8/30    Looking at the latest http://pollingreport.com numbers, our boy's back!
        \_ huh? how are those polling numbers any different than we've seen
           for the last couple months?  What are you talking about?
        \_ Wow.  A tie!  You mean it hasn't been tied before?  Horrors!
           \_ The polling looked a lot bleaker for bush even around the
              beginning of the month.
              \_ Anyone who thinks this election isn't going to come down to
                 the wire is smoking some serious drugs. [restored]
                 \_ Anyone who thinks it's better to go into the debates 5
                    points down rather than even is also smoking some serious
                    drugs.
                    \_ who's 5 points down?  Are we talking about the same
                       polls?  some polls have bush ahead by margin that's
                       in the noise, and some have kerry ahead by a margin
                       that's in the noise.  just what the fuck are you
                       talking about?
                       \_ He's on crack or he's only been reading the
                          questionable polls like Zogby or Rasmussen.
                          Good polls like Fox or Gallup have consistently shown
                          a dead heat for quite awhile.
                          \_ Time with leaners 8/5 has Bush down for 7.  Even
                             Fox 8/4 has Bush down for 5.  NPR 8/24, Bush -5.
                             Democracy Corps 8/5, Bush -7.  Zogby 8/14, Bush
                             -7.
                             \_ Are those likely or registered numbers?  A lot
                                of people get confused and compare the two
                                sets.
        \_ Our?

8/30    Somebody PLEASE catch ilyas doing something illegal so that we can
        squish him. Thank you very much.
           \_ Makes sense.  The motd is by and large Republican-landia, with
              tom as the harmless token liberal that everyone feels comfortable
              ridiculing.
              \_ If you keep saying something, it will make it true!
              \_ It is?  That's why debate rages back and forth?  Anywhere a
                 Republican dares speak up is Republican-landia?  Whatever
                 that means.  Tom is hardly the only libby showing on the motd.
                 In fact, he posts very little political material compared to
                 several others.
                 \_ I love how Republicans have borrowed victim-speak from the
                    left.  "I'm a minority!  Pay attention to me!"
                    \_ I love how you haven't learned to read.  No where did I
                       claim victimhood or minority status.  That's a strawman
                       argument.  I claimed that the motd is not "Republican-
                       landia" and that "the debate rages back and forth" and
                       that Tom is not the only libby here.  Should I repeat
                       it for you a third time, s-l-o-w-l-y?
        \_ BAIT ILYAS!
           \_ FHRITE!
        \_ Illegal?  You mean against policy?  And then you'll get him
           squished without warning or recourse because he says things in a
           calm manner that you can't refute?  I'm with ya brother!  No free
           speech for fascists!
        \_ he already admitted to nuking the motd and using scripts to
           mudge contents. The problem is not ilyas but that the current
           politburo is lazy and doesn't seem to care about motd as much
           as the old administration (jon, tom, etc)
           \_ I love it.  Now people make up stuff I may have said.  When did
              I use scripts?  When did I say I use scripts?  What planet are you
              from?  As for jon and tom... well jon admitted to being driven
              by personal considerations when getting people squished.
              Tom doesn't admit it, but then he doesn't admit it to himself
              probably.  What you are lamenting isn't that the current pburo
              doesn't care about the motd anymore, but that the current pburo
              aren't your personal friends who will squish accounts for
              personal reasons.  I have done nothing worse to the motd than
              many others who have their accounts.  You just want me gone
              because you don't like me, no other reason. -- ilyas
              \_ ilyas: 1
                 anti-ilyas moron: -3

8/30    A friend has recently moved from his signature pocketwatch to a
        cellphone (since it's not much bitter than the pocketwatch and doesn't
        require winding). I'd like to get him a pocketwatch-esque fob for his
        cellphone. Any suggestions?
        \_ Some cellphones have a little eyelet for putting on a string or the
           like.  If you friend's has this, you could put on a small keyring
           and then attatch any fobs you like to that.
           If there's no eyelet but there's a screw-off antenna, you could get
           a tiny metal washer and put that around the antenna-phone junction
           and then hang a fob off the washer, but that would be sub-optimal.

8/30    Can somebody suggest the most minimally annoying way to view Real
        format media in windows? Everything I've seen for the past few years
        from Real keeps installing crap silently and then popping up
        windows at random intervals.
        \_ I think VLC http://videolan.org plays everything
        \_ www.filesharingplace .. get the K-lite full pack
        \_ BBC's website has/used to have a specially-licensed adware free
           version... but they're moving to their own codec so it might not
           be around much longer.
        \_ Real Alternative.
           E.g., http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Real_Alternative.htm
           \_ Seconded.  Avoid codec packs unless you want to install a bunch
              of useless, old, and broken codecs.
        \_ Can someone explain why Real and their format still exist?  How do
           they make money?
           \_ On the other hand, Real is still the only company that bothers
              to produce a native Unix version of their player.
              \_ Yes and that makes them money?
                 \_ maybe, but only indirectly. They can say to potential
                    customers, "Look, our client software runs on more
                    platforms than MS media player or Quicktime". Notice
                    that http://webcast.berkeley.edu is using Real format, probably
                    for this very reason.
              \_ Apple makes a native Unix version of their player.
                 (If Linux counts as *nix, MacOS X counts too).
           \_ Their server-side software costs money and for the last
              few years they have been trying to reinvent themselves into
              a subscription-based media portal.
              \_ Thanks.
        \_ i don't know what planet you are from, but I've been using the
           newer Realplayer 10 for past 8-9 month, no adware at all.  version
           10 is much better than the older version.  Less cluttered, etc.Real
           alternative has issues with real and wmv streaming format.
           Otherwise, real alternative is very good.
        \_ mplayer?

8/30    Anyone watched the Olympic closing ceremony?  Those ten or so Chinese
        women dancers in short skirts playing Chinese musical instruments were
        very hot!
        \_ I concur.
        \_ pics?

8/30    I was in Oregon yesterday on the way to the airport.  Some old guy
        in a station wagon in front of me had written a note in Sharpie and
        taped it to his back window:
        "If you still support George W. Bush, you're still stupid."
        \_ In 2000 it wasn't so much a matter of stupid as gullible.  Now it's
           stupid.
           \_ I'm sorry but, Gore?  Come ON!
              \_ A smart man with no soul who would bring in a cabinet largely
                 from the Clinton administration, or an affable man with no
                 brain who would bring in a cabinet largely from the Reagan
                 administration.
                 \_ Cthulu/Yog Sotthoth '00!
                    \_ Why vote for a lesser evil?  Bush/Cheney '04!
              \_ I'm sorry but, Bush?  Come ON!

8/30    Bush on terror war: "I don't think you can win it."
        Perpetual war!  Yay!
        http://csua.org/u/8tl (AP via New York Daily News)
        \_ Much like the War on Drugs and the currently unfashionable War on
           Poverty.
           \_ Ah yes, the War on Drugs.  And what a successful war it has been,
              too!
        \_ Unfortunately Bush is doing as well on the war on terror as I am
           doing on the war on stupidity...
        \_ How about The War on Phonics?
           \_ They've misunderestimated me.

8/30    First it was a fish tank toilet bowl now this:
        http://mocoloco.com/archives/000586.php
        \_ I wonder if running hot water in the basin will affect the health
           of the fish?
        \_ Hmm, I anticipate a fish tank water bed.  Almost like having sex in
           the ocean.
           \_ i've seen a fishtank in the headboard of a bed. kinda cool.

8/30    A usable tablet pc:
        http://www.express.nec.co.jp/products/versapro/tablet_pc/index.html
        http://www.nec.co.jp/press/ja/0408/3001.html
        \_ You mean "tablet" PC?

8/30    So do the protests in New York prove that Aschroft is preventing our
        exercise of free speech?
        \_ No, it proves that Americans aren't that willing to give up our
           rights just because some demagogue tries to. AFAIK, all these
           protests are illegal (without a permit).
           protests are illegal (held without a permit).
           \_ I find the very idea that you need a permit from the government
              in order to protest the government a farcical abuse of the
              constitution.
              \_ where does it say it is ok for 100,000 people to show up and
                 stomp $8 million worth of grass and yell a lot?
                 \_ 100,000 people can show up because we have freedom of
                    assembly.  They can yell a lot because they have freedom of
                    speach.  And they can walk on the grass normally because
                    the city has to pay to maintain its parks.
                    \_ does "normal wear and tear" include willful destruction
                       of public property?  Just because one does not go out
                       saying "I'm going to destroy the grass" doesn't make it
                       "not willful"
                       \_ You're wrong.  Read up on 'intent'.  -POC
                          \_ Once you've been informed that your actions will
                             lead to some form of destruction and you proceed,
                             you have intent.
                             \_ Sophistry, my friend.  You're mixing up the
                                notion of personal accountability in an
                                inappropriate context.  It's not the indiviuals
                                that can be held accountable unless they're
                                actually breaking the law; walking in the park
                                isn't illegal.
                                \_ 2 people stomping in the park having
                                   been informed in advance they're going to do
                                   $1.60 in damage is not merely walking in the
                                   park.  So if the individuals are not
                                   accountable for the damage, then who is?
                                   Just have the tax payers of NYC cover it?
                                   \_ The damages belong to the people!
                                        -- socialist
                                   \_ Someone needs to figure out where
                                      "$8m in damage" came from.
                       \_ Really?  How do you figure?  "Willful" usually
                          \_ See above.  It's willful once you're no longer
                             ignorant of the consequences of your actions and
                             proceed to commit a destructive act anyway, even
                             if the destruction was not your primary motivation
                             for the act which caused the destruction of public
                             property.
                          implies intent.
                       \_ Actually, that's what willful means.  It's when you
                          want to destroy something, and then you destroy it.
                       \_ Reread that tortured triple negative again.
                       \_ Does... not... parse... head... exploding...
                          \_ Don't not leave the motd unread because your head
                             might not un-implode.
                 \_ Wow you mean my free speech rights are worth only $80?
                    Although you have nothing worthwhile to say, some of us
                    think free speech is worth more than that.
                    \_ Free speech does not include the right to destroy the
                       park.  Were all 100,000 coughing up $80 each to repair
                       the park afterwards?  The city has an obligation to not
                       waste citizen dollars on stupid shit.  There are plenty
                       of places to running around stupid without causing $8m
                       in damages.
                       \_ Someone needs to figure out where "$8m in damages"
                          came from.
                 \_ First Amendment.
                    \_ As if there are no limits to the 1st amendment?  The
                       Supreme Court has already ruled there are.  It is not
                       carte blanche to be an idiot.
                       \_ "Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the
                          freedom of speech, [...] or the right of the people
                          peaceably to assemble, and to petition the
                          government for a redress of grievances."
                          The people were attempting to exercise our
                          Constitutionally protected rights on public
                          property in a peaceful way. This is just another
                          example of the idiots in charge taking away more
                          of our rights. Worse, is people like you
                          apologizing for them.
                          \_ "peaceably to assemble".  Last I checked it didn't
                             cost the city $8m for a peaceful assembly.  There
                             are plenty of other places.  No one said they
                             can't gather.  Just not that many in that one
                             spot at that one time.  No one said they can't
                             block the fucking streets for hours at a time.
                             Just stay off the grass.  What's so hard to
                             understand about that?
                             \_ you're being obtuse; if they showed up in
                                the financial district and blocked roads,
                                they'd get their heads busted in.
                             \_ You are trying to claim that walking in the
                                park is a violent activity??? You have
                                totally gone around the bend.
                             \_ Someone needs to figure out where "$8m for
                                a peaceful assembly" came from (I assume this
                                is "$8m" more than the site that was settled
                                upon).
                 \_ You all may wish to read up on the legal concept of "prior
                    restraint."
              \_ You don't need a permit to protest.  You *do* need a permit to
                 march down the middle of the street and not get arrested.
                 \_ What about the permit to protest in Central Park?
                    The grass has a right to life, too.
              \_ Denying permits without just cause is abuse.
                 Permits are so police can block off traffic and have enough
                 people there in case people start trashing the city.
                 Are you a dumb liberal or a trolling freeper? -liberal
        \_ "AFAIK, all these protests are illegal (held without a permit)".
           Haven't you read the articles where they are arguing about using
           Central Park, and the protestors finally switched to some other
           place that was approved, and with an approved route?
        \_ The bottom line is, the mayor of NYC is refusing the Central Park
           permit because he is a Republican and a team-player.
           \_ take a look at a map of manhattan.  if the only goal was to
              protect delegates from protesters, central park would be a
              much better place to have them than snaking around through
              midtown.  If they were in central park, they could be ignored.
              I think it really is about destroying the park.
              \_ Denying them the park denies them the chance to show the media
                 a massive peaceful protest.  By forcing them into the streets
                 you make the protest look smaller and increase the chance
                 that it turns violent, which would help the Republicans
                 politically.
                 \_ No, by jamming them into a park you hide them.  By bringing
                    all life to a complete halt for the duration of the event,
                    you are showing the media your power.  Why must the
                    opposition explain this to you?  --conservative
              \_ Take a second look.  Is what I wrote the bottom line or not?
                 Do you think the Republicans would try to hold the GOP
                 Convention in NYC if the mayor were a Democrat?
                 \_ of course not, and yes, I think Bloomberg is probably
                    playing ball with the GOP on managing protesters overall.
                    Still, having a protest in central park seems kind of
                    pointless and expensive to me.  Why not just rent out a
                    stadium and call the news media?  I think that in this
                    case, Bloomberg is probably more concerned with the rich
                    people who live on central park west than with the GOP.
                    My millionaire great aunt who lived on central park west
                    was a Trotskyist, but she'd be super-pissed if the park
                    got trashed.
                    \_ Renting out a stadium is expensive too.  Central park is
                       the premier public forum in the city.
                       \_ Take over the streets, fool!  WTF?  When did the left
                          forget how to do a real protest?  --conservative

8/30    I just got a spam that included references to Empedocles and
        Anaxagoras in order to get past the spam filter (it obviously
        got through).
                 \_ You need a permit to hold a protest in a public park.
        \_ Are you sure it wasn't just email from psb?

8/30    What would a terrorist attack in NYC do to the election?
        How about if it came in Houston?

8/30    Ok this is pretty basic but... is there a way to "escape" text to
        avoid it being substituted by C preprocessor macro expansion?
        \_ Wouldn't that functionality make C preprocessing as powerful as
           lisp's quasiquote/escape? -- ilyas
           \_ Squish!  Isn't it illegal to talk about lisp on the motd?!
        \_ In general no.
        \_ What are you trying to accomplish?  -- misha.
           \_ Oh, nothing interesting. We use CPP to preprocess some in-house
              language files. Normally CPP doesn't expand macros inside strings
              I think but it seems to happen here. Anyway it's not important.
              I'll go ask the dude that wrote the thing what it's doing.

8/30    WAAAAhhhn, google usernames have to be at least 6 chars!! :(( -phuqm
        \_ yo, I hear you. I felt this pain weeks ago - rory
        \_ Lame, isn't it. -- ilyas
           \_ Very cost-effective antispam technique.  But yeah,
              it's lame.  -- misha.
        \_ It's beta.  Send in a suggestion.
        \_ Your name must be this tall to ride. -!psb
           \_ Dammit!  -mice

8/30    another photo of Kerry criss-crossing the country playing
        costume dress up.
        http://csua.org/u/8u2

8/30    poll, motd is:
        entertaining: .
        stupid: .
        a good source of info: .
        better than Slashdot: ..
        all of the above: ..

8/30    So, Bush is spending more than a Kennedy on a bender, Cheney supports
        his gay daughter and opposes an amendment to ban gay marriage, and
        the Administration is supporting international aid in the form of more
        outsourcing.  How can traditional repubs possibly support these guys?
        \_ principles
        \_ Traditional Republicans don't care about gay marriage because it's
           your business.  TR are concerned about the spending but it hasn't
           gotten out of control yet.  Your outsourcing thing is just weird.
           We send billions around the world every year on all sorts of stuff.
           Bush has put way more money into international AIDS causes than
           Clinton ever dreamed of doing.  And?
           \_ I think you meant "principal on my investment."
        \_ !Kerry | !Democrat
        \_ Totally unrelated, but I just got the pun of Bender's name (a
           hard-drinking robot in the cartoon Futurama).
           \_ wow, you're slow
        \_ The Dems are the party of institutionalized 'victims' and
           government dependents, why vote for losers?  And you invoke
           Kennedy - a man who essentially murdered a woman and later
           became a Senator because of his name - disgusting.
           \_ Careful, your small dick is showing.
              \_ Funny you would be looking.
                 \_ Gayness: inherently funny!
                    \_ It's spelled Ganus.
                       \_ GNUS NOT GANUS?!
        \_ Traditional Republicans don't care about gay marriage because it's
           your business.  TR are concerned about the spending but it hasn't
           gotten out of control yet.  Your outsourcing thing is just weird.
           We send billions around the world every year on all sorts of stuff.
           Bush has put way more money into international AIDS causes than
           Clinton ever dreamed of doing.  And?  [too bad one of you idiots
           deleted this.  restored]
           \_ ...and removed funding to any organization that promotes the
              use of condoms-- in other words, removed a working solution and
              then threw money at the problem.  How is this traditional Repub?

8/30    Another claim about his past Kerry can't seem to get straight:
        http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=merron/040830
        (Kerry claims to have run in, and finished, the Boston Marathon "in
        '80, something like that" -- but there's no official record of his
        feat, and his campaign did not provide further details despite
        repeated inquiries.)
        \_ What an important issue.  Send this to Lehrer so he can bring
           it up in the debates.
           \_ I heard Kerry eats French cheese!
        \_ I've climbed Mt. Tam but you won't find that documented anyplace.
           If I ran for office I wouldn't bother trying to document it either.
           \_ Climbing Mt. Tam doesn't usually have a sign up to get on the
              mountain unlike running in a marathon.
        \_ He was probably on a secret CIA / Seal mission at the time, that's
           why.

8/30    Recent Post, Time, LA Times, and Gallup polls all show Kerry falling
        significantly on major issues and his former overall lead over Bush
        disappearing.  Whether true or not, and politically motivated or not,
        Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's TV commercials and book caused this
        move.  How can Kerry fight terror, excel as a commander in chief, be
        trustworthy, or run the economy when more than five veterans call him
        a liar on TV -- while the most Kerry can personally do is to not accuse
        the veterans of being liars, but only ask President Bush to "condemn"
        them and claim they are politically motivated?  "Duh."  The lead was
        Kerry's to lose.  He was cautious -- he let the newspapers research the
        facts and present the differing cases.  A lot of people don't have time
        to read newspapers; they just want to see a man stand up for himself
        (a whole bunch of your fellow soldiers just called you a liar regarding
        events you should know everything about!) while getting the feeling he
        is telling the truth at the same time. -liberal
        \_ So what you're saying is Kerry isn't fit to command because he's
           too week and wishy washy.  I agree with you.  --conservative
           \_ What I'm saying is what happened, and the effect.  My own opinion
              is that these vets are all liars (I read the newspapers, source
              material, and the freeper links), but Kerry never came out
              strongly to accuse the vets of being liars. -op
              \_ post hoc ergo propter hoc
              \_ all 160 of them
                 \_ All 160 oppose Kerry becoming President.  I am talking
                    about the TV commercials. -op
              \_ Eye witness Rear Adm. Schachte is a liar?  Maybe Kerry
                 hasn't called them liars because he knows they are
                 right.
                 \_ His version contradicts with Kerry's?  Of course he's a
                    liar.
                 \_ I don't believe Schachte is a Swift Boat Vet for Truth.
                    Also, my contention is that Kerry's version and Schachte's
                    versions of the story are the same.  Kerry probably
                    suffered a self-inflicted wound from shooting a grenade
                    too closely, and Schachte was on the boat and officially
                    in charge of the operation. -op
                    \_ Then why the PH?
                       \_ Because Kerry, as a boy in a politically powerful
                          family asked for one and got it.  He has long been
                          known for pulling stunts like skipping ahead in
                          line and other nastiness with the line, "Do you know
                          who I am?!"
                          \_ You need to back this up.  I say again, it was
                             standard operating procedure to get a PH in this
                             case.  It qualified, anyone else in that situation
                             who asked would qualify, and that's it. -op
                             \_ With no enemy fire, NO.  Kerry was denied the
                                first request, but applied again after
                                Schachte left.
                       \_ It was SOP to get a PH in this case.
                          Hibbard was even criticized by a superior for
                          not following SOP in this case. -op
              \_ What reason do all these vets have to come out now?  What
                 benefit is ther for them to all tell lies about Kerry?  Is
                 there some secret payoff?  Are they all RNC operatives?  We
                 know that's not true.  Now take the other side.  What reason
                 does Kerry have to lie?  His candidacy is at risk.  He has
                 more to gain than they do.
                 \_ These vets are settling a vendetta for Kerry having
                    screwed them (their perception) in his 1971 testimony. -op
                    \_ They waited 33 years?  Ignored his multiple Senate runs
                       and only came out now?  All of them have a personal
                       and unfair vendetta for the man?  Maybe when 160 people
                       who served with you hate you that much there's a reason
                       for it.
                       \_ Who said they waited 33 years?  They've *always* been
                          against Kerry, and some have made pro-Kerry
                          statements last year and flipped all of a sudden.
                          Many in the public didn't want anything to do with
                          the vets 30 years ago.  Today, in the currently
                          polarized election environment, they can be
                          anti-Kerry and be treated like patriots.
                          "... hate you that much there's a reason for it."
                          Reason:  settling a vendetta for Kerry having screwed
                          them (their perception) in his 1971 testimony. -op
                          \_ All 160 of them are out to get him for his
                             testimony?  33 years ago?  Wow, talk about a
                             culture of victimization.  We're so far off on
                             different planes here I think I'll just let this
                             one go.  No matter what is said I think you'll
                             find a way to rationalise it so that kerry=good,
                             all 160 vets=evil.
        \_ That is not how I read the polling results at all.
           http://www.emergingdemocraticmajority.com/donkeyrising
           It helped Bush solidify his base, but that is about it.
           \_ What's your favorite Kool-aid flavor?
              \_ I ONLY READ FREEREPUBLIC AND BELIEVE THINGS I HEAR ON
                 FOX NEWS CITIZEN!!!
           \_ This URL is pretty crazy. -op
              \_ The URL is crazy or the analysis? If you think the latter,
                 I seriously don't think you are a liberal, just a pathetic
                 troll pretending to be one.
                 \_ What serious web site is going to have a picture of a
                    donkey kicking a map of red/blue states into all blue
                    states, and have a URL with "donkeyrising"?
                    Crazy is as crazy does. -op
                    \_ These guys are pretty influential in the Democratic
                       Party. Their books is huge. The specific entry
                       dealing with your concerns is:
                       http://csua.org/u/8u1
                       \_ This URL ignores the Time and Post polls, which
                          came out after and say the same thing as the LA
                          Times poll.  This argument has lost what strength
                          it had. -op

8/30    http://browsehappy.com/why   Tell your friends, and family.

8/30    Ilyas!  A thread was deleted out of order!! I WANT JUSTICE!! -meyers
        \_ I have to care about a thread first.  Get your own justice if you
           want. -- ilyas
        \_ GO BEARS!
           \_ You mean GO BEAH! right?
              \_ RIP Chancellor Tien!

8/30    All right, did the swift boat guy delete all the political trolls?
        C'mon, come out and say yes or no.

8/30    link:csua.org/u/8u5
        This creates some problems for the modern interpretation of
        quantum mechanics.  This is a very recent result: august 2004.
          -- ilyas
        \_ Ilyas, tell us about the...oh never mind.
        \_ OK what do we do now?
           \_ Well, presumably first we duplicate the results a couple of times
              to make sure it's right, and if they still hold, we chain some
              theoretical physicists to their chairs until they give a good
              interpretation of QM which fits this data. -- ilyas
              \_ http://www.kathryncramer.com/wblog/archives/000674.html
                 \_ what the fuck ever.  for those of us who don't get
                    our science from blogs based on misunderstood crap,
                    here's what 10 seconds of google turned up:
                 http://www.newscientist.com/opinion/opletters.jsp?id=ns246010
                    basically various people debunking the article that the
                    blogsphere scrambled and amplified.
                    funny how Science and Nature missed out on this
                    "earthshattering" discovery.
                    \_ Hey idiot. Afshar is one of the bloggers. Fucknut.
                       Another one is Kathryn's dad John, who you may
                       have heard of. Jerk.
                       \_ hi ilyas!  glad to see you are still following the
                          inverse of the golden rule!
        \_ Shahriar Afshar is obviously a Kerry supporter.  Light, both a
           particle AND a wave, AND at the same time, too?  Which is it,
           Afshar?  You CAN'T have it both ways!
        \_ For those who are curious, the http://newscientist.com URL explains
           why Afshar is wrong.  Thanks.  No problems created.
                          \_ Wasn't me.  Try again.  Incidentally, Afshar
                             being wrong is _good_, not _bad_.  I am just
                             reporting an item of possible interest.
                               -- ilyas
                             \_ Oops.  You had seemed pretty irritable lately,
                                but not that much.
        \_ I really don't understand how these experiments are touted as
           showing the "dual nature" of light.  Like any double experiment
           this demonstrates 1.) the WAVE nature of light and 2.) the fact
           that the detector detects in discreet quantities.  There are
           equations for energy exchange between wave functions.  Where is
           the need to resort to any "particle" nature? -phuqm

8/30    I was going to write a simple script that modify the manifest file
        in a .jar file, then, repackage the jar.  It would be relativly easy
        thing to do in perl/shell script, but in order to make it more
        reusable, i need to write it in java or some non-system-dependent
        language.  Does java has unix-command-like library I can call so
        i don't have to write sort, uniq, cat in java?
        \_ jni
           \_ most people who use this will be running on Windoze.
        \_ Do you need something that java.util.jar doesn't provide?
           Take a look at: http://tinyurl.com/6yvwu
           Perhaps the Manifest and JarFile classes already do what
           you need. Both have been present since 1.2 so you should
           have fairly good portability of your code.
           \_ I'll look at it.  This is for midlet stuff, populating
              Manifest file with information in .JAD file.  thx