Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:11 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32820 Activity:very high 84%like:32844
8/10    Al Qaeda plans to assassinate a major western leader when Osama gives
        the go-ahead. http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040811-123531-3824r.htm
        I'll bet anything they're going after Kerry.  If I was bin Laden, the
        last person in the world I'd want as President of the US would be a
        war hero who promised to fight a more 'sensitive war on terror'.  Run,
        John!  Run!
        Hey, this sounds familiar:
        "The goal of the next attack is twofold: to damage the U.S. economy
        and to undermine the U.S. election," the official said. "The view of
        al Qaeda is 'anybody but Bush.' "
        \_ Man, that would make a good campaign ad for Bush.  "The terrorists
           say, 'anybody but Bush.'  What do YOU say?"
           \_ Maybe Bush is one reason they're attacking us in the first
              place?
                \_ Maybe Bush has put the fear of god into them?
                   \_ Haha, that's a good one.
              \_ In the first place?  Where were you during the Clinton
                 administration?
        \_ "The one unrelaceable assett for al Quaeda is US FOreign policy",
           if al Qaueda is for "anyone but bush", they are dumber than I
           thought.  Iraq was a christmas present for Osama.
           \_ It's pretty obvious Al Qaeda is dumb. -- ilyas
              \_ What about the scores of pages describing potential targets
                 written in perfect English found in the latest arrest?
                 (e.g., can't get a truck in the garage, drive a limo instead)
                 \_ You are missing the forest for the trees.  There's no doubt
                    Al Qaeda is smart enough to organize 911, etc.
                    Nevertheless, something about the way they are going about
                    their business that strikes me as fundamentally dumb.
                      -- ilyas
                    \_ Targeting a high-profile individual for assassination,
                       when there are so many out there that you can't always
                       protect, is dumb?
                       Please identify what is fundamentally dumb.
                       \_ Any extremist organization is fundementally dumb.
                          If they were smart they wouldn't be extremist.
                       \_ Ok.  Say they succeed.  They assassinate Bush.
                          Or set off a dirty nuke in Los Angeles or something.
                          What will this get them?  America already isn't very
                          happy with the Arab world, and even Arab Americans.
                          Do you realize what will happen?  We will most likely:
                          (a) institute the draft (probably won't be necessary
                          with the volume of volunteers)
                          (b) convert to war footing a la WWII
                          (c) absolutely SQUISH the entire Middle East, and
                              possibly institute a long term occupation.
                          Is this what Al Qaeda is trying to accomplish?
                          Because that's what it's going to get -- a really
                          pissed off US in their backyard for 20, 30, 50 years.
                          I think people underestimate the US.  The US has an
                          itchy trigger finger kind of frontier culture, to
                          this day.  The US also has the industrial and
                          scientific resources to basically impose their will
                          on most of the world, and if the US perceives itself
                          to be in genuine danger, woe be to everyone else.
                            -- ilyas
                          \_ That's all very nice and melodramatic but an
                             assassination cannot produce such a reaction.
                             There (probably) would not be any link to any
                             national entity. Go after the Saudis? America
                             is very cozy with the Saudis and will not just
                             "go and squish" them based on an Al Qaeda attack.
                             \_ Sure, but eventually, Al Qaeda will do enough
                                damage where the US feels genuinely threatened.
                                What then?  How do they hope to win?  It's
                                completely stupid.  You don't want to fight
                                the US.  -- ilyas
                                \_ How do you target al Qaeda?  We already
                                   took out Afghanistan, and are making sure
                                   Iran doesn't get nukes.
                          \_ You do understand that al Qaeda wants a war of the
                             U.S. vs. the Arab world, right?  You do understand
                             that they understand that the U.S. has a
                             superior military capability, and will win in any
                             conventional conflict between nations?  So why
                             then, do they continue?  I don't think it's
                             because "Al Qaeda is dumb".
                             \_ I think it is.  If it truly becomes a
                                free-for-all between US and Arabs, US nukes the
                                Arabs.  Game over.  Al Qaeda is trying to
                                provoke the power that can take on all of the
                                rest of the world put together, most likely.
                                They are irrational religious fanatics obsessed
                                with 'holy war.'  If their wildest dreams come
                                true, this 'holy war' will only get them, and
                                likely most other (innocent) Arabs killed.
                                Al Qaeda is dumb.  -- ilyas
                                \_ Well, you overwrote my post, but let's say
                                   al Qaeda assassinates Bush.  Just how does
                                   the U.S. decide "the Arab world" is the
                                   culprit, and then justify:  "SQUISH the
                                   entire Middle East".
                                   \_ I always love it when people accuse me
                                      of overwriting their posts.  Or writing
                                      stuff on the motd when I am really
                                      asleep.  You must have spyware in my
                                      head or something.  As for the US,
                                      a blow up of two buildings resulting in
                                      the US invading 2 countries.  If serious
                                      attacks continue, the invasions continue.
                                      The 'Arab World' is a hotbed of religious
                                      fundamentalism which results in things
                                      like Al Qaeda.  The US can reasonably
                                      conclude that one way to fight
                                      fundamentalism is take over the Middle
                                      East and institute reforms that way,
                                      rather than wait for history. -- ilyas
                                      \_ Dude, ilyas, you just overwrote my
                                         post again.  How are you editing
                                         the motd?
                                         \_ I also peed in your sink and slept
                                            with yermom. -- ilyas
                                            \_ I ask you again, how are you
                                               editing the motd?  I notice
                                               you were using vi a second ago,
                                               but I have a suspicion you were
                                               using something else earlier
                                               today.  I mean, c'mon, I was
                                               editing this thread, posted
                                               a comment, and 30 seconds later
                                               it's gone and in its place
                                               is your post.  This happened
                                               twice in this very thread.
                                               \_ I always use vi from soda.
                                                  I think your post got
                                                  overwritten because you
                                                  simply were editing during a
                                                  busy time.  Mine get
                                                  overwritten too, for the
                                                  same reason.  Blaming the
                                                  guy you are immediately
                                                  talking to is stupid -- lots
                                                  of conversations are happening
                                                  at the same time.  -- ilyas
                                                  \_ So I have your word of
                                                     honor that you are very
                                                     certain you did not
                                                     overwrite this thread
                                                     today while using vi?
                                                     vi should print warnings;
                                                     what command are you
                                                     using to save?  You aren't
                                                     using :w! I hope.
                                                     \_ I use :w.  Vi gives
                                                        warnings.  -- ilyas
                                                        \_ hm, I guess I don't
                                                           have your word yet.
                                                           \_ No you don't.  But
                                                              feel free to blame
                                                              me anyways.
                                                               -- ilyas
                        \_ No way that 4% of the world's population can enforce
                           its will on the other 96%. Especially when some of
                           that 96% is armed with nukes.
           \_ Yep.  Check out this translation of an interview with Osama's
              former bodyguard in the London Arabic paper Al-Quds Al-Arabi
              http://cryptome.org/alqaeda-plans.htm
           \_ But the problem is that Osama is not Christian.
        \_ For the tinfoil hat crowd, ponder this: Bush assassinates Kerry
           before the election and pins the blame on bin Laden.
           \_ Nonono ... that would be Cheney orchestrating the plot.
              Bush wouldn't have a clue.
2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign] UID:32821 Activity:nil
8/11    Old News: "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.
        They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our
        people, and neither do we."
        \_ Sounds like Quayle.
        \_ A new 'Bushism': We're gonna get us
        \_ That answers the question "Why do you hate America?"
2004/8/11-12 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:32822 Activity:kinda low
8/11    After spending over a day practicing, I can finally hover a
        helicoptor. Battlefield Vietnam is the coolest game out there.
        Much better than 1942. Go EA! Beat MS games!
        \_ I dunno about BFV, but 1942 was only good in multiplayer.  If
           you don't mind absence of toys like loads of vehicles, try
           Call of Duty--it's awesome.  -John
           \_ Agreed! Call of Duty was extremely good in 1 player. --aaron
        \_ What is your login? Let's get on a server together sometime. --aaron
           \_ Mine's "mrfluffy".  I usually play at Eudemonia in Berkeley
                --jeffwong, not op
2004/8/11 [Uncategorized] UID:32823 Activity:nil
8/11    For the Gundam fans in the audience:
        http://akiba.sorobangeeks.com/news_8533.html
2004/8/11-12 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:32824 Activity:high
8/11    If I have two libraries libfoo.so.1 and libfoo.so.2, and I do
        something like 'cc foo.c -lfoo', is there a way to specify which
        version of libfoo the linker should link in, without having a
        libfoo.so symlink to the one I want? Thanks.
        \_ How about "cc foo.c libfoo.so.2"?
           \_ That works if I always have the full path handy, but
              how about a way where the linker will still use its search
              path? Thanks.
        \_ This is usually done with symlinks. Create one and be done.
           \_ This is a crappy hack. I'm not saying your answer is wrong, but
              this is a crappy hack.  Matt Dillon has mentioned variable symlinks
              this is a crappy hack. Matt Dillon has mentioned variable symlinks
              (with a fair amount of hand waving) as a possible solution; are
              there any better ones (say for dynamic linking?) -!op
              \_ A crappy hack that every UNIX OS uses.
              \_ what is a variable symlink?
                 \_ a symlink that can do shell variable expansions?
                    \_ I thought symlink extrapolation is at is os level,
                       not shell?
2004/8/11 [Transportation/Bicycle, Consumer/Camera] UID:32825 Activity:very high
8/10    Since someone asked, here are a few quality images which I could
        easily upload:
        http://gallery.unicyclist.com/album153  -tom
        \_ thanks.
        \_ Hey, these are nice photos. Thanks for putting them up.
           \_ ya very nice except for the one portrait shot. i really like the
                mountain photo.
                \_ What don't you like about the portrait?  -tom
                   \_ it looks soft/fuzzy and doesn't seem to capture any
                      particular emotion. it's a girl wearing a t-shirt. what
                      were your motivations/thoughts about the photo? what
                      made you decide to include w/ the other photos, which i
                      thought were great?
                      \_ I don't have skill with portraits, but I do like that
                         image quite a bit.  Maybe the fact that I know the
                         context is biasing my judgement.  (That's why I
                         asked; portraiture is an area I need to improve
                         on).  -tom
                         \_ photography is largely subjective.  I know people
                            who absolutely love photos which aren't real
                            portraits.  I personally like the photo.
                            She's cute too.
        \_ Ah, man!  I wanted pictures of the man himself!  -tom holub # fan
           \_ http://ls.berkeley.edu/images/news/01/uni-tom.jpg
        \_ thanks for squishing kchang tom. Now please stop squishing the motd
        \_ great pictures.  do you do bike stunts/tricks?
           \_ "bike" stunts, no.  I do some unicycle tricks, but mostly just
              standard mountain bike trails.  -tom
              \_ did you bike all the way there?
                 \_ Up to Porcupine Rim?  Yeah, although a lot of it wasn't
                    rideable in the uphill direction (same with the Slickrock
                    Trail).  I rode almost all of it in the downhill direction.
                      -tom
2004/8/11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:32826 Activity:nil
8/11    http://homepage.mac.com/krousen/Bush%20site/index.html
        \_ URL in motd with no description ought to be deleted.
           \_ Only if it's anti-Kerry.
2004/8/11 [Recreation/Shopping] UID:32827 Activity:moderate
8/11    Um... how do I checkout / check my shopping cart on iTMS?
        No, seriously.  The online help mentions something about a shopping cart
        icon in the source list.  Anybody?  Anybody?  What's the source list?
        \_ The source list is on the left side of the browser.  The shopping
           cart appears as a subdirectory under "Music Store"-- you have to
           click the arrow to show it.  Elapsed time: about 5 minutes. -op
           \_ DAMNIT.  I'm trying to buy "Now Here is Nowhere" by the Secret
              Machines and iTMS is STILL saying the album is "being modified"
              -- after 4 hours.  What is that supposed to mean?
              \_ they're re-recording it in garageband
2004/8/11 [Uncategorized] UID:32828 Activity:nil
8/11    [Commentless URL thwacked.]
2004/8/11 [Reference/Tax] UID:32829 Activity:very high
8/11    Rep. John Linder, R-Ga. has introduced a bill that would replace
        the income tax with a federal sales tax: http://csua.org/u/8jw
        \_ Conservative politicians will always be talking about a sales tax
           or flat tax.  There is a beguiling simplicity and sense of fairness
           behind every individual citizen getting taxed at the same rate, or
           only paying a federal sales tax.  That Bush said recently that the
           sales tax idea was "interesting" does encourage his base, but is
           also a strawman.  When all the liberals go bonkers over that,
           he'll just say, "well, then the tax cuts I have in place aren't all
           that bad, huh?"
           \_ You have a funny sense of fair.
              \_ Take it up with Adam Smith and construct a real argument
                 and get back to us. Learn what marginal utility is as well.
                 \_ Blah, blah, I know economics.  Yeah, well: Wassily
                    Leontief, a Harvard economist and 1973 Nobel winner in
                    economic sciences, once observed: "In no field of empirical
                    enquiry has so massive and sophisticated a statistical
                    machinery been used with such indifferent results."
                 \_ Fair is 0% or 100%.  Anything different and someone gets
                    treated differently.  No need for your personal abuse.
                    When you're really smart, you can come here and insult
                    people.
                    \_ what does 100% mean?
                        \_ Totalitarian communism.
                           \_ This is such a strange answer, I guess I am going
                              to have to bite. What is 0% fair, then?
              \_ I don't think you realize that my post was in support of a
                 progressive tax system.
        \_ Well, although I don't think anything like this would happen, it
           does have the advantage of getting rid of the bloated carcas of the
           IRS.
        \_ This plan is not feasible. See:
           http://www.ncpa.org/edo/bb/2004/20040809bb.htm
        \_ Nobody should pay any taxes. Period.
2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32830 Activity:very high
8/11    George W. Bush sucker-punches a rugby opponent at Yale (photo)
        "George Bush delivers illegal, but gratifying right hook to opposing
        ball carrier."  http://csua.org/u/8jv
        \_ Clinton puffs and cheats.  So?  People still love him.
           \_ It must be nice living in your own reality.
        \_ Yeah he played rough rugby in school.  He should be impeached!
           \_ Punching the guy with the ball == "rough rugby".  HA HA!
        \_ Worse than that, he claims that he played Varsity rugby for
           Yale for four years, when there is no such thing. And he only
           played Rugby at all for one year. He can't remember every single
           exact detail from his life 30 years ago, he is a lying scumbag
           that cannot be trusted with the Presidency!!!
           \_ He only claimed one year, but it was still a lie, yes. Not
              as consequential as lying us into an illegitimate invasion
              and destroying America's soft power/credibility. LOACFAG.
                \_ At least it wasn't lying about getting blowjobs in the
                   oral, err, oval office.
           \_ What about his claims to have played rugby with Mulan Rouge in
              Cambodia!?!
2004/8/11 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:32831 Activity:high
8/11    Is there any way a shell or perl script can can input from keyboard
        without showing it on the screen, such as for a password?
        \_ man getpass/getpassphrase and write a helper program, or look
           into using a curses library or similar.
        \_ stty -echo
2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32832 Activity:high
8/11    Kerry states he was in Cambodia multiple times, and compares
        himself to Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now.  Nevermind
        Kerry's swift boat was 50' long.
        http://instapundit.com/archives/017129.php
        \_ Why do you read Instapundit? The guy has been so wrong so
           many times and he never admits or corrects his mistakes.
        \_ http://www.falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html
           \_ Hitler? Ok.
        \_ Tet 1969 would actually fit his story perfectly. We started
           bombing Cambodia in March 1969, I am sure we sent in some
           guys undercover to do recon just before that. Did Nixon
           make some speech like that during Tet?
           \_ Tet was Jan of 1968.
              \_ Tet is every year. It is a Vietnamese holiday similar
                 to Christmas or Chinese New Year.
                 \_ Oh, a wiseguy, eh?
                    \_ I am just telling you the truth. You can't handle
                       the truth!
2004/8/11 [Computer/Companies/Apple, Computer] UID:32833 Activity:nil
8/11    Do USB or Firewire have any inherent advantages over Power over GigE?
        \_ Broad compatability.
2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32834 Activity:very high
8/11    Wouldn't even Republicans agree that any administration that purposely
        leaks classified info (in the latest case, the identity of a Al Queda
        operative working for us) for political gain, endangering this
        country's security in the process, should be removed? Isn't this on the
        level of Nixon's crimes, if not greater?
        \_ Wouldn't even Democrats agree that any administration that
           purposely sold nuclear secrets to China in exchange for campaign
           money, endangering this country's security in the process, should
           be removed?  Isn't this far above the level of Nixon's crimes, if
           not far far greater?
           \_ Yeah, if such a thing actually happened, it would be. But since
              it is only a fiction of some paranoid loons imagination, I
              not going to worry about it too much. Forget your tinfoil hat?
           \_ Which Clinton administration official admitted that this
              happened?  Condi Rice actually ADMITTED the name was leaked by
              the Bush admin
        \_ It's minor compared to what Nixon and Reagan administrations did.
           Nixon used the CIA to counter the FBI investigating his reelection
           committee's illegal activities. Reagan sold arms to an enemy state
           to fund an illegal war. This said, what Bush's admin did was just
           really stupid, not illegal. The Valerie Plame thing was illegal.
           \_ Nixon/Reagan stuff was clearly wrong ... but did it give aid
              and comfort to a foreign enemy we are at war with?  Scale vs.
              direct effect.
           \_ Why no recrimination for Clinton buying arms from Iran to give
              to the KLA?  So having another Soviet satellite state in
              our hemisphere would have been a good thing?
              \_ 1) Because after nearly 20 years, attempts of normalization
                 of relations with (supposively moderate) Iran through
                 economic mean is not a totally bad idea.
                 \_ The arms tranfers were illicit, just like those in
                    Iran-Contra.
                    \_ Sigh. Context has no meaning to you. -EOT-
                 2) The US Congress had outlawed the sales. Both El Salvador
                 and Nicaragua were economically, politically, and militarily
                 incapable of threatening the US.
                 \_ So a Soviet controlled Central America would have
                    been no problem during the 1980's?
                    \_ The US told these nations "our way or the highway."
                       They took the highway and Cold Warriors struck back.
                       If the US had tried to fix the oppressive (pro-US)
                       regimes, socialism wouldn't have taken root.
              \_ I had never even heard of this charge before. Are you sure
                 it is not one of those "who killed Vince Foster" type
                 Clinton-hater legend?
        \_ SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUT UP! - Bill O'Reilly
           \_ He only says that to people repeating liberal nonsense after
              they've had their turn.
        \_ Only 40% of Americans believe the Bush administration would be
              \_ And when encouraging people not to speak out about the war.
                 And when the son of a man killed on 9/11 tries to point out
                 that the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq.
        \_ Only 38% of Americans believe the Bush administration would be
           capable of that.
           http://i.timeinc.net/time/covers/1101040816/poll/images/poll_2.gif
        \_ No, it's only incompetence that led to the al Qaeda operative's name
           being leaked to the press at an inappropriate time.  Who exactly
           leaked it?  Tom Ridge says he doesn't know.  Rice implies the name
           was purposely released by the administration to press.
           http://csua.org/u/8jx
           \_ It's worse than that. The guy had flipped and was giving the
              Pakistanis viable intelligence, plus feeding Al-Quada trash.
              Knowing that someone had been found drove Al-Quada back
              underground instead of into the hands of authorities.
              \_ I'm just talking about the motive, not the results (which
                 are as severe as you say).  I say incompetence, not politics.
2004/8/11 [Uncategorized] UID:32835 Activity:high
8/11    To the guy who wanted to blind pigeons, what did you eventually descide

        on?
        \_ No one actually answered the question with regard to 5 mW lasers,
           I've got a fake owl now that seems to work so far.
           \_ Does the owl have lasers?
           \_ A 5MW laser would kill the pigeons
2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32836 Activity:high
8/11    so were ANY of the swift boat vet guys actually serving
        on the same boat, as kerry, AT THE SAME TIME?  I saw
        some of them sliming away on the 700 club yesterday,
        and one of them claimed to actually have served with
        kerry, at the same time, on the same boat, and i'm
        not sure if i believe him. - danh
        \_ One was, several others were on different boats in the
           same engagement.
           same engagements.
        \_ Steve Gardner served under Kerry, and never got along with him.
           The rest of Kerry's crewmembers support him.
           http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp
           \_ 7 of them were members of Kerry's 6 man crew at various
              times.  I don't think this set consists of all those
              who served under Kerry.  Kerry's entire chain of
              command is with the Swiftvets and only one of 23
              other officers there supports Kerry.
           \_here's some words from a guy in the chain of command:
             March 2, 1970 evaluation from Admiral Walter F. Schlech:
             ... one of the finest young officers with whom I have
             served in a long naval career.
              \_ "Only 2 of John Kerry's 23 fellow Swift boat commanders
                 from Coastal Division 11 support his candidacy today."
                 2 support him, 15 oppose, 4 are neutral, 2 are dead.
                 As for higher-ups, there is an admiral who definitely doesn't
                 like him.
                 \_ Bush and Cheney were much more heroic in Vietnam,
                    of course.  And who gives a crap what his fellow
                    commanders think?
                    \_ Well, Bush hasn't made his national guard service a
                       central plank in his campaign, whereas Kerry is making
                       \_ and he would like a moron if he did so - danh
                       a big deal out of his having served.
                        \_ It is a big deal -- Remember Clinton the draft
                           dodger? Clinton avoided going to, and that was
                           a strike against him.
              \_ Then only 1 out of 7 members of Kerry's crew oppose his
                 candidacy?
        \_ We've seen a lot of quotes from Swift Boat Veterans For The Truth.
           For balance, let's have one supporting Kerry.  You may understand
           why those who served under him support him:
           "I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the
           pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and
           chaos ... Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever
           have to see, he never lost his cool. I had to sit on my hands
           [after a firefight], I was shaking so hard ... He went to every man
           on that boat and put his arm around them and asked them how they're
           doing. I've never had an officer do that before or since. That's
           the mettle of the man, John Kerry." -- David Alston
2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32837 Activity:high
8/11    Looks like that Swift Boat slander is working real well for
        you guys. Keep it up, please. I am serious:
        http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Presidential_Tracking_Poll.htm
        \_ I'm not interested in slander.  I think Kerry's
           post-Vietnam activies deserve publicity and vetting.
            \_ Cool!  So let's open the book on Bush's war non-record
               and concealment of same non-record, and his use of
               controlled substances.
           \_ I agree. I think the race should mostly be about this,
              but the Republicans have bizarrely fallen for the bait
              Kerry provided for them at the convention...
              \_ So you approve of Kerry and VVAW meeting with the
                 Vietcong and NVA in Paris?  This might be
                 equivalent to today Michael Moore going to meet
                 Osama Bin Laden to negotiate terms of a truce.
                 \_ Not really, but didn't Nixon do the same thing
                    with Kissinger? And Micheal Moore doesn't have
                    the authority to negotiate a truce, anymore than
                    the VVAW did.
2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32838 Activity:nil
8/11    "Afghanistan's interim president, Hamid Karzai, faced questions
        during a news conference ... about the legitimacy of that
        election in light of reports that many voters have registered
        multiple times and may try to vote more than once. 'This is an
        exercise in democracy. Let them exercise it twice!' Karzai
        said. 'We cannot be perfect.'"
        http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040811_1192.html
        \_ "Karzai later hastened to add that voters will have their hands
           marked in ink that will be difficult to remove in an effort to
           prevent them from voting more than once."
           Oh boy, Taliban targets!
2004/8/11 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:32839 Activity:high
8/11    Bush-Meat might give you a new variant of SIV, the primate version of
        HIV: [altered for clarity since idiot OP doesn't know what AIDS is]
        http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996239
        \_ Then don't eat Bush's meat.
        \_ Tim Russert had better get tested, quick!
2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic] UID:32840 Activity:nil
8/11    Yahoo! News - Cow Udder Doping Scandal Hits Australia
        http://csua.org/u/8jy
        Looks like cow beauty contests have stricter standards than human ones.
        \_ Why?  Is udder tampering allowed in Miss America?
           \_ I don't see someone being banned for using saline or silicone.
2004/8/11 [Recreation/Humor] UID:32841 Activity:nil
8/11    Sorry, this is so funny that it has to be copied to the top:
           \_ He only claimed one year, but it was still a lie, yes. Not
              as consequential as lying us into an illegitimate invasion
              and destroying America's soft power/credibility. LOACFAG.
                \_ At least it wasn't lying about getting blowjobs in the
                   oral, err, oval office.
        \_ [I have trimmed your post to make you look smarter.  Your welcome.]
           \_ [I have not corrected your misuse of your/you're to make you
               look dumber.  You're welcome.]
2004/8/11 [Politics] UID:32842 Activity:nil
8/11    Why do soldiers get medals for being captured by the enemy?  Shouldn't
        medals be restricted to good performance?
        \_ I know, it's stupid. Soldiers also get metal for being killed
           by their own stupidity.
           \_ Although it's very frequently "without regard to their own
              safety", it more usually is "while attempting to flank an enemy
              position" or the like instead of "drove his jeep in reverse
              into an allied minefield"
              \_ we should really give soldiers a break
2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32843 Activity:nil
8/11    Is George W. Bush a satanic mass-murderer?
        http://csua.org/u/8k8
2004/8/11 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32844 Activity:nil 84%like:32820
8/11    Al Qaeda plans to assassinate a major western leader when Osama gives
        the go-ahead. http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040811-123531-3824r.htm
        I'll bet anything they're going after Kerry.  If I was bin Laden, the
        \- "we had to incarcerate the candidate to save him"
        last person in the world I'd want as President of the US would be a
        war hero who promised to fight a more 'sensitive war on terror'.  Run,
        John!  Run!
        Hey, this sounds familiar:
        "The goal of the next attack is twofold: to damage the U.S. economy
        and to undermine the U.S. election," the official said. "The view of
        al Qaeda is 'anybody but Bush.' "
        \_ "The one unrelaceable assett for al Quaeda is US FOreign policy",
           if al Qaueda is for "anyone but bush", they are dumber than I
           thought.  Iraq was a christmas present for Osama.
           \_ Sure was. Why go for the Americans near Mecca when we can
              tryfor the U.S. itself ! Committing terrorism is so much
              more effective thousands of miles away from America.
           \_ It's pretty obvious Al Qaeda is dumb. -- ilyas
              \_ What about the scores of pages describing potential targets
                 written in perfect English found in the latest arrest?
                 (e.g., can't get a truck in the garage, drive a limo instead)
                 \_ You are missing the forest for the trees.  There's no doubt
                    Al Qaeda is smart enough to organize 911, etc.
                    Nevertheless, something about the way they are going about
                    their business that strikes me as fundamentally dumb.
                      -- ilyas
                    \_ Targeting a high-profile individual for assassination,
                       when there are so many out there that you can't always
                       protect, is dumb?
                       Please identify what is fundamentally dumb.
                       \_ Any extremist organization is fundementally dumb.
                          If they were smart they wouldn't be extremist.
                       \_ Ok.  Say they succeed.  They assassinate Bush.
                          Or set off a dirty nuke in Los Angeles or something.
                          What will this get them?  America already isn't very
                          happy with the Arab world, and even Arab Americans.
                          Do you realize what will happen?  We will most likely:
                          (a) institute the draft (probably won't be necessary
                          with the volume of volunteers)
                          (b) convert to war footing a la WWII
                          (c) absolutely SQUISH the entire Middle East, and
                              possibly institute a long term occupation.
                          Is this what Al Qaeda is trying to accomplish?
                          Because that's what it's going to get -- a really
                          pissed off US in their backyard for 20, 30, 50 years.
                          I think people underestimate the US.  The US has an
                          itchy trigger finger kind of frontier culture, to
                          this day.  The US also has the industrial and
                          scientific resources to basically impose their will
                          on most of the world, and if the US perceives itself
                          to be in genuine danger, woe be to everyone else.
                            -- ilyas
                          \_ That's all very nice and melodramatic but an
                             assassination cannot produce such a reaction.
                             There (probably) would not be any link to any
                             national entity. Go after the Saudis? America
                             is very cozy with the Saudis and will not just
                             "go and squish" them based on an Al Qaeda attack.
                             \_ Sure, but eventually, Al Qaeda will do enough
                                damage where the US feels genuinely threatened.
                                What then?  How do they hope to win?  It's
                                completely stupid.  You don't want to fight
                                the US.  -- ilyas
                                \_ How do you target al Qaeda?  We already
                                   took out Afghanistan, and are making sure
                                   Iran doesn't get nukes.
                          \_ You do understand that al Qaeda wants a war of the
                             U.S. vs. the Arab world, right?  You do understand
                             that they understand that the U.S. has a
                             superior military capability, and will win in any
                             conventional conflict between nations?  So why
                             then, do they continue?  I don't think it's
                             because "Al Qaeda is dumb".
                             \_ I think it is.  If it truly becomes a
                                free-for-all between US and Arabs, US nukes the
                                Arabs.  Game over.  Al Qaeda is trying to
                                provoke the power that can take on all of the
                                rest of the world put together, most likely.
                                They are irrational religious fanatics obsessed
                                with 'holy war.'  If their wildest dreams come
                                true, this 'holy war' will only get them, and
                                likely most other (innocent) Arabs killed.
                                Al Qaeda is dumb.  -- ilyas
                                \_ Well, you overwrote my post, but let's say
                                   al Qaeda assassinates Bush.  Just how does
                                   the U.S. decide "the Arab world" is the
                                   culprit, and then justify:  "SQUISH the
                                   entire Middle East".
                                   \_ I always love it when people accuse me
                                      of overwriting their posts.  Or writing
                                      stuff on the motd when I am really
                                      asleep.  You must have spyware in my
                                      head or something.  As for the US,
                                      a blow up of two buildings resulting in
                                      the US invading 2 countries.  If serious
                                      attacks continue, the invasions continue.
                                      The 'Arab World' is a hotbed of religious
                                      fundamentalism which results in things
                                      like Al Qaeda.  The US can reasonably
                                      conclude that one way to fight
                                      fundamentalism is take over the Middle
                                      East and institute reforms that way,
                                      rather than wait for history. -- ilyas
                                      \_ Dude, ilyas, you just overwrote my
                                         post again.  How are you editing
                                         the motd?
                                         \_ I also peed in your sink and slept
                                            with yermom. -- ilyas
                                            \_ I ask you again, how are you
                                               editing the motd?  I notice
                                               you were using vi a second ago,
                                               but I have a suspicion you were
                                               using something else earlier
                                               today.  I mean, c'mon, I was
                                               editing this thread, posted
                                               a comment, and 30 seconds later
                                               it's gone and in its place
                                               is your post.  This happened
                                               twice in this very thread.
                                               \_ I always use vi from soda.
                                                  I think your post got
                                                  overwritten because you
                                                  simply were editing during a
                                                  busy time.  Mine get
                                                  overwritten too, for the
                                                  same reason.  Blaming the
                                                  guy you are immediately
                                                  talking to is stupid -- lots
                                                  of conversations are happening
                                                  at the same time.  -- ilyas
                                                  \_ So I have your word of
                                                     honor that you are very
                                                     certain you did not
                                                     overwrite this thread
                                                     today while using vi?
                                                     vi should print warnings;
                                                     what command are you
                                                     using to save?  You aren't
                                                     using :w! I hope.
                                                     \_ I use :w.  Vi gives
                                                        warnings.  -- ilyas
                                                        \_ hm, I guess I don't
                                                           have your word yet.
                                                           \_ No you don't.  But
                                                              feel free to blame
                                                              me anyways.
                                                               -- ilyas
                                        \_ US can nuke the entire Arab world,
                                           but occupying it is beyond US's
                                           ability.  It would bleed the US
                                           to death financially.  But yes,
                                           I agree with you than Islamic
                                           fundamentalism is a dead end.  But
                                           those people think they don't have
                                           another choice, or rather, the
                                           only other choice seems to be
                                           the corrupt crony regimes like
                                           Saudi Arabia, which they want to
                                           overthrow.
                        \_ No way that 4% of the world's population can enforce
                           its will on the other 96%. Especially when some of
                           that 96% is armed with nukes.
           \_ Yep.  Check out this translation of an interview with Osama's
              former bodyguard in the London Arabic paper Al-Quds Al-Arabi
              http://cryptome.org/alqaeda-plans.htm
           \_ But the problem is that Osama is not Christian.
        \_ For the tinfoil hat crowd, ponder this: Bush assassinates Kerry
           before the election and pins the blame on bin Laden.
           \_ Nonono ... that would be Cheney orchestrating the plot.
              Bush wouldn't have a clue.
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