Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:22 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/8/22-23 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:33068 Activity:insanely high
8/21    Why is it that a miserable 3rd world nation such as China has
        more number of GOLD medals than USA, the world's wealthiest and
        most technologically advanced nation in the entire world? We
        spend billions and billions on advanced training,
        advanced technology, and advanced scienticfic research on
        our atheletes, and yet only 20 gold? For example, the runners
        get to try out the altitude tank to simulate oxygen deprivation,
        ball players try out really advanced computer simulations
        on strategies/etc, and the scientists/nutritionists customize
        the intake and monitoring of the atheletes based on advanced
        instrumentations and advanced nutritional science. With
        everything on our side, a low-tech nation such as China still
        gets more gold medals. WHY?
        \_ Because "western" nations do not treat 10 year old children like
           fucking science lab test subjects.  You'll note that the US wins
           way more medals than other "civilized" countries like, say, France
           or Japan or the UK.  -John
           \_ perhaps you should ask the chinese athletes whether they like
              to be where they are as opposed to planting sorghum at
              Big Cow village.  US dominance of track and field, etc. is itself
              the result of a big science project of selectively breeding
              african slaves.
                \_ Troll harder.  I didn't realize Kim Collins was US?  How
                   about Hailegebre Selassie?  El Gerrouj?  And as for field,
                   don't make me laugh.  -John
                   \_ a few exceptions here and there doesn't make it
                      untrue.  it's your characterization of china's
                      sports program that's laughable.  many of them
                      are talented kids from poor villages who would
                      have ended up poor farmers for the rest of their
                      lives otherwise.  Their parents are only too glad
                      to let them have the opportunity.  they always
                      have the choice to refuse to let their children
                      go.  if what you said is true, how come the
                      aussies hired two coaches from china, and
                      immediately they win gold and bronze at 10m diving?
                      the aussies must like being lab test subjects
           \_ We Japanese has less than half the population of US, but
              half its medals.  We are superior.
                \_ W00t!  Better invade China 'n prove it.
        \_ Billions?  We don't spend a penny of tax payer dollars on them.
        \_ Using technology isn't always the best way to train. Haven't you
           seen Rocky 4?
        \_ They have 4 times as many people.
        \_ Why do you care?
        \_ Pretty sure this is a troll, but ...
           - We're going to have more gold medals when the Olympics are done.
             Much of the early standings are simply because of scheduling
             (Australia, for instance, halfway through the Games has already
             won most of the medals it'll win, because they're done with the
             events they're good at. We tend to do well at, say, track and
             field, which is only just starting.)
           - The US spends no tax dollars on athletics (this is almost
             unique among nations).
           - Our govt. doesn't select promising kids at age 6? 8? 10? and put
             them into special sports schools, as does China.
             \_ Yes, in America we have overzealous parents that do that.
                \_ You know the difference between tax dollars and parent's
                   personal dollars, right?
                   \_ Yes, the parents' dollars will not be wasted. -- ilyas
                      \_ Then the parents will probably not put their kid in
                         these types of programs, because most of these things
                         aren't economically viable in themselves. The effort
                         China puts in its programs appears to have national
                         prestige and propaganda as the primary purpose and
                         these are not things that parents would normally
                         spend their own money on for their country.
                         \_ That's sort of what I was driving at, yes. -- ilyas
                         \_ actually it's more and more like the US in China.
                            athletes get big endorsements, etc.  But it's
                            still a good idea to get the government involved,
                            otherwise poorer kids with talent from the small
                            towns and villages would not have any chance to
                            succeed since the facilities simply ain't there.
           - And as the previous poster pointed out, they have 4x as many
             people (and are wholly willing to put large amounts of resources
             into training them). Our athletes, when they reach world-class
             level, have access to the best training methods in the world,
             as do China's and 20 other countries ... we certainly have no
             advantage over China or Australia or the UK or dozens of other
             \_ as far as I know, our govornment doesn't really intervene
                _at_all_ in most sports.  I knew a guy in highschool who was
                training as an olympic figure skater, and as far as I know
                he never interacted with the U.S. government in any way.
                \_ Son, that's why god invented athletic scholarships and
                   corporate sponsors.
                   \_ Yeah, but those usually don't come into play until you're
                      ALREADY real good; it's hard when you're ages 10 to 18
                      and are only just getting good. There's some sports that
                      are going to be really difficult for the US to continue
                      to compete internationally. How many universities in the
                      entire US sponsor men's gymnastics? 20. With ~10 gymnasts
                      per team, a 200-person pool for your entire national team
                      is not a deep pool at all (all US men's gymnasts went
                      to US universities; also many universities host foreign
                      students, making the pool even shallower ...).
                   \_ The olympic sports and college (i.e. NCAA) sports are
                      disjoint.  Scholarships are not available for
                      non-collegiate sports.  Corporate sponsorship is
                      basically a marketing play which means that in order to
                      be sponsored for a non-token sum, you must be an
                      established athlete with wide name recognition. -dans
                \_ i hope my tax dollars never go into training athletes. get
                   over your stupid nationalism.
                   \_ I strongly agree with you, but I suspect that the pp
                      you're responding to would also agree that this is
                      a good thing.
                   \_ Well, consider the costs. Let's say we sent 500
                      athletes to Athens. Let's say we paid them each $200k/
                      year. That's $100M, or a little more than a quarter
                      dollar per American. Would I pay a few bucks to win a
                      few more medals? Yeah, probably. I'm philosophically
                      against funding the athletes, but in the eyes of
                      government, it's pocket change.
                      \_ but we don't do it, and we still win golds, so why
                         do it?  Also, if they did it, don't expect it
                         to be given out evenly accross the sports.  As a
                         fan of some of the more obscure sports, it would
                         really piss me off to see skiing get disproportionately
                         subsidised.  If someone wants to subsidize sports
                         that people like to watch on TV, let the networks
                         who make all the money off of it do it.
                      \_ I wouldn't pay 1 penny to make the US teams win every
                         gold medal every time.
                         \_ there is plenty of information out there about
                            the societal benefits of athletic programs for
                            \_ Absolutely.  Agreed.  Sports in schools and
                               for kids in general is a great thing.  Just not
                               subsidies for advanced sports research shit so
                               "we" can win medals in some over-commercialized
                               and corrupt dope-a-thon.  -John
           "17,000 full-time athletes supported by provincial and city
            governments" (compared to zero in the US)
        \_ Because we are an imperial power in decline. Every time I point
           this out, I get called an America-hater, but I just like to
           see the world as it really is, not some Hollywood fantasy of it.
           Expect China to pass us in many other things in the next 20
           \_ *laugh*  There has never been a greater power on the planet.  The
              only power that is likely to ever be greater is if one day there
              is a true single world government that supercedes all national
              \_ Don't be so proud of your technological terror.  The
                 ability to have a single world government is insignificant
                 next to the power of the Force. -geordan
           \_ I haven't called you America-Hater but I am wondering if you are
              the same guy as the 'nuanced worldview' guy who claims 90% of
              stuff in the 'real world' is personal stuff and vendettas.  You
              sound like spiritual soul mates, and are both liberals, most
              likely.  And both wrong.  America is stronger now than it has
              ever been.  America is stronger now than any imperial power at
              any time in history, including Rome, Britain, HRE, Habsburg
              Austria, anything.  You are either a troll or an idiot.
              \_ Nah, I will take the British Empire over America in terms
                 of power and accomplishments.
                 \_ Such as going to space and the moon, better health, longer
                    lives, a standard of living for the average citizen that
                    makes British Royalty of the past look like the lower
                    classes here now, no real enemies, safe to walk the streets
                    at night in most places, access to affordable and often
                    free education generally available, and a safety net the
                    British Empire never dreamed of.  And that's just off the
                    top of my head.  What were the British Empire's accomplish-
                    ments?  Turning both Afirca and the Middle East into hell
                    holes intentionally?  Thanks British Empire!
                    \_ errr ... the idea is to compare with contemporary
                       rivals.  also, a lot of the things you mentioned
                       are not good benchmarks of strength and power.
                       Switzerland also doesn't have enemies, and has
                       safe streets, free education, safety net, etc.
                       That doesn't make it a powerful country.
                       \_ Playing Victoria teaches you a lot about power
                          dynamics at the time of the British Empire (even if
                          it's just a silly game).  As Britain you did NOT want
                          the next 2-3 powers to gang up on you.  Britain had
                          a pretty light touch as an imperial power, because
                          they had no choice.  Britain had structural
                          weaknesses, foremost of which was their small
                          population and size (compared to the vast geographic
                          area of their holdings).  US has no real weaknesses,
                          except for oil, and that's only a weakness because
                          there is no will to make it go away.  -- ilyas
                          \_ US has plenty of weaknesses.  Its power is
                             dependent on an economic system that requires
                             the willing participation of allies and other
                             countries in Europe and Asia.  With the
                             introduction of guerilla warfare, occupying
                             other countries has also become prohibitively
                             expensive for America, as shown in Vietnam
                             and Iraq.  Then there is still Russia, which
                             can wipe out the US with the push of a button.
                       \_ Fuck powerful countries. Their only use is to counter
                          other powerful countries that might fuck you over.
                          The nationalist bullshit even in the olympics annoys
                          the hell out of me, all those national anthems after
                          every event. To me it actually takes away from the
                          individual achievements, the way the athletes are
                          made to personify their countries. Ideally, most team
                          sports should be eliminated from the Olympics and
                          the focus put on individual performances like it was
                          in ancient times.
           \_ I've seen you post this a number of times, and I've never
              seen anyone call you an America Hater.  Especially since
              this has little to do with the subject, I think you're a
              troll.  How about, Neo-con Troll?
              \_ neo-con troll?  have you ever listened to NPR?  maybe
                 they're all neocon trolls as well.  what you've just seen
                 is the typical NPR listener in action.
                 \_ Yes, but he's trolling FOR Neo-Cons.  Although, sure.
                    NPR Troll?  Empire Troll?
              \_ I think it has everything to do with the subject. China
                 is no longer a pissant third world country anymore. And
                 I detest the Neocons.
                 \_ All 7 of them?  It isn't a huge movement.  And yes, China
                    is still very much a pissant third world country.  They
                    can't even retake their own break away province much less
                    pose any sort of threat to the US.  If we were a brutal
                    conquering nation like they are we would have stomped
                    them decades ago.
                    \_ we ain't?  where are all the indians then?
                       \_ Getting rich with their casinos.
                          \_ Good idea.  Let's turn the Potala Palace
                             into a big casino.
              \_ WTF does anything this guy is saying have to do with
                 conservatives, neo or otherwise?
                 \_ See above reply.  The guy sounds like the's trolling
                    to make Neo-Cons angry.  If you don't know why, look
                    up the definition of Neo-Con.
        \_ The only reason China is ahead of America is because
           America gave them a free gold:
           \_ What happened to the csuamotd/csuamotd login?
        \_ The whole premise is false.  For whatever reason, China has always
           been strongest at the the items that got competed earlier, and
           whichAmerica (and the west) by and large do not care and hardly
           even consider as a regular sports (TABLE tennis???).  If you
           go back to olympic history, you will see the Chinese team get
           a bunch of medals at the start, then get stuck there for the
           rest of game, while the 3rd reich, the USSR , and Amerika
           will have a steady and linear increase.  They are the really
           competitors in the olympics.
           \_ yes but at least they dont have table tennis to 15 points,
              to 21 points, 50 points and 100points.
           \_ china is good at sports that require skills, intelligence
              and precision.  us is good at sports that require brute
              power, cause us has lots of africa athletes.
              \_ So basically any sport where you don't have to sweat or
                 move much.
                 \_ you do have to sweat.  it's just that sweating like
                    a dumb mule won't by itself win you any medal.
              \_ extremely weak troll.
                 \_ it may be a troll but it's also the truth.  besides
                    the message it's replying to is also a troll.
        \_ For the same reason lots of inner city kids are good in some sports.
           It's a way out. 'nuff said.
2004/8/22 [Uncategorized] UID:33069 Activity:nil
8/22    Logan Tom is the cutest girl on the USA volleyball team.
        She has a cute face, but her body is weird, with a very
        small upper torso, but big thick strong legs.  But then
        she spikes really well too.
        \_ That's nice.
2004/8/22 [Uncategorized] UID:33070 Activity:nil
8/22    How come US doesn't just invade Cuba, put Fidel Castro in
        a prison, and get it over with?  Shouldn't it be really
        simple, like Nicaragua?  I don't get it.
        \_ The Russians were always surprised that we didn't.  I think it
           goes back to the promise we made during the Spanish American
           War to keep Cuba free.  Nevermind that most Cubans would love
           to have us invade. They would welcome us as liberators!
        \_ Bay of Pigs
        \_ Because it isn't worth a drop of American blood.
           \_ Iraq is?
        \_ no oil.
2004/8/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:33071 Activity:high 50%like:32491 50%like:33002 50%like:35669
8/22    Vote early, but most especially, vote often!
        \_ 68% of double voters are Democrats (18% republican, 16%
           independant) but they use 2 republicans, 1 democrat, and 1
           unmentioned as examples, and they talk about one of the
           republicans twice.  Hmm...
           \_ And 68% (or thereabouts) of total voters are registered
              democrats...  Hmm...  Maybe there's a large portion of
              people on BOTH sides that are not cleared from their
              former states of residence...
              \_ No, all the dead registered Democrats don't count except in
                 places like Florida, Chicago, and certain precints in
                 Penn. where Gore received more than 100% of the vote.
           \_ Nope!  No left wing media bias here!  No, sirree!
           \_ No, those percentages were poeple who registered twice.  The
              examples were people who actually voted twice.  Who knows if
              numbers are the same.  For a while I was reigistered in two
              states because I didn't even think I'd have to unregister
              I assumed there was some system to do that.  I never actually
              voted in two states at the same time.
              \_ Hmm, with 68% (D) doubled registered vs 18% (R) doubled, 2
                 double voting (R) and 1 double voting (D) means that (R)
                 are roughly 7x more likely to double vote!  Republicans: evil,
                 Democrats: good!
           \_ I don't suppose there might be some non-scandalous explanation
              like Democrats move state to state more often while conservatives
              are more likely to stay put.
              \_ Republicans: good, democrats: evil!
              \_ They only checked New York and Florida.  Most Jews are
                 \_ Jews are EVIIIIILLLLLL!!!! Unless they are in Isreal and
                    kicking Palestinian ass, in which case they are GOOOOOODDDD!
                    because they are bringing about the Apocalypse!!!!
                    \_ Is encouraging the Apocalypse akin to promoting suicide?
                       \_ No, because true believers will have everlasting life
                          \_ Well, that and we'll all be taken up in the
                             rapture. It's all YOU jerks who die.
                             --I agree with Paul
                             \_ Nope, the Gupper's full.
                             \_ Through the destruction of the nonbelievers,
                                shall you achieve Eternal Paradise. Yum!! Full
                                of Creamy Christian Goodness!
                                \_ Ummm... no.  That's creamy Muslim
                                   goodness.  In the Christian case, you
                                   aren't allowed to kill non-believers
                                   yourself, but it's ok for God to kill
                                   \_ But working for the Apocalypse is trying
                                      to force God's hand. Is that good or bad?
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:22 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>