the president did
           request and release his own military records in February.
           "I don't believe he signed any form, but he did authorize
           making his military records available publicly," Mr. McClellan
           said.' Why do you and Rush Limbaugh keep lying about this?
           \_ He ordered the release of his records as an Executive Order as
              some flashy PR stunt.  What has Kerry done?
              \_ So, has Dubya signed Form 180, as op has written?
                 \_ Nope.  Do you think an Executive Order is less than F180?
                    What has Kerry done?
                    \_ Do you think just repeating Executive Order actually
                       defines what the order actually specified?
                    \_ You tell me which of these EOs applies and I might
                       be able to answer your question:
               \_ So I am still waiting for the number of the executive
                  order that Bush supposedly signed to release his records.
                  I went through all of them and could not find one that
                  could possibly be it. I think the Bush campaign is lying.
                  \_ No, a random Bush supporter was wrong.  Some of us Bush
                     supporters are just as hacked-off at Bush for not signing
                     form 180 as we are at Kerry for the same thing.
2004/10/27-28 [Finance/Investment] UID:34389 Activity:moderate
10/27   Russia mulling switch to Euros for oil:
        Just in case people still believe world opinion doesn't matter and we
        can do whatever we want, this could torpedo the US economy ...
        \_ Russia?  Please post figures for how big the Russian economy is
           vs. the US, the EU, Japan, and Zambia.  Their economy is itty
           bitty.  I'd be more upset if, say, Australia converted to the Euro.
           They have a real economy, a real legal system, they're not as
           risk for revolution or coup every day of the week, and a very
           major trading partner.
        \_ So since the German Mark, the British Pound, the Russia Ruble,
           and the Italian Lira aren't used for oil figures, their economies
           must be torpedoed?
           \_ Boy, thanks for that fascinating analysis.  Do you actually
              understand that the Euro and Dollar are much different from
              these other currencies?
              \_ The Lira and the Mark are not even in use anymore.
                 \_ Yen. Whatever. Point remains.
        \_ No, it really doesn't matter one whit. The currency trade
           is in the order of a trillion dollars a day. Dollars and Euro
           are both so liquid, this will have no effect, unless there is
           a psychological one.
           a psychological one.                  \- your brain has been
                                                    classified as: small.
                \_ Um, yes it does.  Oil is a hugely important commodity, if
                   the major oil producers start trading that in Euros, and
                   the dollar continues to suck while the Euro holds strong,
                   the dollar could stop being the world's default currency.
                   Once *that* happens our free ride in terms of borrowing
                   money forever is over.
                   \_ isn't that a good thing? wouldn't that force us to
                      start balancing budgets and stop having a huge portion
                      of our taxes go to paying interest?
                      \_ In the long-term it's a good thing, but in the short
                         term it's a world of pain.
                         \-The motd is to small for a an(other) econ lecture
                         \-The motd is too small for a an(other) econ lecture
                           but if you want to learn about the advantage of
                           controlling the "key currency", you should read
                           about "seignorage". The amount of "literal
                           eurodollars" [actual dollar bills] held are sort
                           of a free loan [as in we dont have to pay interest
                           to the person holding the dollar] to the US.
                           I think this is like half a trillion dollars.
                           Based on your belief about interest rates you can
                           calculate what the value of not having to pay
                           interest on that is. In smaller terms, it is also
                           much more convenient when you travel to be able
                           to directly convert from from dollar ... somebody
                           going from thailand to columbia has to convert
                           through the dollar. Upshot: in terms of the US
                           economy of 10trillion, this isnt a huge deal,
                           but to say there is no effect is just a priori
                           wrong ... it's going to have an effect in the
                           10tens of billions of dollars at least. There are
                           some other [possibly positive] effects based on
                           tighter control of the money supply and less need
                           to sterilize currency flows, but that and effect
                           on exchange rates are too complicated to get into
                           [you have to agree on a theory of demand for
                           the dollar and some beliefs on equillibrum ten-
                           dencies for your exchange rate regime] ... and i'm
                           not even sure what to say about this off the
                           top of my head. --psb
                     \_ That is why "unless there is a psychological one."
                        The actual amount of Russian Dollar/Euro trade is
                        infinitesimal, but if everyone in the world followed
                        Russias lead, then there would be an effect. Even
                        if they did, the effect would be small, unless it
                        happened suddenly.
2004/10/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:34390 Activity:high
10/27   Three busloads of schoolchildren from the Heritage Christian School
        waited for an hour and a half to see Cheney and clap for the man they
        said speaks to the issues important to their lives. Asked to name the
        country's biggest problem, 12-year-old Vivian Resto said,
        "Homosexuals. I think it's kind of gross, and my mom and I believe it
        should be a man and a woman." Her 7-year-old classmate, Kevin
        Strickland, said the most significant issue facing the country is stem
        cell research. And 13-year-old Marcus Kleinhans said he was most
        worried about abortion.
        \_ *bangs head against wall* Make it stop, please, make it stop.
        \_ Mohammed Atta thought girls were icky too! - danh
        \_ Yes, and?  Now you know why children aren't allowed to vote.  I
           think moving it to 18 was a mistake, too, but since very few of
           them vote, the damage is minimal.
           \_ Yes, and:  That's the story.  Spin it yourself, as you've done.
        \_ It's so cute when the Fundies brainwash their children from
           an early age.
           \_ Where as your opinions will have no effect on your child at
              \_ I will teach my children to think for themselves.
                 \_ also means: Let the left brainwash them instead.
                    \_ Liberal elementary schools, junior high, and television
                       advertising for kids!  Oh my!
                       Has the liberal ivory tower elite spread to Barney??
                       I knew that Pink Television Tubby was gay!
                       And Sponge Bob, always with the pants off!
                       Scooby shouldn't be craving "scooby snacks"; those
                       meddling kids should be breaking up Commie abortion
                 \_ I take it you know nothing about children aged below
              \_ There's a difference between "an effect" and a kid being
                 coached by his mom about the icky homosexuals or the
                 baby killing abortionists and stem cell researchers.
                 \_ Are you objecting to coaching itself, or the issues?
        \_ Is this from The Onion?
2004/10/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34391 Activity:moderate
10/27   "There was another election season, back in 1952, when a presidential
        contest seemed too close to call, America worried it was vulnerable to
        attack, and a single company dominated computing."
        \_ Univac predicts landslide victory for Bush in CA!!11!1!!
           \_ Univac's polling completely ignores circuits which use
              transistors and no longer have a conventional vacuum tube.
              \_ Thanks Captain Obvious.  And your point?
                 \_ It's a joke on people criticizing the Gallup poll
        \_ The Univac I used mercury delay line memory.  Very cool technology.
           \_ Looks like a jet engine.
           It appears that the delay line was only used as a stack.  Had they
           implemented a time-slot-based memory system, they could have used
           the delay line for random access, and this would have presaged the
           later Rambus architecture.  Of course, a time-slot based system
           would have been too complicated to implement given 1950 technology.
        \_ The Univac I use cleans my carpet well.  I'm waiting to upgrade to
           Multivac which can clean two rooms in parallel.
        \_ Which single company dominates computing today?  Microsoft?  Intel?
           \_ Actually, it's Apple
           \_ Microsoft is only small stuff.  Intel is small and mid-sized.
              IBM has their finger in everything.  But I don't think there is
              one single company that owns computing in that sense anymore.
              \_ Uhhh...  Yeah, sure.  Whatever.
2004/10/27 [Uncategorized] UID:34392 Activity:insanely high
10/27   I went down a few pages at random.  I chopped it all from there down.
        Sorry if your favorite thing got purged.  It was too long and mostly
        no one was replying to any of it. -tom
        \_ Yeah great, I put a problem up for a few hours.  It was taking up
           _1_ fucking line, and you delete it.  Was that one line hurting
           you in any way?  It wasn't trolling or anything.  Asshole. -- ilyas
           P.S.  I wrote the reply before tom signed, but boy does the
                 signature make sense.  *sigh*
        \_ BIAS!!!!1!
           \_ Biased, racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-something, pro-badthing,
              and generally evil, yep!
              \_ Sounds exciting!!1 Where can I sign up to be a Republican?!?!
2004/10/27-28 [Computer/Theory] UID:34393 Activity:nil
10/27   http:/
2004/10/27 [Uncategorized] UID:34394 Activity:nil
10/27   There was a problem here asked by ilyas.
2004/10/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34395 Activity:high
10/27   Economist endorses Kerry.  Come on, someone be snarky!
        \_ GIRLY MAN ECONOMICS!!1!!1!!!
        \_ let's see the URL
           \_ It's in their subscriber only content for now.  But here's
              someone who was kind enough to transcribe the print for you:
              If you do happen to have a subscription, the article is here:
              \-I think the E'ist will endorse Kerry if they do endorse
                somebody [and I'd be surprised if they didnt ... they
                live for this kind of thing]. The E'ist was really angry
                about AbuG and Guantanamo, they are not religious fanatics,
                the dont get nervous when the hear the "dont change horses
                midstream" rhetoric ... they know Kerry wont give Manhattan
                to the UN, the Louisiana Purchase back to France and TX back
                to Mexico. The may be slightly worried about some of Kerry's
                tax plans and protectionism and I think Kerry's recent semi-
                disingenuous claims may have slightly tainited his position
                in academic terms, but it's a nasty election and BUSHCO made
                it that way. We'll find out in the next 24 hrs. The trajectory
                of my thinking at: ~psb/MOTD/Economist.EndorseKerryP  --psb
                of my wondering at: ~psb/MOTD/Economist.EndorseKerryP  --psb
                \_ Wow. Check out the big brain on psb. After reading a
                   magazine for how many years? he finaly picks up on how
                   they think. Way to go,psb. And thanks for sharing. -saarp
                        \-you've been alive for how many yrs and have yet
                          to pick up how to think? [is this really you?] --psb
                          \_ I see. So by inference, since you supposedly
                             have picked up this skill, you have free license
                             brag about it? One thing I have picked up:
                             those who boast usually have little to boast
                             about. And for the record, it is I. -saarp
                                        \- i guess we'll have to recalibrate.
                                           this is like finding out absolute
                                           zero is lower than you thought it
                                           was. --psb
                \_ Bush made this election season nasty?  Bush was dead silent
                   through the entire Democratic primary season where they
                   spent their time trying to out-smear the man.  Sheesh, how
                   much more deluded or self blind can a guy get?  For a guy
                   who claims to know so much and be so informed, you come
                   across as very ignorant and biased.
             \_ Why is the free link dated in January?
                \_ Sorry, I linked to the wrong article.  Sully mentions the
                   new article here and quotes a paragraph of it:
                   I will try to find a link to the real article.
                   Here it is, for free from the Economist itself.
                   I'm going to delete the old links above:
2022/08/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:October:27 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>