Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:11 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2004/6/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30740 Activity:nil
6/11    Fascist Putin takes side of Fascist Bush against Democrats on Iraq (
2004/6/11 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:30741 Activity:very high
6/11    What's your favorite live linux cd tool for console and network use?
        Does it have netcat, dd, and cmp? Slackware used to have a live cd
        Anybody know which one it is these days? (Has it been renamed SLAX)
        \_ KNOPPIX is your best solution.  you can even install debian
           onto your hard drive with it. - danh
2004/6/11 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:30742 Activity:nil
6/11    A moment of silence, please.
        \_ why is the death of a stupid dot-bomb interesting?
2004/6/11 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:30743 Activity:high
6/11    What's the easiest way to inspect the last few bytes of a HDD?
        I want to see the data with something like hexdump.
        \_ dd?
           \_ The HDD is 10GB and I've got a 256MB RAMDISK to write to.
              I want to read just the last part of the disk. fdisk -l
              says the disk has 10248118272 bytes. Am I doing something
              wrong?      dd if=/dev/hda of=./endfile skip=10248118000
              \_ The argument 'skip' counts in blocks.  You're skipping several
                 \_ I'll try:  dd if=/dev/hda of=./endfile skip=200158550
                 \_ I'll try:  dd if=/dev/hda of=./endfile skip=20015850
                    Aah, that was a lot faster! THanks.
2004/6/11 [Uncategorized] UID:30744 Activity:high
6/11    This entry is not interesting.
        \_ Ceci n'est pas un motd.
2004/6/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:30745 Activity:insanely high
6/11    poll, USA was safer before/after the fall of USSR:
        before: .
        \_ better question is if the USA was safer before the Muslim
           genocides in the 800s or after
           \_ There was the USA in the 800s?
        \_ why do you hate America?
              \_ Inhabited by pre-Americans.
        \_ This is just stupid.  Was the USA safer when we and the USSR were
           pointing 30,000 nukes in each direction and willing to kill every
           human being on the planet or are we safer now that they're gone,
           the Russians are in the G8 and we have cordial chats with them
           about world affairs?  New poll: is it better to live a long and
           happy life or a short painful miserable one?  Duh.
           \_ myth: world was unsafe because of USSR
              fact: none of the nukes were actually used
              \_ fact: both sides had itchy trigger fingers.  you're safer when
                 one side ceases to exist and there's no one looking for an
                 excuse to destroy the world.  im stunned we're even having
                 this discussion.
           \_ But after the fall of USSR, their nukes can now be easily stolen
              or purchased for the price of a BMW.  So now we don't even know
              who has them.
              \_ Yes, but in this case, if ONE is used against us, it isn't
                 clear who we can counter-strike against, and then suddenly
                 we'll "find" lots of funds to go find the rest.
              \_ Exactly. It's the perception of ominous threat vs. reality.
                 In reality, we are in far more danger now because the nukes
                 can and will fall into the wrong hands now that there is no
                 more than an anemic military watching the shop. I'm not saying
                 the fall of the USSR was a bad thing, but this is not one of
                 the reasons it was a good thing. The USSR did not want to use
                 their nukes any more than the USA did. This cannot be said of
                 some of the folks with access now. -- ulysses
                 \_ Maybe, maybe, maybe, some terrorists will get a nuke,
                    figure out how to use it, get it somewhere, and detonate
                    it killing an entire city's worth of people.  The other
                    way the USSR and US were prepared to kill *everyone*.
              \_ Oh really?  So there are thousands of ex-USSR nukes around
                 now?  Where does it say they're that easy to buy?
        \_ when USSR existed, 1/2 of the rogue country's frustrations and
           anger were directed at USSR. Now all are directed at USA.
                    \_ I understand your probabilities argument but if it goes
                       off in my city. I'll be too dead and glowing to carei
                       how many other cities went at the same time.
                    \_ another problem with his probabilities argument is that
                       the ussr was brutal when it came to responses to arab
                       terrorists.  there was a kidnapping of some russians in
                       the early 80s.  the kgb sent the kidnapper his brother's
                       ears and one of his balls in a gift wrapped box.  the
                       hostages were freed and no other russians were ever
                       taken again until after the fall.
                       \_ Except most of the terrorists (and mideast states)
                          were funded by the KGB.
                          \_ No, they were self funded on their own oil sales.
                             The other arab states then funded terrorists
                             around/in Israel.
                       \_ Wow!  KGB >>> CIA.  KGB rule!!!
                       \_ URL please?
                          \_ What are the odds I can find you a URL from the
                             early 80s?
                             \_ I didn't want an URL from the 80s.  I want an
                                URL about that event in the 80s.
                                \_ Good luck.  The entirety of human history is
                                   not on the web.  You have everything I
                                   remember about the situation.  Go google for
                                   it for a few hours and let us know.
2004/6/11 [Uncategorized] UID:30746 Activity:nil
6/11    betel nut girls are pretty
        \_ What's that?
              \_ Are they some kind of prostitutes?
        \_ how about the restaurant in SF of the same name? any hotties there?
2004/6/11 [Reference/BayArea, Reference/RealEstate] UID:30747 Activity:high
6/11    Is there still rent control in Berkeley and Oakland?  Thanks.
        \_ Yes and no.  There's rent control as long as the unit is being
           rented, but when the unit becomes vacant or the "original tennant"
           leaves, they can reset the rent however they like.
           \_ Yes in Berkeley and no in Oakland?
              \_ The above rules apply to both places.
                 \_ In Oakland there is an exemption from rent control
                    for 3 unit buildings or smaller that are owner
                    occupied. There are probably some other exemptions,
                    like for new construction, as well.
                    \_ Berkeley has some similar exemptions too.
        \_ Oakland Rent Board:
           Berkeley Rent Board:
2004/6/11-12 [Computer/SW/Apps/Media] UID:30748 Activity:very high
6/11    The Olympic torch was be relayed through various US cities next
        week.  I can't seem to find anything on the web showing exactly
        which streets or even parts of town that the torch will be relayed
        through in each city.  Is this secret information, or am I just
        searching under the wrong key words?
        \_ Do you think anyone has bothered to put this online?
                \_ no, of course not. never. they're too busy putting
                   important information online, like how hot it is in
                   some random city, or how a local boyscout troop helped
                   an old lady cross the street, or the successes of
                   online dating.
        \_ I would think it would be public info, and thus on-line.  I
           mean the whole point is for people to watch the torch relay.
           Hard to do, if you don't know where to go to watch it.
        \_ The Olympics and the entire torch relay is just another capitalist
           western bushco driven plot to misdirect us and distract us from the
           real threat to world peace:them and the right wing controller media
           \_ thank you, NERFAMC
              \_ What's NERFAMC?
                 \_ Not Even Remotely Funny Anonymous Motd Comic
                    \_ It wasn't intended to be funny.  Maybe that's why it
                       wasn't, eh?  Not everything here is for your amusement.
                       Actually, nothing posted on the motd is for your
                       entertainment.  If you happen to be entertained along
                       the way, it's a fluke.
2004/6/11 [Uncategorized] UID:30749 Activity:high
6/11    Is there a car model named "Symphony"?  Which manufacturer is it?  Thx.
        \_ 3... profit!!
2004/6/11 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/Security] UID:30750 Activity:high
6/11    I want to give my compile really high priority, in hopes of
        getting it to compile a little faster, so I ran : nice -20 make
        but all i got was the error: setpriority: Permission denied. help?
        \_ Only root can set a priority higher than default.
        \_ only root can raise priority, dude.
           \_ Dang.  I need to get root on this box (my work box).
              There's all kinds of stuff that needs fixin'
        \_ If you have a dual-cpu or a P4 with HT you can try spawning more
           compile threads.
              \_ what else are you running on the box that would lead you
                 to think that renicing will have an impact?
                 \_ Actually the problem is I'm running Enterprise Linux 3
                    (Kernel 2.4), in which the VM sucks.  Either way, I'm
                    running a dual processor Xeon, but only about 2% of
                    the processor time is being used.  I thought I'd take
                    a shot at raising priority, just because I knew I
                    couldn't fix the problem without root access.  (My
                    sysadmin hasn't helped.)
                    \_ if you're not CPU bound, nice won't change anything.
                    \_ Let me guess, you have a big fat shitty 5400 rpm
                       Maxtor?  Probably sharing the IDE bus.
                       \_ Sorry, it's a 15000 RPM Seagate Cheetah on
                          Ultra SCSI.  The probelm really is Linux.
2004/6/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30751 Activity:insanely high
6/11    Would any Dems or Reps disagree:
        RR > GB > GWB
        \_ I'd say GB > RR > GWB  -liberal
           \_ I agree. GHWB was much more of a pragmatist, and much less of
              an ideologue than the other two. I didn't agree with a lot of
              his policies, but his presidency didn't fill me with terror.
              \_ The man was head of the friggin' CIA!!  What the fuck is
                 wrong with you?  Pramatist?  You mean the way it's ok to
                 just fucking shoot someone in the head if you don't like
                 their political philosophy?!
                 \_ Yes, he was a republican and a cold warrior with cia
                    roots, but he also understood the value of diplomacy.
                    And on the economy, he said "no new taxes" but when it
                    came down to it, he wasn't willing to bankrupt the
                    country the way his half-witted son is doing. It may be
                    largely subjective, but, like I said, as much as I
                    disliked him and his party, he just didn't scare me
                    like Bonzo or Dumbya.
                    \_ So he was a vicious bastard, a killer, a thug, and he
                       was the King VB,K,T for a few years before becoming
                       President and you think that's ok because he raised
                       taxes?  You're nuts.
                       \_ calm down.
                          \_ I'm calm.  You're praising a thug.
                       \_ so how would you order the three?
                          \_ GWB > RR > GB.  GWB and RR never ordered anyone
                             to be murdered.
              \_ I didn't agree with him, but I could respect his point of
                 view and way of doing things.
                 \_ In what way did he do things?  What are you talking about?
             \_ at least GHWB saw some real action - got shot down by
                japanese plane.
        \_ GB , RR >> GWB -liberal
        \_ RR >>> GB + GWB  - moderate
        \_ Has anybody else noticed that in the beginning of the last century
           we had 3 persidents with alliterative names?  WW, CC and HH.
           Were alliterative baby names a fad in the mid 1800's?
           \_ You have discovered our secret!  Now you must die!
        \_ RR > GWB > GB -conservative
           \_ agreed, except RR >>>>>> others  -another conservative
              \_ Agreed. -- ilyas
            \_ what makes GWB > GB?
               \_ GB was a flip floppy wishy washy man that no one liked for
                  good reason.  GWB is nothing like his father.  That makes
                  him better than his father in this case.
        \_ Take away the propaganda, and what you're left with is
           left hand amputed > deaf > blind.  The choices already suck.
           \_ More like lobotomy in the current case.
              \_ Yeah, he's a real dumbshit.  So how is it that this dumbshit
                 has control of all 3 branches of government?  How much more
                 stupid are your guys if they let him do this?
                 \_ America wants small government and protection for the
                    homeland.  America thinks you need more guts than brains
                    for this task.  Think Kerry:  brains (maybe), no guts.
                    \_ He got elected during a time of peace.  Security was low
                       on the list and "homeland" wasn't in the vocabulary yet.
                 \_ The economist article on Reagan was great.  "Clearly the
                    man was no intellectual.  Yet surprisingly, he was the man
                    for the job."  Lenin was an intellectual.  Sometimes I
                    wonder if we need less intellectuals in govenment. -- ilyas
                    \_ Did the economist fail to read Reagan's papers?  Must
                       be or they just had an axe to grind.
                    \_ nah, lenin was an ideologue, just like RR and GB.
                       \_ Lenin was an intellectual.
                    \_ You would.
                       \_ No one wants an "intellectual" as President, when
                          you could have a "strong leader" instead.  But,
                          everyone wants an "intelligent" leader.
                          Big difference.
                          everyone wants an "intelligent" leader.  Big
                          difference.  And even though I completely disagree,
                          nearly all Republicans would say that Bush is
                          \_ No.  I would say Bush is a somewhat above average
                             "Joe" kind of guy who follows through on what he
                             says.  No one can pin the "wishy washy" label on
                             the man.  Sometimes in life it is better to just
                             *do* something, even if it is the wrong thing than
                             sit on your ass wondering what to do.  Doing
                             nothing is often the worst option.  We call it
                             'leadership' when you decide *before* seeing the
                             poll results what you're going to do.
                             \_ But it's not so good when you decide without
                                considering the long-term consequences. This
                                kind of "leadership" is like that of the
                                first lemming leading the others over a cliff.
                                \_ I said "sometimes".  And yes "sometimes" it
                                   is better to act immediately than ponder the
                                   longer term consequences becausing pausing
                                   to do so takes time during which things may
                                   get even worse than whatever your long term
                                   consequences were from the initial decision.
                                   It also means not going all wiggly when the
                                   rubber hits the road and things don't go
                                   perfectly.  In real life they never do.  A
                                   man who understands that has leadship
                    \_ Reagan "glazed over in meetings" and let his aides write
                       all his speeches and make policy decisions. I'm not sure
                       these are admirable leadership traits. The economic
                       policy of huge tax cuts, increased spending, and
                       increased payroll taxes makes little sense to me. If you
                       believe in small government you should cut the services,
                       not shovel the debt into the future.
                       \_ Yes, it's true.  You have discovered that he was
                          suffering from Alzheimers in his last years.  This
                          may come as a shock to you, but the rest of us knew
                          it at the time.
                       \_ My officemate and I are TAing a class for my advisor.
                          He basically lets us handle most of the decisions for
                          the class, including grading, the kind of midterm to
                          give, etc.  Does this mean he is a bad teacher or
                          not intelligent?  Reagan's spending was mostly
                          military, and I would say they were due to specific
                          international circumstances at the time.  His record
                          wasn't perfect, but as The Economist noted, Reagan
                          was a libertarian at heart. -- ilyas
                          \_ You guys got everything all mixed up.
                             Dubya is The Great Delegator.
                          \_ I don't consider big tax-cut + big spending to be
                             an example of leadership. It's the easy way out.
                             It's just ignoring reality. Whatever Reagan was at
                             heart he never consistently applied it to policy.
                             From the article: "...spent much of his presidency
                             compromising the free-market principles...", "one
                             of the more protectionist American presidents".
                             Add to that his lying about Iran-Contra. I don't
                             think any of this points to strong principles.
                             I consider Truman the greatest 20th century
                             president by the way. That was a guy who had
                             both capability and responsibility, who actually
                             led rather than function as a figurehead. "The
                             buck stops here."
                             \_ lied about iran contra?  next you'll say the
                                actions in central america were evil.  you
                                know, freeing the people from the evil
                                sandinistas?  yeah much better to let that
                                shit continue and allow the ussr to establish
                                a base in our hemisphere.  brilliant.
                                \_ so it's ok for the president to knowingly
                                   break laws passed by Congress as well as
                                   U.N. sanctions, as long as it's for the
                                   noble cause of aiding guerilla death
                                   squads against a democratically-elected
                                   government and appeasing Iranian terrorists
                                   who were at war with Iraq who we supported.
                                   Brilliant! Oh and the lying, piff.
                                   \_ Break laws?  Name the law.  And yes it
                                      is absolutely ok for the President to
                                      ignore the UN.  You're a bit confused
                                      about who was running Nicaragua at the
                                      time.  You're aware that the now truly
                                      democratic governments that have been
                                      elected since then are all very pro-US
                                      and very very happy that the US saved
                                      them back then?  We're talking here about
                                      governments elected by the now free
                                      Nicaraguan people.  Free people who keep
                                      re-electing pro-democracy, pro-US
                                      governments?  Maybe you think they'd
                                      prefer to get the sandinistas back or
                                      miss those butchers at all?  They only
                                      miss their dead relatives killed by the
                                      illegal sandinista government.
                                      \_ sheesh, might wanna work on that
                                         signal to noise ratio re: nicaragua.
                                         And ignoring the U.N. is one thing.
                                         But when the United States happens to
                                         be signatory to international treaties
                                         including accepting the U.N. charter
                                         then it's not the president's prerog-
                                         ative to violate them.
           \_ Which propaganda is that?
              \_ Right-wing == corporate media propaganda
                               Clinton-haters, Bush-lovers
                 Left-wing  == traditional liberal media
                               Clinton-lovers, Bush-haters
                 \_ So the right = propaganda, the left = goodness++?  Okey!
                    Glad you cleared that up in an unbiased and rational way.
2004/6/11 [Health] UID:30752 Activity:high
6/7     Deleting this post is futile. I will just keep trying. Here is a
        hypothetical question. You're a medic and you have 5 morphines.
        There are 10 wounded soldiers, 5 will die for sure and 5 will
        live for sure. All are suffering and are requesting for morphine.
        Should you give the morphine to those who are gonna die (so that
        they can die in peace) or should you give the morphine to those
        will will live? There's no right/wrong answer, I'm just looking
        for explanations and logic, thanks.
        \_ One utilitarian answer would give morphine to 5 soldiers who will
           live.  Why:  Assuming the total amount of suffering will be the same
           regardless of whether the soldier lives or dies, and assuming you
           can't 'split' morphine doses, the ones who live will have the
           memory of their suffering as additional sources of suffering.
           The ones who die will not.  Thus to minimize suffering you should
           administer the morphine to ones who will live. -- ilyas
                      \- the utilitarian approach here is subject to the
                         cookie monster problem. it also would say "if it
                         would make a racist hick sitting at home in west
                         virginia less happy to know you are treating a
                         black solider over a white soldier, you must factor
                         in his displeasure". --psb
           \_ But which is worse, the memory of having endured great pain, or
              the memory of the cries of the dying?
        \_ I thought morphine was purely a comfort thing and, in fact,
           increases bleeding. If you're more likely to die with the
           morphine, why not give it to the ones already dying?
        \_ How long until the dieing die?  How long until the wounded are no
           longer in pain or more morphine iis available?  I'd minimize total
           duration of suffering.  OTOH, if giving morphine to those will live
           will signifigant improve their outcome, they win.
           \- Why dont you read a book such as: Thomas Nagle: Equality and
              Partiality, BTW, Nagle was teaching at
              Berkeley last term. Dunno if he is still around. You need some
              ethical framework to talk about this intelligently and an anon
              MOTD discussion isnt a great format for this. There are lots
              of other recommendations if you are specific about what you are
              interested in. --psb
              \- One substantial comment: maybe there is no right answer, but
                 there are certainly many many wrong answers. "I'd auction
                 the morphine off to the 5 willing to pay the most" is probably
                 not an "ethical allocation". --psb
        \_ how many bullets do we have to put the dying out of their misery?
        \_ Give them to your friends first, then to the people who sound
           like they're hurting the most.  Those left out will certainly think
           this is fair.  If your medical training tells you that some should
           have priority, that naturally competes with friendship.
        \_ if they're gonna die, let them die. Give the morphines to the
           ones who will live so that they can live to tell others what a
           great medic you are.                         -guy without morals
        \_ say f$# it and take the morphine yourself
2004/6/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:30753 Activity:moderate
6/11    1985: Kerry Asks to Postpone Anti-satellite
        Weapons Test until After Reagan-Gorbachev Summit
        Why delete an article form the Wash. Post???
        \_ Why post an article from 1985?  Oh, yeah, because the Right has
           nothing stronger on Kerry than whether he toed the Gipper's line.
           God, I'm going to enjoy watching Kerry win.
           \_ It's called 'history'.  The man has a ~20 year record in public
              office.  You're saying we're only allowed to see him for his
              last 6 months or something?  Next you'll be bitching about not
              getting URLs from the early 80s.
        \_ If that's what it is, link to that, not freeper garbage. Here's
           a real link to wash. post: (Robert G. Kaiser is communist?)
         "...Gorbachev brusquely dismissed the suggestion that Reagan had
         intimidated either him or the Soviet Union, or forced them to make

         Washington, D.C.: Your piece in the Post today was excellent. What do
         you believe Gorbachev is thinking when he reads this week's Economist
         or all of the other nonsense about how Reagan won the Cold War?

         Robert G. Kaiser: I haven't seen the Economist piece, but I think
         Gorbachev made clear his reaction to me: "That's not serious!" In my
         view it is profoundly insulting to Gorbachev, and to the citizens of
         the former Soviet empire, to give an American primary credit for what
         happened at the end of the 1980s in Eastern Europe. Every American
         president from Truman onward was vigilantly, and expensively,
         anti-communist and anti-Soviet. As Gorbachev pointed out, this cost us
         trillions of dollars. But it did help prevent any spread of communism
         beyond the borders of the empire Stalin created after World War
         II. Reagan's biggest historical advantage was to be on duty when the
         end came. But I am confident that my grandchildren will read that
         Gorbachev himself was the principal hero of this drama.
         \_ So if Carter, that simpering wimp was on duty when the USSR fell
            you really think we'd give him credit for it?  No.  Because he
                \_ No, of course you wouldn't.
            didn't do jack.  Oh yeah, there was that great malaise speech and
            we tired yellow ribbons on trees and posts for the hostages he
            couldn't do a damned thing about.
2004/6/11 [Transportation/Car] UID:30754 Activity:insanely high
        sad, but what a coincidence.
        \_ Sherrif Dunning needs to get his ass runned over
2004/6/11 [Computer/HW/Memory] UID:30755 Activity:high
6/11    What's the deal with RAM ratings these days?  I tried putting in
        PC133 in a newer machine and it wouldn't boot.  If I buy the PC3200
        they're advertising on slickdeals, will that work even if my computer
        is rated at 2400?  TIA.
        \_ Up till around PC150-166 the number meant the MHz of the bus.  When
           DDR came around it stopped making sense.   PC2100 is a 266MHz DDR
           RAM.  PC2400 is 300MHz.  Most of the time you can use faster-rated
           RAM, but there are no guarantees and mixing speeds is more likely
           to cause a problem.
           Also, PC600,PC800,PC1066 are all Rambus RAMs with the number
           directly telling the MHz.
2004/6/11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:30756 Activity:nil
6/11    Anybody know what's the story with all this new German spam?
        At least it is easy to filter.
        \_ Now that you have discovered the German spam we will have to kil
           \_ you deleted my post.  Please use motdedit if you're not going
              to be careful.
              \_ do you have any idea what happened to the last guy that whined
                 about his post and motdedit?
2004/6/11-13 [Recreation/Dating] UID:30757 Activity:moderate
6/11    Helpful for sodans:
        \_ wow, that was great, thanks for the link! :)  (Married myself,
           but interesting to see what geeks out there are doing!!! Esp
           the 3rd and 4th guys...)
           \_ um, are you not happy with your marriage?
           \_ Pathetic, mostly. However, I know a widow who is about
              60 but looks about 40. She is worth many million $$$. She
              paid $10K (!!!) to a dating service that screens people
              extensively (including interview with psychologist). One
              of her dates was on the board at Nike, so others must be
              signing up, too. There is money to be made here! It's so
              sad, though!
              \_ I'm the above person, and very happy with my marriage.  And
                 also very amused by the technical tricks used above to get
                 dates.  Never said I *needed* them myself, but VERY amused :)
                 (In fact, forwarded the link to my wife, who also found it
              \_ I'm not the above person.  I'm very happy with my marriage.
                 I sometimes check the personals to remind myself how fucking
                 fantastic my wife is and how miserable I would be if I
                 didn't have her.
              \_ Hmmm, so do most Sodans lack the requisite social skills
                 for interpersonal relationships? I've met some XCFers
                 before and they were definitely very shy. Some of the
                 others are just a little bit weird (but hey, who isn't).
                 However, it appears that most individuals that I've conversed
                 with appear to be socially well adjusted, perhaps forest
                 for the trees?
                 \_ Yes.  As expected.  Many aren't, by definition.  Perhaps.
2004/6/11-12 [Reference/History] UID:30758 Activity:very high
6/11    Troy poll, would you have preferred to see Greek gods/goddesses
        in the movie?
        yes: ..
        no: ..
        \_ Yes of course.  They were an integral and active part of the
           Greek story.
        \_ The director said he'd decided to forgo the gods, yet Achilles'
           prowess clearly shows this to be a farce.  Just bring back
           Burgess Meredith and get it over with.
2004/6/11-7/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30759 Activity:high
6/11    German artillery, German artillery is the best!
        \_ Incorrect.  Artillery was actually one of the few areas of
           weapons technology in which the Allies were superior in WWII -John
           \_ WWII where we learned that superiour numbers combined with
           \_ before or after the invention of proximty fuse fitted on
              artillery shell?
           \_ WWII where we learned that superior numbers combined with
              superior tactics could overwhelm superior technology even in
              a fortified position.  It's the generals, stupid!
              \_ I heard that a lot from Confederate State of America.
                 \_ You'll note that the Union started winning once they
                    fired their shitty generals and got decent ones.  Good
                    generalship + lots + tech > good generalship.  -John
                    \_ It also helps that a leader who was no military genius
                       would not try to micro-manage the war.  Unwittingly,
                       Hitler helped the Allies in defeating the Germany army.
2004/6/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30761 Activity:nil 52%like:30770
6/11    Iraqi WMD shipped to the Netherlands:
2004/6/11-12 [Uncategorized] UID:30762 Activity:nil
6/11    Rush should have listened to BDG:
2004/6/11-12 [Uncategorized] UID:30763 Activity:nil
6/11    We're done with the morphine topic.  No one else cares anymore.  Let
        it go.  Move on.  Grow up.
2019/08/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:11 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>