Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:31 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/8/31 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33240 Activity:insanely high
8/31    Bush makes Garrison Keiller go nutzoid:
                 \_ psb was certainly not in the "republican:evil
                    democrat:good" camp 4 years ago. This is another one of
                    gwb's achievements. - psb #37 fan
        \_ I enjoyed that. Thanks. --aaron.
           \- A good example of irony is the flourishing of political
              rhetoric [in english anyway] set off by the rise of
              the Chimp-in-Charge --psb
                 \_ psb was certainly not in the "republican:evil
                    democrat:good" camp 4 years ago. This is another one of
                    gwb's achievements. - psb #37 fan
           \_ Keillor is a great writer.  Even if you like Bush you should
              check this out - definitely in the great tradition of the
              American polemic a la Mark Twain.
        \_ Waaaa!  I liked it better when MY party were the gerrymandering
           fear mongers!  What happened to Democrat victimhood, and
           Democrats being the ones taking all the bribes?  Davis, 'O
           Davis, where art thou?
           \_ Garrison Keiller is most definitely not a Californian, so why are
              you blabbering about Davis?  Trying to start another Arnold flame
              war?  I've got news for you - Davis lost.  We've moved on to
              Swift Boat.
              \_ Sheesh.  Did you notice the whole post was about Democrat
                 things of the past?  I was making fun of Keiller's
                 article by pointing out that everything he accuses the
                 Republicans of are things the Democrats are famous for.
                 And I used things from Democrats past. Since I'm
                 posting on a forum that almost exclusively read by
                 Californians, I thought it fine to invoke the name of a
                 California democrat famous for the things Keiller attacks
                 Bush for.
                 \_ So you think the playground mentality justifies something?
                    "But he did it first!" does not qualify as a moral stance.
                    \_ Umm... no.  I'm not saying that what I think the
                       Republicans are doing is GOOD.  I'm just saying
                       it's funny to watch the pot call the kettle black.
           \_ Fear-mongers?  When were the Dems the fear-mongers?
              \_ Certainly my whole life.  "Hole in the Ozone! Global
                 Warming! Return of Jim Crow Laws! Vouchers cause racism!
                 etc. etc."
                 \_ Yeah that's the same as preemptive invasion. Die painfully.
2004/8/31 [Consumer/Audio] UID:33241 Activity:high
8/30    My friend just ripped a bunch of CDs with iTunes to AAC format.
        Are those files going to be DRM-encumbered like the ITMS stuff?
        \_ no
        what are the limitations currently- 5 computers?  7?  What about
        her ipod?
        \_ Thanks for the answer, now part II: is AAC playable by players other
           than the ipod?  It's just an MPEG standard with optional Apple DRM on
        \_ Thanks for the answer, now part II: is AAC playable by players
           other than the ipod?  It's just an MPEG standard with optional
           Apple DRM on
           top, right?
                \_ at the moment, only the ipod plays AAC.  i bet the HP branded
                   ipod plays AAC too.  i bet the ipod will not be the
                   only AAC capable player for long, witness Real
                \_ at the moment, only the ipod plays AAC.  i bet the HP
                   branded ipod plays AAC too.  i bet the ipod will not
                   be the only AAC capable player for long, witness Real
                   offering a software program that plays AAC on your
                   \_ AAC is a different encoding than MP3; it's not just
                      the DRM.  The HP iPod is just the Apple iPod in an
                      HP box.  -meyers
                      \_ But it still is an MPEG standard format. Anyway AAC
                         isn't that big a deal right now. Some folks did a
                         double-blind listening test indicating that at 128kb,
                         the LAME MP3 encoder essentially tied with AAC, while
                         both were beaten by a Vorbis encoder. Vorbis is
                         supported by several players and also competes well at
                         high bitrates. I do expect AAC to get wider support
                         and better encoders over time.
                         \_ AAC is a mpeg standard however dolby requires
                            royalties that most arent willing to pay. The
                            version that apple uses dumps its own DRM on
                            top of it. Apple DRM != Real DRM. You may very
                            well see a player sometime soon that plays
                            Real AAC files while not playing Apple AAC from
                            ITMS because Apple won't license out their DRM
                            to anyone.
                            \_ Just to be clear, the DRM only applies to
                               files from the iTunes Music Store. If you
                               rip a CD of your own to AAC using iTunes,
                               you get a regular MPEG-4 file with just an
                               audio track.
2004/8/31 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:33242 Activity:kinda low
8/30    All right, this URL convinces me that a decision by Republican mayor
        Bloomberg to refuse a permit for a Central Park demonstration can
        be reasonably argued to not have anything to do with toeing the
        party line: -liberal
        \_ yes. also this article written by Henry Stern (former NYC parks
        \_ Hm, am slightly more convinced.  OTOH, he expects 50,000 New Yorkers
           to enjoy the place on a given afternoon, but he's not worried about
           them destroying the green?  I think we need a usability assessment.
2004/8/31 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:33243 Activity:kinda low
8/30    All right, I googled for the "$8 million" to re-sod Central Park,
        but I didn't find anything.  Please help.
        \_ jesus fucking christ, youy're a dumbass. second link from google:
           They say 18 million.  whatever.
           \_ What's your problem?  I asked nicely.
              \_ ok, sorry.  nothing personal, i just hate everyone.
        \_ 100,000 protestors... 100,000 America-hating liberals, all in one
           convenient location, in a major landmark of a city known to be a
           terrorist target. What a waste of opportunity!
           \_ This joke telegraphed itself about a mile ahead. I was
              waiting looking at my watch for this sad mule to finally
              pull into the freaking station and ring the bell, already. --acs
              \_ Sorry. Wasn't feeling very sassy today.
2004/8/31-9/1 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:33244 Activity:nil
8/31    I'm writing a JNI application through the invocation interface.
        (C calling Java through the JNI.)  When I'm done with it, I would
        like the JVM to be destroyed, and before destruction, I want a
        static method (unload) to be called on each class once for each
        class.  Does anyone know how to do this?
        \_ Been a while, but look up :
           JNI DetachCurrent-Thread() and DestroyJavaVM()
           in the JNI docs. At least that's what the java executable
           wrapper does when it exits. As for calling static destroy
           methods in the classes, I believe you might have to do that
2004/8/31 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Reference/History/WW2] UID:33245 Activity:high
8/31    Battlefield Vietnam is AWSOME! I just downloaded the WW2 mod from
        EA and now I can play some of the BF1942 maps. It is really really
        nice. It's like buy 2 games for the price of 1, with a LOT of
        \_ You did not deserve to download that mod and are unfit to play
           multiplayer. -Battlefield Vietnam Veterans for Truth
           \_ Okay that was pretty funny.
        \_ the Napalm on the F4-- totally useless
           the mortars-- hard to aim, the range of harm is limited. USELESS
           heat seeking missiles-- totally cool
        \_ Do you get a purple heart for suffering 1 point of damage from
           your own grenade you threw when you thought someone was there,
           but actually no one was shooting at you?
           \_ Use your name, coward, so I can mug you and make an imprint
              of my dad's purple heart in your forehead with a bat.
              \_ tough guy!  reminds me of being 13 on a 300 baud modem when
                 everyone was telling their 'enemies' to show at some park but
                 no one ever did.
                 \_ actually when I was 15 and I had a fast 1200 baud
                   modem I tricked one of my enemies into showing up
                   at a restaurant (he stole my girlfriend so I made
                   up a fake girl account on a BBS that he visited
                   frequently) and he got really pissed that he waited
                   3 hours and asked me why I didn't show up and I
                   just wrote back "fuck off you pervert." That'll
                   show him not to steal other people's gf. Ah those were
                   the days
                   \_ You think you won that exchange? He waited three
                      hours in a restaurant and fucked your girl. Can
                      I get that special as well please? To go. Thanks.
                      \_ Women are property!  There's a strong conservative
           \_ No, but you do get a silver star for valor with a "v" for valor
              on it which has never been issued.
        \_ So how many [DEM] JOhn_KErry players have you seen online?
           Do they run away after the first shot?
           \_ They kill [REP] and [VC] with their bare hands.
           \_ For some reason [REP] John_McCain always gets shot in the back by
              his clanmates.
              \_ You guys are awesome. This totally made my day.
2004/8/31 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33246 Activity:high
8/31    Bush is even in the polls with Kerry up double digits in CA, NY, and
        IL.  I am so happy that I am taking my small group at work out to
           \_ Oh boy, can we have an electoral college flamewar? Because we
              haven't had one of those in at least a couple of days.
        a pre-election victory lunch.
        \_ this is the second of these posts you've made in as many days.
           I still can't figure out which guy you're certain is going to win.
           Could you just tell us, for those of us to slow to follow the
           x >>>>>> x inequality?
           \_ If Kerry is up (say) 15% in 3 states that make up 25% of the
              US population, then he's on the average down 4% everywhere
              else.  Of course, Bush is up by a lot in Texas and Georgia,
              so that makes up for it somewhat.  But overall he's still
              ahead.  Vote Kerry, baby!
              \_ god fucking dammit!  will you please stop ranting about
                 statistics and tell us who you think is going to win?
                 I still haven't figured it out.
                 \_ Are you a protected minority?
        \_ Wow, you are very confident.  Gore won IL, CA, and NY too.
           Ever heard of the Electoral College?
           \_ Electrical college?
           \_ Wow you are stupid.
           \_ Oh boy, can we have an electoral college flamewar? Because we
              haven't had one of those in at least a couple of days.
        \_ I just bought an 4.8is X5.  If Bush wins and extends the large
           truck depreciation for another year, I am buying an H1 next year.
           \_ Bling, motherfucker, bling!
              \_ Tax deductions, baby!
                 \_ MARS, BITCH!
                    \_ They can we declare Martian Law?
2004/8/31 [Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:33247 Activity:nil
8/31    Co-sponsor of the Federal Marriage Amendment is forced to resign after
        allegations surface that he
        \_ He just wanted a little federal legislation to help him stay in the
           \_ Feel that conservative compassion!
        \_ "In 2000, the Virginian-Pilot said of Schrock that he favored ending
            the Clinton administration's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy on
            gays in the military. He supported asking enlistees whether they
            have had homosexual experiences in an effort to try to keep gays
            from serving.i"
           "You're in the showers with them, you're in the bunk room with them,
            you're in staterooms with them," Schrock told the Virginian-Pilot.
           "You just hope no harm would come by folks who are of that
            persuasion It's a discipline thing."
        \_ Since when are allegations worth anything?  How would you respond if
           Drudge made the allegations?
           \_ Well, since he dropped out of the race over some allegations
              made on a gay activist website, I'd say these allegations
              probably hold water.
        \_ What if he genuinely thinks being gay is wrong (e.g. he thinks it's
           a sickness from which he suffers)?  Then he is being consistent when
           he supported anti-gay decisions.  A drug addict can think that drug
           is bad, and can support rehabilitation programs, for example.
           \_ It may be logically consistant, but it certainly is ironic and
              adds to some people's (myself included) suspicion that a lot of
              anti-gay political posturing is really about self-loathing
           \_ I'm sure the feeling is mutual.
              conservatives in the closet.
2004/8/31 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:33248 Activity:kinda low
8/31    Squish ilyas! Squish Tom Holub!
        \_ eeeeeww.  I don't want to be in the same thread as THAT GUY.
           Thanks a lot!  -- ilyas
           \_ I'm sure the feeling is mutual.
              \_ Tom can speak for himself.
        \_ Speaking of squishing, who's running the idiotic script that force
           justifies the motd to 79 character width?
           \_ Also, who's been converting tabs to spaces?
            \_ BOTH of these are annoying, and they're in clear violation of
               CSUA bylaws and are squishable offense if caught.
        \_ Die squisherung ist fur die hozering und flahmering!
        \_ Squish Bush!
2004/8/31 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33249 Activity:nil
8/31    GOP Convention summary:
        9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11!
        9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11!
        9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11!
        9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11!
        \_ you forgot "Michael Moore is fat"
        \_ don't forget "THANK GOD FOR GEORGE BUSH".  i puke.
        \_ They are reveling in our enemy's victory.  Why do they hate
           \_ "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.
              They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and
              our people, and neither do we."
              \_ To those who would attack America, I say Bring It On!
        \_ "I don't think you can win it (war on terror)." -- GWB
           \_ "We meet today in a time of war for our country, a war (i.e.,
              the war on terror) we did not start yet one that we will win."
              First quote is from Aug. 28th.  Second quote is from Aug 31st.
              Talk about a FLIP-FLOP!
                \_ He did not flip flop.  The Iraq war was a war for oil.
                   So, he's still right.
                   \_ Um, what?
2004/8/31 [Health/Skin] UID:33250 Activity:moderate
8/30    Why would taking antibiotics help with acne? I mean, acne is
        just oil gland popping out right?               -acne guy
        \_ It's a sebaceus gland that gets clogged.  I think bacteria help to
           clog them.
           \_ Acne is a really bad reason to over-medicate with antibiotics.
              In general, antibiotics should be avoided unless absolutely
              neccessary, as their overuse decreases their effectiveness
              over time.
              \_ Agreed.  I think anti-bacterial soap should be banned from
                 general use.
                 \_ yeah, ban Clorine as well because it's anti-bacterial
                    \_ it's much more than anti-bacterial, it's anti-microbial.
                       \_ What's the difference?
                 \_ Heh.  Just in case you're not being deliberately obtuse,
                    anti-bacterial soap has nothing to do with antibiotics.
                    Are you familiar with the concepts of natural selection
                    and the process by which bacteria become resistant to
                    \_ Hmm, last I checked, anti-bacterial soap contains legal
                       amounts of antibiotics.
                       \_ I thought most antibacterial soaps used triclosan
                          as their active ingredient.
                          \_ Ah, sorry!  I was wrong!  But overuse of
                             antibacterial agents like triclosan also causes
                             "superbugs", just like overuse of antibiotics.
                             \_ "some scientists believe."
                                \_ What are you, the new york post?  If you keep
                                   exposing bacteria to nasty stuff they'll
                                   eventually work out a way to live with it.
                                   Or is it that you believe God wouldn't allow
                                   such a thing to happen?
                                   \_ obviously, you're wrong.  bacteria can't
                                      live in boiling water or alcohol or
                                      bleach, despite thousands of years of
                                      using this "nasty stuff" to kill
                                      \_ Bleach has been around for thousands
                                         of years?
                                      \_ There is a huge qualitative difference
                                         between, say, bleach, and an
                                         antibiotic.  Antibiotic-resistant
                                         strains of bacteria are rampant
                                         due to overuse of antibiotics.  Just
                                         wait and see how much fun we'll have
                                         when an antibiotic resistant
                                         chlamydia organism gets out into the
                                         \_ triclosan is not an antibiotic.
                                            \_ True, but it is also not bleach.
                                               Triclosan is weak enough that it
                                               is safe enough for humans.  You
                                               really don't want to be dousing
                                               your hands in bleach every time
                                               you use the bathroom do you?
                                               Okay, I've met some OCD victims
                                               that might try it, but really.
                                               See the post just below for more
                                               \_ crab fisherman use clorox
                                                  to clean their wounds.
                                                  that's because most
                                                  crab fisherman are insane.
                                      \_ Anything that kills 100% of bacteria
                                         will never cause resistance in them.
                                         If you repeated expose them to
                                         lowed amounts that only kill some
                                         (very hot water, diluted bleach or
                                         alcohol) you will eventually build up
                                         a resistance which will make it harder
                                         to kill as many with how water or
                                         dilute bleach or whatever, so you will
                                         have to increase the concentration or
                                         temperature or duration of exposure._
2004/8/31-9/1 [Computer/HW] UID:33251 Activity:low
8/31    Any recommendation for a shop to buy 2U servers from in the east bay
        (oakland,emeryville,berkeley,albany - I want to buy local)?
        \_ what speed?  I have some dual 750/1 gigahertz 1U 2U
           i will sell you cheap, money back guarantee! - danh
           \_ Will you take a check?
2004/8/31-9/1 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:33252 Activity:nil
8/31    IIRC, Oracle requires a "where" statement to make updates.  Is there
        anyway I can make mysql require the same thing?  Developers keep
        doing ' update TABLE set column="newvalue" '.  When they don't mean
        it.  It is easy enough to type "where 1=1" if you really do mean it.
        I'm hoping this is a config i can change, maybe? possible? thanks.
2004/8/31 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33253 Activity:high
8/31    Michael Moore learns not to rant and plays it cool at GOP Convention.
        His column is actually well written, IMO. (Washington Post) (official USA Today column)
        \_ It's not bad.  Aside from the bad statistics he uses to justify
           him is own far-left views, he's right.  Most republicans aren't
           far right.  What he's missing is that not being far right
           doesn't make them far left either.
           \_ Yes, you're so clever. I'm sure Michael Moore doesn't
              understand false dichotomies. Go play in the street.
              \_ This response was needlessly agressive, perhaps to make
                 up for the fact that it doesn't actually say anything.
                 Anyway, yes, I assume Moore knows what a false dichotomy
                 is.  However, understanding it doesn't mmake you immune
                 to using them.  This RINO concept in this column is
                 basically one big false dichotomy.
                 \_ I'm not the "you're so clever" guy, but Moore is just
                    saying there are the small-government Republicans with more
                    liberal views on social policy (Ah-nold), and there are the
                    Republicans who are conservative in the social policy
                    sense.  Moore is saying this latter group is not a
                    reflection of America.
                    \_ Fair enough.  Although Moore also annoyed me with his
                       useless straw-man arguments.
                       \_ ... which were?  Granted Moore didn't write anything
                          about how Dubya and friends have a clear, precise,
                        \_ i guess you're right, "shoot them all" is clear,
                           and consistent... not too precise though
                          and consistent policy on terrror, whereas Kerry and
                          friends do not.  Is that what you're annoyed about?
                          \_ An example "I asked whether women should have
                             equal rights, including the same pay as
                             men." Name a promient republican who would say
                             no to this.  I can't think of any. Do you
                             think Rice makes less than Powell?
                             \_ ugh, Michael Moore.  Can we just stop talking
                                about this guy?  How about this - we'll stop
                                talking about Moore and you guys stop talking
                                about Hannity, O'Reilly, and Coulter. --liberal
                                \_ w00t!  Deal!  Although it should really
                                   go the other way.  I'll stop talking
                                   about Moore, and you stop talkint about
                                   how stupid O'Reilly, Coulter, etc. are.
                             \_ Moore is talking about the religious right and
                                the associated traditional family structure.
                                Not a straw man.  But yeah, I do think it's a
                                stretch -- he would make a stronger case just
                                to stay with pro-lifers.
                                \_ It IS a straw man.  Being pro-family is
                                   not pro-opressing women. Saying women
                                   should take care of the babies they have
                                   is not the same as saying women who work
                                   shouldn't get a paycheck. That's just
                                   dumb, and I've NEVER heard anyone even
                                   suggest it.  Even the Bible is against
                                   \_ No, I say Moore makes a weak argument,
                                      but I still say it's not a straw man.
                                      What's a straw man?  "Name a prominent
                                      republican who would say [they favor
                                      policies that would create a situation
                                      where women earn 0.75 cents to the
                                      dollar]."  Even if a prominent Republican
                                      did favor this, they would never say so.
                                      What's a straw man?  "saying women who
                                      work shouldn't get a paycheck".  No one
                                      says that or thinks that, period.
                                      Moore:  weak, completely unsupported
                                              argument on women's pay.
                                      You:  straw-man king.
                                      \_ Sheesh. Sorry for the hyperbole.
                                         No one says or thinks women
                                         should get paid less for equal
                                         work either.
                                   \_ The Bible says that women should be
                                      obedient to their husbands and their
                                      fathers, not that they should have
                                      equal rights.
                                      \_ The Bible also says, in the same
                                         way, that children should honor
                                         their parents.  Saying that means
                                         women should have equal rights is
                                         a mis-interpretation of scripture.
           \_ You're either with us or against us!
        \_ MM'08!
        \_ Funny how he says, "we New Yorkers" when he's always tried to play
           up his whole everyman Flint, MI angle in the past.
           \_ Meh.  He grew up there, worked in the SFBA for a time, and is now
              a New Yorker.  He's probably qualified to talk casually about any
              of those places.
              \_ What?  He moved?? FLIP FLOP!!!
2004/8/31 [Uncategorized] UID:33254 Activity:high
8/31    have you googled the new Sex On Tuesdays columnist?
        \_ Should I have?
        \_ shut the fuck up, cmlee
        \_ no, but i fingered her. W00T!
           \_ You got farther than I did: finger: connect: Connection refused
2004/8/31-9/1 [Health/Eyes] UID:33255 Activity:high
8/31    Dear hard contact lense experts: I'm wearing my first pair
        now (I have to wear them because of problems w/denegerative
        cornea) and they're a bitch to wear. Did you have to build
        up tolerance and how long did it take you before you can
        wear them comfortably the entire day? ok thx
        \_ If you are suffering from keratoconus, there are alternative
           treatments to both stop and reverse the condition. I had a
           rather successful procedure done on my own right eye and I
           do not need to wear hard contacts. -williamc
                \_ surgeon/clinic/hospital? THANK YOU.
                   \_Dr. Boxer-Wachler is my opthanologist. Please email
                     me or do a websearch for more details. The procedure
                     is somewhat involved and rather expensive. However,
                     your insurance will cover at least a portion of it.
                     Keep in mind, the SOONER that you do this the less
                     progressive your keratoconous becomes and the better
                     your results will be.
                \_ what treatment did you have (the name)? Thanks
                   \_ I had C3R and Intacts. I had the option of PRK
                      but it is highly dangerous for keratoconus because
                      it could cause further degeneration. You can find
                      out about it more on the web. AFAIK the physician
                      is the only one that does this (keratoconus is a very
                      rare disease, perhaps 150,000 cases in the US). -williamc
        \_ The first time I put them on, my eyes were tearing the whole
           time.  It took me about a week or two before I could
           wear them for the whole day.
        \_ i tried to wear hard lenses, but they were just too
           uncomfortable - the lenses would bounce around every time i
           blinked. i gave up after a while and went back to glasses.
        \_ like the above poster said, it takes a week or so to get used to
           them. the only times they bother me now is when i get eyelashes
           in between, which happens surprisingly often. oh, and i've
           accidentally slept with them on overnite... no adverse effects,
           unlike the time i slept with soft contacts, and the world was a
           blur the next morning.
2004/8/31 [Recreation/Humor] UID:33256 Activity:nil
8/31    Today's Ted Rall comic is probably funny only for liberals:
        \_ Oh, as opposed to all his other comics which are normally funny
           for nobody?
           \_ You're right, they're usually more satirical than funny.
              The football player being an "idiot" was not funny.
              \_ I found it quite amusing.
2004/8/31 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33257 Activity:high
        Vietnam vet buries 20-year-old only son who died in Iraq.  Last para:
        "I shouldn't be burying him, he should be burying me," he said in a
        sometimes tearful interview. "The war is not worth it now. We need to
        get the hell out of there."
        \_ Someone's son got killed in the Revolutionary War also. I guess
                 \_ Correct?  Heh.  Why don't we conflate the Iraq misadventure
                    with WWII and WWI while we're at it?  Why not the Civil War
                    as well?  Or how about Vietnam?  Oops, we can't compare it
                    to that, that wasn't glorious enough.
           that should never have been fought either.
           \_ You're not as intelligent or as funny as you think you are.
              Please die now, compassionless fool.
              \_ Don't get angry just because I'm correct.
                 \_ No, but I'll be annoyed by your paranoia and your willful
                    lack of reading comprehension.
           \_ "God Bless Our Gracious Queen ......"
           \_ You're comparing the Iraq war to the Revolutionary War?
              \_ Uh, no.
                 \_ Uh, yes.
                    \_ Uh, no.
                       \_ Uh, yes.
                          \_ Stop having sex in the public, guys!
                       \_ You guys are brilliant.
                       \_ Tastes Great!
                          \_ Less Filling!
           \_ This is where he trots out some old history book where there
              is a father with a son who died for the Americans, and the
              father says, "We should never have fought against the Brits!
              It's not worth it!"
              \_ Halliburton shareholders think the war was worth it
                 \_ really?
                    \_ Halliburton shareholders don't like investigations.
        \_ Okay, I'll spell it out for you idiots. OP posts a quote where some
           guy said we should pull out because his son got killed. I am merely
           pointing out that one person's personal tragedy isn't a valid
           reason to make a decision like that. To illustrate why, I apply the
           exact same reasoning to a different war- one that is generally
           regarded as being one that should have been fought. Nowhere am I
           even hinting that Iraq == Revolutionary War. I'm not even implying
           that I even support the Iraq War. I could have instead said
           something like, "someone's son died in a car accident yesterday
           also, I guess we should ban cars." How the fuck did you people even
           get into Cal? Are the admissions standards that low now?
           \_ Awww, nobody takes you seriously so naturally we're all dummies.
              Poor baby.  Are you gonna cry now?
              \_ No, only liberals are crybabies.
                 \_ That's right -- cry, baby, cry.
                    \_ crying with laughter...
           \_ Your presence here would seem to imply a resounding, "yes!"
           \_ Right, except that 30,000 americans die per year from cars.
              I'll take Bush's infinite war on whatever over the present
              war on pedestrians any day.  Right now our war with detroit
              is more costly in american lives than the Vietnam war was at
              its peak.
              \_ US out of Detroit! Why do they hate America so much?
              \_ actually it's closer to 50K.  -tom
           \_ Don't forget the part about Iraq not having WMDs.
              (It wasn't part of the quote, but it was assumed you knew that
              Iraq didn't have WMDs, and it was our main reason for going,
              and is probably what the father was thinking when he said
              the war isn't worth it.)
              Let's have some hypotheticals.
              Father:  My son died to protect America.  Saddam had chemical/bio
              weapons and is working with al Qaeda, and he was close to having
              Father:  My son died to remove Saddam, to prevent him from
              torturing his people and thumbing his nose at the world, and to
              build a democracy in Iraq.  We got Saddam, but I have no idea
              when we can get out of Iraq, and most other countries aren't
              helping us because we never had the smoking gun on WMDs.  I don't
              think this is worth my son's life.
              Many were annoyed at your post because you ignore obvious
              realities to bolster your own conclusion.
              \_ And my conclusion was what?
                 \_ "Someone's son got killed in the Revolutionary War also.
                     I guess that should never have been fought either."
2004/8/31 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:33258 Activity:nil
8/31    Will the world view the U.S. differently if the US stops
        supporting Israel?
        \_ The U.S. doesn't really support Israel now.
           \_ Only to the tune of $4B+ a year.
              \_ not really.
                 \_ Yes, really:
                    $2.7B in aid plus $10B in loan guarantees in 2003.
                    Maybe not exactly $4B, but somewhere around that
                    every year for the last 30 or so.
                    \_ no, not exactly.  you're wrong.
                       \_ Your debate skills could use some work.
                          \_ you're just saying that because you
                             control the media.
        \_ Yes.  Now please don't feed the trolls.
        \_ The terrarists will!! -lame troll #2
2004/8/31 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33259 Activity:nil
8/31    Frances ready to strike US! []
        \_ Don't you mean Freedom?
2004/8/31 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Reference/Military] UID:33260 Activity:very high
        Aimbot, autoshoot, wallhack, all here. Useful if you play games.
        \_ A non-trivial intersection between motd posters and the CS
           crowd would make all too much sense...  with all of them
           'w00t' and 'omg you got pwned' crap I keep seeing here. -- ilyas
           'w00t' and 'omg you got pwned' things I keep seeing here. -- ilyas
           \_ Translation:  ilyas is talking down 2 all u l00z3rS!!1!
           \_ n00b
           \_ Yeah, I hear there are a few gun nuts on motd.
              \_ What's a gun nut?  Someone who believes owning a handgun is
                 a good idea?  -- ilyas
                 \_ you can own 20 guns and not be a gun nut.  you can hunt
                    and target shoot and not be a gun nut.  You can have a
                    gun you carry at all times for protection and not be a
                    gun nut.  A gun nut is someone who *believes* in
                    gun ownership as some sort of philosophical position,
                    not just because they want to kill deer, protect
                    themselves or practice their eye-hand coordination.
                    That's a gun nut.
                    \_ Wow, nicely summed up.
                    \_ I don't understand this summary.  Are the asterisks
                       somehow significant?  I believe in life, liberty, etc.
                       Does that make me a life nut or a liberty nut?  Of course
                       I believe in all the rights I think I have.  What you
                       are saying is coming across as 'anyone who tries to
                       defend a position I don't agree with is a nut.'  Well,
                       that's great, we found the nut in the conversation, and
                       it ain't me.  Or maybe you just object to people trying
                       to come up with principled justifications for what
                       they believe in, and rather the world was just a giant
                       meaningless compromise between competing interest
                       groups.  That's not nutty, that's sad and depressing.
                         -- ilyas
                \_ alan keyes is a "gun nut"
        \_ Anyone who uses cheats for an online game doesn't deserve to live.
           \_ "CAMELOT!" "It's only a model..." "Shh!"
2004/8/31 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:33261 Activity:nil
8/31    From our balanced and bias-free friends at the NYT:
        "Then comes the Governator, a man who is used to having movie-goers
        shell out $8 to see him on the silver screen and who this time is
        having various corporate interests, including the pharmaceutical, oil
        and entertainment industries, shell out $350,000 to underwrite his
        visit to New York on his private jet.

        "For many, Arnold Schwarzenegger is the embodiment of the American
        Dream, and that will be his subject tonight. His immigrant story of
        the self-made superstar who marries a princess, becomes governor of
        most populous state in the country and owner of seven Hummers (though
        he has sold four of them) is a compelling one and will serve as the
        centerpiece of his discussion of the Republican Party's diversity."
        \_ Hey dude, change the csuamotd password back? thx.
        \_ Um, what's your problem with this passage? If anything its naked
           Arnold-worship.  "embodiment of the American Dream" indeed.  And
           is this from the op-ed page or a news analysis, or is this
           \_ You think smearing him with corporate interest ties without a
              shred of evidence is worship?  Sorry but you're just plain
              \_ Don't forget the 7 Hummbers (though he has sold 4 of them).
                 \_ What's the difference between 1 Hummer and 7 Hummers?  7
                    Hummers don't guzzle any more gas than 1 Hummer if he can
                    only drive one at a time.  BTW does he use any of his
                    Hummers for day-to-day commute?
                    \_ I believe this is called sarcasm.  Yes, I am sure
                       of it.
                       \_ There are many many people in America who admire
                          someone who owns 7 Hummers. Maybe even most. I
                          think you have been in Berkeley too long.
                          \_ No, he doesn't own 7 Hummers.  The quote reminded
                             us that he sold 4 of them, remember?  Yes, this
                             is sarcastic too.
              \_ Again, is this an op-ed?
                 \_ No, this is the lead news item on -!op
                 \_ Front page of, "Convention Briefing".
              \_ Googling for schwarzenegger $350,000 gives this:
                 "... and private donors are kicking in more than $350,000 to
                 pick up the tab, the governor's office said Wednesday.
                 ... The governor's office did release a list of firms ..."
                 (found at end of article)
                 BTW, the NY Times today is clearly left-wing, and more stupid
                 than the other competing media outlets, IMO, although they
                 do get some things right sometimes (yes that'svague). -liberal
                 \_ I don't think anyone questions if the quote was factually
                    correct.  One wonders if the quote reflects a bias on
                    Schwartzenegger (sp?) that may or may not be appropriate
                    in a news piece.
                    \_ I am responding to the "without a shred of evidence"
                       guy -- there is your guy who "questions if the quote
                       was factually correct".  (Yes, the evidence was in
              and not referenced in the article
                       - they're stupid like I said.)
                       In any case, the title of the article itself indicates
                       clear bias:  "For G.O.P., Another Night of Moderation
                       Lies Ahead".  That sounds like it was written by a CSUA
                       liberal.  The NY Times has stopped pretending and is
                       clearly left and anti-Bush. -liberal
                       \_ They are stupid becuase they didn't reference a
                          true statement? Bizarre reasoning.
                          \_ You provide support for true statements when they
                             are not well-known facts, especially when
                             controversial. -liberal
                 \_ Hahahah "the NYT today is clearly left-wing". Thanks for
                    laugh. When is the last time they advocated for the
                    proletariat to seize contorl of the means of production?
                    The NYT is a major corporation with billions of dollars
                    of shareholder value. At best they are slightly left
                    of center, more moderate than anything else.
                    \_ Perhaps one might substitute "left-wing" with "pro-
                       \_ and "anti-Bush"
                \_ Smearing him??? Do you think that this is not true?
                   \_ Again, no one questions the truth of the quote.  The
                      question is merely if sarcasm behind the quote is
                      appropriate for a news piece.
                      \_ I don't read it as sarcasm. You are being too touchy.

                         \_ We disagree then.  Perhaps you are ideologically
                            inclined to give NYT the benefit of the doubt.
                            \_ I accept that as a possibility, though I
                               generally like Schwartzenegger.
                               \_ Oddly enough, I find him generally annoying,
                                  though I am glad he told the Bay Area to
                                  deal with the bridge retrofit/replacement
                                  cost overruns without state help.
                      \_ There's a guy who wrote "smearing him with corporate
                         interest ties without a shred of evidence".  It sounds
                         like he questioned the truth of the special-interests
                         \_ Mea Culpa.  "No one reasonable..."
            \_ Why does it matter if the quote was from op-ed, analysis, or
               front-page if it was fair and balanced?
                \_ why do we care?  BORING.  fox news would at least
                   imply a Democrat had radioactive testicles.
2004/8/31 [Health/Women] UID:33262 Activity:high
8/31    Ignoring what Moore says, the contemporary example for
        unequal pay for the same work between men and women is Wal-Mart.
        "Sworn declarations [in the class-action lawsuit]... among them:
        ... Managers repeatedly informed women employees that men 'need to be
        paid more than women because they have families to support.'
        ... because 'men are here to make a career and women aren't. Retail is
        for housewives who just need to earn extra money.'"
        (Moore just ties the behavior of Wal-Mart to the GOP, a link which he
        doesn't adequately support.)
        \_ The link is obvious.  They are the party pushing for deregulation,
           gutting the SEC's audit team, trying to gut Tort law, etc etc etc.
           The dems push equal pay policy quietly, but at least it's on their
           \_ I don't know: you make some good points on GOP favoring corporate
              profits over regulation, but you still haven't persuaded me. -op
              \_ This wouldn't even really be about profits.  This is about
                 stripping away regulations and litigative powers.  These are
                 the only tools the people, through the government, hold to
                 keep corporations in check.  The GOP want them gone.
                 The equal pay for equal work people think the issue should be
                 on the same level of concern as environmental pollution.  The
                 GOP would love to see both concerns vanish.
        \_ There's lies, damn lies, and statistics:
           The New York Times reported on Feb. 16, 2003 that a study
           commissioned by the plaintiffs. lawyers and released that month by
           Richard Drogin, emeritus statistics professor at California State
           University, Hayward, "found that full-time women hourly employees
           working at least 45 weeks at Wal-Mart made abut $1,150 less per year
           than men in similar jobs, a 6.2% gap. Women store managers, he
           found, made an average of $89,280 a year, $16,400 less than men."

           No mention of methodology.  I'm always suspicious of these kind of
           studies because they often do not look for other correlations that
           might explain the data.
           \_ It has enough merit to stand up in court.
              \_ Which means squat about its methodological correctness.
                 \_ and of course you have statistics which show that women
                    are paid fairly at walmart...
2004/8/31 [Uncategorized] UID:33263 Activity:high
8/31    Warning: full frontal male nudity on The Onion.
        \_ Does anyone read The Onion anymore?
2004/8/31-9/1 [Computer/SW/Apps] UID:33264 Activity:nil
8/31    How can I set the Page Setting to "Landscape" for all the
        worksheets of an excel file?
2004/8/31 [Recreation/Dating] UID:33265 Activity:nil
        Keyes said: "The essence of ... family life remains procreation. If we
        embrace homosexuality as a proper basis for marriage, we are saying
        that it's possible to have a marriage state that in principal excludes
        procreation and is based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism."
        Asked whether that meant Mary Cheney "is a selfish hedonist," Keyes
        said: "That goes by definition. Of course she is."
        I'm on a roll today! -troll
2019/02/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:31 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>