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| 2004/7/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:31104 Activity:very high |
6/30 So the link:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124079,00.html
Regarding Moore's veracity has some troubles itself.
The number they give about vacations, excluding camp david trips,
assumes that every weekend was spent at camp david. This doesn't
jive with the month long vacations to Crawford. And excluding the
Camp David trips doesn't go all that far in negating Moore's point.
\_ So you agree that Moore is lying, you just disagree with the
specific numbers?
\_ Um, no. I'm saying Fox, even with an invalid qualifier,
got their numbers wrong. --scotsman
\_ But the point is still valid that Moore puts weekends at Camp
David as part of his "vacation" time. Is Moore's 42% number
exaggerated or not?
\_ Interesting. According to <DEAD>csua.org/u/80m<DEAD>
The first President Bush had a ratio of 37% per year if you include
weekends at Camp David. Was he slacking off?
\_ Moore's source for the 42% is almost certainly this article:
<DEAD>www.dke.org/haginranch.html<DEAD>
Interestingly, that was published in 8/2001 and said:
By the time President Bush returns to Washington on Labor Day
after the longest presidential vacation in 32 years, he will have
spent all or part of 54 days since the inauguration at his
parched but beloved ranch. That's almost a quarter of his
presidency.
Throw in four days last month at his parents' seaside estate in
Kennebunkport, Maine, and 38 full or partial days at the
presidential retreat at Camp David, and Bush will have spent 42
percent of his presidency at vacation spots or en route.
So the percentage is based on the first year up to the end of the
big vacation, including weekends at Camp David--which of course is
going to be much higher than the total percent for the first year,
and has been the highest percentage of the entire presidency.
It's a pretty disingenuous statistic unless all the qualifiers are
included.
\_ So FNC could be correct if they're talking about the entire
presidency while this article is talking about the most
vacation-filled part of Bush's presidency.
They counter the 7 minutes with a politic quote from L Hamilton.
Fallacy of Appeal to Authority (not to mention an authority that
the right screamed about for months as being a non-starter
witchhunt).
\_ Of course, I credible is FNC these days? If you've ever taken
\_ Of course, how credible is FNC these days? If you've ever taken
a look at "Lying Liars and the Liars the tell Them" there are
documented cases of people on FNC just flat out lying. And
unlike FNC, Franken actually presents evidence to back things
up when he accuses others of lying.
\_ So we disagree about the significance of the 7 mins. No biggie.
Moore turns it into something it isn't.
The news of Clarke having approved the saudi flights
didn't come out until June 1st, well after the Palme D'or was
handed down.
\_ So here Moore was just incompetent? No only did Clarke approve the
flights, but they didn't happen when US airspace was closed (which
is part of what Moore claims).
\_ Where do you get "incompetent"? He said what was general
knowledge at the time. Clarke retracted his statement
some time after the film was released. This goes to Clarke's
veracity. Not Moore's. --scotsman
\_ How is the White House magically not responsible for what
their cabinet does? The Cabinet are the closest direct
reports to the President and appointed by him. Bush can't
claim that he is not responsible for their actions, no matter
what Clarke tries to claim to deflect responsibility onto
himself.
Since I don't have a transcript, I can't address the
parts about the Taliban visit to Texas, but faulting Moore for
"not mentioning that THE CLINTON approved the visit" is pretty
hollow.
\_ Check the history then. The visit happened during the Clinton
administration. How is this hollow? He's blaming Bush for letting
the EVIL TALIBAN in when it wasn't Bush who did it.
\_ This is why I said "I don't have the transcript." But I'll grant
you, he did suggest it. And will you grant that the Bush admin-
istration suggested that saddam was involved with 9/11?
--scotsman
Moore has had plenty of harsh words about Clinton and
other democrats in his books. But he seemed to be comparing the
\_ That's right. When he's done with the right, he's coming
after you too. Be careful who you get into bed iwth.
tacit approval of THE CLINTON vs. the active support by THE BUSH
in regards to the Taliban. To wit:
But do not declare war and massacre more innocents. After
bin Laden's previous act of terror, our last elected
president went and bombed what he said was "bin Laden's
camp" in Afghanistan-but instead just killed civilians.
Then he bombed a factory in the Sudan, saying it was
"making chemical weapons." It turned out to be making
aspirin. Innocent people murdered by our Air Force.
Back in May, you gave the Taliban in Afghanistan $48
million dollars of our tax money. No free nation on earth
would give them a cent, but you gave them a gift of $48
million because they said they had "banned all drugs."
Because your drug war was more important than the actual
war the Taliban had inflicted on its own people, you
helped to fund the regime who had given refuge to the
very man you now say is responsible for killing my friend
on that plane and for killing the friends of families of
thousands and thousands of people.
\_ This is a big lie. The money was to a relief fund administered by
the UN to relieve the FAMINE in Afghanistan.
\_ How 'bout the Cato Institute's take?
http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-02-02.html
\_ Cato is anti-american. Boycott Cato!
\_ While CATO is useful to find stuff, I can't rely on them
alone. Every news story I find about this says the $43M was
in "additional emergency aid" and was the result of
perceived efforts in reducing the poppy harvest (which was
wrong). It doesn't say it went to the Taliban, and it
doesn't say how the funds were administered. My
understanding is that it was through the UN and was typical
aid (food, clothing, medicine, etc.). Do you have any
reason for believing it was a cash payment to the Taliban as
Moore suggests?
\_ Cato does not say (though kind of impies) that the money
\_ CATO does not say (though kind of impies) that the money
went to the Taliban. As far as I can tell that untruth
originated in an LA times, by (yet another leftist liar)
Robert Scheer. However, if you think that the taliban
got no part/control/benefit of that money (to say, give
building contracts to their cronies) then
you don't understand how international aid works in
autocratic 3rd world countries, even if it was
administered "though NGOs" by the U.N.
\_ So Moore is arguing that we shouldn't give aid to
countries with totalitarian leaders?
\_ I don't know about Moore, but I like that
argument. --erikred
\_ Moore said that we gave the Taliban in Afghanistan $48M
dollars. He did not say what the aid went for. He simply
say that we gave it. You call this "a big lie" yet you
agree with him that the money went to Afghanistan, which
was controlled by the Taliban at the time. How is this
a lie, again? It matters not if the money went directly
to the Taliban or indirectly helped them by supporting
their government and substituting for tax money they
would have had to spend on the same programs anyway.
--scotsman |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Uncategorized] UID:31105 Activity:nil |
7/1 For whoever was wondering if reeser is good looking, perhaps this
is more what you're looking for? http://www.askthetechgirl.com |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:31106 Activity:insanely high |
7/1 Using sed, how do I do the following? I want to replace the
first line containing a particular pattern with the 2nd line
containing said pattern. For example, if "line" is the pattern,
then I want
this is the 1st line
this is the 2nd
this is the 3rd
this is the 4th line
to become
this is the 4th line
this is the 2nd
this is the 3rd
this is the 1st line (Actually, I don't care if this line
shows up like this or gets deleted.)
\_ stupid to do this in sed. use perl.
\_ OK, how do I do this in perl?
\_ while ( $line = <> ){
if ( $line !~ /line/ ) {
$output[$count++]=$line;
next;
}
if ( ! $firstline ) {
$firstline = $line;
$firstindex = $count++;
} else {
$output[$firstindex]=$line;
$output[$count++]=$firstline;
}
}
print foreach @output;
# (Approximately) -tom
\_ You don't need the "foreach"
\_ Just for fun, how can this be done using sed?
\_ sed is short for "stream editor". It's designed to look at
the input one line at a time. making it handle line operations
is unholy, and possibly illegal in most states.
\_ there is nothing fun about doing this in sed. -tom
\_ lots of things can be fun if you're avoiding more important
work. here it is:
sed -e '/line/\!bS;:M;$\!N;s/\n.*line/&/;tE;$\!bM;:E;s/^\([^\n]*\)\(\n.
*\n\)\([^\n]*\)$/\3\2\1/;:S'
this swaps the 2N-1'th and the 2N'th lines matching "line"
for all possible N. if there is an odd number of such
lines, the last one is left in place. note that the
3 "!"'s are \-escaped for tcsh; your shell might
differ. naturally, s/line/foo/g to change pattern.
tested on gnu sed 3.02. inserting a few newlines will
make this work on soda's sed as well:
sed -e '/line/\!bS\
:M\
$\!N;s/\n.*line/&/;tE\
$\!bM\
:E\
s/^\([^\n]*\)\(\n.*\n\)\([^\n]*\)$/\3\2\1/;\
:S'
-alexf
\_ alexf = leet sed god
\_ s/leet sed god/bored new sed user/ -alexf
\_ sed rules!!!
\-first, i probably wouldnt do this in sed either.
it may be doable in sed but your description isnt
complete, so i cant suggest a solution. do you just
want to *swap* 1st match of regexp with second match
of regexp? finally, sed can certainly do non-line
based things more easily than say grep. see e.g.
the , operator. --psb
\_ I want the first line that matches regexp to
be replaced with the 2nd line that contains
regexp. The entire line need not match regexp,
but only contain it. But I want the entire
first line (that contains a match to regexp) to
be essentially overwritten by the next line that
contains a match to regexp. -op
\_ rpn calculator written in sed:
http://sed.sourceforge.net/local/scripts/dc.sed.html
\_ just curious, why do you want to do this? seems kinda weird.
\_ he's trying to troll ilyas into writing it in ocaml |
| 2004/7/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:31107 Activity:insanely high 72%like:31117 |
7/1 Liars and cheaters have bigger brains:
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996090
\_ They need them, keeping track of all the lies.
\_ Explains why Democrats are "smarter" than Republicans.
\_ Republicans use their money to buy their lies, and cheat
people out of their money.
\_ In monkeys and apes. |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Science/GlobalWarming, Science/Physics] UID:31108 Activity:very high |
7/1 Light might have been slower 2 billion yrs ago:
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996092
\_ Just in case you don't know, http://newscientist.com is about as reliable
a source for science news as *name-of-random-tabloid* for news.
\_ any better sources?
\_ <DEAD>sciencenews.org<DEAD>, and <DEAD>physicstoday.org<DEAD> for physics.
There must be others, but be warned that they are
all boring: the more reliable the more boring.
More generally, science != news != entertainment.
\_ Uh, Nature? Departmental hearsay? Anything? -- ilyas
\_ Just by reading the article, I have no clue whether it's real or
fake. Are you saying that the article is a hoax, or it's just
flawed science? |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:31109 Activity:low |
7/1 http://www.awitness.org/news/december_2001/osama_nose_job.html |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Uncategorized] UID:31110 Activity:high |
`7/1 In win32 programming is there an overridable function or event that
occurs just after the window and controls are fully constructed and
displayed? Same question for wxWindows.
\_ In win32, usually after the default procedure handles WM_CREATE.
WM_INITDIALOG is sent for dialog boxes. |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:31111 Activity:very high |
7/1 I don't get what all the hoopla is with the Irish interview of Bush.
I haven't watched the video, but based on the transcript, it seems
to me like he gave reasonable responses to all the tough questions.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/06/20040625-2.html
When I read that Bush "lost it" in the interview, I thought he
Howard-Dean lost-it. Or Steve Ballmer lost-it.
\_ I see the interviewer was an *@#hole.
\_ And I see you're a fucking prude!
\_ I don't know that there's that much hoopla. He did that "let me
finish! please! can i finish?" thing a billion times which is
funny though. That interviewer seemed kind of unintelligent
though, unable to explain the point about the world being less
safe. There is a rational argument to be made there but she just
said (twice) "i don't know if you can see that".
\_ Well, yeah. The interviewer was being really rude. Maybe
he should have just walked out after the 3rd time. It
looked to me like Bush handled it really well.
\_ walking out could have looked pretty bad. i think the
interviewer was just impatient with the predictable answers,
but it's her own fault for not asking the right questions.
\_ I have to admit that I thought the question about God
guiding him was pretty funny.
\_ Just listened the an audio version. Interviewer comes off
badly. Bush comes off as pretty competent for someone
constantly bashed for his poor public speaking.
\_ link? |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:31112 Activity:very high |
7/1 <DEAD>www.smartmoney.com/onthestreet<DEAD> "There's no question that the FERC has leaned over backward to protect the industry at the expense of California," says Peter Navarro, associate professor of economics and public policy at the University of California at Irvine. "[Vice President Dick] Cheney in the middle of the crisis blamed the whole thing on environmental regulations that were too stringent. That was absurd. Now, we know that there was considerable market manipulation going on." \_ Fuck Cheney, capitalist scumbag at its best!! \_ The power generation and power distribution industry is very far from a free market. is very far from being a free market. \_ Go back to your butcher shop, Lupo. |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Uncategorized] UID:31113 Activity:high |
7/1 How come the ones you can't get always look so much better than
the ones you can??!!
\_ Old jungle saying: The grass is always greener.
\_ Why do you think it is that you can't get them?
\_ 'Cause you are ugly, smelly, and dumb. |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:31114 Activity:very high |
7/1 Saddam uses same hand gestures as Clinton, (ie: thumb) scary...
\_ that is a very common gesture among politicians, McCain
uses it quite frequently as well
\_ It's called "gesticulating," don't they teach you people
anything in school anymore? I mean, c'mon, there are
words for these things...
\_ Lamentably no. My gastronomic rapacity knows no satieties.
\_ Don't disturb his wingnut fantasy with your facts. |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:31115 Activity:very high |
7/1 Hey Pro-China guy: Are you trolling, or do you really think people
should stop blaming China?
\_ The PRC is the People's paradise on earth! The freedom from
evil capitalism and soul-crushing corporations have been
brought by the glorious revolution. China only has the most
altrustic motives for Asia! The Evil Bush is trying to claim
that China violates it's citizen's civil rights, but nothing
could be further from the truth! No one has died in China
since the revolustion, the joy and peace of the revolution have
since the revolution, the joy and peace of the revolution have
made all Chinese immortal! Move to China today!
-Pro-China guy #1 fan.
\_ I just think the media is very biased about China. It is a
great country, the majority of people are happy, life is
\_ tanklguy was awesome
improving, the economy is doing well. Sure, there are a lot
of things that can be done better, but the progress it has
made in the last 10-15 years is second to none. Out of the
\_ funny, I don't know what media, you read, but the media
I read pretty much says this about china, and little
else (well, recently there has been some "can it keep up
the pace") -phuqm
millions of stories that happen each day in China, the only
thing that gets reported in the western media is how bad
the Chinese government is. Oh, they did this, Oh they did
that. Give me a break. Some would very much like to see
China go the way of the Soviet and break up into pieces, do
you really think that's good for the Chinese people?
Democracy needs to come from within, not forced upon by
some bully. There are better things to worry about in this
country, like how BushCo fucked California and laughed all
the way to the bank.
\_ Yeah so when democracy comes from within, you should crush it
with tanks, right? BTW, what was the name of that guy who
stood in front of the tank? The one the entire world saw on
film? Oh that's right, we don't and will never know his name
because shortly after that was filmed he was taken to an
alley and shot in the head.
\_ They're still looking for the tank guy.
\_ So why can't the media report about Hong Kongers being unhappy
over freedoms they've lost since China took over? I mean,
200K+ people in HK really did get out to protest today.
I was not posting about China people being unhappy; I was
posting about Hong Kong people being unhappy.
\_ Goes to show that Taiwan should not unite with PRC
anytime soon.
\_ recent WSJ journal articles reported on the rise of many
middle class rooted, non-governmental organizations in
China including home owners' associations which fight
for the rights and interests of various communities of
home owners, thousands of environmental groups, etc.
Non-governmental organizations are important building
blocks for democracy, since they bunch like-minded
individuals together and give them support (finance,
expertise, organizational) and voice. Without them, it's
just the all-powerful government and powerless individuals.
Sounds like a very positive article to me. In fact,
many of the WSJ articles about China are very fair
and balanced, in my opinion. That's not to say that
some US media are very anti-China.
some US media aren't very anti-China.
\_ Until the Chinese government outlaws these organizations as
being anti-revolution and puts a bunch of their leaders into
insane asylums.
\_ they may try, but will they be successful? do not
underestimate the power of hundreds of millions of
little bourgeoisies. the population make up of
china has shifted in the past 3 decades.
\_ I am suspecting that the Chinse Communist Party will
fall out of power as hardliners die off. Never
underestimate the power of apathy. |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:31116 Activity:very high |
7/1 If democracy is so great, why are sodans still piss poor? Where the
MAJORITY does not get represented, but rather the few elite
and rich gets to control pretty much everything and the others
are treated as 2nd, 3rd, 4th class citizen? Explain that to
me. Most of the old officers you see on soda are from the
higher class, so they are very different from your average
user. What they need is a visionary leader that would
abandon their class system, but under 'democracy', they never
will. Some users will always be low class citizen, like
slaves.
\_ You're right, democracy is a big sham. The People must rule,
although since we're too stupid our Great Leader will rule for us,
in his magnificent benevolence! All hail the Great People's Leader!
All dissidents are evil imperialist lackeys, and must be reported to
your local People's Information Bureau at once!
\_ America's a republic, not a pure democracy. Majority rule is not
always a good thing.
\_ I know nothing about India, but I will point out that no one
ever claimed democracy was perfect, it's just the best thing
we've come up with so far. Of course the perfect government
would be a single person who always makes the right descisions.
If you can find any such person, I will be happy to live under
them.
\_ see. Kingdom of God where God is King
\_ We don't have the tech for a perfect society yet, even with
perfect decisions. Right now rough edges are unavoidable, maybe
this will change in a few hundred years. -- ilyas
\_ Yeah, we'll write a computer program to rule us all. Like in
the game Deus Ex.
\_ That's not the problem. The problem is scarcity and
insufficient understanding of genetics and aging. Those
problems will eventually go away, and that is what will
transform society, I think. -- ilyas
\_ There's always scarcity of land, even if you somehow
get free energy. This is worse if genetics and aging are
solved. The western oil-economies are comparitively
pretty rich today... I wonder what transformation you
expect to see?
\_ I heard a projection that the world's population will
stabilize at 11 bil. Most advanced countries today
are either breaking even or their population is
declining (with the notable exception of the US, due
to immigration and other 'exceptionalist' issues).
We are not going to run out of land, that's 19th
century Malthusian thought. The 'transformation'
I am talking about will have to do with the
elimination of most current political issues once
certain kinds of economic scarcities go away. Our
society is already very different because information
can be copied at virtually no cost in time or
money. -- ilyas
\_ Well, I don't think birthrates can easily be
predicted, and some land is likely to always be
more desirable than others. Western families
have to work to maintain their lifestyle and don't
have much time.
\_ You jest, but I think Ilya would actually suggest something
along those lines - although I think his term was
"benign dictator."
\_ But we already have the Illuminati!
\_ You don't seem to know much about India or Indian politics.
Most of the people in power today are members of the lowest
castes. Due to "enlightened" social policy (quota, &c.) most
high paying powerful government jobs are available only to
members of the lowest castes. These people, having little
or no social conscience, do little to help their fellow man,
prefering instead to shuttle public resources into their
own private domains.
own private domains. Its not that democracy doesn't work,
it is that it does. India is full of low caste uneducated
people and these are the same people who are ruling the
nation.
FYI, the elite of Indian society, the brahmins (about 1-2% of
the population), were usually among the poorest of all (for
various religious reasons). The idea that somehow they
systematically oppressed and continue to oppress the
lower classes/castes is ridiculous. In fact, most brahmins
leave India because they find that the social setup makes
it next to impossible for them to succeed.
The only way in which I find that one may blame brahmins
for the woes of India, is this: Nehru was a brahmin. He
was stupid enough to implement a command economy instead
of a open and free market. This ruined India for decades.
Thus if one man represents his caste, it is possible to
say that the brahmins ruined India.
\-mr. anon above: just out of curiosity can you
tell me where you "learned" all of this?
it is so far off, it's not worth correcting
but i am curious where it came from. --psb
\_ My parents are from India. Some
of my family is still there. I
frequently visit there.
I don't know which part you find
issue with, but this is what I
have seen and read about.
\_ There is nasty affirmative action in India which makes it
really really tough for Brahmins and Kshatriyas. Stupidity
doesn't end at US borders, it seems. -- ilyas
\_ Is it tougher for them than for members of the toilet
sweeping and rat catcher castes?
\_ As far as, for example, university admissions... yeah.
Ask any indian. -- ilyas
\_ how many indians have you asked? and did you ask
them what their castes are?
\_ I don't understand why this is relevant. Everyone I
know who is from India says this. You can google for
additional evidence on this. Do you think I am lying
or something? Ask Partha. -- ilyas
\_ I know there is something similar to affirmative
action in India. Please explain why it is "nasty"
and "stupid". And why it is "really really tough"
for Brahmins. Do you really know enough about
India to say that?
\_ In the words of Tyler Durden: "This conversation
is over." -- ilyas
\_ difficult to admit you have no clue what
you are talking about, eh?
\_ yes. A brahmin needs close to a perfect score on
an entrance exam, whereas a "rat catcher" only
needs 25%. Do you really want water quality
inspected by someone who got in with a 25%?
How about your health inspectors? Sometimes
it doesn't matter that you are "backwards",
there needs to be min standards.
\_ Are you a brahmin? If not, what caste are you from?
And what is your caste all about?
\_ Yes I am a brahmin. |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Uncategorized] UID:31117 Activity:high 72%like:31107 |
7/1 Liars and cheaters have bigger brains:
\_ if you want censor them, censor them all.
\_ 'Cuz a liar needs to remember both the real version of the story and
his/her version of the story. Sometimes the liar needs to remember
his/her multiple versions of the story. -- someone whose mom is a
chronic liar |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:31118 Activity:high |
7/1 Polish troops find wmd:
http://tinyurl.com/2fakx (story.news.yahoo.com)
\_ NO WMDS! FALSE PREMISES!
\_ Oooh. 16 warheads filled with mustard and sarin gas...Definitely
one step away from a mushroom cloud.
\_ This is the funniest thing about the "Bush lied" crowd.
"Sure he was breaking his treaties and UN laws, but he
wasn't breaking them ENOUGH." As if there was some sort of
objective measure of how much you can break a law before
you're considered a criminal.
\_ Nobody disputes that he was a bad man and a criminal. What we
on the left dispute is whether it was worthwhile to invade,
and if it was, we question the motives behind the invasion in
light of the fact that there were lots of other bad men to
go after. One of them was named Osama something...
\_ Which country is this Osama guy in charge of?
\_ Another false premise: that we can only go after one guy
at a time.
\_ No, it's not a false premise. We don't even have enough
troops to properly secure Iraq, so we're leaving the
new government of Afghanistan to fend for themselves.
As a result, they control only the capitol and the
Taliban is regrouping in the countryside.
\_ so you want another 130,000 troops in Afghanistan
so we can piss off people in two islamic countries
at the same time and surround iran with large forces
on both sides so we really would look like we're
ready to militarily take over the rest of the middle
east. please say you don't work in PR.
\_ That's not what I said. I said we don't have the
resources to take on two countries at once. We
shouldn't have invaded Iraq while we were still
busy with Afghanistan. There was not any
urgent need to invade Iraq. Except for political
reasons, it could have waited indefinitely.
\_ 16 here, 5 there, 7 over there and a few others everyday and
suddenly you've got a WMD program. What surprises me about
the Bush lied crowd is it makes no sense. If there were none,
and Bush knew it, why would he use that for the reason to
attack? They had several options, WMD wasn't the only reason
we could have attacked. So why choose something if you know
it isn't true?
\_ Because he arrogantly believed that it wouldn't matter after
the Iraqi people welcomed us with open arms and united to
create a perfect democracy in the Middle East. They didn't,
so it ended up mattering. As for the WMD program, wait for
the analysis of the warheads before making any judgements--
if they turn out to be relics of the Desert Storm age, you're
going to look very silly.
\_ As a "Bush lied" person, this is my take on it: He used WMD
as a casus beli because it garnered much more popular
support than removing Saddam and doing the "nation building"
Bush disavowed in the persidential debates. Bush knew there
would be leftovers from the Iran/Iraq war. He suspected there
were nastier weapons but didn't have any proof, but he
figured proof would turn up after the invasion. So he said
they had WMD based on a false hunch. That makes him a liar.
If he said "We think they might have WMD." that would have
made him not a liar, but it makes for a lousy speach. |
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