Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:03 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2004/8/3 [Uncategorized] UID:32649 Activity:very high
8/3     Where the hick do you post these days to find some student programmers?
        Career center's no help.  Maybe I should just post flyers around Soda
        Hall?
        \_ Wouldn't the UCB career center be good for throwing students your
           way?
           \_ When has the UCB career center been good for ANYTHING? --chris
        \_ Maybe hook up with the engineering dept?  They used to hold job
           fairs for undergrad students.  --chris
        \_ ucb.cs.jobs?  That will filter out people who think WWW is the only
           thing on the internet.
           \_ Is jobs a new top-level domain?  It doesn't work when I type
              that URL into IE.
2004/8/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32650 Activity:very high
8/3     Teresa Heinz is too much of a bitch
        \_ Apparently you missed out on Nancy Reagan.
        \_ A rich Republican one from South Africa no less. Nancy Reagan
           was actually liked. Kerry's okay, but if he can get along with
           that bitchy Republican wife then you have to wonder how strong
           his principles are. She's not that hot either.
           \_ sugar mommy
           \_ As they say about porn stars: its all about the money, honey.
              And just because Nancy was "liked" doesn't mean she wasn't
              a crazy beeyotch.  Have you ever seen the clips of the "Just
              Say No" speech?
           \_ Do you seriously think that Laura Bush is hotter?
        \_ No, Nancy Reagan was an EVIL BITCH.  Teresa Heinz is a bitch on
           the side of GOOD, that is, if she were a man, she stands for
           something, and won't take your stupid crap.  Now, if you imagine
           Dubya as female, Georgina Bush would just be a stupid, drunk bitch.
                \_ your republican talking point email wasn't that
                   funny today
        \_ I like Teresa Heinz very much.  She speaks frankly and doesn't
           pretend to be someone other than herself, unlike most American
           politicians who wears many masks.
           \_ I agree, she's not pretending to be insane, she really is!
              \_ kind of like bush being dumb?
              \_ why do you think she is insane?
                 \_ All Demoncraps are insane, by definition.
                    \_ Demoncraps?  I bow to your debate skills.
        \_ you prefer a stepford wife like laura bush, with her fake smile?
           \_ How about someone who is not a Republican senator's wife who
              got all of her money from an evil corporation?
              \_ What's evil about condiments?
                \_ Its not like she's from DeBeers.
                \_ Ignorant slut! Don't you know the cruel exploitative history
                   of Heinz ketchup? The tomato slave gangs, the Mexican
                   "ketchup coup" in 1971 (covered up by the liberal media of
                   course), those frustrating glass bottles... and Heinz was
                   a Nazi. And later a communist.
                   \_ At least he wasn't a commie-nazi -McBain
        \_ My brother roomed with Chris Heinz freshman year college.
           Privileged information says she's not all that bright and definitely
           not a nice person.
        \_ What about Hillary?
2004/8/3 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:32651 Activity:high 76%like:32656
8/3     Orange alert info pre-dates 9/11
        http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/03/politics/03intel.html
        http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=US&cat=Terrorism
        officials "reported that they had not yet found concrete evidence that
        a terror plot or preparatory surveillance operations were still under
        way."
        \_ Okay.  What should we conclude from that?
           \_ That the orange alert is politically timed?
           \_ That the timing is, again, dubious.  Old information trotted
              out after a major event for the other side.
              \_ It's not old information.  The files were updated *this* year.
                 Furthermore, 9/11 was planned for years.  So it's NEW
                 information to us, and the fact that some was originally
                 planned years ago doesn't simply mean that it might be
                 outdated, but that it might be close to fruition.
                 \_ Be nice to the op.  I don't think he's very good at
                    reading comprehension.
                    \_ No such thing as facts, only an interpretation of the
                       facts, huh?  Its pretty funny to watch the freepers try
                       to defend the credibility of Tom Ridge as it approaches
                       singularity.
                       \_ What are you talking about?  The NYT article
                          makes it pretty clear what was going on.  Just
                          because the info is a few years old, doesn't
                          mean it's out-of-date.
                          \_ No, but it's not news.  The announcement is for
                             areas that are already in an elevated state of
                             alert.  This was yet another "we're still doing
                             stuff" announcement.  Also, by virtue of predating
                             9/11, any surveillence from then would be more
                             or less useless because we've changed and improved
                             the security measures... right?
        \_ Hilarious.  Every major news outlet is carrying this story in one
           form or another...except for Fox News.  Their headline is "lady
           liberty reopens to public."  The story doesn't seem to appear
           anywhere on their site.
           \_ So there really *is* a news bias?
           \_ Informed. Powerful. Huge Penis.
              \_ could someone please explain the HUGE, TAX FREE PENIS thing?
                 what is that a reference to?
                 \_ In re: Ann Coulter it's a reference to the fact that some
                    motder(s?) like her and the only plausible reason for
                    liking a woman who admires Joe McCarthy is that they want
                    to have sex with a reasonably hot arch-conservative, so
                    the retort is "Oh!  Your penis is so BIG and TAX FREE!".
                    \_ So you're saying this originated on the motd?
                    \_ Nice straw man.
2004/8/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32652 Activity:high
8/3     What's up with the frenzy of freeper links lately?
        \_ Desperation.
           \_ Does that explain the anti-Bush links too?
              \_ At least the anti-Bush links are on the right side.
                 \_ No, they're on the left-side.
        \_ I must have missed them.  Where are the "freeper" machines?
2004/8/3 [Uncategorized] UID:32653 Activity:nil 66%like:32657
8/2     THE MEN BEHIND EDWARDS
        http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/001388.html
        and why are jobs going overseas?
2004/8/3 [Uncategorized] UID:32654 Activity:nil
8/3     Origin of the "Why Do You Hate America?" meme?
        http://salon.com/comics/tomo/2002/04/01/tomo/index.html
2004/8/3 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:32655 Activity:high
8/3     Solaris question.  How come after catting .cshrc, the atime
        doesn't change?  Something in NFS?  I dont see any obvious
        NFS option to control this.  The file is on a netapp.
        \_ is noatime set? it's an NFS option that prevents that.
           \_ It doesnt appear to be set in the automouter map.
              Can it be set on the netapp itself?
        \_ Yes, there is a per volume option called no_atime_update
           that can be set on the filer itself.  This is mainly for
           people who are really pounding the volume who could use
           the extra performance boost of not updating for each access
           of a file.  -rollee
2004/8/3 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:32656 Activity:nil 76%like:32651
8/3     Orange alert info pre-dates 9/11
        http://csua.org/u/8fl
        officials "reported that they had not yet found concrete evidence that
        a terror plot or preparatory surveillance operations were still under
        way."
        \_ Okay.  What should we conclude from that?
           \_ That the orange alert is politically timed?
           \_ That the timing is, again, dubious.  Old information trotted
              out after a major event for the other side.
              \_ It's not old information.  The files were updated *this* year.
                 Furthermore, 9/11 was planned for years.  So it's NEW
                 information to us, and the fact that some was originally
                 planned years ago doesn't simply mean that it might be
                 outdated, but that it might be close to fruition.
                 \_ Updated in January.  Six months ago.  Hello, how is that
                    news? Are you saying that after all of the intel reforms,
                    it still takes 6 months to decipher intel?
                 \_ Be nice to the op.  I don't think he's very good at
                    reading comprehension.
                    \_ No such thing as facts, only an interpretation of the
                       facts, huh?  Its pretty funny to watch the freepers try
                       to defend the credibility of Tom Ridge as it approaches
                       singularity.
                       \_ What are you talking about?  The NYT article
                          makes it pretty clear what was going on.  Just
                          because the info is a few years old, doesn't
                          mean it's out-of-date.
                          \_ No, but it's not news.  The announcement is for
                             areas that are already in an elevated state of
                             alert.  This was yet another "we're still doing
                             stuff" announcement.  Also, by virtue of predating
                             9/11, any surveillence from then would be more
                             or less useless because we've changed and improved
                             the security measures... right?
        \_ Hilarious.  Every major news outlet is carrying this story in one
           form or another...except for Fox News.  Their headline is "lady
           liberty reopens to public."  The story doesn't seem to appear
           anywhere on their site.
           \_ So there really *is* a news bias?
           \_ Informed. Powerful. Huge Penis.
              \_ could someone please explain the HUGE, TAX FREE PENIS thing?
                 what is that a reference to?
                 \_ In re: Ann Coulter it's a reference to the fact that some
                    motder(s?) like her and the only plausible reason for
                    liking a woman who admires Joe McCarthy is that they want
                    to have sex with a reasonably hot arch-conservative, so
                    the retort is "Oh!  Your penis is so BIG and TAX FREE!".
                    \_ So you're saying this originated on the motd?
                       \_ Yeah, I am pretty sure it did.
                    \_ Nice straw man.
                       \_ I don't think this means what you think it does.
                          Use a dictionary.
2004/8/3 [Uncategorized] UID:32657 Activity:high 66%like:32653
8/2     THE MEN BEHIND EDWARDS
        http://csua.org/u/8fm
        and why are jobs going overseas?
        \_ Dude, this is the motd, not AOL.
2004/8/3 [Health/Eyes] UID:32658 Activity:nil
8/3     Anybody noticed Steve Jobs' glasses?  He wears the rimless kind with
        round lenses.  I'm in love with those glasses and I've been trying
        to find them.  There are plenty of rimless frames out there but
        I haven't been able to find one that has ROUND lenses just like
        Steve's.  If you know of one, please let me know.  Thanks.
           -steve jobs #1 fan
2004/8/3 [Uncategorized] UID:32659 Activity:nil
8/3     why did it take so long for heinz to start using squirtable plastic
        ketchup bottles as opposed to the old glass bottles?
        \_ Ketchup = republican , mustard = Democrat
        \_ She's more used to rigid things and she jerks better than she
           squeezes.
        \_ The narrow glass bottles were a gimmick to convince people that
           ketchup was thicker than other brands.  A plastic squeeze bottle
           would defeat that.
2004/8/3 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:32660 Activity:nil
8/3     I bured a backup for a music CD about 3-4 years ago on an imation
        CD-R.  Now the backup has lost 2 tracks and the rest is filled with
        noise, while the original is still fine.  How come CD-R has such short
        lifespan?  I always kept it in shaded and cool place.  Now, what media
        should I used to keep backup of my data?
2004/8/3 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:32661 Activity:nil
8/3     "IBM to Build Supercomputer for U.S. Army"
        http://www.csua.org/u/8fn (Yahoo! News)
        1186 machines, ~2300 processors, runs Linux.
        \_ There's one contract for AMD Opterons, there's another contract
           for Intel Nocona (64-bit Prescott) processors.  Goddamn, the Intel
           cluster is going to burn up the building when all the CPUs hit 100%.
2004/8/3 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:32662 Activity:very high
8/3     Doom 3 is fun and pretty, but Half Life 1 and System Shock 2 both
        had more "wow".  Doom 3 feels like a console port, what with the
        blocky levels, blocky human models, weak weapons, and other
        intangibles.  Although it has its weaknesses (especially with
        stocking enemies in illogical places for scripted ambushes -- you
        always need to turn your back since they'll just create a monster
        somewhere without opening a secret door or drawing a teleport
        effect), Doom 3 is ultimately a game you will want to play and come
        back to for the next level.  Despite its negative points, go buy it
        now now now.
        (Side note:  They had the level designer for Doom 1 come back as
        lead level designer for Doom 3 -- it definitely shows.  You'll know
        what I mean when you play, and not in a good way.)
        \_ Is it true there's a code to load the old version of Doom?
        \_ What quality setting were you using?  Supposeadly the models look a
           lot smoother if you don't compress the normal maps.
           \_ High.  When I say blocky models, all the characters are football
              players who fill up most of the corridor, even the scientists.
              I also forgot that this will be an X-Box supported game.  And
              it totally shows (everything I've written).  Yet, it's still fun.
        \_ Don't you find it really dark? I could hardly see anything. The
           only reason it was playable on my computer (AthlonXP 2500+, 9800)
           was that most of the time the gpu was sticking black pixels on
           the screen.
           \_ I set my gamma at about 40% (80% was too much) and played in
              the dark, and that's fine.  As for frame rate, 1024x768 on
              my Athlon 64 3200+ with Radeon 9600 XT is fine on High; my
              younger brother has a Pentium 4 2.26 with 9600, and he's fine
              on High as well.  What's really, really annoying is the
              stuttering when a door opens and the new textures for that guy
              who's about to waste you need to load -- try this:
              http://csua.org/u/8fq
        \_ Another point, Doom 3 feels like it is targeted at 13-year-olds,
           whereas the two other games I mentioned and most good RPGs
           feel like they are targeted at 16-year-olds. -op
           \_ Good RPGs are targeted for mature teenagers and old people.
              Youngins these days think diablo is an rpg.  *sigh*.  -- ilyas
              Consider the average age of people posting on the wizardry 8
              forums.  Youngins these days think diablo is an rpg.  *sigh*.
                -- ilyas
2004/8/3-4 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:32663 Activity:high
8/3     How are you folks with NetApps backing them up? Dump? NFS? NDMP?
        Which software? Legato, Veritas, something else? Would you buy the
        same software again? I use Legato and I'm less than thrilled.
        \_ NetBackup (which uses NDMP) works pretty well if you can dedicate
           a drive just to it. That is, if you have a library with 4 drives,
           1 drive must be dedicated to NDMP clients
        \_ Buy 2, mirror.  Put a third off site.  Mirror.
2004/8/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32664 Activity:nil
8/3     To the guy who claimed Bush can release some gaurd duty records by
        signing something, do you have a reputable link for that?  It's
        the first I've heard of it.
2004/8/3 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32665 Activity:very high
8/3     Oh wow, a politics purge.  You're an asshole.
        \_ I second that.
        \_ The politics on the motd are something like 95% noise 5% signal.
           Everytime someone tries to point out the truth (at any place in the
           political spectrum) he's drowned out by inanity.  It's truly sad,
           IMO.  But as a result, I'm not crying when the political threads get
           nuked. -emarkp
                \_ aren't you the guy who deletes swearing?  don't you have
                   a couple of kids you should be teaching how to sharpen
                   an ax instead?
           \_ 1) fuck you.
              2) I know you're responsible for some of the purges.
              \_ I won't ask you how you "know" -- I see far more claims about
                 people knowing than are likely true.  Yes, I've done my fair
                 share of purging, typically when the garbage ratio goes too
                 high, when factual responses get repeatedly deleted, or the
                 thread gets partially deleted.  And?  -emarkp
                 \_ I don't think it's reasonable for you to appoint yourself
                    the arbiter of motd political-thread 'accepatbility'.
                    It's often interesting and informative to see what people
                    are thinking or saying about current politics.  If a thread
                    offends you don't read it: motd doesn't need a self
                    appointed nanny to cleanse threads based on obscure
                    and subjective metrics -- especially if they don't take
                    activity into account.
                    \_ don't fuck with him.  he has root power and can nuke
                       a lot more than just motd.  he could make a lot of
                       "accident" happen to your account.  be wise.
                    \_ On a world writable forum, we're all nannies.  I'm not
                       appointing myself "THE" anything.  When I purge, I try
                       to purge obvious noise or the whole thread, not simply
                       points with which I disagree--unlike other people.
                       -emarkp
                       \_ there are exactly two types of purges that don't
                          make you a fucking asshole:
                          1) purging old stuff, as in more than two days old
                          2) purging stuff that has been messed up in some
                             way, like when some tool uses a script to
                             reverse all the words.
                          \_ So you're appointing yourself as the nanny now?
                             -emarkp
                             \_ Don't get all huffy, dude -- just stop
                                censoring the motd.
                             \_ from /csua/adm/doc/policies/motd
                                  Destruction of the MOTD (by repeated
                                  deletion, jive, or any other method) is
                                  severly frowned upon and will result in the
                                  termination of your account.
                                i'd argue that 1) doesn't count as destruction.
                                as for 2) its a grey area as messed up text is
                                sometimes still readable. i would count selective
                                purging based on what one considers "noise" to
                                be destruction under the above policy. -erikk
                                \_ Gee, I wonder where the policy police is
                                   when people repeatedly fuck up my posts
                                   (Delete a few lines, change some things,
                                   sign my name to things I didn't write, etc.)
                                   This entire thread is bullshit.  Apply
                                   'The Policy' uniformly, or don't bring it
                                   up at all.  -- ilyas
                                   \_ Ilyas, 'The Policy' can't en enforced
                                      in your favor if you just sit back in
                                      silence and allow yourself to be
                                      violated.  And no, one line quips
                                      probably aren't enough to make it clear
                                      you're being victimized.  If you're not
                                      going to stand up for your rights, then
                                      I have a hard time understanding your
                                      tone here.
                                      \_ Last time some mental giant decided
                                         to sign my name to some shit I didn't
                                         write, I made a post about it to the
                                         motd, which got promptly ignored and
                                         soon deleted.  People regularly edit
                                         and delete my posts, it's pretty
                                         clear if you have been paying
                                         attention.  I guess next time it
                                         happens I ll just snitch to the
                                         politburo...  *sigh*
                                         It's clear to me people have a huge
                                         double standard for 'The Policy.'
                                         When some people do stuff, it's
                                         harmless fun and pranks, when others
                                         do it, it's Censorship with a capital
                                         C.  These days, my policy is, if I
                                         see someone fuck up (which is different
                                         from an overwrite) what I wrote,
                                         I nuke the thread.  As far as I am
                                         concerned, the conversation is then
                                         over.  If that's a violation of
                                         'The Policy' take it up with people
                                         who fucked up the thread first.
                                           -- ilyas
                                           \_ I do pay attention, and you're
                                              not the only victim by a long
                                              shot.  So why do you sign your
                                              name?  why does anyone sign their
                                              name?   I still don't see the
                                              advantage, and I see many
                                              disadvantages.
                                              \_ I don't always sign my name.
                                                 When I do, it's because I want
                                                 to own what I say.  The
                                                 proper response to a macaque
                                                 having fun at someone else's
                                                 expense is to not stop
                                                 signing like a coward, but to
                                                 make sure the macaque
                                                 understands its fun will soon
                                                 end if it does it (i.e the
                                                 thread will get nuked).
                                                   -- ilyas
                                                 \_ I still don't see the point.
                                                    How exactly do you "own"
                                                    your posts?  who cares?
                                                    you know you posted them,
                                                    and i'll read them
                                                    regardless, so who cares?
                                                    I think a lot of the
                                                    funniest, most interesting
                                                    stuff is by anon. posters,
                                                    and some of the most
                                                    useless drivel is by the
                                                    name-signers (I'm not
                                                    talking about you here.)
                                \_ So this is some sort of vague threat?  Or is
                                   it just a lesson that those who nuke threads
                                   should remain anonymous?  Seriously.
                                   -emarkp
              3) fuck you.
              4) some of us get a lot out of those discussions that you
                 identify as "noise."
                 \_ So identify "us".  I've seen the same rabid partisan
                    back-and-forth for years now.  I have learned a few things,
                    but the biggest thing I've learned is that most people
                    aren't listening to each other, nor do they care about the
                    truth.  Most people on the motd are partisan nutjobs.
                    -emarkp
                    \_ I guess you missed the poll a couple weeks back of how
                       long people have spent doing background research relating
                       to a motd discussion.  One guy spent a month researching
                       WMD claims 20 hours a week.  I spent two weeks
                       researching the 2000 election debacle because of a motd
                       discussion, and ended up reading the supreme court
                       decision and actually changing my opinion on the issue.
                       I'm afraid it is you who are the partisan nutjob
                       if you're incapable of seeing that people are getting
                       something real out of these discussions, in spite of
                       all the flameing.
                       \_ Just out of curiousity, what's your current
                          opinion of the 2000 election?
                          \_ That it was a total clusterfuck, and that neither
                             side really cheated.  I had previously bought
                             the democratic party line that the republicans
                             had "stolen" the election, but became convinced
                             that the things that were broken in florida
                             were just good ol' fashioned bipartisan idiocy.
                             I was also amazed at how much other idiocy there
                             was outside of florida that  no one cared about
                             because it didn't come down to so few votes.
                             There was one county in South Carolina where the
                             official tally had one vote for Gore, one for Bush,
                             and several thousand for Nader and Buchannan.
                             and several hundred for Nader and Buchannan.
                             \_ What? Are you serious?  How did that
                                happen? (about the county in SC)
                                \_ well, I got it from this paper:
                         http://elections.fas.harvard.edu/pc01/node5.html
                                   But for details, you'd have to look up
                                   the reference from there.
                                   That paper is *really* worth reading,
                                   by the way, if you want the whole story
                                   about the "butterfly ballot."
              5) did i mention fuck you?
              \_ You know he's responsible for some of the purges, huh?
                 Why, because he's got the guts to sign his name and you
                 don't?  Oooo..  that's ome pretty hard evidence. -jrleek
                 \_ Look, the Mormons are banding together! You know what,
                    sometimes the trolls annoy me too but I don't want your
                    self-appointed cleansing going on with active discussions.
                    If other people are using the motd then you're just a
                    stupid dick to wipe it all out. But hey I'll be a dick
                    too: I only care to see that Doom 3 thread.
                    \_ Yeah, that's mature.  You're really swaying my opinion
                       with your masterful argument. -emarkp
                       \_ I'm not the "fuck you" guy by the way but I agree.
                          Re: your "truth", do you have the truth? I think
                          not. That's the point of discussion.
                    \_ Again, why do you keep claiming I, or he, have
                       wiped anything?  I've personally never deleted
                       anyone else's stuff from the motd on purpose.
                       Hello?  Any proof, at all?  No?  Bye troll, I'm
                       done. -jrleek
                       \_ emarkp admits it a few posts up.
                          \_ Whoops, didn't see that.  I stand corrected.
                             -jrleek
                    \_ What does my being Mormon have to do with anything?
                       Besides, if you want to criticize our connections,
                       complain that he's my brother-in-law, not just that both
                       of us are Mormons. -emarkp
                       \_ We already know you guys are all related.
                          \_ Aren't all mormons in-laws of each other?
                             \_ Hope you didn't pay much for that bait.  I
                                don't think you're gonna catch any billy-goats.
           \_ Those who don't participate don't care.
              In any case, it's not so hard to nuke the political threads
              at the end of the day when everyone's gone home and eating
              dinner instead of in the middle when people are loafing.
2004/8/3-10/27 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:32666 Activity:nil
8/3     Soda crashed again. It appears to be a kernel bug and we may take soda
        down to patch the kernel.
2004/8/3-4 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:32667 Activity:high
8/3     Does anyone have tried using MO drives (like Fujitsu) for backup/
        archive?  Is it worthwhile?
        \_ Do they hold a lot more data than DVDs? Otherwise, what's
           the point?
                \_ No, infact MO holds much less than DVDs. They might
                   have 4gb ones now, but nothing close to the 8gb and
                   its not like you can afford the 4gb disks in any
                   large quantity (as compared to DVDs, which are about
                   $1 for 4x rated media).
        \_ What's an MO drive?
           \_ Magneto-optical; the first removable-disk technology (predates
              Zip).  I don't think they're large enough to be worth using for
              backup.  2.3 GB?  Way too expensive for that kind of capacity.
                -tom
              \_ I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day.
              \_ Yes MO is expensive, but they "supposedly" have good
                 archival characteristics.  I am wondering if it is a
                 good way to archive important data like thesis, paper,
                 photograph etc, or things that you want to be able to retrieve
                 a few years from now and are not that huge.  -- op
                 \_ Do you know a drive that can read one of the original
                    44MB cartridges?  That was less than 10 years ago.  -tom
                    \_ I am not aware of 44MB, but supposedly the 3.5 ones
                       should be able to read back upto 128MB, because it is
                       an ISO standard.
                       \_ Well, do what you want, but in my opinion, if you're
                          looking for data archival, you don't want to be
                          using a technology that few others are using.
                          Especially if it's expensive.  -tom
        \_ If you don't mind that MO drives are slow, MO disks are low
           capacity (in comparision with a DVD) and expensive and that
           most of the drives are still scsi based, MO is great. Sure,
           your data will survive the next ice age, a emp and a glancing
           blow by a nuclear weapon. If your pr0n collection is that
           important, consider MO. If, on the other hand your data isn't
           that important, stick to the cheap soln., DVDs. BTW, MO is big
           in Japan (just thought you should know).
           \_ How is DVD's archival quality?  BTW, Fujitsu makes MO with
              firewire or usb 2.
                \_ Yes they do, but most of the good drives are still
                   scsi. The fw or usb2 drives are usually the crappy
                   ide version of the drive with a low cost fw/usb2 to
                   ide bridge chip. You've got to ask yourself why you
                   would pay top dollar for MO only to get stuck with
                   cut rate bridge chip.
                   For the vast majority of stuff DVD works well enough.
                   Get the make in Japan stuff (~ $1 per 4x rated disk)
                   Get the made in Japan stuff (~ $1 per 4x rated disk)
                   and make sure that you keep each disk in a separate
                   case and out of the sunlight and you should be good
                   till blueray comes out (2-3 yrs), at which time you
                   will want to ditch your crusty DVDs for blueray disks.
        \_ I have a MO library right now. I used them back in 1995 as
           well. There is no redeeming quality. Back then it was cool to
           be able to store 2 GB on a rewriteable medium, but there is no
           advantage now. I can't wait to throw my library away. What kind
           of idiot would go back to early 90s technology now?
           \- if you are talking about this technology:
                 http://www.pinnaclemicro.com/optical_index.htm
              it is a serious pain in the ass to use. some genius
              decided to use this on a DAQ setup and it lead to countless
              problems. media integrity is useless if there is no device
              to read it ... especially when the drivers have to be
              licensed as well. if you want reliability, go with redunancy.
              that also protects against fire/theft/earthquake/mudslide
              scenarios. --psb
        \_ One other point no one has mentioned is this: how many people
           \_ The point has been made above multiple times.
           do you know with a MO drive? WTH are you going to do with your
           disks if your drive goes bad? At least with DVDs you can go
           to fry's buy a new dvd-rom (or burner given the recent price
           drops) and get all your data back.
2004/8/3-4 [Science/Space] UID:32668 Activity:very high
8/3     I can't tread water. I was at a party a few days ago and another guy
        there was talking about how he couldn't tread water either. Another
        person overhears him and mentions that she can't tread water either.
        Is this a very common problem? And why can't some people tread water?
        Is it just a matter of technique, or are people like us just too
        dense to float?
        \_ it's a skill that can be learned. I'm not very buff, and am not
           overwieght, and can tread water without much energy expended
           because of swim lessons and practice.  find someone who
           knows how, and get them to show you, then practice.
           it could save your life, so it's worth it.
        \_You just need to work out a LOT more. Treading water is very
          energy intensive and requires strong legs with very good stamina.
          Why do you think water-polo players are so fit?
          \_ I have seen others who make it look effortless. Like the opening
             scene in Jaws, the woman doesn't even look like she's trying.
             \_ Yes, and Tiger Woods makes driving a ball a couple hundred
                yards towards a small green effortless. It doesn't mean
                he just picked up golf yesterday...
                \_ I was trying to dispute the "energy-intensive" point and
                   not so much the skill aspect. The woman in Jaws does not
                   appear to be expending much energy at all.
                   \_ ahh yes.... movies...
                      \_ that's right, because back in 1975, it was worthwhile
                         and cost-effective to make a shot of a woman swimming
                         in the ocean an FX sequence
                         \_ ocean == saltwater == easier anyway
       \_ When you say treading water, do mean just using your legs to
           stay afloat, or is using your arms ok too?  With arms it's
           pretty easy, with just legs, it's pretty hard.
        \_ What do you mean by treading water?  Walking in the pool or bathtub?
           Or the Jews walking through the red sea?
           \_ Imbecile.  Obviously he means walking on water, like Jesus.
              If you followed the thread, you would have read that none of
              his co-workers could do it, but water polo players can do it
              because they're *very fit*.
              \_ you don't read so good, do you?  water polo players can
                 walk on water because they're jewish.
                 \_ You're right.  I re-read the thread and it's clear that
                    what you wrote is 100% accurate.
        \_ re density: can you float on your back?  shouldn't take any energy
           to keep mouth and nose out of water in calm water; may take a little
           effort if there is chop/waves washing over your face.
           i agree with first reply; i swam competetively as a youngster
           and am at ease in water... treading water is easy and i could do it
           for hours in a pool.  it's a little harder while holding a beer in
           one hand and keeping the chlorine out of it.
           oh, also: control your breathing.  shallow breathing with lungs
           full of air is a lot more bouyant than deep exhalations.  if i exhale
           forcefully i can sink to the bottom, but it counters years of
           swimming instinct.
           \_ Not OP, but I can't float on my back, and I've tried in a pool
              and open water. I even had my gf at the time try to keep me up,
              but I simply kept sinking. Not sure why.
2004/8/3-4 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:32669 Activity:nil
8/3     How hard is it to install extra RAM in an ibook laptop- special tools
        required, etc?  I've never opened a laptop but plenty of desktops.
        \_ Yes, you need the right sized screwdriver to unscrew the screw
           from the panel that covers the socket to insert the RAM. It takes
           years and years and years of training to be able to find the
           right Phillips head screwdriver to insert into that particular
           screw and apply torque counter-clockwise in order to remove it.
           \_ I've heard re: the iBook specifically that you need to remove
              the keyboard, the airport card, and then a final cover.  True?
              Difficult?  It's for a friend and I don't want to get blamed.
              \_ the first two just pop out.
        \_ simple.
        \_ 10-20 min job. You need a #10 jewellers screwdrivers iirc. See
           here for pdfs with pictures on how to do it:
           http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=26277
2004/8/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32670 Activity:very high
8/3     Kerry FlipFlops on technology.
        http://news.com.com/2010-1028-5291476.html      -fifth columnist
        \_ We've turned the corner!
        \_ What's next week's talking point?
        \_ You need to go look at some of the posts out there on the
           web from people who have been victims of Declan's idiocy.
           He fudges facts and loves to attack  basically anyone. He
           has all  the idiocy of a mainstream journalist, but with the
           mean streak of a motd flame warrior.  Here's a start:
           http://www.lessig.org/blog/archives/001617.shtml
           \_ At least you've never had to work with the guy.
              \_ please elaborate.  you worked with him?
        \- kerry flipflops on SCIENCE:
              http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=17231
           Bush knows the answer: Jesus is the Light. --psb
           \_ Partha, what are your politics?
              \- Personally, heavily Kantian. Publically, a mix of
                 Kantian and Utilitarian which is too involved to be
                 summarized here. I believe Bush should be defeated
                 not so much because of future policy directions but
                 because he is a liar of low character who surrounds
                 himself with even sleazier people than he is. --psb
                 \_ You need to talk more about rights for me to place your
                    politics, Partha.  You can be a Kantian anything. -- ilyas
                    \- i will if you send me a paypal payment of $5.
                       or you can send me a sufficiently interesting
                       multiple choice exam. --psb
                       \_ Meh.  I don't care enough.  You don't either. -- ilyas
                       \_ Meh.  I don't care enough.  You don't either.
                          Although you know, to an outside observer it DOES
                          look like you just threw a dead philosopher label.
                          A label which doesn't really discriminate anything.
                            -- ilyas
                       \_ You're in a desert, walking along in the sand when
                          suddenly you look down and see a tortoise.  It's
                          crawling toward you.  You reach down and you flip
                          the tortoise over on its back.  The tortoise lays
                          on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun,
                          beating its legs trying to turn itself over but it
                          can't.  Not without your help.  But you're not
                          helping.  Why is that?
                          \_ Thats interesting. I dont know. Im a republican?
                             \_ Sigh.
                                \_ Double-sigh to you.  That was Tom Ammiano's
                                   response when The Wave tested SF Mayoral
                                   candidates.
                 \_ All very nice but all your wall/motd statements make you
                    look like any other soda leftist.  Nothing special going
                    on there.  Perhaps you think Kerry has surrounded himself
                    with people of good will and strong hearts?  Whatever.
                    \_ Oh no. I've been reading his stuff for years now and psb
                       is interesting because his mind does change. He spent
                       quite awhile being hawkish online a year or so ago. I'd
                       guess tom is the motd liberal you are looking
                       for, though brain is the one I'd really like to hear
                       more from. There are too few advocates of pure evil on
                       the motd. -- ulysses
                    \- writing currente calamo ...
                       1. years ago during George I's First Gulf War, for
                          the same piece of commetary, i was simultaneously
                          accused of "writing for the baghdad daily" and
                          for writing for the jerusalem post. so i knew i
                          was doing something right.
                          \_ Years ago?  What have you done for me lately?
                       2. since you are writing anonymously, there is nothing
                          in it for me to prove you wrong on my leftist
                          leanings. i'm certainly on the record as "flipflop-
                          ping" on George II's Gulf War II, but as John Maynard
                          Keynes said " "When the facts change, I change my
                          mind - what do you do, sir?".
                          \_ My anonymity has *nothing* to do with your
                             postings.  This is a weak cop out.  You're here
                             on the motd and most people post anonymously.
                             If that was such a problem for you, you should
                             have just ignored me entirely instead of writing
                             a numbered 5 point rant.
                       3. sure kerry is ambitious. sure he was a member of
                          skull and bones. nevertheless he's someone who
                          took trouble to get himself into the lines of
                          fire. bush probably has the most honorable service
                          record of his coerteie of chickenhawks ... which
                          says something. you wont hear me saying anything
                          uncivil of john mccain. i suppose at a certain level
                          you have to respect BUSHCO for even getting a
                          sup ct justice in their crony cabal. maybe some of
                          kerry's advisors are not morally pure, nevertheless
                          someone like sandy berger had the deceny to quit.
                          \_ You call Berger decent?  Holy shit...  The man
                             stuffed high security level documents down his
                             pants and destroyed them.  With twisted standards
                             like that anything else you say about morals or
                             decency is utter crap.
                             \_ Actually, he's been cleared of all of that.
                                Try a news source other than Fox News.
                                \_ Not pp.  Link that he's been cleared?
                                   They find the docs or soemthing?
                       4. do you respect somebody who opposed the 9/11
                          commssion existing, then limited their subpoena-like
                          powers/his cooperation, would not testify under oath,
                          did not have the balls to show up "Dickless" ... and
                          now rather than stand on execitive privilage or sep
                          of power, is attempting to coopt the agenda.
                          \_ You're putting words in my mouth.  Standard
                             leftist pap.  I didn't say anything at all either
                             way about GWB or anyone in his administration.
                             I call red herring on this one.  It has nothing
                             to do with what I said.  Weak distration from
                             what I said which is that you're a leftist, not
                             some intellectual non-partisan who exists on
                             some higher plane of political discourse.
                             \_ Err ... I am sure you are intelligent enough
                                to understand psb's question was directed
                                at the general audience.  I know, self
                                importance can lead to temporary idiocy.
                                As it now stands, the only thing in your
                                gabhole is your big smelly foot, and
                                you shoved it in there all by yourself.
                       5. as tacitus wrote in the annals, "My only regret is
                          that insults and perils have made my old age unhappy
                          ... it is because I disklike criminality."
                          --psb
                          \_ Yes, very nice.  You get 2 bonus points for an
                             ancient name drop reference/quote and another
                             bonus point for the quote almost sounding like
                             it has something to do with the topic but not.
                             You're a leftist.  Nothing wrong with being a
                             standard Bush hating liberal.  There's lots of
                             them and not all of them are idiots.  Some have
                             actually know why they hate Bush.  I just don't
                             think you're one of that set.  Be a liberal,
                             live it up, hate Bush, whatever.  Just don't run
                             around claiming you're better than everyone else
                             through false claims of being different somehow.
                             \_ If you have read psb's posts over a long
                                period of time, and don't think psb is
                                "different" in any way from "normal," i'm
                                curious to know what circles you normaly
                                run in.
                             \_ nice ... when you can't win the argument ...
                                just throw labels at your opponent.
           \_ Dubya didn't ask his dad for advice on Iraq; he submits to a
              Higher Father.
              \_ I always wondered: do people who post this stuff think
                 they're clever/funny or what?  Is it troll bait?  I don't
                 see the point in this sort of post.
                 \_ "There is a higher father that I appeal to".  --Dubya,
                    to Bob Woodward.  Troll 1, You 0. -John
                    \_ Uh, yeah whatever.  This doesn't answer my question.
                        \_ OK I'll bite.  It's called "sniping", otherwise
                           known as the "paenut gallery."  Some people
                           find it amusing, you obviously don't.  Let it
                           lie.  -John
2004/8/3-4 [Finance/Investment] UID:32671 Activity:very high
8/3     Ok. I've got $60K to invest for a year. What do the motd stock
        gurus recommend? The last set of picks actually did well!
        \_ No guru, but I was thinking of putting about 10K into QQQ,
           perhaps during the end of Aug or even as late as mid Oct.
           QQQ is down to 32.50 during intraday, and traditionally
           markets go up after the Nov. election. The 52 low is 29.50,
           and it's coming off of a high of 39. What do you guys think?
        \_ Addendum: That number could actually grow to a few hundred K
           depending on how things work out. Doubling my investment gets
           me a new Porsche! Thanks motd!
        \_ G00G D00D! Seriously though, you should spread out your
           investments over a few mutual funds and maybe one or two
           stock and an index fund (or something similar like QQQ).
        \_ real or fake money?
        \_ wait until after November in case terrorists blow something
           up
        \_ ICGE earnings just coming out, should double
        \_ WTF are all of you thinking?  This man's ill gotten gains must
           be returned to all of us, where it belongs.  If he has more money
           left over in a single year to just play with or buy a porsche(!!!)
           then he has too much money.  He should donate it to a worthy cause
           like buying tickets for the poor to see F9/11 or just send it back
           to the government so they can more efficiently spend it.
              \_ I always wondered: do people who post this stuff think
                 they're clever/funny or what?  Is it troll bait?  I don't
                 see the point in this sort of post.
        \_ Milltek Cat+ assembly, Bailey DV-30 diverter valve, a good
           air filter, a new ECU, a Forge intercooler, and some nice new 18"
           rims & SP-9000s.  I guarantee satisfaction and a great return on
           your investment.  (I'll give you a ride.)  -John
           \_ No! He should pay NO TAXES!!!  He needs to buy LOTS OF GUNS to
              protect his STUFF from the MEN WITH GUNS!!
        \_ Depending on your risk level, maybe ultra short term bonds.
           QQQ is too high variance for one year.
        \_ WAG.
        \_ NGEN after it calms down.
        \_ SCOX all the way!  There's nowhere to go but up!
        \_ sCOX all the way!  There's nowhere to go but up!
        \_ if you've got a strong stomach, taiwan. tsm, asx, spil, auo.
           but don't blame me if there's a war.  i also like india,
           eastern europe, japan, malaysia and nxg (gold / copper).
           a relatively conservative choice is dvy - it's an etf consisting
           of a bunch of high dividend paying blue chip companies.  I would
           buy dvy rather than short term bonds.
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:August:03 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>