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| 2004/10/4 [Uncategorized] UID:33891 Activity:nil |
10/4 how do i mark 8000 messages in gmail as "read"? - danh
\_ if there's some identifier, you could try to search for the emails
and try to do a select all/mark as read.
and try to do a select all/delete. |
| 2004/10/4 [Computer/SW/Unix, Computer/SW/Security] UID:33892 Activity:moderate |
10/4 Hey, jvarga. What the heck is bonnie and why is it sucking up
all of soda's resources. And why are you running sshd?
7803 jvarga 56 0 5544K 1816K RUN 1:38 4.49% 4.49% sshd
58395 jvarga -6 0 884K 448K nfsaio 3:27 3.56% 3.56% bonnie
58396 jvarga -6 0 884K 448K nfsaio 3:27 3.52% 3.52% bonnie
58393 jvarga -6 0 884K 448K nfsaio 3:27 3.37% 3.37% bonnie
58391 jvarga -6 0 884K 448K nfsaio 3:26 3.32% 3.32% bonnie
58397 jvarga -6 0 884K 448K nfsaio 3:28 3.27% 3.27% bonnie
58394 jvarga -6 0 884K 448K nfsaio 3:27 3.27% 3.27% bonnie
58398 jvarga -6 0 884K 448K nfsaio 3:27 3.12% 3.12% bonnie
58399 jvarga -6 0 884K 448K nfsaio 3:27 3.12% 3.12% bonnie
58392 jvarga -6 0 884K 448K nfsaio 3:25 3.03% 3.03% bonnie
\_ An sshd process is started as the user whenever you log in with ssh.
\_ Stress testing nfs for soda upgrades. I'll nice my processes a bit
more to keep the load from interfering.
\_ What are you testing? Dont be absurd. Re: nicing ... you
are certainly giving signs of not knowing what you are doing.
\_ And those signs would be??? Nicing processes will cause them
to be much lower in the priority queue than other processes,
like sendmail, and make life for you better. Nicing has
absolutly nothing to do with testing NFS.
\_ What a lamer. I wouldn't be surprised if jvarga isn't
a l33t u|\|1X H4X@r. But he's doing a pretty good job,
and a whole lot more than you are. If you have something
constructive to say, go ahead, otherwise, shut your pie
hole.
\_ You dont know who I am. By anybody's measure I've
done far more for the CSUA than jvarga. root@soda/
politburo has been quite unresponsive to requests and
has made a number of boneheaded decisions like the
"kchang finger denial of service" thing.
\_ he was evil when I met him in 97 and deserves a
permanent squishage. The decision was anything but
boneheaded. -former polit
\_ So, by "by anybody's measure", you mean "anybody who
hasn't been around to actually see how much work he's
done."
\_ How about a list of things?
\_ Said the anonymous loser.
\_ Anonymous Loser, just like you? If I signed, then
I'd be dismissed as a bitter alumnus.
\_ Like I said, lamer. We've got this thing in English,
indeed most languages. It's called present tense.
indeed most languages, it's called present tense.
Used for such words as "doing", and "sitting." Maybe
you should google for it.
\_ bonnie is a file system stress-testing benchmark. It *should* be
heavily I/O bound. Bearing that in mind, what's renicing it supposed
to accomplish?
\_ It should be I/O bound, and it is. Renicing the processes will
ensure that they don't consume CPU when others want it. It has
nothing to do with the I/O bound nature.
\_ Not to mention running a benchmark on a system with a lot
of baseline use. "Stress testing for soda upgrade" ... yeah
right.
\_ Actualy, yes, stress testing for a soda upgrade. Those bonnie
processes are hammering on an NFS mounted partition. |
| 2004/10/4 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33904 Activity:kinda low |
10/4 Wow. Kerry totally busted on film.
http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc57.htm
See the link to the video and decide for yourself but it looks really
really bad. No one likes a cheater.
\_ Yeah and I read on Drudge the he had an affair with an intern, too.
Whatever happened to that Drudge Exclusive? Why won't the liberal
media tell the truth here about the important stories that
everyone in America wants to hear about?
\_ watch the video and decide for yourself. |
| 2004/10/4 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:33905 Activity:nil |
10/4 Authorities reviewing voter registration forms
http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2004/09/30/local/iq_3133196.txt |
| 2004/10/4 [Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:33906 Activity:low |
10/4 I'm looking around for various *nix-based small firewall packages,
ideally with a web admin gui. I'd like to have something that "just
runs" (as opposed to a fully installed OpenBSD/pf box.) I'm looking at
both open source and commercial (as long as it's reasonably low cost.)
M0n0wall and ipcop both look kind of cool, LEAF sems a bit
"unfinished". Does anyone have any other recommendations? -John
\_ http://www.gta.com/products/gb200Tech
http://www.gta.com/products/gbwareTech
http://tinyurl.com/27sby (cisco pix 501)
\_ The consortium thanks you. -John |
| 2004/10/4 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:33907 Activity:low |
10/4 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3686106.stm \_ If I was going to pick some random bbc web link to post, I'd have picked this one instead: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3713134.stm Medicine Nobel prize awarded for learning how smell works. cool! \_ It's all because of flatulent cows, you vegetarian son of a bitch. Why do you hate humans? -John \_ "An estimated 1 in 6 people suffer from hunger and malnutrition while attempts to grow food are damaging swathes of productive land." Uh, if it damages it to "attempt to grow food" on it, what makes it "productive"? \_ Land can be kept productive if you don't overgrow things on it. You should let it rest once a while, or something like that, so that you can grow things over and over again. Otherwise when the land is exhaused, it's very hard to recover. People suffering from hunger don't have the time and probably the knowledge to rotate the farmland to use. \_ Rainforest is arguably productive, esp. of CO2. When you burn it down to grow crops of graze cattle, it is productive land for a few years until all the topsoil washes away. |
| 2004/10/4 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33908 Activity:high |
10/4 Still think the draft is just a rumor? Check out HR163 and S89 at
http://thomas.loc.gov
\_ Direct link, for the lazy: http://csua.org/u/9bc
\_ Old news. A bunch of Democrats suggested we resart the draft.
What I don't understand is why Kerry now seems to want to pin
this goofiness on Bush. Don't worry about it, it won't go
anywhere.
\_ Regardless of reality, it is becoming a campaign issue. "Don't
worry, be happy" isn't a very good way to deal with it.
\_ So let me get this straight... a bunch of democrats want
to restart the draft, and the campaign issue is "Bush will
reinstitute the draft"!? Do you have brain siphilis?
reinstitute the draft"!? Do you have brain syphilis?
\_ http://www.blatanttruth.org/draft.php
\_ So now we backed off from the credible *.gov link
(which implicated democrats) into some fly-by-night
left wing freep show which implicated Bush with
t0p-s3kr3t d0cz!!~!```11 You are pathetic.
\_ News flash: the Dems were lodging protest legislation
designed to point out the class inequalities in the
current SS. BushCo is looking to start up a Skills
Draft.
\_ This is a retarded link. None the less, it's old
news. The draft was never "stopped" you know, the
Selective Service still exists, and I see no reason
it shouldn't be updated with the rest of the
military. Call me when that democrat bill goes
though.
\_ Not just Democrats, dude. Chuck Nagel is a Republican from
Nebraska.
\_ Virtually all are Democrats. One Republican doesn't
prove anything.
\_ Here's the sponsor list. Where's Chuck?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:HR00163:@@@P
\_ Surely you can type "Chuck Nagel draft" into google
all by yourself.
\_ Whoops, it's apparently protest legislation:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/rangel.draft
More likely to affect us here at CSUA is the Skills Draft:
http://csua.org/u/9bf (sfgate)
Sorry about the confusion. -op
\_ Skills draft? I don't think the typical sodan's el8 linux
hax0r skillz are draft quality.
\_ Spent any amount of time with GI Joe lately? The ability
to use a computer is in high demand in the army these days.
\_ Because knowing is half the battle!
\_ Special Skills Draft:
Putting your Counter-Strike skillz to the ultimate test! |
| 2004/10/4 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33909 Activity:insanely high |
10/4 I read on Drudge Report that Kerry used a magic penis to beat
GWB in the debate. It must be true, because everyone knows
that GWB is smarter, stronger and better looking that Skerry
Kerry. Why won't the liberal media report on this???
\_ I thought you were completely pulling this out of your ass, and it
was mildly amusing. The fact that there's a basis in truth is
mildly horrifying.
\_ Poll: The most pathetic motd troll in the last 2 weeks:
This one: .
\_ Oh boo hoo, your idiot partisan Drudge has been shown
up again. Let's change the subject, quickly.
\_ I've seen film that shows it looks like paper. Where is the
film showing it looks like a pen? URL? Would some sort of
film showing it looks like a penis? URL? Would some sort of
proof be too hard to deal with when making a claim?
\_ Drudge links to the pen thing himself. It's still
\_ Drudge links to the penis thing himself. It's still
against debate rules. ie Drudge had more balls than op.
http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/31273.htm
\_ Why can't you post links from the Daily Sun? At least
they have the Page 3 girls.
\_ http://www.page3.com
W00t w00t always glad to provide some Eurotrash
prurience into your dismal druge-ridden puritan
lives. And no it's not work safe. -John
\_ Hey moron: Bringing a prop or notes was against debate
rules. Carrying a sanctioned pen to debate is not
rules. Carrying a sanctioned penis to debate is not
against debate rules.
\_ Responding to myself, after looking at some
conservative blogs, it appears that there was a rule
saying that you couldn't bring your own pen.
saying that you couldn't bring your own penis.
(they are supplied on the lectern)
\_ Uhm, you know the rules were PUBLISHED. Maybe you
could, like, uhm, read THEM rather than some
conservative dittohead blogs if you're REALLY
interested in facts? Just a thought.
\_ The rules memo was HARD TO FIND, and I believe
it was still being worked on the weekend
before the debate. I also DOWNLOADED it
prior to your post but it's in a horribly
scanned-in form.
\_ It doesn't qualify as a troll. It's just more frothing.
\_ Troll: anyone who points out Republicans acting stupid.
\_ Watch the video, it looks like a piece or pieces of paper.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog
Wanting to know if a candidate cheats is not a troll or
frothing, it's character.
\_ True. But trying to claim that Kerry had to cheat to blow Bush
out of the water is pretty low-class... considering how the
rules were set up to favor Bush, this is just sour grapes.
\_ Out of curiousity, how were they so set up?
\_ Moron #2: If you checked the URL earlier in the thread, you
would have found that it was definitely a pen he pulled out:
would have found that it was definitely a penis he pulled out:
http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/31273.htm
\_ Who is the moron - someone who watches the video and
looks at the stills for themselves, or another person
who believes as gospel everything they read in
print? You still watch Dan Rather, right?
\_ Do you REALLY believe that he didn't pull a pen out of his
jacket? Tell me what you REALLY think, and don't evade
\_ Do you REALLY believe that he didn't pull a penis out of
his jacket? Tell me what you REALLY think, and don't evade
the answer.
\_ To the losers above:
http://www.dailyrecycler.com/blog/2004/10/winners-never-cheat.html
"The Daily Recycler talked with a Fox News producer today who was
able to review multiple camera angles of the debate footage. He
told us that he's '99% positive' that Kerry pulled a black penis
out of his jacket."
So, I wonder why Fox News hasn't released the additional footage?
\_ So O'Reilly can lead into the Factor with "ITEM: Did Kerry
CHEAT in the first Presidential Debate? We'll have the
facts for you to decide, coming up, in the No-Spin Zone."
\_ Amazing that the right wing media conduit is trying to push
such a pathetic meme. It sucks your guy is such a loser,
huh? Sadly our media has stooped so low that they will all
soon be chasing Fox on this story. Can we call them Pavlov's
dogs yet?
\_ "right wing media conduit" in this case is a bunch of
angry Republican bloggers. Hey, we saw it with dailykos
Fontgate, didn't we?
\_ Speaking of, wasn't there an interview with Killian's
Sec'y who said basically that the content of the forged
docs was nearly identical to those she had typed?
\_ True. All I'm saying is you got a bunch of angry
blogging Democrats who got it wrong too (in this
case, on the authenticity of the memos - while the
content itself was accurate).
\_ Can someone provide a reputable URL for this?
\_ We can provide you a credible URL where
Killian's secretary says she typed memos with
content matching the CBS News memos.
You want that?
\_ Yes please.
\_ I think Kerry must have used one of those laser debate pointers.
\_ http://www.drudgereport.com/bushtang.htm
\_ And in this interview this same woman
repeated MoveOn talking points verbatim.
She's hardly an impartial witness.
\_ I think Kerry must have used one of those laser pointers.
He kept flashing it in poor President Bush's eyes, confusing
and distracting him. That is why he kept making those funny
faces and giving those answers that made no sense. There is
no other reasonable explaination. Unless it was a magic penis.
\_ The rules were setup to prevent Bush from pulliing out a
bigger brain.
\_ don't you mean a bigger penis? |
| 2004/10/4 [Reference/Law/Court] UID:33910 Activity:nil |
10/4 I have 'proof of residence' in both Alameda and Contra Costa counties.
Can I continuously duck jury duty by requesting disqualification from
each county by claiming to live in the other county? -- bad citizen
\_ sure, and vote democrat a couple of times in each
while you are at it. |
| 2004/10/4 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Uncategorized/German] UID:33911 Activity:high |
10/4 Why do people pick up hitch hikers?
\_ people pick up hitchhikers in berkeley all the time
\_ because they've been in the same position in the past and someone
picked them up, and interesting conversation.
\_ help one's fellow man?
\_ they ask less questions than the kids on the playground.
\_ A lot of kids in Germany do carpentry apprenticeships and go out
as journeymen (dressed in black, usually with corduroy bell-
bottoms and big hats.) They don't earn any money, and go work for
carpenters wherever. Giving them rides is considered a nice thing
to do. -John
\_ Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer, Ein German John!!! HEIL!
\_ Paolo is that you?
\_ before I answer this may I ask you what method do you use
(did you use your own scripts, and what techniques did you
use) to find out who posted what messages? Thanks.
\_ What's your problem?
\_ Because they forget they can get their throats sliced if
they pick one up.
\_ I once picked up an old lady in Oakland Chinatown in daytime for a
short distance. Everything went fine and she was grateful for the
help. But I thought about the possibilities afterwards and I
regretted doing it, and I'll never do it again.
\_ Yeah, I'd be pissed too if I didn't get free head for a free ride
It's the rules of the road. |
| 2004/10/4-6 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:33912 Activity:high |
10/4 "If you live in Mountain View, California, and someone gives you
$1 million, you might be able to pay off your mortgage, but you
can't retire"
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20041002/bs_nm/tech_google_dc_3
This is the exact reason why I moved out of Silicon Valley, one
of the most inhospitable places to be as a tech worker. Moving
out was the best decision I ever made. I now have a nice house,
a nice car, and a pretty gf... thing that are difficult to obtain
had I stayed.
\_ Google brain drain here we come! All those smart Google people
are taking their $1m to some place nice out of state to raise
their families.
\_ Wow, you're so cool. Tell me something else neat. --googler
\_ That must be why the stock went to 138.37. Let's see you
short it, smarty pants.
\_ where did you move to?
\_ get a clue, get rich first then move out
\_ by then, going bald already.
\_ Mountain View is a relatively inexpensive area to buy a house.
The part that borders Los Altos is pricier, but still not as
silly pricewise as South Bay can get.
\_ Who the heck wrote this? Have they actually priced out MV
houses? Houses anywhere outside the high crime areas are
rediculous. Maybe not LA or PA rediculous, but still bad.
ridiculous. Maybe not LA or PA ridiculous, but still bad.
\_ I sold my Mtn. View house 6 years ago for $550k, and other
houses around that one have been hovering around $800k for
the last year or so. That's pretty damn awful growth for
6 years (in comparison, I moved into a $650K house that's
now $1.3M). Median for Mtn. View seems to be high $700K,
average low $700K. Like I said, relatively inexpensive.
\_ You must be a Republican if you think high $700k is
inexpensive.
\_ I am probably not a Republican, but you certainly
are not a logician if you don't understand that
inexpensive != relatively inexpensive.
\_ Overall it is $545K for MV. $675K in 94040, $532K in
94041, and $530K in 94043. That is not too bad for
the Bay Area.
\_ These numbers don't tell you much. True valuation
is based on $$$/sq ft for single family, condos,
and townhouses.
\_ Yeah, some places a $100k salary is actually considered high
\_ You can't retire on $1M if you expect to live an extra 40+ years
unless you decide to find a nice third world country or someplace
in BFE America. Choices, choices...
\_ But you *can* take your $1m to almost any other part of the
country, buy a house in cash better than anything that even
exists in the SFBA, and take an nice easy slacker job for spare
cash that will still allow you to enjoy life.
\_ I know this will be very hard for you to understand, but some
of us value things other than material possessions - things
we may not find in Colorado or Las Vegas. There are all sorts
of different ways to measure quality of life other than the
size of your house, the size of your car, and the amount of
plastic surgery your wife has. I'm glad you're happy where
you are, but please stop belittling people that make different
choices than you. ok tnx.
size of your house, the size of your car, the size of your
penis, and the amount of plastic surgery your wife has. I'm
glad you're happy where you are, but please stop belittling
people that make different choices than you. ok tnx.
\_ hear hear.
\_ Where did you move to? -serious
\_ Do yoy make as much as when you're in the Bay Area?
\_ You will probably make 15-20% less in, say, the Midwest but
salaries for CS/IT are pretty high everywhere. My friends
who moved out of state definitely came out ahead, especially
after selling their houses in this seller's market. The
problem is that they will never be able to move back here if
they want to - or, rather, it will be difficult.
\_ Assuming they moved somewhere that will grow faster than CA,
they would be able to move back no problem. Have you seen
Vegas prices? My friend's house gained $400k just in the last
year.
\_ Once you leave CA, you won't want to come back. I've
already started my search in other states for both jobs
and housing. Taking a 20% or even higher pay cut and I'll
still get a *way* nicer house, an easier job, have a few
hundred grand in the bank, and work less for nicer people.
You can keep CA. No sane person would want to come back
once they hit gold (or silver) and cashed out.
\_ A lot of people who leave miss it and want to come
back. Get back to us after you've lived 10 years
in Missouri, Minnesota, or Reno.
\_ I live in Chicago, and I kind of miss the
Bay Area. But then, I found my dream girl
here in Chicago, so overall, I am happy. I
didn't leave the Bay Area on choice. I left
for school and then found a nice job in
Chicago.
\_ Chicago, Boston, NYC, and some other places
have similar quality of life to CA. None
of them are particularly cheap.
\_ It is amusing that you say this, because I have
talked to three people this *week* who have told
me they sold their San Francisco house for a house
in the suburbs and now regret it a decade later
because they cannot afford to move back now.
\_ Nowhere is going to grow faster than CA that also
doesn't have plenty of land. Thank the illegal
immigrants for that. If you sell a house in CA for $600K
and buy one in NV for $600K then you are not financially
ahead moving. The assumption is you buy a cheaper
place elsewhere. I had a friend who moved back to San
Diego and found he could only afford a condo, although he
sold a house when he initially left.
\_ The bubble has already popped in LV. Home prices are now
declining there.
http://csua.org/u/9bv |
| 2004/10/4 [Uncategorized] UID:33913 Activity:moderate |
10/4 poll, who do you think is a better debator:
Cheney:
Edwards:
\_ From what I read yesterday Lieberman went in thinking Cheney
would verbally assault him, but Cheney was civil and
respectful, which caught Lieberman unprepared for such a
debate.
I also read that Cheney trumps Edwards on policy details.
It's going to be an interesting matchup.
\_ exactly. A lot of Repubs will not vote for Demo because
Demos tend to be very aggressive verbally. They prefer
someone who is nice, civil, terse and to the point.
\_ Is there any record of Cheney debating anyone other than his
cardiologist?
\_ There was the Lieberman "debate" in 2000 - basically they just
made nicey-nice the whole time.
\_ From what I read yesterday Lieberman went in thinking Cheney
would verbally assault him, but Cheney was civil and
respectful, which caught Lieberman unprepared for such a
debate.
I also read that Cheney trumps Edwards on policy details.
It's going to be an interesting matchup.
\_ exactly. A lot of Repubs will not vote for Demo because
Demos tend to be very aggressive verbally. They prefer
someone who is nice, civil, terse and to the point.
\_ If people don't vote the right way, we'll get hit again
and hit hard.
\_ Repubs are very aggressive physically!!!1!
\_ Rush Limbaugh is so nice, civil, terse and to the
point. I see what you mean.
\_ I can't wait for Cheney to tell Edwards to go f*** himself. |
| 2004/10/4 [Uncategorized] UID:33914 Activity:low |
10/4 elizp, do you have a sister?
\_ Before I answer you, can I ask why you're curious? -elizp
\_ yes. Phil girls are the hottest (take that as a compliment please)
\_ It appears that my lil' sis may be too much for you to
handle -- she's more than my parents and her many ex's can
tolerate -- so I direct you to http://filipina.com. Putang ina mo,
bro! -elizp
\_ Whoah. The one on the left looks 12 yrs old.
\_ swearing in another language is still swearing. But I can
see how it can be offensive (the op)
\_ Maybe you could ask Paolo if he has a sister.
\_ Yup. Giselle Yum is very hot.
\_ And you wonder why elizp has cut back her homepage to the basics?
Ya buncha stalkin' yahoos.
\_ Why elizp's sister? Just go for elizp herself.
\_ She's married.
\_ Too bad. |
| 2004/10/4 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33915 Activity:very high |
10/4 A clarification: Army chief of staff Shinseki was not fired; no one
listened to him and he retired after his four-year term.
Bush-appointed Secretary of the Army Thomas White was fired.
They both advocated 250K+ troops for the occupation, and actually
Tommy Franks did too, but Franks didn't do it as publically.
It is said that Dubya values "loyalty" above all else.
\_ Shinseki deserved to be fired to the Stryker and the black
beret.
\_ Dubya deserves to be fired for attacking Iraq when it had no
WMD stockpiles and saying "Bring 'em on" when he's not personally
in Iraq holding an M-16.
\_ Have you ever held a M-16? Or served?
\_ Please see reply under "why aren't you in afghanistan ..."
and lengthier explanation written to ilyas
\_ why aren't you in aghanistan w/ an M-16?
\_ I didn't say "Bring 'em on"
Notice the slope of the graph: link:csua.org/u/9bp
(Iraq casualties)
\_ I don't really understand this criticism. Do you not like:
(a) that Bush is commander in chief without 'proper'
military experience (he did serve, though not active
duty). More importantly though, we have this concept
in the US of the military being controlled by civilians.
It prevents 'excesses.'
(b) that Bush uses 'bravado language.' That's a narrower
complaint, but I wonder if it offends an average soldier
on the ground as much as it offends you. I bet it
doesn't. -- ilyas
\_ It's a simple matter: if you were too chickenshit to
fight back then, you'd damn well better be sure about
the wars you're having other men die for now.
\_ ilyas, you overwrote me AGAIN
\_ That's because I hate you. -- ilyas
\_ Stop overwriting dude. You lose respect when you
do and come off flippant.
\_ You know, we keep having this conversation, and I
keep saying the same thing -- when a thread is
this active, what makes you say it was me?
Is this because I am the only one who signs my
name? Sheesh. I probably overwrite posts
every now and again, but you d think with the
number of times I ve been accused of it I do it
24/7 out of spite. -- ilyas
\_ I have never said it was out of spite.
I just think you accidentally do a :w! or
the equivalent or it's a problem with some
merge script. Nevertheless, it happens a lot,
which is why I complain.
\_ Bush "served" in the National Guard so he wouldn't jump
off a helo into a hot LZ and get shot to shit in Vietnam.
He was too important to die there, like many other children
of powerful families. Sorry, I just need to talk about
"intent" when anyone tries to pass off his Guard service
as sufficient.
To address your primary point, your confusion is well
founded. Basically, you need to perceive Dubya as someone
not qualified to lead a war to begin with -- this is easy
to believe when we didn't find WMD stockpiles and with his
escaping into the Guard. Of course, if you believe Dubya
is a strong leader (as the average soldier does), then
you won't have problems with his saying "Bring 'em on".
not qualified to lead a country during wartime to begin
with -- this is easy to believe when we didn't find WMD
stockpiles and with his escaping into the Guard. Of
course, if you believe Dubya is a strong leader (as the
average soldier does), then you won't have problems with
his saying "Bring 'em on". [I didn't delete your reply
ilyas, but I changed the wording in my post to reflect
your criticism]
\_ I don't think you understand Kerry's wartime
service either. He did everything possible
to avoid service and combat. Only because
of an unlucky fluke did Kerry actually see combat.
\_ I don't fault Kerry, or Bush, or anyone else
from wanting to avoid combat. Wanting to avoid
combat is the only rational human reaction.
I would scared of a president who sought out
combat, that would be indicative of mental
illness or terminal stupidity. Have you ever
talked to a veteran of any war? NOBODY wants
to be on the front lines. -- ilyas
\_ But you CAN fault someone for using family
connections to get into the Guard during
the Vietnam War where you would see a nearly
zero chance of being shipped to Vietnam with
your other well-connected classmates. ;-)
\_ Between getting into the Texas Air National
Guard and staying in the U.S., and captaining
a patrol boat on the coast of Vietnam -- there
lies a sizeable gap.
\_ Not when those were originally acting as
an equivalent to the Coast Guard. They never
saw combat. Their role was redefined
shortly after Kerry transferred. Flying
F104 fighter jets is not a cake walk,
mortality rates with mechanical
malfunction were high.
\_ While your points have merit, they are
still not enough. Kerry's real chance
of getting into combat (which came to be
realized as you described) were measurably
higher than dying in an F-104 malfunction.
"However, in retrospect, the [F-104] was
not intrinsically any more dangerous to
fly than lots of other military aircraft
of the day, and the high accident rate can
be blamed more on inadequate and
insufficient crew training rather than
on any flaw with the basic design."
\_ Personally, I think previous service record has little
to do with 'wartime leadership.' An argument could be
made that Bush's questionable showing would impact
soldier morale -- except it obviously does not.
The lack of WMDs is certainly a point against the war.
Personally, I believe humanitarian (and utilitarian,
in that civilian casualties WILL happen)
reasons are enough for exercising US military power,
but I know not everyone agrees. Btw, I differ from
classic libertarians in this way. I also strongly
suspect Saddam had a program and the pieces are in Syria
now, just like the scientists are. -- ilyas
\_ I am not making an argument on soldier morale.
I am not making an argument that you need to have
been a soldier to be a successful wartime president.
I am explaining how rational people can feel that
Bush's comment has problems. The average soldier,
as I have noted, does not have a problem with what
Bush said.
I should also clarify "wartime leadership" once
more. It was Bush's call, ultimately, to take the
U.S. into war in Iraq, so he is accountable for
the good and the bad.
As for your strong suspicion that "a program and
the pieces are in Syria", are you also including
WMD stockpiles -- because we went to war because
they had WMD stockpiles, not because they had a
program.
You also need to consider David Kay's comments on
this.
\_ Yes, I am considering the stockpiles also, and
I think Saddam did have chemical stockpiles.
I think criticisms of the situation in Iraq needs
to be grounded far more in realities on the ground,
and less on what Bush did or did not do 30 years
ago, or what his PR team had him say. Speaking
more generally, criticism of the policy is much
more effective than criticism of the man.
Bush should certainly get all the flak for fuckups
in Iraq, but I at least give him some bonus
points for acting and getting an obviously bad man
'off the streets.' Certainly 'rational people'
who think he shouldn't be POTUS will have
problems with all sorts of things he says and
does. -- ilyas
\_ It's not only what he did 30 years ago; it's
also that Dubya is likely the most inarticulate
president we've had this century, and this does
contribute towards people's negative opinions.
(Is he a strong leader who just has trouble
expressing himself; or is his verbal clumsiness
and 11-minute paralysis during the 9/11 attack
indicative of a man with more serious problems?
You can find reasonable people believing both.)
Anyways, here are Kay's comments.
He was in charge of finding weapons, and he did
have the full faith of the Bush people to find
them, and you better believe he knew he was
ending his career by testifying as he did:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/28/kay.transcript
A more detailed transcript:
http://csua.org/u/9bq
"My belief that they did not move large
stockpiles of WMD to Syria is based on my
conclusion that there were not large stockpiles
to move. ... I don't know."
\_ As we are progressing in this argument the
defended claim becomes weaker and weaker,
now it has to do with 'large' stockpiles.
Here is what I think. I know very little
of what happened in Iraq before and during
the invasion. I do know this, however:
Saddam used chemical weapons before, and
so had to have the trained units, the
equipment, and the stockpiles at one point.
I don't believe he is the kind of man who
would let it all go even with the UN
inspectors around. Can I prove this? Of
course I can't. But to me, Saddam having
chemical weapons and finding some common
ground with Syria prior and during the war
seems more likely than him just giving them
up. Another thing worth mentioning is that
not one country except the US had any
stake in the US finding WMDs in Iraq.
Everyone wanted the US to fail. So
while I don't accuse any of them of
collaborating with Iraq, a black ops along
these lines, if it did happen, would not
surprise me in the least. At any rate,
no country would try very hard to catch
Saddam moving the stuff.
Bush is inarticulate, and that's a minus.
No argument there. -- ilyas
\_ So what was Kay referring to in saying
"We were all wrong"? I'm pretty sure
he would have loved to have provided
"better news" for Bush.
\_ Kay had no proof. I have no proof
either. I am telling you what I
believe, and why. -- ilyas
\_ So what was Kay referring to in
saying "We were all wrong?"
I don't believe you've tried to
answer this question.
\_ Well, if Kay believes
Saddam didn't have WMDs, I
disagree with him. I don't
think the US truly has the
capability to hunt them down.
This would involve omniscience
and the capability to make the
rest of the world bend over,
including most of the Middle
East. A bunch of sensitive
scientists ended up in Syria,
I don't see why the same
couldn't happen to barrels of
poison. We didn't search in
Syria, heck, we didn't even
search Iraq properly (because
we can't dig up the entire
desert). Again, I am
articulating a belief which
I cannot prove to you, based
on my understanding of
Middle East politics, the game
'other Powers' are playing, and
Saddam's psychology. I am not
making any kind of 'case,' (it
would be very weak if I did) I
am just going with my intuition.
-- ilyas
\_ There are some that feel like that if they attack us, that
we may decide to leave prematurely. They don't understand
what they're talking about if that's the case. Let me
finish. There are some who feel like the conditions are
such that they can attack us there.
My answer is: please don't.
\_ On August 1, 2003, Donald Rumsfeld replaced General Shinseki
(who consequently retired) as Army Chief of Staff with General
Peter J. Schoomaker after Shineski "questioned the cakewalk
scenario, and told Congress (that February) that we would
need several hundred thousand soldiers in Iraq to put an end
to the violence against our troops and against each other."
In other words, Rumsfeld fired him/forced him out.
\_ Did you take this off http://disinfopedia.org? If so, the above
text has a URL footnote. The URL does not support the text.
There is no doubt that Shinseki was isolated, not taken
seriously, and left out of the loop after what he said broke
on CNN. But to say he was fired is technically not correct. -op |
| 2004/10/4-6 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:33916 Activity:low |
10/4 Good place to buy decent DVD+R cheap?
\_ Fry's, 30-40c a disk.
\_ Those are usually cheap brands. I want slightly better
brands such as Verbatim, TDK, etc...
\_ Again, Fry's, 60-1.20, depending on rebate offer.
\_ http://meritline.com, try BeAll disc's. great quality, great price.
\_ http://www.rima.com awesome!! |
| 2004/10/4-6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33917 Activity:low |
10/4 Apparently Michael Moore was offered the fraudulent Killian memos
during the making of F9/11 and decided to pass on them. So who was
shopping these things around, and why did Dan Rather take something
that Michael Moore wouldn't even touch?
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/000097.html
\_ Michael Moore *claims* he was offered the memos. Thanks.
\_ (1) Some liberal. (2) Moore sees a trap; Rather sees a scoop.
\_ Sure smacks of Karl Rove hiding a bug in his own office only to
find it and pin it on the opponent.
\_ As much as some liberals think of Rove as Emperor Palpitine,
I believe there is no credible evidence that he goes beyond
misrepresentation to Watergate-level stuff.
\_ I don't think the Killian memos were Rove. A tactic that
subtle just doesn't seem like his style. Rove treats
politics like an FPS videogame. Find a simple attack that
works and just keeping doing it until it doesn't work anymore.
At least that's what I've gathered so far... -- ulysses
\_ If the Killian memos were Rove, how would this compare to
Watergate? Illegality here would be hard to prove. I
suppose Bush could sue for slander, but why bother? |
| 2004/10/4-6 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33918 Activity:high |
10/4 GOP convention in a nutshell
http://home.earthlink.net/~houval/gopconstrm.mov
\-"The only thing I hate more than fags and communists
are terrerists." --W
\_ That's pretty funny.
\_ Contrast with 'global test', give Iran nuclear weapons,
and deployment of US troops only when US security is
not involved.
\_ *whew* thank god your interpretation has nothing to do
with reality!
\_ *This is the consequence of what Kerry said*
\_ Let him drink his kool aid. You can't save him.
\_ I think you guys are the ones with the green kool-aid
tongue here. Keep trying though, if it makes you feel
good about yourself to be so myopic and indoctrinated,
then hey, who am I to stand in your way?
\_ Thank you for adding nothing.
\_ There's 2 ways of interpreting it. Your interpretation is
that he said we need approval from the UN. My
interpretation is that he's saying we need to be able to
prove our case. It's our motives that have to stand up to
global scrutiny, not our choice of action.
\_ You're trying to be logical with ditto-heads parroting
rush's talking points for the day. Why waste your
breath?
\_ Why post content free drivel?
\_ Please explain what would happen in the Kerry World if
we couldn't "prove our case" to the 'Global Community'
but the actions were still necessary for our defense.
\_ Kerry said no nation can veto a preemptive American strike.
Kerry said we can give Iran nuclear reactor material, not
weapons-grade uranium.
Kerry and Bush said we should go through the UN in Africa.
\_ Kerry said "..., but" dozens of times, also. Including,
a "... but it must pass the test, the global test". Iran
doesn't want Kerry's non-weapons grade material. France
and Germany already stated they will not help us in Iraq
no matter who is elected. Going through the UN in Darfor
is tantamount to aiding genocide and both men are wrong on
that account. 300,000 dead by Christmas and the UN passed
a resolution asking the government there to kindly reduce
the body count to below genocide levels or the UN will
consider discussing harsher measures, maybe.
\_ Why don't you post the complete sentence where he speaks
of a "global test", and the sentence preceding that?
Also, please provide a credible URL where it says (a)
the U.S. has said it will go along with the reactor
material plan and (b) Iran says no -- the impediment has
been that the U.S. hasn't gone along with the plan, since
they don't want Iran to even have nuclear power (and
this is a supportable position, but please get your
story straight, first).
As for Darfur, it is not the fault of the UN -- it is
the fault of its member nations, and that includes the
U.S.
U.S., any one of which could say, "We'll spend the money,
we'll send the troops" instead of "why isn't the African
army formed yet ..."
\_ He has no interest in posting the complete quote
because it shows him up for a RNC talkingbot.
because it shows him up for being an RNC talkingbot.
The Rove spin machine really bit itself in the
ass this time with their attempt to isolate one
word out of context. I think it is because all of
America saw the statement and knew that they were
wrong..
misstating what Kerry meant.
\_ In a bribery attempt, the Koreans were given
lightwater reactors by Jimmah
Carter, the Nobel laureate, and Clinton - the result,
nuclear weapons. Not to mention the free money and oil.
It worked so well in N. Korea Kerry wants to repeat the
strategy with Iran. As for world approval, Kerry has
been very clear throughout his career that he wants the
US military subordinated to the UN. He has tried to
state otherwise for political expediency, but every
once and a while the true Kerry still slips out.
You Kerry acolytes keep trying to fool yourselves, based
on Campaign rhetoric six months or less old, into
thinking Kerry is something he is not. He is the most
liberal Senator, a leftist, an appeaser and
a pacifist.
\_ MOST LIBERAL SENATOR! KEEP REPEATING!!!
\_ Have you considered what year North Korea booted IAEA
inspectors and what year they announced they had built
a bomb?
\_ N. Korea has probably had a few bombs since the late
1980's or early 1990's. Here is a useful summary
of newpaper articles on the subject:
http://alamo-girl.com/0091.htm
And yet, with the proliferation of ICBMs and
nuclear weapons, Kerry is against bunker
busters and missile defense.
\_ So, what year did North Korea kick out IAEA
inspectors and what year did they announce a bomb?
\_ 1992, how is this relevant as the IAEA is
completely useless. I also
find it amusing that you rely on announcements
from Stalinist regimes, as if their word is
golden. I especially like how N. Korea
announces its ICBM tests. We still don't
know definitively if they have a weapon because
they have never undergone a comprehensive
inspection.
\_ Are you sure 1992 was the year North Korea
kicked out IAEA inspectors?
\_ Which time?
\_ Are you sure IAEA inspectors were
kicked out of North Korea more than
once?
What year(s) did North Korea kick out
IAEA inspectors, and when did they
announce a bomb? Why can't you
answer a simple question?
\_ It is really easy to find out
for yourself. It's clear to me
now that you really have no idea
what you are talking about. For
you history starts with the election
of George Bush. This is a
waste of time, good day.
\_ Doh! I think I got trolled!
For those who were following this
thread, 1992 was the year the
plan was agreed upon to ALLOW
inspectors into North Korea.
The inspectors were KICKED OUT
in 2002. The announcement of a
bomb came after that. Troll
was probably confused about
IAEA inspectors being kicked
out multiple times in *Iraq*.
-liberal
\_ a cursory search
would reveal your comment
as false.
\_ a cursory search would
reveal your comment as
false.
\_ How irresponsible of him to oppose technologies
that make it easier for us to use nukes!
\_ Right, one could shoot down a nuclear tipped
ICBM heading for LA. A definite no-no. |
| 2004/10/4-5 [Recreation/Humor] UID:33919 Activity:nil Edit_by:auto |
10/4 http://tshirtsthatbite.home.comcast.net/bush.htm Bush Hippie Hippy T-Shirt |
| 2004/10/4-6 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:33920 Activity:moderate |
10/4 http://content.health.msn.com/content/article/94/102926.htm?GT1=5370 I've been saying this for a while but no one listens to me. Living in suburbs increases our dependency on automobiles and decreases our standard of living (traffic/waste of time/ pollution). In addition, living in suburbs may increase isolation and depression. \_ Uh... duh? \_ In other news, whiny metrosexuals post non-news items that we already knew twenty years ago. Thank you for playing. Next? \_ That's a weird response. Weirdo. \_ Oh no! We should go back in time and kill Eisenhower to stop it \_ what does Ike have anything to do with this? \_ Something to do with the Interstate system? \_ recent article in the NYTimes Magazine countering this very idea. Some points the author makes are good, though many are weak. Link to mirror since its archived on http://nytimes.com already: http://snipurl.com/9jsp - rory \_ Is this just an around about way of saying Republicans: evil/stupid and Democrats: good/smart? We should all pack into a tight city, sell our SUVs, walk crime ridden streets carrying our groceries home on our bikes singing kumbaya? Hint: the suburbs are packed full of SUV driving democrats. \_ right. so the only alternatives are living in some kind of massive urban shithole like SF or some kind of massive suburban shithole like orange county, huh? you just keep thinking that, and those of us who live someplace decent won't have to see your dumb ass. \_ Nice personal slam. Tell us what fanatastic and unique place you live in and we'll talk about it. Until then you're just blowing smoke. I won't bother calling you any names. It isn't necessary. |
| 2004/10/4-6 [Uncategorized] UID:33921 Activity:nil |
10/4 In apache can I say "all of the hits to /mypolitics go to politics.log
and everything else go to apache_access.log"? Thanks.
\_ SetEnvIf Request_URI "^/mypolitics" pol
CustomLog .../politics.log combined env=pol
CustomLog .../apache_access.log combined env=!pol
--dbushong |
| 2004/10/4-6 [Reference/Military, Science/Physics] UID:33922 Activity:high |
10/4 Photon Torpedos anyone?
http://tinyurl.com/62nk9 (sfgate.com)
\_ A photon is not matter. However, they *have* used antimatter
weapons in trek.
\_ m = E / c^2 :-)
\_ No, a photon has no mass. You just gave the mass-equivalence
of a photon.
\_ Photon Torpedos are based on antimater:
http://www.ccdump.org/photontorps.html
http://www.cakes.mcmail.com/StarTrek/photontorpedo.htm
\_ Nothing will come from this for many decades, if ever. They should
be spending that money on something useful like the homeless or
universal health care.
\_ You can use the homeless as weapons? Cool!
\_ The article mentions positronium, but makes no mention of trying to
use antihydrogen. Is there some reason positronium is preferable?
\_ We have to catch up to the terrorists who are already building
anti-matter weapons out of unobtanium.
\_ Why do you hate America?
\_ Why is this conducted by the Air Force? Shouldn't it be the Dept of
Dept of Energy? Air Force should be working on better planes,
Energy in a Lawrence lab? Air Force should be working on better planes,
better missles, and maybe better space-based weapons, not working on
something that involves so much fundamental physics.
\_ The Air Force typically has always held sway over the "cutting
edge/whiz bang/star trek side" of military tech.
\_ no. I know of quite a bit of far-out physics research
that gets funded by both the Navy and the Army. The army
spends a lot of money on quantum computing, and you can't
get much more star trek than that.
\_ My computer told me otherwise this morning. It was built
by the USMC with Marine-Tech(tm). |
| 4/14 |