Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:September:09 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2004/9/9 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:33427 Activity:moderate
9/8     So, I asked this a few years ago, it seems there should have been
        some progress on this front:   A calendar server for linux?
        Would be nice if it could work with outlook clients but not
        mandatory, would be nice if people could update their Cals from
        the web, would be nice if it was free.  I'm looking at calcium
        which seems like http://www.brownbearsw.com has just taken their
        popular but kind of klunky (and not free) ical and ported it to
        perl. [spelld]
        \_ There exist a number of commercial products for Linux including
           probably the ones from IBM, Oracle, and Sun/iPlanet but I don't
           think they work with Lookout.
        \_ Isn't there something from Ximian that apes all the nifty Exchange
           stuff?  Look around, there's quite a few things along these
           lines.  I believe Outlook is also fairly flexible in how it
           synchronizes with various apps.  For a nice web-based groupware,
           look at phprojekt.  I have some others lying around, mail me
           if you want me to dig them out.  -John
2004/9/9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33428 Activity:very high
9/8     So after the happy siege, the russians are now saying they will
        launch preemptive strikes against terrorist bases anywhere in the
        world.  Interesting, that. -- ilyas
        \_ Their big terrorist problem is right there and always has been:
           Chechnya.  Putin said he would solve Chechnya five years ago.
           All he is doing now is trying to look like he's in control; there's
           no new policy as far as I can tell.
           \_ Well, I ll give them a year or five.  If the russians are serious,
              I look forward to the world's reaction to russian 'unilateralism'
              with great amusement. -- ilyas
              I'll look forward to the world's reaction to russian
              'unilateralism' with great amusement. -- ilyas
              \_ The UN has already washed its hands of the Chechnya problem,
                 so don't expect any 'unilateralism' comments on activities
                 in Chechnya.  The Iraq problem, OTOH, was being handled by
                 an international coalition.  The US decided to break with
                 that coalition and the policy of containment. Hence the
                 term 'unilateral.'  Ilya, you're smarter than this. Are
                 you just bored?
                 \_ I am sorry, did you miss what russia actually said?
                    Preemptive strikes against bases _anywhere on earth_.
                    Not strikes in Chechnya which is old news, and no one
                    cares.  At this point, the rhetoric itself is amusing me
                    to no end, since it's, you know, American rhetoric.
                    On a slightly unrelated note, comments like 'Ilya, you're
                    smarter than this' are the flip side of the coin with
                    'You are an idiot' printed on the front.  It's a bland
                    tom holubesque insult slightly sugar coated.  You need to
                    work on your habit of going after the man reflexively as a
                    conclusion to anything.  I mean this is the motd so it's
                    ok, but in real life people will sort of stare at you.
                      -- ilyas
                    \_ Putin == Strong Soviet Leader!
                       Americans are with the Chechen terrorists, just like
                       supporting the Afghanistan insurgents!
                 \_ Containment?  In what way was the Oil For Stuff program
                    containing anything?  Who was doing this containment?
                    France, Germany, and Russia all had multi-billion dollar
                    deals with Hussein.  They sure as hell weren't helping
                    to contain anything.  Are you talking about Guam or
                    something?
                    \_ Containing Saddam from being a threat to his neighbors,
                       and to us from the possibility of his giving WMDs to
                       terrorists.  Bush incorrectly concluded he had WMDs
                       because the CIA is supposed to be smarter than him and
                       he thought that was fine.  The world was still looking
                       at a highly circumstantial American case.  And Saddam
                       was not a threat to his neighbors.  Are you a total
                       ignoramus?
                    \_ http://www.counterpunch.org/leopold06272003.html
                       Both the CIA and The State Dept said we had him
                       contained just fine.
                       \_ Apparently the CIA's opinion changed after 9/11.
                          They didn't want Saddam on TV saying, "Take that
                          stupid Americans" and the CIA not having said
                          anything.
                    \_ "And frankly [the sanctions] have worked. He has not
                        developed any significant capability with respect to
                        weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
                        conventional power against his neighbors. So in
                        effect, our policies have strengthened the security
                        of the neighbors of Iraq..." -- Secretary Powell,
                        24 Feb 2001 ... So containment was working until 9/11
                        at which point Bush had an excuse to invade Iraq.
                        \_ Dubya wasn't listening to Powell after 9/11.
                           He was listening to the CIA, "no doubt" Cheney,
                           and "slam-dunk" Tenet.
           \_ And you expected dramatic action a week later?  A week later the
              US was still looking for a target and making speeches.
              \_ Listen, dufus:  The U.S. had an obvious enemy in Afghanistan,
                 and had not done anything yet.  Russia has been stomping all
                 over Chechnya for the last five years and more.
        \_ It is quite understandable that Russians would use this siege
           as an excuse to go after Chechens with links to sesessionalists in
           as an excuse to go after Chechen sesessionalist leaders living in
           other countries. A number of Chechen leaders have received political
           assylum in Europe and Middle east. They might or might not be linked
           to Chechen terrorism. They all deny charges of terrorism but Russia
           claims they all have links to terrorists and demands their
           extradictions. No credible evidence of terrorist links has been
           extraditions. No credible evidence of terrorist links has been
           presented so far and the Russian requests have been frowned upon.  A
           few months ago, a Chechen ex-president who was living in Qatar was
           assassinated. Qatari intelligence services with the help of CIA
           quickly traced the assassination to the Russian special services.
           Two russian agents have been convicted and sentensed to life in
           prison in Qatar. Russians tried denying any involvment but the
           evidence was overwhelming. What Russians are now saying is that what
           happened in Beslan gives them a moral right to go after Chechen
           leaders living in other countries.  Europeans aren't buying this
           argument.
           \_ Will the Europeans bring it to the UN when their people start
              getting blown up on a regular basis?  Or just knuckle under and
              elect socialists like Spain who will turtle them up until it's
              too late?  The Islamic world has been fighting against the west
              for a thousand years.  They still are.  It is only now that some
              Western nations have come to realise this.
              \_ Which I guess goes to show how bad the Islamic World is
                 at warfare these days.
                 \_ http://strange.timetrip.net/?entry=throwrocks  -John
                    \_ Would you mind giving a summary of this?  I
                       don't like to watch videos at work.
                       \_ It's about 20 seconds long.  Sight-gag, largely.
              \_ A thousand years?  The Islamic world?  Using the same
                 broad generalizations that fuel statements like those, the
                 Poles are part of an economic powerhouse and empire that
                 has been enslaving and exploiting the third world for 500
                 years, and Laos is part of a technological revolution.
                 \_ The Poles don't make speeches to this day about how they
                    will be retaking Spain.
              \_ When the Europeans start being blown up, then the right
                 thing to do would be to go after the terrorists and I am
                 sure they well. But my point was that it generally appears
                 that Russia is pursuing its own political goals by going
                 after the Chechen leadership in exile. For example,
                 when Russia presented the "evidence" that Aslan Maskhadov's
                 representative, Ahmed Zakaev, is a terrorist, the British
                 laughed so hard that they gave him a political assylum.
                 \_ So it is ok for EU to sit back until they're getting blown
                    up, too?  Then going after terrorists will be ok?  The
                    British have opened the doors and provided legal
                    protection to all sorts of vicious evil human garbage.
                    The Brits giving asylum to someone means little.
              \_ That's the whole point. The Europeans are not getting
                 blown up, nor will they be, because they are no longer
                 imperialists nor do they support Isreal unblinkingly.
                 America still cannot admit to itself that these attacks
                 are the inevitable results of imperial policies.
2004/9/9 [Uncategorized] UID:33429 Activity:nil 66%like:33422
9/8     Stop selectively nuking the fri
        \_ Your 'cure' is worse than th
        \_ Log shows nuke from the bott
                \_ ok I just bottom up
                   \_  next time nuke f                 Himmler was here.
                       \_ Awesome idea,                 Tee hee.
                       \_ PLEASE don't
                       \_ cat /etc/motd
                          cut -c 1-40 /
                          mv /tmp/motd
                          \_ wow, you a
                             \_ thank y
2004/9/9 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:33430 Activity:nil
9/9     Survey: Millions in LA County struggling with literacy
        (Mexifornia here we come!!!)
        http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1210628/posts
        \_ Or you can look at it the other way, millions of Californians
           are illiterate in Spanish, which was the original official
           language. I mean, there's a reason why it's called "San Jose"
           and not St. Joe's.
           \_ why should Californians care much about the language that WAS
              the official language nearly two centuries ago?
2004/9/9 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:33431 Activity:moderate
9/9     Let's say that the average motd reader/poster makes 25$/hour, and
        always reads/posts from work.  Let's say that on average, there are
        60 posters/readers who spend an average of an hour a day on the motd
        every day of the year.  Then the total cost of the motd to the U.S.
        economy is about a half a million dollars per year.  w00t!
        Note: these numbers are for entertainment purposes only and are clearly
        bullshit.
        \_ Yes, these numbers are clearly bullshit.  You must be a grad student
           or something because $25/hour is roughly $50k/year and we know from
           previous discussion that the average here is a lot higher than that.
           Also, there aren't 60 unless you include the wall, nor is it likely
           an hour each, and an hour of work time is not lost since most of
           them are working more than 8 hours a day anyway.  I know you're
           just bullshitting around but it bugs me when people who don't work
           think they can calculate worker costs like this.
           \_ do you understand the concept of average?  If one person makes
              50$/hour, it cancels a 0$/hour student and makes 25$/hour.
              I did not imply that anyone actually makes 25$/hour.
              \_ So you're implying that students post to the motd? FOOL!
                 \_ I am, and I just did.
2004/9/9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:33432 Activity:high
9/9     Why is Pakistan so nice to the US? What are we giving them? Funding?
        Weapons? Intelligence?
        \_ they tried to kill the general
           \_ only after he said he was the Dubya's best friend
        \_ the promise of destruction
        \_ money.  without our money, their economy would collapse
           \_ I thought the deal was money for "counter-terror" which goes to
              buying toys for their army.
        \_ the only way to travel that remote countryside is with
           a thousand troops
           \_ Don't squish other people's posts!
              \_ The only way to post on the motd is with a thousand
                 troops.
        \_ Because they are a bunch of cowards and doesn't have true
           democracy. Isn't it great that what we do are only supported
           by our puppet government or countries that doesn't have true
           democracy?
        \_ Money and legitamacy.
        \_ El Presidente de Pakistan sided with the U.S. post-9/11.  The threat
           then was you were with us or against us.  He did the right thing.
           That was when the U.S. had credibility.
           That was when the U.S. had credibility and also wasn't overextended.
           \_ You never hear about the white house complaining that Pakistan
              needs to be more democratic and that it was run by a dictator.
              So the US supports dictator, as long as they are with you.
              \_ We could have just told Stalin to go fuck himself during WW2.
        \_ Geopolitics. They need allies vs. India.
2004/9/9 [ERROR, uid:33433, category id '18005#7' has no name! , ] UID:33433 Activity:high
9/9     Swift boat shit: Swift boat trolls on motd for weeks.
        Bush national guard shit: Nada.  Nothing.  Zip.
        Yep, the motd sure is Democratic!
        \_ We're all afraid of getting a 4am knock on the door from
           Homeland Security.
           \_ They bother to knock?
           \_ A guy I know who is active in his local Green Party checked
              his credit to see who else had been checking it.  The
              Department of Homeland Security had checked his credit without
              ever notifying him.  He's really not that active in terms of
              protest and stuff at all.  His involvement in the GP is the
              only remotely reasonable explanation for this.  Your tax dollars
              at work.
              \_ An Indonesian friend of mine was recently deported due to
                 the DHS "special registration" policy for people from Muslim
                 countries.  What I found very interesting is that when he was
                 interrogated, they apparently had all of his bank account
                 records - every single transaction listed.  No warrant had
                 ever been issued.  Is that legal?
                 \_ It is now.  The computer is your friend.
        \_ They are better propagandists than we are. Just admit that.
           \_ Y'know, it's funny.  It feels like we've known about all
              this for so long that we don't even bother saying it any
              more.  I think therein lies the Dems' problem.  We presume
              that people have better memories than they do, so we feel
              silly repeating ourselves.
2004/9/9 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:33434 Activity:nil
9/9     In a sh script what is the significance of the "X" character here:
          read yn
          if [ X$yn = Xn ]; then
             \- if $y is empty and you do if $y = foo, it well  generate
                a syntax error because the shell will see if = foo --psb
                \_ Thanks! --op
2004/9/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33435 Activity:high
9/9     http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&e=3&u=/nm/20040909
pl_nm/campaign_sticker_dc
        Why are they angry? They are the same as hitler. The comparison
        is perfectly valid.
        \_ http://csua.org/u/8yy
        \_ This is a blatant lie
           "MoveOn.org, an independent liberal group, briefly aired
           advertisements that featured a photograph of Hitler transforming
           into Bush's image. "
           The bush/hitler ad was one of hundreds of entries in a contest
           *run* by http://moveon.org.  It lost, was never even a finalist, and
           never aired.
        \_ Please note that the Dems came out immediately to denounce the
           sticker.  Who in the RNC denounced the purple heart bandaids?
2004/9/9 [Science/Disaster, Consumer/CellPhone, Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:33436 Activity:high
9/9     Ali Rahimi's dumb retro phone thing makes it into the NY times
        http://nytimes.com/2004/09/09/technology/circuits/09retr.html?8hpib
        \_ The bluetooth model would be cooler without the cord.
        \_ what's the csuamotd user id and password?
        \_ Go Media Whores of the CSUA, Go!
        \_ There's some dude in the UK who actually builds cell phones
           into old handsets.  Can't find the guy's page anymore,
           though.  They look pretty spiffy.  -John
2004/9/9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:33437 Activity:very high
9/9     Oh man, only 75 protesters showed up at Malkin's speach last
        night, and from the picture it doesn't even look like any of them
        were students.
        http://dailycal.org/article.php?id=16037
        \_ um, you're confusing active and outspoken Berkeley
           students of the 60s with the currently apathetic, confused,
           self-centered, and capitalistic minded Berkeley students
           of today.
           \_ things were pretty racist back then.  people today are like,
              where's the racism today?  Why do black people and hispanics
              get preferential treatment in admissions?
              \_ Mmm... uninformed troll...
                 \_ wasn't it pretty racist back then?  aren't BCR people
                    today asking where's the racism today, and why do black
                    people and hispanics get preferential treatment in
                    admissions?
                    \_ blacks and hispanics don't get preferential treatment
                       in admissions.
                       \_ yer right.  Admissions from these groups have
                          dropped a lot since the change in the UC system.
                          BCR people are actually thinking, "Yeah, see, we
                          were right."
                    \_ Yes, issues of racism have gotten better, but they're
                       definitely not gone.  To think that they are is
                       incredibly naive, immature, or stupid.
                       \_ yer right.  BCR people are worried about reverse
                          discrimination.
        \_ I would say most of the protestors were students.  There
           were 5 or 6 well behaved non student Spartacus league
           freaks outside of Dwinelle.  The Dwinelle hallway is just
           not that big so there wasn't that much room for much
           of anything to happen.  Michelle Malkin writes that
           there were hundreds of her supporters who couldn't get in,
           I don't agree.   oh that photo you are talking about
           is from the sproul lunch thing, i'm talking about her
           actual speech at the BCR meeting.  the protest photo
           was during daylight, malkin's speech was around 8pm
           last night. - danh
           \_ Whew.  I was afraid the Berkeley students were growing
              brains or something.  Nice to know I've still got plenty of
              idiots to laugh at.  Of course, inviting Maulkin at all is
              pretty stupidly funny.
                \_ you can get a good idea of where Malkin is coming from
                   just by reading her blog for a while
                   http://www.michellemalkin.com .  I really doubt she
                   woke up one morning and thought "The Japanese
                   internment was good for the motherland in ww2.  I must
                   correct this historical misunderstanding and write
                   a book!"   - danh
                   \_ She excoriates Delta Airlines for booting a non-paying
                      soldier from a flight in favor of a paying customer with
                      a ticket.  I wonder what she has to say about Halliburton
                      serving spoiled food to US troops.
                \_ it's very smart of the BCR boys.  they know if they
                   invite some nutcase who writes a book about how
                   the Japanese American internment was not motivated
                   by racism at all and actually helped the ww2 war effort,
                   she gets some more laughs by claiming they showed
                   up voluntarily and that over half of the camp detainees
                   were non Japanese, that people will get pissed
                   off and show up and shout a lot.  then the BCR
                   people and their unholy David Horowitz zombie masters
                   can include wild eyed photos of Berkeley liberals
                   in their next fundraising newsletter. - danh
                   \_ Americans of German and Italian descent were not ordered
                      to report to their nearest detention facility
                        \_ They were in the UK.  -John
                      \_ The Germans and Italians didn't attack American land
                         in the Atlantic, nor did they have any sort of naval
                         capability to do so (U-boats were ship-to-ship
                         weapons); only a handful of battleships/cruisers,
                         no real amphibious force, and no aircraft carriers
                         \_ The point was to clarify the "over half of the
                            camp detainees were non Japanese".  Those
                            individuals didn't have to be there if they were
                            American citizens and didn't break any laws,
                            unlike American citizens of Japanese descent.
                            In any case, if it floats your boat to say that
                            it was right to detain all Americans of Japanese
                            descent because the Japanese COULD have invaded
                            the U.S. and Japanese-Americans COULD turn traitor
                            and spy for the enemey, and innocent Japanese-
                            Americans had to be detained in the interest of the
                            greater good, so be it, but I want to hear you say
                            it.  So far all I'm getting is "what about this,
                            what about that", "I can understand why they did
                            that", but no "They were right to intern Japanese-
                            Americans!"
                            \_ Not to defend what was done, but put yourself
                               in the position of the guy who made that
                               decision the other way, "we won't intern", on
                               8 Dec 1941. Then a Japanese invasion force
                               arrives in 1942 and is aided by some Japanese-
                               Americans. Internment was the conservative
                               (and in retrospect, unnecessary) thing to do.
                               \_ Japanese emigration has long been funded
                                  in part by the War Ministry and ultimately
                                  became a national policy in 1932.  In
                                  Manchuria, for example, the line between
                                  Japanese immigrant farmer and the military
                                  has always been somewhat blurry.  The May
                                  15th incident, where elements of the Japanese

                                  Army assasinated the local Chinese warlord,
                                  involved participation by emigre Japanese
                                  farmers.  The Japanese Kwantung Army also
                                  drew recruits and support from Japanese
                                  emigres in China.
                                  \_ I am not sure if you could equate Japanese
                                     emigration to Manchuria with emigration
                                     to US.  Since 1895, and even before, Japan
                                     had wanted to make Manchuria part
                                     of the Japanese Empire.  I don't believe
                                     you can say the same for emigrants to the
                                     US.
                                     \_ Yes, I am sure a different department
                                        in the War Ministry handled US
                                        emigration.
                                        \_ Japanese also emigrated to SE Asia
                                           to work as prostitutes.  I am sure
                                           the War Ministry had a hand in that
                                           too.  Not to mention emigration to
                                           Peru, etc.
                                           \_ Now, I am sure you are aware
                                              of the logical fallacy in your
                                              prostitution claim.
                                              \_ no I am not, please
                                                 enlighten.
                                                 \_ Emigration for prostitution
                                                    is different than emigration
                                                    for more legitimate reasons.
                                                    \_ If prostitutes managed to
                                                       emigrate without the
                                                       War Ministry's blessing,
                                                       so could other people,
                                                       (for instance, people
                                                       who emigrated to
                                                       escape poverty)
                                                       which puts a big hole
                                                       in your theory that
                                                       Japanese emigrants all
                                                       emigrated in the service
                                                       of Imperial Japan's
                                                       interests.
                                                       \_ Again, the logical
                                                          fallacies fly hard
                                                          and fast.  1. I
                                                          never said *all*
                                                          immigrants were in
                                                          the service of
                                                          Imperial Japan.
                                                          2. That all Japanese
                                                          emigre prostitutes
                                                          were unsupported by
                                                          the Japanese govner-
                                                          ment does not imply
                                                          that no other Japanese
                                                          emigres were supported
                                                          by the government.
                                     \_ Was there ever a country invaded by
                                        the Japanese in WW2 where the local
                                        Japanese immigrants did not provide
                                        material or logistic support to the
                                        invading force?
                                        \_ what are the countries where the
                                           local Japanese did provide
                                           support?  China?  Where else?
                                           \_ Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan that I
                                              know of.  Now please come up with
                                              the counter examples.
                                              \_ I am not aware of many Japanese
                                                 in Hong Kong when the Japanese
                                                 invaded.  Taiwan was
                                                 a Japanese colony since 1895.
                                                 As for Korea, are you talking
                                                 about about Korea before or
                                                 after it became a Japanese
                                                 colony.  If after, it's
                                                 irrelevant.
                                  \_ Hello, loser:  You have just written
                                     "what about this, what about that".  I am
                                     looking for "They were right to intern
                                     Japanese-Americans".
                                     \_ It's so easy to speak from your
                                        air-conditioned office in front of
                                        a computer.  I envy you your
                                        innocence.
                                        \_ It's so easy to speak from your
                                           air-conditioned office in front of
                                           a computer.  I don't envy your lack
                                           of reading comprehension.
                                           I am looking for "They were right to
                                           intern Japanese-Americans".
                                           If you think that way, just write
                                           it down!  If you don't, write
                                           that down too!  All I'm getting is
                                           "I can understand why they did
                                           that" and "what about this, what
                                           about that".
                                           \_ If I knew what I would have
                                              known then, I would have done
                                              the same thing.
                                              \_ In hindsight, was it the right
                                                 thing to do?
                                                 \_ Hard to say.  I will
                                                    allow that some innocents
                                                    were caught up in the
                                                    internment.  Will I say
                                                    that everyone interned
                                                    were wrongly so?  No.
                                                    Would some of those
                                                    interned have provided
                                                    aid to the Japanese had
                                                    they the opportunity to
                                                    do so?  I suspect so.
                                                    Is the harm prevented
                                                    greater than the harm
                                                    created?  I don't know.
                                                    \_ You know you are being
                                                       misleading when you
                                                       say "some" innocents
                                                       were caught up in the
                                                       internment?
                                                       \_ What's so misleading
                                                          about "some"?  I
                                                          think "some" is
                                                          somewhere between
                                                          none and all.  Would
                                                          I believe that "most"
                                                          of the Japanese
                                                          immigrants here would
                                                          have provided aid
                                                          to a Japanese invasion
                                                          force?  Yes.
                                                        _/
                [Keep in mind we are talking about American citizens of
                Japanese descent, not non-citizen Japanese residents]
                Lieutenant Commander Kenneth Ringle, a naval intelligence
                officer tasked with evaluating the loyalty of the Japanese
                American population, estimated in a 1941 report to his
                superiors that "better than 90% of the Nisei [second
                generation] and 75% of the original immigrants were completely
                loyal to the United States." A 1941 report prepared on
                Roosevelt's orders by Curtis B. Munson, special representative
                of the State Department, concluded that most Japanese nationals
                and "90 to 98 percent" of Japanese American citizens were
                loyal. He wrote: "There is no Japanese `problem' on the Coast
                ... There is far more danger from Communists and people of the
                Bridges type on the Coast than there is from Japanese."
                \_ Who are "people of the Bridges type"?
                   \_ Guess first, then read:
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Bridges
                \_ You mean this report?  http://csua.org/u/8z4
                   This is just the first thing google popped up searching
                   for "ringle japan".  It certainly does not say what you
                   claimed in your post.  Your URL please?
                   \_ http://csua.org/u/8z5 (Amazon.com page scan)
                      Read the rest of the page, and the next page, too.
                      Note that the point I am trying to convey to you is that
                      the vast majority of American citizens of Japanese
                      descent were loyal and were no threat to America.
                      \_ Actually, you meant the page before your reference.
                         Yours was a quote of Ringle.  Now I refer you to
                         mine, which is a part of the Ringle report itself
                         (http://csua.org/u/8z4  Where his conclusion is
                         3% (or 3500 people) are actively dangerous.
        \_ why it makes sense to order all Americans citizens of Japanese
           descent to report to your nearest detention facility!
        \_ All Americans of Arab descent will report to your nearest
           re-education facility, to be held until the War On Terror
           is over.
           \_ the scary thing is, this could very well happen.
              \_ I doubt it.  More likely is lots of Arabs are questioned
                 by the feds and iffy ones are surveiled, as if that might not
                 already be happening.  100% detention of any ethnic group
                 in America is highly unlikely, because of our prior experience
                 in this area with Japanese-American internment.
                 Yes, even if there is a nuclear detonation, I doubt there will
                 be 100% detention of American citizens of Arab descent,
                 although there will certainly be plenty of hate crimes.
2004/9/9 [Transportation/Motorcycle] UID:33438 Activity:nil
9/9     Looking for that guesome motorcycle accident picture in Mexico where
        this guy's head got cut up open and you can see the blood/brain oozing
        out of the skull. I can't find it anymore. Thanks.
        \_ ob http://ogrish.com
         \_ the site doesn't have a search feature. sux.
2004/9/9 [Recreation/Dating] UID:33439 Activity:high 66%like:30675 66%like:35682
9/9     I love you all!
        \_ Shut the fuck up.
           \_ OB: typical motd
2004/9/9 [Recreation/Media] UID:33440 Activity:very high
9/9     A pretty classic Daily Cal movie review about the Korean movie
        "TaeGukGi: THe Brothers of War."  The last two paragraphs are
        CLASSIC.
        http://dailycal.org/article.php?id=15940
        \_ the chinese, south and north koreans in the movie were doing a
           fine job of killing each other in the movie up till the
           americans show up, and the americans don't really save anything.
           i think they should run a review by someone who is the child
           of korean immigrants.  plus the 'sappy ending' didn't
           even involve americans, the reviewer misses the point
           entirely. - danh
           \_ danh, have you seen it?  How was it?  Did you like
              Shwiri? -jrleek
              \_ I liked it.  I wouldn't see it over and over.  I never
                 saw the fish movie.  My favorite Korean movie
                 is "Musa" so the fish movie is probably not violent
                 enough for me. - danh
2004/9/9 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:33441 Activity:very high
9/9     Is it a particularly bad time to buy a new car right now? I need one
        soon, and my budget is around 35K. What makes/models would I get a
        decent deal on right now? 2004/2005 models are both ok with me.
        Thanks for any advice.
        \_ if you are in the luxury car market, I would recommend checking
           the used auctions.  A lot of luxury car owners keep their car
           for a year until the next shiny thing comes along, and sell it.
           There is one in Fremont.             -brain
        \_ It's always a bad time to buy a new car, asshole.  for an
           extra 35K you could buy a house that much closer to where
           you work, and probably have money left over to actually
           *invest* in something instead of pissing your hard-earned
           money away on a killing machine that instantly goes down in
           value after purchase.
           \_ Thanks, asshole. Wave me over the next time you're on your
              bike so I can run you down.
              \_ please call me from the hospital after your first heart
                 attack so i can laugh at you. fucker.
                 \_ You do realize that in all likelihood, you're a sociopath,
                    yes?  It's okay, man, there's nothing wrong with being an
                    impotent socipathic nerd.  Have a nice, day.  Poor guy.
                    \_ right, because I operate a machine responsible for
                       the deaths of 50,000 Americans, yes?  Oh, wait!
                       That's you!  fuck off and die.
                       \_ And delusional too!  Nice combo ya got there, kid.
                          Maybe you should up your meds.
           \_ $35K won't even make a dent in a house let alone move you
              to another neighborhood. Not in urban CA.
        \_ BMW 325/330. There should be rebates on http://edmunds.com
        \_ Care to tell us something about what kind of car you're looking for?
           \_ Sorry about that. 35K implies like entry-level luxuryish.
              I've got a sedan in mind. Something fairly nice, but practical.
              No need to be real sporty or anything, not trying to pick up
              chicks.
              \_ Infiniti G35 coupe, Cadillac CTS, Chrysler 300C is
                 particularly a good deal. You may also want to wait for the
                 Accord Hybrid
        \_ I'm of the opinion that new cars are always a waste.  You can
           get pretty good deals on repo'd cars at the Alameda County
           Auction.  You could get a 2002 BMW for $16,000 or so easily.
           check out http://www.acauction.com
        \_ I just bought a BMW X5 at $600 over invoice.  There are supposed
           to be serious deals on the X3 if you are willing to swing that way.
        \_ Read The_Millionaire_Next_Door and put your $35k into stocks
           instead. Unless you are a sales guy, or are trying to pick
           up chicks, you don't need a $35k car.
           \_ Okay, I sort of lied. I'm not too much into cars myself, but
              my dad is getting old and wants to have a nice car for once.
              So this is for him, okay? Thanks. -op
              \_ Wow, you are a nice person. What are you doing on the motd?
              \_ $35k is as much as what I gave my mother over three years.
           \_ You know, he just asked for some product advice, not financial
              planning or ethics advice.  It's not like he asked which casino
              has the best slots to spend $35K at.
        \_ An entry level Audi A6 fits nicely within your budget and it is
           a lot bigger than BMW 3 series.
           \_ Is bigger supposed to be a selling point?
              \_ It's a well-known fact that old people prefer land yachts.
        \_ if you loved your dad you'd buy him a motorcycle that your anal
           nagging annoying mother didn't let him have for the past 30 years.
           \_ The other advantage here is that you get your inheritence
              faster!
2004/9/9 [Computer/SW] UID:33442 Activity:nil
9/9     Save the bunny.  http://www.krohm.net/bernd.htm
        \_ Someone please tell me he hasn't actually recieved 33,000
           Euros.
2004/9/9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic] UID:33443 Activity:high
9/9     Islamic militants attack Austrailian Embassy in Indonesia.
        As usual, they kill a whole lot of innocent civilians, and not
        one Australian.
        http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=6195871
        \_ It is erroneous to write "as usual ... and not one Australian".
           cf. Bali bombing.  "oooohhh ....!"
2004/9/9 [Uncategorized] UID:33444 Activity:nil
9/9     "Where did YOU go fishing?" Peterson's father, Lee, said to [Laci's
        stepfather] Grantski on Tuesday as the families left the courtroom.
        "You come down here and I'll tell you where I went fishing,"
        Grantski replied sternly, heading down the courthouse escalator.
        \_ And then?
           \_ it doesn't always end in a wrestling match at Berkeley tunnel
2004/9/9 [Uncategorized] UID:33445 Activity:nil
9/9     What's a good place to buy CS textbooks online? Specifially, I am
        looking for Distributed Computing: Fundamentals, Simulations,
        and Advanced Topics, 2nd ed, Wiley-Interscience, 2004, ISBN:
        0-471-45324-2.
        \_ Compare at http://addall.com, do your own book shopping.
2004/9/9 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33446 Activity:nil
9/9     If Bush didn't go to War with Iraq, what would liberals be
        complaining about?
        \_ tax cuts for the rich, duh
        \_ Ditching Afghanistan once it was no longer newsworthy.
           \_ well, no, because if we didn't go into Iraq, there were a lot
              of people that said we should have double-downed in Afghanistan
              to nail bin Laden.
                \_ we know where he is, we're just not going to nail him till
                   a few days before nov. 7.
        \_ John Ashcroft, parts of the Patriot Act, etc.
        \_ deciding policy based on the extremist views of a hardcore
           Christian evangelical minority, completely ignoring Enron
           fraudulenty pumping up energy rates in the west, using
           "cut taxes" as his one and only response to anything
           economic related, trying to get rid of 100 percent of the
           estate tax permanently, pulling environmental crap like
           gutting environmental laws and naming the bill
           'the clear skies initiative', a culture of complete secrecy
           and policy of never ever apologizing in his administration,
           removing all civil service employment protection from
           the employees of the new homeland security administration.
           \_ This stuff is not being communicated to the mainstream.
              The surface talk, which is all most people see, is all
              about Kerry lamely defending one attack after another,
              and the media showing one clip of Kerry saying economy=
              bad and then another with Bush saying ecnomy=good. I
              think people are generally much more aware of Kerry's
              swift boat thing than the standard anti-Bush stuff
              that pushed Dean to the top in the beginning, because
              the other Dems weren't talking about it. Dean had the whole
              thing with the grassroots funding and anti-special interests.
              Kerry doesn't even really have a message these days, it's
              just lost in the noise. "Can do better" is NOT compelling.
              I have the feeling Kerry will flub the debates too.
              \_ RAARRAGHHAAARHGH!!!1! -Dean
                 \_ actually it's "yeeAAAIIIIOOOURRRGHHGH!".
              \_ The power of Kerry compels you!  The power of Kerry
                 compels you!
2004/9/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33447 Activity:very high
9/9     So CBS and 60 Minutes are so set on bringing down Bush they
        usef fraudulent documents!?? This is crazy.
        \_ The white house released their own copies and have not denied
           their authenticity.  You're pretty damn quick to jump on noise.
        \_ at least describe what you are trolling with.
           here i'll help you out
           http://www.powerlineblog.com
           http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40376
           \_ You know, I think they are fakes. -liberal
              \_ I think you are a fake.
                 \_ But the blog sounds so real.  We're all D00M3D!! -liberal
        \_ DAMN THAT LIBERAL MEDIA!!!
        \_ Proportional fonts notwithstanding, all military documents
           require the date be in caps.
        \_ The documents are real.
           \_ Have you ever served? Do you not know military protocol in regards
              to writing the date in only capitalized? It is like when armchair
              warriors do not know what Zulu time is. Format is always Zulu Time,
              Day, Month CAPITALIZED, year.
                \_ Is military protocal ALWAYS followed?  Even in things like
                   slapdash memos?  The existence of a regulation != 100%
                   compliance with it.  Not saying it's not a forgery, but
                   you should be a bit more precise (especially with badly
                   formatted motd posts.)  -John
        \_ Could the documents be transcriptions?
        \_ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9967-2004Sep9.html
           See, even the Post agrees.  Wah, I don't want Dubya to win. -liberal
           \_ Well no, that is not what that article says. Reread it.
              \_ It says the Post's experts say it's fake, and CBS won't
                 reveal its experts and that CBS checked it with Killian's
                 Republican, Bush-loving superior, but the guy isn't
                 returning calls!
        \_ The pdf's presented by CBS are obviously fakes.  One can overlay
           a Microsoft Word version and they match perfectly.  The
           question now is the motive and culprit.  This story first
           broke on http://freerepublic.com, BTW.
           \_ Please provide one in /csua/tmp.  I believe you, but I want
              to see what you've created.
              \_ Look here
                 http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog
        \_ I am not convinced either way (yet), reading all this neat
           stuff about the history of fonts is fun, your liberal friends
           have posted responses
           http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/10/34914/1603 - danh
                 \_ Thanks.  That pretty much seals it for that particular
                    memo, at least, in that it's not an original 1970s
                    copy.  The only possible explanation, for that memo at
                    least and perhaps the others, was that it was forged or
                    transcribed. -liberal
        \_ Whee! More media circus of irrelevant bullshit.
        \_ Call me paranoid but what if the Bush people are secretly the
           source of the forged documents? having this stuff come out and
           slathered all over the press and then proven to be fake is really
           benefitting Bush, because now he can still say he served his time
           etc, but also say "look at the dirty tricks the Democrats are up
           to!" so it just makes the Democrats look evil AND stupid.
           \_ Guilty as charged! -democrat
2004/9/9-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/OCAML, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:33448 Activity:high
9/9     Why are there so much politics on the motd? Isn't this the
        CSUA? Doesn't the C stands for something computer??
        \_ Its stands for Computer Stuff and Unrelated Arguing
           \_ Golf clap.
              \_ I didn't know there even was such a thing as a golf ho,
                 and you're telling me they've got their own VD's?
        \_ Yeah, let's talk about computer, or girls!!
        \_ When someone says something stupid, I feel I must succinctly show
           them the error of their ways, or at least show other reasonable
           people.  Oh well, I'll just let stupid people keep thinking that
           way.
        \_ The CSUA as an organization doesn't manage or have anything to do
           with the contents of motd.public. Politics get discussed so often
           because it's one of those things that never ends. You never finish
           the argument. And unlike more esoteric subjects for debate,
           politics is something that anybody and everybody feels qualified to
           participate in. Politics is always in the news. Other things show
           up on motd many times but nothing more than politics. Or Perl.
           \_ Hey, I would talk about programming languages, but not a lot
              of people care.  P.S. Perl is morally wrong. -- ilyas
                               \_ Methinks he doth protest too much.  --dbushong
                                  \_ SILENCE, SINNER!
                               \_ what do you think of ocaml?
                                  \_ Ocaml is a language built around a type
                                     inference system, and I think that's like
                                     the tail wagging the dog.  The bar for
                                     languages is set so low that if people
                                     see something with lambdas that's fast
                                     they get excited.  It shouldn't be that
                                     way. -- ilyas
                                     \_ Have you ever looked over Java?  I've
                                        generally found the structure of the
                                        language really presents itself for
                                        large SE projects.  The string
                                        manipulation elements built directly
                                        into the language are pretty awesome
                                        also -- they really cut down on the
                                        dev cycle, I've found.
        \_ Pontification is preferable to work.
        \_ it wasn't like this from 1980s till the late 90s, when the
           failed jobless laid-off dotcomers got bitter and started to rant.
           \_ Obviously someone who doesn't remember the bitterness of
              joblessness of the early 90s...
2004/9/9-10 [Uncategorized] UID:33449 Activity:high
9/9     This was deleted before you had a chance to read it.
        \_ This motd entry intentionally left useless.
        \_ Filthy liars!
                \_ Stellaaa!
                       \_ Adrieeeeen!
2004/9/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:33450 Activity:moderate
9/10    National Debt severely underreported:
        http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_bartlett/bartlett200409080940.asp
        \_ Oh, the irony.
           \_ How so?
        \_ Will everyone who thought they were getting SS in the future
           please raise their hand.
           \_ yes: ..
              no: ....
           \_ Back in high school when I researched it for a class I had an
              'uh-oh' moment.
        \_ Well, duh.  We never had a surplus during the Clinton years if
           you take into account SS/Medicare liabilities.  But like the article
           says, if you are in charge of the dollar it becomes really tempting
           to abuse the dollar, especially since spending money gets you
           reelected and saving it doesn't.
2004/9/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:33451 Activity:high
9/10    Did Bill O'Reilly ever appologize or make a correction/explanation
        for his made-up "Paris Business Review" statistic?
        \_ No, of course not.
        \_ If O'Reilly shows uncertainty and weakness in this decade, the
           world will drift toward tragedy.
        \_ If Bill O'Reilly owns up to mistakes, then the terrorists have
           already won.
           \_ I think Dubya is more eloquent than you.
2004/9/9-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Recreation/Stripclub] UID:33452 Activity:high
9/10    Dear CSUA Penthouse forum: when you're naked in a tub with a fat girl a
nd
        hot a girl, should you grab the breast of the fat one or the hot one
        first? ok thx.
        \_ that's a big tub.
        \_ Grab them both at the same time and have a hot threesome.
2004/9/9 [Uncategorized] UID:33453 Activity:nil
9/9     http://www.agentprovocateur.com/lost_control/lost_control_high.php
        NWS
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:September:09 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>