Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:July:09 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
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2004/7/9-11 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:32192 Activity:moderate
7/8     Oops--massive Mozilla/Firefox flaw:
        http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1621463,00.asp
        Guess that's one reason NOT to migrate to Mozilla.
        \_ and another reason not to use windows
        \_ Does this affect Netscape 6.x/7.x, as it seems they are Mozilla?
           If so, does one just apply the patch extension to Netscape 6.x/7.x,
           or can/should one download an entirely new version, like
           Firefox 0.9.2?
           \_ op here, URL http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=250180
           \_ (replying to myself)
              http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=250180
              says the bug affects "Trunk".  Netscape 7.x is branched from
              Mozilla 1.4 ... so this would imply it has the problem, unless
              the Netscape people fixed it themselves a long time ago.
              \_ (replying to myself)
                 I got over my laziness and downloaded a 7.1 just now.
                 It has the same bug.  I applied the official xpi patch
                 ("What Mozilla users should know ...") and it works.
        \_ Although technically this is a problem in Windoze, why doesn't
           Mozilla test against it, given it is SOOO obvious?  Think it as
           an malicious bug left by M$, shoulnd't Mozilla be more vigilant?
           \_ http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163767
              From the above link it looks like the suggestion to secure this
              hole was made in 2002, but they got into a long discussion and
              after the shell: vulnerability was published a couple days ago,
              they finally did a small fix for that.
        \_ See?  This never would have happened in a safe source product like
           IE.
           \_ ob The big hole from last week wasn't fully patched, and MS
              still officially recommends you turn off JavaScript while it's
              being fixed.
              \_ That's an entirely different issue and it's only been a
                 week.  The mozilla problem has been public for 2 years and
                 they decided to ignore it until people outside their nice
                 warm little cocoon complained about it.  Kinda screws up
                 that whole theory about more eyes = better code when the
                 hands don't do a thing to fix what the eyes saw.  This is
                 just pure laziness and a huge problem with the "scratch
                 an itch" concept.  I guess no one had an itch for the last
                 2 years to fix a known hole big enough to throw an
                 elephant herd through.
2004/7/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32193 Activity:very high
7/9     Bush military records destroyed. Bush has friends everywhere, it seems.
        Time for Fox Mulder - the Truth is out there!
        http://tinyurl.com/25ffq
        \_ So the payroll record is supposed to prove he's AWOLed for those
           couple of months? I guess they dock his pay?
           \_ This isn't a court of law.  This is politics.  He's being
              evasive and misdirecting on a question that should have
              a simple answer.
           \_ Actually, yes. Something like AWOL would have a financial,
              as well as disciplinary action.
        \_ Oh no! A politician who wields the power to recreate the past
           in his image. When will the madness stop!?
           \_ He who controls the past controls the future.  He who controls
              the present controls the past.  -Saying of The (Grand Old) Party
2004/7/9 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32194 Activity:insanely high
7/8     "No analyst is going to say they changed their view as a result of
        specific pressure. No analyst is going to admit that. But there is no
        doubt and this report reflects the fact that there was tremendous
        pressure inside the agency. As a matter of fact, [CIA Director George
        J.] Tenet himself said, and this report reflects that, that he was
        told by analysts that they were under tremendous pressure. And what
        Tenet said is, well, in that case, just try to ignore that pressure.
        But the pressure was clearly there." -Carl Levin, a senior Democrat on
        the Senate intelligence committee today
        \_ just wait--soon we'll be hearing from the GOP that the whole
           thing was the fault of the Democrats because they failed in their
           responsibility as the minority party to question the actions of the
           majority and mindlessly followed to avoid looking unpatriotic.
           for once, i'd be in agreement.
           \_ Further proof of motd axiom #4: anything a democrat does, evil.
              Anything a republican does, good.
              \_ careful, the poster you're responding to just might be a
                 Democrat
                 \_ if you mean that I hate the republicans, greens, socialists
                    and libertarians even *more* than I hate the democrats,
                    then yes, i guess i'm a democrat. -above poster
                    \_ I ve never understood the hatred of librarians.
                    \_ I ve never understood the hatred of libertarians
                       Do you just hate them in their capacity as a bookish
                       voting block?  Or do you have a problem with their
                       'live and let live' mentality? -- ilyas
                       \_ I'm going to assume you mean "libertarian."
                          I hate libertarians because it has been my
                          observation from reading stuff on their website,
                          reading publications of the self-proclaimed
                          libertarian cato institute, and reading motd
                          libertarian posts that while they claim to
                          care about freedom, they're really just for
                          corporate socialism.  When it comes to individual
                          freedoms, i agree with libertarians, but it seems
                          that their biggest issue is not with the freedom
                          of individuals but with the "freedom" of corporations
                          who in many cases have more power than any but
                          a handful of nations to do whatever they want.
                          This is a very simliar arguement to saying that
                          the "freedom" of governments must be preserved
                          by letting them oppress poeple, because that's what
                          governments do and they should have to the right to
                          do it.  when the government decides it has the right
                          to imprison citizens indefinitely based on secret
                          evidence, the libertarians are mostly silent, but
                          when the goverment tries to limit a corporations
                          "right" to kill people and cause birth defects
                          with pollution, they're up in arms.
                          \_ Some idiot changed my post.  Anyways, I don't
                             know where you get this thing about libertarian
                             silence.  Libertarians don't like the elements
                             of Bush policy involving the patriot act and
                             indefinite detention etc.  I certainly don't, and
                             said so before.
                             As for corporations, there are big
                             differences between corps and governments.  Corps
                             can't use force, for example.  Thus, while corps
                             are worth watching, governments are worth watching
                             ten times more.  I think it's a matter of picking
                             your villains.  There is no question in my mind
                             that corps do bad things.  But governments do bad
                             things too, and their bad things are much worse.
                             Look at Mogabe's [sp?] government, for example.
                               -- ilyas
                             \_ Corporations can't use force in the way of guns
                                (not counting mercenaries in countries we dont
                                like), but they can use almost any other kind
                                of force.  Their legal resources dwarf the
                                agerage citizen's.  They can basically buy laws
                                to make the governement do what they like
                                (within limits).  Ask someone who's had their
                                home taken away by eminent domain to build
                                a shopping mall whether the corporation or the
                                government used force.  Ask the good citizens
                                of Bohpal if a corporation's power is less
                                dangerous than their government.
                             differences between corps and governments.  Corps
                             can't use force, for example.  Thus, while corps
                             are worth watching, governments are worth watching
                             ten times more.  I think it's a matter of picking
                             your villains.  There is no question in my mind
                             that corps do bad things.  But governments do bad
                             things too, and their bad things are much worse.
                             Look at Mogabe's [sp?] government, for example.
                               -- ilyas
                                \_ I don't think you ll have a lot of luck
                                   blaming eminent domain abuses on corps.
                                   That's a government flavor of evil: "hey if
                                   we have a shopping mall on this land instead
                                   of this old grandma's home, we ll get a lot
                                   more taxes!"
                                   Libertarians really don't like eminent
                                   domain abuses, too.  Also, you seem to have
                                   \_ My great uncle's house was taken by
                                      eminent domain supposeadly to build a
                                      road.  He then found out the county was
                                      planning to sell the land to a
                                      politically-connected developer so the
                                      developer would essentially be able to
                                      buy commercial land at residential
                                      prices.  My G. Uncle sued to force them
                                      to build a road there.  This is in Clark
                                      County, NV.  There's a similar situation
                                      in NJ where Atlantic City tried to take
                                      someone's house to build a road to a
                                      parking lot for a Trump casino.  Is it
                                      really government being evil, or is it
                                      the power of corporations corrupting
                                      government?
                                      I guess you'd say government is
                                      dangerous because it wields power, while
                                      I'd say corporations are dangerous
                                      because they wield government.
                                   a weird way of assigning blame.  If the
                                   system is venal, who are more to blame: the
                                   folks who buy or the folks who are bought?
                                   I d say the latter, because if they acted
                                   morally, the former would be SOL. -- ilyas
                                   \_ In the current circumstance, the acts
                                      themselves are not _illegal_ on the part
                                      of the buyers; they're still unethical
                                      and immoral, and they contribute to the
                                      continuation of the corruption. It breaks
                                      the spirit of the Social Compact to game
                                      the system.
                                      \_ If the buyer is giving a kickback to
                                         someone in government, it is very
                                         illegal (though potentially hard to
                                         proove).
                                         \_ So now back to my original question,
                                            Did anything I say sound
                                            unreasonable to you? -- ilyas
                 \_ I think that's ok.  this is an axiom of the *motd*, not
                    reality.
2004/7/9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:32195 Activity:moderate
7/8     Yet more proof that BUSH LIED!
        http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040709/D83NB0AO0.html
        \_ You know before the war I remember reading about how the CIA
           was dragging its feet and refusing to admit that Iraq
           had WMDs which everyone else knew to be true.  Funny how now
           the CIA is now being blamed for the exact opposite.
           \_ Slam Dunk Tenet!
           \_ Yeah, but it seems we are among the very few who had that long
              a memory span.  But it says even more about the media, who
              have access to their own archives.  They are quite audacious.
2004/7/9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:32196 Activity:nil
7/8     This is amusing.
        http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39347
2004/7/9-11 [Consumer/CellPhone] UID:32197 Activity:high
7/9     Poll, enter your favourite/least favourite cell phone brands:
        Nokia: +6260 +8960 (love it!!!)
        Motorola: ---T720i (hate it)
        LG : Suprisingly good phones for not too much money.
        Nokia : Stop making tiny candybar phones!  Make some damn clamshells!
        Motorola: t720 was a steaming turd, but most have very good RF.
        Samsung: cheap, sturdy, long battery life, smallest flip phone
        Panasonic: 3-yr-old TX210, Can store multiple numbers and one e-mail
                addr under the same name entry.  Has just the basic functions
                that I need and no fancy stuff.  LCD can switch between green
                and amber manually as well as when it recognizes a caller ID,
                which was cool back then.  Ring tone is loud enough even
                placed in a handbag.  (My wife's Nokia isn't loud enough.)
        Motorola phones used to be great in the mid 90s. Then they started
           to suck a lot. Battery life sucks. GUI sucks. Everything sucks
           about it. Typical American engineering. Buy Nokia.
           \_ Motorola phones have been gaining some market share lately
              after a long decline.  The triplets (V300, V500, V600) seemed
              to be selling well.  Have you taken a second look lately?
              I work at Motorola, but I do systems, not phones.
              I still use my first phone, a clunky old cracked startac
              with a broken antenna which once fell into a river.  Ok,
              it was in my pocket when I jumped into the river to pull
              my canoe to shore.  So, you can see I don't know too much
              about phones, except what I read and heard.
              \_ When is the V710 going to be released? -me and 1 million other
                 people with no life.
                 \_ no idea, but if you use service from verizon, sprintpcs,
                    china unicom or kddi (japan), and the service sucks,
                    it could be because I've been slacking off.
                    \_ I have verizon and have great service.  I guess you
                       can call in sick next week.
        \_ I've dropped my Nokia candybar phone too many times to count. It's
           been stepped on, danced on, and juggled, and it still works. It's
           the Volvo of cell-phones: boxy, but safe.
           \_ Ditto here.  My 6310 has taken worlds of abuse, and still works.
              I miss usable bluetooth, though.  -John
           \_ the 8260 my gf had started failing all over.  I started
              scavenging my old 8260 to replace the speaker, screen, and
              finally, the base unit itself.  My gf is the ultimate test for
              phone durability.  The phone now has screen that goes away at
              times as well as the speaker.  But yeah, candybar style in
              general seem sturdier.  I doubt my sanyo clamshell will last
              a month in her care.
              \_ on the 82XX series, I found that slipping a small piece of
                 paper right above the screen seemed to fix the screen problem.
                 I love the Sanyo clamshell I just got so far, except for
                 small problem of dropped calls even with full signal.
        Motorola: t720 was a steaming turd, but most have very good RF.
        Samsung: cheap, sturdy, long battery life, smallest flip phone
        Panasonic: 3-yr-old TX210, Can store multiple numbers and one e-mail
                addr under the same name entry.  Has just the basic functions
                that I need and no fancy stuff.  LCD can switch between green
                and amber manually as well as when it recognizes a caller ID,
                which was cool back then.  Ring tone is loud enough even
                placed in a handbag.  (My wife's Nokia isn't loud enough.)
        Motorola phones used to be great in the mid 90s. Then they started
           to suck a lot. Battery life sucks. GUI sucks. Everything sucks
           about it. Typical American engineering. Buy Nokia.
           \_ Motorola phones have been gaining some market share lately
              after a long decline.  The triplets (V300, V500, V600) seemed
              to be selling well.  Have you taken a second look lately?
              I work at Motorola, but I do systems, not phones.
              I still use my first phone, a clunky old cracked startac
              with a broken antenna which once fell into a river.  Ok,
              it was in my pocket when I jumped into the river to pull
              my canoe to shore.  So, you can see I don't know too much
              about phones, except what I read and heard.
              \_ When is the V710 going to be released? -me and 1 million other
                 people with no life.
                 \_ no idea, but if you use service from verizon, sprintpcs,
                    china unicom or kddi (japan), and the service sucks,
                    it could be because I've been slacking off.
                    \_ I have verizon and have great service.  I guess you
                       can call in sick next week.
              \_ I love my two motorola v66 models (wife uses older one),
                 though after almost 3 years the battery is starting to fade on
                 one.  Wiating for them to top this model... maybe with upcoming
                 v1000.  Why are all the phones getting HEAVIER?? lament...
        \_ How are GUIs in LG and Samsung phones?
           \_ Haven't tried LG, but samsung's is better than sanyo.  But I have
              yet to see any other company make gui even comparable to nokia.
              \_ I dunno, there were quite a few things about my Motorola v120c
                 that I liked better than my Nokia 3160
           \_ I have an old LG VX1.  The GUI is a little clunky in some places
              but not bad once you get the hang of it.  It's also nice to be
              able to silence the ringer without opening the phone.  I've heard
              they improved the GUI slightly with the VX4400 and VX6000, but
              I haven't used one of those.
           \_ I like the GUI in the Samsung. The keys are so small that some
              times I hit the wrong one when I am browsing the net, and I
              have very small hands for a guy. But other than that, it is
              great I have a A530s.
        \_ I really like my LG phones. You should take a look at them.
           I had an old Nokia, their software (if you can even call it
           at that) is crap. Too many features to be desired (call
           with no caller id does not even record a time, no entry in
           missed calls, so frustrating) I then tried a Motorola
           phone, the 720 or something, its software leaves much to be
           desired, it's not bad, but just doesn't feel nice, the
           phone itself also feels kind of flimsy. Then I tried the
           LG-6000, boy, its software is almost perfect. I've been
           using it for 6 month now, and I can't really think of
           anything to complain about. They seem to have thoroughly
           designed every aspect of it, and it's very very nice. The
           hardware is nice, the software is first rate. It's a lean,
           mean phone that has everything you want in a phone. If you
           are looking for a PDA/phone combo, it's not it, but if you
           just want a good cell phone, this is it. You will not
           regret it. When UI is done right, it becomes 2nd nature.
2004/7/9-11 [Computer/HW/IO] UID:32198 Activity:high
7/9     Help, I use my Kinesis keyboard so often that some of the letters are
        starting to fade, what should I do?
        \_ do you really still look at them? (I'm assuming that those are the
           frequently used keys, which should mean you should just "know"
           where they are?)
        \_ Sharpie
           \_ one time I thought it would be cool to write all over my chest
              with a sharpie.  when I woke up the next morning, all the ink
              was gone, and i think i may have absorbed it into my skin.
              i felt pretty odd.  i'm not sure this is good for you.
              \_ night elves drank it.  you're ok except for the little bit of
                 your soul each one took with the ink.
                 \_ Are the night elves female?
                    \_ You might be thinking of the Wood Fairy.  She comes
                       out of the TV every night and is the cause of morning
                       wood.
                       \_ Then she hasn't done any real good.
           \_ one time i fell asleep drunk and i woke up with sharpie ink
              all over my face and body.
              \_ Dude!  Its like that one Sopranos episode!
           \_ I find sharpie doesn't work that well for keyboards.  I used
              to use it to write Korean letters on the keys to help me
              type in Korean, but it would always rub off after a week or
              so.  Stickers work better. -jrleek
              \_ why not use a sharpie, then put transparrent tape over it?
                 \_ why not go completely ghetto and put tape around the
                    broken spot on your glasses, too?  how's the pocket
                    protector?
        \_ in case you're wondering, my M, B, then D keys are starting to
           rub off. I'm guessing that they occur most frequently in the
           English language or in Java, I don't know. How about your keyboard,
           which keys rub off first?
           \_ :,w,q
           \_ Java, maybe, but not English where "e" is the most common letter.
           \_ eiasdklcbnm, in no particular order... just looking at my kb
           \_ s,t,f,u
           \_ S, X, C, left CTRL.  I use emacs.
              \_ stupid emacs user       -- vi camp
                 \_ pico!
                 \_ DUDE.  ED!
           \_ My spacebar is worn out!
              \_ too much usenet
2004/7/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32199 Activity:high
7/9     Senate Report Sees No Formal Iraq-Qaeda Ties.
        http://csua.org/u/84t (Yahoo! News)
        \_ How is it possible to have a formal tie to an organization such
           as Al Qaeda that has no official structure?
        \_ "there is no evidence" == "We just don't know!  There isn't
           anything confirming it, or anything to knock it down." -Dick Cheney
           \_ So, I am curious, does this kind of reasoning convince anyone?
              \_ Democrat _____ evil, Republican _____ good.
           \_ "There is a relationship" -Dubya
              "There were definitely links" -Dick
              "no established formal relationship" -Senate report
           \_ Before Cheney claimed the link was neither proven nor disproven
              he claimed it had "pretty much been confirmed".  When confronted
              about the contradiction he lied.  The lie occurred during
              a CNBC interview, I believe.
              \_ the problem is, there have been Iraq-Qaeda links; those *are*
                 pretty much confirmed
           \_ Does anybody like Cheney? Would you Bush lovers be happy with
              President Cheney?
              \_ it doesn't matter what they say now.  if cheney becomes
                 president, their republican media spinmasters will declare
                 him to be a Great Leader, and they will obey.
                 \_ Cheney rocks.  I'd vote for any ticket with Cheney on it.
                    I might even consider something as sickening as a Kerry/
                    Cheney ticket if Kerry had cancer or something.
                 \_ No, all they have to say is, "Do you trust Cheney or
                    Kerry?  Who do you trust to ensure the U.S. doesn't get
                    all blowed up?"
                    \_ So what?  Security isn't important?
                    \_ I have met both Cheney and Kerry (and Gore). I am
                       not sure I trust any of them, but in general they
                       get too much and too little credit at the same
                       time.
                \_ FWIW, One of my few republican friends is voting for Bush bc
                   of Cheney.
                   \_ If you were nicer, you'd have more friends.  We're
                      everywhere, we just don't tell you because you're all
                      such bastards about it.
2004/7/9-11 [Uncategorized] UID:32200 Activity:kinda low
7/9     What's a good multipage print program besides enscript? My sysadm
        is too lazy to install it and I don't know what other progs are
        available ok thx.
        \_ And your OS would be?
          \_ linux
        \_ a2ps
           \_ Wow.  Looks like a2ps > enscript.
        \_ it is not that hard to install enscript into your own account.
2004/7/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:32201 Activity:nil
7/9     U.S. NEWS obtains all classified annexes to report on Abu Ghraib
        http://www.usnews.com/usnews/usinfo/press/prison.htm
        The second half is where it gets good.
2004/7/9-10 [Industry/Startup, Health/Sleeping, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:32202 Activity:nil
7/9     http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20040709/od_nm/life_naps_dc
2004/7/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32203 Activity:moderate
7/9     This is a report that should concern all patriotic Americans,
        no matter what their political affiliation:
        http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001002.html
        \_ Like duhhh, apparently you've never been in either civil service
           or in the army. Where did you think the backronim "snafu" for
           Situation Normal, All Fucked Up comes from? This is also why
           tax breaks are good, because private citizens and enterprise
           are a lot more efficient at containing costs than the U.S. Gov't.
           Welcome to reality.
        \_ All Hail the Special Skills Draft!  All geeks to the Pentagon, hut
           hut!
           \_ Why would they want a bunch of smelly snarly know nothings?
              They want highly skilled technical people.  A very tiny number
              of motd readers have to even think about this.
2004/7/9-11 [Reference/BayArea] UID:32204 Activity:high
7/9     Is there a place in Berkeley/Oakland I can get Tshirts custom
        printed?  I knew a place ten years ago that did this but I have
        completely forgotten it.  Thanks for any recommendations.  --chris
        \_ Berkeley Steamworks
           \_ haha.  very funny.  --chris
                \_ I failed to see why this is funny...
                   \_ We find it funny because we're not gay like you.
        \_ Check out cafepresse (cafepress?) .com
2004/7/9-11 [Computer, Science, Academia/GradSchool] UID:32205 Activity:low
7/9     Subject: Graduate School

        A copy of your e-mail to our Admissions Office has been forwarded to
        me.  I will send you information about our graduate program,
        however, I wanted to be sure that Crop Science was the department
        you are interested in.  Your e-mail indicated a bachelors in
        computer science.

        Please let me know if your request was directed to the right
        department.
2004/7/9-10 [ERROR, uid:32206, category id '18005#7.575' has no name! , , Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:32206 Activity:very high
7/9     http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=40424
        Good news!  We're getting less liberal!
        \_ Any direction from here would be less liberal.
           \_ We should take the vote away from women and put the blacks
              back in chains! Damn liberalism!
2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:July:09 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>