Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:September:02 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33289 Activity:insanely high
9/2     It takes a republican to put Elaine Chao, the first Asian American
        women in the U.S. Cabinet:
        http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/01/gop.main/index.html
        \_ more like, she had to marry a republican senator first.
           \_ Republicans are oppressing her with their big white penises?
           \_ http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/chao-bio.html
                \_ I am sure she's very capable herself, but that alone
                   isn't usually enough.
           \_ that is right.  Chinese communities knows Elaine Chao for years.
              and, if she never married to a powerful senator, she would never
              gotten where she is now.  Further, I hate her policies, and
              that alone is good enough for me to discredit her despite she
              belongs to the same ethnic tribe as I.
              \_ That's fine.  There are lots of Irish politians I don't
                 support.  I think race based support for anyone is
                 stupid.
        \_ I don't think the gwbush administration is racist.  I think
           they just hate poor people.
        \_ I hate those racist republicans!  We need more equal
           opportunity supporters like John Kerry and his all-white
           all-the-time campaign!
           \_ Yeah, like the way GWB has more non-whites in his administration
              at any level than Clinton did in 8 years and Kerry has on his
              staff now.  But don't let facts trip you up on the way to the
              next meeting of the proletariat, comrade!
              \_ You respond to obvious sarcasm by pretending it is an
                 honest statement. Boy are you stupid.
                 \_ Hi fool!  I was joining in on the sarcasm fun.  Thanks
                    for adding your idiocy to the motd.  We didn't have
                    enough stupid people here already.  Everyone understood
                    and let it be.  How'd you get so stupid?
           \_ But wait, say the Republicans, we're not racist. We put Colin
              Powell and Condi Rice in positions of power (where we can
              veto them immediately if they get uppity).  See? How can an
              Administration with token blacks possibly be oppressing blacks?
              Oh, that's right, by cutting valuable social services that help
              to redress more than 228 years of discrimination and outright
              oppression.
              \_ By putting people on the public dole, we lift them up and give
                 them incentive to do better from one generation to the next.
                 Er uh, yeah.  Right.  Have you ever been on the dole?  It is
                 the most anti-incentive thing I ever experienced.
                 \_ Except that the programs Bush has cut haven't only been
                    the welfare checks.  He's also cut housing subsidies,
                    funding for pre-school education, and tons of counseling
                    services.  If it was welfare alone, I'd be right there
                    with you, but when you take away the means to improve,
                    that's just wrong.
                    \_ Then you'd be unique among the left who think welfare
                       reform is the ultimate evil.
                       \_ Untrue.  See "Clinton and welfare reform."
                          (And if you're going to restore, restore it all.)
              \_ BWAHAHAHAHA!
              \_ Hey, can I have some of that?  My people were totally oppressed
                 for longer than yours. -- ilyas
                 \_ Than mine? I'm a Danish-Irish-Pole; my Danish ancestors
                    were oppressing my Irish and Polish ancestors before
                    Columbus was ever born.
                 \_ Wait, ilya, I missed the part where Russian Jews were
                    brought over in ships to do forced labor for their entire
                    lives on cotton plantations, and then "freed" only to face
                    official government policies of segregation and
                    discrimination for 100 years.
                    \_ Dude!  You had ships?  We wish we had ships.  We had to
                       go to Egypt and Babylon ON FOOT, UPHILL BOTH WAYS,
                       long before your ancestors even knew what slavery was.
                         -- ilyas
                       \_ This conversation has reached epic stupidity.
                          You don't think Jews have ever been SEGREGATED?
                       \_ You miss the point.  American government policy and
                          its people supported slavery and, later, "Jim Crow."
                          American government policy had nothing to do with
                          the oppression of the Jews - if anything, we helped
                          to save what was left of them with WWII.  The plight
                          of the African-American is a uniquely American
                          responsibility.
                          \_ The plight?  1) stop using crack, 2) stop shooting
                             your neighbors, 3) send your kids to school, 4)
                             install some values in your children, 5) stop
                             listening to music that glorifies thuggish street
                             life and says all women are whores and property.
                             That would be a good start.  You know, that whole
                             self responsibility thing.  Maybe we need a
                             Federal entitlement program to encourage more
                             self responsbility?
                          \_ I'm the guy who wrote the bit about tokens, and
                             even I can tell you straight up that American
                             government policy at several points had plenty
                             to do with the oppression of the Jews. We nearly
                             didn't even get involved in WWII because of
                             anti-semitism.  Look, both Jews and African
                             Americans have suffered. Cutting support to one
                             because the other's not getting a leg up is
                             just plain stupid and spiteful.
                             \_ I repeat, WHERE'S MY PIECE OF THE PIE!?
                                My ancestors suffered, damn it!  Gimme gimme
                                gimme! -- ilyas
                                \_ I blame the Jews.
                                   \_ And why not?  Everyone else does.  The
                                      weak always make good targets.
                          \_ Um, alright you should dig up the American
                             government and its people (who were around at
                             the time) and get them to pay up.  See, the rest
                             of the world has gotten past the feudal concept
                             of familial inheritance of legal responsibilities.
                             Maybe you should too. -- ilyas
                             \_ Do you support increasing the estate tax?
                                \_ jesus fucking batshit. why don't you
                                   spill some blood in the sharktank while
                                   you're at it?
                                \_ Do you support sending people to prison for
                                   what their 4x great grand parents did?
                             \_ Hey, it's not regressive to see that the
                                current social situation in the ghetto is a
                                direct result of both that "peculiar
                                institution" and Reagan's policy of cutting
                                assistance and enrichment programs, as
                                continued by the current administration.
                                \_ It may not be regressive, but it is BS.
                                   The "great society" did not increase
                                   the speed of blacks entering the
                                   middle class, it DECREASED the speed.
                                   Furthermore, prior to the great
                                   society, ghettos were pretty safe.  Now
                                   no one lets their kids walk down the
                                   street in the ghetto.  Woohoo!  Did we
                                   ever get a great society from LBJ!
                                   \_ Your claims are ludicrous.  Please back
                                      them up.
                                      \_ Yours is more so.  How does flooding
                                         an area with government cash encourage
                                         anyone to do better with their life?
                                         Please back up the claim that the
                                         ghettos are a result of Reagan's
                                         policies and slavery.  There were
                                         shitty ghettos and crime long before
                                         Reagan was around.
                                         \_ And yet another fallacy: throwing
                                            money at the problem does nothing.
                                            Spending money to improve schools
                                            (read: not on vouchers), provide
                                            retraining, educate children
                                            through Head Start and other
                                            pre-school programs, and provide
                                            drug-, health-, and job-counseling
                                            decreases crime and social welfare.
                                            \_ Spending money intelligently
                                               works.  Throwing money at a
                                               problem, by it's very nature,
                                               does not solve problems.  The
                                               schools are fucked because
                                               parents won't take responsibility
                                               for their kids in your nanny
                                               state and the teachers unions
                                               are all about the teachers
                                               unions and couldn't give a fuck
                                               about the kids.
                                         \_ I notice you have not provided
                                            the evidence. Perhaps because
                                            it does not exist?
                                            \_ I notice you have not provided
                                               the evidence.  Perhaps because
                                               it does not exist?  See how we
                                               can both play that game?  You
                                               made a stupid statement.  I
                                               challenged it.  Then you try to
                                               back your statement by saying I
                                               didn't back mine when you have
                                               provided no backing for your
                                               earlier statement.  That turkey
                                               doesn't fly.  Your debate fu
                                               is WEAK!
                                               \_ This is the first time you
                                                  have requested evidence.
                                                  I can provide plenty of it.
                                                  \_ It isn't but thats ok.
                                                     You're doing your best
                                                     and for that I think you
                                                     have earned a social
                                                     promotion to the next
                                                     level so we don't damage
                                                     your self esteem.
                             \_ Corporations live forever and can write
                                contracts far outlasting the life of their
                                signees. I think they can be held responsible
                                for their actions 150 years ago.
                                \_ Sue them.
                                   \_ Change the law so I can.
                                      \_ BWHAHAHAHA!!!  SO FUNNY!  Poor baby!
                                         You are such a victim!  What exactly
                                         are you going to sue them for and who?
                                         \_ There are plenty of corporations
                                            that benefitted from slave labor
                                            and could be sued. For economic
                                            damages of course, what else do
                                            you sue a corporation for? Are you
                                            this ignorant and rude in person?
                                            \_ I asked you to name them and
                                               what you'd sue them for since
                                               you weren't damaged by it.  Are
                                               you this obtuse in person?
                                               \_ A very quick google gives:
                          http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/03/26/slavery.reparations
                          http://www.millionsforreparations.com/lawsuit-ww.html
                                                  I think you can make an
                                                  economic argument that
                                                  the descendants have the
                                                  right to sue. We already
                                                  return solen art to the
                                                  decendants of the victims.

                                                  But the law would have to
                                                  be changed to make this
                                                  possible.
                       \_ Tell us about the legality of the sacking of Jericho
                          and the displacement of the Canaanites, ilya.
                          \_ Without the Infinity Trident we're defenseless
                             against the Five Jew Bankers!
                             \_ John is that you?
                             \_ Where's the magic spear and shield?!  I must
                                have the ring else all hope is lost!
                             \_ You idiot!  We made up the Five Jew Bankers!
                                \_ http://internationaljewishconspiracy.com
                                   (Relax, it's a satirical site, not racist.)
        \_ How did a conversation on Elaine The Asian And The Big White Penises
           become so intellectual?
           \_ Where exactly did it become intellectual?
        \_ I agree that the claims that the Republicans are racist are
           silly and
           counter-productive. It is not surprising that the Republicans are
           the first to put an Asian woman into the cabinet though. There is
           a great J. K. Galbraith quote about how it is the fate of American
           politics that the party that is not believed to embody a particular
           quality is the one that actually has to put it into practice. Just
           like how the Democrats are the party that actually has sensible,
           business- and growth-friendly economic policies. The Republicans
           don't need to have these, because everyone assumes that their
           policies are economically sound. The first Black or Female U. S.
           President will be a Republican.  - (one of many) motd liberal
           \_ thank god, there are people on motd has non-volitile memory.
           \_ last week we caught a Jewish spy, for some reason, we don't have
              the cox report and all that witch hunt.  Racism at work...
           (if the motd-format God would like to come bless me, I would
            be appreciative, otherwise sorry about the formatting)
                \_ I would except those other morons put their crap in the
                   middle making me uncertain who is writing the parenthetic.
                                --motd formatd
        \_ Chacellor Chang-lin Tien would have been another asian in the
           cabinet but the big China stealing nuclear secrets brouhaha made
           it impossible.
           \_ Tien was from Taiwan, not Mainland China.
                \_ it doesn't matter.  wenholee is from taiwan too.
                   incidentally, so it elaine chao.
        \_ Elaine Chao's chinese name means Little Orchid.
        \_ Does it ever occur to you guys that Lincoln was a Republican?
           \_ Somewhat clever troll, or didn't pay attention in U.S.
              History. Which one are you?
              \_ Are you saying Lincoln was a Democrat?
              \_ Yeah, Lincoln didn't want to ENSLAVE Americans, otherwise
                 he would be a Republican!
        \_ CSUA has its own Elaine
2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33290 Activity:very high
9/2     I figured the motd socialists would be out in force insulting the
        Republicans this week during the RNC convention.  You've got more
        fresh speeches and material to work from right now than any other
        time since 2000.  I'm disappointed you can't even make something
        up or take something out of context to get snarky and cute about.
        \_ Go stick your head in a pig.  To quote a whole lot of people on
           the motd from the last convention, who watches the damn things?
           They're just scripted television commercials.
           \_ This would fly except y'all get so hot n bothered and spend
              so much time digging up other old quotes and speeches.  Sorry,
              no dice on this reply.
        \_ Many of my friends are depressed because they have this sinking
           feeling (strictly gut-based) that Bush is going to win.  One
           is talking about retiring to his Tuscan villa for the next 4
           years.
           \_ Can we get them to promise in writing that they'll leave?  I
              thought it was really funny 4 years ago when a number of
              celebs were recorded promising to leave the country if
              Bush won, but mysteriously none did...
              \_ Is there a list out there of all of the celebs that promised
                 to go away?  I only know of one guy who actually did and he
                 isn't a major public celeb (some artist/writer) and already
                 had a place in France anyway.
                 \_ http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/leave.htm
           \_ Sad, isn't it?  That Bush can have 4 years with absolutely no
              meaningful accomplishments other than looking good standing in
              the rubble of the WTC, and yet he seems to have the momentum.
              \_ Isn't it just as sad that Kerry had 20 years in the Senate
                 and his claim to fame was marrying a rich widow and being
                 a war hero despite a handful of medals he might or might not
                 have thrown away?
                 \_ Its certainly better than what we got now.  His tax cuts
                    haven't worked and his war was a disaster.  In the words
                    of Donald Trump, "I'm sorry, but you're FIRED!"
                    \_ His tax cuts have been working.  Do you have a job?  Do
                       you know anyone who wants a job and doesn't?  The war
                       was the best fought war in the history of the planet.
                       We lost more soldiers on each beach on DDay than we
                       have in a year+ in Iraq.  Are you trolling or simply
                       ignorant of basic historic facts?
                       \_ The best fought war in the history of the planet?
                          The war that found not a single WMD and has created
                          a virtual jihadist factory?
                          \_ We took over a country in record time with fewer
                             deaths than seen on our highways in a few weeks.
                             Yeah, it was a poorly fought war.  You're an uber
                             military genius.  Were you one of the scumbags
                             that was hoping it would turn into a vietnam style
                             quagmire with body bags coming home by the
                             hundreds every week?
                       \_ Hmm... so you're bragging by saying we've lost fewer
                          soldiers in a war aginst a militarily inferior foe
                          than in one of the biggest battles in the largest war
                          ever, against a foe our technological equal?
                          I guess by your logic, Bay of Pigs was a resounding
                          success because we only lost a few hundred people.
                          \_ The Nazis were our technological superiors, btw.
                             \_ No they weren't (except for tanks). -- ilyas
                             And your comparison to the Bay of Pigs is silly
                             because maybe you didn't notice but we won in
                             Iraq but the Cuban nationals lost in Cuba.  They
                             weren't American soliders.  This isn't even
                             apples to oranges but more like celery sticks to
                             Ford pickup trucks.  At least get your very basic
                             history correct before you step up to bat.
                    \_ What do you mean?  I'm saving $30k just from personal
                       tax cuts and gobs more if you count in estate tax
                       changes.
                       \_ Then you're far better off than the larger chunk of
                          us, and probably were not hurting from it before...
                          Tell us.  How many new jobs have you created?
                          \_ Me personally?  I grew my group from 12 to 17
                             people in the last 2 years.  Before that I
                             started a company that went from 3 (the founders)
                             to 23 at its peak.  Hurting?  Why did it have
                             to hurt for me to appreciate keeping more of
                             the money I earn?
                             \_ YOUR anecdote trumps all statistics!  The
                                economy is roaring like never before!  Bush
                                has created millions of jobs!...oh wait, right,
                                he'll likely be the first president since
                                Hoover to have negative job growth...maybe them
                                pesky tax cuts aren't working out so well.
                                \_ He was asked how many job he created, he
                                   answered and then you attack him for
                                   answering!  BWHAHAHAHAHA!  YOU SO FUNNY!
                                \_ The recession started at the end of the
                                   Clinton years.  The troubles in high tech
                                   (and certainly in the telecom space where
                                   I play) now comes from over investment
                                   during the boom years.  Blame runaway
                                   optimism in the 90's if you want to assign
                                   blame.  The price of getting drunk is the
                                   hangover.
                                   \_ Uh huh.  I seem to recall Clinton pulling
                                      us out of a similar recession in 92 quite
                                      capably.  Then again, he didn't go
                                      starting some useless disaster of a war
                                      either.  Sorry, you're still FIRED!
                                      \_ According to the National Bureau of
                                         Economic Reserach, that recession
                                         went from 7/1990 to 3/1991.  It ended
                                         well before the start of the Clinton
                                         terms.  They also said the current
                                         recession was from 3/2000 to 11/2001.
                                         This started 3 months after the start
                                         of the GWB presidency, but it's still
                                         hard to pin it on him since it started
                                         only 3 months into his watch.  Please
                                         try to base your argument on data
                                         instead of urban myths and silly
                                         catch phrases.
                                         \_ Facts just trip us up and get in
                                            the way of our partisan frothing
                                            and mewling.  --wannabe motd lib
           \_ Is this the first presidential election your friends have
              voted in? This convention back and forth is typical.
              \_ Late 30's, not likely their first election.  Kerry can't
                 win this election; Bush can lose it.  It doesn't seem like
                 Bush will lose.
                 \_ Still too close to call, exactly the wrong time to give
                    up hope. Kick your friends in the ass for me.
                    \_ Not really.  Unless Bush rapes a nun on national TV,
                       the whole thing is done.
                       \_ In your dreams. It is not even close to finished.
                          It isn't even halftime yet. Do you even bother
                          to look at polls or do you just figure you can
                          predict the future better than the experts?
        \_ http://hosted.ap.org/photos/R/RNC18709020300-big.jpg
           http://hosted.ap.org/photos/R/RNC18809020300-big.jpg
           A picture speaks a thousand words.
           \_ All I can say about Zell Miller is: YEEEEEAAAAARGHHHHHHH!!!!!
              \_ Really?  'Cos "sell-out" and "collaborator" are what I'd
                 say about the man.  Mind you, that pic doesn't exactly
                 catch him in his best light: you know, a smoky back room....
                 \_ Just curious, did you feel the same way when the Senate
                    briefly changed hands when whats his face switched to
                    voting (D) from (R) a few months after he was elected
                    using (R) funds?  Or were you cheering like a partisan
                    hypocrite?
                    \_ The difference there is Jeffords actually followed his
                       conscience instead of hanging onto a misnomer like Zell
                       does.  Also, he didn't "vote (D)".  He tossed his vote
                       to the (D)'s for organizing the Senate and to give them
                       the majority and changed his affiliation to (I).  He
                       didn't necessarily vote with them on their bills.  In
                       fact, looking at what little that session did, his
                       switch didn't really do all that much.
                       \_ Jeffords was called a traitor, etc, by the (R) side.
                          He did the one thing which fucked the (R) for that
                          entire time period.  Voting however afterwards
                          doesn't matter as there are many in both parties who
                          cross lines for various things.  In this case, he
                          fucked his party so he could get the chairmanship
                          of a dairy committee he wanted to control for his
                          dairy state.  So short sighted and stupid he now has
                          nothing and his state got fucked twice over.  What an
                          idiot.  Anyway, as I said, you thought it was a-ok
                          for a (R) to turn coat but it is treason of the
                          highest order when a (D) does it.  Hypocrite.  At
                          least try to be honest with your rationalizations.
                 \_ Nah, I just meant he had some serious Howard Dean moments
                    last night.  First he chewed the scenery up with that
                    speech ("unleash rage" was the headline that the AP had).
                    Then he goes on Hardball and keeps challenging Chris
                    Matthews to a duel!
                    \_ Well, maybe he was having a Ted Koppel moment (TK
                       challenged Jon Stewart to a duel on The Daily Show).
                    \_ It doesn't matter how it played to some motd/Bay Area
                       leftists.  It matters that a Democrat Senator got on TV
                       and said his country was more important than his party
                       and that his party was fucked.
2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic] UID:33291 Activity:kinda low
9/2     State Constitution provisions on gun rights at the time
        of the founders.
        http://www1.law.ucla.edu/~volokh/beararms/testimon.htm
        \_ This guy rocks, btw. -- ilyas
        \_ A fascinating article: points out the individual nature of the
           right to bear arms but also points out that this doesn't specify
           the scope of that right.  Well-balanced, and purposefully
           inconclusive.
2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/911, ERROR, uid:33292, category id '18005#6.25625' has no name! , ] UID:33292 Activity:high
9/2     Democrats, You over slept - It isn't 9/10 Anymore!
        http://lifetrek.blogspot.com/2004/09/democrats-you-over-slept-it-isnt-910.html
        \_ So what you're saying is, 9/11 changed everything?  I haven't heard
           that one before!
           \_ He's saying your party didn't notice.
              \_ God, grow up freeper.  Did I say that I was a Democrat?
                 \_ Did I say I was a freeper?  I'm probably wrong.  You're
                    likely to be too far left for the Democrats.  I'm sorry
                    if I insulted a socialist by calling them a Democrat.
        \_ Gosh, I'm not sure I got the point of all of those speeches at
           the RNC.  Maybe if they'd held it on September 11, the point would
           have been clear.
        \_ "...enviro wacko's [sic]..." "...job loses [sic]..."
           "...full years [sic] economic activity..."
           The guy's a moron.
2004/9/2 [Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:33293 Activity:nil
9/2     This whole motd just deserves a nice healthy "fuck all ya'll."  So
        here goes:

        FUCK ALL YA'LL!!!

        There.  I just made my own day.
2004/9/2 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Recreation/Travel] UID:33294 Activity:very high
9/2     Hello guys I have a dilemma. I booked Holiday Inn on the internet
        and on the day that I checked in they gave me a smoking room. They
        didn't have anything else, but I couldn't take the room because of
        serious asthma (I ended up going to a nearby B&B place). After talking
        to the managers and the corporate HQ they still refused to give me
        a refund, I filed the complaint to BBB. BBB returned saying that
        they can't help us, and that I should try one of the four choices:
        -Small Claims Court Santa Clara County
        -State Contractors Board
        -Consumer Affairs State of California
        -District Attorney of Santa Clara County
        Which choice is the best? Thanks,
        \_ Go to small claims court. Let us know if you need help.
           The rest of you STFU, because you don't know squat about
           the statutes involved or basic Tort.
           \_ All bow down before the anonymous legal expert!
              \_ For the uninitiated: A) You don't know the real facts of
                 the case. B) You don't know what statutes apply to
                 the case, C) You don't know if the situation involved
                 actually violates the rule of law, D) You don't know
                 in what situations that rule of law should be upheld.
                 Ergo, you cannot make a summary judgement of whether
                 or not the OP should or should not receive due
                 compensation. Therefore, STFU. And yes, I am
                 qualified to comment on the subject...
        \_ if you KNOW you have problems with SMOKE, make sure you
           get a NON SMOKING ROOM explicity upon reservation
        \_ Why do you hate smokers?? They gave you 1 room, which you chose
           not to take.  Pay up, chump.
        \_ If you just 'requested' a non-smoking room, that's expressing a
           preference and it doesn't obligate them to give you one, just like
           asking for a window seat on an airplane doesn't entitle you to one.
           If you told them you require a NS room when you made the reservation
           or they promised one, you have a much better case.
                \_ ah, but the internet didn't even give me a choice!!!
                   \_ sure, blame it on the internet!!!
        \_ Tell corporate HQ to "Give me my money back or I'm going to file
           an ADA suit with one of the ADA ambulance chasers".
           \_ The thing is that while they are required to be accomodating,
              you have to give them reasonable notice of your disability by,
              say telling them you're asthmatic when you make the reservation.
              Cal provides ASL interpreters for lectures, but if a deaf student
              doesn't give them warning ahead of time, they're SOL.
        \_ hey, if they charged to your credit card.  Call your CC company to
           dispute it.  You can't be charged for services not rendered.
           \_ The reason they can charge you for a canceled reservation if
              because you could cause them to hold a room for you that could
              go to a customer who shows up and pays.  If there are lots of
              rooms available, a canceled reservation charge is not covering
              any actual damages.  If there are no other vacancies, as this
              sounds like, then be reserving and then canceling, you *did*
              cause damages in the form of a reserved but unused room.
           \_ credit company said it is my fault for breaking the 24 hour
              clause set by Holiday Inn.                        -op
              \_ just think of it as payment for a lesson learned, ok?
        \_ for most people, "smoking or not" is just a preference, not
           life-threatening choices.  It's too bad that it is for you, and you
           should be reponsible for getting message acrossed to those who
           handles your hotel room.
        \_ if you have some reason to need or want a non-smoking room or
           other preference, state it to to the hotel.  If the hotel can
           not or will not cater to your needs or wants, they the hotel
           needs to inform you of this in a timely fashion.  If you dont
           state this to the hotel, tough shit.  If the hotel tells you
           at the last minute that they can not fulfill your request, that's
           bad faith.
2004/9/2 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:33295 Activity:kinda low
9/2     Hi, my old PC can dual-boot between DOS (don't laugh) and NT.  It has
        quite a few NT apps installed.  Now if I install Win2k or XP onto the
        PC, will I be able to dual-boot between DOS, NT, and 2k or XP?  Does it
        matter if I install it on the same or different hard disk?  Also, will
        I have to re-install all the NT apps in order to run them in 2k or XP?
        Thanks.
        \_ It is possible to boot all those OS's but you should do backup first
           and practice on some other box first.  It's very easy to fuck it up.
        \_ If you 'upgrade' your NT to XP, then you don't need to reinstall
           all the apps, but you probably can't dual boot to NT anymore. If
           you installed XP on another partition, then you can dual boot to NT,
           but you probably need to reinstall all the software again. As for DOS,
           installing XP will override the current boot sector, which should be
           that of NT, your dos boot sector is in bootsec.dos (or something like
           that) and should continue to work.
           \_ Can the XP bootloader be configured to load DOS and NT
              partitions?
              \_ I think so, but they all want some files on C:, which is kind
                 of messy to deal with. If you really want to dual boot that
                 many OS, I've heard good things about VMware, or use the linux
                 boot loader.
        \_ I am a hardcore DOS fan and I havn't ran dos for years, what exactly
           do you need DOS for? My pentium system died a few years ago and I
           haven't ran dos since. What I do have is a nice boot disk containing
           lots of what use to be useful utilities for emergencies. But in the
           days of booting from CD directly, I havn't used it either. Just do
           a clean install of XP and you'll thank yourself. upgrading from a dual
           boot system of dos/NT is just not worth the trouble. If you really want
           a dos system, put it on a old machine.
           \_ I use DOS for exactly the same thing as you do - boot diskettes
              with utilities for emergencies.  So I need a hard disk that can
              boot DOS such that I'll able to make new boot diskettes when the
              old ones fade away and no longer boot.
2004/9/2 [Uncategorized] UID:33296 Activity:nil
9/2     Let's try again... and this time, something interesting.
        \_ Knock Knock
           \_ Fuck off
           \_ Zell Miller
2004/9/2-3 [Recreation/Activities] UID:33297 Activity:high
9/2     Anyone know a good place to buy running shoes? Ideally they would have
        a large, well-stocked selection of many brands, and include "trail
        running" sorts of stuff. REI and Sportmart don't fit the bill. In
        the south bay area. Thanks.
        \_ Check the sporting goods store in Valley Fair.  Great Selection.
           Copeland Sports is the place.
        \_ after watching my wife suffer the pimply kids at a general
           sporting goods store and finally finding a running shoe
           boutique, i am a believer in specialty stores.  ours was in
           west LA so can't help you exactly.  but use the yellow pages
           and "interview" the store.  a good wone will have staff who
           are runners, who know feet, and who can look at your feet
           and match you with shoes for your purpose.
        \_ On the Run on 9th Ave in San Francisco.  You only have to drive up
           once...
2004/9/2 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:33298 Activity:nil
9/2     What this motd needs is some bad ascii art:
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |       |\                                           -~ /     \  /          |
|~~__     | \                                         | \/       /\          /|
|    --   |  \                                        | / \    /    \     /   |
|      |~_|   \                                   \___|/    \/         /      |
|--__  |   -- |\________________________________/~~\~~|    /  \     /     \   |
|   |~~--__  |~_|____|____|____|____|____|____|/ /  \/|\ /      \/          \/|
|   |      |~--_|__|____|____|____|____|____|_/ /|    |/ \    /   \       /   |
|___|______|__|_||____|____|____|____|____|__[]/_|----|    \/       \  /      |
|  \mmmm :   | _|___|____|____|____|____|____|___|  /\|   /  \      /  \      |
|      B :_--~~ |_|____|____|____|____|____|____|  |  |\/      \ /        \   |
|  __--P :  |  /                                /  /  | \     /  \          /\|
|~~  |   :  | /                                 ~~~   |  \  /      \      /   |
|    |      |/                        .-.             |  /\          \  /     |
|    |      /                        |   |            |/   \          /\      |
|    |     /                        |     |            -_   \       /    \    |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|          |  /|  |   |  2  3  4  | /~~~~~\ |       /|    |_| ....  ......... |
|          |  ~|~ | % |           | | ~J~ | |       ~|~ % |_| ....  ......... |
|   AMMO   |  HEALTH  |  5  6  7  |  \===/  |    ARMOR    |#| ....  ......... |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
        \_ I was going to delete this because it is utterly stupid, but then
           I realized that the rest of the motd is even stupider.
                                                        \_ more stupid
           \_ Hey!  Don't delete motd entries out of order!  Are you trying
              to get ilyas squished?? -meyers
              \_ w00t!
2004/9/2 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:33299 Activity:very high
9/2     http://csua.berkeley.edu/~fonger
        WHO IS THIS?
        \_ a transformer, robot in disguise.
        \_ Who, fonger or the chick?
           \_ That's not fonger?
        \_ Hot!
        \_ Wow!  Is fonger the hottest chick on soda?
          \_ I like lisha personally.
             \_ karen has 'em both beat easy.
                \_ Any pics of lisha and karen?  There's none in their home
                   pages.
                   \_ Go away chronic masturbator.
                \_ that is difficult to imagine.  Fonger is damn near perfect.
\_ Login: fonger                           Name: Fong Lin
   Directory: /home/sequent/fonger         Shell: /usr/local/bin/tcsh
   Never logged in.
   No Mail.
   No Plan.
        \_ If fonger has never logged in, how does he/she have a webpage?
           \_ wtmp rotates
           \_ It doesn't matter.  Politburo will have the resolve to squish
              these h0z3rs.
              \_ What?  I don't think this sentence makes sense.
                 \_ Not squishing fonger can only encourage our enemies and
                    confuse our friends.
2004/9/2 [Uncategorized] UID:33300 Activity:nil
               _
             .-' '-.
            /       \
           |,-,-,-,-,|
          ___   |
         _)_(_  |
         (/ \)  |
         _\_/_  /)
        / \_/ \//
        |(   )\/
        ||)_(
        |/   \
        n|   |
       / \   |
       |_|___|
          \|/
         _/L\_
2004/9/2-3 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:33301 Activity:high
9/2     Is it possible to download bloody patches (patches that show actual
        blood instead of a cross) and Swastica patches for Battlefield
        1942/Vietnam games? I want more realism...
        \_ Get out a pixel editor.  Anyway, good games don't require that
           stuff.  One of the best fighting games I ever played was so good I
           didn't even notice there was no blood or special killing moves
           until I'd been playing for 2 days.
           \_ Uhh... which would called?
        \_ Yes.  Google for 'blood patch.'  Also if you mail me I will dig
           out a URL that has a ton of good no-cd patches and the likes.  Be
           careful though, as patching the exe may cause trouble with things
           like Punkbuster for online play, as well as with other forms
           of verification used by the game.  -John
           \_ if I patch the enemies, would they glow bright in the jungles?
              I'm wondering if I can do this so that I can see them clearly
              and piss everyone off.
                \_ Probably.  There are plenty of "overlay" clients that
                   run behind your game and recognize certain color tones
                   (i.e. enemy uniforms) and highlight them. -John
                   \_ Use motdedit!
2004/9/2-3 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:33302 Activity:kinda low
9/2     How do I use a variable expansion in perl regex?  Something like
                $PATTERN = ".*foofoofoo";
                $_ =~ s/$PATTERN//g;
        Basically I'd like a C #define style expansion of $PATTERN.  TIA
        \_ The above should work. You might want to add the "o" flag to
           the s/// operator for efficiency if your $PATTERN doesn't change.
        \_ Also, you don't need to say "$_ =~ "; it's implied.
2004/9/2 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:33303 Activity:nil
9/2     Wow this is funny. And has nothing to do with BushKerryNader:
        http://virt.vgmix.com/jenny18
        \_ Any emacs port for it, similar to M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead?
2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:33304 Activity:nil
9/2     Wait, I thought Scwharzenegger wasn't going to need all that lobbyist
        money because he's rich.  He'll be so much better than Davis!  Oh
        wait... http://csua.org/u/8wo (yahoo! news)
2004/9/2-3 [Uncategorized] UID:33305 Activity:nil
9/2     Alien contact? No really, for reals:
        http://csua.org/u/8wn
        \_ This piece conveniently omits this quote from the source
           http://newscientist.com article:
           David Anderson, director of SETI@home, remains sceptical but curious
           about the signal. "It's unlikely to be real but we will definitely
           be re-observing it."
2004/9/2-3 [Uncategorized] UID:33306 Activity:nil
9/2     I am considering getting an used cycle trainer for indoor use.
        Anyone uses it and feels it's a good fittness equipment?
        \_ don't forget to get a good fan if you don't have one already
        \_ It's good, but it'll eat your tires.
2004/9/2 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:33307 Activity:high
9/2     Windows is finding executables not in my path, does anyone know
        how the lookup is done? it runs abc.exe even though abc.exe is
        no where in my path. Thanks.
        \_ Are you referring to Start button -> Run, or from a console window?
           For example, if I run msconfig.exe from a DOS prompt, I get no
           command found.  If I run it from the Start -> Run, it gets run.
           \_ start/run
              \_ Windows stores the paths to certain executables in the
                 registry in
                 HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths
2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/911, Computer/SW/Security] UID:33308 Activity:nil
9/2     http://csua.org/u/8wm (LA Times)
        A senior Russian security official said authorities are faced with a
        dilemma even worse than the 2002 seizure of the Dubrovka Theater in
        Moscow by Chechen militants, which led to the death of 129 hostages
        and 41 guerrillas when Russian troops gassed the theater and stormed
        in. "The situation is much worse than Dubrovka. Believe me, much worse
        ... It seems almost certain that the hostage-takers are not really
        interested in negotiations, or any demands. So far, we haven't gotten
        any coherent statement of what they really want. ... They are just
        biding their time, as if waiting for us to start storming this school,
        and then they will blow everything up. I think they are ready to blow
        themselves up, together with the hostages, in any case. It seems to be
        their one and only plan."
        So, you are Putin.  What do you do?  Please withold jibes about vodka
        and "In Soviet Russia ...".
        \_ Decimate the Chechens (i.e. kill every 10th).  Do so after every
           terrorist act by the Chechens.
           \_ I read that as Chickens and was very confused...
           \_ "Fear...will keep the local systems in line."
        \_ As far as the current crisis, there is really only 2 options.
           A siege, starve them out, or gas 'em again.  Probably niether
           would be very effiective.  I guess the previous guy's idea
           might work over the long run.
           \_ Why not a standoff while you try to bring in some hostage-taker's
              relatives and religious authority figures and see if they can
              convince them to let everyone go in exchange for amnesty.
              \_ Oooo, family members.  Good idea.  But who's getting the
                 amnesty?  The terrorists or the family members?  North
                 N. Korean style would be to kill the terrorists AND their
                 extended families.
        \_ tactical nukes over rebel hideouts
           \_ Why do you hate thermonuclear weapons?
              \_ You're really a moron, you know that?  You undercut any
                 sensible counter-argument Cheney and friends *could* have.
                 \_ I don't think the thermonuclear comment was made
                    seriously.  You're STILL the moron.
                    \_ Cheney offers to help with Russian hostage
                       situation!  "We have to many of these things
                       anyway, and I've always wanted to drop one or two
                       on Ruskies!"
2004/9/2 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:33309 Activity:nil
9/2     If i buy a MotherBoard with 2 SATA ports, does that mean I can only
        have 2 SATA devices attached or is there some chaining possible?
        \_ Only 2 SATA drives, although your MB probably has 2 ATA connectors
           too for optical drives and the like.
2004/9/2 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33310 Activity:nil
9/2     Op-ed from March 2004, but posted to contrast with Cheney's claim
        that Bush's pursuit of the Iraq war forced Libya to disarm on nuclear.
        http://www.brookings.edu/views/op-ed/indyk/20040309.htm
         - The Iraq War did not Force Gadaffi's Hand
        "However, in doing so, Mr. Bush completed a diplomatic game plan
        initiated by Mr. Clinton. The issue here, however, is not credit.
        Rather, it is whether Mr. Gadaffi gave up his WMD programmes because
        Mr. Hussein was toppled, as Mr. Bush now claims. As the record shows,
        Libyan disarmament did not require a war in Iraq."
        \_ So Bush was just a pawn in Clinton's on going game of power
           politics?  Yes, this all makes sense.  Black is white.  War is
           peace.  Two is one.  It all depends on what the meaning of "is" is
           since I voted for forcing Kadaffi's hand before voting against it.
           Or something inane like that.  I'm definitely going to invest in
           the tin and hat industries.
           \_ You're really a moron, you know that?  You undercut any
              sensible counter-argument Cheney and friends *could* have.
              \_ I don't think he is a moron so much as schizophrenic.
2004/9/2-3 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:33311 Activity:moderate
9/2     If I want to put images on my (non-profit) website that were
        not mine (e.g. scanned in from a book or grabbed from other
        webpages) but I did credit the original source, is that allowed?
        \_ I've seen more and more sites putting up explicit "fair use" notices
           which explain that the work is being used for research purposes or
           public benefit, that the original copyright terms still apply for
           downstream usages, etc. etc.  You can probably google for an example,
           which may or may not be copyright restricted itself.  What's your
           site?
        \_ No, you need explicit permission.
        \_ It's a very sticky situation.  In some cases, it's allowed, but in
           many cases it's not.  Can you be more specific?
        \_ Do some research, find out who owns the copyright, and ask for
           permission.  Unless it's an original for-profit work of art,
           most people will let you use it as long as 1) they don't find
           your page insulting, and 2) you credit the source. I used animal
           pictures from kidsdomain and a regional park service to build my
           Ecosystem game: http://www.ecosystemgame.us
           \_ aaaaaaah! you got me! I can no longer resist the urge to
              become a marine biologist!  you've ruined my life!
              \_ Wow, really? I was really aiming for the 8 to 11 age range,
                 but a convert's a convert.
                 \_ I'm kidding.  I'm a physicist, so any system with more than
                    two kinds of atoms is probably out of my reach.  Cool
                    website, though.
                    \_ Thank you.
2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33312 Activity:nil
9/2     http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/2004-09-01-moore_x.htm
        Michael Moore:  ... I would like to hear [GWB] say tonight, "I'm sorry.
        There never were weapons of mass destruction and there never was a
        connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. There was no imminent
        threat, our lives were not in danger, no missiles were going to hit
        Cleveland." (The next sentence regarding oil was stupid.)
        ... The other thing I would like to hear tonight is: Why haven't you
        caught Osama bin Laden? You've had three years to find him. The man
        killed nearly 3,000 people here on our soil.
        \_ The Village Voice told me that BushCo already caught bin Laden a
           long time ago and is waiting for some key moment to let us know.
           \_ The eve before the election?
        \_ To deny that Iraq, along with Iran, Syria, and Lybia, were the
           largest state sponsors of terror over the past 30 years is
           patently false.  Two are down, two more to go.
           \_ Who's denying Iran, Syria, and Lybia [sic] are the largest
              state sponsors of terror?
2004/9/2 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:33313 Activity:high
9/2     Gee, thanks for restoring all that toxic crap.
        \_ If you want to end the toxic crap, shut down the wall and motd.
           Or just kill all people.  That'll do it, too.  Personally, I think
           a shovel and some sand works best.  What's your preferred method?
           \_ So you are suggesting that people are inherently incapable of
              disagreeing without getting themselves worked up into snits
              and spewing toxic crap?
              \_ Yes, I am.  At least around here.  Anonymity has nothing to do
                 with it either.  Plenty of non-anonymous people do plenty of
                 vicious and sickening spewing.
                 \_ "at least around here?" You haven't been following the
                    tone of the presidential debates?  Or do you think that
                    George Bush and John Kerry are CSUA members?  I think
                    the level here is actually higher than at the national
                    level.  yes, this is absurd and sad, but it's true.
                 \_ Ok.  I'm willing to accept that, at least for the moment.
                    Now what is it about "around here" that makes things that
                    way?  Its definitely not the CSUA, as the CSUA office is
                    generally a pretty agreeable place and the motd is
                    definitely not (at least by any sane definition).
                    Special exception for the twohey-162-partners-baseball-bat
                    incident.
                    \_ I suspect it is simply distance created by the net.
                       It is easier to say things on the net most would never
                       say in person.  Although I know some around here would
                       not feel constrained even by that, the presence of those
                       people only makes the net.distance problem even worse.
                       Just my opinion.  Neither humble, nor bold.
                    \_ It's what makes lots of people assholes on the Internet
                       -- the fact that there isn't a punch in the face waiting
                       for you.  There is nothing special about soda. -- ilyas
              \_ anonymity removes restraint.  -tom
                 \_ Cool, I wanna see another ilya/tom faceoff!
                 \_ So does lying about your identity. -tom
              \_ Tom, turning a lack of shame or reserve into a virtue does
                 not suit you.
                 \_ get a clue.  -tom
                    \_ My bad, turning your lack of shame into a virtue _does_
                       suit you.
2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:33314 Activity:nil
9/2     UCB.  EFF.  ACLU.  FSF.  Yer mom.  Who else?
        \_ FBI.  CIA.  ATF.  DHS.  OH MY!!!!!
           \_ Of course.  As a taxpayer, I already support those.
2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33315 Activity:nil
9/2     http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/02/binladen.wealth.ap/index.html
        Bin Laden didn't support 9/11 afterall.
        \_ rtf911cr
2004/9/2 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:33316 Activity:nil
9/2     For the hostage crisis, here's one plan: Have a confidental meeting
        with the family members of the hostages, explaining to them that we
        (well, the Russian govt) know that the hostage-takes are going to blow
        up everyone no matter what we do, hence we're going to raid the school
        beause that's more likely to save more.  Then keep the family members
        away from the media and start the raid as quickly as possible after
        the meeting.  After it's over, family of the hostages alive would be
        grateful, and those of the dead ones will hopefully understand that
        the raid isn't a mistake.
        \_ you are brilliant.  call the kremlin with this remarkable plan.
        \_ Nanobot assassins are the answer.
        \_ And YOU soldier will get to be the first one in!  GO, GO, GO!
        \_ I wonder if Russia is going to take Isreal's stance on guns in
           schools?
2017/11/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:September:02 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>