Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:18 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/8/18 [Uncategorized] UID:32975 Activity:low
8/17    American Pimp Junior:
        "you know, for the kids". --partha "slim" banerjee
        \_ Partha, do you have ho's in different area codes?
2004/8/18 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32976 Activity:kinda low
8/17    Yet another devastating poll.  And again, the people have spoken:
        BUSHCO LOSES!!!
        \_ We had a mock election like that when I was in 3rd grade.
           Mondale won by about 95 to 5.  Imagine our shock on election
           \_ Obviously the election was rigged!
              \_ OMFG!  His 3rd grade class was just a trial run for Florida
                 2000!!  Has anyone reported this to the FBI of the World
                 Court yet?
        \_ Damn it, punk, i've go $200 bucks on Kerry to win and your post
           was a stupid tease.  Children support Kerry, that's just super.
           \_ What odds did you get?
           \_ Sorry, but no poll at this stage is telling you anything.
              There's a poll on November 2nd you should check.
2004/8/18 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/Security] UID:32977 Activity:low
8/17    No free speech for fascists!,1283,64602,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

        (Hackers plan to DOS Rebublican websites)
        \_ Expecting ethical behavior from crackers is 'Sofa King, We Tod-Ed'
        \_ Um, freedom of speech is a protection against government crackdown
           on speech.
2004/8/18 [Transportation/Car, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:32978 Activity:moderate
8/18    Where is the coolest place in a car on a hot sunny day
        among the following choices.  I ask the same question assuming the
        windows are closed, and then again if the windows are open enough
        to let some breeze in:
        a) trunk
        b) under the driver's seat
        c) glove compartment
        d) in the little compartment between the 2 front seats
        e) other
        \_ on my bicycle riding away after smashing the windows out of
           your infernal combustion engine monster.
           \_ "internal", right?
              \_ Humorless motd denizen
        \_ By the vent with the A/C turned on.
        \_ Less than 1-2 hours, the trunk, longer than that, one of the front
           wheel wells

           \_ But that's outside of the car.
              \_ No, the place where your feet go.
        \_ here's an idea: GET A FUCKING THERMOMETER
           \_ Empirical testing--what a novel idea.  Hey, when you do this let
              the rest of us know.
        \_ Yes, I'm sure variables like what kind of vehicle are unimportant.
2004/8/18-24 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:32979 Activity:nil 50%like:33107
8/18    /csua/tmp will be cleaned up tomorrow (8/19 at around noon, PST).
        Everything older than a year will get deleted.  If you care about
        something that is older than a year, 'touch' it.
2004/8/18 [Reference/Religion] UID:32980 Activity:nil
8/17    God you people are depressing.
        \_ Depression is an internal state.  Seek help.
2004/8/18 [Health/Eyes] UID:32981 Activity:kinda low
8/17    Has anyone had to switch from soft->hard contacts because of
        keratoconus, in which the hard contact lenses are custom made to
        fit the irregularities? What are hard contact lenses like?
        \_ I made that switch once. It hurt like a bitch. It felt like
           my cornea was being pinched and stretched to the point where
           the image I was seeing was being distorted. I finally
           returned the hard lenses after a week.
        \_ I switched from soft to hard.  Hard lenses are not very comfortable.
           whe you wear it, you feel like there is a hair in your eye all
           the time.  Worse, when something got into your eyes, it hurts like
           hell. However, I prefer hard over soft because I don't feel the
           drieness.  I can wear hard lens for 16-17 hours straight without
           feeling dry in my eyes.  Further, hard lenses are easier to take
           care off.  Thus, despite all its short-comings, I prefer hard
           over soft.
2004/8/18 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:32982 Activity:very high
8/17    Its nearly quarter to 11:00 and no Obsessive SwiftBoat Lunatic yet.
        Where are you OSL?!
        \_ He's on a conference call getting the new talking points for this
        \_ For your viewing pleasure, the cspan footage of the debate between
           John Kerry and John O'Neill on the Dick Cavett show in 1971:
           \_ Thank you OSL!
              \_ Don't know if I'm actually OSL, but I'd hate to disappoint.
           \_ When we pulled out of Vietnam, the dominoes never fell, which
              was our original reason for going there.
              \_ That could also mean that Vietnam was a success.
        \_ Are you any different if you're doing as much deleting as he is
           posting?  Can we call you Obsessive SwiftBoat Censor Lunatic?
           \_ I'm not censoring anything... If people would stop censoring
              that idiot, maybe he would give up the ghost - I get the feeling
              he's one of those folks that thrives on any sort of attention,
              negative or positive.
              \_ The incorrect assumption that it's only one person could lead
                 you to a false conclusion like this.
2004/8/18 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/SW/Security] UID:32983 Activity:moderate
8/17    I used to use a POP3 client on my laptop to check my soda email
        through a secure, encrypted ssh tunnel. This does not seem to
        be working anymore... has this been disabled?
        \_ no, you broke something on your side.
2004/8/18 [Uncategorized] UID:32984 Activity:high
8/17    I used to have a really cool travel toothbrush that had a refillable
        toothpaste tube in the handle-- it was about 6" long (didn't fold)
        and 1/2" diameter.  Anybody know what this was called or where to
        find it?
        \- is this some kind of homosexual code? -psb
           \_ No, I found and bought 3 at REI: the brand is something with
              with "clever" in it; there's also a brand called "Oratek"
              available at, a canadian REI.
2004/8/18 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:32985 Activity:very high
8/17    How can one match wildcards '*' with files that start with a '.' in
        bash and tcsh?
        \_ .[^.]* works for most cases, but will not match ""
        \_ ls -A1 | grep '^\.'
        \_ ls * .*
        \_ i personally prefer .??* .
        \_ ls `find . -type f -name .\*`
        \_ ls `find . -type f -name .\*`, although it's not using the wildcard
           facility in the shells.
           \_ this will traverse down the directory tree.  this behavior
              would be different from what the others do and may or may not
              be desirable.
              \_ Use this then: echo `find . -type f -name .\* -maxdepth 1`
                 \_ At this point, what do you gain by using find?  It would
                    be better if you were tall enough to use xarg or even
                    -exec.  There would still be no point in using find though.
                    \_ Example without using "find" please?
                       \_ from above, .* or .??*
                          \_ ".*" will always exclude the parent directory
                             because ......?  And ".??*" will still work if
                             there's a file named ".f" because ......?
                             \_ % echo .*
                                . [deleted] .. [deleted]
                                % echo .?*
                                [deleted] .. [deleted]
                                Try it yourself.  Whether you want . depends
                                on what you'd want to do with the results,
                                I'd guess.
                             \_ BTW, ls `find [...]` should choke on file
                                names with a space.  Probably other things too.
                                \_ Yes it does, but as in my -maxdepth example
                                   above I already switched to echo `find ...`.
                                   \_ echo only works because it doesn't use
                                      the result of the find to touch the
                                      file system.  your examply `find [...]`
                                      will fail any time someone tries to do
                                      that, so it's not a complete solution,
                                      as well as being one wasteful of system
                                      resources.  again, i urge you to learn
                                      either xargs or -exec.  preferably xargs,

                                      but like partha likes to say, you have
                                      to be this tall to use xargs.
                                      \_ Your example ".*" will fail even when
                                         no one tries to "touch the file
                                         system."  (By "touch the file system"
                                         I suppose you meant accessing the
                                         files afterwards using the match
                                         result, since expanding filename
                                         wildcards already requires touching
                                         the file system.
                                         \_ % mkdir ".try this"
                                            % ls -d .*
                                            ./  ../  .try this/
                                            you have access to a csh?  show me
                                            where it fails.
                                            \_ Again, . and .. are not files.
                                               \_ again,
                                                  % od .
                                                  % od ..
                                                  \_ % cd /
                                                     % which od
                                                     % od .
                                                     od: .: Is a directory
                                                     % od ..
                                                     od: ..: Is a directory
                                                     And you point?
                                                     \_ /usr/bin/od
                                                        % ls /usr/local/bin/od
                                                        ls: /usr/local/bin/od:
No such file or directory
                                                        in any case, i have to
                                                        leave for dinner.
                                \_ Indeed.
                                   % touch "try this"
                                   % ls
                                   try this
                                   % ls `find .`
                                   ls: ./try: No such file or directory
                                   ls: this: No such file or directory
                                   try this
                                   Like I said, I wish you were tall enough
                                   to use xargs or -exec.
                                   \_ You being tall enough to use xargs or
                                      -exec didn't help the fact that your
                                      example doesn't even work in any
                                      directory.  So what's the point.
                                      \_ which example?  i merely copied from
                                         solutions above.  .* does work for
                                         all files, including . and .. .
                                         .?* will exclude ., which is perhaps
                                         \_ Excuse me?  . and .. are not files,
                                            are they?
                                            \_ sure they're not files.
                                               \_ obtw,
                                                  % od .
                                                  % od ..
           \_ also xargs, but you have to be this tall to use it.
        \_ this task is trivial if you use 'set noglob'.
2004/8/18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:32986 Activity:very high
8/17    Squishing kchang the second time is like going back to Iraq
        the second time. Just as GWB has no proof of WMD but decided
        to squish Sadam anyways because of credible intelligence
        from the CIA, the CSUA administration decided to squish
        kchang because of credible finger-of-death intelligence
        from the EECS department. And just as GWB tries to finish
        off the business that his daddy started, the current CSUA
        administration is finishing off the business that their
        petty vindictive peers started.
        \_ Yes, blame the CIA for producing the intelligence that Bush
           and Cheney wanted to hear... after they pressured the CIA
           to reach those conclusions and sent reports back if they
           weren't "supportive" enough.
           \_ The bi-partisan 9/11 commission says all the CIA analysts they
              talked to said "pressure" didn't cause them to change their
              \_ Er, no.  This subject was outside their jurisdiction.  The
                 report on that is due AFTER the election.
                 IIRC, one of the commissioners talked about this in an
                 appendix, but it was not part of the full report.
                 \_ It was conclusion 102 in the 9/11 report, and is pretty
                    much how I said it.  After the election, I believe the
                    Commission will be looking at how "the executive branch
                    handled the intelligence", although I suppose they might
                    discover evidence countering their earlier conclusion --
                    who knows what will happen after the election?
           (Washington Post)
        \_ Yeah.. no proof .. keep saying it and maybe 100% believe
        \_ When someone has a history of abuse, and has further proven himself
           to be a total sociopath, he isn't going to get the benefit of the
           doubt the way someone else would. That's not a vendetta, it's just
           the way that society operates. Get it kchang?
           \_ Well, since he's sorried and can't read this, I'd say no, he
              won't 'get it'.
           \_ while(1) {finger("soda");} makes him a 'total sociopath'?  From
              that point on you lost any credibility.
              \_ Uh, no. His interactions with many people on soda, especially
                 women, are what marks him as a sociopath.
                 \_ Soda is full of sociopaths by your definition.
                    Danh: "I am going to unilyas the motd because I an angry
                    at my phlegm-filled lungs", etc.  -- ilyas
                    \_ ilyas, I suggest you find out more about kchang's
                       original squishing before making this comparison again.
                       Trust me.
                       \_ Trust what?  Post details.  -!ilyas
                          \_ it was a sad affair, I find myself
                             reluctant to post the URL or give big hints
                        \_ Yes, trust anonymous cowards. ilyas #2
                 \_ Then he should be squished for his interactions with other
                    members, not for this BS finger nonsense.  If any of the
                    women want to start something or you'd like to start on
                    their behalf you're welcome to but until then there is
                    no justification for squishing him or for calling him
                    names.  You're just making a cheap attempt to
                    dehumanize him to self justify your personal animosity.
           \_ squishing kchang is like squishing Al Capone. They
             couldn't get him from bad interactions (murder) so
             they got him from the evil finger loop abuse (taxavation)
             \_ What pisses me off is that the finger loop abuse was a bone
                headed way to build a system that is quite useful and good
                (KAIS MOTD) and is now gone.  If people were upset about the
                fingering, they should have 're-educated' him about the smart
                way of doing things.  Sorrying him in a personal vendetta is
                lame, though I suppose not too rare.  There are Sodans that
                piss me off, but I just ignore them.
                \_ kchang, and you, signed something which explicitly said
                   not to piss off the admins of other machines.
                   \_ just how upset did that make the admin?
           \_ while kchang's was rather rude to some of the ladies, that
              was like 5 years ago.  he hasn't done anything that justified
              squising since returning.  I support having kchang back.
              \_ What, you mean aside from violating explicitly stated CSUA
                 policy?  Nothing at all!  Nope nope nope.  Nice blinders,
                 \_ Ah yes, the policy police is back.  I propose we squish
                    EVERYONE who has EVER violated ANY explicitly stated
                    CSUA policy.  Throw the policy at them!  In fact, while
                    we are on the subject of policy, why is EECS net being
                    used by all the crusty alumni?  Isn't that against some
                    EECS policy or other?  Gosh, I better turn us all in.
                      -- ilyas
                    \_ your point has already been made in the much more
                       succinct and less ranty post below:
                       \_ You know, you are right.  We should make the motd
                          more efficient by just having equivalence classes
                          talk, not individual users.  We can have
                          angry-liberal (represented by aaron),
                          scat-connoisseur (represented by danh),
                          religious-republican (emarkp?),
                          sysadmin-asshole (tom),
                          raving-libertarian (me),
                          and so on.  It will be a glorious conversation
                          between archetypes!  Why bother making the
                          motd world-writable anyways?  In fact, why say
                          anything at all?  It has all already been said.
                            -- ilyas
                 \_ All of you losers using the motd for non-University
                    business are in danger of a squishing!!1!
                    \_ Wow!!1!  Way to miss the forest for the trees!  There's
                       this novel idea called 'spirit of the law'!!1!  Maybe
                       you should learn how to use a web browser, kid!!!1!
                       \_ If you truly wish to use the "spirit of the law"
                          argument, one can plausibly say that fingering more
                          than once per second (the packets routed through
                          EECS machines) should not fall under network abuse,
                          as it should constitute a tiny portion of network
                          traffic across those routers.
                          Without any further information, one can infer that
                          the EECS admin sent a message to soda root, letting
                          them know that something "might" be going on with
                          finger packets.  One can then infer that root
                          abused the "spirit of the law" and squished kchang
                          because he "piss[ed] off" another admin.
                          \_ So what you're saying is that until more details
                             leak out, we're both full of shit.  *shrug*
                                \_ first of all, I doubt karen, jvarga,
                                   ajaffe, nksingh, and any of the current
                                   politburo members care about the motd.
                                   Secondly, why can't you just email one
                                   of these guys to get an official statement
                                   on the squishage?
                                   \_ 1) I have other sources of information
                                      than the motd, 2) You can do that just
                                      as easily, 3) it's motd -- it's not
                                      worth the effort, 4) you're an easy
2004/8/18-19 [Uncategorized] UID:32987 Activity:moderate
8/17    Can someone kindly suggest a book on introduction of RF circuit
        design? Thanks.
        \_ Pozar! Pozar! Pozar is the the STANDARD!!!!!
           Microwave Engineering by David Pozar is a great
           introduction to general microwave concepts.  He also
           has a book with more practical device stuff.  A good read.
           \_ So what do you think of Pozar?  I heard it was ok.
           \_ I've seen a book by Pozar. Is that one any good?
              \_ are you guys making fun of me?  -pozar #1 fan
                 \_ yeah but in a friendly way not the typical motd way.
2004/8/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:32988 Activity:very high
        Gov. McGreevey:  I am married to a woman, and had a gay affair with
          Cipel, aiding his emmigration from Israel to be with me by giving him
          a cush homeland security director job although he wasn't qualified.
          He was going to sue for sexual harrassment unless I paid him $5
          million.  But he sure is cute.
        Cipel:  It's true!  Not only that, I'm straight.  All his advances
          were unwanted!
        Gay college professor:  Cipel had a relationship with me!
        \_ What is McGreevey's wife's stance on this?  I don't see it mentioned
           in the news.
           \_ She thinks Cipel's kinda cute too.
           \_ The wife almost never speaks when a politician is forced to go
              public as a scumbag cheat of any sort.  They "stand by their
              man" because what else is she going to do if she helps his
              career go down the drain?  He's the gravy train.
              \_ Did Hillary express support during the Monica scandal?
                 \_ She's still married to him, isn't she?
        \_ Am I the only one who thinks McGreevey's wife is hot?
           \_ Yes.
           \_ I haven't even seen a pic in the news yet.  URL please?
           \_ Pic?
              \_ There is a shot on Rush Limbaugh's page:
                 \_ Thanks.  Hmm, hard to tell from that pic if she's hot.
                    \_ CNN had a pic a few days ago when this was news.  She's
                       aged milf at best and that's only with full make-up.
           \_ Yes, I think waking up to his wife everyday turned him gay.
              HOTTER!!  GAYER!!
           \_ she might have been hot 20 years ago.
        \_ homophobic bigot!
2004/8/18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:32989 Activity:nil
8/17    Below it says kchang is unsquished.  I never met the guy but
        from what I know his squishing was unjustified and I'm glad his
        account was restored if it's true.
        \_ Hi kchang.
           \_ lol.
           \_ nope.  i couldn't pick the guy out of a line up of 2.  -op
        \_ cf. kchang's first squishing
           \_ These threads are fun. I propose that kchang be squished
              periodically in order to provide motd entertainment.
              \_ I think squishing tom would be fun too.
                 \_ Seconded!
2004/8/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:32990 Activity:very high
        GOP lawmaker: Iraq war a 'mistake'
        ... Rep. Doug Bereuter of Nebraska, who until earlier this month was
        the vice chairman of the House Intelligence Committee -- a panel that
        reviewed much of the evidence the administration cited before going to
        war: ... "I've reached the conclusion, retrospectively, now that the
        inadequate intelligence and faulty conclusions are being revealed, that
        all things being considered, it was a mistake to launch that military
        action, especially without a broad and engaged international coalition
        ... Left unresolved for now is whether intelligence was intentionally
        misconstrued to justify military action"
        \_ Hey, what's in the "..." sections?  I hate when partial quotes are
           posted.  Now I've got to go read the whole thing to find out what
           he really said.  Motd bits aren't that expensive.  Just post it
           next time.
        \_ Oh gee.. Another politician who doesn't march lock-and-step!
           \_ Well, he was vice-chairman of the House Intelligence Committee
              from 2001-2004.
              He's going to catch a lot of hell, even though he's retiring.
              What I'm really curious about is how Dubya's people will do it.
              <SARCASM>He really needs to be made an example of.</SARCASM>
              \_ Are you serious?  He needs to be make an example of for stating
                 an obvious truth?
              \_ Are you serious?  He needs to be make an example of for
                 stating an obvious truth?  [formatd]
                 \_ For breaking party ranks:
                    Loyalty > "making the right decision" > "truth"
                    If it was such an obvious truth that it was a mistake, Bush
                    wouldn't still be saying it was the right decision anyway.
                    \_ Independent thought!  Horrors!
        \_ Another entry for the "No shit sherlock" file.
        \_ Why isn't this on yet?  They're usually pretty
           \_ it is.
              \_ Wow, you're right.  I see the freeper responses are:  he's
                 Kerry's toady; disunity shows weakness, encouraging
                 terrorists; France/Germany/Russia had financial incentives
                 for not joining a coalition; just what is this Asian
                 Foundation he's joining; he lives in a city of liberals.
2004/8/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:32991 Activity:high
8/17    Kerry's impassioned defense of ... gay marriage
        \_ He was right before, now he's occupying the center so he can win
           the election.  A flip-flop, kind of, but one I actually don't mind.
           \_ Well, no.  There's no flip flop.  "Kerry was on record
              saying that every state in the union should be required
              to recognize gay marriage if one states courts decided
              it should exist there..."  Well, yeah.  That's what the
              federal law on recognizing out of state marriage contracts
              says.  There's nothing here that goes against what he's
              saying now.  He's not pushing for recognizing gay marriage,
              but if it were to happen somewhere, it must be transferrable
              across state lines.
              \_ Except the DOM Act says otherwise.
                 \_ Which is what he was decrying (and voted against)
                    in the article that they were talking about.
2004/8/18-19 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:32992 Activity:high
8/17    Watch out tom!  People are beating up peeping toms!  Who's to say
        freeping toms won't be next?
        \_ This site has more graphical details:
           \_ milfish picture included.
              \_ Yeah not bad until you consider for a moment she beat on a
                 guy for an *hour* and stuck a tree branch up his ass and
                 left him to bleed to death.
2004/8/18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:32993 Activity:nil
8/18    Why was my 'let's all get a thong' thread squished?
2004/8/18-19 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:32994 Activity:high
8/18    Firefox question.  The form "submit" button doesn't always work on
        firefox since version 0.8 on Windows platform.  Same version on
        solaris seems to works fine.  Anyone experience the same problem?
        How to resolve it?
        \_ Clint Eastwood's worst movie?
           \_ Clint did a lot of bad movies.  Firefox wasn't even close to
              the worst.  Anyway, as usual, read the book.  It was way better.
                \_ Well, there was that movie where he sings _paint your wagon_
                   or some such, but, besides that, you would have a hard time
                   coming up with a worse Clint movie than _firefox_.
        \_ Never had any such problems.  Did you clear out your profile when
           you upgraded?
2004/8/18-19 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:32995 Activity:very high
8/18    Doesn't math.h define min() and max() functions?  What should I include
        to get them?  I'd rather not do the (a < b) ? a : b thing.  Thx
        \_ No.  Many programmers define it as a new macro.  Don't know what
           gcc people do, offhand.
        \_ OS X has fmin(3)/fmax(3) which conform to ISO/IEC 9899:1999(E).
           Linux might have these too.
        \_ If you do the macro, do it right at least:
           #define min(a,b) (((a) < (b)) ? (a) : (b))
           Keep in mind that evaluates an expression twice.  If this is C++,
           <algorithm> defines std::min() and std::max().
            defines std::min() and std::max().
           \_ ... and, if you do define them as macros, name them as MIN and
              MAX.  Don't make things with macro semantics look like normal
              functions.  Anyway, to the OP, what would you have math.h
              do?  C doesn't offer templates or function overloading, so
              would you have it define separate min/max functions for the
              various numeric types (and possibly combinations of types),
              using different function names for each case? --jameslin
              \_ Sidenote: About macro names.  Why are putc() and putchar()
                 defined with lower-cases?
2004/8/18-19 [Uncategorized] UID:32996 Activity:nil
8/18    Is there a linux boot argument for keyboard repeat delay?
2004/8/18-19 [Consumer/CellPhone] UID:32997 Activity:very high
8/18    Are there any cell phone shops in bay area that'll sell you
        unlocked cellphones with a plan?  Specifically, I'm looking to
        purchase Nokia 6820 with TMobile.
        \_ Yes. Recently there was even a store in San Mateo that was
           offering a good discount on an unlocked T630 with activation
           with TMobile. I don't remember the name unfortunately. It was
           advertised in the paper. I think jwang found it and told me. -shac
        \_ Most Chinese stores will unlock your phone for $10.
           \_ What I'm wondering is if there are any stores that'll give me
              a discount on the phone, since many Chinese stores are willing
              to give better deals on phones relying on commision from the
              service plan. -op
        \_ Nokia phones are trivial to unlock.  Search on howardforums.
           \_ This isn't about unlocking, it's about buying a phone w/o
              paying the full price. -op
              \_ Pretty much anyplace you buy it with a plan will give you a
                 subsidized price.  If you want it unlocked you'll either have
                 to do it yourself, or fins a place that will do it for some
                 small $$.
                 \_ Let me be more clear.  6820 is only offered by AT&T in US.
                    I want to use the phone with T-Mobile.  As far as I know,
                    the carriers will not subsidize phones that aren't locked
                    into their own company.  So the discount would have to be
                    from the reseller who makes commission on service
2004/8/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:32998 Activity:very high
8/18    Play if you want.  (Hurry, Bush's people will have a response tomorrow
        13-term House representative Bereuter will be discredited in what way?
        [blah blah]
        \_ Eh, forget it.  I noticed has some responses already.
           They are:  political vendetta, entitled to his opinion.  I also
           missed one, which is:  Dismissing him as small fry.  There's also
           another approach, which is to attack one or more weaker elements
           of his letter, which is probably what they'll do tomorrow morning
           (something like "we are achieving peace, just as with the
           disbandment of the Sadr militia") -op
        \_ Why does he need to be discredited?  All he's saying is that with
           20/20 hindsight, the world was better with Hussein in power than
           with him out of power.  I think Bereuter says loud and clear all
           on his own what he believes.  No need to discredit him.
           \_ there have been other consequences to that war besides
                (in_power? hussein iraq)
           \_ The big deal is, with hindsight, Dubya still says going
              to war against Iraq was the right thing to do.  This Republican
              (also vice-chair of the House Intelligence Committee between
              2001-2004) has said in hindsight after reviewing all the
              data, it was a mistake.
2004/8/18-19 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:32999 Activity:nil
8/18    OpenSSH 3.9 is out:
        Some cool new features are:
        - Session multiplexing
        - Reintroduction of PAM support
2004/8/18-19 [Uncategorized] UID:33000 Activity:kinda low
8/18    Does anyone know anything more about this (md5 collisions):
        \_ Yes.  It affects more than MD5 (i.e. SHA-0 and MD4, HAVAL-128
           and RIPEMD.)  However, there's some argument as to the veracity
           of the findings or the seriousness of the vulnerability at
2004/8/18-19 [Recreation/Media] UID:33001 Activity:nil
8/18    Hm, I wonder what the theme will be behind this movie:  (Trey Parker, Matt Stone)
2019/02/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:18 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>