6/4     How does one get the reference count of a Java object in Java?
        (Or in the JNI)

6/4     How did Asians and Pacific Islanders get in the same "racial
        grouping?"  There's no cultural connection at all.
        \_ They're all colored folk, duh!
        \_ Read a book.  Race is based on genetics not how you party.
           \_ Ok, then give me a reasonably strong genetic link between
              Pasific Islanders, Indians, and Japanese.  Oh, and where do
              guys like Aboriginies fit in?  They're black but not
              african.
              \_ Australia and the Pacific islands were all settled by
                 people from southeast Asia.
                 \_ He was trying to make a point and you had to bring some
                    trivial and easy to find facts into this.  WTF is wrong
                    with you?  Why are you taking away his right to hate?
                    \_ Sheesh, so was North America, what aren't Native
                       Americans considered asians?  Heck, if you're gonna
                       argue about origins, we all came from Africa.
                       \_ NA aren't asian because they go too far back to
                          that link and due to isolation have become a distinct
                          people not just on a grand scale but between major
                          tribal groups.  The Navajo of today has very little
                          in common with his Asian ancestor of 5k to 10k years
                          ago.  Origins count but drift due to time and
                          isolation creates new races.  If you really want to
                          be that way about it, there is no such thing as race.
                          Humans like to classify things even if they are
                          artificial.  However, since we know from medical
                          research that difference races react differently to
                          different drugs and other procedures there really
                          are different races which most believed formed after
                          the out-of-Africa event or time period.
          \_ If you are really interested in race, there is a good SciAm
             article on it recently, that is well worth reading.  I think I
             was able to find a non-pay link to the text at one point.  i'll
             see if i can dig it up. -phuqm
             http://www.srcf.ucam.org/medsoc/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1

6/4     MacOS X Screensaver Passwd lock security issue:
        Vulnerability: http://tinyurl.com/2ghmz (macosxhints.com)
        Workaround:    http://tinyurl.com/2muab (macosxhints.com)

6/3     there are talks among inner hispanic circles like mesa to use
        the muslim tactic of breeding out existing societies to
        take control of california then succeed from the union.
        Like muslims they will want to claim an independent state.
        they estimate it will take 20 years.
        \_ we will bury you!
        take control of california then succeed from the union.
        Like muslims they will want to claim an independent state.
        they estimate it will take 20 years.
        \_ ^succeed^secede
        \_ Did it occur to any of them that they're gonna need an army to
           secede, and gang-bangers do not an army make?
        \_ In 20 years, California may be Hispanic, but in 20 years, all those
           new Hispanics will be Americanized.
        \_ US needs to make Mexico its 51st state, and get it over already.
        \_ What's an "inner hispanic circle"?  Since when did MESA represent
           anything more than some racist nutbags?  Are they passing fliers
           out to hispanic women asking them to breed for the cause?  And even
           if the state went 99% hispanic, why would any significant number of
           those people want to secede from the US?  This line of thinking is
           just ugly racism.  Summary of thought: someone who is hispanic
           authomatically hates all non-hispanics and loves all hispanics and
           automatically thinks just like we do only because they're hispanic.
           \_ RACIST!

6/3     ilias, do you take pride in everything that's Russian? Do you feel
        proud of Tchaikovsky, Barishnikov, and other Russians?
        \_ The 'clever young russian' thing I wrote earlier is a paraphrase
           of Martin Davis' quote.  Davis conjectured that Hilbert's 10th
           problem will be solved by a clever young russian.  His conjecture
           was proven true in 1970 by Yuri Matyasevich (who was 22 at the time,
           and obviously very clever). -- ilyas
        \_ IN SOVIET RUSSIA, NATION PROUD OF YOU!!!
        \_ Or borscht?
           \_ I love borscht!  I also take great pride in op's spelling
              of my 5 letter login. -- ilyas
              \_ Do you take pride in vodka?
                 \_ I take my vodka with pride. --erikred
              \_ I love borscht as well.  And I'm not Russian. -emarkp
           \_ Or Bolshevism?
        \_ Ilyas is a big fan of the Russian custom of administering beatings
           to lusers.  Sign your posts!
           to lusers.  Sign your posts!  -idiot
        \_ both Russians above are homosexuals. You got a point?
           \_ Baryshnikov is not a homosexual, although you might have to
              wonder about someone who slept with Liza Minnelli.
        \_ How come all the russian girls are so hot compared to american
           girls?

6/4     Question for the anti-Taiwan independence crowd.  Didn't China
        cede Taiwan to Japan in the treaty of Shimonoseki?  -- ilyas
              \_ China tried ceding Taiwan, but Taiwan declared indepen-
                 dence before the Japanese invaded Taiwan, then Japan
                 ceded Taiwan back to China after WWII.  Weird.  That's
                 why Taiwan should declare independence.  We have
                 superior US made weapons that will kick China arse.
                 Some association of US companies in Taiwan put out
                 an advertisement in some Taiwan newspaper last weekend
                 warning Taiwan government to negotiate direct
                 shipping, flight, etc. to PRC, or US companies will all
                 be dumping Taiwan soon.  Those traitors!
                 Taiwan will soon be spending another US$18 billion to
                 buy weapons.  Greedy Americans overcharges Taiwan by
                 an arm and a leg for the weapons since no one else
                 sells to Taiwan.  Those bastards!  But hey, those
                 are some cool toys to play with.  I was personally
                 aboard one of the Knox class destroyers when it was down
                 in Long Beach during handover training after it was
                 bought by Taiwan.  That was one outdated warship.
                 We need a few Aegis boats instead.  Please sell us
                 a few.  PRC commies recently been unofficially
                 publishing list of Taiwan actresses and singers and
                 stars who are pro-independence.  Heard that president
                 Ah Bian recently had trouble inviting any of these
                 money grubbing actresses and singers and stars to
                 his functions.  Those PRC commie bastard bullies!
              \_ yea but article 4 of the Treaty of Peace between China
                 and Japan states that:
                        It is recognised that all treaties, conventions,
                        and agreements concluded before 9 December 1941
                        between Japan and China have become null and
                        void as a consequence of the war.

6/4     Bush gives the Presidential Medal of Freedom to the Pope?
        I don't get it.
        \_ WHY DO YOU HATE CIA?
        \_ It's just a stupid PR stunt.
           \- jesus told him to do it.
        \_ Bush got the advice from the CIA?
        \_ Answering my own post, I guess this is Bush's way of saying
           "Sorry" to Europe, with the nice side effect of boosting
           Latino and religious-minded support!
        \_ Yeah, crazy that a government leader could show respect for a
           religious leader.
           \_ Bush gives Pope medal.  Pope disses Bush on "deplorable events".
              It's kind of absurd.
              \_ Does The Pope hate our freedom?
                 \_ He also dissed same-sex marriage and abortion rights.
              \_ It is absurd, because Bush isn't Catholic. Not being a
                 Catholic is heresy and in the old days they'd burn you
                 in heaps. This policy is currently "in abeyance". In any
                 case Bush is excommunicated.
           \_ deplorable is in association with the Abu Prison.
              Demos and Republicans both are upset with the incidents at
              the prison.
              \_ Bush gives Pope medal.  Pope disses Bush on Abu Ghraib / War.
                 It's kind of absurd.
                 \_ Here is the actual statement by the Pope.  It seems
                    balanced and reasonable:
                    http://tinyurl.com/252u4
                 \_ "a Vatican spokesman said the two were in agreement
                     about the situation in Iraq"
                     http://tinyurl.com/39zdw

6/4     Religious leaders write open letter to Congress opposing amendment
        banning gay marriage.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/04/politics/04gay.html
        \_ I like that last bit: "the amendment would define marriage in
           civil law, not religious ritual" but would use religion as a
           basis for the morality supporting the amendment.
           \_ You should look up the word 'morality'.
              \_ Do you think the President knows the difference?
              \_ mo-ral-i-ty, n.
                 1. The quality of being in accord with standards of right or
                    good conduct.
                 2. A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct.
                 3. Virtuous conduct.
                 It's wholly possible to have a morality not based on religion.
        \_ Of course, there is no amendment proposed to ban gay marriage.  And
           having the Episcopalians (who recently consecrated an openly gay
           Bishop) on in this group isn't exactly any different than having
           Planned Parenthood object to a ban on partial-birth abortion.

6/4     Fuck Enron, Fuck Bush! Bush is Capitalist Scumbag at its best,
        yeah, let the market work it out, hehe.
        \_ huh?
           \_ http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/us_enron_justice
        \_ Too late. They fucked us first.
        \_ How are you linking Bush to Enron?  He didn't help them when they
           asked for it.  Ken Lay is *not* the Sec'y of Energy, etc.  Most of
           the abuses happened when Clinton was president and they got nailed
           during Bush's administration.
           \_ Because obviously EVERYTHING bad is Bush's fault, and
              everything good comes from Democrates.  Sheesh, some people
              are so small minded.
              \_ which obvious logical fallacy is this chump trying to
                 poop into our discourse? 2 points for a correct answer. -aaron
                 \_ straw man?
                 \_ coming from a self proclaimed troll and who gets
                    infuriated, like a little boy with his hand caught in the
                    cookie jar, when he's caught outright making shit up,
                    you're in position to be critical of others here.
           \_ Enron was Bush's number one campaign contributor. Enron helped
              write the American energy policies, in meetings that are still
              being kept secret from the American public. The most severe
              damage to California's economy from the power outages happened
              on Bush's watch. California asked the Bush appointed FERC to
              implement energy caps, which they refused to do. Need I go on?
              \_ Enron was NOT the #1 campaign contributor (I know the Enron
                 yuks said that on the tape, but they were incorrect).  How do
                 you know they helped write energy policies--last I checked the
                 meetings are STILL secret, and congress still hasn't passed
                 Bush's energy bill.  As for caps, conservatives are against
                 them in general.
                 \_ http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=E&Cycle=2000
                    We know that Enron attended the energy meeting hearings.
                    The notes of those meetings are being kept from the
                    public. Did you honestly not know this, or are you being
                    disingenuous?
                    http://www.publicintegrity.org/bop2004/report.aspx?aid=220
                    \_ Are you obtuse?  His energy policy wasn't passed.  It
                       doesn't matter if the only thing to come out of the
                       meetings was a plan to actively fuck CA and divert
                       Iraqi war funds into Ken Lay's pocket.  Nothing came
                       of any of it.
                       \_ Uh, yeah.  The energy bill currently in Congress
                          has not passed.  That's just a portion of the
                          administration's policy.
                    \_ Your link shows Enron at the top of the list in the
                       energy industry, not overall.  I know that Enron-related
                       people were in the meeting, but neither you nor I know
                       what was said.  Keep using that tin-foil hat.
                       \_ Don't need it.  The SC will pry it open soon enough.
                       \_ Did you look at the publicintegrity link? Enron
                          was Bush's number one lifetime contributor in 2000.
                          Until very recently, they were still number 1. So
                          let's see, we know that Bush met with his number
                          one lifetime contributor in the midst of the CA
                          energy crises. We know he has sued to keep the
                          notes from that meeting public. We know he appointed
                          Enron executives to his cabinet. Yet you still
                          maintain that Bush has "no links to Enron." Keep
                          dreaming, bub.
                    \_http://www.opensecrets.org/2000elect/contrib/P00003335.htm
                      \_ http://www.publicintegrity.org/bop2004/candidate.aspx?cid=1&act=cp

6/4     http://www.japantoday.com
        Schoolgirl killer got angry at being called goody two shoes.
        Wow, guess she proved HER wrong, huh?
        \_ Maybe Michael Moore can make a movie called Blogging for Okubo in
           which he can blame the lack of social welfare, the legacy of
           Japanese Imperialism, and Japanese fear of the Black Man on this.
        \_ Oh, even better.  The first girls reponse is just RAD. -jrleek
           http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=popvox&id=486
           \_ LOL. Yeah, they don't have a problem with violence and the
              Internet in South Korea:
              http://csua.org/u/7l7 (Time Magazine article)
                \_ I agree. Most of the Koreans I know are self righteous
                   and arrogant and the the Korean girl in japantoday
                   proves just that.
                   \_ w00t!
        \_ Did nobody else catch THIS gem:
         TOKYO -- Disaster management minister Kiichi Inoue suggested Friday
         that women's social advancement is to blame for a recent murder case
         in which an 11-year-old girl admitted to killing her classmate at a
         primary school in Sasebo, Nagasaki Prefecture.
         "It seems to show that assertive women are increasing," the
         72-year-old Inoue told a press conference, referring to the Sasebo
         case. "It must be the first such case involving a girl," he said. "The
         gap between men and women appears to be have been narrowing recently."
        \_ japanese are weird.  I mean I am a sick person, but some of those
           japanese fetishes are sickening even for me.  I think japanese lost
           their mojo after defeat by us militarily and economically.  that
           screwed up their brains, and they couldn't find a reason to exist.
           they then become weird.
           \_ I think most of east asia would prefer they make tentacle porn
                over being invaded repeatedly
           \_ Dude, I don't think the Japanese needed any help getting weird,
              I think they managed that all on their own LONG before WWII.
              \_ they were not weird before WWII.  they were just barbaric.
                 and militaristic.  now they are weird.
                \_ they were weird before.  And that "barbarism" was a stable
                   feudalism for thousands of years- they had a centralized currency
                   before they had a central government.
                   \_ which is kinda cool if you're a minter, but not if you
                      don't want someone whacking off your head with a big
                      sword for standing in the wrong guy's shadow.
           \_ Alright, so the Japanese specialize in bukkake and the Germans
              specialize in shit eating porn. Both make great cars but also
              do weird things. Something about the Axis I tell ya.
                \_ the Axis is just a symptom... both cultures were characterized
                   by an inferiority complex that could only be remedied by taking
                   over their continent.
           \_ I used to think they were awfully weird too. The underwear in
              the vending booths, bizarro porn, Takeshi's Castle, and
              super strange cartoons. But then you think, hey, we watch a
              cartoon with a sponge that wears pants. Every culture is weird
              in its own way.
                \_ we don't have bukkake and shit eating porn.
                   \_ Uhm, yes we do -- it's just not publicized by American
                      otaku to the same degree.  And learn how to post to motd
                      correctly.
              \_ A sponge isn't weird in that sense. It's just absurd.
                 Anthropomorphic household items are common in cartoons.

6/4     another power outage?
        \_ Not campuswide-- uclink and kalx were unaffected.
        \_ nope, try again:
           soda> uptime
           10:56AM  up 41 days, 16:31, 150 users, load averages: 7.28, 5.09, 3.08
           \_ Those sounds... could be imitated!  --Thufir

6/4     Pew questionnaire: "What's more important... Everyone free to
        pursue goals w/out govt. interference _or_ Govt. guarantee that
        no one is in need?"
        Talk about a false dichotomy.

6/4     How long has school been out?  We're seeing a lot more undergrads
        with too much time on their hands on the motd these days.
        \_ Unlike those with jobs who have too much time all year round.
           \_ Touche'!

6/4     The Seventh Antual ICFP Programming Contest begins!
        http://www.cis.upenn.edu/proj/plclub/contest/task.php

6/4     I'm not sure I can handle 4 more years of this sort of mishandling
        of the economy:
        http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=71000001&refer=home&sid=a_I6S1CQ9YE8
        http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/44113|top|06-04-2004::08:45|reuters.html
        \_ Does anyone know if they succeeded in recategorizing burger flipping
           jobs as manufacturing?
           \_ Do you have anything that says these aren't real jobs?  No, you
              don't.  You're just a hater and wish the whole country would
              take a huge dive solely for the purpose of getting your guy in
              office.  You put your party above the country and you suck.
              \_ Wow.  Would you compare a $5.50/hr job at McDs favorably with
                 a $35k/yr+benefits manufacturing job?  If you can honestly
                 say yes, you're an idiot.  Also, reread what I asked.  This
                 was an actual proposal from BLS.  I asked if it had gone
                 through.  Cut it with the knee-jerking.
                 \_ Do you have a single thing that says the new jobs are
                    $5.5/hr jobs?  The rest is a red herring.
                    \_ Did I say I did?  I asked a question which was directly
                       related, and you proceeded to spew.  One of the main
                       points in the report were that manufacturing gains were
                       strong.  If that proposal became policy, this could
                       have a direct impact to the discussion, but as you don't
                       have an answer to my question, stick a cork in it.
        \_ More McJobs!  Greater rich-poor gap! Quick, pretend Iraq didn't
           happen!
           \_ McJobs?  You have something that says these aren't real jobs or
              you're just mouthing off like the partisan hack that you are?
           \_ Yeah, let's get those jobs based on nothing that we had 5 years
              ago.
              \_ We need a strong president who will keep the economy and
                 job market from changing!
                 \_ More stable unjobs!
        \_ Economic policies take years to have any effect.  The economy for the
           past few years has been fueled by debt, especially with mortgage refinancing
           being a major factor in freeing up money.  I personally don't blame
           Bush for the crummy economy and I think it's disingenous to do so.
           But I think it's naive to assume it was his handling that
           helped or that his current policy won't be destabilizing in the future.
           Also note that the government has  expanded since 9/11 and government
           expansion tends to help the economy.
                --jeffwong
        \_ Economic policies take years to have any effect.  The economy for
           the past few years has been fueled by debt, especially with
           mortgage refinancing being a major factor in freeing up money.  I
           personally don't blame Bush for the crummy economy and I think it's
           disingenous to do so.  But I think it's naive to assume it was his
           handling that helped or that his current policy won't be
           destabilizing in the future.  Also note that the government has
           expanded since 9/11 and government expansion tends to help the
           economy.  --jeffwong  [formatd]
           \_ Oh, come on!  Don't bring reality into this.  We all know that
              President have little to do with the economic ups and downs of
              their term in office but we need this so we can say how Clinton
              was great and Bush sucks.

6/4     Please don't nuke the motd.
        \_ I don't think that was an intentional nuke, but someone's editor
           freaking because /TMP IS FULL!!!!
           \_ It looks like some version of motdedit is writing temp files
              there instead of maybe /csua/tmp.  Bad idea?  Also mconst
              has a bunch of pngs in there.
              \_ /csua/tmp fills up more often than /tmp
                 \_ But doesn't start to take down basic shell commands and
                    mail programs.

6/4     Dog eats master:
        http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215407

6/4     Computers might lead to autism:
        http://arstechnica.com/news/posts/1086361542.html
        http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/04/1086203610297.html

6/4     pr0n more popular than google:
        http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/04/technology/porn_search.reut/index.htm

6/4     Awesome!  (But notice the lame quote by an "animal rights activist"
        at the end of the article)
        http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/5/prweb128904.htm
        \_ obviously fake.  come on.
           \_ Which part, the bear killing, the quote, or all of it?
              \_ all of it.  -tom

6/4     Zero bytes?  Restored.

6/4     What is the purpose of the iPod dock that comes with the 20 and 40GB
        models?  Is it entirely so that your iPod can stand up when its
        transferring songs, or is it aimed at something else?
        (Clarification: what does it do that the regular cord doesn't do?)
        \_ AFAIK it includes a couple of extra options like input/output jacks
           of one sort or the other that don't come standard with the regular
           cable.
        \_ Doesn't it charge the iPod too?
           \_ The cable that comes with the 15 iPod charges already through
              FireWire.
        / i use it to plug into my stero directly. its cool to be able to
          select your mix and then just drop it in and let the music bump.

6/4     Hong Kong Vigil Remembers Tiananmen Square Killings
        http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/04/international/asia/04CND-HONG.html?hp
        "Hong Kong should become the foundation for Chinese people to pursue
        democracy" ... In an action certain to anger Beijing further, activists
        here have distributed flyers to mainland tourists this year for the
        first time, urging them to attend the candlelight vigil.
        http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040604/481/xvy10606041302

6/4     CNN:  "Thousands march in Rome against Iraq war"
        Actually that's "hundreds of thousands".

6/4     Want to get buff? Stop drinking soy:
        http://www.t-mag.com/articles/185soy.html
        http://getbuf.com/articles/soyestrogen.shtml

6/4     M$ Japan cancels development of True Fantasy Live Online:
        http://csua.org/u/7li (Wired)
        Rumor has it that the game featured a virtual version of Windows
        that never crashed and was invulnerable to malware, but testers
        refused the scenario as simply too unrealistic.
         \_ speaking of which:  my XP laptop crashes everytime it tries
           to access the CDrom after it has been running for a while.
           (so, i can restart and use the cd/dvd but if i've had it on
            for a while already and try, it is sure to crash).  It seems
            to happen whenever it spins up, even though i have disabled
            autoplay.  Any suggestions besides getting real os?
            \_ you could try booting knoppix to see if it works there.
               check out the ide controller settings. does it just lock up?
                \_ yeah, locks up, can't move mouse curser, suck.
            \_ heat problem?
               \_ why the correlation witht the DVD player?
                  \_ CD drives get really hot when they spin up.  Try using
                     the CD for a while, and then feel that part of the case.
                  \_ I was only guessing it is heat but it is kind of weird
                     that rebooting will 'fix' it.  If I'm right then it's
                     something weird like the heat causes some bits of on-board
                     cache or other non-ROM to get corrupted and rebooting
                     flushes/reloads that memory.  If it isn't heat, then it
                     is some driver bug with a memory leak that is corrupting
                     it's own memory space and maybe whatever else it can get
                     to nearby in the kernel.  I don't remember what execution
                     layer things like cd drivers run at in windows.  I
                     consider forgetting things like that a sign of good
                     mental health.

6/4     "If 50 percent of the people applying for the job of store
        manager are women, we will work to make sure that 50 percent
        of the people receiving those jobs are women," Scott said.
        "My bonus next year could decline by as much as 15 percent if
        I don't live up to my diversity goals."
        http://csua.org/u/7lh
        \_ Uh, what about other variables, like qualifications?  The object
           of discrimination lawsuits is to prove there exists a _direct
           causal link_ between gender and hiring. -- ilyas
           \_ You do know that quotas are illegal in any government-funded
              institution?  I also realize that Wal-Mart is private sector,
              so the law requires something different, perhaps just as you've
              described.
              \_ I believe what I've described had to be proven in the
                 infamous Berkeley discrimination suit.  There was an added
                 twist -- if you looked at overall statistics, men were
                 more likely to be admitted than women, but in each
                 specific department, the opposite was true.  If that seems
                 odd to you, you are not alone.  Statisticans call that
                 'the Simpson paradox.' -- ilyas
                 \_ So, do you know that quotas are illegal in any
                    government-funded institution?  This was also a result
                    of the infamous Berkeley discrimination suit.
                    \_ It's good quotas are illegal, but there are effectively
                       quotas in most government jobs.  Just look at a picture
                       of NASA folk working on the shuttle some time, and put
                       people in gender and race bins, and compare to
                       frequencies in the US population. -- ilyas
        \_ A private-sector quota system!  At Wal-Mart!
           \_ The big Boss giveth, and the big Boss can taketh away.
        \_ If 50% of the applicants are morons, half of the hires will be
           morons!
           \_ Wrong!  At Wal-mart, ALL the hires will be morons,
              regaurdless!

6/4     Dear motd, after watching the History Channel, D-Day week specials
        I've developed a fetish/dream where I'm dressed up like a US
        soldier and after liberating the German people I start to have
        lots of sex with gorgeous young German women and I yell out
        "take that you Nazi pussy!". Should I get help?
        \_ Yes, you are delusional.  There are no gorgeous German women.
        \_ s/German/French/g
        \_ Actually that's pretty much what happened.  After VE day, the
           American soldiers were tromping all over Europe fucking, stealing,
           and black marketing their way through post war Europe.  It was a
           good time to be an American soldier.  There's plenty of material
           both written and on the web what post war Europe was like.  It
           wasn't pretty.
           \_ Oh you mean compared to the legions of panzers knocking down
              your shed, your village being herded into the church and
              burned because little Billy took a potshot at Hans the Friendly
              Nazi, being denounced and sent to Auschwitz because after 50
              years your Polack neighbors decide they don't much like Jews
              after all, or being nailed to a barn door by a gang of Soviet
              thugs because your last name is Schmidt?  To the victors belong
              the spoiled young frauleins.  -John
              \_ Are you trying to make some sort of Nazi/Hussein comparison?
                 Just because Hussein killed more of his own people every 6
                 weeks than have died since day 1 of GW2 and the average
                 citizen has more food, electricity and cleaner water than
                 ever before does not excuse forcing a few guys to pile up in
                 a naked pyramid last November 8th or making them wear women's
                 panties on their head.  It is an atrocity of the same level as
                 9/11.  Soros, Citizen-Leader of the Free World, said almost
                 exactly that the other day.  So there you have it.  Americans
                 are like the Soviets and Nazis and the Iraqis are like the
                 Nazi victims (except for the evil Jew, death to them).
              \_ yea, but there is already enough whining by the Jews over
                 the past 50 years, and we already know the soviets are
                 thugs and out for revenge for what the Germans did to them.
                 We need to hear more about American thugs.
                 \_ Yeah, fuck the Jews.  They just turned out to be a bunch
                    of baby killers who all go into the army to kill old women
                    in their sleep and shoot completely innocent civilians
                    just going about their own business and trying to get by
                    under the yoke of oppression!  I think the PLO as a whole
                    should win the Nobel Peace Prize this year with a close
                    runner up for Al Qaeda.  The only good Jew is a right Jew,
                    runner up for Al Qaeda.  The only good Jew is a dead Jew,
                    right brother?
                    \_ "Fuck the Jews, they never vote for us anyway."
                        -James Baker III
                        \_ Yeah, who wants the baby killer vote anyway?
                    \_ These constant "fuck the jews" comments which are
                       obviously posted by someone who, if not actually
                       jewish, is at least rabidly pro-Israel in a pathetic
                       attempt to paint anyone who opposes you as racist are
                       really some of the most disgusting strawman arguments
                       I have ever seen.
                       \_ You almost had it but then it slipped away from you
                          by the end.  I believe that in time you'll get it.
                          If you were around longer or had your eyes or your
                          heart open a little more you would see it was just
                          a bunch of real quotes from real people that have
                          been posted to the motd over the years.  Think about
                          that for a while.  That's the real thing, baby.
                          There is no need to make it up when it's all around.

6/4     Loan experts. What are the difference between the two scenarios?
        1. borrow 100k at 6% for 30 years, pay off 50k immediately
        2. borrow 50k at 6% for 30 years.
        According to my loan program, I pay quite bit more in 1. but
        shouldn't the two be the same? ie, in 1, the interest also
        starts pretty much with 50k principle.. what causes the
        difference? Thanks.
        \_ Your 50k must be 50k of the principle--that is 50k + 1st month
           interest + same principle as loan 2.
        \_ As above says, but also make sure your loan doesn't have any
           pre-payment penalties and as they say make sure your 50k is going
           to principle, not interest.  Then it becomes the same.  Almost.
           You'll end up paying a few days interest on that 50k.
        \_ If this is a mortgage - like loan, some have origination
           "points" or fee structures based on the principal amount.
           nitpick: principal not principle.