Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:03 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2004/6/3 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Health] UID:30560 Activity:moderate
6/3     Ok, who wants to share my recursion theory pain?  I just spent a really
        long time on a problem, and I want to make some volunteer suffer like
        I did.  If there's any interest, I ll post the problem. -- ilyas
        \_ Hah!  You want us to do your homework, huh?  The problem is
           trivial.  Check the man pages or look it up on Sun's website.
           \_ It's true that this is my homework, but I did make sure to do
              it first, before posting. -- ilyas
              \_ The answer must be in the man pages somewhere.
        \_ go ahead, i'm game
           \_ seconded
              \_ Ok.  For the purposes of this problem, we are dealing with
                 functions which accept a set of bitstrings as input, and
                 output bitstrings.  The problem is to construct two
                 (computable) functions f and g with the following properties:
                 (a) f and g take two arguments each
                 (b) for any two inputs, f returns a turing machine (TM)
                     where the language it accepts is decidable and disjoint
                     from the language accepted by a TM returned by g.
                     (g must also return a decidable TM).
                 (c) if f is given as input any two TMs (in your favorite
                     bitstring encoding) that accept complementary languages,
                     f returns an encoding for a TM which accepts the same
                     language as argument 1, and if g is given same, it
                     returns an encoding for a TM which accepts the same
                     language as argument 2.
                 Note: if f or g return a 'malformed' bitstring, which does
                 not code a TM, the accepted language is considered to be
                 empty (hence decidable).  Note 2: all finite sets are
                 decidable.  This problem is very hard.  I posted it
                 because I am a sadist. -- ilyas
                 \_ My guess is that you first make f do something
                    reasonable.  Then you make g have a copy of f inside
                    it so that g can do the opposite.  You said that the
                    problem was very hard, though, so perhaps this
                    strategy runs into decidability problems.
                    \_ Sure, this works fine.  You do have to figure out how
                       to make f do something reasonable, though.  --mconst
2004/6/3 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Recreation/Sports] UID:30561 Activity:high
6/2     Game review: Beyond Good and Evil.  Really well done, how come I
        didn't hear squat about his game before now?  Horrid title, good
        gameplay, lags a little in the middle, but what game doesn't?  Does
        a great job with the learning curve, never seems too hard.  Probably
        a bit short, but these days I appreciate a good well done short game.
        Definate renter, possible buy.  -aspo
        \_ Beyond Good & Evil sucks.  It got great reviews by most critics,
           but the public didn't buy it at all.  I did, unfortunately.  I
           played the first hour of the game and immediately put it on eBay,
           to me it's THAT BAD.  What's to not like:
           - Ugly character:  short hair, looks like a boy, no body, green
           lipstick, looks like an 80's punk girl.  In a game you're the
           character, the person has to be likable, Jade is not.
           - Boring character:  no charisma, nothing, she's boring
           - Stupid side-kick:  a pig as a sidekick?  Maybe when I was 10
           years old, not in an adult game.  Imagine if Solid Snake was
           walking around with a talking pig, insults adult intelligence.
           - Hammy:  too tounge and cheek, very hammy dialogue, the voice
           acting seems partly joking partly serious, too in-your-face.
           - Boring gameplay:  take pictures, fight, take pictures, fight...
           + Great graphics
           + Great production value
           \_ A pig for a sidekick?  That's nutty.  Really?  Does it fight or
              carry a pig-gun or something?
              \_ If you get low on energy, you get to eat it.
                 \_ Weird.  And this got rated a great game by someone?
2004/6/3 [Uncategorized] UID:30562 Activity:high
6/3     Slightly more nuanced poll...
        1. Did Scott Peterson kill Lacy?
           Yes: ....
           No :
           Don't know : .
        2. Is Scott Peterson guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?
           \_ I intended this question as "would you vote to convict?" -op
              \_ I think we answered that way.
              \_ how can you vote without hearing the evidence?
                 \_ Since we're not jurors, our vote doesn't matter, and we
                    only base our votes on what we know of the case.
                    \_ Well, all I know is that I know too little to make
                       a good judgement on whether he is guilty beyond
                       reasonable doubt.
                       \_ He either did it, or else he's both incredibly
                          unlucky and stupid.
                          \_ He sold shit for a living.  How lucky or smart
                             could he really be?
           Yes: .
           No : ....
        3. Scott Peterson trial verdict?
           Guilty    : .
           Not Guilty: ..
           Mistrial  :
           Not Sure.  It's a toss up: .
        \_ who cares.  now can I delete this thread?
             Yes:
             No:  ...
2004/6/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:30563 Activity:very high
6/3     Tenet resigns:
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12296-2004Jun3.html
        \_ Yup, looks like the administration is siding with Chalabi.  Also
           interesting timing with Bush consulting a lawyer over the whole
           Plame thing.
           \_ Can you please connect-the-dots for those of us not frothing or
              tinhat fashionable enough to see what Chalabi has to do with
              Bush seeing a lawyer for some other issue?  Also, if we held it
              against every President who talked to a lawyer, they'd all be in
              prison.
           \_ It's a stretch to connect this with "siding with Chalabi", even
              though I personally think Chalabi was framed (or the CIA screwed
              up another one -- saw what they wanted to see).
              \_ Just curious, why do you think Chalabi was "framed" even
                 though there is overwhelming evidence that the guy is just a
                 crook?  He was a well known crook even before the Pentagon
                 adopted him.  Who's the one wearing the tinfoil hat here,
                 again?
                 \_ I don't know if "framed" is the right word, but the timing
                    of the raid on his office was mighty convenient: it
                    allowed the Prez to pretend to be distancing himself
                    from a crooked thief and liar.
                 \_ Scenario 1:  Chalabi told Iran's Baghdad intelligence
                    station chief that the U.S. cracked their code and is
                    reading all Iranian intelligence messages.  Iran's Baghdad
                    station chief sends a *detailed* message (including the
                    part about the drunken American) to headquarters using
                    same code.
                    This part of the story sounds highly implausible; I have
                    read no explanation for this.
                    Scenario 2:  Chalabi just told you, as station chief, that
                    the code encrypting all your intelligence communications
                    has been cracked by the Americans.  You know Chalabi will
                    get royally fucked if he is revealed as the source, so he
                    must want some reward or have a great interest in helping
                    Iran.  You travel to Iran and personally disclose this to
                    HQ, and then send a dummy message to confirm that the
                    Americans have cracked your code.
                    Scenario 3:  Iran wants Chalabi out.  Iran knows the CIA
                    wants him out.  Iran has known for a while the U.S. has
                    "that" code cracked.  Intelligence chief pens the frame-up
                    story to HQ, knowing this is what the CIA most wants to
                    hear.  Chalabi represents a secular Iraq, and has strong
                    ties with Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz, Defense Department.  Whack
                    the Americans' best bud.
                    The simplest answer here is scenario 3, a frame-up.
                    Scenario 1 is what the CIA wants you to believe; scenario
                    2 is how it should have happened if it were true.
                    I also am skeptical about Chalabi's "crook" labels.
                    I'm going to stick with "distrust" from the State
                    Department and CIA.
                    Simplest answer Part Deux:  Evidence surfaces that the
                    CIA just got duped again, and involving the idiot Chalabi
                    of all people.  Tenet resigns.
                    \_ So Chalabi's white collar criminal convictions mean
                       nothing?  The guy is a well known crook and has
                       zero credibility with just about everybody at this
                       point.  Your "frame up" scenario is far less
                       plausible than anything else I've heard thus far.
                       Sorry!
                       \_ I know it's a little hard to believe the CIA could
                          be so wrong.
                          Some history:  What happened in Jordan was that
                          Chalabi used a lot of personal connections to move
                          money into the bank.  However, he also loaned a lot
                          of money to family, and these loans defaulted.  He
                          speculated, and lost all the bank's money.
                          He ran, Jordan had to cover all the costs, and they
                          convicted him in absentia.
                          He also fed people to Rumsfeld saying Saddam's had
                          an active WMD program.  He fucked that up too.
                          But I tend to disbelieve the whole "Chalabi was
                          a spy the whole time!"
                          But I tend to disbelieve the "Chalabi was a spy the
                          whole time!" theory.
                          In any case, please offer an explanation for the
                          big hole in Scenario 1.
2004/6/3 [Politics/Domestic] UID:30564 Activity:high
6/3     http://www.gop.com/kerryopoly/default.asp
        Work safe, but not for the humor impaired leftists.  I'm told it plays
        music but I don't have speakers.
        \_ Wait, so rich is bad? Does that apply to rich Republicans, too?
           \_ Yes.  All rich white people are evil.  Rich non-white people are
              good.
        \_ Y'all wanna stop by http://www.factcheck.org y'hear?
           \_ Holy shit, something from the motd that looks like it might be
              somewhat almost unbiased.  I'll read the articles there and
              be back later.  Kerryopoly: do you think the numbers aren't
              true?  --op
              \_ The gas tax, for one, is complete bullshit, according to
                 http://factcheck.org.
                 \_ I note you only choose to read and repost the ones that
                    support your agenda but ignore when your guy is the liar.
                    \_ Note all you want, twat. The only thing I've posted is
                       the http://factcheck.org link.
                       \_ If you didn't post what I replied to then I wasn't
                          talking to you, was I?  You're not the center of the
                          universe.  Twat?  Childish.
2004/6/3 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:30565 Activity:nil
6/3     Jesus Christ.  The motd is moving backwards and forwards in time.  Is
        this some kind of script war?  I think we might have been better off
        with no controls of any kind.
2004/6/3 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30566 Activity:nil
6/3     Powell: Iraq Will Have No Veto on U.S.-Led Force
        In other words, do what we want you to do, or we will remove you
        by force.
        \_ The US has never granted another power control over our military.
           That would be... stupid.  What's new?  Our men rape Japanese women
           every other years and what happens?  Nothing.  Why aren't you here
           bitching about that and blaming BushCo?
2004/6/3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30567 Activity:insanely high
6/3     Almost every single person I personally know are in California,
        and every single one of them hates Bush. Having this said, how come
        the poll still shows that Bush/Kerry are neck to neck? In another
        word, how come people outside of California like Bush? What did
        Bush do for them?
        \_ Do a google search on: "Pauline Kael" McGovern
        \_ Gah, why bother even asking here?  You're not going to get a
           coherent answer, and even if you do, it will instantly be drowned
           out by a bunch of name calling.  Oh wait, its the motd, maybe you're
           just trolling.
        \_ Move to Orange County.
        \_ I know a lot of people who don't exactly love Bush, but are
           tolerant of him because they really don't like Kerry or other
           Democrats. They live in CA. In the last election a lot of
           people in CA voted for Bush.
           \_ I predict Bush will win California in a landslide!
        \_ troll.  Let's see: I live in the liberal part of a liberal state and
           I don't understand why I don't know any Bush supporters!  Let's see,
           I hate Bush and I hate him loudly and refuse to talk to anyone who
           doesn't hate him and I wonder aloud why I don't know any Bush
           supporters... troll.
                \_ California has a very different economic/social makeup
                   than the rest of the nation. It has been fucked by
                   Bush's friends (Enron) and the little guys here have
                   benefited very little from Bush's administration.
                   Furthermore it receives less % of the share of Federal
                   aide than the other states. If anything, California
                   should at least attempt a Declaration of Causes
                   of Secession
                   \_ CA has received a lesser % of federal money than other
                      states for decades.  This is suddenly Bush's fault?  Did
                      you bitch about that from 1992-2000 and blame that
                      President for it at the time?  Did he do anything for the
                      little guys in CA?  Presidents don't do shit for the
                      little guys, the big states or anyone else.  That isn't
                      their job.  If you want a sugar daddy, go to SF, drop
                      your pants and someone will be along in a minute or two
                      to give you a few bucks.
                      \_ Is this really true? I would like to see some
                         statistics about this. I suspect CA used to get
                         its fair share back in the 70s and has been
                         on a downward trend since then, but I am interested
                         in seeing actual facts.
                   \_ BushCo would love that: military invasion of Cali,
                      followed by suspension of Statehood and negation of
                      those juicy anti-Bush electoral votes.
                      \_ Tinfoil.  Hat.  Nutter.  Prozac.
                         \_ Are you really so fucking stupid to think that
                            post is serious?
                            \_ With MOTD righties, it's sometimes hard to tell.
                               \_ Don't tell me you're still trying.
                      \_ would california be a good place to fight a
                         guerilla war?  like we have mountains, big cities,
                         small towns, farming communities, rivers, deserts,
                         etc.  should be fun.  hey, we may actually have
                         some real WMDs somewhere.
        \_ Our real enemy is not Bush but Bush supporters.
           \_ "Our"?  Who is "us"?  Enemies of the United States?  Pro-Soviet
              trolls who cry for loss of Stalin or maybe China's Mao?  'Enemy'
              is a harsh word.  You turn politics into a death match with
              words like that.  You can't afford to lose a death match.  I'm
              one of the people you declare as an "enemy" but I don't see you
              as such.  I only see you as young and misguided and not earning
              enough to get pissed off when you see your taxes being spent on
              buying votes at the next election which is the best way to kill
              a democracy or republic.  I'm not your enemy.
              \_ No, actually, you are.  I've been tracking you for years now,
                 and I will not give up now that I'm so close, so very, very
                 close.  Your time is coming, Moriarty.
              \_ Coulter and Savage has been calling anyone who disagrees
                 \_ I'm busted!  But you shall not have me before I destroy
                    all of London when the bomb goes off in Old Ben!
              \_ Coulter and Savage have been calling anyone who disagrees
                 with them "traitors" for a long time. Perhaps you should
                 work on muzzling the voices of hate on the right.
                 \_ That's it?  That's the best you've got?  A second rate
                    author and talk show personality and a third rate local
                    radio host?  How about you start at the top of your party,
                    then go to the NAACP, http://moveon.org, Soros, Hillary, Gore,
                    Kennedy, and I guess Kerry doesn't matter.  You can keep
                    Kerry.  He's useless to you.
                    \_ When have any of those people referred to the Republican
                       Party as "the enemy" or traitors? Oh, they haven't.
                       I guess that shoots down your theory about who
                       the haters are. Add Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly
                       and half of Congress to the Republican Hate Machine.
        \_ You and your friends are not a representative statistical sample of
           the population. Beware anecdotal statistics. -emarkp
        \_ I view liberalism (not classical) as a pernicious evil
           engendered by communism and secularism that has
           steadily eroded the foundation of this country.  Maybe this
           explains to you why I consider the GOP the lesser of two
           evils and why I will never ever ever sincerely vote for a Dem.
           And I live in Berkeley.
           \_ I view you as a Berkeley kook.
           \_ What is wrong with secularism?
              \_ Hitler, Mao, Stalin ... were all atheists.  WWII and Cold War
                 were effectively wars of theism vs. atheism.
                 \_ Hitler wasn't an atheist. He just wasn't a Christian.
                    Furthermore we allied ourselves with Stalin who did the
                    main work of defeating Hitler. The cold war was a war of
                    capitalism vs. command economies. But that was just how it
                    was waged; the real cause was the USSR's imperialistic
                    behavior.
                    "An educated man retains the sense of the mysteries of
                    nature, and bows before the unknowable. An uneducated man,
                    on the other hand, runs the risk of going over to atheism
                    (which is a return to the state of the animal) as soon as
                    he perceives that the state, in sheer opportunism, is
                    making use of false ideas in the matter of religion,
                    whilst in other fields it bases everything on pure
                    science."
                    ...
                    "If in the course of 1-2,000 years science arrives at the
                    necessity of renewing its points of view, that will not
                    mean that science is a liar. Science cannot lie, for it's
                    always striving, according to the momentary state of
                    knowledge, to deduce what is true. When it makes a
                    mistake, it does so in good faith. It's Christianity which
                    is the liar; it's in perpetual conflict with itself."
           \_ Quite a few vocal white supremacists live in Berkeley.
2004/6/3 [Health/Women] UID:30568 Activity:nil
6/3     inside scoop of Peterson: the defense is that someone else
        kidnapped her while pregnant, later on to cover their
        tracks, when the baby was born, they dumped the bodies
        at the berkeley marina where the entire world knew
        Peterson was.
        \_ It's just plausible enough to register that reasonable doubt.
        \_ It's also possible that Peterson hired those guys to kidnap her and
           intentionally keep her alive for a while before killing her.
           \_ The odds of getting away with a plot of any sort dwindle rapidly
              as the number of accomplices increases.  Cf. Ben Franklin:
              "Three can keep a secret if two are dead."
           \_ That's so whacky.  He was a shit salesman not the killer from
              some bizarre mystery novel.  "The Shit Salesman did it In The
              Kitchen with a Kitchen Knife".  I win!
        \_ Who really gives a fuck?
           \_ Your fellow sodans, obviously.
2004/6/3 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:30569 Activity:very high
6/3     I notice a lot of foreigners say "Oiii." Is that our equivalent of
        "hey" or "dude"?
        \_ It's spelled "Oy!"
        \_ Do you mean the French for "yes"?
           \_ that would be "oui"
        \_ I believe it's the Japanese.
        \_ Aussies, Brits, and the occasional Kiwi say "Oi." Mel Brooks says
           "Oy."  Japanese punks say "Oiii."  In the first and last, it's like
           our "hey!" but in the second, it's more like "oh, brother."
        \_ I like "aiya!". Even the blacks, hispanics and whites say it
           at the poker card club
           \_ That one gets a lot of international play: aiyaiyai, or aiya,
              either way.
2004/6/3 [Uncategorized] UID:30570 Activity:nil 66%like:30583
6/3     http://www.factcheck.org
        No, really, you should check it out.
2004/6/3 [Uncategorized] UID:30571 Activity:nil
6/3     Fuck you and your censorship.  Restored.  All of it.
2004/6/3 [Uncategorized] UID:30572 Activity:nil
6/3     http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_2.html
        Once we strip the Jews of theur nukes, we can invade again and this
        time we'll kill them all.
        \_ Wow.  The pop-up ad on that page just blew by the Google Pop-up
           Stopper.
2004/6/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:30573 Activity:insanely high
6/3     If California declares independence, and the non-kookoo portion
        of US decides to invade California, how will it attack?  cross the
        desert to take Los Angeles first, then roll up Hwy 5?
        \_ It would take 21 days.  20 days for the rest of the US to stop
           laughing and realise CA was serious and 1 day to retake everything.
        \_ The US is all out of step except CA!
        \_ On a related note, let's say you're drawing a U.S. Diplomacy
           board. HOw would you divvy up NOrth America?
           \_ Red counties and blue counties.
        \_ If pigs fly out my ass, will they have bat wings or feathered ones?
           \_ Bat wings, duh!  Pigs are mammals.
        \_ Take Interstate 80 from Reno to Sacramento.
        \_ I think a lot depends upon how committed to a war the citizenry
           is. Will companies like Boeing and Lockheed with plants in CA
           support CA or the US? Will US soldiers attack Californians?
           What percentage of US soldiers are from CA?
           \_ Let's assume CA has a decent army.  Inferior and outnumbered
              by the US military, but capable of fighting a little.  It's
              mostly a military question, rather than a political one -op
              \_ The only part of CA with significant military is San
                 Diego, so I imagine San Diego goes first and then the
                 defense contractors in SoCal. Less important is Silicon
                 Valley and the navy in SF.
                 \_ ok, let's assume california inherited 1/8th of the
                    US military forces minus anything nukular.
                    \_ That's not fair:  A lot of submarines are based out of
                       San Diego.
                 \_ Another issue is who are CAs allies? Mexico? Japan?
                    \_ I don't think any country would provide military aid.
                       \_ Why not? They did during the Civil War.
                          \_ The South had a chance of winning, and the North
                             was way too busy to fight the other countries.
                             The US could easily lob missiles at any country
                             that help California.
                          \_ link?
                    \_ what a great thread!  How about we assume the forces
                       of nature rise to aid California?  (Pigs with wings of
                       all types...)  What then?
                        \_ Why would the forces of nature rise up to help us?
                           Have you any idea how many H2s are on the road?
                           \_ Good point.  But is it fair to assume they'll
                              bite the tires/tracks of both attackers AND
                              defenders?  And there will probably be more
                              attackers than defenders, so it would be of
                              net benefit to the Californians?
                    \_ assume california has no allies, but neither does the
                       US, and it cannot attack California from Mexico.
        \_ yea, but don't attack LA directly, isolate it, cut off its
           water supply, and wait for it to surrender.
           \_ That would cut off all of SoCal.
              \_ What if we approach this the other way? California goes
                 on the offensive against Oregon, Washington, Nevada, and
                 Arizona to claim water rights. We pretty much own them
                 now anyway.
                 \_ ok, that's interesting.  Let's give California the
                    advantage of a first strike, surprise attack.
                    where would you try to attack and hold?  Of course,
                    you want to control the Sierras for its water and its
                    defensive value, but other parts of Nevada is kind
                    of hard to hold even if you conquer it at first.
                    I am not too familiar with geography of Arizona.
                    As for Oregon, is there any point in attacking it
                    for a defense purposes?
                    \_ CA can't even pass a spending bill on time.  You think
                       CA can launch a first strike?
        \_ But we have ... the Governator!
           \_ But the governator cannot travel back in time with any metal or
              clothing...
        \_ Or look at it another way, how would you set up your defenses
           for California against a US invasion?
           \_ Let's keep it simple.  After we crack the launch codes, we can
              deter with the nuclear weapons stored in CA, and build more.
        \_ Hawiians have talked about secessions for a very very long time.
           In fact, they're still talking about it. They have nothing in
           common with any other state and they're always fucked no matter
           who the president is.
                \_ hawaii's governor is very pro bush
           \_ Convert Pendleton before proceeding.  We stand a much better
              chance with the marines with us than with them against us.
        \_ CA vs. the US: it lasts about 3 weeks.  That's 20 days for the US
           to stop laughing, 1 day to take over.
        \_ Substitute Calif with Taiwan, and U.S. with China.  Now discuss...
           \_ It would help a lot if the PRC supplies weapons to California,
              and it has good reasons to, since there are so many Chinese in
              California.
           \_ Question for the anti-Taiwan independence crowd.  Didn't China
              cede Taiwan to Japan in the treaty of Shimonoseki?  -- ilyas
              \_ China tried ceding Taiwan, but Taiwan declared indepen-
                 dence before the Japanese invaded Taiwan, then Japan
                 ceded Taiwan back to China after WWII.  Weird.  That's
                 why Taiwan should declare independence.  We have
                 superior US made weapons that will kick China arse.
                 Some association of US companies in Taiwan put out
                 an advertisement in some Taiwan newspaper last weekend
                 warning Taiwan government to negotiate direct
                 shipping, flight, etc. to PRC, or US companies will all
                 be dumping Taiwan companies soon.  Those traitors!
                 be dumping Taiwan soon.  Those traitors!
                 Taiwan will soon be spending another US$18 billion to
                 buy weapons.  Greedy Americans overcharges Taiwan by
                 an arm and a leg for the weapons since no one else
                 sells to Taiwan.  Those bastards!  But hey, those
                 are some cool toys to play with.  I was personally
                 aboard one of the Knox class destroyers when it was down
                 in Long Beach during handover training after it was
                 bought by Taiwan.  That was one outdated warship.
                 We need a few Aegis boats instead.  Please sell us
                 a few.  PRC commies recently been unofficially
                 publishing list of Taiwan actresses and singers and
                 stars who are pro-independence.  Heard that president
                 Ah Bian recently had trouble inviting any of these
                 money grubbing actresses and singers and stars to
                 his functions.  Those PRC commie bastard bullies!
              \_ yea but article 4 of the Treaty of Peace between China
                 and Japan states that:
                        It is recognised that all treaties, conventions,
                        and agreements concluded before 9 December 1941
                        between Japan and China have become null and
                        void as a consequence of the war.
2004/6/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30574 Activity:nil
6/3     HAHAHAHA.  Pot.  Kettle.  Black.  personified:
        http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-06-03-chalabi-tenet_x.htm
        Best quote:  Chalabi also accused Tenet of providing "erroneous
        information about weapons of mass destruction to President Bush,
        which caused the government much embarrassment at the United States
        and his own country."
        \_ How dare he pass on my fairy tales to the president. -AHC
2004/6/3 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30575 Activity:high
6/3     Awesome.
        link:csua.org/u/7kx (Toles cartoon from WaPo)
        \_ Saddam's Iraq was easy to defeat with fewer casualties than Gulf
           War I, and the Americans were greeted as liberators.  Chalabi says
           that the U.S. should have transitioned power faster.  But apparently
           the Americans wore out their welcome.
        \_ That was hilarious.  Thank you.
2004/6/3 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:30576 Activity:high
6/3     This is pretty cool, I especially like the 2nd guy's answer.  No
        foreigners!
        http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=popvox&id=484
        Oh yeah, and from the same page, but creepy as only Japan can be.
        http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=popvox&id=485
        \_ No wonder so many gaijin flock to Japan to teach English.
           \_ What's truly sad is that Christopher Goto almost certainly has
              a girlfriend.
              \_ Who?
                 \_ Obviously you didn't open the link.
                    \_ I POSTED the link.  I just didn't pay that much
                       attention tothe fat guy's name.
2004/6/3 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30577 Activity:high
6/3     Ok, now that various US leaders are blaming the CIA for mis-information,
        next time someone like Powell goes to the UN to announce, "Hey! our CIA
        found this out ...", will the leaders of other nations just roll on the
        floor laughing, "Are you sure it wasn't yomama who told you about it?"?
        huh huh.
        \_ Fuck this, we invaded Iraq based on false information the BushCo
           wanted from the CIA, and now he steps down, everything is going to
           be ok?  Fuck BushCo.
        \_ I love this blame game!  So who is next?
           \_ Rummy!  Let's make Powell into both the Secretary of State
              AND Defense.
              \_ I've got a better idea.  Let's just dissolve all three branches
                 of government and declare Bush to be Divine King descended
                 from Jesus Christ himself.  Cheney and Rummy can hold court
                 and be the real power behind the throne, and Rove can be
                 the court jester to distract everyone.  Everything will
                 be so much simpler that way.
        \_ Have you frothers got it out of your system yet?
2004/6/3-4 [Consumer/Camera] UID:30578 Activity:nil
6/3     Digital Rebel Hacks:
        http://www.bahneman.com/liem/photos/tricks/digital-rebel-tricks.html
        \_ It runs Datalight ROM-DOS?  Wow!
2004/6/3-4 [Health/Women] UID:30579 Activity:very high
6/3     I just read the Washingtonienne blog in its entirety. I know no
        women as shallow, petty and money/gift-driven as Ms. Cutler. She
        kind of fufils my worst nightmares about modern young women of a certain
        kind and it sounds like she knows many others like her. Is this a Wash.
        D.C. thing? -- ulysses
        \_ Its because she works for a Republican.
        \_ I don't know any women like her, but I know a whole bunch like
           Wonkette (who I used to work with at Wired) -ausman
        \_ ann cox.  I read a hilarious editorial last week in the
                ny post blaming her for all of society's evils.  some
                people have no sense of humor
        \_ Who?
2004/6/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:30580 Activity:nil
6/3     Here's 184,000 troops that don't need to be where they are.
        http://tinyurl.com/26k96 (news.yahoo.com)
2004/6/3-4 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:30581 Activity:high
6/3     http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20040603/6255200s.htm
        "The good men are all married," writer Junko Sakai says. "Those left
        behind are all nerds or without jobs or violent or not nice-looking."
        Ahem.
        \_ http://www.keithwatanabe.net (I rest my case.)
        \_ that's good, at least there's an 'or' between 'nerds' and 'jobs'.
        \_ "She says Japanese men sometimes propose to women with lines like:
            'I want you to cook miso soup for me the rest of my life.'"
           This is a _very_ traditional way to ask a woman to marry you. The
           words themselves are virtually meaningless now.  I was skeptical
           of the article to begin with, but this overt lack of cultural
           context cinches it.
           \_ cool!  I will try that line on the next hot japanese babe I meet.
           \_ So what exactly do you disagree with in the article?
              \_ She misses the point that the good women are all married, too.
                 If you're 30+ and not married, you're not a good prospect for
                 marriage.
                 \_ So not only are the leftover men not good prospects, but
                    the leftover women aren't either?
                    \_ Correct.  All the leftovers get to live angst ridden
                       lives like Sex in the City and suffer one bad attempt
                       at having a relationship after another because they're
                       undeserving of anything better and wouldn't know it if
                       they had better anyway.  That's what makes them left-
                       overs and poor prospects.  It's self-fulfilling.
2004/6/3 [Uncategorized] UID:30582 Activity:nil
6/3     http://www.bugmenot.com
2004/6/3 [Uncategorized] UID:30583 Activity:nil 66%like:30570
6/3     http://www.fatcheck.org
        No, really, you should check it out.
        \_ No, really, what's so great about it?
2004/6/3-4 [Science/Biology, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30584 Activity:high
6/3     http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2284783.stm
        Hitler would have killed himself after seeing this report.
        \_ On of the princes of Denmark is married to an asian...
           \_ Yes, we Danes have always been advanced in choosing mates for
              personality, looks, and intelligence.  It's what's kept us
              beautiful all these centuries.  Oh, and helped spread our
              seed all over the world.
                \_ Teutonic knight, +4 hitpoint +4 armor +1 range +1 maneuver
                   \_ Those were Germans.
              \_ nah, in this case it's the asians who are spreading their
                 genes to far flung corners of the world.
2004/6/3-4 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:30585 Activity:high
6/3     What kind of encryption scheme is used in the German Enigma Machine?
        Is it symmetrical encryption? Why was it so hard to crack in the 40s?
        \_ I believe it was a poly-alphabetic cypher that changed on each
           letter (therefore, yes it was symmetric).  So, the first
           letter in a mesage would use one cypher, the next would use
           another. The standard machine used 3 wheels, so the opertator
           would set the 3 wheels to that day's setting, and type in
           either the message or the cypher-text.  Each would produce the
           other.  This kind of message is easy to break with a computer,
           and lots of example messages, but I wouldn't want to work it
           out on a sheet of paper.  Of course the setting changed
           (daily?) frequently, and when the settings changed, you got
           almost a whole new encryption problem.  There are LOTS of pages
           on this, and example java applets.  Google.
           \_ And if you like novelisations, Neal Stephenson's _Cryptonomicon_
              and Robert Harris' _Enigma_ cover both the math and the history
              quite nicely.
           \_ Actually, the German field soldiers tended to set them (there
              were more wheels later on) to swear words, so there was
              actually a decent message depth. -chialea
           \_ They had plenty of sample messages when nearly every unit that
              had one all sent happy birthday messages to hitler.
           \_ interesting weakness- the rotors were hard-wired- so for a given
              position the mapping of one letter was reversible.  Say the code
              key was XXX and you typed A and got a Z... if you had typed a Z
              you would also get a A.  For the rotors in that position.  Ask
             chialea for how useful that actually would be.     -brain
        \_ Applet http://www.ugrad.cs.jhu.edu/~russell/classes/enigma
2004/6/3-4 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/Military] UID:30586 Activity:very high
6/3     How many Panzers can the M1 Abram take out? How many ME109s can the
        F22 raptor take out? Just want to see how much we have advanced in
        the past 60 years...
        \_ F22 will take out as many as it is possible to take out
           with the amount of missiles it can carry, then go back to
           its home base unharmed, refuel, rearm, repeat.. For that
           matter, an F16 would probably do the same, and any older
           generation fighter armed with missiles and radars.
           \_ Actually, I've only heard one story of a prop plane
              successfully taking out at jet after WWII.  Something about
              a patrol plane in 'nam where he strapped a missle to his
              landing gear, and used it to shoot down a MiG that had been
              harrassing him.
        \_ M1a3 vs panzers: all of them until it runs out of shells.  The
           panzer can't penetrate the M1's hull at any reasonable range.
           F22 vs ME109: all of them until the F22 runs out of ammo.  The
           ME109 can't see it, can't catch it, can't target it, and will go
           down in flames while the F22 is still miles away.
           \_ Furthermore, on the tank front, a lot of people don't
              realize that WWII tanks couldn't shoot with any accuracy
              while moving, and would have a pretty hard time hitting a
              moving target.  An M1a3, on the other hand, can hit a rat
              from a mile away while going 60mph.  So even if the pazers
              got close enough, they'd still be toast.
           \_ This poster is just right.  Recall the two wars in Iraq.
              They conclusively demonstrated that the side with the
              better weapons, not the side with more, will win in open
              warfare.  Sadly, our gov't is buying more weapons rather
              than investing in next-generation better weapons.  Consider
              a nation with effective battlefield lasers.  Aircraft will
              suddenly have to fly below the horizon or they'll be shot
              down at the speed of light.  Same with missiles.  Shells.
              Would you rather it be us with the lasers first, or China?
              Write your congressperson.
              \_ The US Navy is investing heavily in laser platforms for ships.
                 China has a long way to go to catch up to the US, I would say
                 20 years would be enough if the US stood still.  America
                 learned the "R&D >>> production" lesson in WWII, when the
                 Tigers were pulling the "kill all Shermans until out of ammo"
                 trick on the Americans.  The flip side of the coin is the
                 Russians, who lost 3 tanks for every 2 german tanks, but
                 were outproducing the Germans 10 to 1. -- ilyas
              \_ The U.S. wants anti-cruise-missile tech.  Whether it's laser
                 or not, we don't care, as long as it works.  Heck, if we
                 could zap Osama from a Predator, I'm sure the military
                 guys would love that too.
              \_ Training and professionalism also played a critical role.
                 T-72s and Mig-29s that Iraq possessed were considered to
                 be quiet formidable tanks and fighter planes respectively
                 when operated by well-trained crews (granted, most of Iraqi
                 weapons were much older than that). I read somewhere that
                 during the Iran-Iraq war the troops on both sides did no make
                 an effective use of the technology that they posessed. For
                 example, the Iraqis didn't use the advanced sights/targeting
                 on their Soviet-made tanks, reducing their effectiveness to
                 WWII era.  Also, both sides tended to hole up their tanks and
                 use them as individual artilery pieces.
        \_ Why do I feel like the Command & Conquer / Rise of Nations /
           Empire Earth forum has suddenly moved here?
           \_ Paradox forums >> all.  Those guys know their history. -- ilyas
        \_ Tank vs tank is measure of RHA.
2004/6/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30587 Activity:very high
6/3     http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/2606171
        Yet another Democrat beltway insider voting for Bush.
        \_ This guy is a shill not a Democrat.  At the bottom of the
           article there is a note saying the author is a member of the
           American Enterprise Institute (AEI).  Take a look at the AEI
           mission statement (http://www.aei.org/about/filter.all/default.asp
        \_ Some of my friends who are otherwise Democrats found themselves
           sitting there on September 12 thinking pretty much the same thing.
           They deplore what Bush has done to the environment, the economy,
           and to our credibility, but they're firmly behind him when it
           comes to striking a strong blow against the perceived source of
           terror.  Some of them were sated after Bush took out the Taliban,
           but some of them remained staunch supporters of the invasion of
           Iraq.  I think they were swayed because it felt good to be active,
           to strike a blow, to be on the offensive rather than on the
           defensive.  Most of them have since come to the conclusion that
           the whole thing has been mishandled, but there's still a nagging
           feeling in the back of their heads that that a policy of
           pre-emption against baddies is all right.  I'm not a Dem, a
           Repub, or a Green.  I'm a social progressive, and there is no
           party that represents my viewpoint. I supported the campaign
           against the Taliban, I support the effort to root out and destroy
           Al Qaeda, and I still opposed the invasion of Iraq on the basis
           of WMDs, and I think the handling of the aftermath of the invasion
           is a black eye on America. Where am I going with this? I don't
           know, but I'm tired of the labels.  They don't mean anything. It's
           the issues you care about that make up your mind when the election
           comes.
           \_ Look you dimwit, how many times does this have to be pounded
              home before you get it?   Iraq wasn't a threat to us.
              Afghanistan was justified, and the world was behind us.
              Iraq was and is a huge mistake and a terrible mess.  Just
              because striking a blow makes you feel better, doesn't mean
              it was the right blow to strike OR that it helped in any way.
              \_ Hello, asshole, I agree with your second, third, and fourth
                 sentences, and I think the general principle of your fifth
                 sentence is spot on.  What I'm pointing out is that quite
                 a few people who would normally be called Dems were
                 prepared (before Abu Graib and thee mounting US losses) to
                 keep W in office just to feel safe.  You need to understand
                 that this phenomenom exists, despite your (and my)
                 understanding that the root reasoning behind it is flawed.
                 Well, that, and you really need to stop being a knee-jerk
                 asshole.
                 \_ To deny Iraq, along with Iran, was the largest state
                    sponsor of terror is patently absurd.  Where did
                    the fugitive bomber of WTC 1 live?  Where did Abu Abbas
                    live?  Where did Abu Nidal live?  Saddam DID have
                    contacts with Al Qaeda.  On and on...
                    \- Do you support "taking out" Syria, Iran, Libya and
                       Pakistan? Can you explain why they are different?
                       Also, can you explain why the US is investing in
                       Iraqi reconstruction and lobbying to have some of
                       their loans forgiven, if "they had it coming"?
                       Do you think Spain should attack Morocco? Any thoughts
                       on North Korea?
                        \_ sicko, the saddam regime had it coming, not the
                        iraqi people. ditto for n koreans
2004/6/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:30588 Activity:high
6/3     I'm not sure which is better, the part about Connerly being part-black,
        CNN's Rhetorical Arsenal, or The Kerry Echo chamber.  Anyway, this is
        how the left looks to the right every day:
        http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110005163
        Oh yeah, there's also some nice polling numbers and a link to the
        Iowa Electronic Markets so you can put your money where your mouth is
        and buy contracts betting that Kerry will win.
        \_ See, why you gotta hate?  I'd rather read Joe Bob Briggs:
           http://www.joebobbriggs.com  At least he's got style.
2004/6/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:30589 Activity:high
6/3     http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=542&u=/ap/20040603/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/rumsfeld_asia_2&printer=1
        There's 187,000 available troops with no draft.
        \_ What part about "we cannot keep our troops in combat zones
           year after year without degrading their effectiveness" don't
           you understand?
2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:June:03 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>