Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:26 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/6/26 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:31017 Activity:high
6/26    Well, here is one person who thinks Michael Moore hates America, and
        provides evidence to back it up:
        \_ I have been told by conservatives that NYT is biased and op-ed
           cannot be trusted.
        \_ so, anyone who don't like Bush hates America?  This is good shit.
           It is the American version of what used to called "counter-
        \_ Criticism is not hatred.  People here are, on balance, under/un-
           educated.  We have a long track history of supporting despots and
           utilizing third world labor at very low wages.  We use our military
           to protect our corporate interests around the world.  Moore believes
           these aspects are wrong, and speaks against them.  You can argue
           whether these aspects of our relationship with the world and among
           ourselves make us stronger or not, but to say Moore "hates America"
           because of these statements is a straw man. -scotsman
           \_ If you ask any of these 'low wage' workers they will beg to be
              'exploited' in order to earn a wage and feed their family.
              The notion that third world societies can instantly propel
              themselves to a first world standard of living only if they
              were paid more is silly.  ALL capitalist Western economies
              progressed through requisite stages where workers endured
              hardship.  As long as the fruits of their labor are reinvested
              in their economies, as they are where most US corporations
              operate, and their societies nuture the political and economic
              policies that promote growth (not socialism), they win.  But
              somehow I suspect you'd prefer a proletariat revolution.
              With respect to supporting despots, this was an expediency of
              the Cold War, which history unequivocally vindicates.  One
              only need compare S. to N. Korea and Chile to Cuba.
              \_ Tell that to the families of 20,000 desaparecidos in Chile.
                 This is exactly the point.  Your whole argument is based
                 upon the necessity of our (US) supremacy.  Globalism based
                 on first world first is akin to regressive tax structure.
                 In the long run it's merely imperial, untenable.  People
                 won't stand for it.
                 Also, I'm not suggesting that higher wages will fix the 3rd
                 world's problems.  But rather than trying to control all the
                 resources from the raw material to the consumer, we could
                 work to foster entrepreneurship in these countries and have
                 an actual global market place with true local ownership.
                 Our country was granted a shortcut by history with the seeds
                 of our industry being sown under imperial rule.  Fortunately
                 for us, England didn't have the war tech of a superpower.  We
                 were able to buck them off, and now reap the benefits.  This
                 new global economy is basically of the same imperial character
                 but with a seemingly insurmountable military force to back it
                 Final point, no I don't prefer a proletariat revolution,
                 though I'm terrified that one could come in my lifetime.
                 I'd prefer that we learn from history and tread lightly in
                 the imperial snake pit. --scotsman
                 --Final final point.  I really don't know where you pulled
                 the assertion that I was championing socialism from.  You
                 need to watch the knee jerking if you want to have a decent
              \_ In response to the expidiency of supporting despots, you
                 should also think about the failures: the Shah in Iran
                 (we installed him and overthrew a democratically elected
                 prime minister leading to the current theocracy), Saddam in
                 Iraq, and others.
2004/6/26 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:31018 Activity:nil
6/25    I am having trouble sending mail using Outlook XP (Mac) from my
        hotmail account to any non-hotmail account.  Sending to hotmail
        account works just fine.  How do I get around this problem?
2004/6/26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:31019 Activity:high
6/25    Just saw F9/11. Pretty disappointing. I'm quite upset that it won
        Cannes. It had some humourous moments, but other than "Bush sucks"
        didn't have a thesis or strong underlying theme. I don't think it'll
        help Busy get unseated in any way. The music seemed to stand out more
        than the movie.--liberal dem.
        \_ Am I supposed to get enlightened by The Birth of A Nation or
           Triumph of the Will?  Well, no, but that does not mean they are
           not first-rate films.  I doubt F9/11 is because MM's prevous work
           seemed stupid to me, regardless of politics.  But in the age of Rush
           and Fox, F9/11 is a natural and necessary response in an
           escalating media arms race.
           \_ Did you watch F9/11? The concept of the "necessary and natural"
              response is a good one, I just don't think it was that effective.
              I think his other movies (R&M, B4C) were better/funnier/more
2004/6/26-27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:31020 Activity:high
6/26    Why do we have sanctions on Cuba?
        \_ Because when Castro ousted Batista, he made ouvertures to the
           Kennedy government, who didn't like his leftist leanings.  There
           followed a spiral of tit-for-tat, at some point the Cubans
           nationalized most corporate possessions, which the Americans didn't
           like, we organized and fucked-up an invasion, the Cubans got cozy
           with the Soviets, who put missiles there, which we risked a
           nuclear war to (successfully) get out.  The sanctions came
           about in the early '60s to try and force Castro out of office, and
           have been propagated for a number of reasons, including not liking
           commies in our back yard, Cuban human rights violations, and
           obstinate right-wing Cuban expats in Florida.  Look up the Helms-
           Burton act and the history of the United Fruit Company for
           starters.  -John
           \_ I wouldn't call the Florida Cubans right wing.  I would call
              them ardently anti-Castro.  They're a one-platform political
        \_ To drive up the cost of Cuban cigars.
        \_ because we got pissed off by Cuba's decision to become an
           independent country than a colony of United States.
           \_Wow, time to get your head out of your ass and read up on
             basic 20th Century American history. How's the smell down there?
           \_ w00t!
             \_ how about next time you actually try to respond intelligently
        \_ hard to say,.  I think we're just waiting for castro to die now.
           the cuba sanctions are pretty pointless
           \_ Again, it amazes one how clueless supposedly intelligent people
              are. We have sanctions against cuba because of the expatriot
              cuban vote in Florida. C'mon, guys, you can't be that behind
              politics in America, can you?
              \_ so the entire country has sanctions against cuba because
                 of how a subset of floridians feel? i don't follow...
                 \_ Cuba has been the Soviets client state throughout
                    Castro's reign.  On behalf of the Soviets Cubans trained
                    many of the Arab terrorists we fight today and sent
                        \_ judging by how much money we sent to pakistan
                           and afghanistan, i bet we trained way more
                           arab terrorists than the cubans.  plus
                           the soviets aren't a threat anymore, they all
                           move to UCLA to be armchair historians.
                           \_ That's what we want you to think. -- ilyas
                           \_  You don't know what you are talking about.
                    troops to Nicaraugua, Zaire, Angola, and Algeria, among
                    others.  The axis today between Castro, De Silva, and
                    Chavez is destroying South America.
                    \_ Chavez is in a lot of trouble.  There's no doubt in
                       my mind the US has a lot to do with it.  US foreign
                       policy successes (by their very nature) never get
                       publicized until much much later. -- ilyas
                       \_ you make laugh
                          \_ He has something to say.  You're a low grade
        \_ Because we can, the best of all reasons.
           \- The US mania over cuba has consequences beyond bilateral
              relations and domestic politics. It's gone beyond "mere"
              mutual neglect. e.g. Helms-Burton. --psb
           \_ stupid.  we *can* destroy the whole fucking world.  but we
              don't.  we *can* invade and take over all the annoying
              EU countries that needle us constantly.  but we don't.  we
              can do a lot of things that would be emotionally satisfying,
              but we don't.  you're an idiot.
2004/6/26 [Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:31021 Activity:nil 66%like:34574 66%like:35126
6/25    [fuck you]
2004/6/26-27 [Health/Women] UID:31022 Activity:nil
6/26    Baby Held Hostage, Stabbed in Standoff (w Prev. Deported Alien)
        \_ innocent women and children killed by US.
2004/6/26-27 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:31023 Activity:nil
6/26    Is there something wrong with Soda's webserver?  I can't reach
        \_ its borken for the same reason df is borken. i'm trying to
           find someone geographically closer then i to the csua
              fixed. - erikk
2004/6/26-27 [Uncategorized] UID:31024 Activity:nil
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:26 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>