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| 2004/7/19 [Uncategorized] UID:32341 Activity:high 100%like:32275 57%like:32340 |
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\_ Stupid censor! Please don't mess with my mushroom cloud! |
| 2004/7/19 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:32342 Activity:very high |
7/19 Dear motd spy, who is nuking the motd? ok thx
\_ I used to nuke the nuker but that never got anywhere. So now I
just mess with his mushroom cloud.
\_ Dear prude: go and die please. ok thx.
\_ Huh?
\_ seriously, someone's been nuking the motd this wknd. it should
be considered a squishable offense
\_ Yeah well, the motd is stupid and deserves it. !the nuker
\_ I'm nuking the motd to make Kais Motd useless -revenge is sweet
\_ I just finished 'nuking the motd' and I'm five pounds lighter!
\_ And they say that kids today don't have goals.
\_ dear revenge guy, why do you hate Kais Motd? -kchang
\_ I drank too much during my friend's wedding, came home,
fell asleep and woke up late in the evening with a
big hangover. I checked the motd and it was full of
witless political rantings, and it gave me a big
headache, so I decided to nuked it. I felt much
better immediately. Nuking the motd beats Tylenol
hands down. But later, some bad boy messed with
my mushroom cloud, making it upside down.
Fortunately, my girl friend was home by then, so
we went and had hot wet sex all night long.
\_ Your mom got home with refills for the liquid hand soap, eh? |
| 2004/7/19 [Consumer/Camera] UID:32343 Activity:insanely high |
7/19 Motd Photo Experts: I'm thinking about getting a 28-105 F3.5-4.5
USMII lens to replace the 18-55 lens that came with my Digital
Rebel (http://tinyurl.com/yrctn for b&h link)
I want a longer zoom (as opposed to wide angle) because I'm
usually photographing birds and its hard to get close enough to
get a good shot with the 18-55.
Does anyone have this lens? Is it a good buy? tia.
\_ I just bought one and know where to get another locally
at a good price. nwrite me -shac
\_ A few follow up questions:
1) If I should be looking at a longer zoom, what about a
55-200: http://tinyurl.com/5z7v3 (b&h)
2) Right now I have a 1A (UV?) filter and a separate circular
polarizer (I was told I should use this when shooting
outside in order to prevent wash out). I have been reading
that using two filters in series isn't a good idea. Is
there some filter that I can get which combines the 1A and
the cp or does something similar?
\_ If you're going to use a polarizer when shooting moving
objects, and the lens lets you mount filters at the front,
make sure you get a lens whose front element doesn't rotate
while focusing. Otherwise, every time you re-focus you'll
have to re-adjust the polarizer. I have a cheap Tamron zoom
whose front element doesn't rotate, and then an expensive
Nikkor of the same zoom range whose front element does rotate.
About using two filters being bad, I think what you read
refers to vignetting, which is usually a problem when shooting
wide-angle. Since you're shooting telephoto, I don't think
it'll be a problem for you. --- yuen
\_ This is a very good lens for the price.
\_ blah blah.
\_ I would still get the 18-55mm zoom lens instead for two reasons:
1. wide angle is 200% more "useful" than telephoto lens. 28mm on
the short end is a bit too long for dSLR (smiliar to 50mm on a
35mm, and take my word for it).
2. I am not a bird shooter, but from my limited experiences, unless
you are only going to shoot bird in that big cage down in San
Diego Zoo, you want something longer than 105mm (even with
multiplication factor considered). PERSONALLY, I would suggest
you get a 70-200mm instead. That lens would give you enough
reach for now, and non-USM version is very cheap for its
quality. Birds are hard to shoot, and unless you have
experience with them, I would still suggest you go down in
San Diego Zoo and try to shoot them in the cage first :p
If you have money to burn, get a regular 300mm non-zoom.
That lens is very very well regarded.
\_ Thanks for the advice. My digital rebel came with the
18-55, and I'm not thinking about selling it. I wanted
to get the 28-105 as a day to day replacement for the
for the 18-55.
\_ you won't able to. Just get a seperate lens, 70-200mm
would give you enough reach at the long end, and
relatively flexiable enough to be used in other occations.
I agree that birds are pretty tough to shoot. Right now
I'm practicing mostly on birds in my yard and geese/ducks
at a pond near work.
\_ The OP is using a dSLR, with multiplication factor of 1.6
So, while your lens recommendation is good for 35mm camera,
it's not so good for Digital Rebel. Further, OP is not a
photo geek (yet). And only photo geeks buy prime lenses
nowadays. Both 85mm and 105mm is a bit too short for
shooting bird even with the 1.6X factored in.
owner of 20mm, 28mm, 50mm, 85mm, 500mm and 2 zooms.
\_ to OP: if you realy want to shoot bird, you need a lens which
for it. You can't have a lens which is good for casual shooting
AND be useful for bird shooting as well. Stick with a 18mm-55mm
and get a long lens (around 200mm) and you will be good to go.
\_ Consider getting a 85mm or a 105mm prime, or even the cheap 50mm
prime. The 50mm beats the pants off the 18-55mm, especially when
you are taking flower pictures. If you are tight on budget, the 28-105
is an excellent lens. Optically it is noticibly better than the kit
lens that came with the rebel. If you have the $$$, I would recommend
a more telephoto zoom, like 70-200mm, etc.
\_ I'm not a Canon user. Before you buy any telephoto lens for you
digital Rebel, you should check whether or not the's lens' widest
aperature setting at the long end of its focal length range works
with the AF system on your camera. For 28-105 f/3.5-4.5, you should
check if f/4.5 works with your AF. This is important since you're
shooting moving objects far away. If you're shooting dead birds,
however, it's okay to lose AF. --- yuen
\_ Insert obHuntingJoke |
| 2004/7/19 [Recreation/Humor] UID:32344 Activity:nil |
7/19 Wow, Tom the Dancing Bug is funny for this first time in months!
http://www.ucomics.com/tomthedancingbug/index.phtml
\_ no it's not
\_ Eh. I chuckled when I read it. For the last 2 or 3 months
everytime I read the comic it only gave me kind of a vauge
feeling of emabrasment for the author.
\_ I find it very often funny. Vive la difference
\_ so why do you waste your time?
\_ It's on my daily strips page. He used to be VERY
funny every week, but recently he seems to have gotten
election fever. He's more interested in being
anti-Bush that being interesting.
\_ Kind of like tom "i can't draw and I'm never funny, but
i'm too lazy and
stupid to write editorials" tomorow.
\_ No, I don't recall Tom Tommorow ever having been
funny. He's always been an embarassment.
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\_ Stupid censor! Please don't mess with my mushroom cloud!
\_ He wants to nuke Australia. |
| 2004/7/19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:32345 Activity:very high |
7/19 So we lied about the size of the mass graves...
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1263830,00.html
But we've set our goals high and hope to turn those lies true!
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/central/08/29/afghanistan.mass.graves
\_ Are we supposed to infer that you support Al-Qaida from this?
I.e. "Well, Saddam Hussein/Al-Qaida didn't kill THAT many people,
and we have been killing a lot of Al-Qaida insurgents, so therefore
BushCo/America is bad." Boy, we sure need more people like you
around...
\_ The inferences made on the motd never cease to amaze me. What
about the more rational "I don't like that we decry the mass
graves in Iraq only to find that 1) we turned a blind eye when
they had happened and 2) we are again turning a blind eye to
the same actions in another place." If you're going to condemn
an action, and especially if you use it as a causus belli, you
need to condemn it across the board.
\_ Which is not how the original was posited. The original
was constructed to say that A was not as terrible as
we had initially intended and that we are doing B so
that means that the enemy isn't really that evil and
we are evil because we have allowed the same to happen
to our enemy. Also, you are painting too broad a stroke
here. The causes belli was not mass killings, but mass
killings of supposed innocents. The U.S. has always been
engaged in mass killings, whether it be Germans, Japanese,
or North Koreans. Sanctioning mass killings in the name of
security is what War is all about. If you don't like it
feel free to be a pacifist. However, idealism does not
get you far in the realm of the realpolitik.
\_ First off, the humanitarian reason for invading was well
down the list, but has since emerged as the only reason
left standing. Second, in our history you can count on
one hand the number of times we have actually used our
military for humanitarian reasons. This is not to say we
shouldn't (I personally think we don't do it enough, nor
do we have any division with the proper training to do so),
but it is an historical anomoly nonetheless, and one that
we're taking a nosedive on. Third, the premise that this
was done in the name of security, or that it has done
anything to improve security, is well in doubt.
\_ On one hand? I don't think you can count *any* events
where we used our military for humanitarian reasons. By
its very nature, the military inflicted death upon
another people is not a humanitarian act. I want you to
name that handful of so-called humanitarian uses of US
military power. You can't. There are none.
\_ Bosnia, Haiti, Somalia (supposedly).
\_ Bosnia: indiscriminate bombing from 30,000 feet.
\_ The Bosnians were grateful for the assistance.
We probably saved them from being wiped out.
Haiti: we installed or reinstalled dictators at
the point of a gun 2 or 3 times in the last
few years.
\_ Wrong. Go reread your history of Haiti. Unless
you mean 40 years when you say "few." The
only person installed in the last decade
by the US military was Aristide, who was
the democratically elected leader of Haiti.
Somalia: we got 18 dead Americans, no people fed,
a huge PR mess, and showed the world, once
again, that the US is a paper tiger.
There are no peaceful uses for military power.
\_ How about the numerous times US Marines
have rescued Americans in trouble overseas?
\_ No, we are supposed to infer that op hates America.
\_ The mass graves weren't big enough for you?
\_ So we're going to ship the bodies from Afganistan to Iraq?
\_ So Mazar-e-Sharif, a location of a prison uprising that took 2-3
days to stop and killed a CIA agent would not expect to have
resulted in prisoner deaths? |
| 2004/7/19-20 [Transportation/Car] UID:32346 Activity:high 54%like:11910 |
7/19 what is a good home insurance for east bay?
\_ AAA
\_ My uncle has State Farm.
\_ Liberty Mutual |
| 2004/7/19-20 [ERROR, uid:32347, category id '18005#8.125' has no name! , , Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:32347 Activity:insanely high |
7/19 http://www.moveon.org/fox MoveOn files complaint with FTC over "Fair and Balanced" \_ Fox News, you news source for evil. \_ Fox News, your voice for evil. \_ chicom troll? is that you? \_ It's from the Simpsons. \_ no, but i do wish Nazi was a bit more efficient \_ yes! kill all jew! then muslim brother loves us! \_ Very Interesting... But Stupid! The Motd has been reversed \_ It's probably not kchang, but I'm ready for another squishing! So, who is it? \_ I just finnished writing an outraged letter to moveon. I've given a lot of money to those bastards! \_ i think Fox's new ads say "Informed. Powerful. Huge Penis." - danh \_ YOUR PENIS IS SO BIG AND TAX FREE! \_ Moveon should be more worried about their own questionable financial dealings than how Fox News advertises themselves. \_ "Questionable"? You mean George Soros? There's nothing questionable there. Or are you talking about 527 status? or are you just ranting to see yourself type? Moveon is exactly what it says it is. Fox is not. \_ 527 specifically but since you mention Soros, yes, him too. And what ranting? You're the one blowing froth. I'm simply mentioning that a .org with their background should clean up their own backyard before complaining too loudly about a neighbor's. Fox will always be there as long as they get advertisers. Moveon is a 527 which can vanish with the stroke of a pen with all the other 527s which exist only to skirt the campaign finance reform laws. |
| 2004/7/19-20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iran] UID:32354 Activity:very high |
7/19 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3908245.stm We be invading Iran next. \_ FOUR MORE YEAH! \_ Pay no attention to the Saudi behind the curtain. \_ By definition, this is crying wolf. \_ How so? Tell us the names of the 3 "axis of evil" countries. \_ By definition, yermom is a slut. \_ Thanks for adding nothing and proving me right. |
| 2004/7/19-20 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:32355 Activity:kinda low |
7/19 Why Indiana is a stupid dumbass state:
http://www.mccsc.edu/time.html
\_ This is fucking stupid
\_ This is fucking stupid
\_ Although the project does a pretty good job explaining the
stupidity. |
| 2004/7/19-20 [Reference/Law, Politics] UID:32356 Activity:very high |
7/19 Tomorrow is the 60th anniversary of Operation Valkyrie. -John
\_ The plot to kill Hilter right?
\_ SHHH! Don't say the magic word!
\_ Voldemort!
\_ Godwin's Law! Godwin's Law!
\_ I wish some people would actually read Godwin's law and stop
mindlessly referring to it. I know the above are just joking
but really. Ok, it's been a long day and I'm grumpy, I know
that, but please stop screaming Godwin. It's ok to talk about
Hitler and the Nazis without invoking Godwin. |
| 2004/7/19 [Politics/Domestic/HateGroups] UID:32357 Activity:nil |
7/19 Anti-protest protesters? Is this a form of censorship?
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040719/D83TT7UO0.html
\_ Are you really that stupid?
\_ What? --op
\_ What he's saying is, "How could that possibly be a form
of CENSORSHIP? You can't really be that dumb, you must
be joking." He gave you a way out op, and you fell right
on your face.
\_ A way out of what? --op
\_ There is a long tradition of right wingers getting together
and attacking and otherwise terrorizing anyone who disagrees
with them. See the history of the American Legion, VFW, hardhats
beating up hippies, The Klan, etc. This is just a pathetic
attempt at more of the same, but since it will fail, it doesn't
qualify as "censorship." A more accurate term would be harassment.
\_ Name some more random groups. The foreign legion is a branch
of the French military. Do you mean the American Legion? And
regarding the whole "right wingers crushing dissent" thing,
try walking into a given grouping of Cal students and saying
"I kind of like Bush" just for fun. -John
\_ Yeah, American legion, thanks corrected. Do you honestly
think you would be beaten for saying that? I really doubt
it.
\_ The Klan is right wing? The one and only member of the Senate
who was in the Klan is a Dem.
\_ You know, you're right--I belonged to some pseudo-young
republican "debate" organization in high school, before I
I realized that they were a bunch of "me too" morons. It took
at least a year of Cal to realize that the people they had this
terrible enmity towards were equally idiotic. So in the long
run, one can hope it balances out... -John
\_ The Foreign Legion? The FRENCH Foreign Legion? What's the VFW
and Hard Hats? I need more than that for a google search. The
Klan isn't a right wing group. It's a hate group no different
from other racist hate groups of any color.
\_ Try "Know Nothings."
\_ VFW == Veterans of Foreign Wars. I meant the American Legion.
Corrected. If you don't know about the history of Vietnam
War protests, do a search.
http://chnm.gmu.edu/hardhats/homepage.html |
| 2004/7/19-20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:32358 Activity:very high |
7/19 Well, just as predicted, here's the Right spin on the Allawi summary
executions as provided by Rushbo:
LIMBAUGH: The Australian Broadcasting Corporation is reporting that
the new Iraqi Prime Minister Allawi has executed six insurgents in
front of witnesses, wanting to send a clear message to these people.
Good. Hubba-hubba.
Now that's right. Now, you're going to have -- you're going to have
-- you're going to have some of the powerless fearful Left in this
country saying see, this is what Bush has done. Bush did this, no due
process, they just kill them when you find them. We can't -- America's
going to be hated in the world, blah blah blah blah. Well, the Iraqis
are handling their own affairs.
\_ It was just a fraternity hazing!
\_ from the motd archive
<begin>\_ You know, even if it were true, Republicans would say they
got what they deserved, Iraqis are finally learning how to
take care of their own country, etc. In fact, I bet that's
what's being posted in the freeper boards right now.
\_ you bet? you can't either bother to check? you're just
going to make it up and pretend its true?<end>
\_ So where's the prediction part?
\_ The "prediction" part is about the right-wing spin/
interpretation, not a prediction of the actual act of Allawi
executing insurgents.
\_ So you predicted that the right wing would say what we
always say? That it's none of our damned business? Wow,
who put you on the RNC fax list? Golly.
\_ As predicted? Uhm, I guess. And if we had moved in to arrest the
guy and put him on trial you'd say what? That it's an internal
Iraqi affair and we should let them deal with it instead of imposing
our culture on theirs? Whatever.
\_ He's been on our payroll long enough that we could claim him as
our own... Iraqis would likely love to see Allawi on trial.
It might actually show us standing by our principles for once..
\_ You have your Iraqis confused. The INC guy got discredited
for making too much noise about the corrupt UN Stuff For Oil
program.
\_ Do a little homework. Allawi is long tied to the CIA.
\_ Everyone is tied to the CIA. Half of the Soviet Union
was on the CIA payroll. So what? You're probably on
their payroll and don't even know it. Your Professors
certainly were. If being on the CIA payroll, which you
haven't proven but I'll accept because it doesn't
matter, was such a big deal then you'd really have to
start at the UN if you wanted to clean house. He's an
Iraqi dealing with things in the Iraqi way.
\_ But...I thought we were bringing democracy to
Iraq? BTW, as previously discussed with supporting
URLs, Allawi was also one of Saddam's killers up
until the late '70s.
\_ We brought democracy to Iraq. Now it's their
problem. What's your point? |
| 2004/7/19-20 [Reference/Tax] UID:32359 Activity:high |
7/19 How much roughly does H&R Block charge for preparing an individual tax
return for a couple with two income, a few ESPP sales, a few stock
dividends, and a newly-purchased home under mortgage, with all
documents available?
\_ H&R block is for people with very small, simple tax returns who
want to reduce their hassle from epsilon down to zero(me). If you
actually expect to have your return done right the first time,
with all the deductions you should get, and this adds up to
real money, just forget it.
\_ Call them.
\_ As of 4 years ago, they charged by the forms filed. 1040EZ alone
was like $30. Schedule A costed extra, and schedule C and etc... |
| 2004/7/19-20 [Recreation/Dating] UID:32360 Activity:nil |
7/19 Dear illicit sex guy who posted on December 2002, whatever happened
to the relationship? Please post a follow up. ok thx. |
| 2004/7/19-20 [Uncategorized] UID:32361 Activity:nil |
7/19 Is there an etymological connection between Aladin and Bin Laden
(they both end in similar sounding suffix)? I mean, they're both
middle eastern and all.
\_ The next incarnation is Caeladan.
\_ Let's go kick Aladin's ass!
\_ it's spelled aladdin |
| 2004/7/19-20 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:32362 Activity:moderate |
7/19 Is there a unix text based MSN messenger client?
I wanna chat with hot girls but company has firewall.
\_ How would a text based client help you? The ports are still the
same.
\_ yea, but I can telnet out through gateway.
\_ centericq - never used it though |
| 2004/7/19-20 [Health/Men] UID:32363 Activity:high |
7/19 What's the average length of an Asian erect penis?
\_ Laden or unladen?
\_ What's the average length of bin Ladin's penis?
\_ My name is bin Laden, not bin Ladin! And I have big penis.
Much bigger than wimpy George Bush's.
\_ George Bush is not Asian.
\_ Then how did he father William Hung?
\_ G.W. Bush is clearly a mongoloid.
\_ Racist, what do you have against Mongolians? That is
so not PC!
\_ Girlie man!
\_ It's not the size that matters my son, it's how long you can
stay hard.
\_ That's what my wife tells me, but I think she's just being nice.
\_ That's what your wife tells me, too.
\_ 4 inches, 3 minutes.
\_ 7200 RPM.
\_ Uhm. Ouch.
\_ what do people mean when they say "X mintues"?
\_ They mean 551 557 906 200 X times one period of oscillation
of radiation from the hyperfine splitting of the ground state
of the caesium 133 atom. -SI #1 fan
\_ That 5 mana will go for 5 minutes, 6 mana for 6 minutes, etc.
\_ 4 inches, serious? Guess I'm not below average after all.
\_ Mine is 12+" -- William (Well) Hung
\_ http://the-penis-website.com/size2.html (Not work safe)
4 to 6 inches, this site says. |
| 2004/7/19-20 [Transportation/Airplane, Computer/Networking] UID:32364 Activity:high |
7/19 Cringley's plan to use WiFi in the Sky:
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20040715.html
\_ Who exactly is this guy?
\_ uh, you dont know? I had always kind of assumed that posting
"I, Cringley" articles was like posting links to slashdot
\_ I always assumed he was some guy reporting on pseudo geek
news or something from the article titles but, no, not really.
Should I care what this guy says about anything? Does he have
some fantastic track record for predicting technology trends
or is he just trendy?
\_ No one has a fantastic record for predicting technology
trends. |
| 2004/7/19-20 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:32365 Activity:high |
7/19 Why SpamAssassin is totally doomed:
http://cockeyed.com/lessons/viagra/viagra.html
\_ This was already posted, and it was stupid the first time.
\_ AFAIK, this is the third time someone posts this link.
(first one was months ago)
\_ I don't know about you, but I found Spamassassin does a pretty
good job as it is.
\_ anyone who tried to combine Chinese Word segmentation methods
and spamassassin so it can be used to filter out Chinese junk? |
| 2004/7/19-21 [Reference/Military] UID:32366 Activity:insanely high |
7/19 IAF (Indian Air Force)'s SU30 kicked USAF's F15C's arse in combat
exercise in India:
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/exercise-iaf-usaf-su30-f15-article01.html
\_ I thought the point with an F-15 is you point the missiles from
well out of visual range and run away at high speed while the
tracking computer takes care of the rest.
\_ time to offshore the air force. W00t!
\_ dude, India has an airforce? I mean, most of the Indians I know
are so myopic that they can barely drive a car and all...
\_ Cope India '04 is old news.
\_ This is not surprising. The F-15 took to the air in 1972, the C
variant in 1979. The Su-27, on which the Su-30 is based, took to
air along with the MiG-29 in the mid-80's, while the Su-30 itself
first flew in 1989. The F-15 in all variants is widely held to be
at best equal if not inferior to the Su-30, MiG-29 and other more
modern fighters. The F-15 is less maneuverable for engagement
inside visual range and also loses BVR where the Su-30 can track
a target and launch a missle well before the F-15. --Jon
\_ did the USAF outsource their pilots? Seriously, there were
reports on the unpatriotic public tv stations about russian pilot
superiority as well. US pilots don't train that much fighting the
old-fashioned "dog fights". It costs too much. USAF depends on
firing missiles from far away to kill planes. the russian planes
were very good as well. they don't need to be pampered like
US planes.
\_ I thought I saw a statistic somewhere that BVR kills only
account for a tiny fraction of total US air-to-air victories.
In most cases, you still need to come head-to-head and
visually identify your adversary.
\_ During Vietnam, the Sparrow radar guided missle had less
than a 10% kill rate. As the Grumman F-4 II did not have
a cannon until very late in Vietnam, well, do the math.
Pilots in the F-4 were getting 2 MiG shot down for every
F-4 lost to enemy fire.
\_ I thought F-4s were getting their butts kicked by the
MiGs until the Navy instituted Top Gun school. Also,
they had short-range missles at their disposal, not
just Sparrows.
\_ ...Most of which was ground fire. -John
\_ The usual rule has been that US planes have better avionics,
such as radio/radar/location/mapping/etc compared to Soviet
and other fighters of similar range, but lose to the same
fighters inside visual range due to lack of maneuverability
and lack of pilot training on ACM. Example, the Soviet
air force had vectored thrust in 1990 -- USAF is just getting
around to using it now.
\_ The F-15C is the Air Force's "Best Fighter?" By what metric?
Sheesh.
\_ By the metric of "planes actually in service". F-22 is not
scheduled to have an operational squadron till 2005. F-35 is
even farther away. F-16 vs F-15 could be interesting. ditto
for F-14 and F-18. But, given improvements in avionics, and
its single task focus, the -C (and the two seater -D) are
the USAF's primary assets for air superiority.
\_ Yeah, F-15C is the designated air-superiority plane. If you
look at the history of the F-16 versus F-15 it's interesting.
The F-16 does seem to be basically superior except that it
can't match the speed or ceiling of F-15 for interceptions.
It seems like in theory the F-16 could be better if it had the
air-to-air focus of USAF. It's also a lot cheaper.
\_ some other numbers:
thrust/wt at max takeoff weight: F-15: .73, F-16: .77
Wingloading (lb/ft^2): F-15: 112, F-16: 85
The F-15 and F-16 are at their base excellent platforms
for air superiority, just under different conditions.
The F-15 was designed as an all-weather day/night fighter.
The F-16 as a day fighter which, to appease certain groups
within the USAF, also got pushed into air-ground strike
roles. The F-16 wins over the F-15 in maneuverability,
smaller RCS, price, and acceleration. The F-15 wins in
top speed, max altitude, range/combat persistence, rate
of climb, and combat payload. The F-16 also pioneered
fly-by-wire, HOTAS, radar/HUD integration, and negative
stability. It was in many ways a guinea pig for new
technologies, whereas the F-15 was more traditional.
F-15 pilots with the one exception of F-15E pilots
spend all of their time doing air-air scenario training
whereas F-16 pilots all split their flight training
between air-air, air-ground. The F-15 is an interceptor,
the big gun. The F-16 is the inclose knife fighter.
\_ I'm not an expert on airplanes. What exactly does the
Wingloading number mean? Is it plane weight divided by
wing area? I'm guessing the plane with the lower number
would have greater ability to climb at a given airspeed
but singe a larger wing means more drag, which plane has
better climbing ability when they don't have excess
speed to bleed off?
\_ I thought there were several models of F15 after the -C?
\_ The F-15D is the two seater version of the -C.
The F-15E Strike Eagle is the ground attack/fighter
multi-role compromise. It does well, but due to the -15's
optimization as a highly maneuverable air surperiority
fighter, it's somewhat hard to control at low altitude
highspeed due to turbulence in those conditions.
There are also export version of the -15 to countries
like Japan, Israel and Saudi Arabia.
highspeed due to turbulence in those conditions. This
is also a problem with the F-16 in certain a-g strike
roles, again at low-altitude. There are also export
version of the F-15 to countries like Japan, Israel and
Saudi Arabia.
\_ The article says that the USAF faced numerical disadvantage in
the exercises. I don't think there's a single nation that can
pose that problem in real combat. As always, numerical
superiority helps a lot. There won't be much dogfighting
against F117s supported by AWACs.
\_ Various people on former Soviet miliary:
Quantity has a certain quality all its own.
\_ Dean Ing, "Systemic Shock", Ace books, 1981. Look up
"Wall of Lenin". -John
\_ BTW Indians just signed a contract to buy Isreali AWACS systems
mounted on russian transport planes. China is also close to
signing a deal for buying Russian AWACS systems (which are
supposedly inferior to Israeli ones but US objected to the
Phacon sale to China).
\_ The Israeli should name it Phalcon instead of Phacon.
Sounds nicer.
\_ Its common knowledge that USAF sandbags these demos. It
really means very little.
\_ What do you mean by "sandbags?" I've never heard that term
before.
\_ next guy who fires on our planes gets shelled with something larger
\_ Intentionally appearing weaker than you really are. I
think the term comes from poker:
http://www.fact-index.com/s/sa/sandbagging__poker_.html
\_ I think it comes from horse racing, where you would
tie bags of sand to your horse in trials to make
it appear slower. \_ corrected typo
\_ Holy nerdfest Batman! Where did all the armchair generals come from?
\_ do you live in Little India, errr, I mean, Sunnyvale?
\_ I love how this troll was brought back sans verbal diarrea that
originally followed it.
\_ the wonders of the magic motd archive.
\_ What is a wonder is that someone is deeply disturbed enough
to invest that much energy in the motd. This means you,
kchang.
\_ You shouldn't be so hard on kchang. His thing, with
some development, could have more useful applications
than the motd. Web-based version control, for example.
-- ilyas
\_ why dont you tell us about the stars you
frigging kchang sympathizer?
\_ Uh, w00t?
\_ Do you know each other?
\_ We never met. We exchanged a few emails. -- ilyas
\_ I am surprised that their saying that an upgraded Mig-21 could be
a formidable adversary for F-15c. Can an upgrade program really
improve that much the old vintage piece of junk that Mig-21 is?
If yes, the engineers at Mig had done a pretty darn good job.
\_ first of all, Mig 21 was not a junk at first place. Secondly,
I think when they talk about "upgrade," they are really talking
about builing a new plane based upon an old design, no? |
| 5/16 |