10/6    John Edwards continued the Democratic ticket's winning streak in
        Tuesday night's vice presidential debate. He was judged the winner by
        uncommitted voters who watched the debate, just as John Kerry was last
        week. Forty-one percent of these uncommitted debate watchers said
        Edwards won the encounter, while 28 percent chose Vice President Dick
        Cheney. Another 31 percent thought it was a tie.
        http://csua.org/u/9ce
        \_ Wow.  This was not the impression of any of the people I talked with
           tonight, all of whom thought that Edwards came off as a moron.  All
           these people were very liberal, yet a number of them suggested that
           after this debate they'd prefer a Kerry/Cheney ticket.  This despite
           thinking that Cheney's an evil bastard.
           \_ After tonight's debate, I more thought Cheney was wrong in
              addition to being evil.  Stylewise, Cheney had strengths as well
              as Edwards, and I say Edwards edged him out on clarity.
              Content-wise, Edwards won.  Gaffe-wise, Cheney won with not any
              of the nervous mistakes as Edwards made, which is what I think
              your friends were thinking of.  Keep in mind that Dubya's gaffes
              pointed more to his intellectual capacity than Edward's mistakes
              to his lack of experience talking with Cheney. -liberal
        \_ Yeah, above poster is right.  Your guy got pwned.  Own up!
           \_ I was the "own up" guy in the Dubya/Kerry debate.  I won't say
              own up on this one, since it wasn't the embarrassment that the
              first debate was.

10/4    This seems a bit...unfair.
        http://tinyurl.com/45qwp
        \_ fairness is when you're in kindergarten and a kid steals
           your candy bar and you cry and the teacher spanks that kid.
           GWB wasn't born with the gift of logic and speech, is that
           fair? Cheney wasn't born with nice hair and nice white
           teeth, is that fair? Get real you hippies and liberals,
           there is no such a thing as fairness in the real world.
           \_ Everyone look at the cynical heartless Republican!
        \_ Not really.  Networks are supposed to give equal air time to
           political ads from the two parties leading up to the election,
           so the speech probably won't be carried on network TV.

10/4    Why haven't the Democrats cash in on catchy phrases like
        "I Like Ike"? I mean, I can already come up with simple stuff
        like "We want John and John!" or "Vote for
        JFK again!" or "President Kerry Carries Your Worries!"
        \_ If I may volunteer, the electoral mood is serious and worried about
           the future, and "I like Ike!" sounds flippant.  And your suggestions
           stink.

10/4    "if you compare the language used to describe Jeffords to the
        language used to describe Zell Miller [after the Democrat's
        pro-Bush speech at Republican convention],
        you will know almost everything you need to know about the
        modern media."
        Remembrance of Contracts Past
        http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/691zjgqk.asp
        \_ Except Jeffords is right, and Miller is wrong.
           \_ I know nothing of Jeffords, but Miller tried to challenge
              his interviewer to a duel.  Now THAT'S news.
              \_ Honk if you demand satisfaction!

10/4    Ever wonder why ilyas posts have diminished in the past few
        days? It's because ilyas now posts as Mr. liberal.  !liberal
        \_ Posting to the motd is a great way to avoid becoming "Dr. liberal."
        \_ Actually it's because school started. -- ilyas
        \_ BAITING ILYAS IS THE STANDARD!
        \_ He must be schizophrenic, because I post as "-liberal" but he
           always argues with me.
        \_ He must be schizophrenic, because he always argues with "-liberal"
           (which I actually sign with)
           \_ Schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder are not the
              same disorder. -- ilyas
              \_ Schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder are the
                 same disorder. -- ilyas

10/6    aaron the philanthropist, now that you're a rich Googler (you've been
        with the company since 1998, no?), how much are you going to donate
        to CSUA?                     \_ no. --aaron
        \_ In the old days we got as much money as we could and spent
           the excess on nice things like volleyball equipments,
           beach party stuff, video games, etc.  I'd imagine the
           current politburo could have asked for lots of money and
           squander them on XBox, games, PDAs, and other things. The
           fact that it hasn't probably means that they've turned
           into nice honest people or something.

10/6    in honor of Rodney, " i get no respect, i get spam automatically
        rejecting me for home loans "
        \_ " i get no respect, i get spam asking me to turn off my webcam"
        \_ I hear that they're donating his body to science fiction. No
           respect, I tell you, not even in death. (RIP)
        \_ "I get no respect, my MOTD trolls don't even get nuked."
        \_ "I get no respect, <DEAD>Make-my-penis-grow.com<DEAD> thanked me for buying
            from http://TeenGirlz.com"

10/6    If you look in the transcript of last night's debate, Cheney said
        the following:  (from http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004b.html
        "...They know that if you go, for example, to http://factcheck.com (sic),
        an independent Web site sponsored by the University of Pennsylvania,
        you can get the specific details with respect to Halliburton."
        Try it.  go wo http://www.factcheck.com  oops.
        I wonder exactly how this happened.
        \_ Here's the story:
           http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12901-2004Oct6.html
        \_ whois http://factcheck.com:
        Registrant:       (I bet it's an offshore Halliburton subsidiary)
         Name Administration Inc. (BVI)
         Box 10518 A.P.O.
         Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands B.W.I.
        \_ this is already all over the blogs
        \_ It now redirects to Location: http://www.georgesoros.com
           "George Soros, the billionaire investor and philanthropist, is
            beginning a nationwide tour this week to talk about how the war
            in Iraq is making America less safe -- and why President Bush
            should not be re-elected." How wierd..
            should not be re-elected." How weird..
        \_ slate claims Soros took advantage of Cheney's blunder and bought
           up http://factcheck.com.
           http://slate.msn.com/id/2107809
           Is this even possible? Could the domain name propagation even
           happen that fast?
           \_ It's more likely someone already owned the domain and put in
              a redirect.
                \_ slate has corrected the article to state this.

10/6    Is http://www.cameraworld.com and http://www.wolfcamera.com the same company?  Many
        of their web pages look almost identical except the background color.
        \_ A simple whois query shows that they are both owned by Ritz Camera.
           \_ % whois http://www.cameraworld.com
              ......
              No match for "<DEAD>WWW.CAMERAWORLD.COM"<DEAD>
              \_ % whois http://www.yahoo.com
                 [...]
                 No match for "<DEAD>WWW.YAHOO.COM"<DEAD>
                 Does this mean there's no yahoo?  Or does this mean you're
                 an idiot?
                 \_ Where did I say that whois having no match for a host
                    implies there's no such host?
                    \_ You're right.  I should just have said "Does this mean
                       you're an idiot?".
                       \_ Line 97 of the man page says that I can pass the
                          domain name as the argument to "whois" without any
                          option.  That's what I did.  If you think I'm an
                          idiot in using "whois", please point out the correct
                          usage.
                          \_ I don't think you know what domain name means.
                             \_ Ah!  I forgot.  It works now.  Thank you!

10/4    I'd like to spam my democratic friends with republican
        campaign emails so that they'd get pissed and donate to
        the democrats. What's the best way to do this?
        \_ Attn: motd gun nuts:  I'd like to shoot the op.  What gun would
           give me the greatest chance of doing this and not getting caught?
           \_ A fictional one, you jackass.

10/6    What's a good video card with DVI output to drive a LCD at
        1600x1200? Something not too expensive, under $100? I get
        confused looking at all the brands at newegg. Maybe something
        with Nvidia chipset? Thanks.
        \_ Can't all of the ones with DVI-out do this? -!LCD user
        \_ what's the highest resolution on LCDs nowadays?
           \_ There's that insane Apple LCD which is 2500x1600, but it requires
              *two* DVI inputs, for bandwidth reasons, I believe.
        \_ I went to http://newegg.com, went to the video cards section, clicked
           the option for 1 DVI port, clicked search, sorted by Best Rating,
           and this is a 25-review 5-star-rated $51 card:
           http://csua.org/u/9cl  Sapphire Radeon 9000 Pro 64MB 4x AGP
           \_ Radeon 9000 is not DirectX-9 supporting.  If that matters to you
              (you need good T&L and vertex shader programs) then consider
              moving up to a Radeon 9600.
              \_ If you're considering a Radeon 9600, might as well get a
                 9600XT, but then that's $165 already for the genuine ATI;
                 and if you're considering a 9600XT, might as well get an
                 Nvidia FX5900XT, which performs better at about the same
                 price.
                 For a plain 9600, while you can get sub $90 cards, I don't
                 know about "Connect3D" or "Rosewill" as manufacturers,
                 although I do see a Sapphire Radeon 9600SE for $70 ...
                 op should also check if their mobo can fit the card -- check
                 the manual for whether it supports 1x-8x AGP cards and the
                 voltage, and then check the card's multiplier and voltage.
                 \_ Generally speaking, AGP cards can step down to talk at the
                    slower speed for older MBs.
                    \_ I actually had a problem where I ordered a 9600 SE
                       and it didn't fit in the AGP slot for a computer with
                       a 300 MHz Celeron.
                       \_ But was that an AGP problem or a mechanical problem?
                          \_ The mobo supported a particular voltage
                             which the card did not; the card was notched
                             in a way that prevented it from being inserted.
                             But yeah, it is primarily a voltage issue, not
                             an 1x-8x speed issue, since the card will
                             downclock
                 \_ The Sapphire non-SE is $95, which is within OP's
                   requirements
                   \_ What is wrong with the SE?
                      \_ Without looking at the specs, I can tell you SE's are
                         generally cards with a lower clock speed and/or fewer
                         vertex and texture units.  That may or may not bother
                         the OP.
                      \_ SE has bad price/perf.  I have one.  Get a 9600 or
                         some Nvidia card if you budgeted $100.  Basically it
                         is the memory bandwidth, pipelines, or clock
                         freq -- I forget, but I did look at this before.
                      \_ Whatever you pick, make sure it has at least 128-bit
                         DDR interface and don't spend extra for >128MB RAM
                         at that price point. Actually if you don't care about
                         games maybe you should just get the cheapest damn
                         thing. If you do care about games, you should spend
                         ~$150+. If you wait a bit the latest generation in
                         that price range will be out (X700 series) which
                         will have better price/performance. An X700 non-pro
                         has 8 pixel pipelines (9600 has 4) and "a lot" of
                         vertex shader power, MSRP $150.
                         \_ FYI, 9600 SE has a 64-bit memory interface.
                            9600 and 9600 XT has 128.  XT is clocked faster
                            and is on a smaller process I think.
             \_ Has anyone used Asus video cards? Asus 9520TD, $84. -op
                \_ Asus video cards are fine.  I think I have one, but not that
                   model.  Look to the user reviews for more.
             \_ I got a used 9600 SE for $45 on Ebay. -ausman
             \_ I got a used 9600 SE for $45 on Ebay. I spent half a day
                installing it because my motherboard had problems handling
                it at 4X AGP mode, but finally got it to work without
                hanging at 2X AGP mode. Now I can play BF 1942 without
                problems. -ausman

10/6    I'm trying to beat a radar speeding ticket on "speed trap" grounds.
        I want to see if I can find the Engineering & Traffic "Speed Zone"
        Survey for that road to see if the speed limit's set too low, or a
        survey wasn't done recently enough.  Does anyone know how or where
        you go about obtaining these?
        \_ if you haven't already, snag a copy of the 'fight your ticket'
            book from nolo press.  It covers all of this stuff, in good
            detail..  -- Been there, done that, beat my ticket.
        \_ Pay the fine you ass! Or drive slower.
           \_ Pay the fine AND drive slower!
           \_ Speeding tickets are an underhanded regressive tax for the
              most part. If the system cared more abouit safety and less
              about raising money enforcement would be on other things.
              \_ As long as the speed limit is set in a sane way, I'm fine
                 with speeding tickets.  It would be interesting if we had a
                 system where your fine was proportional to your income, like
                 some Scandinavian countries.
           \_ The argument here is about the speed limit being set wrong
              (specifically, that it's lower than the speed at which 85% of
              people actually drive on that stretch), not about cheating the
              system.
              \_ 85% of people deciding to break the law doesn't make breaking
                 the law right.  85% of people deciding to drive above the
                 speed limit doesn't necessarily mean speeds above that limit
                 are safe.
                 \_ Perhaps, but it makes enforcement arbitrary
                     and hypocritical.  Especially when approaching 100% of
                     cops and politicians speed. (and the number for the
                     general populace is closer to 95%)
                     \_ In these situations, to avoid being pulled over, do not
                        be passing people, changing lanes, or young and black.
                        \_ you forgot having out of state plates in BFE states.
                 \_ It also makes driving below the speed limit dangerous,
                    when everyone is tailgating you, or speeding pass and
                    then cutting in front of you.
                 \_ "85%...doesn't make right."  You know... we live in a
                    democracy.  Laws exist to serve the people, not the other
                    way around.  If the majority of people break a law, I
                    believe that by definition makes it "right" in our society.
                    \_ If the majority of restaurant waiters evade tax by not
                       reporting all their tips to IRS, does that make not
                       paying tax on tips right?
                       \_ you've never waited tables, have you?
                          \_ No, but I've tipped at restaurants and I've seen
                             how much the waiters collect in one hour.  Anyway
                             is this relevant to the point?
                             \_ maybe yes, maybe no.  I'm not really that
                                interested in this debate.  my point is that
                                compliance with taxes on cash tips is probably
                                less than a tenth of a percent in most
                                places.
                                \_ The IRS collects taxes on the imputed
                                   value of tips collected to counter this.
                       \_ That's a false comparison.  The correct comparison
                          would be "majority of taxpayers all not claiming
                          gratuity income"  Good luck finding that.  If the
                          majority of americans cheated in the same way on
                          their taxes, then yes, I think that way of "cheating"
                          should become legal.
                          \_ Wrong.  The first poster who quoted 85% wrote
                             "... lower than the speed at which 85% of people
                             actually drive ON THAT STRETCH".  The correct
                             comparison is "if the majority of WAITERS don't
                             report tip income", not "if the majority of
                             taxpayers don't report tip income".  On the other
                             hand, if what the first poster wrote were "...
                             lower than the speed at which 85% of people
                             actually drive IN AMERICA", the correct comparison
                             would be "if the majority of TAXPAYERS don't
                             report tip income".  See the association?
                             \_ Ah, but you're ignoring the "who it effects"
                             \_ Ah, but you're ignoring the "who it affects"
                                facet.  Speeding affects... people who drive
                                on that road.  Federal tax evasion affects all
                                taxpayers (and some non-taxpayers) in one way
                                or another, hence they are involved in the
                                majority.
        \_ what many folks here dont realize  (and would if you bothered to
          read the nolo book, is the letter of the law (at least in california)
          isn't against violating some arbitrary limit of speed (unless you
          were going over say 70mph), but that the speed was fast enough to
          be 'dangerous'.  This 'fuzzy' definition provides for lots of
          flexibility to the defendant, as the cops now have to *prove* the
          speed was dangerous.  Usually they use the traffic engineering
          studies to estabilsh a 'prima facie' speed limit that anything over
          is *assumed* dangerous and this is the posted 'maximum speed limit'
          you see..  But you still have room to argue against this, as there
          are a number of things that you can attack on the traffic study,
          including the 85 percentile speed travelled speed that the OP
          mentioned..  Do you research, show up to court prepared, and argue
          your case.  If you dont have a good argument, maybe you were driving
          hazardously, and should just pay up and not deal with the hassle.
          \_ Is over 70 always indefensible?
                \_ I've driven numerous times on roads with limit 75.
        \_ I bet you are a democrat, right?
           \_ See, AMC, what happens when you censor political threads? Now
              we start to pollute other threads.

10/4    Segway specs vs regular scooter spec, round 1:
        http://science.howstuffworks.com/ginger4.htm
        http://store.yahoo.com/yhst-14938104255359/x360.html
        Summary, Segway tops at 12.5mph, 80 lbs, 17 mile range, $3000.
        Regular scooter tops at 21mph, 59 lbs, 20 mile range, $149.
        Sure Segway looks cooler, but is looks really worth it?
        \_ why not compare the segway to motorcycles, golf carts, cars,
           roller blades, bicycles, and skateboards?  I think it comes out
           as inferior in all of the above comparisons.  you may have found the
           one form of transport that's *almost* as retarted as the segway.
           \_ Segway is inferior to scooter in all four categories above.
              \_ well, then we agree on that.  my only point was that compared
                 to the scooter on just those categories, the segway is
                 a *bit* crappy, but that in a comparison with more categories
                 and more modes of transportation, it just gets worse.
                 \_ You are stupid. Rollerblades and bicycles aren't in the
                    same category. And 20x more expensive with significantly
                    worse performance is more than a *bit* crappy. And the
                    word is "retarded". --God
                    \_ God? I think not.  you're a dorky little scooter boy
                       who wants to defend your stupid scooter by attacking
                       the *only* more idiotic form of transport on the market.
                       \_ RAZR SCOOTER IS TEH ROXOR!!
                       \_ Well I am God. And I'm not the scooter boy. I just
                          decided to come along and smack your ass down. Bitch.
              \_ Segway is superior at dropping Bush on his ass.
                 \_ The mountain bike spill which was blamed on mud after
                    10 days of no rain did a lot more damage than the
                    Segway tumble. I think the bike wins. He got facial cuts!
                    \_ Just to be technical, having 10 days of no
                       rain doesn't mean there's no mud.
                       \_ except the quote from the spokesman was "It's been
                          raining a lot lately and the topsoil is loose."
        \_ prestige, my friend. It's like buying Mercedes vs. Infinity.
           Same features, different pricing, different prestige
           \_ So what does being the owner of a Segway say about you?

10/6    A nice summary at the end of the article about what was expected in
        Iraq and what WMD were found:  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6190720
        \_ Bush: history of using WMD makes Iraq dangerous.  Err... I am
           confused. I thought we were the one who nuked defenseless cities.
           We were the one who gave Japan "get out of jail free" card, and
           Japanese still hold record on the scale of using chemical/
           biological weapon.

10/6    I just found out about a way to get (supposedly) free WAP2.0 on my
        phone.  Anyone have some good WAP sites I should check out?

10/6    Key findings on Iraq WMDs released today:
      http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/Comp_Report_Key_Findings.pdf
        Summary:  No WMDs, no real WMD programs, no mention of Syria,
        but all the intent in the world to make WMDs after inspectors left to
        protect it from Iran based on interviews w/ Saddam while in the pokey.
        No irrefutable written evidence of this intent.
        I.e., if Dubya did not attack, Blix would have found nothing,
        inspectors would leave, Iraq would have sanctions lifted, Saddam would
                                \_ inspections would have continued, nice try
        be a happy camper and *maybe* actually do restart WMD programs.
        The U.S. would get real evidence that Iraq had WMDs, inspectors would
        be requested, Saddam says no, we get a resolution to attack based on a
        *real* WMD / WMD-program presentation to the UN, and if the CIA did
        its job we go in when the capability is in its infant stages.
        Instead ... Iran and North Korea are having a ball doing whatever the
        hell they want with nuclear while the U.S. is overstretched -- while
        the U.S. holds no credible threat to mounting an preemptive military
        campaign on these two countries.  Iran and North Korea view the U.S.
        as their principal threat, and having nukes deter this threat very
        effectively.
        Here, I even have text Kerry could use:
        "But didn't your vice president say that the number one threat today
        was nuclear?  First, let's grant that the U.S. has had important
        successes in Libya and Pakistan, which were resolved with diplomacy
        by the way.  But a more important question is:  Aren't we so
        overstretched -- of the 10 Army divisions that the United States
        has, nine are in Iraq or preparing to transfer there -- that Iran
        and North Korea can now wave the nuclear card at us with impunity?
        That is, the U.S. is so *overstretched* that it does not have a
        credible threat for a military campaign against either of these two
        countries, that they have been able to proceed with their nuclear
        programs without fear of consequences?  That the invasion of Iraq for
        WMDs and WMD programs that weren't there, and the loss of important
        allies from this decision -- and the lack of effective military
        planning that has led us to be bogged down there now for a year and
        counting -- has left the U.S. *more* in danger from nuclear attack?"
        (Wow, do I sound like kinney now?)
                              \_ No -- you're actually kind of coherent.
        \_ post it to dailykos.
           \_ "The requested method POST is not allowed for the URL /."
              (when trying to create a new account)
        \_ I think this is what "payback" from the CIA looks like.
           \_ Not really.  David Kay and Duelfer just wanted to get it right
              this time.  No lack of connecting the dots like for 9/11.
              No conclusions not supported by the intelligence like for Iraq.
        \_ there is no risk of iran developing nuclear plants of any kind.
           as soon as it does, israel will bomb the crap out of the plan,
           just like it did before.
           \_ I think Iran doesn't need a nuclear plant to develop the bomb.
              All they need is weapons-grade uranium.  They know how to make
              uranium hexafluoride gas; they have the centrifuges to make
              weapons-grade uranium.  Israel would need to bomb enough
              centrifuges, and know where they were.  If I were Iran, and of
              course I would want the bomb if I could, I would construct
              multiple centrifuge systems, building each system underneath a
              large city center to guarantee great loss of innocent life if
              Israel bombed.  This is just a technical/tactical post, not
              really political.

10/6    If the technology for borgification was available, what would you do?
        I think it would be pretty cool to have some sort of 'mind's eye'
        display and an always-on network connection.  The other stuff like
        collective conciousness and major implantation I'm not so hot on.
        (I thought of this when seeing someone on their cell phone using a
         headset)
        \_ Depends what you mean by 'borgification.'  I think it's already
           happening with cell phones, and the Internet, and it will happen
           more and more.  As long as communicating with others
           is not intrusive (which are the connotations when you hear about
           the Borg), it seems like a good thing. -- ilyas
           \_ If a 'direct neural interface' was available, would you get it?
              \_ Spam and viruses, directly to your brain, yay!
                \_ Well, presumably it would handle only media and not 'code'
                   (thoughts).  You could get spam, but you'd have to decide to
                   check your mail, which would be handled by a remote server
                   made of silicon.
              \_ Depends on what I would interface with, I guess.  I wouldn't
                 mind things like the ability to instantly do arithmetic, or
                 do google searches.  Of course those things don't need a
                 neural interface -- only wearable computers.  Can you give
                 me an example of a useful functionality which needs a
                 neural interface? -- ilyas
                 \_ I'd like the equivalent of monitor, keyboard, microphone,
                    and speakers wired into my head.  You can have any computer
                    you want on the backend.
                    \_ Why do you need it wired in your head?
        \_  direct neural interface + Windows 2050 =  new meaning for  'blue
            screen of death'!
            \_ Which includes Buffer Overrun Suite 2050, the most direct way to
               overwrite your memory.
                \_ Be the first to beta-test Microsoft Bloodstream 1.0!
            \_ Apple iBorg. Think Different. No, Really. (TM)
        \_ Beware The Phone Company!
        \_ I just want AR (Augmented Reality) sunglasses.  They'd give me
           heads up GPS stuff, overlay building addresses and street names,
           use facial recognition to bring up info I have tagged to people,
           etc.  I think that would totally kick ass.  --dbushong
        \_ not sure about borgification, but if I had the holodeck to myself,
           I'd endulge in my wildest dream. ****DROOOOLLLLL*****
           \_ 7 of 9 + 69?
              \_ 69.777... ?

10/6    lsmod lists the module being used and then has a "used by" column
        where it says how many other mods use it and (usually) what those are.
        Sometime it only says a number (say 1) without any info about what
        that one thing is.  Is there anyway to find out what it is?
        \_ No, there is no mechanism I know of (for 2.2/2.4).  When you
           see the name of the dependent modules, this is based on linking,
           but anything can come in an bump the reference count without
           causing this annotation.  It may also not be a module, but a
           process, for instance a process has a device open on the SCSI card
           to which the driver is attached.

10/4    How many guns, horses, dogs, and golf courses does President
        Bush have?
        \_ 5
        \_ How many mansions, private jets, factories (homeland and abroad)
           does Kerry have?
            \_ Heil Heinzler!!
        \_ Yeah, I don't think you want to turn this into a 'who has a posher
           existence' contest...

10/6    Something I don't understand.  Why are Dubya's people saying that the
        Duelfer report doesn't deal with WMDs or WMD-program components being
        moved to Syria, when the report seems to say Iraq didn't have any WMDs
        to move to Syria in the first place?
        Is Dubya misleading again on WMDs, even today, or is he telling the
        truth?
        Granted it is accurate to say Saddam had full intent to build WMDs
        after inspectors left.
        \_ Saddam Hussein was dreaming about starting weapons-related program
           activities!

10/6    Hey motd -- is there a significant difference in quality between LCD
        and plasma tv's?  TIA.
        \_ There are big differences.
           LCDs: Limited to about 30", so-so contrast ratio, limited viewing
                 angle, some motion blur, available in fairly high resolution.
           Plasmas: Good contrast ratio, can be larger, limited resolution for
                 non-TV purposes, can burn in if display is static or there's
                 something liek a stock ticker.
           And of course price differences...
           Honestly, unless I really had $5,000 burnign a hole in my pocket,
           wait for prices to come down and the technology to improve, or just
           buy a high-quality CRT-based TV.
           \_ I am not sure about the contrast ratio and viewing angle.  IIRC,
              LCDs are at least as good as Plasmas in these areas.  It may
              indeed be a good idea to wait.  Seems like many of the makers
              of these big screens have been aggressively expanding
              capacity, and now have too much capacity, possibly leading
              to oversupply and a price war next year, especially if the
              Christmas season turns out to be a dud (been following these
              companies in the stock market).
              \_ Here's a link backing up my contention that LCD has better
                 contrast and viewing angles:
                 http://www.flattvpeople.com/tutorials/lcd-vs-plasma.asp
        \_ Plasmas, unlike LCDs, use tons of power.  The biggest ones might have
        a cooling fan.
        a cooling fan.  However, since LCDs are typically smaller I do not know
        if they will consume as much power as a plasma if equal in size.

10/6    Where have all the MOTD conservatives gone?  Are you guys just
        licking your wounds at this point, or what?  Now that you've been
        proven wrong about just about everything, are you just going to take
        it and vote for Bush anyway?