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| 2004/10/21 [Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:34258 Activity:nil |
10/20 When I compile gcc with the -g option, my binary becomes bigger
because I have extra debugging information for the debugger.
Let's say I'm writing my own primitive debugging tracker that
looks at offsets of variables (both global and local), how
do I read those debugging info? In another word, how do I
fetch those debugging information in a text readable format
without running or using the debugger? Thanks. |
| 2004/10/21 [Health/Disease/General] UID:34259 Activity:high |
10/21 Given that something like 30000 people die in the US from flu each
year, this Chiron flu vaccine screwup could end up costing more lives
than 911 or the SARS epidemic.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/21/nyregion/21vaccine.html
\_ Yes, and with less John Edwardsian trial lawyers around and the
\_ fewer
FDA not putting price caps on the shots, there would be more than
1 American company creating the vaccine and there'd be plenty.
Stop fucking with the marketplace so deeply and it'll be fine.
Electing a trial lawyer to fix health care is worse than putting
the fox on hen house security. The fox can only eat 1 or 2 hens
at a time. The trial lawyer will kill everything. Already has.
\_ I'd rather have a trial lawyer in charge than a shill for the
oil and coal industry.
\_ Of your healthcare? Whatever. How's the beverage taste
this season?
\_ So does America's idiotic car culture, yet somehow that's
*never* an issue in mainstream politics.
\_ Smoke...less...crack. You have just managed to shit out one
of the most classic stupid equations of all time. No
"car culture" causes deaths. Bad drivers, bad luck, bad
weather all lead to death. Yes, having lots of traffic,
including SUVs, tired truck drivers and aggressive rice-
rocketeers is bad, but it is a reprehensible side-effect of
of something good (i.e. personal mobility.) The Chiron
fuckup is the result of lack of foresight, bad planning,
whatnot. Don't try to compare the two. Ever. Now back to
your cave, crazy troll man. -John
\_ Car culture leads to idiotic city planning, which leads
to longer commute times, which leads to more time in cars,
which continues to increase the carnage.
\_ John, the vaccine fuckup is due to lawsuits and FDA price
caps. We don't do central planning, Soviet style, here.
Yet.
\_ due to lawsuits... how do you fucking figure?
\_ due to the vaccine makers all getting their asses
sued and dropping out of the market due to liability
fears. thats how i fucking figure. why do you think
there is only *one* vaccine maker left for the flu
in the US now? why do you think doctors are going
out of practice left and right? liability. sheesh.
wake the fuck up.
\_ (1) referring to Chiron planning fuckups, (2) price caps
sure go in the direction of central planning for me...
\_ yes, check when those price caps were put in place and
the vaccine makers almost entirely stopped producing
in this country. need a hint?
\_ Call me crazy, but whenever someone answers "So does X,
but X is never an issue in mainstream politics," my
natural reaction is to ask, "Why the hell not?"
\_ Well, I think the answer is that most people have
really warped ideas about risk. People will happily
drive their car along a dangerous interstate to the
airport, then get all crazy about flying, which is
far safer. Or launch huge campaigns about firework
safety on july 4th, trying to ban anything remotely fun,
when having drunk people try to cook meat in the hot
sun is probably far more dangerous. People are
dumb.
\_ People fear risks they can't control much more than those
that they can, which makes sense on some level. You can
control how you drive your car, but not what happens on an
airplane. Fireworks injuries are more often in children
and immature 'adults'. People are logically worried that
their kid will sneak some fireworks and blow his hand off.
And if the fireworks start a fire, that will damage the
property of innocent 3rd parties. If you can control your
own risk, there's a lot less reason to petition the
government to control it for you.
\_ Getting into a car wreck on a dangerous highway is more
likely to happen to a bad driver. Since most people don't
believe they are bad drivers, this is "someone else's risk".
\_ I concur with this. -- ulysses |
| 2004/10/21 [Computer/Domains] UID:34260 Activity:moderate |
10/21 Anyone know of a study where I can find the frequency of usage
of RFC1918 networks? I.e. how many people use 10.x, 172.16.x,
192.168.x, etc? -John
\_ Doubt you can find a reliable number. Since these networks are
private, people don't usually notify anyone else (outside their
organizations) about their topology...
\_ Don't need anything reliable, just general trends and
preferences (such as, based on personal experience, more
manufacturers use 192.168.{0,1}.0/24 as default nets than
172.16.0.0--was wondering if there were any surveys around.
\_ Try doin it in reverse. You could probably find stats on
the number of publicly accessible IPs. Then find stats on how
many computers are connected to the internet (also a number
you can get estimates on). Go from there...
\_ One thing you can get a vague number on is the number of
reverse-resolution requests for RFC1918 networks. Those *still*
go to central dns servers on many poorly configured networks.
It caused enough DNS load that they went to an anycast architecture
to decentralize the DNS load.
\_ Who are the "they" you are referring to? I'm helping
run/implement anycast DNS for a number of ccTLD's as well as one
of the root servers. I know of a few other organizations that
have proposed anycasting their DNS, but was not aware of any
that were actually doing implementation work. It would be cool
to have others working on the same problem to bounce ideas off
of. -dans |
| 2004/10/21 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34261 Activity:high |
10/21 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/21/opinion/21friedman.html?hp Pretty interesting analysis of Kerry and Bush with regard to Iraq, and how it is the single most important issue. \_ NYT analysis? Is this anything more than a "Vote Kerry!" piece? \_ RIGHT ON BROTHER! SWITCH OFF THE NYTIMES AND SWITCH ON FOX NEWS!!!11!! \_ NYT on a good jobs report, "BONDS DROP ON JOBS REPORT!" \_ AP on a 3 point Kerry lead today: "Race tied." Reuters on a 1 point Bush lead, different poll for same time period: "Bush with narrow lead." What liberal media? \_ Reuters doesn't appreciate margins of error. \_ "The big question about Kerry is, 'Will he pull the trigger?' ... And the big question about Bush is, 'Can he aim?'" |
| 2004/10/21 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:34262 Activity:high |
10/21 Liberal comes to O'Reilly's defense, criticizes Mackris! omg!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50050-2004Oct20.html
\_ OMG what? There's nothing to discuss until the facts are out.
Right now we know nothing except her charges yet you assume he is
a guilty pervert. Did you assume the same of Clinton or were you
in the "she's a whore, and you can't rape a whore!" camp on that?
This is still the United States where you're innocent until
*proven* guilty in a court of law. Sheesh.
\_ I took it a little less directly than that. I think the guy
was saying, "If O'Reilly is guilty, which I don't know, the
accuser still looks pretty silly since she repeatedly put
her self back in the position as victim voulentarily."
-jrleek
\_ where do you get that I "assume [O'Reilly] is a guilty pervert"?
\_ Your description of the link. If you didn't mean that, then
please accept my apology for misrepresenting your view. That
is the way it honestly came across.
\_ It's absolutely mind-bending that you can't see the deliciousness
of a man who's made a career out of unsubstantiated ad hominem
being himself the victim of the "guilty until proven innocent"
phenomenom.
\_ Because I don't see that being how he made his career.
\_ Ah. And how do you see it? |
| 2004/10/21 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Computer/Theory] UID:34263 Activity:very high |
10/21 What Americans truly loathe about dealing with Europeans: Alan Turing
on American efforts to break Enigma:
"Generally speaking, their attitude is so purely mechanical and
mathematical that they often fail to see the wood for the trees and
do not like to admit that experience and a knowledge of immediately
prior developments, combined with a little manual work, may often
produce the answer more quickly than machinery."
I say, old chap, could you possibly be a bit more condescending?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3758276.stm
\_ Yes, but you wouldn't understand it. -John
\_ Here's my perspective as a scientist who's dealt with western
europeans: they'd rather spend a day blathering and writing on the
chalkboard than an hour in the machine shop to just build the
damn experiment. I'm excluding the English and the Swiss from
That's because all the good scientists from here _/
have moved to the US.
\_ Interesting. Why do you think that is?
\_ Because govt. & corporate grant money here is about
nonexistent, universities/colleges aren't as
prevalent as in the US (hence fewer research jobs),
US salaries are higher, innovation generally isn't
as culturally ingrained, and the academic community
here seems pretty small and inbred, wasting a lot of
energy going at each others' throats, to name a few
reasons.
\_ </troll>
\_ Every foreign scientists I work with is either
here already or trying desperately to come here
(USA). The few who were here and had to leave are
miserable. They do say that Japan is not too bad.
A small handful of foreign scientists have a
monopoly on the research in Europe and so for
those few they are better off there.
\_ Uh, so you're saying that you work in the U.S.,
and the people you've met while working in the
U.S. all work in the U.S.? wow.
\_ I work in the US with many foreign
scientists and agencies. Some are here for
a short time only and some are in Europe
and Japan. Just because I work with them
doesn't mean they are in the USA.
\_ Japan's great for research so long as you're
completely willing to give up all rights to the
fruit of your research. Cf.:
http://optics.org/articles/news/10/2/1/1
\_ This link doesn't work for me.
this, but in my opinion western European physicists are all talk
and no action, and I would avoid working with them in the future
if at all possible.
\_ The ones I've met pride themselves on their theoretical work
and describe Americans as merely applying the practical to the
more deeply intellectual concepts they've originated. They
meant it in the same way we used to talk about the Japanese
when they were doing nothing but cloning American technology
and making shittier cheaper versions of it.
\_ WARNING! None of the above posters has a clue.
\_ Said warning applies to any motd post, so it is redundant.
\_ the tone is condescending, self-righteous, and feeling
of superiority... ilyas, is that you?
\_ No, see the above sounds like something tom would say --
insulting but uninformative. If I wanted to be
condescending to people in this thread I would
wonder outloud how many posters actually worked
with European scientists, and whether they are
aware of differences between europeans working here
in the US vs europeans working in europe, etc.
Actually, what they said doesn't sound wrong
to me. In conclusion, you are an anonymous twit,
and if you think feelings of superiority are at
my personal core you REALLY REALLY don't know me.
-- ilyas
\_ If you don't know me by now
You will never never ever know me
-- h melvin and the bluetones |
| 2004/10/21 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:34264 Activity:nil |
10/21 Is there something wrong with sneakemail? I keeping getting bad
request error (speaking plain http to SSL) while trying to sign up
in secure mode with Safari, Mozilla, and lynx. |
| 2004/10/21 [Computer/SW/Languages, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:34265 Activity:nil |
10/21 My digital camera (canon powershot) doesn't have the functionality
of adding date/time at the bottom right hand corner of every picture.
And I develop the pictures at Costco and their machines do not print
date/time at the back of the paper. I really do not want to use
software and manually open up each file and add the date/time
into the pictures. Too time consuming. Are there other printing
services that will print the date on the back of the pictures? Or
some software that will automatically add the date in. Like some
programs will create thumbnails on all jpgs in a directory and name
them appropriately. Thanks.
\_ I suspect ImageMagick could do this if there's some way to extract
the timestamp from the EXIF data. ImageMagick is great for scripted
image manipulation but I don't know how to extract EXIF data with
it or any other program. -dgies
\_ I use Imagemagick's convert wrapped in a shell script to do
"thumbnailing" |
| 2004/10/21 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:34266 Activity:nil |
10/21 O'Reilly for Dikes!
link:tinyurl.com/4zhxb
\_ SNR lower than motd! |
| 2004/10/21 [Uncategorized] UID:34267 Activity:nil |
10/21 Anyone here do process accounting under Linux? Does it noticeably
impact performance? |
| 2004/10/21 [Health/Disease/General] UID:34268 Activity:nil |
10/21 Why we don't force things in chemistry, either:
http://csua.org/u/9l9 (In the Pipeline, worksafe, text only) |
| 2004/10/21 [Computer/SW/P2P] UID:34269 Activity:very high |
10/21 http://bitflood.org:8080/?file=791b2f5d95a54d1381b85f271b51f71e73964185 Get the 96MB video for a high-quality clip of the Crossfire Jon Stewart interview. This is required viewing, especially if you want to stop watching cable TV political analysis shows. (For the newbs: Save the .torrent file, then open it in BitTorrent) \_ What is up with this? Stewart was an ass and the other guy was no better. BTW, Stewart's own ratings have plunged since then. \_ Stewart was hilarious, but he had a point: without being partisan on the matter, he pointed out that CNN puts entertainment value before relevance in its programming decisions. He's right in saying that Crossfire is poor parody of a debate show, but I don't think a real debate show would do well on CNN- the ones on PBS don't seem to attract viewers. \_ If you ask me, Stewart was also talking about the problem of Begala coming "from the left" and Tucker "from the right", and there not being an honest attempt to reach a correct answer (regardless of political leanings), implying that there is none or one is not considered important. By doing this, you entertain liberals and conservatives and help them think the other side is full of idiots (encouraging the polarization of America), but you don't help them come to a correct, intelligent answer. E.g., part of the correct answer is if Tucker would say Dubya is a fucking moron to still say he would have invaded Iraq if he had known everything we know today. \_ are you sure? or are you believing drudgereport again? the daily show has been on a total of one time since friday's crossfire segment - danh \_ What have they been doing for the last week? \_ the crossfire segment everyone keeps talking about was last friday. the daily show just ran reruns all last week. i hope matt drudge gets eye syphilis. - danh \_ So, what you're saying is that Drudge's ratings info is based on last week, _before_ the Crossfire interview and during a week of re-runs. Gotcha. 'Cos this week has been awesome. \_ right. do you hate drudge as much as i do yet? - danh \_ DRUDGE HAS NEVER GOTTEN ANYTHING WRONG!!!!!1 --motd \_ What? You prefer Dan Rather and CBS for their highly accurate and well researched and unbiased reporting? \_ In the dictionary under "straw man" it says, "see this post." \_ Huh? Are you sure you don't mean "false dichotomy" or maybe "red herring?" \_ No, you're looking for "false, but accurate"! \_ I'm not sure that's possible, but I get your point. |
| 2004/10/21 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34270 Activity:high |
10/21 http://csua.org/u/9l8 (Yahoo!) Laura Bush proves herself not to be a cog in the Dubya machine: "She [Teresa Heinz-Kerry] apologized but she didn't even really need to apologize," Mrs. Bush told reporters at a coffee shop ... "I know how tough it is and actually I know those trick questions." \_ NOO!!!!1!! MUST MAKE PARTISAN ISSUE OUT OF THIS!!!! YELLING AND SCREAMING IS THE STANDARD!!!1!!! MARY CHENEY!!!1!!! BUD DAY!!!!!!1 \_ In other news, expect no apology from Karen Hughes. \_ A cog is the Dubya machine? It was the most mild rebuke of the most clownishly stupid woman to ever set foot on a political stage. This must be a troll. Please tell me you don't really believe what you're saying. \_ Who are you talking about? |
| 2004/10/21 [Recreation/Pets] UID:34271 Activity:low |
10/21 Deal dog experts. I've heard that chocolates are bad for dogs
and may kill them because it's like cocaine for them. Is this
really true? How about other types of food? Say, McD fries?
I'm asking because my gf's dad fed their dog McD fries (which
we all had) and the dog got really really sick, so I'm
wondering if fries are also bad for dogs. ok thx.
\_ Dogs don't metabolize the caffeine and theobromine properly, so it
affects them much more strongly and they 'overdose' very easily.
As for mickey-D fries... was it just sick as in barfing and/or
diarehea? If that's all I'd just blame there being more oil than
their digestive system could handle.
A small digression: Do not feed dogs any raw or cooked onions.
A compound in onions causes hemolysis (destruction of red blood
cells) in dogs, which leads to anemia or even death.
Grapes, raisins and wine are also toxic to them for some unknown
reason.
\_ As above, plus in general dogs should not be eating more than a
taste of modern human foods and never raw. Some people believe
that since dogs eat raw in the wild, they should eat raw in
captivity, but this doesn't apply, even to a simple bone, because
in the wild they consume a bone along with the fur, skin, etc, so
bone shards are coated in other unedible garbage that passes
through. When you feed your dog a raw bone without the rest of the
kill, you can cause serious harm. As for the rest of human foods,
they are simply not build to safely eat all that garbage. I let my
dog get a *taste* of a lot of things including chocolate very
rarely but I'm talking a *taste*, as in less than half a tea spoon
and more commonly just whatever is coating the tip of one finger.
Do not feed your dog greasy shitty crap like McDs. |
| 2004/10/21 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34272 Activity:very high |
10/21 This is just sooooo wrong:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/08/politics/main641817.shtml
Kerry hunting to get rednecks to vote for him is like GWB
playing classical piano to get snobby liberals to vote for him.
\_ He's been a hunter all his life. Get off it.
\_ Nonsense. He only hunts in election years. Stop drinking it.
\_ Link for this?
\_ He is anti-gun to the core. Here's a Kerry quote on Deer
hunting:
"I go out with my trusty 12-gauge double-barrel, crawl
around on my stomach I track and move and decoy and play
games and try to outsmart them. You know, you kind of
play the wind. That's hunting!" What a twit.
\_ 12-gauge shotguns are legal.
\_ Please. Give me a quote from GWB that makes him sound like
a real hunter. And stop shotgunning Bud. It's not helping.
\_ I don't recall GWB ever claiming to be a hunter. |
| 2004/10/21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:34273 Activity:very high |
10/21 Some asswipe turbo-deleted the thread, so I ll resurrect something
from it. Ben, are you saying about 30% of the country actually
agrees with what Bush et al are doing? I am not sure where you get
this number from, but even if you are right, do you think it's any
different from any other president? Clinton himself said something
about the 4 years being necessary so the POTUS has the leeway to
make unpopular decisions. Are you saying popularity is the yardstick
of the Presidency? Do you think all presidents had a 50%+ mandate
on their work (or should)? I don't really see WHAT you are saying
(other than "I REALLY disagree with this Bush guy, I wish he would
just fuck off and die!"). I STILL don't see what his policies have to
do with royalty, it sounds like some sort of liberal figure of speech,
like me calling liberal policies 'communism' in jest. Even the
most venal pro-corp anti-everything else folks don't want Feudalism
back, it will cut into the profits. -- ilyas
\_ I was talking about election turnout/civic involvement. -scotsman
\_ Bush is the most authoritarian President the US has had in
at least 125 years, probably ever. I am sorry that you are
so biased that you cannot see that. When you add that to his
personal arrogance, there is a reasonable cause for concern.
\_ I'll spell it out slowly. I'm not talking about the
popular conception of individual families. I'm talking
about ceding our wealth and civic power over to wealthy
individuals and corporations (which for some damned
reason are people too...). By cutting or eliminating
taxes on unearned or inherited wealth, the burden shifts
to income taxes and other revenue streams. It also allows
massive wealth consolidation which means massive power
consolidation. At the same time, deregulation takes away
our (the people's) recourse against bad actions by
these increasingly wealthy entities. The reason we have
regulations are to keep meat safe to eat, drugs safe to
take, planes safe to fly on. To keep the air breathable,
the water drinkable, and our economic markets running
smoothly. The end of this slide would be feudalism, which,
as ilyas correctly says, will "cut into profits". He seems
to say that people aren't that shortsighted, and that these
philosopher-kings of industry will be able to hold this
together. I'm scared our society will break before that.
--scotsman
\_ If taxes worked so well on inherited wealth, how
come the Kennedys are all still liveing off
inherited wealth? (This question is only sort of
Trollish, I am sort of curious about what the
Kennedys do to make money.)
\_ The Kennedys live off a trust, and therefore do
not pay "inheritance taxes." Only poor people
pay inheritence taxes, rich people all have
trusts.
\_ Yeah, all those poor people with estates >$1.5m
\_ You mean scotsman is worried about all those
schmucks with houses in Palo Alto?
\_ I think that number is wrong. It says
here that, before Bush's change, estates
over $1mil were charged at the "top
rate." This suggests that estates smaller
than that would still be taxed. Also,
$1mil isn't that hard to hit if you're
running a small business.
http://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/2003/04/rules.html
\_ I'll try to summarize your two concerns firat. You
are worried that 1. the change in tax code will
cause a concentration of wealth and power in the
elite classes, and 2. deregulation will offer the
common people less protection against the whims of
the elite. I have good news for you, my friend.
Trivially googling found the following paper from
the Urban Institute (http://csua.org/u/91e From
its conclusion, the study finds that "the evidence
suggests that the playing field is becoming more level
in the United States. Socioeconomic origins today
are less important than they used to be. Further, such
origins have lttle or no impact for individuals with
a college degree, and the ranks of such individuals
continue to increase." So evidence suggests that,
contrary to your worries, the upper classes are becoming
less stratified and not more. I recall reading that
most of the people on the first Forbes wealthiest list
are no longer there, and most of the members of that
list earned there money instead of inheriting it.
list earned their money instead of inheriting it.
I'd like to see evidence that there is the formation
of a calcified layer of feudal lords.
of a calcified layer of feudal lords. On the
\_ It's actually http://csua.org/u/9le
and it was published in 1997. Dumbass. We're
talking about the absurd extremism of the last 3
years. --scotsman
\_ Well, I am sure you can come up with contrary
research that says the socioeconomic mobility
is decreasing, especially due to the tax policies
of the last few years. Well? How about research
that shows the increase of SE mobility after the
imposition of the tax? Since that was adopted
in 1916, surely there has been enough time for
researchers to study the matter? If the imposition
of the tax did not improve mobility, then would
the removal of the tax decrease it? I wonder how
much the super-rich used to pay in inheritance
under the previous tax regime. Have they already
been successful in avoiding those taxes? You
made a lot of claims, how about some data?
deregulation side, I will take the less common
argument that fewer regulations making it easier for
new players to enter a particular field, and therefore
creates even more opportunity for socioeconomic
mobility. Fewer rules makes it more difficult for
the entrench players to use government regulationis
to fend off new challengers, which in turns contributes
to the churn of players at the top.
\_ Oh come on. Is Bush as bad as Tricky Dick? Or FDR (to be
fair about picking authoritarian presidents)? Bush hasn't
been caught yet, and he hasn't had the chance to pack the
Supreme Court either.
\_ Yeah, he is. Nixon, contrary to popular belief, made a solid
go at adhering to the Freedom of Information Act at the
beginning of his term; FDR never lied to get us into war.
\_ Ahem... lend-lease... ahem...
\_ ...waiting for relevance vis-a-vis lying to get us into
war.
\_ While lend-lease may have been a lie, it didn't get us
into war. The Japan Embargo did, and that was done for
honest, if questionable reasons.
\_ I have a secret plan to end the Vietnam war...woops,
sorry, I don't!
\_ Don't take the Paris Peace Accords deal! I'll make
you a better offer later!
\_ And you base this authoritarian accusation on what? Personal
experience? You have studied the history and in context
background of every President? I find this... unlikely. If
you just hate the guy, just say so. You don't have to make
outrageous, unsupported and unsupportable claims in a useless
attempt to make it appear that your hatred is based on some
false intellectual premise instead of personal animosity.
\_ Who was the president 126 years ago, and why is Bush not as
bad as he was? Was it even an election year 126 years ago?
Did you just pull the 125 year number out of your ass?
\_ Rutherford B. Hayes was the evilest man to ever darken God's
green Earth. On a more serious note, he lost the popular
vote but came out ahead in a 8-7 partisan split in a Senate
commitee to decide the election. One of the 3 states whose
EVs were in dispute was... Florida. -!pp
\_ I wouldn't say "Bush is the most authoritarian President" --
without backup, you sound like a dumb liberal. At least, you
were an easy target for above posters.
The argument is much sharper to describe the most important and
obvious event instead of just applying a label.
E.g.: "The primary reason for invading Iraq was to eliminate a
regime possessing WMD stockpiles, from which it could dole WMD
kits out to terrorists who would without question use them.
Saddam had used chemical weapons in the past, viewed them also
as his trump card, and could believably distribute them to exact
his vengeance against the U.S., which would be under the watch of
Bush Sr.'s son. President George W. Bush, having seen the
stockpile reason vanish, instead insists that, had he known
everything he knows today, would still have directed the U.S.
to invade Iraq. This is absurd."
\_ ilyas complaining about a thead being deleted.. Welcome back to
BIZARRO WORLD!! In other news, the Red Sox are in the world
series! -meyers
\_ Yeah, right.
\_ It'd be hypocritical for Democrats to decry royalty in American
politics. (ref. the Kennedy clan and Camelot)
\_ Democrats don't choose to get rid of dividend/capital gains/
estate taxes. Democrats don't vote for massive deregulation/
reduced corporate oversight/stripping tort powers. -scotsman
\_ You do realize that many people think that cutting taxes
and deregulating industry are good things. And none of
this have anything to do with claims of royalty. Are the
Bushes more royal than the Kennedies?
\_ Bush: evil. Kennedy: good. You need to be sent to the
Martin Luther King Reeducation Kamp immediately!
\_ You're not very intelligent, are you? It's okay, I'm
sure your parents still love you.
\_ Yeah Ben, "no progressive taxation -> feudalism" is a new
'line of attack' for me. I am sorry, it's really off the
wall. -- ilyas
\_ That's not "no progressive taxation". It's tax the poor
and middle class, and give the rich a pass.
\_ Which isn't happening, but it makes a good scare
tactic!
\_ Counting all the tax cuts (including captital gains,
dividends, and estate), people in the 2nd-lowest
quintile got a 17.6% tax cut. The middle quintile
was cut 12.6%, the 2nd-highest quintile 9.9%, and
the top quintile 11%.
http://www.slate.com/id/2108201
\_ Ah, short term vs. long term. Numbers are funny
things.
\_ Data please. Or are you just making
unsubstantiated claims?
\_ estate tax exemption will increase for next,
what, 7-8 years until no tax at the 10 year
mark. dividend tax was halved in 2003, gone
in 2004. running the numbers for the last
2 years is patently dishonest.
\_ I don't have a problem with regressive _tax cuts_
as long as they result in a system which is closer
to a flat tax system, which I believe is fair.
(Regressive _tax_ is bad of course). If you
think a flat tax system will lead to feudalism,
you are at the fringes of political discourse,
sorry. -- ilyas
\_ I posted the data to counter the claim that
the tax system is now less regressive. It is
if anything more regressive.
\_ The Kennedys are really great people so its ok. |
| 2004/10/21 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:34274 Activity:high |
10/21 E.L. Doctorow, author, on The Unfeeling President:
http://www.easthamptonstar.com/20040909/col5.htm
\_ http://www.lyricmania.com/l24994 |
| 2004/10/21 [Reference/Military, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:34275 Activity:kinda low |
10/21 Does someone have a link to the Daily Show clip with the "weapons of
mass destruction program related activities" and Dubya using words to
save the day? I accidentally deleted my copy. I notice there are no
more clips in /csua/tmp/dailyshow.
\_ if you email me the date i can help you out - danh |
| 2004/10/21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack] UID:34276 Activity:nil |
10/21 Thank you for the carpet bomb, freeper troll! Can we have another? |
| 2004/10/21 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34277 Activity:high |
10/21 Kerry took the opportunity to attack Bush, making references to
Bon Jovi songs. "John actually has two songs about the
administration's policies. He didn't know it, but he wrote a song
called Bad Medicine' that's about their health care plan. And he
wrote a song about their economic plan it's called Living on a
Prayer.'"
\_ Kerry is funny, he should be a commedian!
\_ Yea, Kerry's great idea - turn the medical industry into
the DMV.
\_ This is such ripe bullshit that farmers in Wisconsin would like
to talk to you about buying up your stock to ferment their
fields.
\_ Why is there such hatred about government sponsered medicare
program? I live in Santa Clara and all the government provided
service is miles ahead than what I can get if I hire private
contractor and pay shit loads of money. This including sewage
cleaning, tree trimming, etc, everything! What do I do now? I
now checks to see if the city provides the kind of service I
am looking for, if not, then I go out and get private contractors.
Remember the key difference, private contractors are there to suck
your money, governments are there to provide you a service. Don't
believe all the shit that's coming out of Bush/Cheney's mouth.
The current administration is what you get if you try to run
the government like a money greedy blood sucking corporation.
\_ So you'd rather want the medical industry be like Hilberton (or
whatever the fuck Cheney's company is called)? Where the only
answer is money? You want to live? Give me all your money? |
| 2004/10/21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34278 Activity:nil |
10/21 CNN still manages to spin Laura Bush's comments
http://cnn.com: "Laura Bush brushes aside Heinz Kerry's remarks" |
| 2004/10/21 [Uncategorized] UID:34279 Activity:moderate |
10/21 Is anybody still having problems with mail being delayed? (root)
\_ haven't noticed any problem lately. thanks! |
| 2004/10/21 [Uncategorized] UID:34280 Activity:nil 57%like:30270 54%like:32692 |
10/21 [ don't delete stuff out of order. -- ilyas ]
\_ What the fuck?? There was some interesting stuff here that you
arbitrarily chose to nuke. Punishing the community for the sins
of the individual isn't a sound moral philosophy.
\_ On the contrary. I didn't arbitrarily choose to nuke anything,
the guy I am responding to did that. I don't discriminate
like him. Since no one is _really_ getting hurt, I think
I am probably ok, and NOT going to hell. If the MAD
thing really bothers you that much, perhaps you can track
down the fucker who nukes certain shit but not other,
and try to make him see the light. Good luck with that.
Certain people understand force only. -- ilyas
\_ this is not the proper response, even if it is effective
\_ What is the proper response? And by proper, do you
mean moral? -- ilyas
\_ i offer no suggestion for a proper response; i only offer
criticism. And you know what meaning of proper I mean.
\_ It seems everyone on the motd is an expert on ilyas
except me. -- ilyas |
| 2004/10/21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:34281 Activity:nil 52%like:34282 |
Censorship sucks. Censors doubly so.
\_ Well, you can wring your hands and moan, or do something about it.
\_ Right! You can adopt ilya's strategy too! If censored, then by god,
become censor yourself! Yay! Now no one gets any use out of motd! |
| 2004/10/21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:34282 Activity:nil 52%like:34281 |
10/21 And so ends the best motd I've ever seen. Thank you scotsman and
ilyas! Here on the motd, the fringes of political debate come
together to troll.
Censorship sucks. Censors doubly so.
\_ Well, you can wring your hands and moan, or do something about it.
\_ Right! You can adopt ilya's strategy too! If censored, then by god,
become censor yourself! Yay! Now no one gets any use out of motd! |
| 5/16 |