Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:28 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
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2004/8/28-29 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:33196 Activity:very high
8/27    I'm a pc person and I need a laptop. From what I've seen I really
        like the apple laptops: nice wide screen, slim form and they don't
        weigh a ton. What's the closest I can get to that with a pc laptop?
        \_ I _highly_ recommend the IBM X series.  The lack of floppy/
           CD doesn't bother me (easy to PXEboot/install any OS) and they
           are tremendously robust.  Battery lasts an age, and the built-
           in bluetooth/wifi/IR is pretty well supported under non-Windows
           OS.  I would not buy another Vaio, as the ones I've had fell apart
           very soon due to piss-poor quality.  Likewise with my Toshiba
           ultralights (although the regular laptops were good quality.)
           I currently have a Thinkpad X31, dual-booting XP and Debian, but
           I've had FreeBSD running very well on it as well.  Oh and the
           keyboard is superb to use, if you don't mind the nipple (I like
           it.)  Mail me for more info.  -John
        \_ Sony Viao?  Fujitsu?  I'd go to frys first to browse their
           display, and then buy on-line.
           \_ My older brother bought a Fujitsu S7010D from http://newegg.com for
              $1,430.  He likes it a lot.
              $1,430.  14" screen, 4.2 lbs.  He likes it a lot.
        \_ Do you want an optical drive? If not, Sharp has a super-light
           (1 lbs) super-thin (~ 1/2 ") Transmeta powered laptop w/
           built-in 802.11b. It costs btw $1200-$1400.
           Sony has some thin and light laptops but everyone I know who
           has one has experienced problems with them b/c of qa issues.
           IBM has some light ThinkPads and most people seem to like them
           but I don't know where you can check one out though.
           BTW, why don't you want an Apple laptop? The 12" iBook is
           a great deal (esp. if you buy a refurb) compared to most PC
           laptops with similar specs. -iBook owner
           \_ He said he uses PC. It probably doesn't make much sense to
              have your laptop be a different OS from your main system.
              Although that could be interesting for impractical geekitude.
                \_ Using PC could mean anything these days. I primarily
                   use PCs running FreeBSD, Linux and Solaris x86 at
                   work, but my laptop is an iBook.
                   I'm not sure why having a laptop with a different
                   OS than your main system is a problem. My brother
                   primarily works with Windows and Solaris systems
                   but he uses a Powerbook. I know many people who
                   chose Powerbooks/iBooks over PC laptops even though
                   they are primarily in a Windows environment.
                   \_ Well it's a new software set to deal with. It may not
                      matter to some people depending what you use it for.
                      I think it would matter to me. And besides software there
                      is a need for learning how to do stuff with a new OS.
                      Just all the details you know from using an OS for a long
                      time. So a Mac would have to really kick butt to consider
                      switching.
                        \_ The software is sort of different, but things
                           like Photoshop, Acrobat, Word, Windows Remote
                           Desktop, FireFox, iTunes are identical to the
                           Windows versions.
                           Some of the software included with OS X is
                           better (X11, emacs, perl, XCode, terminal, ssh,
                           java, &c.) than what is bundled with Windows
                           and are on par with what is bundled with SuSE
                           or RH. Also most *nix programs now build with
                           no difficulty on OS X.
                           Arguably some stuff is worse (RealPlayer and
                           WMP come to mind), but I don't use these so
                           its not a big deal for me.
                           I'm not telling you to switch. I'm just saying
                           its not as bad as you might think, so it could
                           worth your while to consider the option as it
                           will probably work out cheaper for you overall.
                           \_ Well you can't buy one copy of office to use
                              on both. And Pentium-M is better than G4.
                                \_ Certainly this is the case if you
                                   have to buy two copies of everything,
                                   but most students (and employees) get
                                   site licenses to software such as word
                                   that allows them to use it on their
                                   home systems, so you might have to buy
                                   the Mac copy yourself.
                                   In what way is the P-M better than the
                                   G4? The battery life on my iBook G4/800
                                   is about 5 hrs. Most people I know who
                                   have a P-M get less than 3 hrs. Perhaps
                                   the P-M is faster, but what do you do
                                   on your laptop that really needs that
                                   extra cpu speed?
                                   \_  I get close to 5 hrs on my Dell, and
                                       Thinkpads can get 8 hrs with 2 batteries.
                   \_ I agree with the iBook owner.  The fact that you're even
                      looking for something comparable to iBook says a lot
                      about iBooks.  I have 5 PCs at home and one iBook.  All
                      my required X11 programs run on them, so I'm happy with
                      all of them.  iBook is just so... practical.
        \_ I think the closest is the IBM T41; similar in weight, can get
           15" screen size, and quality construction (unlike most PC laptops).
              -tom
           \_ how is HP?
        \_ For quality LIGHT notebooks, I'd only buy IBM or Toshiba.
           Sony "look" nice at first, but if they break down (and they do
           esp. those with 90 day or 1 year warranties) it is a big pain
           to get fixed. Make sure you try out the keyboards first or
           at least look at hi-res online pix to see the keyboard layout
           if you buy online.
           \_ Second on the ixnay on Sony.
        \_ IBM Thinkpad.
        \_ How about waiting a little bit for a handtop PC?  That'll be
           even smaller.  Though I decided to go with an iBook and am
           quite pleased. http://www.flipstart.com
2004/8/28-29 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:33197 Activity:high
8/28    2 Firefox 0.9 questions: where is the DOM inspector that was
        supposedly installed, and how do I kill a javascript that keeps
        throwing up popups at me?
        \_ I didn't install dom inspector on firefox, but on mozilla,
           you can start it under tools > web development. Ctrl-Shift-i
           also works.
        \_ What platform? My firefox on FreeBSD has DOM Inspector
           right in the Tools menu.
        \_ Popup blocking is somewhere under the prefs menu
2004/8/28-29 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:33198 Activity:nil
8/28    Has anybody ever used /etc/libmap.conf (FreeBSD) to map .so deps
        to a newer/older revision number?  It looks like it avoids that
        nasty business of adding 30 new symlinks everytime you pkg_add
        firefox.
        http://www.freebsdchina.org/utils/phpMan.php/man/libmap.conf/5
2004/8/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33199 Activity:very high
8/28    Statement of RADM William L. Schachte, Jr. USN (Ret.) on
        Kerry's 1st PH
        First hand account of the night in question
        http://nationalreview.com/document/document200408280010.asp
        \_ the rear admiral is angry cuz he got no lunch
           \_ can I get some of that?
        \_ We all know this already.  There was no hostile fire before Kerry
           shot his grenade launcher, he got a sliver of grenade that was
           probably from his own shot (Kerry says he didn't know where it
           came from, seeing as it was his first combat assignment), and
           he applied for the Purple Heart, his CO said forget it, he got
           it any way since this was SOP at the time, and the CO was
           admonished by higher ups for not granting it.  Purple Hearts are
           given, even if the wound was self-inflicted, as long as it was
           sustained during an action on an enemy.
        \_ Is this in the NYT?  WP?  LAT?  Any reputable news media?  No.
           Don't you think someone credible would have covered this if this
           were real?
           \_ Dewd, the gist of it is true, as I posted above. -liberal
           \_ Moreoever, those "reputable news media" are so far left
           \_ I've only been a conservative a few years, but the media's
              distortion of the Swift Vet accusations and evidence is
              the most brazen bias I've ever seen.  It's really incredible
              how far the NYT, WP, and LAT, and major broadcast
              networks will go.
              \_ I'm just wondering why many in America have been duped
                 by the Swift Boat Vets, and the smart people of the world
                 (including editors at the NYT, WP, LAT, and the network
                 news) are probably wondering the same thing.  The SBVFT are
                 liars with a vendetta.  I have no idea what you are talking
                 about when you say "accusations and evidence is the most
                 brazen bias I've ever seen" -- but I suppose this is why
                 we have the most polarized electorate anyone can remember.
                 -liberal
                 \_ "they don't understand the allegations" --sbvtroll
2004/8/28-29 [Computer/Theory] UID:33200 Activity:high
8/28    Hey, someone posted a vaguely interesting scifi story that some
        socialist wrote.  It started with the computers taking over
        management at Mickey Ds and then the world.  Anyone have the
        URL?  tnx.
        \_ I think the author was Cory Doctorow.
        \_ That guy had a breathtaking understanding of economics. -- ilyas
        \_ It was Marshall Brain.  Here's the URL:
           http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm
           I'm interested to hear rebuttals of his economic ideas, if only
           for the sake of having an argument.  This is the motd, right?
           As I understand it, the problem with his argument is that if robots
           caused 50% unemployment, the economy would evaporate and no one
           would have any money to buy robots.
           \_ In a nutshell: any increase in efficiency is a good thing, not
              a bad thing.  That's why the industrial revolution and the
              computer revolution made us better off. -- ilyas
           \_ Actually, I think this is the URL requested:
              http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm
           \_ It depends on how smart the robots are and how easy they are
              to make.  If you could create a system where robots make more
              robots from harvesting the raw resources through final
              construction then why would it be necessary to charge money
              for a robot?  Anyone who didn't want to work wouldn't have to.
              Farm robots, digging robots, maid robots, builder robots.  This
              is one version of social utopia.  Everyone would have all the
              time they wanted to pursue art & leisure instead of slaving
              away a large fraction of their life doing a job they don't like.
              I see nothing wrong with that.  I'm for 100% unemployment.
              \_ I think we're already at the point where people can spend
                 as much time as they want on art.  What we get for this
                 is a whole lot of really crappy art.  I think 100%
                 unemployment would just lead to even more rampant
                 hiedoism.  And more motd trolling.
                 \_ And poor spelling.
2004/8/28-30 [Politics/Domestic, Computer/SW/Apps/Media] UID:33201 Activity:very high
8/28    RIP, Laura Branigan.
        \ Ever see "Self-Control" Music video. William Fredkin directed it.
          \_ I got it off the net.  Wasn't it banned by MTV at the
             time?  It's a little dated now, but still wonderful.
             \_ Please copy it to /csua/tmp/. I'd like to see it.
                \_ Done.
                   \_ having trouble playing the file... with rp8/linux
                      "General error" -- with mplayer, segfaults.
                      \_ plays fine on Windows.  Try the site directly:
                         http://www.laurabraniganonline.com/sc20ann.htm
                         \_ They're down for the count.
                            \_ I got an mpeg version off a file sharing
                               network a while back.  It's out there.
                   \_ Thanks.
        \_ Now, that's a name I haven't heard in a while. Several years
           back, I somehow got to thinking about that song Self Control and
           sought out a used copy from the $2.00 bargain bin at Amoeba.
           I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but other than the
           title track, the album is unfortunately a turkey. Oh well.
           \_ Absolutely, but Self Control is still one of the best cover
              songs ever, so I guess that's worth the price of admission.
2004/8/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33202 Activity:nil
8/28    Even Karl Rove has figured out this is stupid, why can't you?
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3609312.stm
        "I think him [John Kerry] going to Vietnam was more heroic than my
         flying fighter jets. He was in harm's way and I wasn't."
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:28 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>