6/30    It's too damn early.

6/30    US Govt. recommends: Use a different web browser.
        http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/713878
        \_ That's why I use IE for work but Netscape to surf other stuff.

6/30    Most. Boring. Motd. Ever.
        \_ It was pretty interesting, but the Humorless Anonymous MOTD Censor
           had a go at it.  Now it sucks ass.
        \_ yermom was keeping me busy
        \_ read old archived motd, they're always entertaining
        \_ why don't you post a gun control or free speech link, that
           always brings the k00ks out of the woodwork.

6/30    Does anyone else occasionally have extreme slowdown/crashes when
        they load a PDF in FireFox? I've had this problem on several machines
        w/ versions 0.7, .8 and .9.
        \_ i've been getting crashes in both firefox and ie. must be adobe.
        \_ Reader 4 > Reader 5 >> Reader 6
           \_ until you get a file that only R6 can read.
        \_ I just make it launch reader/preview/gv instead of loading the
           plugin; much more reliable.

6/30    Car question:  How long do your brake pads last, generally?  I'm
        talking highway and surface street driving, not off-roading.
        \_ Depends on the type of car and on your driving habits. Brakes
           generally last longer for cars than for suv/mini-vans. If you
           ride the brakes, then the life will be significantly reduced.
           My exp. has been that brake pads last at least 25K miles and
           usually between 30K and 40K miles.
           \_ More general statement than "cars vs. suv/mini-vans" is
              that lighter the car, longer the pads will last, assuming
              similar driving styles.
              BTW, replace them yourself.  Drums are a bit messy, but
              discs are really easy.
              \_ I wouldn't trust my life on my own automotive repair skills.
                 \_ seconded
                 \_ but you might save $20!!!!
                 \_ As opposed to HS dropouts who doze off during mechanics
                    training?
                 \_ So you would trust your life on some complete idiotic
                    stranger who earns minimum wage rather than yourself?
        \_ every 45K for me. 80% freeway 20% others

6/30    Heya -- quick question: How much dust, debris, etc would a megaton
        level nuke toss up into the air?  How long does it take before %95 of
        it settles back to earth?  If good reference links could be provided,
        that would be greatly appreciated.  TIA.

6/30    Fucking spammers. Even after using spamassassin and using sa-learn
        on every single spam I get, I still get about 10 a day. I seriously
        hope those guys get a nice ass raping in jail.
        \_ Thanks for sharing.
        \_ I firmly believe that the only solution to the spam problem will be
           vigilantism.  And I mean hiring a guy named Vinny to go break a
           spammer's thumbs.
                \_ fuck vinny, send in the special forces
           \_ We used to talk about this in grad school a lot, going to find
              the script kiddies who broke into our machines. We thought we'd
              figure out who it is (== snot-nosed 14 year old from Ohio),
              take a roadtrip, and surprise the kid's parents when they'd
              come home and find their kid duct-taped, spreadeagled, upside
              down attached to their garage door.
              \_ Cf. The Big Lebowski
              \_ why are you workstations on public net?  NAT is exists in
                 part to protect people like you from yourselves on the
                 dangerous public network you're not ready for.
           \_ You can still click a mouse without a thumb.
              \_ "If you disable your enemy's hand, he cannot press a button.
                  Medic!".
        \_ I run something that works.  All that's slipped through in the
           last month are 3 0 body messages and 2 spams.  So keep looking,
           maybe you'll find a spam filter that works for you.
        \_ I use SA.  About 1 spam per week makes it to my inbox.  The rest
           goes to my spam folder.  About 1 ham per month gets in the spam box.
           \_ You manually go search for ham among hundreds of messages?

6/30    What is the proper number of years to depreciate a new passenger car?
        \_ Japanese or American?
           \_ 10 years, 5 years
           \_ Volkswagon
              \_ 2 years
        \_ African or European?
           \_ 1/2 year, 2 years

6/30    This just in!  Anonymous source reports Dick Cheney rapes dogs!

6/30    People complain that Moore and Franken call themselves "comedians", but
        how come there is no MOTD talk about Jon Stewart? Do repubs hate him
        less bc he is willing to make fun of loser democrats as well as bush?
        \_ jon stewart calls himself a comedian too.
           \_ I think that jon stuart doesn't try to be serious sometimes, then
              hide behing the "hey I'm just a comedian" when he says something
              stupid. The way that Franken (and P.J. O'rouke for that matter)
              do.  Jon pretty much always has the attitude that "hey, i'm just
              a guy doing comedy".  He does, though, have the best take on the
              martha stewart conviction:
http://www.comedycentral.com/mp/play.php?reposid=/multimedia/tds/headlines/8108
.html
                http://tinyurl.com/3g5qt (comedycentral.com)
              Also, Jon is clearly a California Democrat, but he is not some
              by-the-book liberal-democrat the way Franken and Moore are.
              \_ Jon Stewart is very much a liberal, but he's also not afraid
                 to point out stupidity no matter who puts it out there.  He's
                 also very fair to his guests, Repub or Dem, and he'll often
                 call the audience to task for dissing a guest. (One exception:
                 the guy who wrote a book proposing a link between Iraq and
                 al Qaeda got pretty short shrift, but hell, the man was
                 really asking for it.)
                 \_ he was really nice to richard perle, don't know why
                \_ Yeah, that was surprising how he treated that guy.  I
                   watch pretty much every episode and I've never seen him
                   do that.  But, the guest was clearly trying to capitalize
                   on a lie, and he knew it, so Stuart just called it for
                   what it was.
                 \_ Yeah, that was surprising how he treated that guy.  I watch
                    pretty much every episode and I've never seen him do that.
                    But, the guest was clearly trying to capitalize on a lie,
                    and he knew it, so Stuart just called it for what it was.
                    \_ Jon did try to give the guy some credit by suggesting
                       that perhaps the recent capitulation could be traced to
                       the invasion, but then the guy himself pointed out that
                       Libya funded the recent assassination plot against the
                       Saudis.  Really, there was no helping that guy.
                    \_ As opposed to the tongue kiss he gave Michael Moore who
                       is capitalizing on several lies.
                       \_ Name one.
                          \_ Where have you been?  These links have been posted
                             more than once to the motd, and are very easy to
                             find, unless you restrict your google search to
                             site:indymedia.org like you probably do...
                             http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723 - for the new.
                             http://bowlingfortruth.com - for the previous.
                             \_ The hitchens article blathers a whole lot
                                without saying much of substance. Please point
                                out the specific lies in question.

6/30    http://www.drudgereport.com/kerryhrc.htm
        Anonymous insider claims that Hillary is going to be Kerry's VP pick.
        \_ Where's that hilarious motd troll who claimed that Drudge was never
           wrong?  He needs to be properly mocked again.
           \_ No.  Drudge was wrong once which he got sued for.  The rest of
              his stuff is either links to other sites or like this URL make
              it clear he is quoting a single anonymous source.  He leaves it
              for the reader to decide.  Try again.
              \_ So you see absolutely nothing wrong with publicizing
                 false accusations from single anonymous sources?  Wow, you are
                 really amoral.
                 \_ Now you're confusing morals with the accuracy of his
                    publication.  I see no difference between this URL and the
                    same anonymous sources getting quoted all the time in the
                    newspapers.  Do you?
                    \_ For one, the anonymous source says nothing definitive
                       so the whole quote is meaningless.  But in fact, I see
                       no difference on the whole.  Reporting single anonymous
                       sources without any effort to confirm their allegations,
                       as Drudge routinely does, is amoral.  If I have a very
                       popular publication and I get a phone call in the middle
                       of the night telling me that Dick Cheney rapes dogs, I
                       have a responsibility to try and confirm that before I
                       print it.  Are you familiar with the concept of libel?
                       And yes, I know US libel law requires malicious intent.
        \_ Bush it is!
        \_ The best part about this non-credible non-story is that there is no
           definite gotcha in the quotes - the "insider" is speculating just as
           much as Drudge is, reporting Capitol hill gossip and giving his
           opinion of what it means.  It doesn't even qualify as decent hearsay
           Why do people pay attention to Drudge again?
           \_ It's hearsay about speculation about hearsay.
              That's a *kind* of evidence.  -Lionel Hutz
              \_ Wrong!
                 "Well, Your Honor. We've plenty of hearsay and conjecture.
                  Those are *kinds* of evidence."

6/30    Why do 35mm color negatives look like they are brown/ clear when
        viewed with the naked eye?  It seems like you should be able to
        see the colors with your naked eye?  Also movie reels?
        \_ That's the normal cast of the negative film medium itself.  You
           should still be able to see different colors if the original scene
           is colorful enough.  The colors you see on the negatives are
           reciprocal to the original colors (plus the brown cast).  That's why
           they are called negatives.  Movies are also shot on negatives, but
           the images are somehow transferred to silde films which are sent to
           the cinemas.

6/30    This is so fucked up. The TV stations gets fined for Janet's
        breast showing? I'd say Janet or Justin Timberlake should be
        fined big time. Janet can claim she's innocent, but that
        fucker Justin Timberlake should be fined a few million dollars
        for his act.
        \_ Oh, she just happened to be wearing a removable top.  I'm sure it
           was a total surprise what he did.
           \_ Get with the times!  Everyone knows removable pull tops are *the*
              thing today!  It was simply a wardrobe malfunction and no one is
              to blame.  As usual.
              \_ You're an idiot.  One that's clearly been locked in a closet.
                 I suppose it's possible you could be anti-sports boy, and
                 avoid the telly lest you get even a HINT of something
                 sportsy (which would explain your lack of clue).
                 \_ once again, sarcasm-detection fails.
                 \_ Uh?  Are you ok?  WTF are you tryign to say here?  Who even
                    mentioned sports?  Weirdo.
                    \_ Uhm, no I'm NOT okay DAMMIT!  Someone broke into my
                       apartment and raped my dog?  How would you feel if your
                       credit card got rejected, huh?
        \_ If it was solely Justin's fault, how come Janet didn't blame the
           whole thing on him, and sue him and stuff?
        \_ The most fucked up part isn't the breast but the fact that the ads
           run during the superbowl contained far more lascivious imagery than
           Janet's boob hanging out - but since it was an ACTUAL nipple everyone
           got all in a tizzy.
           \_ Why does it surprise you that people would be more upset with
              reality than non-reality?

6/30    Is it just me or it seems that the quality of cell phone has been
        going down a lot?
        \_ You mean the phone or the reception?
        \_ Phones?  I don't know.  Coverage?  I'd say it's improved. -verizon
        \_ I think cell phones are getting so complicated that you can't use
           most of the functions without reading a manual first.
           \_ Some phones have better menus than others.
        \_ It just you.  Quality cell phone been same long time!

6/30    What's a good free ISO burner for XP? ok thx
        \_ burn4free.  http://download.burn4free.com  Does just about
           everything else you want from a burner as well, it's great.
           \_ http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/isorecorder.htm
              is free and doesn't include NavHelper.  Same author wrote
              CreateCD for command-line burning.

6/30    Nepal buddhist put in solitary confinement for 24/hr * 3 month for
        unknowingly videotaping outside a FBI building.
          http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/30/nyregion/30deport.final.html
        And recently a NYT photographer was prevented form taking picture
        of Times-Warner building.  Will it now get someone in trouble if he
        takes pictures on the street with major landmark or government
        building in the line of sight?  It doesn't matter if he will
        eventually get out.
        \_ Four more years!  Leader Bush is teh greatest!
           \_ And this will change under kerry because..?
        \_ I don't want Iranian nationals taking pictures of landmarks in my
           country. -allenp
           \_ Why not? --iranian national.
           \_ While we're rattling sabers with each other. -allenp
              \_ Better just ban all tourists from taking any pictures. You
                 never know who might be our enemy tomorrow.  Thank goodness
                 Eastasia is our ally.
                 \_ w00t!
                 \_ Now, _that_ was a funny edit. Nice.
        \_ "Ignorance of the law is no excuse, for it can always be
           faked."  That said, the real problem here is the unbelieveable
           bueracuracy that infests our government.  Look at the INS.
           Just ridiculous.
        \_ He was on an expired visa.  That's life.  Maybe he can tell
           his friends to obey our immigration laws and then there's no
           problem.  We should have forced him to refund US taxpayers
           the cost of jail and trial before release.  I'm sure FBI
           agents have more important concerns than this twit.
           \_ Not only that.  He was *working* with an expired *tourist* visa.
              \_ So deport him.  If you want him punished, work out a treaty
                 the law, and staying of a tourist visa is too.
                 with Nepal where they punish their citizens for violating
                 your immigration laws.
                 \_ That's what the FBI agent in charge was trying to do,
                    and he eventually got him out.
           \_ Are you a tax lawyer? Then you've almost certainly committed
              tax fraud and mail fraud.  When they come to lock you up, please
              remember what you've written today.
              \_ Bad analogy.  This guy knew he was breaking immigration
                 law wide open.  You don't have to be an immigration
                 lawyer to know that working on a tourist visa is against
                 the law, and staying of a tourist visa is too.
                 \_ straw man.  The penalty for working on an expired visa
                    is deportation, not 3 months of jail.  -tom
                    \_ Wrong-o, Tom-o. Or at least you're responding to
                       the wrong question.  I didn't say anything about
                       the punishment being just.  I just pointed out
                       that this fellows analogy was wrong.  That's not a
                       straw man.
                       \_ 'Wrong-o, Tom-o'?  What the fuck is wrong with you?
                          \_ I get too much fun out of life.
                 \_ No analogy being made here. If you're not a tax lawyer,
                    you have almost certainly violated some minor part of the
                    byzantine US tax codes. If you show no sympathy for a man
                    who was put in solitary confinement for 3 months for
                    working on an expired visa, expect no sympathy when the
                    powers that be arrest and detain you on the pretext of
                    tax and mail fraud.
                    \_ "No analogy?" Your whole argument us based on a bad
                       analogy, That purposely breaking a well known low
                       in 2 different ways is somehow analgus to breaking
                       an extrememly obscure law unintentionally.
        \_ Here is the correct article non PC title:  Greedy Nepalese
           Flaunts US Laws and Distracts FBI from Pursuing Terrorists.
           He is responsible for his decision to
           break our laws when we are under terrorist attack.
           He is lucky to have gotten off as easy as he did.
           BTW this is classic NYTimes bias.
           \_ Wait, so its only an objective headline if its worded like a
              news report in Starship Troopers?
              \_ Motd Poster is flaming asshole and rabid propagandist!
                 Click here to learn more!
              \_ Do you want to see more?
           \_ I think, what you are saying is, he was lucky because:
              (1) He was kept in solitary, he wasn't raped, he was only
                  strip-searched
              (2) It was only three months, could have been a year+
              (3) He could be in Guantanamo, he was in Brooklyn
              (4) He eventually got to talk to a lawyer
              (5) He had a senior FBI agent helping him
              (6) He got a free ticket back to Nepal, didn't have to pay
                  any fines, and did manage to send $37K back to his family
              (7) He broke important laws during a very sensitive time,
                  he should accept the consequences
                  \_ If rape is inevitable, sit back and enjoy it!

6/30    Eclipse 3.0 is out, lots of cool new features.  Is there a way to
        revert to the old W2k look?  The XP tints look out of place.
        \_ Nevermind: Preferences/Workbench/Appearance/Current Presentation:
           set it to R21Presentation.

6/30    Google may have stolen the code for orkut:
        http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,64046,00.html
        \_ Sensationalist, and overblown.  He may have written the code while
           working for them.  They may have exclusive rights to the code. And
           perhaps not.
        \_ We should put the greedy turk in solitary confinement for 3 yr.
           \_ "I've never seen a man take so quickly to a Turkish prison"
        \_ IANAL, but it seems to me the proper target of a suit like this
           would be the programmer, for breach of contract, theft of
           intellectual property, etc.  The employer using it can hardly
           be expected to keep track of all its employees previous
           obligations... a temporary restraining order would seem more
           appropriate for google...
                \_ How do you get a temporary restraining order? You
                   usually have to sue.

6/30    Cassini images of Saturn (and its moons) returning.  Now why does
        it feel like I'm playing Starflight?
        http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/cassini/multimedia/pia06400.html
        \_ Incidentally, does anyone know of a more recent Starflight-like
           game?  I ve been looking for something like that for years now.
             -- ilyas

6/30    Poll, how many people use the followings?
        mehlhaff's motd,v: ....
        kais motd:...
        \_ I don't use it because it's not text/command line based. Also
           I don't use software written by fags
           \_ if you snd/rcv mail on soda then you do. just logging
              in and posting to the motd probably means you're using
              software written by a fag, at least indirectly.
              \_ that's because soda sucks and uses sendmail instead of qmail.
                 what does uclink use?
                 \_ uclink uses /dev/null as its mta; it no longer exists
                 \_ That might have been a good argument, 5 years ago.  But
                    djb is a lofty thinker who doesn't care much about
                    interoperation, extensibility, and many other things.
                    Sendmail has gotten better.  Qmail hasn't.
           \_ why do you hate queer people?
        \_ I don't use it because I don't even know about it.
        wrote my own archiver: .
        yermom: .
        \_ i mostly use mehlhaff's. I set up my own once but then thought it's
           pointless to duplicate the effort. mehlhaff usually keeps his stuff
           going pretty well. i have visited kais a few times but it's too
           much of a bother for my usual usage. maybe if it had a better
           interface with links/lynx.

6/30    Gmail Q:   I already got my first peice of uncaught spam.
        I'm not 100% sure from the subject, though, so I want to open it.
        I don't want to read any images from their server (obvi) and I don't
        see a config setting for that.  Is there one that I have just missed?
        \_ gmail doesn't seem to show me images by default anyways.
        \_ You can't use lynx or elinks?

6/30    I have a ps file probably made from a (la)tex source but I do not have
        access to the source.  ps2pdf renders it but only with totally ugly
        result - the fonts look like scaled up bitmaps.  How do I make it look
        normal?
        \_ Try a more recent version of ghostscript.

6/30    is reeser hot?
        \_ well, email her.
        \_ 2hot4U
        \_ no, she's butt ugly. She used to have a blurred/soft focus
           portrait picture on her web site and she was pretty ugly in it.
           Now imagine her in real person...
        \_ ask her for one. If she sends you one, you can find out yourself.
           If she doesn't send you one, then most likely she's ugly.
           \_ Who are you who are so wise in the ways of h07 42n ch1x?
        \_ well I don't know your definition of hot, but personally I think
           that she is smart, sophisticated, and interesting to talk to
                           -person who knew her personally in the late 90s
                \_ in another word she is ugly
           \_ she's also pretty cute, imho  -another anonymous motd denizen
           \_ I think she is hot. -AMCoward
        \_ It's all relative (she makes chialea look like a goddess)
           \_ and of course this anonymous MOTD dweeb is the paragon of
              male beauty.  -tom
           \_ The motd is a cruel little place sometimes. -- seen both
              \_ picP.  One of the two certainly looked like anti-goddess in
                 pic.
                 \_ Kettle, this is the pot calling.  You're black.
                    \_ Why are you so defensive?  Look is just buy attribute
                       of a person, and a very superficial one by its nature.
                       They may be visually unappealing but intelligent,
                       sophisticated, and wise.  Would they rather be M Monroe?
                       \_ Taking potshots at people on soda because of their
                          looks is cheap and ultimately destined to bite you
                          in the ass.  If you want to say that someone's hot,
                          go for it.  If you want to say that someone doesn't
                          meet your aesthetic standards, learn to supress.
        \_ Yah, rhys is hot.
                \_ do you value truth or kindness more? I value the former,
                   so cruelty is the way to go
                   \- gee do you think star trek novels are greater works
                      of lit than say the odyssey? that ayn rand is the
                      epitome of philosophy? there are an infinity of true
                      facts ... most of them without meaning or value. --psb

6/30    How do you tell who has the motd.public lock?
        \_ fstat(1)

6/30    How do the kids in Battle Royale II make it off the island and
        back to Afghanistan? My bootleg copy omits the last few minutes
        of the movie. -  the MILF man
        \_ thanks for spoiling it for us.
                \_ Darth is Luke's dad, Rosebud is the goddamn sled
                   and the chick in the crying game is a guy. - the MILF man
                   \_ Which movie is the second sentence referring to?
                      \_ Citizen Kane. Only one of the most highly
                         regarded movies ever.
        \_ Still, how did those two kids get back to Afghanistan? - the MILF man
        \_ Who cares!?  That movie was so shitty, it's a waste of time
           even talking about it.  I'm outta here.

6/30    I'm being oppressed by Bay Area liberals!
        http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/ts20030306.shtml
        \_ Why has he forgotten about hispanics?  Their population rise
           all across bay area.  In a sense, you can say they are driving
           out the blacks and putting increasing pressure on the asians.
           \_ Stop bringing facts into the equation.
           \_ This is plain stupid, and racist. I use to live in a black
                                        \- hello, are you saying Thomas
                                           Sowell is a racist who hates
                                           black people? --psb
                                           \_ I think he is referring to
                                              the motd commentator, as
                                              indicated by the indentation,
                                              not the Thomas Sowell article.
              neighborhood. I still live at the same address, but most of
              this area is now filled with white people (near Alamo Square
              in SF). They tend to be young wealthy-enough white yuppies
              who are buying victorians in the area. They have bought out
              the black families who use to own these homes, and who knows
              where they've gone now. The only blacks in the area live in
              the nearby projects.
              \_ have you caught gay yet?
                 \_ only for you.
        \_ So the solution isn't to make sure all races have equal access to
           education so that you can have a nice mix of affluent races in the
           area, but rather to kill open spaces that are one of the things that
           make many bay area communities such a nice place to live.  Good plan!!
           \_ Wow, you're really stupid.  He's a nationally syndicated
              columnist.  That page has all his columns, and yet you know
              nothing of his opinions, and instead of finding out, (by
              reading one of his columns about education) you make really
              stupid assumptions.  Way to go!
              \_ yeah, if you read more of his opinions, you'd realize he's
                 a total wack job and not waste your time responding to his
                 idiocy
                 \_ I'm not sure who the object of this sentence is.

6/30    Prostitutes ready to work overtime for family-friendly Republican
        National Convention!
        http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/story/206962p-178564c.html
        \_ Bringing back the Times Square of Reagan's day!
        \_ And here I thought putting most of the Repub delegates in hotels
           in Hillcrest was inspired.

6/30    http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,12589,1240819,00.html
        Hezbollah offers help distributing Farenheit 9/11.
        \_ see, they are nice people after all
           \_ "Hizbollah condemns this horrible act [Nick Berg beheading] that
              has done very great harm to Islam and Muslims by this group that
              claims affiliation to the religion of mercy, compassion and
              humane principles."
              \_ Yeah, they really prefer mass murders over a single killing in
                 a more intimate setting.  Are you really defending Hezbollah?
                 \_ You will note that, without making judgments about them,
                    Hizbollah (dammit I hate the way everyone writes Arabic
                    words differently) is following a long-established pattern
                    of guerilla/terrorist/independence groups to attempt to
                    re-organize and legitimate itself politically and
                    militarily.  Draw some parallels with the Viet Cong.
                    Just an observation.  -John
                    \_ Hezbollah would do better to follow a different pattern
                       focused more on military targets than civilian targets.
                       Neither the Viet Cong, the Basque ETA, nor the IRA
                       won significant gains for their causes through attacks
                       on civilians.
                 \_ Take a second to think.  And to notice that it's in
                    quotes.  This was their (Hezbollah) press release.
                    Reading comprehension courses are available...
                 \_ Why do you hate America?

6/30    http://www.mailinator.net/mailinator/Welcome.do
        Can be very useful. After http://bugmenot.com, this looks like a very
        neat site.
        \_ This is cool.  You might also like http://spamgourmet.com (which doesn't
           make your email public, and doesn't delete it after a few hours;
           however, it does require you to sign up).
           \_ or sneakemail.
        \_ I don't get it. Why not just create a specific spam account and use
           that for these throwaway things? Seems easier than dealing with
           these services.

6/30    "Voters are being pressured by employers and others to back
        pro-Beijing candidates and encouraged to photograph marked ballots
        with cell phone cameras to prove their patriotism."
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16223-2004Jun29.html
        \_ Sounds like a good market for faked photographs.
        \_ Well, now that we're wriggling out of Iraq, maybe we can make
           strong staments against China again.
           \_ Exactly. How else can BushCo fuck the tax payer's money to make
              them rich? China is the perfect 'enemy' after Iraq. Do we all
              remember the spy plane incident? Yeah, they have us believe
              China would nuke us any minute back then. Fuck BushCo, piece
              of shit.
               \_ I'm not a big fan of the rambling haters on the motd
                  either, but I don't think it is fair to impersonate/
                  charicature them like this, as perhaps (though it seems
                  unlikeley) someone will think it is an earnest post.
                  \_ Who's he impersonating, Lupo the Butcher?
        \_ So what?
           \_ You are in a maze of ignorance, surrounded by twisty passages,
              all alike.  I wish you would be eaten by a Grue.
              \_ Stop criticizing China and spend your time on more
                 productive things, like vote Bush down and make sure
                 this country is not as fucked up as it is now. Geez.
                 What's next? Bush will send our spy planes to fly
                 REAL close to China and to provoke them to distract
                 us from his incompetence? Yeah, China is the biggest
                 threat to peace on this planet next to Iraq huh?
                 \_ The Washington Post is criticizing China.
                    The Post is also criticizing Bush policy.
                    Why not do both?
                    \_ I am just so fed up seeing all the anti-China
                       posts. BushCo stirs it up for its own evil
                       reason and the media buys it. Everything you
                       see in the media about China is negative. All
                       because of what? Because BushCo wants a public
                       enemy so they can dump the taxpayer's money
                       onto the defense companies and make them rich.
                       The problem with defense companies is they
                       don't go together peace and prosperity. BushCo
                       will get rich when the world is at war, and it
                       is what we are now. Wake up people, there are
                       bigger things to worry about than China trying
                       to convince its voters to vote for pro-beijing
                       leaders to keep their country intact.
                       \_ "convince" its voters
                           \_ Of course. China does not have laws that
                              legalize corruption. Political
                              contribution IS corruption legalized. In
                              China, some gets their head chopped off
                              for taking money, in the US, it's all
                              OK. Candidates openly ask for money, and
                              Bush surely made anyone contributed to
                              his campaign filthy rich, all legalized
                              and taken for granted. Perhaps there's a
                              lot China can learn from the US....
                              \_ Why is there a protest of 200K+ Hong Kongers
                                 today? http://csua.org/u/80h
                                 \_ Because HK people have been
                                    brainwashed for centuries by the
                                    Brits. They'd rather lick the feet
                                    of a Brit than stand up and be a
                                    man themselves. If your country is
                                    occupied by someone else for so
                                    long, you'll know. Just look at
                                    Taiwan, they still 'look up' to
                                    Japan, even though Japan invaded
                                    them and treated them like 2nd
                                    class citizen. Same thing with HK.
                                    HK people are gutless because they
                                    never ruled themselves. Having a
                                    Brits at the top makes them feel
                                    more secure, because that's the
                                    way they are brought up to believe
                                    in. Anything mainland China say
                                    must be wrong.
                                    \_ This is such an awful troll. Most
                                       HK people have only been there since
                                       the 50's or 60's.  If you think Beijing
                                       knows what's best for HK then I don't
                                       know what to tell you.
                                        -jeffwong
                                    \_ I'm sorry, did you miss the Cultural
                                       Revolution, the Gang of Four, and
                                       Tianamen Square?  PRC elites treat their
                                       own people like 2nd class citizens.
                                       Sure, bribery is punishable by death,
                                       but you're much more likely to be
                                       charged if you don't belong the Party
                                       and toe the party line.  It's not a
                                       People's Paradise; it's an old-fashioned
                                       oligarchy, and it needs to be squished.
                                       \_ Every attempt to squish an oligarchy
                                          results in a new and much worse
                                          obligarchy.  Communism is an example.
                                    \_ uh oh ... I don't like BushCo's
                                       fear-mongering with regard to
                                       China, but I like Hong Kong
                                       people's resistance to China's
                                       attempts to silence dissent.
                                       I don't see any contradiction
                                       with holding both views.  Attempts
                                       to link the two is mostly unwarranted.