Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:23 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/6/23 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30964 Activity:very high
6/23    Read the interrogation memos yourself:
        Start with Feb. 1, 2002 (John Ashcroft's letter), it's short.
        Then go to Feb. 7, 2002 (Bush's memo).
        Now, my question:  Why isn't anyone talking about the "UN Convention
        Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or
        Punishment", which I believe should apply to everyone, al Qaeda
        Anyway, those two are really short reads, and it's interesting to
        see how the AP mischaracterizes some parts.
        \_ Another point is the Geneva Convention covers warfare between nation
           states, the Bush administration decided the taliban and
           al-queda are not valid nation states, so the geneva
           convention does not apply to such prisoners.  I don't
           agree at all but that's their reasoning.
           \_ Yeah, to put it succinctly, if you read the two memos I
              highlighted --
              Ashcroft said:  Afghanistan is a failed state!  Therefore,
                              GC does not apply to Taliban.
              Bush said:  I accept what Ashcroft said (and if he's wrong,
                          he takes all the blame).  But, I still say the
                          Taliban should be covered by GC, but I reserve
                          the right to remove GC coverage later.
           \_ Conversely, it's therefore okay for non-nation states to torture
              others since they are not signatories of the Geneva Convention.
              \_ It's not quite conversely.  Let's say al Qaeda chops off
                 heads in Iraq.  Then they could be prosecuted by the Iraqi
                 government for murder, or extradited to the U.S.  The
                 difference is, that if the U.S. tortures al Qaeda people
                 in Guantanamo, no one cares.  If the U.S. abuses an
                 al Qaeda suspect who turns out to be innocent and people
                 complain about it, then you have problems.
                 \_ If the US doesn't torture a guy who had information that
                    would have lead to saving thousands more American lives,
                    you'd be the first to bitch about it and blame Bush.
        \_ Okay, I'm answering my own question:
           See United States of America.  On signing, the USA made an
           exception for itself.  They took out "degrading".  Haha, I can't
           believe it was that straightforward.  Hahahahaha ... it's totally
           legal for U.S. forces to treat those not covered by GC in a
           degrading way.  This is what Bush means by never condoning torture
           or anything illegal, which is "true".
           Also, see this for the legal aspects behind torture at Guantanamo:
           Bottom line:  It's *all* legal!
                         (if they wanted to use torture there)
           \_ Well, the beating to death stuff is still illegal.
           \_ According to what you've posted, making prisoners stand naked
              would be acceptable.  Sexual assault, violence, and murder,
              however, would still be considered inhumane and would therefore
              constitute violations of the conventions.  In other words, Pfc
              England would be within the good zone if she just pointed, but
              would be in the bad zone if she touched.
              \_ Sexual assault, violence, and murder would be legal for
                 an al Qaeda member at Guantanamo.  Iraq is fully covered
                 by GC, on the other hand.  This is the Bybee memo that
                 the Bush adminstration has been disavowing as "too broad,
                 theoretical" for the last two days.
                 \_ No, murder, sexual assault (rape), and some forms of
                    violence would still not be ok.
                    \_ Not according to the Bush Administration. Well,
                       they would be "not okay" by policy, but Bush
                       claims that he is above the law and that the
                       Administration could not be punished by any
                       judge or legislative act. So the prison guards
                       could rape away without fear of any punishment
                       if that was Administration policy. Or so they
                       \_ Bullshit.  Show me where Bush said murder and rape
                          are ok in any American controlled prison.
                       \_ Don't forget:  Iraq, it's not legal; Guantanamo,
                          legal for al Qaeda members. -op
                    \_ That's right, torture/killing of al Qaeda members at
                       Guantanamo is "not okay" (Bush said don't do it), but
                       it's "legal".  Big difference. -op
                       \_ Torture, yes, of course.  Killing, no.  It is
                          intellectually dishonest to use "torture/killing"
                          as a one word phrase when only one part of it is
                          \_ Let's put it this way:  If an al Qaeda member
                             ends up dead at Guantanamo from a torture session
                             gone wrong, what charge will be brought?
                             Can we at least say that this manner of killing
                             is legal, as determined by the Bush adminstration?
2004/6/23 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:30965 Activity:kinda low
6/23    Does anyone SSH via scotch.csua, port 80?  I am seeing a lot of
        lag via scotch versus SSH directly to csua.  I want to confirm
        this before emailing root.
        \_ network lag is more widespread on scotch then just ssh tunneling.
           looking into it - erikk
2004/6/23 [Reference/BayArea, Transportation/Car] UID:30966 Activity:very high
6/23    Does street sweeping actually serve a purpose, or is this just another
        Big Government conspiracy to give sinecures to the well-connected?
        \_ You think the well-connected are driving street sweepers and
           parking control vehicles?
        \_ It keeps things looking nice, and in many places generates extra
           revenue from parking tickets.  win win!
           \_ It also prevents trash from accumulating inside storm drains
              so when the rains come, you don't get clogged drains/sewers.
              \_ At the west end of the Sunset district in SF, sand from the
                 beach is a bigger problem than trash, and the streets are
                 swept twice a week.
        \_ It probably does not have to be done every week, but when you
           see places where it's not done regularly, you will notice!
           \_ Many places in oakland, it's every other night.  Seems more like
              a money grab to me.
              \_ Many businesses hose down the area in front of their stores.
                 The trash that accumulates there ends up in the gutter.
                 Without street cleaning, all of that ends up in drains/sewers.
                 Flooding ensues.
                 \-in my neighborhood, weekly seems excessive [p'hill, SF].
                   i think it is a patronage system [more street sweeping
                   volume = more jobs to be handed out by the city, or larger
                   contract]. as well as a revenue system. i think the fines
                   are way to high [i think they are $40 in SF now]. --psb
                   \_ You are giving way too much credit for such low level
                      patronage. And if the fine were cheaper, they'd never
                      get some SF streets swept.
                          \- can you explain to me why the blocked fire hydrant
                             fine is lower than the street sweeping fine?
                             because the leaves in the gutters spontaneously
                             ignite? how about cracking down on illegitimate
                             handicapped permits. my understanding is there
                             are more of thise permits issued in SF than there
                             are parking meters. --psb
                             \- hmm according to a different source, the FH
                                may $50 vs $40. --psb
                             \_ Because if your car is in the way, the fire
                                department can destroy it to reach the hydrant.
                                Fines are meant to deter, not overly punish.
                                \_ Not quite.  Fines are meant to be pesky. Low
                                   enough that it doesn't deter, high enough
                                   to be worth paying the issuer.  I'll go back
                                   to the Oakland example.  You can't find
                                   parking anywhere around  Grand.  It's 2
                                   in the morning.  You're exhausted.  The
                                   street sweeping time ends at 3.  Is it
                                   worth $30 to drive around for 1/2hr trying
                                   to find a different spot, or to go to
                                   Merritt Diner until 3?  Sometimes yes,
                                   sometimes no.
                      \_ lol. spoken like someone who's never tried to get
                         a low level job working for a big city or known anyone
                         who has.
                         know the right person -> city job -> sit on your ass
                         and get >50k/yr
                         This low level patronage system is what makes the
                         Democratic party power machine work in big cities...
                         how do you think that the corrupt Democratic mayors
                         keep their ironclad support from the Unions for
                         \_ Your tinfoil hat's crooked.
                         \_ Obviously someone who doesn't understand what true
                            patronage is. Street sweeping, while not overly
                            difficult. Hardly falls under patronage.
                            \_ You.  Have.  Some.  Punctuation.  Difficulties.
                               \_ Uhm...he has *one*.
                                  \_ But it's a really stupid one.
        \_ If you want to see sinecure in action, check out the guys who
           clean up the parks; on any given morning, they spend 2-3 hours
           sitting in their trucks reading newspapers.
           \_ I cleaned up peoples park for a couple weeks.  most of the
              people cleaning the parks are doing community service because
              they did something stupid and are carrying out some sort of
           \_ Just because municipal employees are overpaid and lazy doesn't
              mean they got their jobs through patronage (at least the
              low-level employees).  It's hard to fire someone and there's not
              too much pressure for good performance.
2004/6/23 [Recreation/Activities] UID:30967 Activity:low
6/23    Helo has anyone been to vernal/nevada falls in the last couple of
        weeks. I am wondering if the falls are running high or low.
        I will be in the area soon and am wondering if worth the detour
        [will be more inclined to go, if water is high]. ok tnx.
        \_ should be fine at this time of the year.  how high do you
           want it to be, like during the big washout?
        \_ i was there about a month ago and did the mist trail and nevada
           hike... the upper rim trails were still closed w/ snow and
           the falls were pretty full (reminded me of wet years in
           the early 80s when i was a kid).  a ranger we spoke to thought they
           were already peaking for the season.  i'm sure they're still pretty
           nice.  several ephemeral falls were flowing last month including
           one ov er the royal arches that i don't remember.  --karlcz
           \_ p.s.
2004/6/23 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:30968 Activity:nil
6/23    Viral therapy for cocaine addicts:
        \_ It's technically more like gene therapy, with a virus used
           as the delivery vector.  I worked on something tangentially
           related to this a few years ago.
2004/6/23 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:30969 Activity:insanely high
6/23    Why Do You Hate America, not a straw man:
        HANNITY: (to attorney Stanley Cohen) "Is it you hate this
        president or that you hate America?" (4/30/03)

        HANNITY: "Governor, why wouldn't anyone want to say the Pledge
        of Allegiance, unless they detested their own country or were ignorant
        of its greatness?" (6/12/03)

        HANNITY: "You could explain something about your magazine,
        [the Nation]. Lisa Featherstone writing about the hate
        America march, the [anti-war] march that took place over the
        weekend..." (1/22/03)

        HANNITY: "'I hate America.' This is the extreme left. There
        is a portion of the left -- not everybody who's left -- that
        does hate this country and blame this country for the
        ills of the world..." (1/23/02)

        HANNITY: (speaking to Sara Flounders co-director of the
        International Action Center) "You don't like this country,
        do you? You don't -- you think this is an evil country. By
        your description of it right here, you think it's a
        bad country." (9/25/01)
        \_ It's a straw man.  Hannity is a political commentator who gets
           paid millions of dollars to be controversial.  Hannity does not
           read the motd.  At best you had 1 random idiot almost 3 years
           ago saying anything like that.  Get over yourself.
        \_ Wow, I never realized how fair and unbiased Fox News was.
        \_ Why do you hate America?
           \_ You know the difference between news and opinion, right?
              Hannity has a talk show, not a news show.  Grow up.
        \_ I liked Orson Scott Card's assessment of Hannity as "relentlessly
           dim".  He and Rush are a burden we conservatives bear.  I wish they
           would both just go away. -emarkp
           \_ as opposed to the brilliant insights of Orson Scott Card. -tom
           \_ But if one conservative says something, that means all
              conservatives believe it, right?
              \_ How often do you hear conservatives vocally reject what
                 Hannity does?  If you don't want his bullshit to reflect
                 on you, you have to say so.  And I'm not talking about
                 random people on the motd.  I'm talking congressmen...
                 \_ I wouldn't expect a high-placed politician to bother
                    responding to a nutty media figure, regardless of their
                    political affiliation.  What I might expect is some rebuke
                    from a more sane conservative media figure, such as
                    Bill O'Reilly. (Did I just use 'Bill O'Reilly' and 'sane'
                    in the same sentence?)
                    \_ BOR isn't a Republican.  Why would a Republican like
                       Hannity care?  Why would a non-Republican feel the need
                       to 'correct' Hannity?
                    \_ Rush Limbaugh got a special award from the Republican
                       Congress in 1998. So not only do they not refute
                       him, they hold him up as an example.
                       \_ I wonder how many of you Rush haters have ever
                          actually listened to him for more than 5 minutes
                 \_ How often do you hear liberals vocally reject what
                  [Micheal Moore/NY Times Editorial page/Al Franken/other
                  left-wing Media idiot does]?  If you don't want his
                  bullshit to reflect on you, you have to say so.  And I'm
                  not talking about random people on the motd.  I'm
                  talking congressmen...
                  \_ Al Franken is more of a comedian who likes to satire
                     wacko Republicans like Bill O'Reilly. I wouldn't
                     really say he's a propagandist. People like Rush
                     and Ann Coulter, on the other hand, ARE serious and
                     their audiences do take them seriously
                     \_ Al Franken is a comedian like Rush is a comedian.
                        They are both entertainment figures.  You can't
                        dismiss and disavow your looney while pegging the
                        other guy's with theirs.
                  \_ Most of the time when a "left-wing Media idiot" says
                     something that's controversial, it's Unsavory, uncouth or
                     in poor taste, but not factually wrong or an ad-hominem
                     attack.  Moore's "Bush is a liar" stuff may not win the
                     left any points, but it is true.
                     \_ Uhm, but it isn't.  Whatever.
                     \_ Uhm, but it isn't true.  Whatever.
                  \_ I like your equation of a humorist, a propagandist, and
                     the editorial page of the NYTimes.  None of them are
                     really related at all except in your little mind.
                     \_ It's not bigger a strech than equating Hannity,
                        Rush, and Coulter with all other conservatives.
                        You realize Rush considers himself an
                        entertainer/humorist?  Hamnity probaly considers
                        himself an editorializer... etc.  Since the point
                        was to emphasize the sillyness of your accusations by
                        applying them to the left as you apply them to the
                        right, I would say my post succeeded beautifully.
                        \_ Uhm, okay. I guess you have a different definition
                           of "entertainment" and "humor" but in my book
                           Rush ain't either one.
                           \_ Ummm... did I say anything about what I
                              consider humor or entertainment?  No.
                              Re-read post.  "Rush considers himself an
                              entertainer/humorist[.]"  Now explain to me
                              where it says in there what _I_ think of
                              \_ Well, if you took it in context instead
                                 of picking out individual senetences, you
                                 were commenting about how unfair it was
                                 to lump people like Rush, BOR, and Ann
                                 as a single group. What purpose did your
                                 sentence (the one commenting about how
                                 Rush sees himself as a humorist) serve other
                                 than to prove that he shouldn't be lumped
                                 in with other Republican lunatics like
                                 BOR and Ann Coulter?
                                 \_ The point being that they're all
                                    different types a lunatic, silly.  It
                                    may surprise you to know, I don't
                                    like ANY of those 3.  SURPRISE!  If
                                    you want context, why don't you read
                                    the whole discussion?
2004/6/23 [Finance/Banking, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:30970 Activity:nil
6/23    Does the post office generally sell CD mailers (something sturdy to
        ship a CD in) or do I need to stop at Office Depot on the way to
        the post office?
        \_ Depends on the PO. Better to stop at OD or Staples and get
           one since the PO generally overcharges for stuff like that.
2004/6/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30971 Activity:insanely high
6/23    How many members of the Bush Administration are needed
        to replace a light bulb?
        The Answer is SEVEN:
        1. One to deny that a light bulb needs to be replaced,
        2. One to attack and question the patriotism of anyone who has
           questions about the light bulb,
           \_ WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
        3. One to blame the Clinton administration for the need of a new
           light bulb,
        4. One to arrange the invasion of a country rumored to have a secret
           stockpile of light bulbs,
        5. One to get together with Vice President Cheney and well, no, no one
           would want to be in the same room with Vice President Cheney.
        6. One to arrange a photo-op session showing Hillary changing the light
           bulb while carrying a tray of cookies she baked herself.
        7. And finally, one to explain to Bush the difference between
           screwing a light bulb and screwing the country and screwing an
        8. And one more to explain that when your penis enters a woman's
           mouth, that is sex, no matter what the definition of 'is' is.
           \_ That's a waste of tax payers' money.  Bush still would not
              know the difference.
        \_ AWESOME!!
        \_ what are all these light bulb parts ending up in foreign country
        scrap yards?
           scrap yards like Kosovo and the Sudan and Afganistan?
          \_ they just removed the filaments and discarded the shells
2004/6/23 [Uncategorized/Profanity, Computer/SW/P2P] UID:30972 Activity:high
        \_ shit, stop sharing this stuff.  the more you advertise something
           the this the faster it becomes completely useless.
2004/6/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30973 Activity:very high
6/23    NYTimes reviews "Fahrenheit 9/11"  -dgies
        \_ "Mr. Moore is often impolite, rarely subtle and occasionally unwise.
           He can be obnoxious, tendentious and maddeningly self-contradictory.
           He can drive even his most ardent admirers crazy. He is a credit to
           the republic."
           See, I don't understand this.  To a partial observer like myself,
           this just looks like, for lack of a better term, cocksucking.
             -- ilyas
           \_ Yes, because all begrudging praise for people we don't like is
              cocksucking. Cheney? Likes to have "swordfights" in his mouth.
              Bush? Satisfies the rich and loves bukakke. See how fun this is?
              \_ Sure, I understand begrudging praise.  But I don't understand
                 how in this particular case, the praise follows from what was
                 previously said.  Being rarely subtle and obnoxious does not
                 make one a credit to anything, be it one's parents, one's
                 race, one's country... -- ilyas
                 \_ There are any number of comedians, actors and politicians
                    to whom the same adjectives would apply, and they are just
                    as much a credit to this country as this author posits
                    for Michael Moore. -scotsman
                    \_ Like Al Franken and his popular radio show!
                    \_ Yes, but those characteristics don't make them a credit.
                       Those characteristics are negative.  Hence my problem.
                         -- ilyas
                       \_ It's not an if-then.  It's "He all these things that
                          people tar him with, and thank god he's there." Those
                          characteristics aren't necessarily negative. -scotsman
                       \_ All those characteristics make him a credit to his
                          country if his country also exemplifies those
        \_ perms
           \_ fixed, sorry.
        \_ It's funny that f911 is rated R and The Green Berets is rated G.
           \_ why is this even an issue? are there kids who aren't 17 now
              who will somehow manage to vote later this year?
           \_ Have you *seen* the Green Berets?
              \_ Did you see Burning Columbine?  footage of executions, etc.
                 \_ Do you mean "Bowling for Columbine"?
           \_ Seeing corpses of actual people is probably more disturbing
              than phony violence.  Nothing wrong with that but it's not
              \_ I see dead people... on the news. I think. It's all kind of
                 a haze mixed with the web media. A corpse is a corpse, of
                 course, of course, and kids can look at a corpse of course,
                 that is, of course, unless the corpse is in Fahrenheit 911.
                 Thousands of folks with their kids went to look at Reagan's
                 corpse, boxed though it was. There are hanging Jesus corpses
                 in all the churches. Bah.
                 \_ This must be a troll.  I can't believe you can't tell the
                    difference between showing a 15 year old cartoon violence
                    and showing a 15 year old the bullet riddled dehumanised
                    corpse of some poor dumb dead bastard lying in the street.
                    Or between a dead guy in a box and the same corpse in the
                    street.  Or between a symbolic carving or Jesus on a stick
                    and a dirty bloodied corpse in the street.  Go away, troll.
                    \_ You think 15 year olds aren't on the web? I remember
                       being 15. It depends on how it's presented, but don't
                       doubt those FPS-playing, pot smoking sex-having kids
                       are exposed to much worse if they so choose. They
                       saw jets flying into the WTC.
                 \_ Hi Lea.  Sign your name.
                    \_ I always sign my name iff it's mine. This isn't.
                 \_ Are you trying to make it rhyme?
              \_ What's more amusing is that Moore appealed the rating because
                 an R-rating might decrease the audience.  Sorry Moore, the
                 rating system is on the content, no the /in/tent.
        \_ Why do you hate America?
2004/6/23-24 [Transportation/Bicycle] UID:30975 Activity:very high
6/23    Now that you've tricked your civic, why not trick your bike:
        \_ hmmm. I might just have to get some of that shit for my unicycle.
           now *that* will be cool.
           \_ I don't think it would work on a unicycle; the pipe would
              get in the way of the cranks/your legs.  -tom
              \_ well, if you mounted it along the bar, then yeah, it'll
                 be pointing straight down and hence in the way, but
                 if you built a little mounting bracket right under the seat
                 so it went horizontally, right out from the back of the
                 seat, you'd be ok.  of course, for what these hosers are
                 charging i'll probably just build it myself...with a
                 flame jet!
              \_ sure it'll work, but you'd have to mount it differently.
                 just make a bracket right under the seat that mounts it
                 horizontally going out from under the back of the seat.
                 i think having  shoot flames would also be a good idea.
                 it would look like a fart.
              \_ but you can attach a big spoiler under the seat post.
        \_ Why do you hate linux?
           \_ huh?
2004/6/23-24 [Uncategorized] UID:30976 Activity:moderate
6/23    Breakdancing Transformers:
        \_ Excellent!  I bet they do an amazing Robot.
        \_ Why do you hate dancing robots?
2004/6/23-24 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30977 Activity:very high
6/23    pf now in netbsd current:
        \_ It was a bit ugly to get working in fbsd.  How hard was it to
           get installed and running on netbsd?
           \_ How ugly?  Compiled right out of ports on my 5.2 box.  Works
              a charm.  -John
              \_ You need to build a custom kernel.
                 \_ You do? Seemed to work in 5.2.1 by just typing make
                    install in /usr/ports.
        \_ Why do you hate hackers?
                    \_ Didn't on mine.  The GENERIC kernel options weren't
                       quite right.
           \_ Wow you are really cool.  Will you impregnate my sister.
2004/6/23 [Politics/Domestic] UID:30978 Activity:nil
6/23    [ Deleted. Loser Republicans keep modifying other people's posts ]
        \_ MOTD Republicans tend to be very childish, and lack sense of
2004/6/23-24 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:30979 Activity:high
        The boy's mutant DNA segment was found to block production of a
        protein called myostatin that limits muscle growth. The news comes
        seven years after researchers at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore
        created buff "mighty mice" by "turning off" the gene that directs
        cells to produce myostatin. "Now we can say that myostatin acts the
        same way in humans as in animals," said the boy's physician, Dr.
        Markus Schuelke, a professor in the child neurology department at
        Charite/University Medical Center Berlin. "We can apply that knowledge
        \_ Why do you hate DNA?
        \_ Thinking like this will destabalize the human genome for generations
           to come.
        \_ Why do you hate children?
           \_ Because when you have them your freedom goes away.
2004/6/23-24 [Recreation/Dating] UID:30980 Activity:very high
6/23    Dear gmail users, did getting a gmail account help you get laid?
        \_ I've had mine for about 4 hours.  No luck so far.
        \_ Yes, I started getting a chance to offer people new accounts,
           which I have successfully bartered for sex.
        \_ gmail took 1/2 hour to deliver the mail to the chick who was
           supposed to have sex with me and by then it was too late.
           Is this normal?  (the half hour mail delivery, not the inablity
           to wait).
        \_ i finally scored with my left hand
           \_ You scored in your own end zone, dewd
        \_ Someone invite me so I can get laid too...
        \_ Why do you hate women?
        \_ I will sleep with you if you offer me a gmail account.
           \_ I really hope that's georgy.  Probably not, but I can hope.
         \_ what's your login? -aspo
        \_ If i've been getting laid before, does it count if I'm still getting
           laid after?
2004/6/23 [Recreation/Media] UID:30981 Activity:nil
6/23    some links for ax:
        \_ jesus christ
                \_ THANKS!!  -ax
2004/6/23-24 [Uncategorized] UID:30982 Activity:insanely high
6/23    If SBC provides fiber-to-the-node (FTTN) service, and the node is split
           \_ Verizon calls this FTTP (fiber to the premise).
        to 500 residences, what is the bandwidth to the node, and max
        bandwidth from a node to the customer premise?
        \_ it all depends on how many strands of fiber and what
           they run over that fiber. too many variables to speculate
        \_ The City of Burbank uses fiber extensively bc of all their studios
           and stuff. They have hundreds of strands going all over. They could
           easily provide 100mbps or even gig to homes. The limitation would
           probably the cost of the upstream bandwidth. Isn't that also the
           case with DSL?
        \_ Why do you hate high bandwidth?
           \_ because nerds love it.
2004/6/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:30983 Activity:high
6/23 (
        Holy shit!  How do *I* get into the parties they're attending?!
        \_ I have invites...who wants them.
        \_ marry Jeri Ryan
                 \_ Is this the same one who played Seven Of Nine?
                    That dude is strange if he's married to Seven
                    Of Nine and wants to go the xxx clubs.
                    \_ this story wouldn't get nearly the attention that
                       it has if it weren't the same Jeri Ryan
        \_ He's a Republican who went to sex clubs.  Is this some bizarre
           conservative cross-pollination from Britain?  What's next, Jesse
           Helmes found dead of autoerotic asphyxiation?
        \_ He's a tried and true RINO.
        \_ His name is Jack Ryan and he's running for office?  That's too
           \_ Tom Clancy fans might get confused and vote for him. Maybe
              that is his angle.
        \_ Why do you hate sex?
2004/6/23-24 [Uncategorized] UID:30985 Activity:moderate
6/23    some lins fra:
                \_ THANKS!!  -ax
        \_ Why do you hate motd threads with meaningful link descriptions?
2019/08/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:23 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>