Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:17 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2004/6/17 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30854 Activity:high
6/17    [continued LGPL thread]
        \_ Option 2 doesn't work, because you can't make an LGPL wrapper to
           a GPL'd library.  The wrapper itself must be licensed under the
           GPL too.
             \_ This is not correct. You can create lgpl wrappers for
                gpl libraries. If you read the lgpl it allows you to
                dual license your code (gpl does not) so you can have
                the wrapper avail under gpl and lgpl which solves this
                problem.
                \_ The GPL does not prevent you from dual-licensing your
                   *own* code.  Dual-licensing doesn't apply here anyway.
                   Your wrapper--by linking to the GPL'd library--is a
                   derivative work.  As a derivative work, the authors of
                   the GPL'd library have partial ownership of it.  You
                   can't dual-license your wrapper without their
                   permission.  Hence, your wrapper must be *solely* GPL'd
                   if distributed, and now you're back at square one.
                   \_ Okay, I think I understand now. Please see below
                      (... wasted a bunch of time ...)
        \_ Like I said on the original thread.  The whole GPL thing is a big
           fucking mess.  No one truly knows what is and is not a violation and
           can't and won't until a court settles it.  In the meantime do what
           you think is the right thing and don't sweat it.  IMO, distributing
           the gpl code & license with your project is perfectly ok.
        \_ Okay, I wasted a bunch of time reading about this. There seem to
           be two conflicting pov. The FSF pov is that if you use a gpl lib
           that doesn't contain the following exception:
           http://tinyurl.com/34y7o (gnu.org)
           then the resulting program must be gpl'ed.
           There is another pov which is that if your program dynamically
           links with the library then you can release your program under
           bsd w/o problems. The closest analogy I could find was that
           dynamic linking is like references in a book: w/o the source of
           the ref. you cannot understand the reference but the person
           making the ref. is not creating a "derivative work" simply by
           saying look in book a on pg x for a complete discussion.
           I have come to the conclusion that the GPL is stupid and that
           the only reasonable open src stuff is licensed under BSD or
           X/MIT.
2004/6/17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:30855 Activity:very high
6/16    Arch liberal 9th Circuit topples Mojave desert cross (WWI veterans
        memorial) Why don't we redo the crosses at Normandy and Arlington while
        we are at it.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1155068/posts
        \_ We just swap out one God for another.
        \_ for the record, I'm an athiest jew and a liberal, and i think this is
           totally retarded.
        \_ for the record, I'm an atheist jew and a liberal, and i think this
           is totally retarded.  [80 columnd, spellingd]
           \_ I'm a liberal atheist and I think it's wrong for the government
              to put up or maintain a religiously-themed monument, but I don't
              see the constitutional imperitive to remove one.
              \_ so are you anti-cristmass trees on the town green also?
                 -laj
                 \_ Christmas trees are pagan/secular.  I'm anti-nativity
                    scenes.
                    \_ what about menorahs?
                       \_ No.  No general secular usage.  Maybe in another
                          generation they will be sufficiently stripped of
                          religious meaning.
                          \_ I hope not.  Keep your christmas time sales crap
                             to ruining your own culture.
        \_ Arlington doesn't have crosses.  Oh.  there is the Argonne cross.
        \_ Thanks for the chuckle. I love to watch the Freepers drool over
           themselves in anger.
           \_ It's better than watching them drool over themselves idly.
2004/6/17 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:30856 Activity:very high
6/17    Is spamassassin broken?? I'm getting tons of German messages in my
        mailbox
        (yes, I have the proper .procmailrc set up). This is recent as of
        this week.
        \_ No, Spamassassin just sucks.  But seriously, the german spam has
           taken a lot of antispam people by surprise.  Run them through SA's
           Bayes filter.  A few should do it.
           \_ SA caught the German spam for me.  SA has worked great for me for
              years.  I don't understand what the rest of you are doing to
              make SA not work.
        \_ Geben Sie ihr grosseres etwas!
2004/6/17 [Reference/Law/Visa] UID:30857 Activity:moderate
6/17    Oops!  Good thing it was only the 575 F1 instead of the Enzo:
        http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004272369,00.html
2004/6/17 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30858 Activity:high
6/17    Bush disputes the Arch liberal 9/11 commission findings:
        http://csua.org/u/7st
        \_ Presidents like this will destabilize the Middle East for years to
           come.
           \_ WDYHA?
           \_ Generations, damn it!  And that's American credibility.  Get
              the Big Lie right before you start telling it.
2004/6/17 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:30859 Activity:insanely high
6/17    There's a car rental place near my house that has a sign:
                TULOY
                PO
                KAYO
        (spelling might be wrong, just going off of memory).  What does
        this mean, and in what language?
        \_ Formal Tagalog for "Please come in." -elizp
          \_ why are Flip girls so hot? I met one in dance class and she
             had the most perfect butt and the cutest face.
2004/6/17 [Reference/Military] UID:30860 Activity:very high
6/17    Attn: Geordan.  Your laser gun is almost ready.
        http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996014
        \_ You know what scares the hell out of me?  Hand-gun sized stunners
           in the hands of serial killers, rapists, and the generally violent.
        \_ You know what scares the hell out of me?  Hand-gun sized hand guns,
           knives, clubs, 2x4s with nails in them, and other sharp or blunt
           heavy objects in the hands of serial killers, rapists, and the
           generally violent.
        \_ You know what scares the hell out of me?  Serial killers, rapists,
           and the generally violent.  Outlaw violence!
           \_ When violence is outlawed, only outlaws will be violent.
           \_ We have nothing to fear but fear itself.  And the generally
              violent.
2004/6/17 [Reference/BayArea, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:30861 Activity:high
6/17    Good grief. Anita Mui has been dead how long and I find out through a
        side reference in a Salon article. Was there any mention in the Bay
        Area (English language) papers? -- ulysses
        \_ Who is (was) she?  Enlighten us please.
           \_ http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0611315  For the casual Western
              fan, she was the store manager in Rumble in the Bronx, but
              that's a lot like saying Charleton Heston's this guy who did
              a bit part in that Wayne's World II movie.
        \_ Not that I heard.  If you are interested in the HK entertainment
           circle and can't read Chinese, visit http://www.hkentreview.com  If you
           are a regular,  please leave a donation as the Canadian who runs
           the site is basically doing free translation for the rest of us.
           --jeffwong.
2004/6/17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:30862 Activity:very high 50%like:30544
6/17   Who the hell is fucking up the motd?
        \_ Use TAB on the first line you idiot, or learn to indent. ;)
        \_ what's wrong with the motd?
           \_ It just happened again.  Motdwatch shows a whole bunch of lines
              removed and then replaced with slightly different indentation.
              The whole process also destroys any recent additions, including
              those made with motdedit.
              \_ It's reiffin.  He edits motd.public, then scp's his changed
                 file.  Overwrites a whole bunch of shit.
                 \_ I don't scp anything.  I'm merging multiple motds back
                    together after others have munged each other's posts with
                    other methods.  Yes, squish the guy who is restoring all
                    the posts that got destroyed by others and keeping the motd
                    in one piece.  Good idea.
                    in one piece.  Good idea.  I'll use sdiff in the future to
                    preserve your precious tabs.
                \_ how do you know it's him?
                 \_ What a hoser, eh?
                \_ SQUISH SQUISH SQUISH! We haven't had a squishfest since
                   the late 90s (it's FUN), let's start with reiffin.
2004/6/17 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:30863 Activity:insanely high
6/17    Dear John, I've decided to learn German. Why? The German population
        is the largest in Europe so maybe I can pick up more chicks. In
        addition, I get the added advantage of understanding the German
        spam and the History Channel. Now let me ask you this. What's the
        best way to learn German? I'd like to learn via audiotapes. Also,
        I'd like to listen to catchy German songs, like Das Ist Berlin,
        got recommendations? ok thx.
        \_ how would learning German be different from learning any other
           language?  the greater the exposure, preferebly in the country
           with total immersion, the faster the learning curve.
        \_ 99 Luftbaloons!
           \_ God you people are old.
              \_ Ich bin ein Berlinner!
              \_ You prefer the Britney Spears version?
           \_ The original version in English is better.
              \_ The original version is German. Nena later released a
                 version in English.
                 \_ You should hear it in the original Klingon
        \_ Warum fragen Sie John? Und auf dem motd, no less? That truly is
           anonymous cowardness. Anyway, unless you're some kind of language
           genius you won't really learn it unless you immerse yourself in it
           for a while. You can at least have fun getting to an intermediate
           level. It's pretty close to English really, the only thing is the
           genderized article/pronoun stuff.
           \_ And: THE VERB MUST BE SECOND
              \_ Dude, the verb must be last.  You haven't spoken german much.
                   -- ilyas
                 \_ Someone deleted my response, but you are showing your
                    ignorance here: "Warum fragen Sie John?". Where is the
                    verb (fragen)? The verb is almost always the second
                    construct in a German sentence.
                    \_ Mark Twain's take on german:
                       http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/awfgrmlg.html
                         -- ilyas
                    \_ er, both of these guys are referring to the, forgot
                       what it's called but: I must go to school" becomes
                       "i must to school go" in German.
                       \_ "Must" is an auxiliary *verb* and it is *second*.
                          \_ must is a noun too
                             \_ Not in this context.
        \_ http://www.nextup.com/attnv.html
           The AT&T natural voices are really quite good: virtually everything
           that I read these days is piped through a text-to-speech program.
           I can only attest to the quality of the English voices, but they
           have voices for Spanish, French, German, and various English Accents
2004/6/17 [Uncategorized] UID:30864 Activity:nil 66%like:33179
6/17    What happened to <DEAD>soar.berkeley.edu<DEAD> ?
        \_ Couldn't handle the load.  Taken over by http://recipesource.com
2004/6/17 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:30865 Activity:very high
6/17    Anyone here still want a gmail account who hasn't gotten one
        yet?
        \_ Fuck gmail, I want pre-IPO stock.
        \_ I'll wait until it goes public.  thanks.
        \_ yes
           \_ i have some spare invitations. post your email address
              if you want one
              \_ can I get one? -chiry
              \_ I want one too!  -ecchang
              \_ Me, too! -jose
                 \_ sorry, no mas... though I'll be happy to send you one
                    if I get more invites tomorrow (been getting ~4/day)
                    \_ Hey, add me to the list. -emarkp
              \_ I'd love to have one. -darin
           \_ So should I mail the invite to anonymous@csua ?
        \_ "Gmail is temporarily unavailable. Cross your fingers and
           try again in a few minutes. We're sorry for the inconvenience."
           \_ Mine works fine. --person with account
              \_ Really? I just tried again and got the same thing. --newacct
        \_ Now working. I get "You don't have any mail! Our servers
           are feeling unloved." I am beginning to like it already!
2004/6/17 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:30866 Activity:very high
6/17    What's up with William Hung? He sings like a retard, he looks
        like a retard, yet every now and then there's news coverage of
        him. Have we really sunk this low?
        \_ It's like the South Park where Timmy joins a rock band.
        \_ White folk like watching buck-toothed, effeminate,
           model-minority Asian men making comic asses of themselves.
           Hung's recording contract is a slap in the face of each
           and every genuinely talented Filipino American or Asian
           American pop music artist who can't get a contract b/c
           s/he isn't black, white, or JLo. -elizp
           \_ This reminds me of the time I was on campus right after Brandon
              Lee got killed in a set accident and these two Asian guys
              walking behind me were echoing each other, each assuring the
              other of the White Man's Conspiracy to demasculinise the Asian
              Male.  They were certain that both Bruce and his son were
              murdered by the White Man as part of this huge conspiracy to
              keep the Asian Man down and in 'his place'.  Get over it.  There
              are plenty of people of other races who are talented and unknown.
              There are plenty of whites, black, and hot brown women with
              great asses that can't get contracts.  It is as much about luck
              as anything else.
           \_ This is a nice theory. Check William Hung's fan pages, though
              and you will find the truth is not so simple. There are
              mostly white people but good representation from other ethnic
              categories as well. I, too, am curious why his fifteen minutes
              have run so long.
           \_ riiiight.  so jlo and the other fucking RIAA-sponsored
              pre fab corporate clowns like the Spice Girls are all about
              talent, huh?  the whole system is rotten.  why point to the
              lack of untalented corporate whore asians in particular when
              all the system turns out is crap anyway?
              \_ I agree -- big labels suck, and indie labels start sucking
                 once they discover they have to act like big-time
                 labels/distributors to break even. -elizp
                 \_ fine. so we agree. then what's the point of complaigning
                    about the evil labels' attitude towards Asian talent,
                    when they show complete contempt for the very concept
                    of talent?  it's like complaigning that your local mob
                    boss isn't an equal opportunity employer.
           \_ You're my hero. Pinoy pride! --jsjacob
           \_ Yeah, it is so mean of those recording companies only giving
              recording contracts to the people who are most likely to have
              a large record buying audience.  Pinoy power!
           \_ He's a buffoon.  Americans like watching buffoons, especially
              the ones who think they're really stars.  It's a character
              defect, yes, but this is not a symptom of anti-Asian sentiment.
              The absolute lack of any major Asian-American pop stars is
              the symptom you're looking for, and yes, it's a crime.
              \_ There are some like James Iha. The industry doesn't care
                 what color you are if: 1) You are talented or 2) You can
                 sell records. Yes, the former will still get you a record
                 deal, although not on a pop label with pop exposure.
           \_ Good response. Haven't thought about it that way, thank you.
           \_ Hey, look, is it white people's fault that there are no hip
              Asian dudes?
              Asian dudes?  The most we can come up with is some nerds-gone-bad
              story (Better Luck Tomorrow), and that just does not qualify.
              \_ Dumbshit, didn't you go to Berkeley?  *EVERYTHING* is white
                 people's fault.
2004/6/17 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:30867 Activity:high
6/17    So when will CSUA give us 1 or 2 GB of storage??!! ;)
        \_ Don't be stupid.
           \_ sarcasm-detector disabled?
              \_ modprobe: Can't locate module sarcasm-detector
        \_ more to the point, when is someone going to write gmailFS?
           \_ Agreed.  This could be the next great p2p system.
        \_ When the CSUA gets a 4TB disk array.
        \_ http://gmail-is-too-creepy.com
2004/6/17 [Uncategorized] UID:30868 Activity:very high
6/17    I'm really really sick and tired of going through http://craigslist.org
        having to read 1/2 of the entries that say "female only". Shit.
        \_ Just tell them, I can be a female.
        \_ Looking for a lover or apt or job?
          \_ apartment. It's irritating to read a lot of crap then at the
             end you see "female only"
             \_ you're in CSUA and don't know about reversing a string?
                \_ "lyno elamef" ?
2004/6/17 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:30869 Activity:very high
6/17    For general purpose computing do you think a dual p3-700 with 100mhz
        bus is faster than a single p3-700 with 133 mhz bus?  When would the
        single cpu be faster?
        \_ For most applications, the bus speed will not matter. So you
           are looking at 1 CPU versus 2 CPUs. You may not receive any
           benefit to 2 CPUs, but they will not hurt. So the dual is
           almost always going to be faster. The exception is if you are
           limited by the bus speed (lots of I/O) and even then 133 is not
           much faster than 100.
        \_ Bus speed helps for applications that access memory in large
           "stride".  Having an extra CPU and not using it at all will actually
           slow the system down by 1-2% due to extra polling.
           \_ No, because the CPU will be used by the OS. Real benchmarks
              I have run show about a 10% gain on 2 CPUs even if there is just
              one non-threaded process running. The other CPU will never
              be 100% idle.
              \_ Sorry, I was refering to OSes which are not dual-cpu aware.
                 \_ From op: I'll be using windows XP.  Thanks.
2004/6/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30870 Activity:insanely high
6/17    I like that.  SUV bomb kills at least 35 and wounds over 138 Iraqis
        waiting to sign up for the Iraqi army, and it's covered by LA Times,
        NY Times, and Washington Post prominently, but buried on http://cnn.com.
        \_ It's on the front page.
           \_ Before you post, why don't you go to at least one of the other
              web sites, and contrast it with the presentation on http://cnn.com.
              I said "buried on http://cnn.com", and that's exactly what I meant.
              \_ It's on the front page in 2 places, with one of those links
                 in the top 3 stories.  Your definition of 'buried' is fucked.
        \_ You like that there are a lot of dead people, or you like that an
           SUV helped kill people?
           \_ Bombs don't kill people.  SUVs kill people!
           \_ troll.  If you were Rush, people would still listen to you.
              \_ You're being obtuse.  The PP was probably pointing out that
                 the OP's conscious choice of words completely obscures the
                 original point.  That doesn't seem trollish at all.
                 \_ Let's put it this way:  Were you "confused" by the time
                    you finished reading the second sentence?  If you were,
                    then I won't argue with you anymore.  Yes, I'm talking
                    to you, obtuse-boy.
                    \_ *sigh*  You're still being obtuse, but I guess that's
                       your prerogative.  Carry on.
        \_ I still don't see the point. Are you saying http://cnn.com is conservative
           or white-washing? Unless you're talking about FoxNews, such a
           conclusion is non-obvious and should be stated explicitly. Thanks.
           \_ If you don't know what's wrong, I'm certainly not going to
              tell you!
2004/6/17 [Science/Physics] UID:30871 Activity:nil
6/17    Atoms teleported:
        http://biz.yahoo.com/ft/040616/1087373056034_1.html
2004/6/17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:30872 Activity:nil
6/17    For those of you who felt that there was too much Reagan
        worshipping going on:
        http://www.jacksonhamiter.com/reagan
        \_ Server not found.
           \_ sorry, fixed
2004/6/17 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:30873 Activity:high
6/17    What do Taiwanese people have against Jackie Chan?
        \_ he's a male chauvinist pig
           \_ thanks for the fact filled url on that topic!
              \_ if you were a h07 42n ch1c u would already know!
        \_ because earlier he made a comment in Shanghai, saying that Taiwan's
           election in 2004 is "stupid."  Taiwan government felt insulted,
           refused to issue license for this charity performance.
           \_ I have a Taiwanese friend who's hated him for more than a year.
              Is this 2004 election the only reason?
              \_ He married a famous Taiwanese actress, and she stopped
                 making movies.  Some people were annoyed about that.
        \_ I hate him because his movies promote Asian stereotypes, that
           they're short and ugly and that their accent & moves are hilarious
           hence should not be taken seriously          -serious asian
           \_ Anyone who actually believes this is an idiot.  For
              examples, see the "Hardboiled" newspaper around Berkeley.
                                 \_ white on the outside, yellow on the inside?
           \_ you care too much about what white people think, and thus
              allowed them to define you.  you will never jump out of it
              that way.  you will always be a wannabe.
              \_ no one is 'defining' him or anyone else.  no one thinks
                 Jackie Chan = Standard Asian Male.  he's a comedy actor who
                 does physical comedy and stunts.  nothing more.
                 \_ so what's your problem?
                 \_ I think it's worth pointing out that Jackie Chan
                    thinks of himself as a modern day Buster Keaton.  He's
                    studied Keaton's work, and apparently is a big fan.
        \_ urlP?
           \_ #t
2004/6/17-18 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:30874 Activity:high
6/17    Gmail has some pretty funky stuff going on. It appears to have
        automatic duplication removal, and aggressive loop detection.
        I sent a mail to my other account from gmail, which should
        forward back to gmail, I never got the email. I sent a mail to
        two of my email address that forwards to gmail, I only got one
        copy. Interesting....
        \_ Or maybe gmail is just broken?  It's beta, eh?
        \_ They might be filtering on SPF.  Without an aware remailer, the
           forwards might get dropped. --scotsman
           \_ What's SPF? The forward works fine. It's only mail that I sent
              from gmail to my forwarded email address gets dropped.
           \_ "v=spf1 a:mproxy.gmail.com a:rproxy.gmail.com -all"
              They're publishing SPF; chances are they're filtering on it too.
              --dbushong
2004/6/17-18 [Finance/CC, Finance/Investment] UID:30875 Activity:very high
6/17    What's the catch with balance transfer offers? I got one that sounds
        really good, 1.99% for the life of the balance with no transfer fee.
        Is there any reason not to do this?
        \_ Ok, no, all this stuff below is wrong.  I checked and the way most
           of these work is they require you to a) take out more money that
           card every month (some minimum which will vary), and b) any money
           you pay off goes towards the lower interest rate money first, the
           higher rate you're paying on money from (a) is going to be at
           22% or something like that.  So, over time you are quickly moving
           your money from 1.9% to 22% and paying on a larger 22% base every
           month until eventually you have nothing at the lower rate and
           everything at the 22% rate.  READ and UNDERSTAND the contract
           before you do anything.  I've yet to see one where you can win.  If
           you want to do the math, you can get ahead for a short period of
           time and then pay off the whole thing when the scales tip against
           you but you'll have to get the math right and be really anal about
           dealing with this account.
           \_ Look, you are just wrong. I am doing this right now with
              my AmEx Blue Card and have been doing it for almost a year.
              I am pretty sure that the only "good" offers are made to
              current customers with good credit ratings, though. -bb
              \_ Ok, so what are the terms of your deal?  They don't require
                 a minimum transaction per time period and they let you pay
                 off the higher rate first?
                 \_ I just have to pay off the "minimum balance" every
                    month. I guess that is not defined, so they could
                    bump that up if they get sick of me having cheap
                    money. There is no requirement to use the card,
                    so I don't.
        \_ They're usually coupled with a clause where the low rate goes
           away if you ever miss or are late with a payment.  And of course
           they still get to ream you on fees if you ever are late too.
           \_ Yes. However, if you are never late then this is not an
              issue. Go ahead and do it. Your current agreement has the
              same clauses, anyway.
        \_ Also, if you make any new charges, I imagine payments will be
           credited toward the transferred balance first; so you get nailed
           for the full 10-22% APR on new charges until you pay off the
           transfer.
        \_ No catch, really. I am doing this on a $10k balance. I actually
           got six months interest free to start out. Just make sure you
           don't miss any payments or use the card for anything else.

[ non-compliant motd entry deleted ]
|_ why do you hate america?
\_ Why do you hate tabs?
        \_ They are depending on the laziness and stupidity of the masses.
           If you're smart and anal about it, you won't get screwed.  READ and
           UNDERSTAND the fine print.
           \_ if people were smart, they wouldn't have credit card debt in the
              first place.
              \_ this is not a failure of intelligence. --psb
                 \_ right. if you're smart (and have luck in the market)
                    you can make money using cash advances from credit cards.
                    the above low rate balance xfers make this possible.
                              \_ what i meant by "this is not a failure of
                                 intelligence" is not that you should use
                                 the money smartly but that everyone knows
                                 paying cc interest rates is insane ... but
                                 some people are undisciplined. it's like
                                 saying "smoking is dumb". --psb
                    \_ I knew a guy who did that during the boom.  He got
                       completely wiped out.  I guess he wasn't smart enough.
                       I know another guy from many years earlier when every
                       knucklehead was investing in gold and silver.  He
                       bought silver at around $28 or so.  It has never been
                       that high since.  He didn't do it on his credit cards.
                       I met another guy last year who came in to do vendor
                       tech support.  He was once at a company that went public
                       and his options were worth about $5m.  Someone at the
                       company told him he wasn't allowed to sell them unless
                       the company wanted them.  He didn't check with anyone
                       else outside the company and lost his entire $5m of
                       options (which is why he was doing onsite tech support).
                       I've never done any of those things but there sure are a
                       lot of stupid people out there....
                       \_Yes, Virginia, there really are stupid people...
                       \_ Borrow $10k at guaranteed lifetime 1.9%. Invest
                          in 10 yr (or 5 yr) government bonds paying 4.7%.
                          Make $280/yr on the arbitrage. Why is this stupid? -bb
                          \_ That won't work.  The bonds don't pay out on a
                             monthly basis, and your CC company will want
                             monthly payments.
                             \_ Sure it works, you think of it as buying a
                                $10k 10 yr bond with $100/mo payments. But
                                the interest from the bond makes a couple
                                of payments a year for you. You have to have
                                the spare cash lying around to be able to make
                                the montly payment until the interest from
                                the bond pays, admittedly. -bondboy
                             \_ Put $10,000 into bonds of $100.  Every 6 months
                                cash out 1 bond and use that money to pay the
                                interest for the next 6 months.  Bonds only
                                accrue interest every 6 months which is why
                                you want a bond-size that covers 6 months of
                                your interest.
                                \_ Wow, you are even crazier than me! Did
                                   you actually buy 100 bonds, or is this
                                   just theoretical? -bondboy
                                   \_ Theoretical, but what's wrong with 100
                                      bonds?
                                      \_ Transaction costs and just the
                                         sheer hassle of buying and keeping
                                         track of 100 bonds. If there was
                                         enough money involved, it would
                                         be worth it, but not for $100 bonds,
                                         imnsho. -bondboy
                                         \_ Bonds are all written down at the
                                            same time and placed in a
                                            safe-deposit box.  Every 6 months
                                            you go to your bank to get and cash
                                            out a bond.  Every month you write
                                            a check to the CC company.
                                            \- you know when you figure out
                                               how much you are making per
                                               hour of work, you have to
                                               take off the tax on the extra
                                               income. --psb
There are no taxes on gov't bonds. Well no, Fed _/
taxes, at least. I see the appeal of not having
to "float" the credit card payment, though. If
I get bored enough at work today, I will try
to work out the difference. I guess if you
buy the bonds directly from the Treasury,
this might work. It still ends up being
a lot of work. Just doing it all online,
buying the bonds via E*Trade, etc, is
pretty simple. -bb
\_ how can i learn to be a finance nerd like you guys?
      -moron with all assets in checking account
   \_ Is this a serious question? My g/f thinks I
      should go back and get a CPA, since I
      obviously enjoy this stuff more than my
      job as a sysadmin. -bb
      \_ yes, it's a serious question.
         \_ Read The Economist, Smartmoney and
            The WSJ. Smartmoney U (from their
            front door) is a great way to get
            started on learning things like
            what bond curves mean. -bb
            Start here:
            http://www.smartmoney.com/thebasics/?nav=DropTabs
\_ Bonds are the safe option, but there are better investments to make.
   Anyway, it is easy to carry a CC balance and a 1.x% is makes sense to
   do so. Buy a car with it instead of an auto loan. Do home repairs
   instead of an equity loan. You may wonder why anyone would carry
   a CC balance, but the reality is that most people will never be debt-free.
   The key is cash flow. I'd gladly put millions of $$$ on my CC if I had
   that kind of limit and start a business, buy real estate, or whatever.
   The "debt is bad" mantra is for foolish Midwestern housewives who read
   Motley Fool and who spend 12 hours clipping coupons to save $5. Take
   whatever the bank will give you, because most of us will not save that
   kind of money (hundreds of thousands of $$$) easily and it can lead to
   opportunity. Obviously using the CC money for vacations and stereo
   equipment is stupid, but having a balance in itself is not. I know lots
   of people who started businesses on their CC. Think bigger than *bonds*
   Jesus! Those Midwestern wives would be excited about $280/year, though.
   \_ Yeah, maybe someday I will be in a position to start my own business
      or do something like that. But in the meantime, I am having fun and
      making money, while learning how to make this stuff work. -bb
      \_ At least you realized that assets - liabilities is more important
         than being debt-free. I don't care if I have $10 billion in debt
         if I have $100 billion in assets. Debt-free is just as idiotic
         as debt-laden.
2004/6/17 [Uncategorized] UID:30876 Activity:high
6/17    Is there an efficient command line program that splits tiff files
        (possibly multipage ones) into half along the middle and/or rotate
        them by a multiple of Pi/2?  I am currently converting them to pnm and
        use pnm utilities but it is quite slow because of the conversion
        (but still faster than imagemagik).
2004/6/17-18 [Uncategorized] UID:30877 Activity:insanely high
6/17    I realy just don't know what to say about this.
        http://www.caedefensefund.org
        \_ This will finally bring an end to degenerate "modern" art.
           \_ We can only hope...
        \_ I don't get it.  As far as I can tell the people who wrote this
           page have no idea what the case is about.  It might not have
           anything (directly) to do with the art.
           \_ So tell me, what is the case "about"? It seems obvious to
              me that the Justice Dept knows that this is no threat. Have
              they decided that art they don't like is terrorism now?
              \_ How would I know?  I just said that the people closest to
                 them don't know.  Why would I?
2004/6/17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:30878 Activity:very high
6/17    How do these people go over the mail quota??

-rw-rw----  1 caliban        mail   17031116 Jun 17 15:59 caliban
-rw-rw----  1 adam           mail   17063887 Jun 17 15:59 adam
-rw-rw----  1 muchandr       mail   17104892 Jul 15  2003 muchandr
-rw-------  1 phoy           mail   17235821 Jun 17 12:42 phoy
-rw-------  1 edmund         mail   17260314 Jun 17 15:38 edmund
-rw-rw----  1 katster        mail   17276627 Jun 17 15:51 katster
-rw-------  1 andylei        mail   17313471 Jun 17 08:56 andylei
-rw-------  1 jlanse         mail   17554493 Jun 17 14:33 jlanse
-rw-rw----  1 deschan        mail   17571738 Jun 16 22:07 deschan
-rw-rw----  1 alanc          mail   17586824 Jun 17 15:55 alanc
-rw-rw----  1 hankwong       mail   17637250 Jun 17 15:30 hankwong
-rw-------  1 mh             mail   17686229 Jun 17 15:52 mh
-rw-------  1 karthik        csua   17699197 Jun 16 23:58 karthik
-rw-------  1 hoangla        mail   17775223 Jun 13 20:34 hoangla
-rw-rw----  1 blyon          mail   17784451 Jun 17 15:15 blyon
-rw-------  1 davecw         mail   17915799 Jun 17 13:44 davecw
-rw-rw----  1 pad            mail   18120443 Jun 17 15:44 pad
-rw-------  1 dizzy          mail   18153447 Jun 17 15:57 dizzy
-rw-------  1 adr            mail   18169838 Jun 17 15:59 adr
-rw-------  1 conrad         mail   18259689 Jun 17 15:17 conrad
-rw-rw----  1 marc           mail   18391040 Jun 16 19:53 marc
-rw-------  1 bob            mail   18620381 Jun 17 14:49 bob
-rw-rw----  1 shieh          mail   18759669 Jun 17 15:40 shieh
-rw-------  1 mel            mail   19134446 Jun 17 15:58 mel
-rw-r--r--  1 nivra          csua   19247689 Mar 12 12:29 nivra
-rw-------  1 philb          mail   20225961 Jun 17 15:07 philb
-rw-------  1 milesm         mail   20487765 Jun 17 15:42 milesm
-rw-------  1 uctt           mail   20929716 Jun 17 15:46 uctt
-rw-rw----  1 niliu          mail   20938180 Jun 17 15:59 niliu
-rw-------  1 vlin           mail   20938590 Jun 17 11:28 vlin
-rw-rw----  1 njh            mail   27690498 Jun 17 15:54 njh
-rw-rw----  1 georgy         mail   29240141 Jun 17 15:29 georgy
-rw-rw----  1 ajaffe         mail   33219104 Jun 17 15:59 ajaffe
\_ Hard quota is 20M
   A few of them have higher quotas for various reasons.  Ask root.
\_ Pact with Satan.
   \_ finger: satan: no such user
      \_ The greatest trick Satan ever accomplished was making people think
         he doesn't exist.
\_ More importantly, why does nivra insist on making his mail spool
   world readable?
   \_ Cry for help.
        \_ http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~nivra/Day_life.html
           \_ That was... odd.  Maybe even NSFW. Although it's just text.
           \_ Someone send that to his wife.
      \_ Someone should probably tell him in case he didn't see this on motd.
        \_ It's mostly spam.
   \_ I'm tempted to make my mail world readable to see if motd'ers have enough
      free time to read my boring mail for fun.
2004/6/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30879 Activity:high
6/17    Dubya:  "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship
        between Iraq and Saddam and Al Qaeda, because there was a relationship
        between Iraq and Al Qaeda"
        Bubba:  "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky"
        \_ WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
        \_ I did not take millions in campaign contributions from PRC in
           exchange for missile and nuclear weapons technology. WJC
           \_ Nonono, we're looking for REAL quotes, especially ones with
              "relations" involved.
2004/6/17 [Computer/Theory, Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/GradSchool] UID:30880 Activity:nil
6/17    http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~nivra/Day_life.html
        Good stuff, read it before he deletes it!
2004/6/17 [Uncategorized] UID:30881 Activity:nil
6/17    Poll
        have at least one child:
        plan to have at least one child:
        plan on not having children:
        I'd also like to know how many you have or are planning to have, and at
        what age you started or are planning to start.
2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/22    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:17 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>