Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:October:12 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2004/10/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34044 Activity:high
10/12   Anyone have an opinion on Austin Texas?  Preferably someone that
        has actually been there, and not "Bush and Texas suck!".
        \_ My older brother got his laptop stolen out of his rental car there
           while he was eating lunch.
           \_ He left his laptop sitting open on a seat with a sign that said
              "Steal me, my owner is stupid".  Austin sucks!
              \_ Actually it was in his trunk.
                 \_ Shit happens everywhere. BTW, I think the other day you
                    have mentioned this happened in San Antonio.
                    \_ Just reporting a data point.  Chill.
        \_ It's not a bad city. I drove through it and spent 3 days there.
           Austin would be the only city that I'd consider living in, in TX,
           and the biggest reason I wouldn't want to live there is that
           it's land-locked.
           \_ seconded.  it's the only livable place in texas for several
              reasons.  the weather is less hellish than typical texas weather,
              and the culture is not so monolithically texan.  The UT area
              of austin looks amazingly like berkeley.
              \_ I had a gf out there.  The city has a lot of very nice lakes,
                 so if you just need water, its very nice.  I would have
                 considered moving out there.
        \_ I have many, many coworkers who went to UT Austin. They all
           liked it a lot. Most did say it was the only place in Texas
           they would live. The majority went there for grad school and
           were not originally from Texas. Only one of them was from CA,
           though. I feel Californians have higher standards. Still, the
           guy from CA ended up settling there. Most of my coworkers have
           since left Austin, but talk highly of it. Me, I've never been.
        \_ Flew out of Austin yesterday (first visit since junior high).
           I was pretty impressed. Like other posters noted, it's by far the
           best place to live in Texas. Big tech industry, great university
           as the core of the town, really educated population, big live music
           scene. Probably as liberal as you'll get in Texas. It's probably
           the closest you'll get to Silicon Valley culture outside of
           Silicon Valley (although I don't think it's a whole lot like
           Berkeley, maybe more like Rockridge).
        \_ I once came up with the big 4 reasons to relocate to TX, when I
           considered it several years ago.  My 4 reasons were: 1. no state
           income tax, 2. concealed carry, 3. open containers in cars, and
           4. women with big hair.  Texas might have sissified in recent
           years, so I don't know how many of the reasons may still apply.
2004/10/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:34045 Activity:insanely high
10/12   Bud Day is the most decorated soldier since MacArthur in WWII
        A True War Hero Speaks on Kerry
        http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14898
        \_ I would like to point out the incumbent has involved us in
           a long messy guerilla war we have no hope of winning ever,
           just to promote the 100 percent free market ideals
           of his masters.  thanks. - danh
           \_ I really wonder what people like yourself did during the
              first years of WWII or Korea.  I imagine some committed
              suicide because of the impending doom.
              \_ You, sir, are no FDR!
           \_ Hey, it's hard work.  No one said it wasn't going to be hard
              work. -Dubya
        \_ Er, didn't this already get posted, discussed, flamebaited,
           and run into the ground?  Swift Boat Guy, are you back?
           \_ Yes.  The thread has been restored in its entirety.
              Gawd Bless AmeriKKKa.
        \_ So Bud Day, a POW, does not think kindly of the anti-war movement.
           What's new?  It was a very ethically challenging time.
        \_ To sum: John Kerry, WDYHA?
        \_ Attaboy... don't ever think about your mistakes.  It's just a
           sign of a poor leader.
        \_ All the medals in the world can't change the fact that Vietnam
           was arguably America's dirtiest war.  I love the smell of napalm
           in the morning.  That soldier needs to read The Best and The
           Brightest.
           \_ Why, because Kerry and Fonda said so?
              \_ Open your eyes.  Four million civilians died in this war.
                 As for you, you can watch Fog of War, in which the Secretary
                 of Defense at the time gives his personal views of the war.
                 \_ i think a larger ratio of the population in Vietnam died
                    than the russian korean french and german population excuses
                    you give
                 \_ 4 million is exaggerated. McNammara is responsible for
                    the outcome, he is an asshole of grandest kind - why
                    should I listen to anything he says?  He completely
                    botches the war effort and then expects people to listen
                    to his contrite exculpation - he was part of the problem.
                    800,000 died in the battle of Stalingrad, more at Kursk,
                    300,000+ at Okinawa, 2+  million in the Korean War.
                    Was Korea a bad idea too?
                    \_ *YES*  If USA didn't cross the 38th parallel line,
                       Chinese would not of being involved.  You would have
                    \_ *YES*  If USA didn't cross the 38th parallel, PRC
                       would not have being involved.  You would have
                       a lot less casualty then.  Unfortunately, USA's
                       mentality was blinded by their ideology, completely
                       miscalculate the rational behind China's involvement.
                       mentality was blinded by its ideology, completely
                       miscalculating the rationale behind China's involvement.
                       Then again, we are waging this "war on terror" and
                       "war on iraq" without clear understanding of why our
                       enemy was fighting against us neither.
                       "war on Iraq" without a clear understanding of why our
                       enemy is fighting against us.
                       \_ above has been processed by volunteer english
                          correcting daemon
                          \_ thank you
                       \_ "You ... we"  Make up your mind.
                       \_ Nothing wrong with crossing the 38th parallel
                          to destroy a regime that believed in the evil
                          communist cult, and invaded first.  US probably
                          should have started a dialogue with PRC though.
                       \_ Crossing the 38th parallel was fine.  We should
                          have talked to the PRC about it, but there's
                          nothing wrong with crushing an expansionist
                          oppressive communist regime that attacked first.
                          Furthermore, there were plenty of reasons to
                          reunite Korea at the time, and it has only
                          become more desireable in hindsight. -jrleek
                    \_ WW2:  America and its allies were attacked first.
                       Korea:  South Korea was attacked first.
                       Vietnam:  ... duh.
                       Are you really this stupid?
                       The 4 million figure has generally not been challenged,
                       with notable exception to your "4 million is
                       exaggerated" brilliant expository.
                       Why should you view McNamara's interview?  He was
                       Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam War.  If you
                       don't want to hear this viewpoint, it's certainly
                       your right to block out this essential primary source.
                           \_ Your history is completely wrong.  Ho
                              Chi Minh attacked the South, not the other way
                              around.  Vietnam was a defensive war honoring
                              SEATO treaties.
                        \_ The reason for a war, while important, does not
                           excuse bad conduct.  You could argue either side,
                           from "we continued a French colonialist spat" to
                           "we were safeguarding an independent country."  The
                           problem is that there was never a clear mandate,
                           the RVN was a corrupt and doomed system (for
                           whatever reason), US leadership treated the war
                           as sort of a playground for new ideas, and many
                           US troops acted wrongly.  In a situation like that
                           of the US in Vietnam, having the clear moral high
                           ground is tremendously important, no matter what
                           you do.  We lost it, so even if the war was fought
                           on good reasons (as I think) both strategically and
                           philosophically, we fucked it up royally.  -John
                           \_ Just little fact.  When WW2 ended, USA actually
                              recognized N.Vietnam government for a split
                              second, then reversed its decision once USA found
                              N.Vietnamese government's Communist nature.
                              It is unfortunate that until TODAY, most people
                              in USA still don't understand people's desire
                              of self-determination over all other things
                              which USA treasures: Christianity, human right,
                              democracy.  For many, USA is just an continuation
                              of European's imperial conquest, driven by
                              doctrine of White Man's Burden written centries
                              ago.
                              \_ Yup, let's stop paying all those third world
                                 countries.  Fuck White Man's Burden, let em
                                 starve.
                              \_ Yes, we should support self determination for
                                 Taiwan.
                                 \_ Chicom troll = pwned.
                                 \_ And Tibet.
        \_ I would like to point out the incumbent has involved us in
           a long messy guerilla war we have no hope of winning ever,
           just to promote the 100 percent free market ideals
           of his masters.  thanks. - danh
           \_ I really wonder what people like yourself did during the
              first years of WWII or Korea.  I imagine some committed
              suicide because of the impending doom.
        \_ Er, didn't this already get posted, discussed, flamebaited,
           and run into the ground?  Swift Boat Guy, are you back?
                              \_ Your Vietnamese history is wrong.  The three
                                 regions of Vietnam voted, two chose to stay
                                 aligned with France.  The third, the North,
                                 split.  This was not good enough for Ho Chi
                                 Minh, so he attacked the South.
                                 \_ huh? what have you been smoking?
        \_ Do you think that posting this again day after day is going to
           convert more voters to your crusade?
        \_ Only what I want to talk about matters and I will keep posting it
           and reposting it ad initium forever. Get used to it.
2004/10/12 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:34046 Activity:nil 50%like:34336
10/11   Hmm .... Google is looking more and more attractive
        as a short.  Go Google, go!
2004/10/12 [Recreation/Dating] UID:34047 Activity:nil
10/11   Helo, is anybody familar with copyright notices?
        What is the consequence of not including a date?
        I am trying to figure out which of these to use:
          Cover photograph: (c) PSB
          Cover photograph: Copyright (c) PSB
          Cover photograph: Copyright (c) 2004 PSB
        Feedback appreciated. --psb
        \_ Copyright indicia are completely optional.  Any work you create
           is automatically copyrighted by you.  Including a copyright
           notice, however, gives you a stronger position if there is a
           legal dispute.  I assume including the date is better than not
           including the date.
        \_ I believe most copyright (aside from work for hire sorts of things)
           is for life of the author +70 years, so the date of creation is
           not particularly important.
2004/10/12-13 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:34048 Activity:very high
10/12   How's this for a csua fundraising idea:  If someone put selected
        shit from the motd, as far back as various archives go, in a useful
        format and sold it as a book, I think a lot of people would buy it.
        There's some pretty funny/interesting/weird stuff in there.  Call
        it something like "a decade in the life of..."  -John
        \- Do you think so? Copyright 2004 Partha S. Banerjee --psb
           \_ Partha, your genital clamps are too tight again.  -John
              \_ Tell yermom to unclench her jaw, then.
              \- it's a joke, clod. --psb
                \_ Ditto, muppet.  -John
              \_ he has a point.  anyone who's posted to the motd could
                 in theory go after whoever published it for copyright
                 violation.  sure, it would be idiotic and annoying, but
                 take a look around.
                \_ when I TAed for a class, my professor said all of
                   my work and all of the students' work, like sample
                   exam, solutions, source code, etc (in another word,
                   all intellectual property) belongs to UC Regents,
                   and if UC really wants, it could use those materials
                   for anything including profit. So, by using UC
                   land, UC network, and UC computers,
                   "all your motd bases [are] belong to UC Regents".
                   \_ B.S. You signed a contract when you worked for UC.  motd
                      posters signed no such contract.
                      \_ Since the motd is anonymous and anyone can pretend to
                         be anyone else (and this has happened) and the motd is
                         also full of personal smears, the last thing anyone
                         would want is the lawsuits that would follow when
                         their name was attached to either end of any of the
                         motd attacks.
                         \_ What kind of liability do online discussion boards
                            have for anonymous libel posted to the board?
                            \_ The person who 'wrote' and published the book
                               would certainly have liability.  If 'the CSUA'
                               were to do so then ASUC and/or the UC Regents
                               and/or the Politburo (possibly all of them)
                               would have liability.  You can not escape
                               responsibility for your actions by hiding
                               behind some .org.  The real world just does not
                               work that way.  The RW just isn't that cute.
        \_ Due to potential problems with copyright and liability, how about
           this:  Bundle it all up in some printable electronic form like a
           PDF and put it up free for download.  Then next to that a link that
           says "Suggested CSUA donation: $10".  Copyright is covered because
           it's being distributed electronically for free, just like it was
           when first posted.  Libel issues are not totally covered but you
           could put some disclaimer like "All posting is anonymous.
           Attributions in postings may have been forged."
           \_ huh?  how does making it free solve the copyright problem?
              \_ It's being used in the same way as before:  Free public
                 electronic distribution.
           \_ See?  This is what I mean by 'cute', above.  Who exactly did this
              pdf bundling and zipping and posts the donation link?  That
              person, the politburo, ASUC, and the UC Regents are all good
              lawsuit targets.  Prior politburos who have now graduated but
              kept logs and now have lots of assests are the ones most likely
              to get hurt from this financially.  The CSUA is going to get
              hurt by being shut down by the Regents in the worst case.  Do
              not do stupid things like this for a few lousy $10 donations.
              Why is this not obvious to anyone with a high school education?
2004/10/12 [Reference/Religion] UID:34049 Activity:high
10/11   Why is it that some states insist on using public resources for
        religious purposes and feel that they have the right to do so?
        http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/10/12/10.commandments.ap/index.html
        \_ Why does Senator Byrd (motto: if you're good enough for the Klan
           you're good enough for the Dems) read the Bible on the Senate floor
           in protest of working on Sunday?  Where's the ACLU when you need
           them?
           \_ Dude, the man apologized for joining the Klan and denounced
              them.  Check out the Terry Gross/Fresh Air interview.  If you're
              going to bag on the man, bag on something real.
        \_ you should read up NPR's story on how immigrant view the role
           of religion in USA.  As an immigrant myself, I can tell you the
           pressure to conform to Christianity and/or accepting Christian
           values is enormous.  In many way, USA's tolerance toward other
           religious value was less than  Roman Empire and Ottoman Empire.
           \_ Boo hoo.  What exactly is wrong with Christian values?  Is
              is ok to murder people in your culture?  Fuck your neighbor's
              wife?  Exactly what is your country of origin and what makes
              your values superior to Judeo-Christian values?  Do you know
              *anything* about the Roman Empire?  Their entire deal was all
              about Romanizing conquered peoples so that only a few generations
              later they saw themselves not as whatever they once were but as
              Romans.
              \_ "Christian Values" vary a great amount between Christian
                  groups.  Some like humility, compassion to the poor, the
                  golden rule, etc are great.  It's that some Christians choose
                  to emphasive things like wives submit to their husbands,
                  gays should be killed, premarital sex is evil, convert the
                  heathens...
           \_ are you sure that pressure isn't coming from other members
              of your immigrant community?  i was born and raised in the
              US as an athiest, and have never felt any pressure to
              "conform" to christian religion or culture.  there are about
              30 million Americans who list their religion as "none" and
              probably another three million or so jews, a couple million
              muslims, and who knows how many in weird american cult
              religions like scientology or mormonism.  sure, there's a
              christian majority, but i think it's an exageration to call
              the US a christian country.
           \_ As an immigrant you should've expected that since the US
              is a Western country. Its socio-economics is deeply rooted
              in protestant values, after all it was founded by extremist
              protestants to start off with. You would feel the same had
              you immigrated into any part of Europe. You can't expect to
              immigrate and NOT have to adopt the customs of the country
              you are immigrating to. The fact that the US has many
              enclaves of minorities in which they can feel comfortable in
              is almost unique in the world. If you had actually lived in
              Europe or any other western country you would realize how
              lucky we actually are. If you think it's bad here, you'd be
              shocked in how unnaccepting other countries are (like France).
           \_ Huh?  Have we had Christians torn apart by lions in circuses
              like in the Roman Empire?  Ottoman Empire tolerant?!  Is
              that why they butchered all those Armenians?
              \_ it's an NPR thing.  i loathe NPR, but since some businesses
                 i like to go to insist on playing it, I'm familiar with
                 their "Ottoman Empire was a beacon of tolerance" meme.
                 \_ What in holy batshit are you smoking boy?  I listen to NPR
                    every day and I've never heard anything like this.  Maybe
                    you should stop snorting high-test ibogaine up your
                    nose, take those cotton balls out of your ears, and go
                    shoot a .44 magnum at a couple of jackrabbits.  I swear
                    it will make you feel better.
                    \_ I suppose there is a finite probability that NPR only
                       plays pompous anti-american and anti-isreal propoganda
                       for about 15 minutes a week and it always just happens
                       to correspond to when I hear it...I just think it's
                       a pretty small probablity.
                       \_ Like I said, you really need to work off that
                          paranoia, good buddy.  Turn off Rush Limbaugh and
                          go shoot some jackrabbits.  If NPR is "anti-American"
                          propaganda, I guess you consider Patrick Buchanan
                          to be a "moderate," yes?  Jackrabbits, son.  .44
                          magnum.  And when you've killed enough jackrabbits,
                          consider blowing your own head off so we don't have
                          to listen to your raving.
                          \_ Sorry, but regaurdless of what NPR does
                             or does not broadcast, you're an idiot. -!pp
                             \_ Nope, sorry, I'm an intelligent person
                                entertaining himself with thoughts of
                                the blazing Southwestern sky, frightened
                                jackrabbits, and Mr. Raving Winger's exploded
                                brains all over the concrete.  You're an idiot
                                for taking something on the motd at face
                                value.
                                \_ Right, I never said I took it at face
                                   value.  Not all jokes are funny, some are
                                   just dumb.  Like the above.
                    \_ It won't do anything for the rabbits.  Think of the
                       rabbits!
2004/10/12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:34050 Activity:moderate
10/12   Doonesbury's _this_ close to reading the motd:
        http://www.ucomics.com/doonesbury
        \_ and, since typing in url's from comic strips is annoying...
           here it is:
           http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=45&aid=72659
           \_ thanks!
        \_ Garry Trudeau on Charlie Rose last night... great interview.
           \_ now for once i wish i had watched the charlie rose show - danh
              \_ order the tape
                 http://www.charlierose.com/shop
2004/10/12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Recreation/Food] UID:34051 Activity:high
10/12   What is the wisdom of blowing up an unoccupied restaurant that is
        used as a terrorist meeting place? Why not raid the restaurant on
        the ground while it is actually being used? I doubt the terrorists
        are saying: "Damn! They blew up the restaurant. Now we're
        screwed." They'll just meet somewhere else. This is stupid.
        \_ 1. Hope they get people when they are in the place.
           2. Hope other shop owners will care more and not let them meet
              at their places.
           3. Terrah! 9/11!
           \_ Wouldn't it make more sense to stake it out and actually
              catch the guys?
              \_ Of course not.  Blowing up the place intimidates shopkeepers
                 and has almost no risk of casualties.
                 \_ What about, I dunno, actually catching/killing some
                    terrorists?
2004/10/12 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34052 Activity:very high
10/12   http://electoral-vote.com is now fucked.  What else is anyone using?  Thanks.
        \_ Uh yeah... all the stuff below is nice and all but I just wanted to
           know what other sites people are using that do a similar thing.
           Please post URLs you're using.  Thanks.  --op
        \_ "Given that all the hate mail and threats I get come entirely
           from Republicans, I can make an educated guess which side is
           trying to silence me, but I won't say. And I won't surrender to
           cyberterrorists."
           I dunno, it works for me.
           \_ Fallacious conclusion.  Pubs might be all huff while Dems are DOS
              attack.
              \_ Ever heard of Occam's razor?  The most likely explanation is
              \_ Ever heard of Occam's razor?  The simplest explanation is
                 usually the correct one.
                 \_ [motd fact checker wuz here!]
                    \_ Apparently motd fact checker is an idiot.  He removed my
                       statment: "Apparently you haven't heard of it either.
                       That's not what it says."
                       \_ Tempest, meet Teacup.
           \_ This is precious. Why would a Republican be against a site
              that's currently showing that Bush would win? This is classic
              liberal "I'm being supressed by the Evil Vast Right Wing
              Conspiracy!"
              \_ who knows, maybe the dems are taking a hint from karl rove.
                 there is at least one well documented case of Rove
                 printing up nasty unmarked fliers about his OWN candidate and
                 then dumping them in the middle of the night on
                 voters porchs.  the opposition couldn't really deny it
                 since it would make them look like scum if they drew
                 attention to it.  brilliant. - danh
              \_ Because up until today, it was showing that Kerry would win
                 for several months at least.
                 \_ Are you nuts?  It was showing that Bush would win for
                    pretty much the entire month of September and much of
                    AUgust.
                    \_ Okay, you got me:  Showing a Kerry win for the last
                       month or so, and also pre-GOP-Convention bounce.
                       \_ You're still an idiot.  In this month only 8-11 show
                          Kerry with a lead.
                          \_ You are both mistaken:
                             http://www.electoral-vote.com/info/graph.html
                             \_ Yes, I should talk out of my ass less.
                                But yeah, what I meant was that long two-
                                month period before the GOP Convention, I guess
        \_ Still works fine.
        \_ Try http://www.slate.com/id/2107683
2004/10/12 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34053 Activity:insanely high
10/12   Heh, Teresa Heintz pays 15% in taxes.  Hehehe.  Where's the outrage?
                       \_ Heinz
        \_ Outrage at the Republican-written tax system?  There's plenty.
        \_ Our tax system favors the uber-rich.  She's uber-rich.  So is
           John Kerry.  So are Bush and Cheney, although not quite to the
           same degree.  They're all rich fucking bastards and getting more
           rich by the minute.  This election is all about "pick your favorite
           rich bastard."  I'll take the one that seems like he can actually
           think coherently, thanks.
           \_ also, Teresa Heintz is the *recipient* of the outrageous Bush
              tax cuts.  Bush is the source.  He'd be a bastard even if he
              paid his fair share.
              \_ Heinz and Kerry put their money into tax shelters.  So raising
                 their marginal rate won't help anything.  Kerry's whining is
                 nothing more than class warfare.
                 \_ Whining is not equal to warfare. Except to an idiot
                    libertarian serial overexaggerator.
           \_ Bush has ~$10M.  Kerry/Heinz have ~$1000M.  Two orders of
              magnitude make quite a difference.
              \_ So the rich are EVIIIIIIILLLL if you disagree with them?
                 \_ I don't see any problem with people being rich.  Just
                    pointing out that Heinz/Kerry are two orders of magnitude
                    more rich than Bush.  Saying they're all the same is
                    ridiculous.
                    \_ You have no idea how rich bush actually is..
           \_ You don't *have* to vote for either of them. Vote for psb!
        \_ That's why there's a need to remove the tax break for rich!
           \_ No.  We should all be paying no more than Mrs. Heinz.
                \_ Her 17% is more than you make in your lifetime!
        \_ Haven't you noticed?  The Dem motto is "High taxes for everyone!
           (but me!)"  Also See "Kennedy"
        \_ Nader in 2004!  The only candidate with an established history of
           being *for* the common man and working hard *against* large
           corporations!  -Nader'04
           \_ To quote James Carville, I wouldn't piss down Nader's neck if his
                             \_ AKA Gollum.
                                \_ Huh?
                                   \_ Carville looks like he was beaten with
                                      the ugly stick.
                                      \_ That's rich coming from a FAT SYSADMIN!
                                         \_ You have no idea who posted this.
                                            \_ Doesn't matter.  FAT SYSADMINS
                                               are the STANDARD!
              chest was on fire.
           \_ Not to meantion against the common mans' jobs at said large
              corporations!
        \_ 8 out of 10 richest Congressmen are democrats.  What a surprise.
           The party of the little people indeed.
           \_ Your wealth does not make you for or against a particular class,
              your positions do.  Remind me again which party is in favor of
              taxing dividend income, the Head Start program, socialized
              medicine, and raising the minimum wage.
              \_ However, it is easier to generous with your wealth when you
                 already have so much of it.  Given great wealth, I would
                 hope that most of us would be decent enough to want to give
                 back to society, through either private donation or greater
                 taxation.  The problem is that most of us aren't blessed
                 with great wealth, and those incremental dollars that may
                 not mean much to a Kennedy or a Pelosi might be more
                 meaningful to us.
           \_ sourceP
              \_ #t
              \_ Not the previous poster, and from a highly unreliable
                 source, but http://vikingphoenix.com/public/docs/50rich.txt .
                 7 of top 10 richest member of congress are Democrats, and
                 I am too lazy to filter for just house members.
                 \_ And Kerry's money is actually his wife's as per their
                    prenup. So, it's actually 6-4.
                    \_ I think it's silly to argue over which party have more
                       wealthy members in the Congress.  However, I am a fan
                       of fairness and honesty.  If you use the above-posted
                       list, and you drop Kerry from the number 1 spot, then
                       you end up with 3 tied for the 10th spot, 1 R and 2 D's.
                       So the tally would be 8D-4R.  I suppose that's still
                       better than 7D-3R.
2004/10/12-13 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:34054 Activity:high
10/12   By the way, looks like someone finally put up a paypal link on the
        CSUA page.
        \_ aaron is rich
        \_ sameer got filthy rich from c2 apache mod. Ask sameer for $$$
        \_ What was the UC (Or ASUC?) policy that prevented this? What changed?
           \_ Politburo was concerned that there was a policy that would
              prevent this.  They actually checked with the ASUC and got the
              go-ahead.
        \_ Too bad paypal decided to stop working now.  Worst software upgrade
           EVAR!
2004/10/12-13 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:34055 Activity:very high
10/12   What are some of the most villaineous FICTIONAL vehicles known to
        people? I'll start the list:
        \_ There have to be half a hundred from star trek.
           \_ "S.S. Botany Bay?!"
              \_ Borg cube?
        \_ Christine.
        \_ Didn't KITT have a archenemisis?
           \_ KATT.
           \_ KARR
           \_ Don't forget Goliath, driven by Michael Knight's evil twin.
        \_ Death Star. NOTHING beats the villaineous level of Death Star
        \_ The Ford Explorer.  Read:
    http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=0060090588
           \_ Explorer is fictional?
        \_ General Lee. "Good ol' boys" my ass...
           \_ Hate any white people, lately?
        \_ The Mobile Chemical/Biological Lab.  Powell said it was!
        \_ The Popemobile
        \_ The Love Bug
        \_ Barbie's Corvette
        \_ Toss-up between PUSSY WAGON and that tan station wagon driven by
           the Illinois nazis in Blues Brothers.  -John
        \_ Are we talking about movies/tv shows or books?  Gray Area
           a.k.a. Meatfucker was pretty evil... but I am not sure he qualifies
           as a 'vehicle.' -- ilyas
                \_ Only in a Hannibal Lecter only-scoops-and-eats-brains-of-
                   mean-people "evil" kind of way.  That said, would you
                   classify Skaffen-Amtiskaw or Mawhrin-Skel/Flere-Imsaho as
                   "vehicles"?  They're "evil" in the same way.  </geek> -John
        \_ There's the evil truck from "The Duel".
2004/10/12 [Uncategorized] UID:34056 Activity:nil
10/12   Would you stand on a corner holding a sign and dancing?
        How much do they get paid?
        \_ Is Master Shake shilling for Quiznos again?
2004/10/12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34057 Activity:nil
10/12   How much do you want to bet that the CIA has one more bullet
        left in its belt to go against Bush? Valerie Plame???
        http://csua.org/u/9fi
        \_ It's difficult for me to say whether there is a vendetta like the
           article says, there is a genuine urge to publish accurate
           intelligence briefs that can't be spun by Dubya, or some
           combination of this
2004/10/12 [Uncategorized] UID:34058 Activity:nil
10/12   CHOCO-PIE!  CHOCO-PIE IS THE SNACK FOOD STANDARD!
        \_ HAPPY CAKE!  HAPPY CAKE IS THE STANDARD!
2004/10/12 [Politics] UID:34059 Activity:nil
10/12   I know some people who truly believe that the government
        was in on 9/11. Does anyone else believe that too? Is this
        old news?
2004/10/12 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:34060 Activity:very high
10/12   What is the election is close enough that the Colorado initiative
        to split their electoral votes decides the election? Which way
        would the USSC rule?
        \_ USSC is pwned by Bush/Cheney.  I think it would pretty much be a
           foregone conclusion.  That said, I think the scenario (Bush wins
           Colorado && initiative passes) is pretty unlikely.
        \_ On the basis of historical precedent, states have been allowed to
           choose how they allocate electoral votes, but I'd count on this
           court to cook up some argument to throw it out.
           \_ The US Constitution allows the state legislature to choose the
              method for allocating electoral votes.  The CO initiative
              bypasses the legislature and IMO should be ruled
              unconstitutional.
              \_ This really is the key issue here.  Under the Const.
                 the legislature has manifest power over how electors are
                 chosen.  Even if it passes it won't take effect for this
                 election because of legal contests.
              \_ Well, it obviously allows the legislatures to defer that
                 responsibility to the voters.
                 \_ Show me anything in Article II Section 1 that "obviously"
                    says that.
                    \_ OK, why do the states let popular vote decide who gets
                       the electors?
                       \_ That's how the legislatures wrote their state laws.
                          Some states already split electoral votes based on
                          popular vote.
        \_ Maine does it.  Why can't Colorado?  Is it a "If it passes, it
           shouldn't apply until the NEXT election" kind of issue?
           \_ Well the initiative is written so that it would apply to this
              election, so it's not like you could argue the voters are being
              tricked.
              \_ Who is saying the voters are being tricked?
                 I'm talking about the candidates having the rules "change"
                 on them during the election, and perhaps this being "illegal".
                 \_ Responding to myself:  Okay, the earlier thread makes
                    sense.  The question is, does legislature == the people or
                    legislature != the people, for the purposes of
                    USC Article II Section 1 on apportioning electoral votes.
                    \_ I don't see why you can't have a state constitutional
                       amendment saying "the legislature shall do such-and-
                       such..."
                       \_ It would be pretty funny if the USSC wrote something
                          like, "the spirit of the electoral college was to
                          prevent the tyranny of the masses, so legislature !=
                          the people in this case".
                          \_ Why would this be funny?  We're a republic, not a
                             democracy.
                             \_ We're whatever is required to most benefit the
                                dominant party, which at the moment happens to
                                be the Republicans.
                             \_ It would be funny because the people might end
                                up pissed.  This is independent of the intent
                                of the framers of the Constitution.  Duh.
2004/10/12 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:34061 Activity:moderate
10/12   http://tinyurl.com/5tt2y
        Bush/Kerry car with illustrations (humor link)
2004/10/12 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34062 Activity:insanely high
10/12   http://www.democrats.org/action/200410120001.html
        Sinclair is going to broadcast anti-Kerry stuff that looks like
        a documentary. Sign the petition now!!!
        \_ You know it would be a real test if we drop both Bush and Kerry
           in the middle of a war in Iraq. What do you think will happen?
           I think one of them is going to shit his pants!
           \_ Kerry can patrol the Tigris and Euphrates, and Dubya can help
              with the Iraqi National Guard.  Yee-haw!!
              \_ Kerry will be only slightly heroic and Bush will be grounded
                 for failing to take his physical when he goes off to help
                 Alawi's election campaign.
        \_ What about the "Long War of John Kerry"?  Leftist films are ok
           but conservative are not?  Oh that's right, this is Berkeley.
           Sinclair offered the Kerry campaign equal time.
           \_ No they didn't. They offered a rebuttal, not the same thing.
              Who is playing the Long War?
              \_ Movie theatres.  How the hell should I know.  So the
                 testimony of Vietnam POWs, some there 6+ years, is not
                 news?
                 \_ What testimony?  That they felt betrayed by the anti-war
                    movement?  No, this is not news; this is a trope from the
                    the whole Vietnam-era milieu.
                    \_ Sundance and others run anti-Bush springsteen shows...
                       where's the outrage?
                       \_ People can choose to go to those shows or not.
                          It has been a long-standing tradition in this country
                          that broadcast stations (radio and television
                          through the air) are a public resource.  Hence,
                          for example, indecency restrictions on broadcast TV.
                          You can't see the difference?
                          \_ Especially since the networks get their licenses
                             for almost nothing.
2004/10/12-13 [Academia/UCLA, Recreation/Sports] UID:34063 Activity:low
10/12   How long will we be able to keep Tedford?
        http://csua.org/u/9fm
        http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6195155
2004/10/12 [ERROR, uid:34064, category id '18005#2' has no name! , ] UID:34064 Activity:nil 66%like:32720 57%like:32727 80%like:33282
10/12      SWIFT BOAT!
                \
                  _____/\_/\______
                 "~~~,-.,~. ",~~~~"
                    (, (,  ) \
                     -="=-"   \
                    /          \
                  ,'     ,.-:   \
               `,' `. ,~'   !    \
              -( :";|' ,+,  '     \
                \`'   C_.','
                '`---~--~"
                       |
              .
2004/10/12 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:34065 Activity:nil
10/12   Only what I want to talk about matters and I will keep posting it
        and reposting it ad initium forever. Get used to it.
        \_ Your system is low on virtual memory. Windows is increasing the
           size of your Virtual Memory Paging file.
2004/10/12 [ERROR, uid:34066, category id '18005#48' has no name! , ] UID:34066 Activity:nil
10/12   SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT
        SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT
        SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT
        SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT SWIFT BOAT
        \_ Fahrenheit 9/11!
2004/10/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:34067 Activity:high
10/12   Bud Day's biography.  http://csua.org/u/9fv
        \_ GW Bush's biography.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush
           \_ I don't think anyone can argue that W was a war hero of any
              stripe.  I also don't think anyone can argue that Bud Day was
              anything but heroic.  I hope that we will think on Day's
              service to his country before we choose to deride him.
              \_ He's a great soldier.  That doesn't make him any more
                 more qualified to talk politics though.
                 \_ Argue against his position, then, but respect the man.
                    It's uncalled for and childish to play silly games like
                    changing his name to "Bad Day".  He had a bad day when
                    he was captured by the Vietcons.  He had a bad 6 years
                    when he was a POW.  I wonder what was the worst day ever
                    suffered by Mr. "Bad Day".
                    \_ It's uncalled for and childish to keep deleting
                       other people's posts and keeping yours.  If you
                       can't learn to respect other people's posts,
                       stop whining when other people mess with yours.
                    \_ Being a hero is not something to be mocked for, but it
                       doesn't grant you immunity from being mocked for other
                       reasons.
                       \_ I guess we disagree then.  I don't mock those whom
                          I respect, no matter how vehemently we may disagree.
                          I would think that Bud Day is worthy of great
                          respect.  He has earned that privilege.
                    \_ Just going out on a limb here, but I don't think that
                       Mr. "Bad Day" is making fun of Bud Day.  I think he's
                       making fun of the op.
                       \_ Who knows what the intentions of Mr. "Bad Day" were?
                          Only the man himself.  However, there are ways to
                          make fun of the op without at the same time
                          belittling Bud Day.  Deriding Bud Day and letting
                          that pass unchallenged diminishes all of us.
                          \_ did you go to boarding school in Connecticut?
                          \_ Yeesh, what a pompous windbag.
                             \_ And you wonder why veterans tend to vote
                                Republican?
                                \_ No, I don't -- it has nothing to do
                                   with this discussion.
                                   \_ No, you wouldn't think so.  That's why
                                      veterans vote Republican.
                                      \_ No, actually, it's probably not. No
                                         cookie for you!
                                \_ Bud Day isn't a pompous windbag.  pp is.
                                   Your inability to distinguish between the
                                   two is part of what makes you a pompous
                                   windbag.
        \_ The man's a hero and former POW.  Many heroes and POWs thought
           the antiwar movement was a betrayal of the troops.  Many heroes
           and former POWs also joined the antiwar movement.  The real
           villains in all of this were the ones who stood silent.
        \_ So which of his actions were worthy of the MOH? He survived a
           bunch of torture and wounds. I've read stories on some site about
           WWII citations that sounded far more incredible than this. Other
           than undertaking an escape from certain torture/possible death,
           the dangers are not of his own choice. It's like the difference
           between a guy escaping a burning building versus a guy running
           inside to rescue somebody. In any case his arguments seem one-
           sided and unconvincing.
           \_ Don't go there.  Questioning how much someone suffered/risked to
              earn their medals is unseemly.  How much have you bled for your
              country?
              \_ Oh, I see.  So its okay to question Kerry's medals, but not
                 this guy's medals.  Seems logical.
                 \_ I'm a Kerry contributer. -pp
                 \- I think it is reasonable to trade off between "character
                    issues" and policy preference when it comes to a political
                    candidate. e.g. it seems reasonable to hold Clinton's
                    infidelity against him, but not fair to pin Vince Foster's
                    suicide on him. I can reasonably see a veteran not being
                    able to forgive Kerry for his "betrayal" after he returned
                    from Vietnam. I personally think this is more than offset
                    by Bush's avoiding service, his avoiding responsibility
                    for stuff like Abu Graib, his disregard for frankness and
                    the truth, but then again I am not a verteran who may feel
                    the betrayal far more viscerally than I would. However,
                    while his post-service conduct may be a fair issue, the
                    swiftboat stuff is just a sleazy smear. --psb
2004/10/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34068 Activity:high
10/12   Pulled from the trolling/countertrolling below:
        \_ The man's a hero and former POW.  Many heroes and POWs thought
           the antiwar movement was a betrayal of the troops.  Many heroes
           and former POWs also joined the antiwar movement.  The real
           villains in all of this were the ones who stood silent.
           \_ Yeah many heroes threw their medals back and testified
              before Congress about fake atrocities, and met with the enemy
              while under service. Yeah, many former heroes also have their
              picture of the meeting with the enemy hanging in the enemy's
              museum dedicated to the defeat of America.
              \_ See, now you're just lying.  He was testifying about the
                 problems in Vietnam, of which war crimes were certainly a
                 a part.  Do you feel that any enemy contact-- say, to
                 end the war diplomatically-- is also treason?  The Vietnam
                 war was a disaster, and while the treatment of vets was
                 atrocious, it doesn't make Kerry's contribution to its halt
                 any less honorable.
                 \_ I guess you never served. I guess you are not clear about
                    the military obeys orders and does NOT dictate policy.
                    Esp. diplomacy.
                    \_ Kerry wasn't "the military" in that context, and wasn't
                       "dictating" policy. I guess you're stupid.
                       \_ He was in the military and talking to the enemy
                          that in itself is a violation of the UCMJ.
                    \_ What, and you did?  Look, if you're a soldier who
                       feels betrayed by what Kerry did after he got back
                       from the war, say so.  Stop all this proxy baiting.
              \_ Yay!  A Partisan tool!
                 \_ No, a son of a Vietnam Vet.
                    \_ Yay!  Also a partisan tool!
2004/10/12-13 [ERROR, uid:34069, category id '18005#13.6062' has no name! , ] UID:34069 Activity:very high
10/12   Why does someone keep deleting my polite request for links to sites
        similar to http://electoral-vote.com?  Actually, I don't care why.  Please
        stop.  Please post links to sites similar to http://electoral-vote.com.
        Thank you.
        \_ I imagine there are a limited number of similar sites... doesn't
           explain the deletions but perhaps the lack of response.  OTOH,
           you probably deserve it for not being able to use google.
        \_ USELESS MOTD IS THE STANDARD!  WHY DO YOU HATE A USELESS MOTD?
           \_ Would you rather trample the politburo or the motd?
              \_ WHY DO YOU HATE OXEN?
                 \_ What, too good for burros? Burros! Burros! BURROS!
                    BURROS IS THE STANDARD!  Motd pack-animal.
        \_ This is not about Bud Day. Please try to stay on topic.
        \_ Ok, now I'm pissed too.  Use a fucking search engine already.
           I'm going to delete your post pretty soon too.
           \_ Hi jerk!  Thank you for deleting the only topic on the motd
              that wasn't troll bait, full of vitriol, or both.
        \_I like http://mydd.com's electoral vote tallier, as it does not include
          tracking polls.
        \_ I told you already, this has nothing to do with Bud Day. No one
           is interested in your off topic post.
2004/10/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Science/Biology, Health/Disease/General] UID:34070 Activity:very high
10/12   "We will stop juvenile diabetes, Parkinson's,
        Alzheimer's and other debilitating diseases. America just
        lost a great champion for this cause in Christopher Reeve.
        People like Chris Reeve will get out of their wheelchairs
        and walk again with stem cell research."
        -John Edwards.  Hallelujah!
        \_ Let me guess, you have a problem with that. Would you
           be more satisfied if he said he plans to leave everyone
           with those diseases to suffer while we spend our money
           on other things?
           \_ I have a problem with Edwards promising millions of sick
              people something he can't deliver in a cynical attemp to
              get votes from the desperately ill.  You're ok with that.
        \_ We need less Homer Simpsons, and more money for public schools!
        \_ But what does Bud Day think about this???
                \_ Why do you hate Bud Day?
2004/10/12-13 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:34071 Activity:high
10/12   WWII hero:
        http://tinyurl.com/3mtzq
        \_ Bud Day was more heroic.
2004/10/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:34072 Activity:very high
10/12   Why doesn't John Kerry just tell the bitter Viet vets that
        when he becomes the president, he'll help them get medals
        and recognition and put up a national memorial site? Wouldn't
        that just shup these bitter vets up?
        \_ Obviously you never served. BTW, there already is Vietnam
           Memorial.
           \_ obviously, 99.9% of the motd posters/readers have never served.
              \_ what, and risk getting maimed or killed? of course not.
        \_ Bud Day fought in Vietnam.
                Bud Day!  Bud Day is the Standard!
        \_ Let's look at what you say.  They're bitter.  Why is that?  Are
           they angry at the US government?  No.  They're angry at Kerry for
           his actions and statements.  Why would building a monument and
           handing out some more ribbons make them hate him any less?  Why
           do you have so little respect for the men and women in our armed
           forces?
2004/10/12-13 [Computer/SW/Unix/WindowManager] UID:34073 Activity:very high
10/12   Gnome or KDE?
        Is gnome catching up with KDE? surpassing it?  Do you guys think
        gnome eventually going to be the dominating gui for linux platform?
        \_ Download Knoppix and try it out.  You don't even need to install,
           just put it in the cd tray and reboot.
        \_ The only reason I use Gnome is the gnome-pannel and gnome-terminal,
           because I am sick of fucking with .Xresources files and the
           config files for traditional unix window managers. However,
           I don't really use any other Gnome features beyond that. I have
           tried KDE and found it to be too intrussive and too "Windows"-ish
           for my minimalist tastes.
        \_ Aqua.
        \_ Bud Day uses windows.
                \_ Of course you realize, this will destabilize Bud Day for
                   decades to come.
2004/10/12-13 [Reference/BayArea] UID:34074 Activity:moderate
10/12   Need recommendations for a good contractor for home remodeling.
        Email me.  -tonytung
        \_ Uh. Where?
        \_ Bud Day probably knows one. Why don't you ask him?
           \_ Bay Area
                \_ Which part of bay area?  A southbay contractor will not
                   do remodeling in the north bay.
                   \_ South bay.
                      \_ Does he need to be legal?  I can recommend the guy
                         the guy thats doing work for me right now, but he
                         mainly speaks Cantonese.  Works by himself most of
                         the time, so he's best for smaller jobs, but I'm
                         having him do both bathrooms, kitchen, and entrance.
2004/10/12-13 [Uncategorized] UID:34075 Activity:high
10/12   Fold up bridge:
        http://www.newspad.co.uk/Go/News/lateststories/bridgefive.htm
        \_ Did Bud Day design this?
2017/09/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:October:12 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>