9/11 Is it practical to have, say, a large portion of CA or AZ running
on solar power? My coworker runs his entire household via solar
and it got me to wondering what would happen if everyone did this.
Obviously industrial plants need more power, but could we do away
with a lot of our polluting plants if everyone went solar? If so,
then why don't we? What are the technological obstacles, if any?
\_ My car runs on solar energy. It harnesses the solar energy
collected over millions of years and dug up by some guys
in the Middle East to be transported and refined.
\_ One word: Cost. For your typical house, you'll use about 400
kilowatts/hour per month (4800 per year). You will need a
system capable of producing about 3K Watts/hour to meet that
demand (realworld figure is about 1.7K kilowatt hour produce per
year per 1K watt of solar panel here in CA). The cost to acquire
and install a 3K system is about $20K (this is with a $3 per watt
rebate from CA already). If you buy your electricity from your
CA utility it costs about $0.17 / kilowatt. The return will
be about 15-20 years. This does not include the cost of money
for the initial $20K!
\_ I agree that cost makes solar impractical for almost everyone,
but your abuse of units is causing me physical pain.
kilowatts/hour per month? energy per time to the third?
$0.17/ kilowatt? you think they charge by power not energy?
I'm guessing you're someone who basically knows what they're
talking about about solar, but is careless with units.
google now does dimensional analysis for you. use it.
\_ Economy of scale would drive these prices down; it makes sense
for State/City government buildings to install the tech first
to prove it feasible and efficient.
\_ How about we prove it first, then install? -- ilyas
\_ bullshit. silcon solar cells are not new technology
and they've already been shown to be not economical
for most applications. wasting taxpayer dollars will
not change this. I'm guessing you're actually a libertarian
troll who know this.
\_ Your anger betrays you. Take a deep breath and remember
your basic economics.
\_ For heating stuff, yes. For powering everything else in your
home like the fridge, computer, TV, etc., probably not. It takes
a lot of surface area (even at 100% efficiency) to produce
that much electrical energy.
\_ My coworker powers everything in his house via solar, even
his A/C. The surface area is surprisingly small. Very little
of the roof is covered in panels - maybe 4'x8'.
\_ He must:
a) have maaaaagical solar panels
b) use less power than a 1bdrm apt.
\_ Expensive.
\_ My coworker will break even in 7-8 years. If every new
residence was mandated to be solar then in a decade the
owners would be in the black. In the long-run it is
*cheaper*.
\_ There was a /. article recently on plastic
solar panels, which are apparently a lot cheaper than
current ones. -- ilyas
\_ Pollution, replacement needs, seasonal.
\_ The batteries need to be replaced, but I am accounting
for those costs. It isn't seasonal in places like CA
and AZ. Even an overcast sky is fine.
\_ It's not seasonal ... until those times when it just
rains for a while, and you are suddenly without power.
Being without power sucks.
\_ That's why we have an electric grid
\_ It makes too much sense. -GWB ps: buy more oil and coal for
my energy buddies.
\_ Solar didn't exist prior to GWB admin?
\_ The oil protection adventure in Iraq has already cost $2000
for every household in the US (assuming avg household of 4,
$200B/375M) ... That could have paid for at least solar water
heating for the entire country.
\_ There's a lot of toxic by products involved in creating the solar
panels. The batteries are toxic of course also. 10-15% efficiency
is considered very good in the real world, so forget the 100% thing.
And finally, the panels need to be replaced so often your pay off is
really more like 50-75 years.
\_ At which point it's just better to just wait until better tech
comes along. But let's not let facts get in the way, let's
MANDATE SHIT WITH THE IRON JACKBOOT OF THE STATE!
\_ Are you ilyas, or do you merely subscribe to his newsletter?
\_ With this attitute, our air pollution would rival China's
and our cars would still be getting 10MPG. We are in the
beginnings of a natural gas shortage, and we
need to switch to alternatives or sit waist deep in nuclear
waste. You don't need to have batteries if you are connected
to the grid, that lowers the price considerably. You can
also just do solar water heating which has a very quick
packback.
\_ My parents have solar panels that just power the pool. We don't
use the pool much, so we probably wouldn't pay to keep the thing
heated all the time, but since the upfront cost has already been
paid for, it's easy to keep the pool warm.
\_ Solar make sense in some area where 1. population is dense and 2.
AC is required in the summer. Why? cuz AC is very inefficient andif
you got a lot of people using it, the peak power consumption is
crazy. So, Mid-Atlantic area such as New York and Washington DC are
ideal places for Solar power, not California metro.
Another problem. Solar power generated in the household can't sell
back to the grid. If it could, then, the ROI will be much better.
People are toying around the idea of using excess solar power to
produce hydrogen, which might be an intermediate solution before
power generated by normal household can be sell back to the grid.
\_ The lies and mistruths perpetuated here are ridiculous. You
*can* sell your power back to the grid. My coworker has done
this in some years. It does not cost $20K after rebates and
incentives and break-even *is* about 7-8 years. He can power
everything in his entire household. (He does have a gas
dryer.) Rain doesn't matter, because the batteries hold a
lot of energy - at least, not the rain we get in CA and AZ.
After seeing his success, I wish to try it and I was
wondering why this isn't mandated. Is there a technological
problem?
\_ You are an idiot. It isn't mandated because we don't live in
a fucking planned economy.
\_ Um, and we don't allow coal-stacks in residential
neighborhoods why?
\_ Were Berkeley students always this weak on logic or
is this a recent development? |