Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:06 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2004/8/6 [Computer/SW] UID:32730 Activity:low
8/6     What is the name of the command that breaks a large file into small
        segements?  Thanks.
        \- split
2004/8/6 [Uncategorized] UID:32731 Activity:low
8/6     Does anyone know if there's an open source library for talking to
        various IM networks?  There was something called libfaim once upon
        a time, but it seems to have disappeared.  Basically, I'd like to
        build a better IM to SMS proxy.  Something like this:
        http://features.engadget.com/entry/8931594493760248
        but bidirectional and transparent.  Does such a beast exist?  At
        present the best option looks like using gaim as a starting point
        -dans
        \_ I think kopete offers a library (or at least a scriptable interface)
2004/8/6 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:32732 Activity:moderate
8/5     How do I close all open applications in OS X with just one keystroke?
        \_ shift-command-Q
        \_ open up a shell, kill -9
           \_ that just kills one app at a time.
              \_ kill -9 -1
           \_ How many keystrokes is that?
        \_ Hit the power button.
2004/8/6 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:32733 Activity:low
8/5     Dear network administrators, I'm just curious what percentage of the
        traffic is http, ftp, ssh, finger, ping, etc? And is it really
        possible to do a successful DoS via finger?
        \_ Depends entirely on what your network does.  Big corporation?
           Internally?  To the Internet?  University?  Carrier?  It varies
           tremendously.  And you can DoS using pretty much anything, if you
           do it enough.  -John
           \-well obviously this is sort of a trivial question for a
             LAN ... if you are an large oil company and are crunching a
             lot of data, maybe it is NFS, maybe it is AFS ... maybe you
             are using computation GRIDS ... but you should probably be
             surprised if it is Quake traffic. As for the internet at large
             which is what i assume you are asking, I havent been following
             the internet measurement area for a while but a few things:
             tcp is +85%. udp is a distant second. the size of flows and
             packets have some interesting distribution properties [e.g.
             obviously a lot of syn/ack/fin/rst "small packets"] as
             well as some directionality properties [hence asymmetric
             bandwidth provisioning makes sense], as well as some time
             of day, day of week effects [which are what you expect ...
             weekends are quieter] and there are some hour of day properties
             but i dont rembmer how geography was factored into those
             measurements. and now for protocols ... yes http traffic is
             something like 75% of all traffic. there is a couple of
             percent DNS background [the percentage has come down a bit
             over the last 10yrs]. ftp as a fraction has come down and
             is now in the single digits. mail is also in the same range
             but i dont remember how this has changed over time since
             spam took off. unsurprsingly ftp transactions are larger
             than email, so the same number of bytes represents much
             fewer transactions. i believe the news background has
             shrunk in percentage terms but dont know what the absolute
             flow volumes are. ssh, telnet rlogin are all noise.
             i dont know much about what i'll call web helper applications
             like streaming audio/video. also i dont know what p2p
             has done to these numbers. i also dont know to what extent
             the public internet is use for online WAN gaming. i doubt
             netrek is king though :-). you can look maybe around the
             CAIDA website ... they might have something up to date,
             look for maybe kc claffy. disclaimer: my numbers are biased
             toward byte volumes, not flows or packet counts. most
             importantly this is pre a lot of p2p take off. there were
             some early trend numbers but i dont know what the picture
             looks like after the napster rollercoaster, the rise of
             gnutella, bittorrent etc. more involved statistical analysis
             of flows is beyond the scope of the motd. if you are interested
             in a narrow question you can send me a note. --psb
             \_ What Partha said, and ditto about specific questions--I mainly
                know about banking/insurance networks (Internet and LAN.)
                Also you may want to differentiate between # sessions and
                # packets/session (as Partha indicated.)  Use something like
                EtherApe on a core L3 switch SPAN port to give you a cute
                graphical overview of what/how much is out there.  In a
                corporate LAN, your highest overhead's bound to be Windows
                fileshare, web & email traffic.  Also depends on what part
                of a network you're looking at (e.g. some nets are dedicated
                server segments, where you might see mainly SQL-type stuff
                going back and forth, etc.)  -John
2004/8/6 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:32734 Activity:nil
8/5     spamassassin 2.64 installed; bugs to mconst.
2004/8/6 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Reference/Law/Court] UID:32735 Activity:very high
8/6     My dad just got biten by a neighbor's dog (maybe some kind of German
        Shepherd) that was not on a leash when my dad went outside to our
        driveway.  It was unprovoked.  The paramedics and police arrived.
        We've a police report.  Is there anything that we can do?  Would
        lawyers take up such small cases?  Can we at least get the owner to
        cover for all of the medical expenses incurred?
        \_ just say put the dog down or i put you down
        \_ Most likely the owner will volunteer to pay for the medical expenses
           for fear of further legal action. And unless your dad sustained
           some serious or permanent injuries, don't bother suing them; it's
           just not worth it.
        \_ Call John Edwards.
           \_ Can you believe that shyster might actually help someone get
              money for their medical expenses!  Has he no sense of decency?
              \_ <Replying to myself>  And to the inevitable "channeling a
                 dead girl" reply:  Yes, he was manipulative.  That's what good
                 lawyers do: manipulate the jury to get a favorable verdict
                 for their client.
                 \_ Tucker Carlson characterized a teenage girl having her
                    intestines sucked out by a faulty pump as a "Jacuzzi case".
                    \_ That reminds me of the clip someone posted a while ago
                       where a crab gets sucked into a hole much smaller than
                       its body, and exploded instantly.
                       \_ You mean?: /csua/tmp/crabvspipe1.mpg
                          \_ Yup.  Disturbing.
                   _/
             For those looking for context here (like me):
             http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2004/07/27/tucker/?source=RSS
        \_ You should contact animal control.
        \_ Judge Judy awarded someone with $3000.  He was bitten by an
           unleashed dog in a park and sustained some relatively minor
           injuries - scratches and bite marks on the side of his body
           and hands.  So: you can take your neighbor to small court.
           It would be helpful if you had a witness who is not family.
           \_ Nice to see the motd has no morals.  Go motd!
              \_ Hey, he asked about lawyers, which implies he's already
                 interested in suing.
              \_ No morals? are you f'ing serious? If your unleashed mangy mutt
                 *attacks* and injures me, damn right you deserve to pay
                 compensation for your negligence.
        \_ Small claims court is made for this kinda stuff. But make sure to
           try and get a settlement from the guy before taking him to court.
        \_ Before you think about suing and lawyers and so on, why don't
           you talk to your neighbor and work something out. It is much
           better to be on good terms with your neighbor than to get a
           few hundred dollars out of him/her. On the otherhand, if your
           neighbor is a jerk, maybe you need to sue.
        \_ His insurace may cover it, which is probably better than a lawsuit.
2004/8/6 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:32736 Activity:moderate
8/6     Journalism at its best: the closest a long article about "Links between
        Prison and AIDS affecting Blacks" gets to prison rape is "Correctional
        health experts say the rampant sexual activity among prisoners
        depicted in television shows like the HBO prison series \"Oz\" is
        exaggerated. But sex in prison certainly occurs."
                http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/06/national/06aids.html?hp
        \_ Two friends of mine argued a case at a debate tournament that
           the way to prevent prison rape was soap on a rope... -John
           \_ DId they win?
           \_ What does soap on a rope do?
              \_ Harder to accidentally drop.  Bending over to pick up your
                 soap in a communal shower leads to...
                 \_ Why not just bend at the knees?
                    \_ If you prefer oral to rear-entry, sure.
2004/8/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32737 Activity:insanely high
8/6     Whoever posted that Norman Mailer dialogue -- It is actually a
        decent read. It shows Mailer excercising more subtilty of judgement
                                                      \_ how subtle!
        than I thought him capable of.
        \_ The observation about Rumsfeld was something that resonated with
           me immediately. -- ulysses
           \_ 1. Donald Rumsfeld is a mammal.
              2. Donald Rumsfeld fights ALL the time.
              3. The purpose of Donald Rumsfeld is to flip out and kill people.
        \_ Anybody still have the link?
           \_ http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/rnc/9574
              Now just don't say I never did you anything. -- ulysses
        \_ Oh yea, perpetual America hater and 60's leftist ingrate.
           Cause celebre for Jack Henry Abbott and Mumia.  I can't
           wait for these 60's leftovers to die off.
           It's as though they didn't do enough damage to the country
           in the 60's.
           \_ you miss the day when you don't have to share anything
              with colored people, don't you?
              \_ The south was solidly democrat in the 60's and
                 70's.  Right back at ya!
           I counted the word 'feel' 12 times in that article -
           appropriate or what?
2004/8/6 [Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:32738 Activity:high
8/6     I'm trying to find the true dependencies that a particular shared
        object has on other shared objects. Are there existing tools that
        can do this automatically? Otherwise I was thinking of just using
        nm and grepping out the undefined references and then correlating
        that to the defined symbols in the other object files. Thanks
        for any tips.
        \_ like ldd, or are you trying to find out exactly which functions?
           \_ yeah, sorry. i mean actual symbols. if you ask the compiler
              to link in spurious shared libraries (that your other
              library doesn't really depend on), i think it will. so ldd
              won't give an accurate answer in that case.
        \_ nm + perl is your best bet
              \_ nm -u
2004/8/6 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:32739 Activity:nil
8/6     Switch to linux:
        http://www.ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=54
2004/8/6 [Computer/Rants] UID:32740 Activity:nil
8/6     Show this to management the next time they start talking about Indian
        outsourcing: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17700
2004/8/6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:32741 Activity:high
8/6     Ilyas, I see you're posting today.  Are you also enforcing your
        arbitrary "thread deletion order" rule you imposed on the rest of
        us on Wednesday?  If this gets deleted, should I purge the rest of
        the motd?  -meyers
        \_ Out of curiousity, when does your script say I posted last?
           I bet it's wrong.  -- ilyas
           \_ The meyers is never wrong!  He may cry like a litle girl at the
              slightest provocation, but do not dis the meyers!      -mice
              \_ Ahem.  I did not use a script to guess your last post, but
                 saw you were part of an active discussion.  My questions
                 are still unanswered, ilyas.  -meyers
                 \_ Which discussion is that?  I see no posts of mine on the
                    motd now except replies to you.  As for your questions:
                    If I see threads I care about deleted out of order, I will
                    delete all threads up to most recent deleted.  This is not
                    something I did on Wednesday as an experiment, I will
                    continue to do it (if I am around), unless someone gives me
                    a better way to fight thread modifying assholes.  I only
                    do it if I have absolute proof the thread was modified
                    maliciously (i.e. if I saw it make it to /etc/motd, and
                    then changed later).  I do not use any scripts.  What _you_
                    do on the motd is none of my business, however please try
                    to be a good motd citizen. -- ilyas
                    \_ Since this "only delete the oldest thread" is a rule
                       from you and only enforced by you, how does this make
                       you less of a prick for deleting everyone else's stuff
                       than the person who deleted a thread you were
                       interested in?  I didn't accuse you of using a script
                       to do it.  You had some entries in a tax discussion
                       which has already been purged.  -meyers
                       \_ You are free to think I am a prick.  I just don't
                          want people deleting stuff they don't like, that
                          other people enjoy.  I can find no other feasible way
                          of discouraging this.  If you have one, let me know.
                          Namecalling will get you nowhere, I am afraid.
                            -- ilyas
                          \_ So to discourage random thread deletion, you
                             delete threads at random!  Way to go!  -meyers
                             \_ Not at random.  But whatever.  I am not sure
                                what you were trying to accomplish starting
                                this thread.  It's clear you aren't interested
                                in a debate in good faith.
                                  -- ilyas
                                \_ Random as in your own arbirary selection
                                   based on some odd defintion of "freshness".
                                   According do you, an active thread on the
                                   bottom of the motd is more stale than
                                   one above with no responses.  -meyers
                                   \_ You are right, it's not perfect.  What
                                      do you suggest?  Incidentally, I only
                                      delete when an 'active' thread gets
                                      deleted.  I don't recall every nuking
                                      anything after a thread with no
                                      responses in the middle of the motd
                                      was removed.  Yes, it's a fuzzy line,
                                      what did you expect? -- ilyas
                                      \_ You can't restore the thread?  How
                                         many csua types run motd archivers?
                                         You could restore your thread from
                                         any of them.  Why delete threads
                                         interesting to other people?  Does
                                         it make you feel better?  -meyers
                                         \_ It doesn't.  I don't feel bad.  In
                                            fact, I am not really emotionally
                                            invested in the motd very much.
                                            However, restoring the thread
                                            does not give impetus to the
                                            thread deleting fuckers to stop
                                            doing it.  You seem to assume
                                            people who delete threads do it
                                            out of goodwill, whereas in my
                                            experience most people who nuke
                                            stuff in the middle do it out of
                                            malice, or because they feel the
                                            topic doesn't belong on the motd,
                                            etc.  I am trying to create
                                            conditions where motd becomes,
                                            roughly, a FIFO data structure.
                                            It seems to be a reasonable
                                            compromise. -- ilyas
                                            \_ So, since you get censored, it's
                                               only fair for you to be able to
                                               drag in other people's threads
                                               and censor them?  How does this
                                               make sense again?  -meyers
                                               \_ Your argument is going
                                                  around in circles.  I stated
                                                  already my reasons.  If you
                                                  have a better course of
                                                  action, other than 'do
                                                  nothing', let me know.  At
                                                  least now if people fuck with
                                                  threads, they know motd will
                                                  likely not remain fun for
                                                  very long.  -- ilyas
                                                  \_ I'm just looking for a
                                                     little consistency in
                                                     your position here.  Why
                                                     not just nuke the whole
                                                     motd instead of imposing
                                                     your arbitrary deletion
                                                     ordering rule?  -meyers
                                                     \_ You are right, I could
                                                        nuke the whole motd,
                                                        too.  Would you rather
                                                        I did that? -- ilyas
                                                        \_ Stop it, both of
                                                           you!  Can't you
                                                           see you're
                                                           tearing this
                                                           family APART?!
                                                           -geordan
                                                        \_ There's strong motd
                                                           tradition of just
                                                           nuking the whole
                                                           thing. -meyers
                                                           \_ Thanks for your
                                                              feedback.  It
                                                              seems I have
                                                              misjudged you.
                                                              Heh.  -- ilyas
        \_ Did either of you delete the tax thread?  Fuck you if you did.
           \_ I haven't ever deleted a thread on the motd.  -meyers
2004/8/6 [Uncategorized] UID:32742 Activity:nil
8/6     Damage undone.
2004/8/6 [Recreation/Humor] UID:32743 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
8/6     http://www.lowmorale.co.uk/creep/flash/lm_creep_(FLASH).swf
        From BB yesterday, just a cool flash animation.
2004/8/6 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32744 Activity:high
8/6     Hey, where's Bush-will-win-because-of-the-economy guy?
        http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/ap/2004/08/06/ap1494858.html
        \_ Wow, 32k new Walmart slaves! Meanwhile, ~170k new workers
           entered the job market during that same month. --aaron
        \_ Also, Bush-California-landslide guy:
     http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/08/06/BAGT383NU21.DTL
        \_ Yawn, this keeps coming up.  The reply is always the same.  There
           will be 3 debates, then we get a final poll which will probably
           show the candidates are still within the margin of error, then we
           vote and find out who the President is.  Nothing else matters
           between now and then unless there's some catastrophe or aliens
           land or something.
           \_ Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
              \_ You slime!  Kang has my vote!
                 \_ I believe I'll vote for a third-party candidate.
           \_ Are you willing to bet on Bush winning California?  -tom
              \_ I never said he'd win CA.  I'm willing to bet that there will
                 be 3 debates, a flurry of final polling, a vote, and then
                 we'll have a President for 4 years.  Are you willing to bet
                 on Kerry winning Texas?
                 \_ no, but I never predicted that he would.  Some anonymous
                    MOTD coward predicted that Bush would win CA in a
                    landslide.  -tom
                    \_ I'm pretty sure that was a troll.  I thought it
                       was then too.  Get over it.
2004/8/6 [Politics/Domestic] UID:32745 Activity:high
8/6     Regarding the Mailer interview: below: who is he?  I don't want any
        trolling, but what is the gut association that your average educated
        American has with the man?
        J. Edgar Hoover : Cross Dressing
        Joe McCarthy : HUAC / Communist Witch Hunt
        :: Norman Mailer : __________________
        Liberal and conservative reactions, please.
        \_ he dated Marilyn Monroe for a while, right? That's about all I know
           about him. Oh yeah, and he wrote some plays too?
           \_ Is this a troll or are you actually this illiterate?
              \_ WTF should I care about some Dead White Guy
                 \_ Best laugh I've had all day.
        \_ He's a writer/novelist. Wrote _The Naked and the Dead_
           stabbed his wife (in a drunken state -- he didn't kill her),
           won a Pulitzer Prize for _Armies of the Night_. Also a boxing
           fan. He got into a fight with Gore Vidal at a party once and,
           of course, knocked Vidal down, to which Vidal responded,
           "I see words fail you once again, Norman".
           \_ This is exactly the stuff I'm looking for.  Thx. -op
        \_ Who is Normal Mailer and why should I care?
        \_ McCarthy was in the senate and hence not part of HUAC.
           \_ He held his own hearings in the Senate based on HUAC's precedent.
           \_ It's how he feels, not what he thinks.
              \_ I doubt "he" feels anything about HUAC or would even recognize
                 the acronymn.
                 \_ Since he used it, he probably feels something about it and
                    likely knows what it means.
                    \_ Thank you, yes I do know a bit about HUAC and I'm looking
                       for impressions of how Mailer fit into the zeitgeist of
                       the middle 20th C.
2004/8/6 [Uncategorized] UID:32746 Activity:nil
8/6     There will be no peace until W Hung's 15 minutes conclude.
2004/8/6 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:32747 Activity:moderate
8/6     I'm sending a reminder mail out with cron.  So I used the:
        mail recpiant@nowhere.com < email         command.
        This works but I don't get a subject.  How can I send my email
        with a subject?  No, this isn't Spam.  -jrleek
        \_ mail -s "Make money fast" recpiant@nowhere.com < email
           \_ but make sure you are using /usr/ucb/mail since /usr/bin/mail
              doesn't have the -s option
           \_ as if any spammer is doing that.
              \_ Well I needed a sample subject line so I decided to make fun
                 of his assertation that he wasn't spammming.
2004/8/6 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:32748 Activity:nil
8/6     Right wing nutter, Michelle Malkin, on the war path against Japanese
        with her new book.
        http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/books/185162_vcenter06.html
        \_ A very good argument can be made for interning aliens
           during a war.
           \_ Yeah, but not citizens.
              \_ Almost all of the adults were not US citizens.
                 Some of their children were, but a portion of
                 these held dual citizenship.
                 Internment has significant historical precedent,
                 dating all the way back to the Enemy Alien Act of 1798.
                 \_ Still waiting for a cite on "almost all weren't citizens"
2004/8/6 [Uncategorized] UID:32749 Activity:high
8/6     RIP Rick James
        \_ Now enjoy yourself.
        \_ I'm Rick James bitch!
2004/8/6 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:32750 Activity:high
8/6     On Linux, how can I find out how much space a directory takes up?
        (Including all it's files and subdirs, etc.)
        \_ du -sk .  -tom
        \_ try windirstat (ok, it's not linux), it's awesome!!
           \_ on Linux we just take such things for granted
              (hint, du -k | sort -rn )
              \_ windirstat is a lot more advanced than du -k. come on, this is
                 no longer the 80s.
        \_ For each file, type ls -l.  Copy that down in notepad.exe.  Then
           write a perl script to take the input you save in notepad.exe,
           put a plus sign "+" inbetween the numbers and pipe it through the
           'bc' command, take the output from 'bc' and print it out, send a
           fax of the photocopy of your printout to your boss's secretary
           asking her to ask him to approve the numbers, and don't forget that
           at each stage you should have the security department double check
           everything so you're not in a state of policy violation.
        \_ ~jameslin/bin/dirstat is a lame awk script I made awhile back to
           calculate this. --jameslin
2004/8/6-8 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:32751 Activity:moderate
8/6     Are there any windows program that would split files/directories
        by certain size? Let's say I have a few directories containing
        5gb of data. Any programs that would group them into 700mb
        chunks (pick files until they get to 700mb, then begin next
        chunk) so that I can burn them onto CD? DVD is not an option,
        I want to know if there are ways to break them into chunks...
        something that may works with nero perhaps. thanks.
        \_ burntothebrim? http://bttb.sourceforge.net
           \_ this application failed to start because wnaspi32.dll was not
              found.....? wth? this is windows xp...
              \_ Do you have ASPI drivers for your CD drives?
                 \_ This is my work computer, maybe that's why. will try
                    again at home. thanks.
              \_ http://bttb.sourceforge.net/Help/bttb_faq.html
        \_ Try http://downloads.com in the CD management section.  Programs like this
           were written a long time ago for floppies.  I've seen the same thing
           for CDs.
        \_ Here's a DOS app I wrote several years ago: ~yuen/temp/bsplit.zip.
           You can unzip and run the .com or the .exe, or you can compile the
           .c yourself if you worry about viruses.  --- yuen
        \_ install cygwin, then use tar and split
           \_ this is too much trouble. I need my cd to be able to use as is
              with the minimum amount of software needed. No one that I'll
              be giving the CD to understands what a tar file is. ;)
              In case you are wondering, I need to burn those jpg files on to
              CDs and give to relatives.
              \_ WinZip can open tar files, they don't need to understand
                 anything.
        \_ zip supports multivolume archives. you can just create a big
           archive where each piece is about 700 MB. winzip should be able to
           extract them.
2004/8/6 [Reference/Tax] UID:32752 Activity:nil
8/6     The tax thread was active.  Why was it deleted?
2004/8/6 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:32753 Activity:high
8/6     We do it to ours, we do it to theirs:
        http://csua.org/u/8hx
        \_ They are highly expendable.
2004/8/6-8 [Consumer/Camera] UID:32754 Activity:very high
8/6     What picture resolution do you usually use for your digital camera
        and why? For sharing 1024x768 is more than sufficient, and I rarely
        go up to 2000x???? because I don't print posters
        \_ since i have a 1GB CF card, i take RAW pictures on my Canon, which
           is like 2276x1something. i send pix @ 800x600, which seems reasonable
          is like 2276x1something. i send pix @ 800x600, which seems reasonable
           enough.
        \_ I run my 21" desktop at 1280x1024 usually so never larger than that.
        \_ Always take picture at largest resolution, then shrink them down
           before sending to friends. You will thank yourself years down the
           road as your photo becomes more precious and display technology
           continues to improve.
           \_ Good point.  --21" monitor guy
           \_ Agreed.  For 99% of your images, it won't matter, but for those
              rare, spectacular images, you'll kick yourself if you're not
              able to blow them up because you were trying to save $80 on
              flash cards.  -tom
              \_ You need to improve your photography skill tom. :)
                 \_ You need to improve your critical eye.  -tom
                    \_ Tom, can we see some of your "rare, spectacular images"
                       \_ http://www.whitehouse.com
                       \_ This was a serious request.  I'd like to see some
                          of your pictures representing photographic quality,
                          not just "here is a picture of Grizzley Peak Road."
              \_ But, tom, do you still believe that using JPEG as a format
                 is the way to go instead of the camera's raw mode or TIFF?
                 \_ I think RAW has some advantages in the camera->computer
                    transfer, but it doesn't work as a long-term storage
                    format, because RAW is not a standard.  TIFF also has
                    standardization problems, and there isn't a preceptible
                    visual difference between uncompressed TIFF and top-quality
                    JPEG, so it's not worth the hassle and size of dealing with
                    TIFF.  -tom
                    \_ ever do complex photo manipulation?  JPG kills that.
                    JPEG's quantization produces numerous low bit differences
                       that just throws it all off.
                       \_ How do you define "complex photo manipulation"?
                          I certainly tweak my photos in Photoshop all the
                          time, and haven't noticed any problems.  -tom
                       \_ How about PNG instead of say TIFF or RAW?  lossless
                          compression format.  --Jon
                          \_ Maybe I am missing something, but for storage,
                             why not just zip the file? -- ilyas
        \_ I shoot all of my pictures in raw mode.  Why throw away data
           your camera gives you?  I also use multiple 512MB CF cards instead
           of one mondo 4GB card; I can back up each 512MB card to a cd and
           then process them later.  -meyers
           \_ Let's hope you can open those raw files in some app 20 years
              down the road. ;)
              \_ If I really wanted to, I could trivally convert them to
                 36MB tiff files.  When I switch to a photo editor that
                 doesn't support the RAW format of my camera, I might do
                 just that (and write my images to some higher capacity
                 medium).  -meyers
                 \-let's state the obvious: the resolution and mode of shooting
                   obviously depends on the circumstances. if i am shooting
                   something live, i will shoot digital on continuous.
                   because of buffering and sheer volume, this is not
                   reasonable to do at +50meg per image ... unless maybe
                   you do a short burst and edit on the spot. also in high
                   contrast situations, also you are probably going to come
                   away with a better picture by shooting 5 lower #bits
                   pix and braketing a lot. face it ... you are shooting
                   at a bbq or picnic, or at a backyard party or a touch
                   football game in the park ... dont shoot 5megapixel TIFF.
                   nobody will care about those picture that much.
                   same for shooting with a long zoom and no tripod or medium
                   quality lens [e.g. when i was shooting covertly at stern
                   grove with at 300mm of live action].
                   grove at 300mm of live action].
                   on the other hand, you wake up before dawn and hike
                   to a spot in Yosemite Valley to shoot the early morning
                   light hitting the Wall of Early Morning Light on El Cap,
                   consider shooting at your best, lossless format ...
                   link:csua.org/u/8i1 i suppose you ought to look up
                   one of the web pages that advises how many pixels you
                   ought to aim for to print at various sizes, for those
                   rare pictures that will hit paper. n.b. i dont  do heavy
                   digital modification. if you do, YMMV. --psb
        \_ I shoot fine jpg (3072x2048, 180 dpi) on my digital rebel. I
           find that this gives me the best results to work with when
           trying to crop/scale the image down to 1680x1050 (my 20"
           cinema display's native resolution).
        \_ I save my canon photo's in both raw format and hi-res jpeg.
           storage mediums are cheap nowadays.
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:06 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>